Hey folks, I missed discussing the lack of need on that restrictor bar. It's not needed. It's only recommended if, after your chair setup looks like the one in the photo, where the mount was the farthest aft in relation to your chair. If so, the additional leverage at that configuration has the potential of damaging the mount or chair. Skil and I didn't need it.
This is a cracking presentation chaps. Clean, structured, clean, tidy, clean, informative... did I mention clean! Tankie's review are great but my god! The man needs a house keeper!
I'm just happy winwing put the twist grip in the right spot. I own a lot of virpil gear and love it and their collective was going to be an auto-buy from me, but as a former real life helicopter pilot I was so disappointed that they put their twist grip on their base instead of the grip which forced it it be halfway down the collective arm effectively making it useless...
Lovely work guys. It’s worth noting that real helicopters do have a friction lock on the collective, and it’s to hold it down!! You turn off the friction totally to fly! Helicopters have symmetrical blades so lift is always through the 1/4 chord point. There is no up or down forces and it should move smoothly and not fall down. Some counter weight or spring support may be a better idea? My real flying is very limited to an hour on a S300 but it was good fun and hovering and transitions were easy!
10:32 "Collective Brake - Assign Altitude Lever" refers to a single input. It's hard to see in this picture but it's a lever on the underside of the throttle that isn't replicated by the Winwing. It's primarily used to tell the Ka-50's autopilot to hold your current altitude. The twist throttle on the Winwing seems to be there out of consideration for the throttle position for other helicopters. The collective is still referred to as the collective.
Stiction Fix: Some of the other reviewers complained about an initial stickiness or stiction in raising and lowering the collective. Here's the fix. "A friction system, just like new brakes requires a "wearing in" process. Both parts have microscopic peaks and valleys that should be worn down progressively until both surfaces have maximum level-contact throughout the range of travel. To do so, start with light friction and move the collective up and down repeatedly. Slowly increase the friction until things are smooth enough to suit the required tension without binding." I'm updating this comment because one self-proclaimed expert has informed people to add nyogel to the friction system. If you follow that advice, there is a high probability that you'll end up stripping the aluminum threads from the steal set-screw, rendering your collective useless. I love gamers, everyone with a keyboard is an expert.
+GrimReapersAtomic *Sadly, both WinWinG® and VIRPIL® neglected the "Clutch" grip on their respective collective arms.* OKB Nikolaija Il'ycha Kamova (RUS) specified a handgrip on the collective arm as an arm-brake release on the Engineering Bureau's coaxial-rotor models (including but not limited to the Ka-25/27/28/31/32/40/62/126/226 parallel-seat utility birds, -50 attack helo, and -52 attack/observation helo).
Many thanks to you both for your presentations , in this video ,,you have helped me too decide how I wish to go forward in purchasing a "collective control" for Helo flying !!! A well thought and presented Video !!! Greets from an Old soldier of the Cold war living in Germany ;)
Thanks guys helped me to buy one & as you say I can't fly Helis without any more . Just a natural way to fly up & down . Only problem is winwing have discontinued this now . Hope for all the others out they add a new collective to the products .
The cons I see: 1) No friction lock on the throttle 2) No counterweight to prevent the thing from dropping unless you tighten the friction hard enough (In Germany we say "nach fest kommt ab") 3) I can only imagine the extra buttons on the bottom side might be hard to reach from a normal grip Just a personal one: The price. But that's just me crying in an empty wallet. The quality seems to be good and I love how they thought of things like where the second cable goes or the nut on the cable connector inside the grip extension. The thing probably is worth that cash if you have a complete fixed wing setup already and want to upgrade with a collective. For someone who needs to get a stick and pedals as well this is going to be the most expensive part easily.
I agree on the friction lock only because I face-planted in the gazelle when I accidentally rolled off the throttle. I disagree on the counterweight, because on everything I flew, there was lots of up-travel needed before enough lift was created to get airborne. I had mine too tight. Once I loosened it as Skil described and the stiffness was lessened it felt much smoother, especially during transition from forward flight to hover. Yes, it's a very expensive hobby. But less than motorcycles, boats, and other hobby stuff.
Regarding the software PC configuration, can I leave my TM Warthog throttle hooked up while I use a Winwing collective? It would be nice not to unhook stuff when swapping between helos and jets in DCS.
Thank you for the video comment. Learning new software in a rush wasn't ideal. Mistakes were made. I'm pretty sure it's the lowest priced collective available atm, but I could be wrong.
How hard would it be to switch back and forth between this and plane throttles? I'm thinking probably pretty tough given you have to swap out the one throttle mount or whatever. Maybe leave that one installed and use the other throttle for both plane engines? Dunno...think there's a simple way to go back and forth without completely undoing and redoing the whole thing?
If you bought the collective along with the Orion throttle base, it'd likely take you about 4-6 minutes to swap them out. There's no quick disconnect, so you'd have to unscrew/swap/rescrew the throttle-plugged parts.
@@rmp5s Yup, that time estimate would include unplugging the Orion base first, do the swap, plug it back in, wait for the Windows pings to indicate the devices have re-registered as active, before your restart DCS.
Would love to own one. Yet it's almost impossible to get one in Europe. Shipping it to Europe makes it way to expensive : postage fees, custom fees, taxes
I am trying to get a ka50 collective to finish my project. I only fly helicopters. Winning is out of stock for 7 months now, I have already bought winning pedals stick and base so I am commited. Can you help? It would be greatle appreciared.😎🇨🇦
So I bough the k50 stick, but when trying to setup in DCS. It doesn’t work fine. The collective is not been recognized for the up or down motion. Also if I assign an axel, the DCS doesn’t recognize idle or full collective up. Any idea how I can fix this problem Cap?
Is there any advantage to using the ka50 base rather than the f18 one? I mainly fly helos so want the best setup for that, but I'd prefer to get the fa18 base if there is no disadvantage so I can swap the grips and use it as a throttle when needed. Btw how long does it take to switch the grips? Thanks
I got my ww collective setup done. However, I can't get the Gemini RxRy to reach 65535 or 0 (min and max axis) in SimAppPro after calibration. This has resulted to inadequate lift/power in DCS, black shark can't take off. May I ask for some guidance?
Hi Steven, the metal mounting block reduces the range of movement at each end of its travel. You need to calibrate it after you've assembled it. Cycle the range about 3 times should do it.
@@SmoocheeWallace I KNOW!!! I would have loved that too, but I'm told it is not going to happen.I can tell you that I've been able to bind everything that's needed on the collective and the new F-16EX stick. I had buttons left over.
What can I say, I wasnt sure about the look of the mechanism. However, once I used it I found that the collective moves up and down and feels very good. The choice is always yours, the more gear/manufacturers that put their product in the ring gives us all more choice, which can only be a good thing.
Can we get a review 6months down the road please? I have a Winwing Orion HOTAS. The ORION is complete shit. Four months after buying it the USB connection is pushed out of the housing , the Button 14 (4 toggle switch )has been replaced twice and the throttle itself is losing it's friction.
Excellent video. BUT There is one thing annoying me which has nothing to do with the hardware you are showing. You are not the only one to do that in DCS from what I saw. As an helicopter pilot in the real life myself, I don't get why you lift the gear while in the ground effect. I have been trained to deal with failures during landing or take off on 1 engine heli or 2 engines heli... And lifting the gear in the ground effect is like putting a round in a gun pistol pointed on your head. In case of emergency or engine failure IGE, what do you do ? You crash ? You could have just landed with your gear down... Just saying. Cheers boys
So 500-700USD and I’ve got to assemble it myself? I’ll stick to my thrustmaster for now. Maybe if the price drops a few hundred bucks I’d consider this.
In the end, it's the consumer who decides to buy anything they think is useful or perceive it's necessary. UA-cam is making businessmen out of everybody who uploads vids. Look at angryjoe show. It was grassroots but now it serves masters. Boring at best.
I don't hate their videos, they've become better and more useful as the years have passed but, yeah, making their WinWing "review" videos the only videos they publish without a WinWing ad at the front is a bad look. Does more harm than good, I think. Looks like something shifty is going on.
@@AdmiralQuality if you bought a a magazine that had ads for coke and then an article about why coke is better than Pepsi, you probably wouldn’t trust anything they had to say.
Hey folks, I missed discussing the lack of need on that restrictor bar. It's not needed. It's only recommended if, after your chair setup looks like the one in the photo, where the mount was the farthest aft in relation to your chair. If so, the additional leverage at that configuration has the potential of damaging the mount or chair. Skil and I didn't need it.
This is a cracking presentation chaps. Clean, structured, clean, tidy, clean, informative... did I mention clean! Tankie's review are great but my god! The man needs a house keeper!
I think they should have done one for the AH-64.
Probably will do TBH
I totally agree once you try collective you can't go back, it feels natural and makes sense to you when you fly the helicopter.
Thanks guys!
Going to add this to my collection with the f-16 throttle when that’s released
Next month fingers crossed.
Really good info. Have to look into this before Apache comes out.
I'm just happy winwing put the twist grip in the right spot. I own a lot of virpil gear and love it and their collective was going to be an auto-buy from me, but as a former real life helicopter pilot I was so disappointed that they put their twist grip on their base instead of the grip which forced it it be halfway down the collective arm effectively making it useless...
Why do you think they did that? Strange choice!
Same predicament I’m in as well which is why I’m searching around for a different collective mixed with virpil controls.
Lovely work guys. It’s worth noting that real helicopters do have a friction lock on the collective, and it’s to hold it down!! You turn off the friction totally to fly! Helicopters have symmetrical blades so lift is always through the 1/4 chord point. There is no up or down forces and it should move smoothly and not fall down. Some counter weight or spring support may be a better idea? My real flying is very limited to an hour on a S300 but it was good fun and hovering and transitions were easy!
Looks super well built 👍
Great video. I bought one for my sim pit based off this review. Thank you.
You are welcome Sean
Now........If only I could afford it. Wanted one since I first saw it.
It's a pity that companies cannot be bothered to make a nice assembly video like this. Kudos for doing such a nice job.
10:32 "Collective Brake - Assign Altitude Lever" refers to a single input. It's hard to see in this picture but it's a lever on the underside of the throttle that isn't replicated by the Winwing. It's primarily used to tell the Ka-50's autopilot to hold your current altitude. The twist throttle on the Winwing seems to be there out of consideration for the throttle position for other helicopters. The collective is still referred to as the collective.
Just bought a jet seat, it's insane for Helos !
Stiction Fix: Some of the other reviewers complained about an initial stickiness or stiction in raising and lowering the collective. Here's the fix. "A friction system, just like new brakes requires a "wearing in" process. Both parts have microscopic peaks and valleys that should be worn down progressively until both surfaces have maximum level-contact throughout the range of travel. To do so, start with light friction and move the collective up and down repeatedly. Slowly increase the friction until things are smooth enough to suit the required tension without binding." I'm updating this comment because one self-proclaimed expert has informed people to add nyogel to the friction system. If you follow that advice, there is a high probability that you'll end up stripping the aluminum threads from the steal set-screw, rendering your collective useless. I love gamers, everyone with a keyboard is an expert.
+GrimReapersAtomic *Sadly, both WinWinG® and VIRPIL® neglected the "Clutch" grip on their respective collective arms.* OKB Nikolaija Il'ycha Kamova (RUS) specified a handgrip on the collective arm as an arm-brake release on the Engineering Bureau's coaxial-rotor models (including but not limited to the Ka-25/27/28/31/32/40/62/126/226 parallel-seat utility birds, -50 attack helo, and -52 attack/observation helo).
Many thanks to you both for your presentations , in this video ,,you have helped me too decide how I wish to go forward in purchasing a "collective control" for Helo flying !!!
A well thought and presented Video !!! Greets from an Old soldier of the Cold war living in Germany ;)
Thank you, glad we could help.
Thanks guys helped me to buy one & as you say I can't fly Helis without any more . Just a natural way to fly up & down . Only problem is winwing have discontinued this now . Hope for all the others out they add a new collective to the products .
WINWING vs. Virpil , what do you thing as far as collectives and cyclics go?
The cons I see:
1) No friction lock on the throttle
2) No counterweight to prevent the thing from dropping unless you tighten the friction hard enough (In Germany we say "nach fest kommt ab")
3) I can only imagine the extra buttons on the bottom side might be hard to reach from a normal grip
Just a personal one: The price. But that's just me crying in an empty wallet. The quality seems to be good and I love how they thought of things like where the second cable goes or the nut on the cable connector inside the grip extension. The thing probably is worth that cash if you have a complete fixed wing setup already and want to upgrade with a collective. For someone who needs to get a stick and pedals as well this is going to be the most expensive part easily.
I agree on the friction lock only because I face-planted in the gazelle when I accidentally rolled off the throttle. I disagree on the counterweight, because on everything I flew, there was lots of up-travel needed before enough lift was created to get airborne. I had mine too tight. Once I loosened it as Skil described and the stiffness was lessened it felt much smoother, especially during transition from forward flight to hover. Yes, it's a very expensive hobby. But less than motorcycles, boats, and other hobby stuff.
Excellent... now to save some pennies!
Regarding the software PC configuration, can I leave my TM Warthog throttle hooked up while I use a Winwing collective? It would be nice not to unhook stuff when swapping between helos and jets in DCS.
It shouldn't be a problem. You'd just have to make sure you didn't have any of the controls double bound in game.
Damn, I wish I could afford this cool stuff
Will the base plate fit the virpil chair mount?
great video! I was surprise by the price of the base, its pretty low. But i feel like the Ka50 throttle is pricey.
Thank you for the video comment. Learning new software in a rush wasn't ideal. Mistakes were made. I'm pretty sure it's the lowest priced collective available atm, but I could be wrong.
Nice
My WW Collective Base has sticktion.. sad..
How hard would it be to switch back and forth between this and plane throttles? I'm thinking probably pretty tough given you have to swap out the one throttle mount or whatever. Maybe leave that one installed and use the other throttle for both plane engines? Dunno...think there's a simple way to go back and forth without completely undoing and redoing the whole thing?
If you bought the collective along with the Orion throttle base, it'd likely take you about 4-6 minutes to swap them out. There's no quick disconnect, so you'd have to unscrew/swap/rescrew the throttle-plugged parts.
@@wildbillkelso2083 Which isn't TOO bad...
@@rmp5s Yup, that time estimate would include unplugging the Orion base first, do the swap, plug it back in, wait for the Windows pings to indicate the devices have re-registered as active, before your restart DCS.
@@wildbillkelso2083 Not bad at all!
Would love to own one. Yet it's almost impossible to get one in Europe. Shipping it to Europe makes it way to expensive : postage fees, custom fees, taxes
I am trying to get a ka50 collective to finish my project. I only fly helicopters. Winning is out of stock for 7 months now, I have already bought winning pedals stick and base so I am commited. Can you help? It would be greatle appreciared.😎🇨🇦
OK now I want a friction stick that doesn't spring back to the neutral position whenever I let go of it.
So I bough the k50 stick, but when trying to setup in DCS. It doesn’t work fine. The collective is not been recognized for the up or down motion. Also if I assign an axel, the DCS doesn’t recognize idle or full collective up.
Any idea how I can fix this problem Cap?
Is there any advantage to using the ka50 base rather than the f18 one? I mainly fly helos so want the best setup for that, but I'd prefer to get the fa18 base if there is no disadvantage so I can swap the grips and use it as a throttle when needed.
Btw how long does it take to switch the grips? Thanks
I got my ww collective setup done. However, I can't get the Gemini RxRy to reach 65535 or 0 (min and max axis) in SimAppPro after calibration. This has resulted to inadequate lift/power in DCS, black shark can't take off. May I ask for some guidance?
Hi Steven, the metal mounting block reduces the range of movement at each end of its travel. You need to calibrate it after you've assembled it. Cycle the range about 3 times should do it.
does anyone know if there are any videos showing the setup using this with the orion base? It says they are compatible.
I haven't seen one. It is the exact same component on both throttles and will assemble the same way.
@@wildbillkelso2083 really hoping for an Apache style collective
@@SmoocheeWallace I KNOW!!! I would have loved that too, but I'm told it is not going to happen.I can tell you that I've been able to bind everything that's needed on the collective and the new F-16EX stick. I had buttons left over.
Where can you buy?, I looked on website, not even on it??
Hey Matt, if you click on the SHOW MORE links above you should find the US and China store links. Hope this helps.
This isn't how collective moves IRL. Would prefer Virpil's mechanism.🤔
What can I say, I wasnt sure about the look of the mechanism. However, once I used it I found that the collective moves up and down and feels very good. The choice is always yours, the more gear/manufacturers that put their product in the ring gives us all more choice, which can only be a good thing.
How is this different? It looks the same as far as I can see.
@@jimmehjiimmeehh9748 The collective stick wasn’t aligned with the pivot.
I almost ordered an Winwing, but that shipping to the US.
Yeh it's a real shame about shipping :( Need a US outlet.
For those interested, Winwing is no longer making these unfortunately.
Can we get a review 6months down the road please? I have a Winwing Orion HOTAS. The ORION is complete shit. Four months after buying it the USB connection is pushed out of the housing , the Button 14 (4 toggle switch )has been replaced twice and the throttle itself is losing it's friction.
Wilco
Doooope!!!
ey i've got a KA50 watch
wow!
Excellent video. BUT There is one thing annoying me which has nothing to do with the hardware you are showing. You are not the only one to do that in DCS from what I saw. As an helicopter pilot in the real life myself, I don't get why you lift the gear while in the ground effect. I have been trained to deal with failures during landing or take off on 1 engine heli or 2 engines heli... And lifting the gear in the ground effect is like putting a round in a gun pistol pointed on your head. In case of emergency or engine failure IGE, what do you do ? You crash ? You could have just landed with your gear down... Just saying.
Cheers boys
Good to know. I will do so after and before transition in the future. Thank you,
God i wish this was compatible with Xbox
So 500-700USD and I’ve got to assemble it myself? I’ll stick to my thrustmaster for now. Maybe if the price drops a few hundred bucks I’d consider this.
F 16 Morocco
Winwing is a CHINESE company.
Ok, and?
@@emmettmartin2639 which means it's 'made in China' crap.
@@robertlee6529 not everything made in china is crap buddy.
@@robertlee6529 it’s a video game controller who cares what country it’s from
You realize winwing is one of the best sim gear manufacturers out there in the mid-high end range, Right?
In the end, it's the consumer who decides to buy anything they think is useful or perceive it's necessary. UA-cam is making businessmen out of everybody who uploads vids. Look at angryjoe show. It was grassroots but now it serves masters. Boring at best.
Hey guys. Hate your videos. Whatever you do you. But just dropping by to share my disgust that you “review” a product that endorses your channel.
I don't hate their videos, they've become better and more useful as the years have passed but, yeah, making their WinWing "review" videos the only videos they publish without a WinWing ad at the front is a bad look. Does more harm than good, I think. Looks like something shifty is going on.
@@AdmiralQuality if you bought a a magazine that had ads for coke and then an article about why coke is better than Pepsi, you probably wouldn’t trust anything they had to say.
@@Fred-rv2tu I know, I'm agreeing with you. It's a bad look.
Your comment just helped this channel.
@@AdmiralQuality I know, my response was poorly phrased. I was just reiterating, not trying to convince you. 👍