DF Direct: CRT Displays - Was LCD A Big Mistake For Gaming?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 гру 2019
- John and Alex together for a new DF Direct! In this instalment, the duo assess their experiences in gaming with a CRT display - and appreciate the majesty of the Sony GDM-FW900. Do we really need 4K? Did gaming move in the wrong direction in the transition to today's fixed-pixel flat panel displays?
Subscribe for more Digital Foundry: bit.ly/DFSubscribe
Join the DF Patreon, support the team more directly and get pristine quality video downloads: www.digitalfoundry.net - Ігри
Can we get some respect in the chat for whoever managed to convince a camera to film that CRT screen at a ton of different refresh rates with no flicker.
I'm not sure how it's done but from what I understand it's not that hard to do if you have the right type of camera.
Some cameras actually have a function where you can tune the shutter to sync up with the CRT
@@Reecetafarian Adjust the iso of your camera (every mobile phone can do this) to the refresh rate of the monitor (ISO 60 if you are playing 60hz) and u can take vids and photos without the flickering.
ISO have nothing to do with refresh rate. You need to set the shutter speed to 60 for 60Hz. LGR has good video about recording CRT monitors
I mean in this video we see some footage of up to 120hz so I'm just saying they did a good job, its not magic or anything just deserves a good thumbs up.
Is that a plane? Is that a bird?
No that's the prices of CRTs skyrocketing!
When I bought my CRT monitor 2 months ago the DP-VGA adaper was like 66% of the cost of the monitor. In total spent ~$24 on both.
Shit I've got 4 1600*1200 120hz capable boxes sitting in my closet, I've been waiting for this!
@PADAWAN that russian ebay guy also wants $1k for shipping xD
feeling good that im reading this on a DELL P1130
you wanna make a few bucks off of stuff you've had taking up space for years, fine. but don't be that guy that asks for 1000% of a reasonable value. and for the love of crts, please pack if properly. there should be a protective "cover" (I think a piece of cardboard holding a few layers of paper towel taped on using masking tape would work) on the front and the shipping box should have at least 6 inches of padding on each side
This is exactly what I was preaching in a hardware forum 10 years ago. When Crysis came out I was still gaming on a Mitsubishi CRT on at 1280x1024 and I was playing it on an i7 920 and an 8800 Ultra and I was BLOWN AWAY by the graphics. The I upgraded to 2600K and a GTX 295, bought a new Dell 2560x1600 monitor and I remember thinking the graphics look flat and dull. I knew I wasn't imagining things back then.
On crt the image also looks deeper due to the built. Lcd IS flat
i've found my old 19" crt and honestly it blew my mind how smooth it is, the thing is my GTX1080 don't have an analog DVI out so i can't crank it to 1600*1200 but with few tweaks i did it, now i'm stuck between the curved LCD and this CRT and i'm gonna leave them both on my desk, LCD for multimedia and Solidworks and the mighty CRT for gaming
iPpBG
I feel ya
Of course it look flat and dull, that CRT has 10 times more native contrast than any LCD monitor. Only OLED will give you a better image.
no back light bleed. gaming on my OLED is fantastic, it might not be as low latency as my FW900 but, it's enough that i'm happy. colors pop and the blacks are black.
What i love the most is that none of us can actually see how good the CRT looks since we're all on LCDs. Fantastic.
And that's the problem with modern displays: They just cannot do great CRT justice at all, and now just how it looks but how smooth and responsive it is, especially for gaming that requires immediate input and feedback, which really was essential back the classic days of gaming on the likes of NES/SNES/Genesis/etc. I mean try playing something like NES Punch-Out!! on any modern TV/monitor and it's just a total pain in the ass because of all the input lag and TV processing lag and the like.
I am on Oled on my phone you peasent which Phone got shitty LCD haja
Watching on my sd crt 32 incher.
I have 2 crts and a rear projecton TV. The last one can 1080i and I still play (in 720p) with my Xbox one X on it.
Looks beautiful and the sound is incredible.
Some of us have the CRT :D
I'm still waiting for the name change to *Analog Foundry* ....
Digital to Anolog Foundry
*Analogue
they should have a separate channel for just the retro stuff
@@ExtremalMetal I prefer that spelling too, but both work.
Next up: DF Direct of game sound on a tube amp.
I wish there was a company making modern 16:9 CRT monitors, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
Gary Laws maybe eventually there will be a niche demand for it. It’s amazing to see how many old based tech is getting modern equipment. All the high end retro consoles or vinyl players is an example of that. So eventually... I guess so.
Viewsonic used to make 16:10 CRT monitors.
I own a Viewsonic G220F, and a weaker, but well built LG 710E.
@@odinsplaygrounds There already is a niche demand for CRTs
TheDeadStretch as it’s growing and over time I mean of course. There was always a niche demand for new tech for retro consoles. But it took years and years to develop and establish itself. That’s what I mean. Back when I was collecting retro consoles in mid to late 2000s there weren’t even any flash carts except NES. Amazing to see how pretty much all consoles are covered now and even stuff like emulating the CD drive for sega CD and turbografx. Point being, it took over a decade to get there.
Gary Laws I would also
First ever footage of someone getting colleague zoned
These guys got me looking for Sony crt monitors in 2019
Some Dells have Trinitron tubes and they are pretty cheap (matt black age well also) so look closely for good alternatives because these Sony monitor are getting hard to get
Look for Pioneer KURO
Hey should i buy this for 20 bucks?
Samsung 19" Syncmaster 955DF
@@KoltronZer0 at that price it's basically free, try it out
@@kaisyaya8492 Thanks for the reply. Ya, I picked it up and took it to my buddys house with a RTX2080S and we ran PUBG on ultra everything at 145 fps. It looked absolutely amazing.
"I'm not joined by my friend... I'm joined by my colleague..."
Alex: ... :(
damn you John
SavingPrincess I felt the pain as well
When you're not even friendzoned.
Thought the exact same, that must have hurt... Ouch!
"Last time there was my friend but this time we're here with my business-accquintance-colleague guy I have to work with..."
😱
@@hateeternalmaver Hopefully getting laid isn't a problem.
Y'all are just committed to making sure I will never get my hands on a FW900, huh?
Same brother
$3k for the one on ebay inc. shipping, business expense? :)
@@chuckbiscuito Only in rare circumstances can CRTs survive shipping, way not worth, that's absurd pricing AND coming from Russia, no way it'd survive
@@EposVox I hear that. Aa a (lucky) data point, I shipped a large CRT (in original box tbf) halfway across the world in a shipping container some years ago. The case got cracked, but only at the back.
@@chuckbiscuito I paid for 2 of my 22" monitors, shipped in the ORIGINAL boxes (so theoretically how they would've shipped at release) and one had cracked internally and was completely dead. Super bummed, closest I've come to matching monitors
A DF guide to CRT screens at all budget levels would be so amazing.
Seconded. The trinitron here is SO expensive
@@joefitzgeraldrodriguez4079videos like what he is asking is the reason why thats so expensive.
I absolutely remember buying my first 32" LCD to play Gears of War. After having played on a pretty nice CRT for months, I can still remember the let-down that was the flat panel. If anything, it just got more pixely and felt different in responsiveness - even though I didnt know that that was what it was at the time. Everyone told me I was crazy but I swore that I was better on the old CRT and that the game arguably looked worse on LCD. Years later I have a 65" OLED TV, 34" ultrawide monitor and am now thinking I want to see the CRTs again. I FUCKING KNEW IT. I TOLD THEM.
My Life in Gaming made a definitive video based on why C.R.T.s are the best for retro gaming. ..and gaming in general, since there is no perceivable lag.
Bro I always played halo 3 on my crt. Went over to my friend's house and was excited to play it on his 40" flat panel. It was jarring. I didn't know what was wrong with me, but my brain just could not handle it. I absolutely hated the experience. Everyone thought I was weird too.
its even better on pc since you can run high refresh rate, i only have a basic crt it can only go 120hz at 1160x650 (~80% 720p) but the responsiveness is insane, plus the deep blacks, and it can also do 1820x1366 at 60hz or 1600x1200 at 72hz
I have 55" 120Hz LCD, yesterday I bought CRT Sony Trinitron 17" (4USD), now I don't use LCD for games....
OLED is a return to CRT blacks, I love HDR on a good OLED display.
A console player's CRT perspective - I spent most of my ps3 days on a monster 34inch Sony CRT. That picture was so sweet. For example - The nighttime driving in GTA V. Everything just popped. Deep blacks. Such vivid highlights and reflections. My current LCD cannot recapture that sort of magic... but it is 185 pounds lighter.
185 pounds = 85GB??
Plasma tvs are somewhat middle ground. I suggest you get a post 2010, 50" plasma. You will not regret it.
@@jacobwilson9477 The later plasmas do not suffer from burn-in. Only "image retention" which goes away after 10 minutes. Agreed on anything else though!
ps: I would ONLY recommend a 2011-2014 plasma model and only if one can get it on a bargain.
@@jacobwilson9477 What year is it? My 50pb5600 is a 2014 model. A very late Plasma indeed. I've been heavily using it for the past 6 years without burn in issues. Mainly for gaming mind you.
@@jacobwilson9477 Ah, it seems you have a 2009 model. I bet those plasma generations were plagued by burn in. Is that the case?
Stop teasing me with a crt which I can't buy
@@Lethargo226
1st time on Digital Foundry I see
@@GameslordXY No, but why do you say?
Lethargo226 first time?
Lethargo226 Welcome to Digital Foundry’s UA-cam channel, I see it’s your first time here :)
You can via internet.
That Sony Trinitron FWDsomethin or something they are showing Control and stuff on,is 2000$ or something @ ebay.
I wonder if we'll ever see a modernized version of an analog display, with the benefits of a CRT but without the bulk.
Maybe lasers. Lasers just fall in price year after year like a stone. Short throw laser projectors are still expensive, but at some point they won't be. You can get rid of glare by having a special surface that you project onto, that discriminates light that doesn't come from below (where the projector is). Many of these are DLP projectors with a laser lightsource but they don't have to be; they could sweep the screen like an electron beam sweeps a CRT with a suitable set of MEMS mirrors. Maybe one tiny diode laser + MEMS mirror per row of content and swep from top to bottom while varying laser brightness.
Ultimately you just need a few mW of properly formated light going directly into your eyeball and it does not make sense to have an elaborate rube goldberg machine to get a picture on a static plane that your eyes can project onto the retina. Some kind of digital lightfield display that can simulate any focal distance.
The colors on CRT's looked more vibrant. On thin monitors they look washed out and somehow brighter. I don't know how to explain it, but if you've owned a CRT and did the switch you'll know what I'm talking about.
I just switched from a 19 inches viewsonic 1600x1200 75hz crt to a gaming laptop with a 1080p 144hz display. The 144hz feels amazing, but the colors.. It just looked more beautiful on my crt somehow.
Well, it makes sense. On an LCD, you have a white backlight shining through a color filter. In a CRT, you have actual phosphors naturally producing the colors you see.
Not on an oled rgboled or microled
WRGB OLEDs have mediocre color. Even a good IPS monitor has better color reproduction. Plasmas and CRTs still have the best color reproduction hands down.
@@NeutralAtJSP I rather stay with my 22 inch compaq p1220 CRT beast than throwing away my money on oled microled or other shitleds 🤣🤣
8:33 I think at 160 Hz you can get motion blur on CRT. It's related to the duration of phosphor glow. If you look with ultra-high-speed camera there is a chance that glow from previous refresh is still present when new frame is drawn.
THat is very interesting Tenow - will talk to John about it!
Now I know lcd's are different, but is that similar to how a 240hz monitor starts to look like natural motion blur?
@@plasmaoctopus1728 Yes pretty much, it seems that with LCD's the motion "clarity" starts at 100-120 hz (and fps matching that hz of course and also a low response time
@@alpharisc if nothing else older games basically get a nice motion blur that normally didn't in the first place lol.
_"very hard"_
Yes.
You guys should have a Digital Foundry panel at the next Consumer Electronic Show where people can stop by and marvel at this old ass crt monitor. That would be so ridiculous and amazing at the same time.
I'm sure anyone with an iota of sanity would realize what a logistical issue transporting a CRT is. They needed to be special packed just for transport to store.
@@XanthinZarda put it on the back seat in the car, strap it in and cover it in towels.
@@TechnoMinarchist legend 🤣. That's exactly how it was done
That would be absolutely amazing lmao
@@TechnoMinarchist Based
hopefully people keep pushing crt's enough to make a comeback, it can become a situation of vinyl even, but with video, and stablish the concept of "video-philes"
The term "video-phile" already exists within the movie-buff fandom, but I agree with you, yes. If they can make C.R.T. monitors with ZERO screen processing, and variable screen/resolution settings like they used to (this means ZERO lag, and great image-motion), then it would be a success if they marketed to the video gaming market.
Have retailers offer free home loading, because a killer to this technology for buyers, was the thought of lugging it home, and setting it up. For one person, doing that for 50 Kg is tiresome. *phwoo*
CRT's are never coming back unfortunately, while they provide a superior image there are too many hurdles to jump through when it comes to manufacturing. Even getting some of these CRT's repaired is becoming impossible.
@@RitzyBusiness agreed... The visual quality is and was great... I switched after having to move 3x in one summer. So heavy with two of them... I miss the visual quality, don't miss not having any room on my desk or the back pain.
@@RitzyBusiness What hurdles would those be? ... and there are only a few electronics repairers for C.R.Ts, because they have mostly retired, not because it is an impossible job.
@@badreality2 Video cards don't have analog outputs already.
I feel this needs a bit of context:
People didn't move from CRTs to LCDs for no reason. The displays DF showed are relatively high-end, even the 10€ Trinitron in its heyday. Most normal people that didn't work at TV stations or other audiovisual work were using 15"-17" CRTs at 1024x768 or 1280x1024, with wonky geometry, and often at a headache-inducing 60Hz (too ignorant to apply a resolution supported at 75Hz). Going from that to a sleek LCD monitor that was lighter on the eyes, lighter on power consumption and lighter on the desk was a given once the technology became affordable, especially for the millions that only used Office and the occasional Solitaire. For many it was an upgrade, as low-end CRTs can be a pain.
Companies also benefited from switching, as having dozens of employees using displays that consumed a fraction of the energy was fantastic por power savings.
Those masses dictated the market shift, but for many, many years, TV stations, pro gamers, architects, graphic designers, etc kept using CRTs and buying the high-end aperture grille Trinitrons and Diamondtrons, until LCD tech caught up somewhat. Only recently have those monitors come down in price, for most of their lifetime they were completely out of reach for the regular consumer.
LCD won because it was equal or better for low-end use, not high-end, it's just that it took a while for it to climb up the quality ladder to the upper echelons of monitor requirements.
That said, I have a 22" Diamondtron CRT and, while it looks great for retrogaming, my plasma looks far better for modern gaming, and my IPS laptop screen is better for web browsing and video, especially if we're talking about daylight coming through the window (where CRT becomes unusable due to glare). Newer machines also require adapters, which can negate the benefits of CRT (some adapters can't reach the CRT's max resolution/refresh rate, some graphics chips like Intel's can't output a lower resolution without wrapping it in what it thinks is the "native resolution", even though there is no such thing in this case).
I get that John is giddy about this newfound love of this technology, but as someone who never stopped using it, the honey moon can end when you realize the limitations, and I feel some might be romanticizing the old days a bit too much.
Only problem for modern "lcd technology" is the 16:9 aspect ration what is too narrow for everything. Luckily you can still get better 16:10 aspect ration IPS displays etc but usually they are premium over 16:9 and lack proper 144hz 240hz implementations
I agree, it's like they suddenly forgot about all of the obvious downsides. Display size limitations being one, the tech doesn't scale both in weight and in resolution, the aperture grill and shadow mask designs sag as they're scaled up in size, and other issues. There are resolution limits with the actual technology for this reason, as well as display size. The raster scanning, that gives it a nice motion resolution also results in lower brightness overall. The color gamut is limited to what particular phosphors can produce, digital displays have surpassed the color gamut possible with older CRT tech. It might be possible to push this further with newer tech, but having to amplify a reasonable control signal to kilovolt levels with superb linearity and low noise is extremely tricky and likely the results won't be ideal. A CRT is analog and this produces bleed between signal levels. On a digital display, you can tell a pixel to be exactly 255 r, 230 g, 250 b (based on subpixels), whereas a CRT is using 3 different electron beams to be 'around' these values, and you better hope it does so linearly...etc.
CRT's for retro make sense, the games were authored with those display parameters in mind. However, there are too many downsides for CRT's to recommend them for modern usage beyond a novelty with a timed honeymoon phase.
CRT TVs are fantastic for 240p retro gaming and other SDTV content, but once you go higher resolution, I feel a digital display is more optimal. CRT monitors I feel are best suited for retro 90s builds since the sizes used at the time (13-15") make the monitors much less clunky and the VGA resolution doesn't push against the limits of the technology so much.
Hey, I'm still using a CRT for desktop PC, but I'm not going to go around recommending one to everybody, especially when modern displays are better or at least more balanced for every usage except maybe retro gaming, but even that is getting better with integer scaling at the driver level in graphics chips.
Well said. I think if anything plasma technology should have been developed further. Do I slightly miss the days of the warm CRT glow? Sure... but let's not look back on CRTs with rose tinted glasses.
I too have a plasma TV and love it so much I prefer it to CRT for most modern games. Plasma and OLED are the successors of CRT imo, except the resolution flexibility. Maybe it's the phosphor.
Stop taunting me with this holy Grail monitor that I will never find....
jake steel hit some thrift stores,,, crt monitors are all over the place... hell just drive around your neighborhood on trash day... I pick them up curbed all the time... and most. It all, but most work fine
@@ralphhoskins2115 yeah but this particular one is very sought after and expensive
@@ralphhoskins2115 Most will look crap compared to a good LCD. I know LCD felt like an improvement from everything I owned.
jake steel I got one
@@alexatkin Then you owned the wrong CRTs
Back in 2007, i didtched my old 17" 1600x1200 LG flat crt monitor. The moment i pluged my newly adquired 1920x1200 22" lcd (16:10) i realized the mistake i've made.
Same here and sadly I even threw mine out years later because of storage space issues
@@ironiczombie2530 me too. Even been one of those flat trinitron iirc
It's a shame carbon nanotubes are such a pain in the ass to work with (so far) - we could all be using flat screen CRTs right now, instead of living in this display ghetto we all must suffer through. Well, at leased we can all come together over our shared pain.
Flat screen, one emitter per pixel CRTs (SED etc) would not have most of the benefits of CRTS. No longer being scanned, analog devices, they would have the display lag of modern displays (signal processing more so than switching time), a fixed pixel grid that makes them less suitable for the various odd resolutions favoured by retro content. Having one emitter per pixel they would not be strobed because they don't inherently need to and would have the persistence blur of modern displays. Persistence blur is caused by the movement of your eye relative to the image on the display; at 144 Hz 2560 pixel horizontal resolution, following an object across the screen in 1 second (not overly fast, even) means your eyes move 18 pixels in the time it takes to update one frame; that's 18 pixels of blur and it is the key reason LCDs suck. Persistence blur is the thing that causes motion clarity of LCDs to suck; all of them; even the ones with backlight strobing/BFI/lightboost/ULMB/ELMB... See, you can't go that bright; not like a CRT; the screen has a duty cycle of maybe 20% best case before it gets unusably dark. On a CRT the duty cycle is on the order of 1%; on a high speed camera there is band of 5-10 lines brightly lit and the rest is just darkness with a very faint trailing after image. You'd have to crank a thousand FPS to approach that kind of clarity with an LCD even with strobing.
CRTs are however not the ultimate display technology and the future looks very bright. The ultimate goal is to get a few mW of properly formated light onto your retina. Having this big thing sending light in all directions is kind of a ridiculous Rube Goldberg machine when you think about it. You can get a thumbnail sized monolithic slab of microled with 1 million Nits in FHD. Give it 5 years and I think you'll be able to get 8k by 8k and maintain retina searing levels of intensity at 0,1% duty cycle (1 million NITs is already 1000 NITs at 0,1% duty cycle, higher brightness can be achieved by higher duty cycle in bright scenes if needed); with 3 different green LEDs per pixel for (red, green and blue cones overlap in sensitivity, meaning humans cannot see pure green; it is always a little cyan or a little yellow; you get a deeper chartreuse with a dedicated chartreuse-green subpixel and deeper cyan with a dedicated cyan-green subpixel; with foveated rendering so you can ignore 99% of the workload with little degradation in visual quality; with head tracking so you can simulate any display size. Peripherical vision can be much crappier (think fixed foveated) because you're never going to swivel your eyes that much in their sockets that you directly look at the peripheral display. Even if you hate VR, the ability to simulate an IMAX quality display with a pocket sized object means everyone will use it. Like 16:9 LCDS they'll get dragged along whether they want to or not.
I disagree with the OP. The CRT is not a superior technology.
Funny.
I think they would have had real flat CRTs by 2010 if they continued
@@realamericannegro977 we almost did
Avoid Ebay and anyone who tries to put a "Gaming" or "Authentic" tag on their sales. They're out to make a buck and we have to push those scalpers aside.
I do that all the time. Those are the sell words. Also what's wrong with making a buck? I often sell discontinued professional monitors for more than their original price, becuase many designers have exactly equal monitor setup and when one dies they either need to buy 2 new ones, or search for a used one. Win win situation.
@@mezmerya5130 High cost is nothing but a barrier. Only a few people will be willing to pay top dollar, but the rest of us are being forced to accept what we have as others are sitting there trying to take advantage of our hobby.
I'm familiar to both sides of the argument and I fully don't agree with it. Neither does anyone else. Scalpers are scum.
@@voltz15 find the hobby that doesn't involve professional oriented items with huge potential price premium. and i personally like selling to people that gonna earn money with my wares, care about and value them, than to another basement dweller.
@@mezmerya5130 I agree, this how markets work with any hobby or specialized item. Plus, all this is is a willing tradeoff for convenience or assurance of quality versus time invested hunting
That's all good and fine in a major metro area, out in the boonies, it's pretty well ebay or nothing.
*looks on eBay for this monitor*
Oh good, only $3,000. Perfect.
Holy shit, seriously?
@@L4veyan yeah, it's one of the best CRTs you can get basically, and they're getting more and more rare.
Don't type CRT just look for them. Most people don't even know the value of old monitors so they just sell it as junk
Yeah, but Ebay is a trap for anything crt now. Cheapest I’ve seen is around $150 for 17” of any ole brand. Do you have search suggestions?
@@kevboard And I thought my new Oled tv was expensive... lol
I miss the CRT Glow and Warmth in the winter time.
And the constant high pitched whine
So does my cat - she used to be curled up on top with her head hanging over the screen, so cute ^_^
Those blasts of radiation were the best!
@@blitzwing1
I can still hear noise over 17khz
Additionally I can hear other noise that is inaudible to others, but I'm not sure exactly why or how yet as the frequency is much lower and amplitude is far higher. Probably has to do with the power transformer and capacitors inside some electronics.
CRT screens are annoying to me on an acoustic level. Beyond that the invisible radio exposure is significant enough to see objects like people and animals through solids using specialized hardware in certain machines that may or may not have other applications depending on the size of the display.
@@abeidiot Didn't the radiation come out of the back of the set? Cathode Ray Tubes do emit radiation. Modern TVs are much easier on the eyes too.
I had two 20" monster CRTs as my desktop back in college (early 2000s) that I got for free when my friend's mother's office shut down and let the employees come take whatever hardware they wanted. I want to say they were ~1200p and ~65hz. They were so good for gaming and way bigger than any LCD at the time. Because of this I was a long time hold out on switching to LCD. Once affordable LCDs got up to 20" it was hard to justify the size, weight, loss of desk space so I "upgraded". But looking back now after seeing your videos on the subject I lament having thrown them away. It almost feels like I made a deal with the devil trading away my pure PC gaming quality to save a few quick pounds. I guess we all just assumed that eventually flat screens would be better than CRT in every way based on how quickly flat screens were (and still are) advancing.
But why throw a perfectly functioning product away? Esp something with good qualities to this day such as a crt monitor. Couldn't put them away in storage anywhere? Closet, attic, basement, why the trash
@@retrosoul8770 CRT is really massive, like really fucking massive, especially when you live in an apartment.
Fortunately the younger 10 years old me insist that CRT is better, and just grabbed my dad's CRT and refuse to let go, and I still use the CRT for ultra competitive game/full on RTX game.
Unfortunately everytime when I switch from LCD to CRT I had to remember checking settings, some setting is completely unnecessary on CRT.
@@Verpal yeah if you're in a small apartment that's true. And not everyone has a mom or grandparents house they can just stick a crt into for potentially long-term storage. I do but I'm not everyone. Total I've got about 3 good consumer crts for retro gaming and one AOpen 1200p pc monitor. Wouldn't give any of them up for nothing esp my Trinitron.
This whole video is alex staring into the distance wondering how he's going to find one of those sweet 24" CRTs haha
More like staring into the distance wondering why John doesn't consider him a friend 😭
Its easy to reminisce how good CRT was. But when the bloody thing starts to break down and flicker, most of us would remember smacking and slamming it furiously on the sides while spewing unspeakable curses lol
If you had a low end CRT then you had to deal with that.
Honestly I think majority of people who romanticize CRT haven't had to deal with owning one for years at a time. All those days of lost desktop space, of my poor fiberboard table bowing under the weight of a 21" flat panel, the damned thing nearing end-of-life and just turning on but giving you nothing but a static hum.
@@groidcel I had a high end viewsonic that burnt out after 4 years, likely due to the prevalence of cheap chinese capacitors in the late 90s into the 2000s
burn-ins, low resolution, small size (biggest I had was 19" CRT, 4:3 aspect ratio, heavy AF, large and cumbersome and a million other issues. this is as silly as the vinyl vs compact disc debate.
@@exxmodel >ViewSonic
I've said this back in the day and people called me all sorts of names...
Steve Jones why? He was right.
Like...josh?
Brad Ditch what were the names they called you? please write exactly what they said. cheers.
@Steve Jones - You are dumb.
They called you a madman
I never thought I'd see the day where one man owns more than one Wii U. John you absolute madman.
i cant stop staring at it now
I always liked crt more, I still have a 36" crt hdtv still in the house.
Your poor back...
My friends and I hefted mine upstairs last month. Took us 1 hour and 30 min to get it up 18 steps. What's your model? Mine's a KV-36XBR800
Sony Trinitron damn XBR... that’s like top of the line..
Sony and Canon were working on LCD sized CRTs called SED TVs and FED TVs. They used what was essentially a bunch of tiny electron guns that would act as pixels. Unfortunately this was around the recession and their were patent issues with the tech, it's disappointing they never made it to market. It would be amazing if someone brought the tech back, look up SED TV on youtube there is a few videos.
I actually waited and waited for a SED monitor seeing the light because I knew about all the disadvantages of a LCD. In the end I just bought the very 2 best (affordable) ones there were at that time regarding picture quality, black levels / contrast, viewing-angles etc. - EIZO S1910. Still got them, besides a S2234W which I bought a few years later. All 3 monitors with S-PVA panels. And you know what? They look waaay better than those 500$ IPS displays from 2019. So looks like we're _still_ going backwards!
For me that was info was cool 👍 the info in the video was allready presented in older videosa 🙃
@@surject Eizo is the only company that make LCD less crap. I owned the EV2333W and it’s the best monitor I have ever owned I thought I was using the Sony FW900 😝
John's CRT Conversion Therapy
Great video, I picked up an FW900 last year and have a few YT videos shot with the display. It is also my main monitor that I’ll use while streaming modern games. Very happy with it and use it over a larger Asus LCD.
I truly believe if some company decided to make CRT there would be a market for them, limited but I think they would still make some profit.
I really wish the SED (surface-conduction electron-emitter display) tech had taken off.. it was slightly thicker than LCD display techs but used phosphor like elements to display like CRTs. I remember hearing about that in the early 2000s then the tech just completely died out.
Yeah, I just found found out about that not long ago. It would have been so amazing to have one of those.
It didn't die. It was murdered.
These new TVs suck ass
Alex seems so dejected … as if someone had just told him his whole life had been a lie lol
Looking at that reaction, and seeing the TV in the back with a globe earth, my guess is, yes! He has been lied to all his life! 😅
Kaffeebohnson not a friend.. just a colleague...
😰
nah, he just saw how much those Fooking FW900s cost. You either get luck, pay through the nose.. or accept it.
@@ADRzone based
Well, because, his whole life basically has been a lie haha
I wish Canon's SED TV's made it to market. How things would be different.
the factory that was about to make them was ultimately used for making something else, SED failed because it did not bring what most consumers wanted. SED was technically superior and was also more expensive than LCDs, and that price difference was what made canon and toshiba pull the plug on SED. Fortunately AUO adquired technology from sony to produce FED, which is very similar to SED. now, do we need CRTs and SED/FEDs anymore? microLED and OLED are just around the corner and are just as good. microLEDs and OLEDs are better than LCDs by nature, just like CRTs and SEDs.
@@imeakdo7 Microleds and OLEDs have display lag, whereas a well-built C.R.T. does not. So yes, we DO need C.R.T./S.E.D./F.E.D. technology for good video gaming.
@@imeakdo7 I guess you did not listen to what he said ar 12:58, about OLED display brightness intensity.
@@imeakdo7 And at 19:35.
@@badreality2 I'm guessing SEDs and FEDs could still have display lag since they still need to be driven like LCD/OLED/microLED, that is, using an addressable grid or an active matrix. CRTs are a niche, now, toshiba hokuto and thomas electronics still make CRTs for aerospace applications, but i'm pretty sure it will be very hard to convince them to make mid sized CRTs, especially not without an order for millions of CRTs, also making a 4k CRT, let alone an 8k one would be difficult, it would need new long persistence phosphors/powerful electron guns and a watercooled deflection coil/electron gun (since they emit a ton of heat at high refresh rates/resolutions and the glue that holds the coils in place starts to lose its strength) I'm guessing that a new 4k CRT could easily cost several thousand dollars, making it a niche product that is very expensive and out of reach for most of its potential buyers. In short, selling a new CRT in 2020 is next to impossible.
Have you looked into plasma televisions? As far as I understood, they are the closest you can get to a 'flat CRT': true black levels, fantastic colors and most importantly _no motion blur_.
Obviously, they can't scan arbitrary resolutions (or refresh rates?), but the upside is they come in truly massive sizes and are dirt cheap at the moment. They can mount flat to a wall and while being heavy, they're not nearly as heavy as a large CRT.
Every day we stray further from god's phosphor light.
Jeffrey Grubb but we ourselves can change
Welcome my brothers and sisters, to the Church of Cathology..oh, wait I think that one's taken already.
@@redrumtm3435 The guy who won't shut up about how much better his CRT is than your LCD is definitely a Cathodick.
@@JeffreyGrubb He isn't wrong about the benefits of a good CRT though.
The keyword there being *good*. It's an expensive hobby, and you have no way of knowing just how long your $3000 CRT monitor will last before it needs an expensive repair by a specialist - and that's if you can find one that still has the required tools to do the job.
You can get some of the benefits of a CRT with a Plasma TV. For last gen games, you can pick up any old CRT monitor that is capable of 540p and get incredible results. It essentially gives you free anti-aliasing, perfect black levels, and zero motion blur - in exchange for a subtle loss in sharpness.
I used to play an Xbox 360 on a 480p flat screen CRT TV with an S-scart lead, and it looked incredible. Image quality was greatly improved on every game that had terrible aliasing issues when played on a 720p/1080p LCD. But Skyrim for example, looked a lot better on a native 720p LCD.
For reference, I have zero interest in getting an Amoled TV because of the inevitability of image burn in. I always weigh up the pros and cons of every technology, and purchase according to my needs and budget. For this reason, I would never spend $3000 on a CRT, but each to their own.
@@redrumtm3435 You know..... This makes sense as to why many times Digital Foundry seems like full of shit sometimes. It's probably because I have been gaming on a Panasonic Plasma 3Dtv from 2010 ('TC-46PGT24') since 2011.
I don't get much Input delay if ever, a game with inconsistent frames don't hinder controls or how the games feel, and I don't see many bad Jaggies or as bad as they way they describe bad games in their analysis.
I also only have ever used Wired Controllers this gen on Xb1.
So this is probably why I always think "I remember this games as looking much better" when i go back to playing older games.
So true!
This is also the change in your memories, combined with the fact your standards have improved.
Some games I played on a flat panel long ago give me the same feeling of "it looked better"
Yeah tried my old consoles on my 40 inch LCD and was amazed how bad they looked. Like watching compressed video of the real thing. Keeping my CRT as long as it and the consoles work.
I am pretty sure it is mostly your standards changing. When I go back to last generation games I played on PC or PS3 on LCD display they also look much worse than I remember.
@@weaverquest well it isn't so much individual standards changing, it's that the market is changing. Things are becoming of utmost graphical quality, and it's only going to keep on. I'm happy with 720p, 1080p, or 4k as well. I have all 3 lmao, my Switch screen is 720p, my monitor is a 1080p 144hz, and my tv is a 4k 43" Sony, and honestly I like them all equally.
I have a 19" Diamondtron PC CRT and an a 4K OLED at home.
At first I just used the CRT for Retrogaming and the 4K OLED for everything else.
One day I got me a colorimeter, downloaded DisplayCal and calibrated my CRT.
The OLED is now gathering dust.
Why? The oled is better at mostly everything minus multiscan and motion clarity.
@@cortadew CRT is better than Oled.
Imagine if SED/FED didn't get caught up in lawsuit nonsense. We'd have flat CRT's, the flawless display technology already.
Leopardipzg at least OLED now can do many thing better than crt. Except it’s still 16:9
@@alpzepta oled sucks balls lol
@@MrNapkino maybe micro led will be a better one
@@alpzepta Still fixed pixel grid.
Sony trinitron was, and it seems still is, the king of televisions.
That's what Sony wants you to think.
Like a Sony Walkman is the best Walkman, yes? No?! Hmmm🤔
@@tydendurler9574 Sony Walkman Pro was/is without any shadow of a doubt the best portable tape player ever made. Objective fact.
@@tydendurler9574 Walkman professional D6C.
@Cat Man
And I prefer Panasonic and Philips(not necessarily in that order😁).
@Cat Man i had a Phillips match line for 17 years! the image quality and size compared to its depth were really good. I loved that thing. than it broke down and i rushed and bough an lcd as it was the new cool tech... now i regret it deeply that i didn't hold on to her :(
03:45 The G-Man has been stuck in a CRT all these years. That’s why no Half-Life 3 yet :/
No way they gonna release some single-player classic AAA-class game on PC.
Wait until Valve starts their own console.
They'll need a platformseller.
ADDED: or wait for the total CLOUD times.
PrezidentTrump you must be real fun at parties!
VLAD URBAN after the disaster that steam machines were, its gonna be either cloud or vr
You kind of unlocked memories in my mind. Its kind of scary. Its so much more clear now why Half-Life 1 back in the day, always felt and looked great, and no one ever really cared about FPS or Res, because it just matter so much less.
I was installing high end LCDs back in the early 2000s for people and removing their CRTs and I hated doing it because the CRTs looked far better picture wise for a loooooooong time. LCD tech required HD in order to look anywhere near as good as CRT but even then due to the back lights they never 'popped' in the same way. Also I mourn the loss of plasma which was imo a lot closer to a CRT image than an LCD ever got (and why I still have one to this day)
I used to use a Panasonic plasma for a long time and it was amazing. There was something about it that looked so good to my eyes. I recently upgraded to a Sony OLED and it looks great, but there was something about that plasma that I really really liked.
@@zakterp3360 same feel for me with the Daytona USA arcade game and what I can remember of my aunt's CRT when I was 3. The blue colours look *way* more saturated and pleasing to look at. Think the Toshiba Regza LCD has the same or *similar* blue tones, tho...
I hear the green levels are outrageous on the fixed pickle displays.
😂😂
👌
damn, those anisotrophic specular highlights on johns hair though...
(johns haircut looks fly)
aL3891 Father John is steezing today
There is definitely a very good AA implementation too and do I detect some software based Ray tracing?
I've gone through 2 of the Sony GDM-FW900. Still upset to this day they both died. Even more upset, that I trashed them when they quit, instead of taking them to get repaired. Always thought I could just find another since LCD became so popular. The amount of lag from mouse to screen on a CRT feels like zero. It's so smooth, and even my $600 Dell 1440p g-sync monitor can't touch it. Let alone the black levels.
Biggest mistake ever.. every FW900 died.. the price even raise higher.
Yes! LCDs were a *BIG MISTAKE* for gaming!
I really want CRTs to come back!!
Went to a retro arcade bar recently and I was blown away at how great the 80s/90s arcade CRTs looked. I was even more impressed playing an original Asteroids machine (vector black and white CRT), literally no game can ever come close to how that game looked!
Well, yeah.
When you strip back all the elements of a game to literal vectors, using a modified oscilloscope, of course it would be smoother than anything. They're also awful at animation; hence why Asteroids has no actual animation to speak of.
Keep up the awareness, DF. I'm still hopeful one day a company releases an enthusiast line of modern CRTs for purchase. If vinyl lovers can have their fun, I believe we can too!
to get a return, they would cost thousands each to the end-user
Record player - vinyl
CRT TV - ...?
🤔
@@InnuendoXP There's still a lot of people who would buy at 2-3000. If it was a really good crt
@@InnuendoXP better than paying 2000€ for used FW9000 haha
The amount of R&D required to produce CRTs in the modern day is unfathomable. It's not comparable to vinyl records at all.
Watching this on my etch-a-sketch
cleanest lines ever
nothing else come close
It's not flickering from him recording the CRT, WHAT KIND OF MAGIC IS THIS!?!
I'm grateful that you're shedding light on what we've lost. I think the biggest loss is the quality of motion. CRTs don't need crazy-high frame rates to avoid ghosting and smearing. The problem is persistence. A pixel on a CRT has very short persistence. That's why 60-75Hz is plenty for perfect-looking motion on a CRT. A pixel on an LCD persists continuously until it gets replaced by another pixel. This sample-and-hold behavior is terrible for the illusion of motion, and we need a refresh in the hundreds of Hz to provide some moving smoothness (and that's assuming fast-response LCD). The other big factor is illumination. Nothing can beat pixels that illuminate themselves. Backlights suck.
So the question is how do we move forward? We can't go back to CRTs, so we need display technology that at least matches their salient points and avoids their drawbacks. We'll probably always have fixed-pixel grids in displays from now on, but we should be able to get away from backlit LCD, into something that restores the quality of motion, contrast ratios and viewing angles of our past.
I'm thinking that it might be possible to use lasers to excite quantum dots using a line by line rolling scan similar to how electron guns scan in CRTs. Assuming quantum dots are bright enough (which I believe they are, but I would need to research to confirm) this sort of display should be able to give us most of the benefits of CRTs while avoiding most of their drawbacks.
The only thing I don't miss about CRT's is the weight. As pretty as my 4K LCD or my plasma can be, I find myself trying to compensate for something. I can't quite describe it, like there's a disconnect from the image displayed? Maybe it's the flicker or maybe I'm missing having electrons spewed at me :(
Even if you are right, you didnt have to move them that often... and since lan-parties are a thing of the past, its even less of an issue in most cases ;)
seriously, the footage of the crt on my lcd still looks amazeballs. Like you can tell its magical.
I can tell the smoothness and I'm also on an LCD. And UA-cam videos are compressed and of course, we are seeing the camera's output here, but it's still noticeable.
I feel so vindicated lol, I never switched from CRTs and people always gave me shit for it
Lol , you’re a legend now
...me too... still using a CRT today !
Yeah these is about good CRTs (pro level) not old regular monitors
@@alejandrobolanos4655 I am not using an old regular monitor... mine was really expensive at the time !
@@alexb.e7498 one of the lucky ones!
Not my friend just a collegue. :(
Roman Bellic best friend
Ultimately expandable, like Chromatic Aberration, and at any moment to be forgotten in the whispers of the past like a single core CPU. :(
Poor Alex getting collegue-zoned at the beginning lmfao
You guys have a great channel. The passion is palpable. Keep it up!
Okay, when you mentioned OG Xbox One plugged in CRT monitor, you had me - I definitely buy myself a nice CRT monitor for this holiday season. Base Xbox One and kinda old PC (i5 one of first generations, 4GB of RAM and 550TI with 1GB) are my platforms.
I'd love to see an overall comparison video on displays from CRT to Plasma to LCD/LED and finally OLED.
42crazyguy the Pioneer Kuro was and still is absolutely ball tingling.
OLED actually has CRT beat for image geometry, linearity, color and brightness, (as tubes are now pushing 20+ years) but loses to CRT in terms of motion resolution, response times, and versatility of input resolutions due to CRT not being a fixed pixel display.
The best $30,000 Sony OLED PVM only has about 300 lines of resolution during fast motion images (due to pixel switch times and persistence of vision) while a CRT doesnt lose resolution during fast motion.
Plasma can be fast and have the color / contrast attributes. Look for the 3D capable ones. They have very fast video processors, and can deliver 3D at up to 120Hz. I have a large Samsung panel, and it is very CRT like. Phosphors glowing in tubes are fast by nature.
They do not have the dynamic resolution attributes a CRT has, but at a multiple of their native resolution, in game mode, are a great alternative. One can get a similar experience.
IMHO a very good experience.
CRT for life. I grew up on CRT TVs. I remember when you had static on the screen, WHILE you were playing a game.
I also remember the annoying 15KHz sine noise from the tube.
@@saricubra2867 On TVs Monitors are Minimum 31khz
@@ManOfAttitudeLP1998Because they have way higher refresh rates than 50 or 60 Hz .
@@saricubra2867 It IS about the hfreq which js 15khz on Consumer and atleast 31khz at 480p on Monitor
@@saricubra2867 oh yeah that mindscratching noise I still hear it today
I still play all my retro console games and arcade games on my 32" Sony Trinitron. It looks amazing. 😉👍
TV so I so but this can't compare to this top.tier Monitor
Getting a CRT in Sweden is near impossible. And living in 21sqm I don't even know if I could house one comfortably. Hahaha. But I do agree. Image quality is sensational. Both for retro games and PC games. In a dream world Sony would make "the ultimate CRT" . allowing super hi-res and Hz as well as lo-res modes incl 15KHz. I would buy a monitor like that in a heart beat, even at a hefty premium.
You can easily find an crt in Austria for free. To find an Sony crt is probably a bit hard and would take time but there are still a lot of crt around
@@heidip1782 Good CRTs are expensive and difficult to find anywhere. No matter if it is a 15 kHz BVM for consoles or a computer monitor for PC gaming. Less attractive CRTs are not hard to find here in Sweden or anywhere else.
I like that you refuse to refer to Alex as a friend and specifically emphasise that he's your colleague :D
Because that's what they are.
Colleagues.
Of the screen outside of DF offices,they are very likeky pals.
@@GameslordXY I like to imagine that they absolutely loath each other outside of DF and as soon as the camera stops rolling their expressions drop to absolute anger and one of them storms off.
@@Xilefian as fun as it would be to imagine, their chemistry is too natural. There's no way they change attitude off camera lol.
From what I understand, the enthusiasts definitely clung to their super high-end CRTs after they were discontinued. It's an amusingly similar situation to how some audiophiles will go through great lengths to use tube equipment, because they like to introduce that warm analog aspect to the sound of their system.
Analog audio has basically been proven to be substantially better though from what I understand.
@@YourPalHDee For the most part that's really not the case. In terms of possible sound quality no readily available format can even beat CD, much less a higher resolution digital recording. There's something to be said about vinyl being mastered better or tube amps sounding pleasantly warm, but none of that means analog is inherently superior.
I like vinyl by the way, I'm not saying this to be an arsehole.
@@YourPalHDee The masters for a lot of early CD's were butchered in production but it also takes a better than average DAC to get the most of the digital copy.
The valves sure are much better. 😍
I NEED to try this. God damn it. Why did we get rid of our CRT monitors?!
As a result you initial video.... I searched youtube and messaged folks to see if they would sell their FW900. Drove 3k miles from North TX to NJ to pick one up.... Crazy, but did what I had to do & love it!
This vid is going to be responsible for a few back injuries 😁
when you look, the top 5 patreons are also all Chiropracters... ;p
Hahaha
Around 2008 I switched to a 16:10 LCD same as Alex. My very first reaction was being pissed that the LCD was bigger and higher res but did not look nearly as smooth lol.
Probably some cheap ass 720p LCD compared to your good, trusted CRT.
I did exactly the same in the same year and i was blown away by the HD-Picture of Motorstorm on PS3 compared to my old 80cm Panasonic TV.
Keep in mind that even 37" Screens are bigger than most CRT-TV's. Now we all own & game on 130cm+ screens...
@@tydendurler9574 Nope I have a 24inch 144jz Monitor and a 4:3 20Inch CRT
Dual mini-CRT display VR headset. Your neck never stood a chance 😂
To be fair: The Sony GDM-FW900 did cost over 2000 Euros back in the days and no gamer had one of those..
No graphics Card could handle it Back then
My best school mate's father who is in advertising has one of those. I remember him telling me it cost him $5000 AUD. It's capable of multiple colour systems. Absolute beast of a display monitor. If I had it I wouldn't replace it. Especially with the CPU and GPU power capabilities today.
Is that why they are so rare now?!!
the reason people went away from CRTs was since at the time lan events where the thing gamers were doing so people chucked the CRTs there were a couple of hold outs for a long time but when you started seeing 120 and 144hz monitors those people swaped as well since it dosen't matter how CRTs handle each screen when the higher refresh of LCDs just means more information to the eyes and you perform better.
then i think a huge point that you kind of overlook is that this trinitron is the peak of CRTs there is not much more that was made that was better meanwhile the typical CRT well it looked like shit it was blurry and fiddle as shit. and the cost of the trinitron was massiv not many people could afford it at the time.
personally i would really like to see what a modern CRT would be able to do if the RnD was put into it. i mean technically just something like free-sync/g-sync on CRT would be able to wait until a new frame happens inorder to draw it meaning a range 2-120hz on CRTs would be possible but at the same time it would be kind of unnecessary.
At least one person who thinks straight.
All these comments here comparing THE best CRT TV's with their shitty, cheap produced LCD they bought at Wal Mart😒
@@tydendurler9574 They compare it even to oleds and still the crt wins.
@@livewallberg which oled?how big was the oled?
How tiny the CRT?
CRT has 50years RnD, Oled maybe 10...
Do i have to make this point or can you think for yourself?
a friend of mine bought a very expensive one back in the day cant remember what it was exactly but my memory tells me it was a hyundai. And it could do up to 240hz on 800x600 which was crazy to play Quake 3 on...
You must be out of your mind if you're attributing shift to LCDs to an extremely niche thing 99.9% of the people don't even know about.
I noticed the input lag difference in LCD TVs when playing guitar hero on HD consoles. It was unplayable being so used to the ps2 on a crt.
Then your HD TV was shit. Period.
lag varies among lcd tv's. mine only has 5ms or a single frame which is unnoticeable. I play rhythm games regularly.
A single frame of latency is 16ms? If you have a low latency lcd then the picture quality is shit. Crt draws the picture as soon as the signal is received, this cannot be beaten or equalled by lcd.
I never notice any input lag when i play my ps2 on my 4k led lg tv, there probably is more input lag then a crt but nothing noticable in my opinion it's about the same as if i was playing my xbox one
@@shaunstephen9761 the picture quality is normal, not enhanced but also not shit.
though I admit the tv is old and low end, but very nice for a 22 inch 1080p display with svideo and component video with flawless 240p support (so I can play ps2 without problems). its an aoc le22h037.
So glad to hear connoisseurs like you praising crt's.. I remember an old friend of mine and my brother in-law constantly screaming at us that lcd's and blu-ray are "TAKING OVER" and to "GET WITH THE TIMEZ" back when they were still new.. lol
FINALLY, THE VIDEO I WANTED!
Edit: Not the video I wanted. I want metrics, god damn it! But I guess it's good they haven't released that yet, because I'm still trying to find an affordable high-end CRT and when they benchmark one, those will be extinct.
Nice video, though.
Stadia on a CRT with a 56K modem. Do it DF!
Nah, I want them to do stadia with the most generic first gen 720p tv available. all the input lag, and probably not even 60 hz.
LOL! Let's even go slower. How about a 28K modem?
@@conyo985 What about an acoustic coupler? 😁👍
@@wondermuffin9129 I had to search for that one because I did not know what it meant. Too bad I was just a very young baby in the 80's so I never used one before.
Oh, remember how i played on CRT monitor, smooth motion, and very great color quality.
Aaaaand 576p max.
Nope, the monitor in the video does 1440p
@@shaunstephen9761 aaaand how many 0,1% can utilize said "monitor"?😒
Not to mention the price...
@@tydendurler9574 Got one that does 2048 x 1536. A tiny fraction of the price of an FW900. But most importantly, you don't even need that. 1440*1080p or even 1280*960 and past that it is hard to tell.
@ true. I meant CRT-TV-Gaming.
I was really missing CRT gaming a few years ago. I was given a 36 inch Toshiba Analogue HD CRT. This is a CRT with an analogue HDMI port. I realized it was an analogue port when I hooked my Analogue Super NT Mini up to it and it did not work. This TV is a retro gamer's dream. It runs everything in 576i straight off composite cables. Even my RF only NES toploader looks good on this TV. Component runs everything at 720i and HDMI runs everything at 1080i. Since this is not a digital TV and runs everything analogue it has absolutely no lag. My former brother-in-law had it and when he bought a 55inch lcd for his living room, he just gave me the TV. He said he bought it in 2004. Placing it right at the end of the CRT life cycle. I saw a video by Techmoan where he was talking about Analogue Laser Disk that played in 1080i coming out in Japan in the mid 1990's. He said that you had to have one of these TV's to even play them. They must have bought a few out in America. I can't find alot of info on the TV online. So, it must be fairly rare.
I had a Samsung crt 480p tv during the PS3 era, I found the text in certain games to be unreadable to an extent that it stopped me from playing rdr.
It wasn't 480p you idot and Samsung sucks at geometry you used composite and 480i 480p over Component would let the text look sharp
@@ManOfAttitudeLP1998 are you an idiot.??? Do u know more about my TV then i do?. The tvs that digital foundary mentions are not 480 p they are well above 720p. And i did mention the brand of the TV so i wasn't really sure if it's only a brand thing or the usual resolution issue
@@justaname4288 DF mentions monitors you dude owned a TV PS3 can't connect to CRt Monitors they have VGA.
Tvs have 15khz which is max 576 i not p i so it is interlaced and text will be unsharp
@@ManOfAttitudeLP1998 i never mentioned about using a crt monitor read my comment properly and df has used monitors as well as tvs in their videos
@@justaname4288 Dude I knew that but you claimed a TV as 480p which is not the truth as I mentioned you either Dumb or got Zero knowledge on CRTs in general
15:02 "if you haven't seen this with your own eyes, it sounds like we're crazy"
I remember CRT monitors. I was a late adopter of LCDs. This argument is crazy.
My gaming experience on a 120Hz CRT was better than any LCDs I've ever played on.
@@antonkirilenko3116 You've played on crappy LCDs, then.
@@RicochetForce You never played on a CRT
@@RicochetForce Lol there's absolutely no display on the market being sold now that can compare to the perfect motion clarity of any CRT, nevermind a high refresh-rate one. CRTs are as sharp when displaying moving images as they are when displaying static ones. That's a feat that sample-and-hold displays like LCDs and OLEDS can never match, not even high-refresh rate LCDs with ULMB (ultra low motion blur), backlight strobing, whatever. Furthermore, there's no display being sold now that elegantly handles multiple resolutions like CRTs. It's easy to tell you've never played on a CRT before.
Great talk. I look forward to more discussions about the pros and cons of CRT's.
OLED, Plasma and CRT.
The holy trinity of beautiful displays.
Congratulation on 800K Subscribers i wish you reach 1 Million in 2020
You all have a good life and God bless you!!!
You are not crazy
Crt have a more natural motion and all the advantages you have mention.
They should bring crts back just for gaming!
What does "natural" mean here? The goal isn't "natural" when you display an image on-screen. Most things "naturally" look and sound like shit.
Organic means smooth, pleasing and believable. CRTs have these qualities in a way that no other display technology matches.
Not pursuing SED was a huge mistake.
I think it's so cool to see that DLSS changed the resolution scaling issue so much making 4k screens super viable for almost any resolution and even better at same resolutions than native screens. Algorithms over panel tech, and also one thing not touched upon obviously is brightness which is way lower for crts. So while yes the motion clarity is great I think we are getting some things which are way better in return especially with oled tech atm.
I remember setting up specific resolutions for my fave MAME games on my Amiga for my CRT back in the early 2000’s.
I guess the problem for me was, I was wowed by the flatness and resolution, but didn’t realise what I had.
At least dogs can see LCD images now and can react to the dogs in games so there’s that
Lmao
And hot dogs can see my insides
@@Krisztian5HUN You look like a hot dog
This is interesting. I personally thought this back in early 2010 and 2009 as hd screens were becoming a thing.
Hdr was naturally more present in CRT s and everything looked cleaner.
Exactly. They go on all about all the HDR--and CRT basically does that by default.
I actually went back to CRT after getting my first LCD because of the blurry mess than LCD monitors were. It felt like such a downgrade, and I didn't even have what was considered a high end CRT. Mine had a peak resolution of 1280x1024, but what really hurt is going from 90hz back down to 60hz.
Just imagine going from a 2048x1536 literal 0ms response time to 1280x720 60hz 16ms response time. Ouch.
Love this..!! You guys took the words right out of my mouth. The entire video!! Thank. You! 👏🏼👏🏼
You guys should do this with plasmas I swear plasmas had better response time compared to LEDs or LCD TV
They also have that softer look John is mentioning, but they literally burn.
I will use a plasma tv and it's amazing. I don't game on it just because the resolution is too low (1024x768), but the colors and response times are way better than my LCD. And it's f*ing heavy too LOL.
@@xmaverickhunterkx depends on what model you have I have a Panasonic from 2013 it was the high end model and still works zero burn in. I also have a d7000 series from Samsung and same with that one zero burn in but the connectivity is slow (Netflix and other apps) and in my bed room I have a Sony x900e 4k led and that one is the one with the worse response time and the worse picture it doesn't get nearly as black as the plasmas and it gets alot of led spots being to bright on black bars
@@ghost085 on some plasmas you can still run 1080p even if the resolution of the panel is only 768 I remember my first Samsung plasma did that and so did my LG
@@ramongonzalez9497 True, but computers show much more static content than a TV signal.
This is same discussion which photographers have Digital vs Film photography.
hmmm no it's not, it is on the the technical level but not on the practical side of things, film photography may look better in some cases, but it's just way too inconvenient, CRTs are not so impractical, if they were still developed the only downside would be the size and that's it.
@@matocarina Also their weight, which is an important factor. It was just an analogy, don't need to be perfect same in every aspect (hence its an analogy and not the same).
@@thingsiplay Its similar to monitors. Every digital point & shoot camera I've seen, the images look horrendous but even a cheap DSLR is miles ahead. A mate of mine has a medium format film camera from around the 60s and the images are incredible. So basically a use case scenario.
@@matocarina interestingly the size and weight concern was just about to be solved until crt development stopped. There are early prototype 2 inch deep crts developed by panasonic from the 90s. LCD wasn't pushed/adopted because it was better, just cheaper in every way.
@Steve Jones You don't seem to understand anything about what you just said.
This is no shock for most of us. CRTs didn't disappear because they were inferior for gaming - they disappeared because they were heavy, bulky, expensive in large sizes and didn't have the razor sharp text preferred for office work compared to LCDs.
Here its simple breakdown for you all:
Crtv gaming monitor has naturally 16xmsaa with 0 input lag 0 response time and the perfect colors and this saves you up a decent video memory so you can play such games at max preset on 1024x768 or 1152x864 on mid gaming gpu with fps boost and offc the image quality looks way better than 4k