Swimming Pool Grounding Repair | Equipotential Bonding Grid Repair
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- In this video you’ll see how an in-ground pool grounding system is connected to the electrical system. Swimming Pool wiring can be lethal if it’s not done CORRECTLY. This video will show you how to make the necessary repairs to a broken equipotential bonding grid and how to make pool wiring safe by bonding conductive materials around the swimming pool.
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Thanks for making these. I like your straightforward approach.
Hey Ron I’m an electrical apprentice right now I’m in my third year and your videos really have taught me a lot and are very helpful especially for young guys learning the trade appreciate it keep up on the content!!
This is such a misunderstood subject down here in Florida. People even inspectors get it wrong. Bonding and grounding are not the same thing. This purpose of to give equipotential bonding between all points of the pool that could become energized. A lot of people here think this line connects to ground back in the panel. It's not the same thing. Thank you for going into detail.
Technically, the bonding wire does (indirectly) connect back to the panel. This is because the bonding wire is connected to the chassis of pool pump, heater, and electrical equipment, and these have their equipment grounding conductor (the ground wire) connected to the chassis of such equipment.
@@SeanFitz-vo4fm correct but I've seen inspectors walk up and say this pump or heater etc has no ground wire. I say did you look inside the actual pump wire terminals and look? Then they will say no it should be attached at the ground lug on outside. I then say you mean bonding lug and bond wire. And they 9/10 will say no it's a ground wire. The terminology is not correct. A ground and bond are different. I have never seen a bond wire actually connect to a subpanel. They usually run under the pool deck to shell rebar in various points. Light niche if applicabale and handrails then back out to equipment. I just get frustrated when a snot nose inspectors come and have no idea what they are even saying. Ground and bond are different terms for a reason. Down here in Florida a lot of ppl misunderstand bonding completely. Its purpose is to bond all points of current to equal parts. Although if something catastrophic were to happen that little 8 gauge copper wire isn't going to save you. lol. I've heard people say it's to protect you from lightning strikes. Yea good luck.
When installing the ground lugs to the metal around the pool do you have to buff the surface of the metal where it is clean so the lug and steel make good connection or does it matter? Thank you for sharing.
I would think it would help and certainly shouldn't hurt. A higher quality metal to metal contact . I would want to remove paint from the surface, then, if needed for looks or to prevent corrosion, maybe spray paint the assembly after it has been installed.
Hopefully they will rebond the fence if they put it back up. Keep up the good work, the videos are informative and interesting, thanks
I don’t think they’ll be putting the fence back in but I could be wrong.
Thanks Ron. Absolutely I enjoy these vids. Keep em coming.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
My pleasure!
Hi Ron, good video. It's not often that a person can find a picture/video of what is underneath the concrete surrounding a pool! I digress. My understanding is that the bonding lug on a pool pump motor is connected only to the metal case of the motor - it is not connected to the electrical ground connection of the motor. If this is correct (I'm not sure completely). Also, when all of the metal objects associated with the pool are connected together (bonded) with code required materials, then all that has really happened by bonding them is that from an electron's point of view, all of those different metal objects (railings, ladders, water, pump motor, heater, etc.) all "look like" a single conductor and there is no opportunity for a voltage difference (potential) to occur between any two or more objects under any conditions. This understanding comes from your comments from a few months ago where you said the bonding grid only gets connected to the lug under the filter/pump and "no grounding rods". Can you confirm my understanding? Thanks! BTW, I'm just a guy, not an electrician.
Connected to the pump, yes. Connected to the equipment grounding conductor, no. No ground rods!!
Great video. Ron you ate saying if there no gfci protection. Before it's not required
Another great video.
Question for you. With an above ground pool what’s the best way to get a stainless steel bolt and nut into the support post for the lug since self tappers aren’t allowed? If the pool is already constructed when you get there how are you supposed to get inside the post?
It's a bit of a pain in the ass but if you take back the vinyl/ plastic cover off of the steel support, at the bottom you'll find steel. What you need to do is drill a hole and use a Tap and die set up. Actually Klein tools sells a hand held threading tool for 6/32, 8/32, 10/24, etc. Or, drill a hole and use a nut and bolt. Hope this helps.
We most def like the content so keep it coming 👊
More to come!
I don't agree with you on the equipotential bonding purpose, the key words are EQUIPOTENTIAL BONDING, so pretty much its purpose is to bring everything to the same potential (voltage) and minimize shock hazards.Even though the OCD is gonna trip and do its job if the water or something else (equipment related with the pool) gets energized, the main goal here is again to reduce the difference of potential in or around the pool areas because at the end is that what kills you.
I agree with that 100%. Did I say something wrong in my video?
Good job Ron.
Ron, Great video as usual! thank you! I'm looking to start installing pool wiring. Do you have a step-by-step?
I'm wondering how many points around the steel wall you are connecting the bonding to? Is it necessary to put a lug on each individual wall panel? Thanks, it is a well done video.
If it’s a conductive frame (4) points and the water too. NEC 680.26
@@electricalron Does a sacrificial anode connected to the bonding satisfy the water aspect?
I find it interesting that while the NEC has very specific mechanical installation requirements, nothing in the NEC that I’ve seen so far requires or even suggests (well, maybe implies) taking electrical measurements after the work is done to verify/confirm that a system is working as intended. Ron, do you take any measurements of your work? For example, in this case it seems to me that continuity and resistance measurements at various points might be a good idea. Also, while those connections you made are great, time always takes a toll. Would you ever consider waterproofing those connections so as to prevent corrosion and failure of the contacting surfaces (between the wire clamp and the pool frame)? Maybe it’s just me but I’d grind off some of that oxidation before installing those clamps.
@@HGlez-el5ch what? Is this just a number you like? There are resistance (ohmic value) charts which list what the ohmic value should be per 1000 feet of a given awg. Then do some math.
I have measured several pools and the ones that make me feel the best are the ones with an equal resistance value no matter what 2 items on the grid you may use as contact points with your meter leads.
Why install insulated wire, Doesn’t it defeat the purpose of equal potential to the surface when you’re walking on the deck? I’m installing one monday and the instructions from the pool company and township is that it has to be bare.
Are you a licensed electrician?
It appears that only the metallic items were bonded in this video and not the ground covering around the perimeter of the pool. Perhaps that's the next video.
The purpose of bonding is that you want all the conductors like the pool water, stairs, pump, pool enclosure, fence to be at the same potential. Let’s say you’re in the pool and the stairs are not bonded and there’s a stray 12 volts on the metal stairs, because the water and the stairs are at a different potential that stray 12 volts could kill you in the pool water..
@@kevonslims7269 And of course the ground or concrete deck around the pool, both of which are conductive.
Awesome video!!
Thank you!
So if the pool pump is GCFI protected any ground fault in the motor itself should trip the GFCI before any current could travel anywhere near the pool. So the bonding around the pool must be to prevent any voltage potential difference in the ground itself in which current could flow between grounding rods from different transformers or possibly metal pipes in the ground around the city?
Correct....almost. It has to do with voltage drop from the main station or sub.
Wow it would scare me not to use a gfci breaker now even though not required back then.
Good Morning Ron
Thanks for the videos and keep up the good work!! I have a question.
Are the split bolt connectors that you are using made for direct burial only?
No, you could use them anywhere.
Could u please make a video regarding which types of connectors u use to connect the 8 AWG copper wires? Also, can u place 3 wires into one connector? Thank you!
The lugs are usually only rated for (1) conductor and they must be rated for direct-burial.
Where did you ground it After the fence was gone
So what you saying binding wire does not go back to electrical panel
It goes back to pump? Just pump or all of the equipment you have for example
If you have pump, heater and filter you just branch off to all equipment?
That's correct. #8 AWG solid COPPER conductor insulated or non-insulated. Use direct-burial rated lugs if used beneath the surface.
You must connect bonding wire to the pump and the heater, and any other electrical equipment. The filter is typically plastic and is not energized so no need to bond the filter.
Thanks for this video Ron. One question for you. When doing the bonding grid I’ve seen a lot of people doing as you did around the pool with just one wire going around the pool and connected at different point to the structure. I’ve also seen people doing a 2 or 3 feet by 12” bonding grid with some pre built grids. In which instance do you use one or the other? Obviously using one cable is much easier but which method would you use for a gunite pool with no decking (ie:just coping and grass around the pool). Thanks.
If it can conduct electricity then it must be bonded.
Hey Ron, are you not required to use #8 bare solid wire to loop around the pool?
Bare or insulated says the 2020 NEC.
Not sure if they used brass pipe for the pool light but I think 30 years ago it was the standard . if so would you not need to bond the pool light with the # 8 wire as the brass pipe provides the bond ?
You would be correct about the brass pipe being used as a raceway and bonding wire.
@@JohnThomas-lq5qp Everything is subject to damage and corrosion . Ron was called to this job because the wires got damaged . How many times the damaged is ignored or not seen and is just covered back up .
@@JohnThomas-lq5qp As they say water and electricity don't mix . Ground fault breakers have been a great benefit to those water related electrical devices . Now I don't remember a time of having a pool where individuals got shocked . We had a above ground pool in the 60s and 70s that never had a problem electrically with none of the protections today . Now I ran into bathtubs with voltages on the drain rings in older houses with the cast iron sewer lines
How come you didn’t use bare copper wire
Because I like to use insulated
Hey Ron, my pool was installed in 2000 and I’m fairly certain I saw the bonding installed before concrete was poured. Now I’m getting low voltage shocks from every metal component around the pool. I’m assuming the concrete will have to be removed in order to find the break in the bond? I’ve also checked the wiring of the 120VAC pool light, which is wired to a GFCI breaker. My concern with the light is the ground wire coming into the breaker box was intentionally left disconnected. Is there a valid case for leaving the ground wire disconnected?
For a pool? Never.
Have you tried testing the EBG with a meter?
@@randykemble yes, I’m not seeing continuity to ground or between parts around the pool. I’ve traced a ground wire from the ground rod to where it goes under the concrete towards the pool
There are a few questions which need to be answered.
1) what kind of “pool”?
2)what kind of deck?
3) how many metal items?
4) what kind of meter
5)how long and what size is your test wire?
Neat n' tidy
That’s important to my company.
The ground wire in my inground swimming pool broke off inside the Niche. What can l do?
Take it out and re-tap the enclosure to bond it.
I would always replace breakers with GFCI for pools. If you are there, then do it. It is not about it working. You don’t wait until someone is shocked to put in GFCI 🤦♂️
You are supposed to be using bare copper on the grid part. How can you create a bonding grid with insulated wire? Also, your explanation of the bonding grid purpose is off. The equipment grounding conductor is the only path it can take to trip the overcurrent device. It will not return back to the source through the ground enough to trip the OCD. It will only disperse the potential evenly all around the pool (UNLESS THE WIRE IS INSULATED). The bonding grid is for NEV potential.
680.26(B)
The parts specified in 680.26(B)(1) through (B)(7) shall be bonded together using solid copper conductors, insulated covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG or with rigid metal conduit of brass or other identified corrosion-resistant metal.
@@electricalron 680.26 (A) (1) (b) although you have a metal forming shell you should STILL use bare wire for your copper ring, especially with pavers over them. If you had a Gunite or non conductive shell you absolutely can't use insulated. But I'm sure you would. They are even talking about changing the code to include the ground areas around the heater and pump...sure can't do that with insulated.
@@electvolt67 don't let your opinion get in the way of what the code says.
@@electricalron I'm not....I bet you use that insulated ground for EVERY pool you do....not code compliant. If you're going to make a video, make sure you know what you are talking about. Are you still waiting for that bonding grid to take that short circuit voltage back to the source through the earth? I hope you're not holding your breath.
I believe It's possible it might because the bonding grid is connected to the pool pump/motor housing. The EGC is also connected to the pool pump/motor housing (internally), at J-box of the motor. @@electvolt67
I thought the wire was supposed to be bare
You need a helper?
I@Ron . I used #8 bare wire copper all around the pool. I see your using a coated #8 why??? Is that necessary or is it just cheaper and still makes code??? Where is the best place to ground the main wire at to the ground rod???
Forget about the ground rods. Equipotential bonding grid gets attached to the lug underneath the filter/ pump motor. Nowhere else. No ground rods.
@@electricalron ok thank you sir