does a bonded heat pump also serve to bond the water? The heat must be transferring to the water via. more than 9" of metal inside the heater, unless I'm misunderstanding how the heater works.
Our River pool has this set up, but for some reason this year, the zinc anode deteriorated in about 2 months. The plate on the bottom is black and orange... What would cause this? Too much salt in the water? Too little salt?
how would you go about bonding an existing pool with concrete deck? Without tearing the deck up to lay a grid. Can you install that pool bond in-line on the return and run the copper to the bonding lug on the pump?
Hello Christian. Greta video. Easiest explanation ever. Can you tell us where to buy the black pipe pool bonding fixture you where holding in video. I didn’t see a link for it. Thanks again.
Hi there, so this bonding has nothing to do with lights inside the pool , or the danger of a electrical problem that one could have related to pool lights? Thank you
The pool bond device he showed is in the plumbing line so it's always in contact with water unless you have a leak that causes the piping to drain. That would be bad and easily found in most cases. The light housing is also "bonded" to the same wire and connected to the ground bar/bus in the pool panel.
Good afternoon I hope all is well. My name is Ryan I’ve got a UA-cam channel where I’m taking a trash compactor and I’m turning it into a swimming pool. Introducing the Swimpactor!! I would love to have a conversation with you about bonding then what do you think the best set up for my pool is. I love your enthusiasm and the abundance of information!! Make On
Hi Ryan! Sounds like an interesting project for sure! You'll need to check your local building codes to be certain, but at the least you'll need to bond all metal that comes in contact with the water and filter system, and that grid should extend at least 3' from the water's edge.
Ok. But how do you VERIFY you actually have equipotential voltage across all bonded components? 1) how do you test the main panel earth voltage as a reference point and 2) how do you subsequently verify all bonded structures have the same voltage ?
Many thanks, very clear. I have a Pond lined with poliethilene liner whose water is recirculated by an external pump( Pentair intelliflo xf). The only metallic parts inside the pond are some 12V lights. Do I need to bond the motor of the pump? And how? Thanks
i belive code clears you if your low voltage lights are made for aquatics. if not you would need to know if the pump is double insulated. most above ground pool pumps are now double insulated meaning the innerworking of the motor are insulated from any metal that is exposed to the elements. if it is double insultated i dont belive you have to attach the pump to you equipotential grid. check me on that
To actually answer your question, the rebar is bonded at four locations typically four corners and the pool contractor leaves the rebar extended in those areas to attach to your bond wire.
Thanks Christian. So the sacrificial anode does 2 things: protects pool metals and puts the water at equipotenial with grab bars, slides etc. Now, one thing I wonder about. Let's say someone had a drill or electrical appliance plugged into a non gfi outlet. If that was dropped into the pool and it wasn't bonded that could be lethal right? Secondly, does the equipontenial bonding system get tied back to the panel's ground buss or is it basically just a ring of solid #8 copper that ties everything together to form no potential difference between the water and any conductive components?
Your pool power should be on a GFCI protected circuit. The bonding is a separate aspect and can help if the GFCI fails to work if the pump or other equipment experiences a fault.
@@16912outdoors , this is absolutely WRONG! The bond wire is connected back to the ground bus/bar in the panel to ensure any stray/dangerous voltage gets back to the main ground/breaker to trip a breaker! This also depends on how many wires you have supplying power to your panel... 3 or 4 wire feed. Call an electrician familiar with Pool Bonding!
If there were any current running through the water, how would that not trip the GFCI ? Is this just a redundancy to the GFCI? Or something else that I am missing? I am really perplexed, I've had an above ground pool for 30+ years & there definitely is no bonding. I am doing repairs currently & if this needs to be done, I should do it now.
This is also to prevent stray voltage on the grounding system provided from the utility from causing mild shocks between the electrical ground and the true earth ground. There is often a small voltage of about 1-10 volts AC between the electrical system ground that is connecting to the pump and your plumbing and the actual earth. As in shoving one lead of a multimeter into the earth and the other on one of your water pipes or a ground prong of an outlet is likely to show a small voltage, even if your main breaker in your house is completely off. The actual size of this voltage depends how well balanced the phases of the utility system are as well as your distance from the substation but it is enough to give an unpleasant tingle in the wet environment of a pool under some conditions. A GFCI would not prevent this. It would only prevent a large shock due to the pump putting 120V into the water. It does nothing to mitigate stray voltage that is usually present in north American power systems. It is also important in the event that something other than a GFCI protected device were to energize the pool.
ua-cam.com/video/j7r1UyuIgss/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/a_nv_Q9WbeE/v-deo.html are interesting info about pool bonding and the source of that stray voltage I was talking about.
@@chrisbauer1925 thank you do spending the time writing such a detailed response. so this is done to prevent the stray voltage (a minor but real concern), and protect in case an extension cord gets dumped in there or something (a major & real concern). have I got a decent handle on that? follow up: I've also got a hot tub(different circuit & physical location), do these same principals apply there too? ie do I need to bond my hot tub too? thanks again, I was having trouble getting a decent answer to my question, your explanation was excellent.
And also you are not thorough. Because where does that PVC plastic bonding piece? Connect to. Does it connected to the pump Or is this just a guess in the game?
I have everything connected even the anode but inspecter is telling me there's a in line pvc with copper in it that I need to connect to the plumbing of the pool however I cannot find what he's talking about anywhere....
Hi! Heard that the grounding of all elements can be done by electrically conductive polymer sheets, but have no idea about the way to do it. Has anybody heard about it? Thanks
Great videos. Several people are telling me to add a saltwater system to my pool instead of the in-line pellet system. We have an inground vinyl liner pool built in 2003. I don't see any sign that the pool itself is bonded, but I'm not sure how to tell. There are two ladders, but they are not touching the water; there is no wire connected to the outside of the ladder. The pool pump and heater are bonded as there is a copper wire connecting them. If I add an in-line anode by the filter and an anode inside the skimmer is that sufficient to convert this to saltwater?
Hi Media Cave! Of course a G is a bunch of money, but this may not be out of the realm of reality depending on how far the electrician had to run wire to get to your pump (material and labor to get there).
The only part on my resume pool that is metal is the wall do I have to put anything in the wall? Also there is something called a Burndy BWB680AG that is made to go into the skimmer I would believe this should suffice
No one seems to have an answer to this question. I am in the same boat, and the only two answers I have heard is to drill into the bottom of the wall near the cove where there is less potential to destroy liner and do it in 4 points. The other answer I heard is that you just bond at one point which is where the screws connect teh wall panel together and then bond the skimmer with a plate. I also heard that you can not touch the wall at all and just have a perimeter around the pool 18-24" and 6" deep with the copper wire buried in that, and then also connect that to pumps and to skimmer water. I am a total newbie but have been researching alot, not sure which solution is correct.
Hi legacychop! With prolonged exposure, sure something bad could happen. But most likely the sensation will be unpleasant enough for you to take countermeasures. Thanks for watching and commenting!
30+ years back I spent Summers cleaning pools. One pool wasn’t bonded/grounded properly. Plus it was difficult to prime the pump and get the return & intake valves opened quickly. That frickin’ pool generated a real sobering jolt. And worse, you couldn’t let go until all those old valves were opened. It sucked. Every morning our crew of six gave the job to the guy most hungover. Living at the beach then it could be damn difficult deciding who deserved the job. Occasionally guys were in such rough shape they volunteered for the wake up jolt. I sure got my fair share.
This guys on crack. Depending on the voltage differential it could be fatal and has been fatal. Your bonding inspection is the most critical part of the entire installation. And by the way some people will say my pool is not bonded correctly so we just turn off the pumps when we swim. We have tested pools with the entire pool panel de energized from the main panel and had life threatening voltages in the pool water coming from the street power through the house neutral into the pool. Un bonded pools are death traps. This guy is making like it’s no big deal just a little buzz? He has no business posting videos about pool electric. Let him change your liner and tell him to have a nice day and consult an electrical contractor.
I wish you explained in more details some examples of fault currents
My swimming pool was bonded, but there’s a small leak near the skimmer where it was bonded. How do I fix it?
That was the best explanation of pool bonding ever!
Glad it was helpful!
does a bonded heat pump also serve to bond the water? The heat must be transferring to the water via. more than 9" of metal inside the heater, unless I'm misunderstanding how the heater works.
Our River pool has this set up, but for some reason this year, the zinc anode deteriorated in about 2 months. The plate on the bottom is black and orange... What would cause this? Too much salt in the water? Too little salt?
how would you go about bonding an existing pool with concrete deck? Without tearing the deck up to lay a grid. Can you install that pool bond in-line on the return and run the copper to the bonding lug on the pump?
Did you rip up the concrete to fix your pool bond? We are about to do this and it isn’t cheap :(
Never seen that fitting before. Thanks
Hello Christian. Greta video. Easiest explanation ever. Can you tell us where to buy the black pipe pool bonding fixture you where holding in video. I didn’t see a link for it. Thanks again.
Thank you sir, complex issue made simple, salute!
Hi there, so this bonding has nothing to do with lights inside the pool , or the danger of a electrical problem that one could have related to pool lights? Thank you
Very informative
Is there still a risk of electrical shock if you go into a soft sided pool with the pump off while you're swimming?
Great Video. Thanks.
Doesn't the water bonding device need to be below the pool water level so when the pump is off the device is still in the water?
The pool bond device he showed is in the plumbing line so it's always in contact with water unless you have a leak that causes the piping to drain. That would be bad and easily found in most cases. The light housing is also "bonded" to the same wire and connected to the ground bar/bus in the pool panel.
Good afternoon I hope all is well. My name is Ryan I’ve got a UA-cam channel where I’m taking a trash compactor and I’m turning it into a swimming pool. Introducing the Swimpactor!! I would love to have a conversation with you about bonding then what do you think the best set up for my pool is. I love your enthusiasm and the abundance of information!! Make On
Hi Ryan! Sounds like an interesting project for sure! You'll need to check your local building codes to be certain, but at the least you'll need to bond all metal that comes in contact with the water and filter system, and that grid should extend at least 3' from the water's edge.
Ok. But how do you VERIFY you actually have equipotential voltage across all bonded components? 1) how do you test the main panel earth voltage as a reference point and 2) how do you subsequently verify all bonded structures have the same voltage ?
Many thanks, very clear. I have a Pond lined with poliethilene liner whose water is recirculated by an external pump( Pentair intelliflo xf). The only metallic parts inside the pond are some 12V lights. Do I need to bond the motor of the pump? And how?
Thanks
i belive code clears you if your low voltage lights are made for aquatics. if not you would need to know if the pump is double insulated. most above ground pool pumps are now double insulated meaning the innerworking of the motor are insulated from any metal that is exposed to the elements. if it is double insultated i dont belive you have to attach the pump to you equipotential grid. check me on that
Must rebar in concrete pools also be bonded and grounded? If so, how? Thank you very much!
Bonding lugs. The cage gets bonded and the deck gets bonded. Both will need an inspection👍
To actually answer your question, the rebar is bonded at four locations typically four corners and the pool contractor leaves the rebar extended in those areas to attach to your bond wire.
Thanks Christian. So the sacrificial anode does 2 things: protects pool metals and puts the water at equipotenial with grab bars, slides etc. Now, one thing I wonder about. Let's say someone had a drill or electrical appliance plugged into a non gfi outlet. If that was dropped into the pool and it wasn't bonded that could be lethal right? Secondly, does the equipontenial bonding system get tied back to the panel's ground buss or is it basically just a ring of solid #8 copper that ties everything together to form no potential difference between the water and any conductive components?
Crazy question, but how do you test pool is properly bonded and grounded? how about running power (lights + pump) through GFI?
Your pool power should be on a GFCI protected circuit. The bonding is a separate aspect and can help if the GFCI fails to work if the pump or other equipment experiences a fault.
Good job!
Good info. Thank you.
Thanks by tutorial very important!!.
If I have a metal ladder, why do I need a pool bond? Doesn’t that ladder have more then 9 sq inch of metal?
Thank you! Thank you! It fixed my problem!!!!
Glad it helped!
Was it Expensive to fix?
Why would you only get a little shock and not a elatitution
Great vid. After all metal components and pool water are hooked up, does the bonding wire connect back up to your sub-panel's grounding bar?
No put a ground rod in at the pool and connect the pool bonding to it
Got it thanks !!
Never had to put a ground rod in always just bond everything together thats near or part of the pool. Its not grounding its bonding
@@16912outdoors , this is absolutely WRONG! The bond wire is connected back to the ground bus/bar in the panel to ensure any stray/dangerous voltage gets back to the main ground/breaker to trip a breaker! This also depends on how many wires you have supplying power to your panel... 3 or 4 wire feed. Call an electrician familiar with Pool Bonding!
See my comment below please!
If there were any current running through the water, how would that not trip the GFCI ? Is this just a redundancy to the GFCI? Or something else that I am missing?
I am really perplexed, I've had an above ground pool for 30+ years & there definitely is no bonding. I am doing repairs currently & if this needs to be done, I should do it now.
This is also to prevent stray voltage on the grounding system provided from the utility from causing mild shocks between the electrical ground and the true earth ground. There is often a small voltage of about 1-10 volts AC between the electrical system ground that is connecting to the pump and your plumbing and the actual earth. As in shoving one lead of a multimeter into the earth and the other on one of your water pipes or a ground prong of an outlet is likely to show a small voltage, even if your main breaker in your house is completely off. The actual size of this voltage depends how well balanced the phases of the utility system are as well as your distance from the substation but it is enough to give an unpleasant tingle in the wet environment of a pool under some conditions. A GFCI would not prevent this. It would only prevent a large shock due to the pump putting 120V into the water. It does nothing to mitigate stray voltage that is usually present in north American power systems. It is also important in the event that something other than a GFCI protected device were to energize the pool.
ua-cam.com/video/j7r1UyuIgss/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/a_nv_Q9WbeE/v-deo.html are interesting info about pool bonding and the source of that stray voltage I was talking about.
@@chrisbauer1925 thank you do spending the time writing such a detailed response.
so this is done to prevent the stray voltage (a minor but real concern), and protect in case an extension cord gets dumped in there or something (a major & real concern). have I got a decent handle on that?
follow up: I've also got a hot tub(different circuit & physical location), do these same principals apply there too? ie do I need to bond my hot tub too?
thanks again, I was having trouble getting a decent answer to my question, your explanation was excellent.
Is there a way to check if an inground pool built in 1973 was bonded and grounded?
Likely it’s not - pool service professional
thats a split bolt. a bonding lug is what is screwed into the heater,pump motor, etc
Do vinyl pools require bonding?
And also you are not thorough. Because where does that PVC plastic bonding piece? Connect to. Does it connected to the pump Or is this just a guess in the game?
Great video ! Helped a lot
I have everything connected even the anode but inspecter is telling me there's a in line pvc with copper in it that I need to connect to the plumbing of the pool however I cannot find what he's talking about anywhere....
He is telling me that the anode alone is not enough and so won't pass my inspection...
There should be a copper coil coming off the bottom of the anode. That gets connected to the ground loop. 👍
Hi! Heard that the grounding of all elements can be done by electrically conductive polymer sheets, but have no idea about the way to do it. Has anybody heard about it? Thanks
Great videos. Several people are telling me to add a saltwater system to my pool instead of the in-line pellet system. We have an inground vinyl liner pool built in 2003. I don't see any sign that the pool itself is bonded, but I'm not sure how to tell. There are two ladders, but they are not touching the water; there is no wire connected to the outside of the ladder. The pool pump and heater are bonded as there is a copper wire connecting them. If I add an in-line anode by the filter and an anode inside the skimmer is that sufficient to convert this to saltwater?
I am in the same situation
what size ground wire around pool 24x16 ingrpound ?????
8 solid
Electrician quoted me 1,100 dollars to connect my pump... I’m like huh?
Hi Media Cave! Of course a G is a bunch of money, but this may not be out of the realm of reality depending on how far the electrician had to run wire to get to your pump (material and labor to get there).
Agree, he did say he does not dig trenches, and that I would have to prep that then he would do the work...lol
@@mediacave6935 was he wearing a three piece suit?
Michael Was you would think. I let him go, I did the work myself. Got shocked once. Luckily I was grounded.
What happens when you have a resin pool..
i wanna know this as well, thanks
All metal components still need to be bonded.
@@RiverPools so you have to drill into the wall instead of columns?
The only part on my resume pool that is metal is the wall do I have to put anything in the wall? Also there is something called a Burndy BWB680AG that is made to go into the skimmer I would believe this should suffice
No one seems to have an answer to this question. I am in the same boat, and the only two answers I have heard is to drill into the bottom of the wall near the cove where there is less potential to destroy liner and do it in 4 points. The other answer I heard is that you just bond at one point which is where the screws connect teh wall panel together and then bond the skimmer with a plate. I also heard that you can not touch the wall at all and just have a perimeter around the pool 18-24" and 6" deep with the copper wire buried in that, and then also connect that to pumps and to skimmer water. I am a total newbie but have been researching alot, not sure which solution is correct.
Zinc Anode
" its really not that bad of an experience, really" LOL nah only like the risk of death!
Hi legacychop! With prolonged exposure, sure something bad could happen. But most likely the sensation will be unpleasant enough for you to take countermeasures. Thanks for watching and commenting!
30+ years back I spent Summers cleaning pools. One pool wasn’t bonded/grounded properly. Plus it was difficult to prime the pump and get the return & intake valves opened quickly.
That frickin’ pool generated a real sobering jolt. And worse, you couldn’t let go until all those old valves were opened. It sucked. Every morning our crew of six gave the job to the guy most hungover. Living at the beach then it could be damn difficult deciding who deserved the job. Occasionally guys were in such rough shape they volunteered for the wake up jolt. I sure got my fair share.
This guys on crack. Depending on the voltage differential it could be fatal and has been fatal. Your bonding inspection is the most critical part of the entire installation. And by the way some people will say my pool is not bonded correctly so we just turn off the pumps when we swim. We have tested pools with the entire pool panel de energized from the main panel and had life threatening voltages in the pool water coming from the street power through the house neutral into the pool. Un bonded pools are death traps. This guy is making like it’s no big deal just a little buzz? He has no business posting videos about pool electric. Let him change your liner and tell him to have a nice day and consult an electrical contractor.
If the pool is made with wood and nails sitting in concrete blocks I still have to ground it
if it has an electic pump for filtration yes.
@@matthewlewellen6516 cool thanks
The two minutes thing was dumb...smh
Really? Dumb? thanks for the feedback. 3 minutes? or drop it all together? What about the info itself? useful or no?
your 2 minutes was up before you started a timer
That is not a bonding lug it is a split bolt
used to bond wiring. getting picky.
I can do it in less than 2 min. Hire an electrician!!
Pool bonding 101 would imply "how to bond your pool" . Buddy is just try sell items. I grant the 1 dislike.