RUNNING A REFLUX STILL STEP BY STEP PART 1
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- Опубліковано 20 лют 2020
- This channel is designed to offer insight and background on the science, art and practice of making alcohol based products at home.
Lin for the apps: oaa.app.link/launch-hub-8b055...
George, these videos are great. I'm an old chemical engineer who has been shining for a few years. I built my still from an old stock pot and scrap-copper and I'm self-taught, so my product has never been very good, until I started watching your videos. You explain the distillation science very well and your tips and tricks are wonderful. Thank you for both the education and entertainment!
Sir George. Watching your video session is more like having a conversation with you in person. What are you giving away is the profound experience earned by research, experiment, trials, , errors corrections and success through the years. The way you talk. I just simply love it. You are so frank and very friendly and very very informative in every little detail you explain. When you say "you follow me ". Yes Sir, absolutely i follow you in every bit. You really helped me a lot to correct my misconception about home brew. You are the man. Thank you so much.May God bless you Sir. Take care.
George your awesome !! Its so great to have a seasoned pro showing you every little detail so well . This is like a free Distillation college course ! Im learning so much from these videos ....i just cant thank you enough . Really . Take care.
This is the video set I’ve been looking for.
I understand much about refluxing but you are just the man to fill in the gaps.
Appreciate this very much.
Good stuff and best wishes.👍🥃
25:45 If you increase the cooling of the dephlegmator (i.e. the partial condenser), the column's number of theoretical plates (and so the separation, and so the proof) is gonna INCREASE, NOT DROP !
I've been in this hobby for over two years. Read the entire "flute" tread on forum. Spent months of doing research. Built a couple of columns including a 4 plate modular column with 5500w heater....
But i still watch your videos from start to finish to absorb the information, every single one of them!
Thank you!
Why would your proof drop if you have too much water cooling your reflux condenser?
I don't know why he thinks that either. The cooler the top of the reflux column, the greater the reflux, and lesser the amount of vapor making it to the condenser. The higher the reflux, the higher the ABV of the distillate, and the lower the total volume of distillate.@@kevind7617
George - this is awesome! This is what I needed to watch before I reached out to you last month! Thank you!
This is the VERY FIRST video on distilling. I knew absolutely nothing. Really great video. Very understandable. Thanks!
Thanks for the excellent explanation on all that George, every time I watch your channel I learn more about about this great hobby.
Thanks George, it totally makes sense. Specially about chasing my temperature.
George, I'm just getting into this hobby after all grain beer brewing for 42 years and your videos are invaluable. I've built my own reflux still and you sharing your knowledge and experience, as you do, is a fantastic resource. Thank you so much.
Glad to help
Thank you Guru George The best info I got was do it right the first time ( which is also a great rule for life ) You have made the controls of reflux sound a lot clearer. Also a big thanks for taking all the BS out and using common sense, science and logic!!!
This was the most informative video on distilling I have seen yet. It is the what that is explained and not the why, which is most beneficial and what you did well
That’s the best clarification of the difference between a pot and reflux I have seen ~24:00
Just watched this again after a year. So clear and so much information I had forgotten. Thanks George I hope you are enjoying your break away from UA-cam.
I am an insulator by trade for 25+ years and here is the conversion for insulation on pipe.
If it is a copper column then your insulation will be 1/8” bigger than the pipe.
If it is a 2” copper pipe you need 2-1/8 pipe insulation
If it is other than copper then it will be the same size. 2” stainless is 2” insulation
George dude!(sorry to be so familiar when I don't know you)
I'm getting my stuff together to build my first reflux still and you are one of my goto sites, along with Alan Manning. Thank you for your sensible, down to earth approach to home distillation, you are teaching me so much. Every day is a school day, and you help make learning easy. By the time I've watched one of your uploads, it's like I've always known it. Thank you again Sir. 💓
Good morning George thanks for the info have a great day! Cheers!!
Thank you so much for taking the time to educate us on home distilling. I love your videos. Thank you for showing me the ropes. Look forward to a new video or a farewell sign off
You are good teacher man ! Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge
Thanks for at last answering why a stripping run, I see the point now (and as I’m only going to have a small still I can just concentrate on getting it done right 1st time!!) As ever great stuff, you give me just enough information to think about and get straight in my own head ...
That was awesome George. I use the Hoochware app myself. I agree, you really don't need copper unless you just want to use it but you can still see the point on both sides. I often used stainless steel mesh and ceramic raschig rings mainly because they are much easier to clean than copper is. Marbles in the column are really good to and are also easy to clean.
Back in the day you'd be known as the White Board Bandit. Awesome as always. Thanks for the knowledge.
I have learned so much from you.
I'm definitely no expert on copper. Ive heard it will hang on to fusel oils while ur running. Who knows. Appreciate all your knowledge and videos George. Ty
Very informative and enjoyable run slow n steady = better products in short
thanks for all information you're perfect
Appreciate this one!
Very well explained George....got my head round a few things then....
Great video and explanation George
Awesome video George just in time I received the last piece for my new build and will get all put together tomorrow and make my first run on it Sunday. Thank You for all your help and Happy Happy stillin.
Just curious to how your run went? If you got it to run...
@@mikebullard1797 it went great Mike thanks for asking Georges information helped a great deal and I finished with three gallons of 185 proof neutral a gallon of which I split into two one gallon jars then filled the rest with raspberries when it finishes I'll cut it down and add some cream mix from still spirits my wife loves it. Happy Wife Happy Life.
I used 3 meters of copper tubing kwarter inch in a coil and does a great job on the highest point of my column
Really informative, nice setup and thanks for taking the time to do it. May I observe... brevity is the soul of video education.
I worked at a copper company as a young bloke and smoked while working and made my smoke taste sweet. Very interesting
Enjoyed the video George. Liked the guy's comment that his neighbor was passed out on the living room floor. Have to sneak up on that rocket fuel.
Yehaaaa ... the white board. I love the white board.
I've worked as a process operator for 30+ years and under stand what your saying BUT!!! As the case with most operators, I had to learn by on job training. If any supervisor or Sr operator could have ever explained the way your explaining years ago, could have made life so much easier. I know some operators with 30+ years would have trouble following you on this. What is your background?
You should give classes
Thanks
M L Rogers Pasadena, TX
Great video series George. Would like to request, as have others, to make a video on the water chilling system (WCS). I have tank water and will experience ambient temperature issues throughout the year. I would like to make a WCS to have some consistency in my runs. Many thanks, Jim,
Good example of a CM (cooling management) reflux still, I prefer VM (vapor management) your outlet goes below the reflux condenser (which is always full blast), top open (the reflux condenser knocks everything down) and a valve to the product condenser is closed until equilibrium happens in the column. Then you open the valve.
CM has a lot to do with proximity to the reflux condenser, some 80% vapor may get through while some 90% vapor may get knocked down just because its flowing up the wrong part of the column. With VM you make sure your highest % is at the top where your outlet is.
Still good presentation, this my two cents.
Also I'm killing time on my moms phone so I won't be replying to any comments, for more information study hdforums.
Insulating the boiler is for efficiency, don't insulate the column it'll just reduce your reflex. I'd only ever insulate the column in pot still mode when trying to maximise taste transfer.
I was first interested in running stills when I was at home bored and watching Moonshiners on History channel. I thought I was doing something wrong whenever I ran 15 gallons of mash and only got 5 gallons of the home brew. Turns out I (mostly) accidentally got it wright. For them it was running a gallon every 10 minutes where I was at a gallon after 5 hours. They had to run it through 4 or 5 times to get that 50% but I ran it once to average 50% (it'd start at 90-95 percent and I would run it til about 30 percent and the average usually came to just a bit over 50%).
But some things I did learn along the way that most people don't mention.
1. If you keep the temp below water boiling, then you can get a higher content product (even if it does run slower). But the more alcohol you pull out, the less volume of liquid you have so itsgoing to hit boiling temp faster, so be ready to adjust the heat often.
2. Cold water is important! You can never explain the taste of "burnt alcohol" but once you taste it, you never forget it.
3. Always call it a water distiller. Your lawyer will thank you if you get in trouble down the line.
4. Some states allow a gallon or two to be with you as back up fuel so you don't get stranded. Couldn't tell you how many times a week I would have a couple jugs in my backseat get stolen. They would be sitting there as I walked into the store. Come out and see they were gone. Must have been clumsy thieves because they kept dropping hundred dollar bills whenever they broke into the car. Maybe someday I will lock the doors.
5. Be mindful of where you distill your flavored liquids. Alcohol IS flammable and I have seen and almost experienced first hand what a flash can do. Don't put anyone's lives on the line. Spirits can be fun, but don't let them make you the devil.
Thanks George
The issue with copper is that while there aren't added sulfites ir sulfates, there is always going to be some amount if hydrogen sulfide (H²S) and SO² (sulfur Dioxoide) produced by the yeast during fermentstion. These compounds can cause bitterness, harshness, a dry or hot mouth feel, headaches, hangovers, etc.
The sulfuric gasses coming to contact with copper results in a reaction that causes crystalline (basically a salt) copper sulphide/curriculum sulphide to form on the surface of the copper.
Basically, the copper helps to filter our the naturally occurring sulfur compounds in your wash or mash, that are produced by the yeast, by reacting with the sulfur. Thus preventing that sulfur from staying in a gaseous vapor and then condensing into your product. The SO² a d H²S won't necessarily all be in your fireshots where you have the acetates, acetones, acetaldehydes etc etc.
Just Google "sulfuric reaction with copper".
So while you, personally, may bebke to make a finished product with an all stainless build? That is indistinguishable from the same wash run through a copper still... it's one of those "you you want to work smarter or work harder? You can let naturally occurring chemicals bongs help filter this out, our you can try and put in the leg work and elbow grease to filter it, isolate it or neutralize it after the fact".
That and many people don't understand what causes the production of these unwanted/unwelcome cogeners in the first place. Many people don't use a well balanced recipe, or DO use high temp fermentation, or Poor temp stability during fermentations... these things can all cause stress to the yeast, which in turn, produces more of these unwanted compounds.
And yest strain also plays a role. Some yeast naturally produce a lot of sulfur compounds during fermentation, some produce less, some produce nearly none.
So while I could make a sugar wash that's got proper nutrients, is insulated or in a temperature stable environment with onky a couple degrees +/- if the ambient temperature, the fermentation is taking place at around 70F, I let it ferment for 2 weeks or more instead of just 7 days.... it IS possible to make a wash that you can run, pull your fireshots, collect everything else and have it have very little taste or mouth feel. Yes, that is a possibility... nut a very high improbability.
You don't HAVE to have copper, but it can help. Especially if one is making fast, cheap and rough fermentations.
I absolutely love your myth busting.
Its surprising how many times "common knowlage" proves to be false or irrelevant.
Unfortunately in the medical profession there is as much as anywhere, I know because I run a charity for people with a rare Metabolic condition. . However totally false information is readily available on any conspiracy site or anti Vaxer's blog / video / post. ;)
Keep smiling and keep up the simple straight accurate information I am learning loads! ;)
Miss you George. Hope you are doing good and I hope to see you back again on UA-cam.
Best wishes from Norway
Wife has a ChiliPad Sleep system she don't like... Bad for her good for me???
... small cooling and heating unit I thought might be re-purposed... to expensive to not use IMHO. Not sure of the pumps ability to push uphill a ton.. need to test.. seems like this may work 55-115F 13-46C Great as a heat blanket for fermenting and the cooling should do the trick for condensing???? - if that don't work I have a AC unit so I will apply what you shared regarding the video on the AC cooling system!!! Thanks George!
to a 2inches collum you need 6,28 inches of that insolation. ( D x Pi = is the circumference )
As always great content. Can you do a video on your dremel tool work station? What a great idea and set up. Thanks.
I add those ceramic saddles to my boiler it helps dissipating the heat from the elements so it doesn't burn my wash lol.
Happiness is Distilling!
Sir, you my friend have a direct connection with my tin foil hat, or lack there of. Lol I just got done with half, of my forth run, 3.5 gl pressure cooker pot still. But I changed my travel process, I used a 3/4 inch flex tube 36inches long, with about a 20 in rise, same mash as last, but threw in 4 lbs of brown sugar, and a can of coconut flavored oil and 10 drops of banana extract, Yes, there was a bit of gelatinous stuff that worried me at first, and sucked too clean up after. But it came out tasting like a Caribbean style gin. It ran off in about 2 hours, produce 3 pints of rocket fuel, and my neighbor is passed out on my living room floor.
Thank you for you're passion for your informative videos, legitimate advice, and answering my questions about the hobby, about an hour after l figure out what I need too know. Its truly amazing ! How ever you know exactly what I need too continue my adventures in self medicamanagement,
I applaud you!
I thank you!
And you sir, are my fricking hero !!!!! 👏 😎
LOL "wont you be my NAYBRRR"
Thank you
George, monitor the column discharge temp to determine where to set the reflux cooling flow, not proof or output rate. Try to keep it stable for as long as possible to get a bit of control over the fraction. So, to target largely fores and heads, keep the temp below 170 for as long as possible. Production should diminish to almost nothing. Then, back off the cooling to let the temp come up to about 175. Use the input temp to maintain a slow, steady output that you can control with the reflux condenser; like keeping one foot on the gas and the other on the brake.
If you hold a steady column temp the output will diminish; it will be necessary to slowly increase column temp up until you get to about 188-190. All the while you taste and smell and when it starts to turn unpleasant you can stop collection, or keep segregated samples, and just let it go as far as you wish into the tails to save for feints.
The trouble is in controlling based on temp alone as it is VERY prone to overshooting. To deal with this I added a little tiny flowmeter and much smaller valve so I can actually gauge the cooling flow to reflux. Additionally I found it much easier to monitor (for control) the discharge temperature of my reflux water rather than the vapor temp. Cooling control of the vapor has a reputation for being squirrelly and the aforementioned two steps have totally remediated that condition.
Well done. I like this explanation.
The use of the pid sort of lets you reverse this by keeping the cooling at a relatively constant rate and then varying the input power to to hold a steady temp at the output. Bottom line is that by holding a constant vapor outlet temp for as long as practical you reflux most of what wants to come off at a higher point. Sort of squeezing the sponge on a selective basis. When you stop (Nearly)outputting at a given temp, you’ve essentially removed that particular fraction.
The catch is that the division isn’t quite that clean, so you can only get most of it on a practical basis by this method and you really wind up with a controlled smearing. And that’s fine or this would be a lousy still to make whiskey with.
Hey George! Your videos are great, thanks! As far as the copper mesh goes, my understanding is that it helps increase the final proof. As water and ethanol travels up the column, I would think the water would be more likely to condense on the mesh and drop back down. Wouldn't it work the same way as the marbles and ceramic bits but with a lot more surface area?
It does initially but after the temperature balances it is only providing more surface area for the vapor to travel over.
It helps but does not really increase proof. The process control is what affects the proof not the packing.
George
George, I love you so much as a mentor and as a human.
I can tell you this about copper;
I can detect the sulphur compounds, whatever they are, in the nose, so strongly that I cannot drink a drop made without running through copper.
I can 100% pick out products not run through a reflux that haven't used copper in the vapor path.
However, I cannot say the same for something run through a reflux as my only experience use on pot stills.
That's all I know. Maybe the reflux makes the difference. I'm not sure
Thanks. You have a very special sense of compounds. I cannot detect any difference at all but still hold out on the prospect that something is happening.
@@BarleyandHopsBrewing I do have a fairly sensitive sense of smell.
I cannot drink jack daniels because of the acetones. Very loose cuts IMO.
I met my neighbor down the way, and he also agreed that bluefish distilling white dog out of colorado springs is so sulphuric he couldn't drink it.
Strangely, that smell is only on the nose for me. I've never tasted it.
Thanks for the response. I'm going to be studying this video. Just ordered a 4 plate, 4" perforated flute column and a 26 gallon fermenter
I love you George! 💖🥃💋
George, thank you for settling the copper debate! as in let's agree to disagree. i don't think it makes any difference, but it doesn't hurt anything to throw a roll of copper in the column to silence the trolls.
Exactly
Why not put the water control valve on the outlet? Every still i see the cooling water is throttled on the inlet... but at low flow rates it can cause air to be trapped and water flow is not constant.
In my industry water cooled heat exchangers usually control on the outlet.
There is only one small issue... cant close the valve off or it might be turning that tubing into a boiler... which it isnt. Just need to keep it cracked open a tad.
Aluminum coated bubble wrap is available in rolls at Home Depot. I just wrap it around, cut it to size and tape it together with aluminum muffler tape. Probably duct tape would be fine.
Let your conscious be your guide
If you put your foot inside
You wish you left your well enough alone
When you got hell to pay
Put the truth on layaway
And blame it on that old
Crazy Bone
John Prine ❤
Your still is very similar to mine , just wondering if exhaust wrap will work for insulating the column? Any suggestions
Hello George,
Thanks again for the great information.
I was wondering about the direction of water flow the head of a cross tube reflux still.
It seems common convention is for the water to run from the bottom to the top as in a Liebig condenser.
Shouldn’t it actually flow from top to bottom?
If the cold enters the bottom won’t it be creating a “wall” of cold then fading where as if the cold was at the top the rising molecules would experience more of a deceleration?
Thanks
George, can you link to your video that talks about getting and setting the app up? Awesome content btw!
Copper is used because stainless steel is relatively new to the market. Copper was available and a great conductor of heat. It is easier to shape and can be silver braized or soldered to make water tight jointery. Stainless is great, if you want Copper great but it's going to empty more of your wallet and take longer to clean. Oh and it will react with our desireable flavinoids but I haven't found any tasteable differences.
do you have a video to explain how to do the cooler system ?
Thank you George I like you teachings. Just want to know if over heating can explode the device. Can this same system be aplyed when refining crude to design.
George I was wondering why you can't use an aluminum pot to cook a mash or make a still?
Sulfiet as we call it, is prohibited being used to prevent meat from turning brown, simply because it's bad for your health. Still it is in wine. In the good old days we used tons of it.
"I'll use 10, it works better." Yep, decimal system ;-)
Love a pot still
That thing looks like a mad scientist built it.
2-9/16 is the diamiter of the hole needed to pass 2" pvc. Stainless is probably a bit smaller OD.
Hi George,
Should I connect the input water to the topmost crosstube or lowest one in the reflux part?
Have you done a video on your water chiller? I would love to see a build video of some kind. I've always wanted a self contained water chiller system.
It looks like an ex pub / bar beer cooler to me. Simple to get hold of where ever a bar is being refitted, for a few $ £ or € notes ;)
Im currently running a brewmaster ice master 4 glycol chiller on my 30 gal reflux and im very disappointed 3.5 hours in im at 120 degrees f way to hot i start off at about 10 degrees lol wish I could keep at around 50 degrees any ideas
At timestamp 3:22 you should have told the viewers to google "what is the circumference of a 2 inch pipe". Multiple answers pop up along with the actual formula to do the math themself if they wish to.
The circumference (C) of a circle based on the Diameter (D) is given by the equation
C = πD [Circumference = Pi x Diameter
where π is the standard constant (≈ 3.14159)
Missed seeing your vids!!! Hope all is well!!!!!!!
George is there a chart that you can go buy. That will tell you how much water ethanol in your finished product at what proof/ ABV THANKS BUD
Hi need advice my wash has finished and I have cleaned it with turbo clear it's ready for distilling but waiting for my new still can i siphon it into sealed containers till my new still arrives or will it need chucking away
Hey George, theoretically speaking. Is there a specific temperature in the reflux circulation water that we can control? If we had 170°F water circulating all the time will that work for a more consistent reflux? Maybe find that perfect place where it is flavorless or that sweet spot where just enough flavor passes.
Just my opinion...May be more effective to just adjust water flow to match proof and production rate instead of trying to control the temperature of the water.
To properly run this type of refluxer, you need it to be surrounded with raching rings or equivalent for proper reflux. It will not reflux with no packing.
Slowly is better with a nice steady stream
Can i put a heat element up through the bottom of my kettle because it is insulated and i have legs that are attached to the kettle
One question, if the reflux column is equiped with a precooler, wahet is the appropriate set point of the temperature we have to obtain in the precooler?
George how can one get all the water out of the alcohol? i am looking to use it to remove the oils off of cannibas plants for medical purposes! They usually use isopropyl alcohol but I want to use a more animal grade product. Do you have a email?
nerver mind found it : D thx
On the Copper issue ... I do a lot of precious metals extraction from raw ore, and there's A LOT OF SULFUR COMPOUNDS (-ates, -ites, -ides) .. Every gold miner knows that S (sulfur) needs lots of heat/energy to join a compound .. you gotta heat it to temps even higher than aluminum melting point → there's no way this kinda distillation is bonding S (clean S, or any of it's oxidated states) to Cu (copper), not without some powerful acids or bases .. Exothermic properties of those reactions can stop any argument by someone saying it's bonding the S+Cu in the column or anywhere else in the apparatus - the heat of reaction could flash the vapors ...
Remember that for thousands of years "Doctors" believed that pandemic illness were caused by witches, myasthenia etc.. point is that ancient concepts and explanations ARE NOT always accurate when viewed through the eyes of modern science ..
If there's a chemist or metallurgist that reads this and can explain AND cite references how Sulfur is able to form Cu compounds at 180F I ask that you please post it in reply to this .. Until that day
✊🎤⤵️ **drops the mic**
Mr George. Fellow Texan here. Been watching you and think you are spot on with just about all you go over. I haven't had the time watch all your yet so I have a question. What's the A/C all about? It gets humid down there, but having it in the shop? I suspect you've harnessed the power of A/C for some sort of condenser. Can't finish this video yet so I hope for my sake you dont explain it here. Great info sir. I really enjoy your videos. -B
Sir, is it safe to use Ammonium chloride for enhancing any fermentation?. and if yes then what should be the percentage per litter for sugar wash I also want you to make an appisode on that topic too.
If you have non self sticking rubber cement is the way to go for insulation
Do you have to worry about the 3 inch pipe column getting to hot for the insulation?
Could someone offer an explanation on how excess waterflow to the reflux chamber drop proof along with production? I understand decrease in production but the drop in proof confuses me. My intuition leads me to think that excess waterflow would causes excess condensation and decrease in production. I just don’t follow why that causes a decrease in proof.
Cheers, awesome video!
LOL! I asked the same question. I feel I'm missing something. No one has answered yet. Guess we'll both have to wait!
I really must disagree that doing a strip run is “running incorrectly”. Sure, I can run a wash strictly as a slow reflux, and it’ll make some fine spirit. Especially if I start with something already pretty clean (I’ve had access to some commercially “prefiltered” neutral malt base that does not need a strip run) but there are reasons to make a strip run first. Personally, I prefer to harvest the bulk of my wash and do a flat-out strip run deep into the tails. With my fermentation method this leaves some weak wash that wouldn’t fit into the still pot. This weak wash then gets run with the previous low wines and any previous feints as a controlled reflux, spirit run. Yes, this is partially a volume management method, but more importantly a method to uniformly distill a larger batch from a primary and secondary racking method of the wash.
I’ve found better flavor characteristics from this ‘split’ method than by simply trying to equalize the total wash volume beforehand and then simply dividing it between two reflux runs. Plus the material handling is actually much easier.
Therein lies the beauty in a column like that; versatility. Detune it and run as a pot still for certain high flavor washes. Or pack it and go full reflux for neutral or at least closer to it. What is correct is more dependent upon the end goal.
my primary colon 42.4mm is that okey cross tube 10mm ?
George, where do you get the insulation for the column? i have a 2" stainless and i have tried to find what you have and i have had no luck! let me know if you would. im in canada if it matters...
OOPS Scrap that.... i missed the explanation that you put 2 together..... sorry...
Disregard, and HUGE Thanks for all your work and Knowledge!
what about equilibrium of the reflux you need more cooling water so nothing passes
and your temps will go up and down
Hi George, could you provide the name of the app you referred to in this video, sounds really good.
Did he say where that still column came from? Also, he said that copper wasn't needed because sulfates or sulfates aren't present, but copper has a role in ethyl carbomate levels in the distillate. If he hasn't, I hope he addresses that in an episode.
Hi George!! Who sings the song for your opening episode?? Thanks Buddy.
Paul. G.
England.
I'm only getting 7 .5 cups from a 5 gallon wash on my reflux still. It has 2 inch column. Is that normal? It's a moonshine distiller dual purpose
If you only have 110 outlets can you hook a PID to a hot plate.
Where can I get build instructions for that cooler with the a/c on it?
Lol George has a video on it. He wouldn't leave us hanging like that, the man loves his toys and he's happy to teach us how. I'll be making a 120 volt PID pretty soon and following his instructions to the letter. Then the cooler next.