dcs world bad fps? - best video card & best cpu 4090 performance fail in busy servers
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- ❎❎ITS FIXED -- or being fixed! • dcs world - new update... MULTITHREADING IS HERE ❎❎15 FPS on RTX 3090 4090 and it is NOT the video card! Dcs world may have really bad fps sometimes - what is the fix? Like enigma cold war... Multithreading is key, Should you get the best video card or cpu on the market? Nvidia, or AMD? But what if I tell you it may not even help at all. this may be all up to the simulation within the DCS itself. the AI is what is causing your lag and performance drops. Ever notice how when bombs are dropped in a mission you get lag?
you can look in detail by pressing Right CTRL PAUSE Twice and look at the details of what your CPU or GPU are doing
⚡⚡⭐⭐ MULTI THREADING IS OUT!! ❎❎ITS FIXED -- or being fixed! ua-cam.com/video/MLGeSHpP33M/v-deo.html MULTITHREADING IS HERE ❎❎
NEW Tweak found: ua-cam.com/video/i3ei1v8YmSs/v-deo.html 🟢🟢🟢🟢❗❗ When you have an RTX3090 and you get 15 FPS? NOT IN VR.. In Single player. Yup... it can happen and it is not the video card. if any more details are of interest to you! I can expand more on it
I went from 16GB ram to 48GB and it really helped. DCS is a ram hungry game
nonsense.. i have 64 GB of ram and never get even close to using all of it, yet dcs performance is horrible especially in vr
Upgraded to 64 gig and did really nothing with my rtx 2070 my max is 30 fps.
@@AnimalCentral-l7pdead on reply I have 64 also with rtx 2070 max fps 30 . Dcs is just horriable
@@spencerwarren9219 Dude I avg 90 to 120 FPS with a 5600x 3070 64gb DDR4 and a 530 Firecuda something is wrong with your system also you might wanna upgrade from a 2070 to a 4070 TI you might benefit from the better architecture 2070 is old its time to put it down your GPU came out in 2018 my 3070 came out in 2020 here is the 2 year difference in technology 8nm chipset vs 2070 13nm chipset
@@AnimalCentral-l7pi think you need more dedicated vram for ur graphics card
It’s a code design and concurrent architecture problem. Vulcan will make modest improvements. What they need is a complete redesign of how information is computed and integrated based on some concept of locality and distribution between client and server for MP.
I did some work on comp sci simulations for event driven/async modeling and it is hard. The good news is there that there is a lot of comp sci papers written on distributed computation.
Finally, there will be some trade offs required, in that it may not be possible to have 100% synced battlefield. Think of it as fog of war, but a long as it is within tolerable time variance then the results should still be consistent.
In short, this requires completely different approach to modeling of time and space across single and multiplayer game modes.
My thoughts exactly. Forget multi threading, that will help, but information culling when it's not relevant is what is going to really make the difference in these kinds of scenarios.
Interesting how 'there will be some trade offs required, in that it may not be possible to have 100% synced battlefield' is actually kind of true of the real world and the speed of light/causality!
@@Kifter1983 exactly, also objects far out do not require the same frequency of updates as objects close by. Each observer has information horizon and updates beyond that come on asynchronous basis.
@@user-jp3ri2ul5m So here is a question - why would the simulation be hitting my local CPU - if it is the map which is running on the server? Should I not just be receiving server updates for unit movements, attacks etc, why would me being on a server - still turn into me getting local Simulation hits. In theory, simulation should be localized to my aircraft only? Would be interesting to see how the LUAs run, I feel like there are local LUA configs running applying scripts to you, and as a result you start getting the sim load.
Why will Vulkan help? Seems to me this is a multithreading problem with the simulation engine? Does Vulkan help separate the frame draws from other non gfx processing?
DCS is also calculating water on the entire map, whether it is visible or not. The entire map has a water layer, and the land is "built" on top of it. It's been that way since day one. So you can gain frames by turning water down to no more than medium, and if you are flying on a map without water, or don't care about the eye candy, turn it down to the lowest setting.
Great point I always see it during preload was wondering if it draws it or not.
Remember kids, the problem with Digital Combat Simulator is Combat.
Hardware does not fix bad software.
More people need to see this.
IL-2 has the same problem but to a lesser extent, instead of a general drop in average frames for long periods.
You get stuck frames.
Amen
This is why the server network machines needs an upgrade otherwise it I’ll be outdated or obsolete early forever.
@@josephfrye7342 they are already running the latest cpu's
@@rossmarbow-combatflightsim5922 on an old motherboard, I don't think so, they need a new mother board that goes with it.
This is not how game should work after 15 years of development. Heavy simulation in hangar of invisible units, lovely. It stutters in vr even offline on lowest settings.
part of the reason, its built up on years and years.
spaghetti code riddled mess of a game
Getting better multithreading really helped
Thanks for the work. I think we (a lot of players for a while anyway) already knew this. At lease based on comments from the last several years.
You have to do a lot of work in the scripts to keep the object count as low as possible - remove as much stuff that can't be seen as possible (LOD of another kind - think "bubble"); bringing it in on demand; not all at once; etc. But this is only in SP.
And you still can't get carried away. But it helps.
In general (very general), In then end, this isn't a "Dungeon Crawler", it's a big open-world simulation; if you can 'detect' (or be detected by) something 100+ miles away it needs to be there, in the processing but the logic driving it should be simplified. And I agree: that doesn't appear to be happening in DCS = it's not very efficient.
Not a factor on other types of games. It's a tough problem in this genre. MSFS/XP - all you have to do is render terrain, for the most part. Shiny graphics or good game-play? There will always be a compromise needed. I'd rather have good AI (works for both SP and MP - PVE).
agreed - I think there is some sort of thread collision happening. which maybe if its streamlined will split the threads and not cause the interruptions?
Thank You Plazma, this will save alot of DCSer's a lot money.I Can delay my upgrade for another two years.
I attached mission you can just spectate if you crash the flanker and see how muxh lag simulation lag the mlrs launchers add.
Thank you 🙏👌.. Its Not a smoking gun always, but gives you a chance to see what is adding to the lag. Try ygr
It's not you..... it's DCS
hahaha of course. But as anyone you gotta over compensate in hoping things will work better.
from the hundred things I read and saw online about DCS performance the best thing is the setting for maximum frame rate. Even with 120 FPS I used to get severe terrain stutter. Once I lowered that to 60 FPS maximum and since I did that the terrain is super smooth like anything else
Correct I'm actually making a video on this this weekend explaining how and why
@@plazma1945That would be much appreciated by many people I guess. I have literally tried everything youtube has to offer but this was the one thing that actually made a huge difference. DCS does not seem to like higher than 60 fps, and I would be curious to know why
This is actually kind of depressing… it means there is little you can do as a consumer once you get a high-mid end PC and some RAM. Thanks for investigating and putting the information out there though!
Glad i could help, new cpus are coming look for 12/13th gen intel cpus
You need faster single core and higher turbo speeds. I think 13th gen will be a good way to dump power
If they do the multithreading they realse next year is done right then it will hopefully get a lot better
It's not only the cluster munition explosion that will tank frame rate. The cratering will continue to eat frames long after the smoke has cleared.
yesss good point on the craters!
excellent analysis and presentation
Old now that we have multithreading
But basics are still there and heavy servers still can get bogged down
Hello, excellent informational video for the non computer science plebs out there.
What this looks like is an engine that's not optimized to handle large worlds using newer computer hardware. I suspect they use an older engine which was designed for CPUs with fewer cores and most importantly lesser cache memory. What you get is an engine which is not using data in a cache-aware manner. That leads to more cache misses (meaning data was not found in the cache) which requires a lookup in RAM which is several orders of magnitude slower. Proof of this is that observation that CPU frame times go down from 25ms to 10ms, a 250% improvement, on a 5800X3D compared to a 5800X.
What's sad is that this is a solved problem today - other games like Spiderman by Insomnaic Games flaunt their ability on PS5 to move fast through densely populated worlds without loading screens. They redesigned their engine's entire data pipeline (from SSD to RAM to cache to CPU) to take advantage of newer hardware at every stage of the pipe (SSD, memory, cache).
What can Eagle Dynamics do at this point? - Nothing much, without causing themselves and their audience a whole bunch of pain. And I'm saying that as a game developer with 15 years of experience - go ahead and Google me. It'll take a complete overhaul of the entire engine, which will affect the simulation engines written on top of the game engine, not to mention the fact that existing maps and content out there might need to be retouched to work on the new engine. It's like changing the table cloth without disturbing the glassware on the table. They're looking at a humongous and expensive effort only to be left with a whole new set of bugs which will take another few years to iron out. This will also affect their existing release schedule for upcoming content. There will be delays, it will be very messy. But, the frame rate will be comparable to what you get on current gen games, and it will scale with better hardware.
As much as I'd love to play DCS at 144p, I'm not sure I want it at the risk of making Eagle Dynamics go bankrupt.
Heya, indeed original flaming cliffs came out around the same time as the first Core cpus from intel. I think its not able to recognize the cores and split threads amongst it.
Now here is a quiestion imagine if they could add physix to handle munitions detonations... That would be awesome
Maybe if dcs moves to vulcan? What do you think. More importantly what do you fly?
High single core performance along with high ram speed will help with the simulation performance. I've also heard really good things about the Ryzen 5800X3D's performance in DCS. You'll want to make sure your XMP profile is set correctly in BIOS. What is your CPU overclock, RAM size, RAM bandwidth, and RAM cas latency? If you don't know do a little research, overclock, and make an after video.
64GB 4x16 at Full XMP tweak
10700K with overclock and XTU Configured with 4.8 to 4.9 per core stable
thermals at full load stay below 80C on CPU grab the Perfest mission above give it a run see how your fps works out in it curious to see
@@plazma1945 We will need to know your actual RAM bandwidth and timing. CPU-z is free and tiny, it'll tell you on the DRAM Frequency (you double what it shows) and CL on the "Memory" tab.
I have an i7-8086K (same as the i5-10600K) at 5.1Ghz
32Gb@3.6Ghz CL19
3090@stock
2TB NVMe
Various SSDs
I'll try to find time to test soon, where do I get a copy of the mission?
@@Specter0420 mission zip file is in the top comment I pinned below the video
my ram is running Dual Channel
17-17-17-39 Trc 56
at 1600mhz clock (ddr 3200)
Switched from 5900x to 5800x3d, saw a decent improvement
@@MrTurbohampster how are you finding the thermals on the 5800x3d? I'm tempted to get one but the temps look a bit scary
The submunition should behandled as a particle system via the client GPU. Only the state of the target should be send via network. Maybe one centralized calculation of the mpact reaction on the server than synchronization of the affected damage to the clients wich saw a simple representation as a fast calculated particle system CBU dispersion?!
Good call as a particle and record that interaction
The code of DCS is decades old in the main loop on this point. If they would be starting engine from scratch the simple thing to do today would be to disconnect simulation loop and graphics loop like FPS multiplayer games are doing. That way FPS is purely GPU bound and if simulation is lagging behind, the only effect you would see is game state updating a few milliseconds late. E.g. Example of counter-strike that runs server simulation on stable 64FPS (called ticks) but if you run counter-strike on 128FPS and above, you see in two or more frames the same game state. Just your view and reacting to your local input is displayed as superposition on top of a few milliseconds delayed world to maintain feeling of responsiveness.
Yeah sadly there is sooo much code which Is used to model all the factors and more and more models and modules being added would be hard to scrap and reboot.
@@plazma1945 Well, there comes a point where a technical debt like this will start eating your sales. ArmA series had the same problem that because the game was widely known as resource crazy, the community was loosing any young blood. So they had to invest years trying to switch to new engine. DCS will have to do something sooner or later, they cannot forever milk a niche audience of 40+ years old guys that can afford it.
For a while ED was teasing doing another light-sim stand-alone spin-off like old "Lock ON" a few years back, I was hoping that will happen for both new engine and new blood to the community. Otherwise a generation from now DCS is dead, and kids get used to mouse controlled WT style aircrafts as a norm. And I say that as someone who few years back as DCS player thought WarThunder is stupid, now I find myself playing it more often than DCS simply because I no longer have bazillion of hours to troubleshoot DCS performance or control scheme over and over.
Its not like multi-core CPUs are a new thing. That DCS can't/won't off-load much of this problem from a SINGLE core is the real problem. DCS doesn't seem to like its users very much. They very much seem to like to collect money for 3d models though.
its even older ... its based on LOMAC
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_On:_Modern_Air_Combat
which came out in 2003 ..
we are spoiled as we think Core CPU have been around for longer than we think.
Core CPUs didnt get active until 2005-2008 and those were mobile low power cpus first..
www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/quickreffam.htm#core2
we are running on a derivative of the 2003 engine from what I was able to find.
_---- hardware requirements --_
Pentium 4 !
CPU Processor Pentium 4 2 GHz
RAM 512MB RAM
Graphics Card 64MB RAM graphic card
_--- yup ---_
amd released their X2 processors in 2005/2006?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon_64_X2
Great Video Plazma, Thank you!
My pleasure!
Thank you for this explanation. I upgraded my PC to a Ryzen 7 5800X with an RTX3070TI and still see those drops in FPS. Wondered why this happens. Now it‘s clear.
FPS might improve now there's going to be multithreading luckily.
@@Jojooooooo yes but to be honest: I do not expect to see multithreading before 2024
@@thomas_ger4098 😅
Crap optimisation. Falcon BMS has much better campaigns, much more complex, yet much better FPS. Yes, I know the graphics aren't as good as in DCS, but from what I understand from this video, it's not about graphics that much as about the simulation. I wish ED finally did anything about it. Thank you for the video, very insightful.
Dobje Marcin! Thank you, i feel that the simulation with X number or scripts and objects will start to overload the processes. What's funny is there was no CPU overload more like a fight of threads and procceses in the game causing it to stutter. Even the greatest video card can be brought foen by bad gaming scripts.
Bms has a bubble around the client..stuff outside of it is not calculated..as it should...if u are 150 miles away why fo u need to calculate cluster munitions dropped? Its just shit desgin
@@claudgin No idea. Yet still curious how BMS has this sorted, there is a campaign going on and things happening all around the map in BMS, yet the performance is much better.
@@Marcin79W as i said..things outside of the client bubble do not load to memory..plus Falcon 4.0 was made with potato computers..so back then the coding was spot on..not lazy like today where u have alot of RAM so companies do not optimize anything until its too late.
I think bms also use probability charts rather then calculating each bullet (again since back then computers had less memory than a cellphone)..
Not an expert on BMS but ya..DCS is not optimized and makes some weired desgin choices..like calculating each bullet impact even if it has nothing to do with you
@@claudgin Good and bad optimisation was always a thing. MSFS in 1998 was well better optimised than Falcon 4.0 if I remember well. But I see your point. And the probability charts seems like a good idea to save on resources. I hope for Vulkan to come around quick, maybe that would help.
DCS suffers the most probably from using mostly one CPU core only.
This test would make sense if you're the server - eg. when all the MRLS launch, *someone's* got to do the calculations where they go, and it wouldn't matter if you're viewing the events or not. I'd be worried if you were connected as a remote client and still got huge lag spikes. That said, DCS's simulation model might be that all local machines run their own simulation and get their states synchronized from the server now and then. That would make less network traffic and allow more local control...
*shrugs*.
yup
Ran it on a server it lags cpu has been going from 10% to 45-65% when mlrs launch and on local machine fps and CPU drop by 15-20%
@inf DCS does exactly as you describe it is the local machine that does the calculations then sends that info to server then server sends to everyone else in server and it then waits for thier reply to resend thier info back. Cap from the grim reapers made a great video explaining the main reasons for lag between clients in DCS, and coupled with info on this vid it makes perfect sense why DCS struggles so much as in some cases if their is a client attached that has a low end system it has to wait for that slower CPU to calculate before it can update everyone else, the issue not being connection lag but CPU lag combined with complex missions. I may be slightly off and simplifying this but from what i remember DCS uses servers as a conection point rather than a processing point and it definitely is opptomised for only one CPU , they have plans to change the API soon to use multicore and that will improve things massively as even having an older CPU with less cores doesn't slow the sim down much due to less cores it all about the SPEED of calculation of the CPU in newer tech that is helping not more cores, but that is about to change soon with updated API even older CPU's should get a massive boost in how DCS can run on thier systems being allowed to operate on up to 6 cores at least will help. Not an expert on this but just repeating what other more tech savy vloggers are saying and they all agree the updated API should give everyone a boost in DCS no matter how old thier system is.
@@nemisis_wolf and really good breakdown from you as well thank you for that detail!!!
Do you use VR? A bit scared when my rtx3070 gonna become obsolete then you mentioned about the game itself not the GPU, thanks for that 👍
It's really about ram running VR. I would recommend 32gbits. Keep your missions simple
@@cool_cat007smoove3 oh okay thanks lad 🙏 I got my ram covered if we're talking about it 👍
I'm intrigued - with a similarly complex mission on my Ryzen 5 3600X PC, the max drop I've had is down to 32-34 FPS at worst, and running on 2 CPU cores (or one of the 6 dual-cores)...Not sure why. A stress test was siimilar to yours. I also find that a very busy air environment is a lot less troublesome - even with 40 aircraft in the air, 60-65fps was the norm throughout, with the aircraft doing all sorts of stuff from ground attack to air-to-air, using both the stock assets as well as the Military and Civilian Air Mods.
Depends on RAM as well, he may have 32 you may have 64? Not sure what CPU he is using neither.. Or what resolution ( I am guessing 1440p?).. All makes a bit of a difference as well.. Psh, I mean in comparison my Computer is a potato now, a Ryzen 1400, 16gb Ram, GTX 970.. Still get reasonable FPS Above 50 to average of 32fps with large scenes. BUT, one last thing is try that same Stress test but run it in MP mode with just yourself as Host. The Simulation runs differently in MP than SP.
@@Daniel-jq4qk Sorry for the late reply...my CI has 32GB DDR4 3000, and uses a safely overclocked (+10% GPU, +50% RAM) GTX1660 DDR5 (a silicon shortage upgrade), and dedicated PCI 3.0 SSD for DCS in addition to the SSD for O/S to the same spec. Prior to overclock, 65-72 was typical, post overclock hitting 100+ with clouds was also very typical, and DCS and the PC remain utterly stable, and not exceeding 70 C at any time for hours...make of that what you will.
And that's with almost everything cranked hard. GPU does all the AA it can, none of these turned on in DCS, and then any additional edge AA is handled by ReShade, which gives you that for free...and no GPU loading.
@@martinlagrange8821 Right which all of makes sense. But, because your average is still high you can still get performance drops during certain occasions in the background. You may not always notice this ofc. For instance you take 20 B-1 bombers or B-52's packed with 500lb pound bombs and have them all drop at the same time you will most certainly experience a huge hit. Or, even dropping 4-8 CBU's at the same time as well. What the OP is explaining is that because of how the simulation works in the background doing all the math and physics for each explosive or explosive pucks in case of a CBU, it will hit your performance. Now, take this to a grander scale in MP with a packed server and tons of units activated, it can hit even the most beast of machines. He is not speaking just on average though as most the time you won't really be affected by this as most servers are pretty well optimized and won't run multiple large-scale unit activations at the same time. But, again when you were talking about stress testing I am not sure what you were doing to stress test or if you had done it through Multiplayer or Single-Player (Multilayer simulations run very differently and are more demanding than usual SP) but you can try deploying a wing of heavy bombers across the map have them set to drop when you spawn and take off a runway and you should see some effect in your Performance due to this. Depending on size ofc will vary how badly it affects it.
@@Daniel-jq4qk I'm interested in what is being run different in MP vs SP simulation, since i notice lower fps and more stutter even with relatively simple training / instant action missions if i run them as local host, and with me as only logged in player.
@@vse2009 So, my understanding is MP gets its own core to help process background simulation in MP where as SP is all running it all from the DCS Core altogether.
ive always known or thought that heavily scripted events in missions were the reason why FPS sucked. how do you get around that? since scripting came to DCS, its been like this...as soon as a script is triggered, theres always a momentary FPS spike regardless of how big or small the script is. honestly think scripting should go away, instead make stuff like this native to DCS where it shouldnt need scripting.
I think scripting has to be timed and run at very specific intervals, perhaps it can be triggered to check the events, and respond to them in a more rarer fashion.
If that makes sense my trip would make sense but so that it's not always running but rather running once in awhile this way it's not always loading up the system.
I really think the question is to Eagle Dynamics though
Faster / more RAM helped me get better fps but there is still some missions/ servers that really kill it.
I think you should first learn and conduct tests before making such statements.
"Scripting" doesn't impact performance in a significant way, it's the number of objects and units + the number of players + the number of radars + the number of launched weapons and explosions + AI behavior that cause FPS to drop.
Now, if you wrote an utterly ridiculous script to spawn 100 aircraft every second or to scan the entire map volume for all objects every second, then you'd definitely experience performance issues, but the root cause of the issue still wouldn't be the script... the culprit would be DCS' inability to cope with such loads.
I know that this sounds a lot like saying "it's not the gun's fault that your body isn't bulletproof", but it really isn't the same.
Scripts by themselves don't cause bad performance, it's DCS that has trouble keeping up when a barrage of missiles hits a target, when a bunch of bomb clusters do their thing, when players and groups of units spawn, when fleets engage in battle ,when F-14 tomcats pass by at close range, when missions get busy with all this stuff happening at once, etc.
You could create a busy mission without scripts and it would still run poorly.
Most scripts are just a list of light, basic functions which are executed either sporadically or at manageable intervals... if the author of the script doesn't do anything crazy, DCS doesn't even flinch when the script is run.
@@Goreuncle It may be imperceptible to you, but every time I can tell a script runs because my fps goes from 60 to 1 for a brief second. It may not be all scripts, but it is A script nonetheless that causes it. That stutter didnt exist in LOMAC or Flanker, or even BS1 that I can recall. And yes, I know its a script that causes that stutter. Every time DCS calls up a script, it stutters while it loads that script into memory. Once its loaded, its back to normal.
@@utley
Well, I write scripts for DCS and I get none of that "from 60 to 1 fps" trouble.
Like I tried to explain in my previous comment, scripts aren't a problem per se, the problem comes when people write crazy functions that end up saturating DCS.
Aside from that, it's also necessary to keep in mind that DCS has its own problems, which cause fps drops in certain situations regardless of the presence of scripts.
In your case, I'm thinking hardware issue, but without having more information, I really can't say.
Also, unless you've conducted meticulous troubleshooting (which doesn't seem likely, given the vagueness of your comments) I don't think you're in a position to pinpoint the cause of the issues you're experiencing either.
Very informative, I didn't know this! So my RTX 2060 Super is good enough then? GPU usage is always around 90% so I thought it's not strong enough
2060 is quite good as long as you stay below 1440p and do not turn on MSAA and Shadows ... Shadows and MSAA is what will kill you
This is really interesting as I've recently started building more complex missions. I've been kinda lazy by not using many triggers, just setting all the units and thier waypoints to collide at a particular time. I've really noticed the drop in fps, even though I've played missions with far more assets in game that has played much smoother.
I guess using triggers to spawn assets is the way to go? I've still got a lot to learn about triggers though. I've had lots of issues getting the simple ones I've made work correctly.
Yeah not 100% sure what the trick is. But triggers are way better since units are not sitting there.
nice one buddy. informational.
Thank you its still valid
I really thought my 3060ti couldn't handle high settings, turns out was just the servers
Yup yup 3060ti is ok, multi threading now helps but not fully
I have a 12gb RX 6700 XT; Single Player / Instant Action / Base Defense / Syria in an F18 uses 11gb of Video ram / 26gb ram, sitting on the taxiway.
Indeed. The damn game will eat up and rather allocate all ram and cpu it possibly can. The more the better.. If u have ability or see a sale, 32->64gb upgrade actually works...
@@plazma1945 I'm all over it on my main rig; the above machine is my 9 year old sons.
Excellent information, specially for those of us who design and build missions. it makes a lot of sense to use Bubbles to late activate units not being used and deactivate uniots outside everyones range...in a snese creating bubbles with triggers... On teh subject has anyone calculates or tested is excess in trigers also afect the "simulation" or fps?
Im not good enough map maker for that sir
Isn't that basically what Falcon4 is doing?
@@tomaszwota1465 yes indeed. that´s where i got the idea.
What about the R7 5800x3D which has 100mb cache.
If the game is not using all the cores it doesn't matter. How many megs per core and speed of each core. Optimization is required to spread any game across many cores. Dcs doesnt do that. You can have amd with 64 cores or 256 and if game cant realize they exist, they are just hot garbage. Faster individual cores. That's the only option
@@plazma1945 Since I posted my comment, I have seen video's that say the R& 5800x3D gives more frames in DCS and other flight sims and benefits VR immensely.
Good Video! you explained very well
Ty ty!!! Hope it helps 🤟
@@plazma1945 Yes! it hepls to understand that DCS is at the point that need optimization.
I've had this thought before, stop working on modules for a while (like the F series) and let heat blur just make my phantom II. Lmao.
Lol.. Now I want MY FLANKER Full Fidelity for Fs (thats a lot of Fs)
@@plazma1945 Flanker full fidelty would be great aswell! My number one favorite russian jet.
This is why I play in single mode only. My gtx3080ti and 10900K cannot handle multiplayer servers like enigma cold war server. When I run diagnostics it is definitely the cpu that is bottlenecking(especially as I get closer to the enemy front)! In single mode all is good. Can't wait till they optimize cpu utilization.
Hey see my channel how to turn off tacview you can get extra 20-25% back if it's turned on and you are on a busy server. Give it a try let me know
@@plazma1945 thanks but what is tacview?
@@vracan it's a program which makes those after flight videos.. If you have never installed it you don't need to worry. It's an add on app which makes those red blue airplane flight videos
If anyone is having a micro stutter issue- TURN OFF HOT PLUG in your control settings menu.
good idea, that definately helps out, as dcs is not constantly polling your USB ports for device changes.. IF you connect a different joystick you will need to Rescan devices.. thats all. no biggie. and a good benefit.
@@plazma1945 Yeah I struggled for weeks. 12900k, 64g, and 3090 getting quarter second frame drop to 15 from 60 every 6 or 7 seconds. That fixed it.
👍👍👍👍
I can’t find the setting. Could you help?
@@Pablo_lens If you open up your controls page. The page where you bind all your controls it's at the bottom right of the screen.
Same with Arma we had to ban the use of a certain minigun as it killed the server
Ooooh
When the bomber start their bombing run on Enigma .......
It's tru though
They also just updated this on enigma and is far less of an impact now.
Thank you for adressing and this problem, i have been saving up for a high end pc but now im totally lost yet again. Any advice is more then welcome
It's a complete mind F*** in all honesty.
What's your current pc, mark?
Kinda it is
@@plazma1945 cpu AMD ryzen 5800x3d G skill 32 ram ddr4 cl 14 4000 MHz gpu asus rx6900xt oc asus rog strix motherboard x570 2x 1 tb m.2 samsung pro storage
@@Im_MarkS that is a kick as rig! PS I saw improvement when i went from 32 to 64 GB.. in fps stability and load speed .. fyi.. was worth it.. DCS is based on huge database sets for its textures, and databases LOVE memory.
Thanks for this analysis. I find it somewhat bizarre how much stuff is calculated client-side in multiplayer. This strategy leads not only to the performance issues shown here, but also is a likely cause of the infamous server desync and sci-fi style unit teleporting issues.
I love teleportation.. 😝esp if you are trying to go guns guns guns
i have massiv dierences between playing a mission in single player vs same mission on a server...
Yuup it takes a huge hit avoid servers with too many people
Spot on man 👍🏻
its funny about the weird things you find out while trying to figure out stuff....
@@plazma1945 - well thanks for figuring it out for us because your absolutely right and it makes total sense. 10900K and 3090 here and I have seen the drops in Egnimas server, which is an awesome server as you said. Cheers man 👍🏻
@@Mako-sz4qr
So now that they have announced multithreading, that should solve the problem by a huge margin right?
Yes that's a huge fix when it's out
no
Heyy, i play in vr, and om growling sindwinder i get constant 72fps, but on enigma i get 50% decrease, what could the cause be(both servers were on caucasus at the time and number of players was similar)
Turn off tac view from special settings in dcs if you have it,
make sure you're running multi thread and yes I get about 35-55 fps max in enigma
How the f do you get 45% constant LUA CPU usage ???
I'm sorry but the person who did the script ... I have no words
Well its very complex map. Reach out to enigma if you can help im sure he wont mind the assistance!
Memory is very important in DCS.
I went from 16-32-64 it helps for sure
@@plazma1945 If you are planning on video recording, headset tracking, or streaming. You made the right decision.
And yet Falcon BMS has even more happening on the ground, the sea, and in the air and is even less optimized but does not drop your FPS at all …
Wonder how it handles on the CPU. Let me know how it runs if you look at task manager
Dame i wish i could get 47fps in vr with my rtx 2070. My best is 30fps average 26fps. If i dorp setting to lowest where u cant read anyting in cockpit i get 42fps. I also have 64 gigs fo ram.
What about now with DCS MT? Is it better now?
Yes much better see the video linked in the description I test it with multi threading there. The game will still stutter on complex maps,but it's better for sure
If none of those launches are seen why doesn't it just do the impact points one at a time rather than calculating them all at the same time?
Indeed that's the thing. Even if a group of strike aircraft are shooting unguided fragmentation munitions.... On other side of the map... Will still lag you out..
What's effecting me drastically are Rocket Pods: I have a stable 45-55 fps but as soon as I start(!) fireing Kom8 in the Su-25, the fps drop so low I cannot even aim anymore.
So it's not the explosion but - it seems - the smoke of the rockets.
Smoke alone shouldn't do that; is it maybe shadows that's causing that? I'm gonna try the detailed ingame FPS counter to find the culprit, but maybe you could check if it's the same with you?
Yes it's calculating all hits n missiles n smoke hard
Huey and miniguns. I can go with full multicrew Huey, spewing death all around and it's smooth. Even with a flight of a few of them.
But try to do a dive with front miniguns. When you're REAL close to them and peppering them hard, fps drops hard.
Rockets also cause fps drop, but I can shoot a lot of them from afar and it doesn't affect me much at all, only close by stuff makes my fps drop.
And cluster munitions when there's more than three or four at the same time. That'll do it even without looking at it, just in the vicinity
@@tomaszwota1465 Cluster for me is also only when looking at it; especially in F6 "follow missile", where you're absolutely close to the explosions, the game actually stops! Not just for a second either, for minutes.
I usually end up killing the game...
Memory and Shader Cach is the top killers but ha what every.
absolutely delete the FXO and METASHADERS2 after each update
@@plazma1945 Can this be done be simply opening the specific folder and delete whatever is stored within (ache folders is obviously what I am referring to)
Doing gods work here
figuring stuff out more like it
wow that actually surprised me i have a gtx750ti still rocks to this day 😅
a small question what do you suggest for a budget GPU for DCS
I think going with a 3060 / 3060ti is a good place to start and a good upgrade for your. DCS right now is struggling because it is getting a bit too big and complicated and is overloading the hardware. it needs optimization. I can do 3060ti max setting 1080p and 40-50fps
@@plazma1945 I use a 3060... Online. I get more than 60fps at max settings 1080p
ED are relying on people upgrading their hardware to over come their piss poor coding
Dont upgrade now
The new Ryzen , nvidea cards are already being shipped into their containers.
Within 6 months every 3070 , Ryzen 5 Will be old fashion.
I'd say 970 is just enough for DCS, that is what i run, i have smooth FPS with everything on Ultras, except clouds (There is not much difference between the different settings of clouds anyway) but you need to have a solid CPU, at least i5 11400, and 32 RAM to run heavy scenarios and maps like Syria
I'm gonna take the liberty and be an ass here. Is the idea that complex missions and/or complex graphics not common knowledge for lower FPS? Not only for DCS but for any game really? Surely everyone has had great FPS during their 'Free Flight' missions, and much lower FPS on a fully loaded mission on said map, right? All one has to do is read/watch a GPU/CPU hardware review where this type of thing is talked about to understand the relationship between hardware and software. It's not some type of VooDoo that inflicts DCS, and which needs a video, it's just the way software, along with certain hardware, works.
Also, beyond a certain point, the GPU is not the limiting factor with this title; in other words, it's all those 'off screen' calculations you mentioned, which have nothing to do with the GPU, but are rather CPU intensive. I would think most people know it's not the GPU doing most off-screen calculations, since nothing is being rendered.
hey hey, ok RM you may know this stuff and pay attention to it. many many people are NOT technical at all. they click on stuff and stuff is supposed to run. I had one buddy who was getting super low fps.. on a 3090 like 10 fps.. even in free flight..
why.. well after lots of trouble shooting, drivers, heat, temp, cpu etc (10 core cpu too) ... turns out he had somehow set his afterburner to Minimum clocks so the 3090 was running at 100mhz or 200mhz..
so long story short, I make videos so techies can say.. Oh cool i can press CTRL PAUSE to monitor cycles
and non techies can say.. hey cool, CPU = complexity. Cool
its easy to assume everyone knows what you know.. but its just a part of the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
which i put the link up above so you can look it up.. Bam .. now i was an ass.. but you know what they say.. you cant have Class without Cl ... i right :)
naw naw its all ribbing, but yeah many guys dont know tech stuff, they just like planes
@@plazma1945 EXACTLY...or are old like I am and have been held hostage in Apple's ecosystem since the Commodore 64 days of the late 80s...I was finally able to escape or at least have more liberties and acquired a PC intended to be used for DCS, IL-2 and ARMA exclusively. (I use PC's at my office and have a 3 full time people/employees who are certified in all the Microsoft "stuff" to run my servers...After 20+ years in business I decided to take a break and sold my database/client base and some proprietary data...but I kept my 5 Dell R-70 & 720 Poweredge servers and about 30 or so workstations...non capable of gaming but they do require an entire room to hide them in (my wife doesn't understand why id on't throw them away or give them to a charity)....The main reason is because I've continued to anticipate being able to sale old parts or scavenge for something in the future....Even so, while what @rm stated IMO was basically, "Hey, there are endless articles and videos addressing these issues daily for 12-24 months...and anyone that engages in PC gaming will recognize these dynamics or if they don't they are ignorant...He definitely stepped over the line, he referenced himself as being an ass...I will define his comment about "NO NEED TO CREATE SUCH A VIDEO" as being more than an arse...I qualify that as someone being a try-hard D*CK...if he knows the information then skip this video and continue on vs attacking the person that took their time to point out something that this old man, in more than 3 years of doing more research, due-diligence and reviewing Videos regarding not only DCS but the intracasies of CPUs and GPUs and RAM and etc....THIS IS THE FIRST VIDEO out of literally 100s I've viewed that points out these facts...not only that, I would have never known to use "RT CTRL + PAUSE" to view the data on screen in real time....Therefore, @rm3950 is misguided and inaccurate in his assumption or perception..I also agree with you concerning the DUNNING KRUGER EFFECT being applicable. Although I've been following and doing research for years as I stated I am just now starting my DCS career... if my words are too direct or problematic...well...as I've also said...I'm much older than most I would assume...with age comes an unique trait of not giving a rat's arse what someone else may think or say about me especially some anonymous "hater" wasting their time, your time and now my time by posting self promoting comments while chastising and insulting you for creating and posting a video I found helpful. I usually do not comment when I stumble across comments such as that one but for some reason it just did not sit well with me...Such is life. Appreciate the Video and Take Care.
@@Capt_OscarMike heya alpha your comments popped up super randomly I read your reply and thank you .. I put my nerd hat and gamer hat and airplane love hat. and try my best.
I am so glad the multi threading has come out in open beta. hopefully you get a chance to download and run it .. i tried it and saw a boost this is great. its like getting a new game (well new engine) altogether!
чёт сильно интересное 👍👍👍
na ruskom sdelau verisiu tozhe!
@@plazma1945 красаувчик 👍👍👍
so what your saying is that if i have not spent any money yet i should not waste money spending it.
What video card and cpu do u have. Unless you're going to vr best thing to get is at least more ram.
Make sure you're using dcs multi threading not single threading
None of these fixes work if it's a CPU or motherboard problem. I've tried so many methods digitally, nothing works
An overloaded mission will cause this..
@@plazma1945 what do you mean by that?
@@lonewolf9188 well a complex mission.. check out the mission i have linked in the description. just jump into the SU27 and go afterburner and hold it level or press H at say 500Meters.. seee if it lags and how badly press CTRL Pause twice to get all the details.
it could be a cpu or motherboard, but I am just saying its likely the bad thread design..
the game not hardware..
Lol! I used a classified 2.0 GTX 980ti and I've never got a drop like that. I ran it IN 2K just fine. SOMETHING is wrong with you cpu or ram or even your card. I just ordered the new GeForce GTX 3090ti FTW3 ULTRA and ill post soon as my new case come in.
A lot of people get performance problems in DCS, mainly because it sucks at multithreading, but also because some textures are way damn too big for no reason. It's not an issue of the hardware if it works brilliantly with everything else. I love DCS, but let's be real - we need a good deep look at how to rewrite the engine, and that's not likely because there's no immediate money incentive for ED - and they need to pay the bills.
Map in description give it a try... Its not a video card issue though
@@plazma1945 this is a complex problem too. We did a multiplayer test and about 70 CBU99/Mk20 RE exploding roughly at the same time didn't really seem to do much to the server machine. CPU was below 30-40 percent usage. But the clients? When they started exploding I had a massive fps drop in VR from about 55 to 3-7 min and around 15 average until they were all spent.
I have a 3090, 5900x, 64gb ram, on a x570 chipset. DCS still micro stutters and freezes on certain missions with a high unit count or a lot of munitions fired. Actually when I upgraded from a 3900X to 5900X, micro stuttering got worse.
See if you can disable cpu virtualization, that might help. Let me know!
@@plazma1945 I had to adjust my Ryzen PBO boost and auto OC settings. Now getting on average 60-80 fps on ground with this benchmark mission I created.
ua-cam.com/video/TyhD7wln1Q8/v-deo.html
Optimization is shit, I’m on a 12900k, 3080ti and 64GB of RAM. The GS server will get me as low as 32fps. Hopefully multi core enhancements and Vulkan will help us out.
yes I have the same experience - the server does get loaded up, I get better fps now on GS - 30-40 in VR pretty stable. In Enigma during a bombing raid I get down to 25 FPS.
Now here is a question what is your FPS in the Single mission instant action like Bomber Intercept?
@@plazma1945 I’ll have to try it this weekend, the bomber intercept mission is part of the core game?
@@MSFerrari248F1 yup if you have flanker its under Caucases Instant action. Curious what fps you will get. I think easy 80-100
@@plazma1945 I’ll give it a go, I’m on 1440p triples though. Not sure how that will affect frame rate. It’s effectively more pixels than 4K and I do have the side monitors render individual viewport so as to avoid the fisheye effect. Idk if it’s less taxing than VR but I’ll try it and report back.
@@MSFerrari248F1 oooh cool OK also then you can grab the zip file (in description or in first comment) inside is a perf.miz a couple of files one with clouds one without.. and you just level out the 27 at say 500m above the sea and fly level and straight ..
all the mlrs will launch etc, and you can watch performance - your 27 should be invincible.. thats the Local stress torture test i was talking about.
My buddy and I like to drop all CBU at once on a player and make their game Crash We love Dcs ❤
you are a terrible person
At 5:22 is that BGM from Rainbow Six Vegas?
Going in.. Call of duty mw2 I think... The track is called
My son has a successful R6S channel...I wish the creators would be creative to bring attention back to that game...he's commonly listed in top 10 lists of R6S creators by numerous sources...I'm biased obviously...just wish he had a product or focused on something that wasn't dying a slow death like R6S seems to be...will see what the future holds
I run 32 cores / half shut down and 64 GB at 3000 mhz with a 3080 10GB MSI. Running VR with the Open XRtoolkit and I notice very little difference between potato mode and maxed settings except unless I run the MSAA 4 then it's practically frozen. MSAA 2 its good to go. I run the shadow Flat to really improve the high graphic intense Jungles in the Marianas. F16 free flight I get 37 fps flying low over the Island sometimes. Some maps are much much better. I jump between steam and DCS world. I have my helicopters on DCS world and my Jets on Steam. Last few months have been great improvements.
32 cores.. hows the use on them? I have 8 cores and usually last 2 cores are busy rest are < 5%
@@plazma1945 I've got 16 cores, I get maybe 4 working above 10% and only 2 are busy with DCS. Until we get proper multithreading support we'll be in performance hell.
@@tomaszwota1465 yessir
DCS: "32 cores eh? OK you and you, come with me, the rest are dismissed."
@@MongooseTacticool I have run as low as 4 cores. Everything seems just fine running at 32 on normal mode with 1800 mhz. The DCS software updates have made the most improvement on my fps in VR.
yes, a 3090 is not the fix. Try a 4090
A subscriber sent me one, or badge things a little better but not much like 20-30%
Not the best anymore, and very power consumpting. Actually its very bad choice now. My Palit RTX 4070 Ti overtakes it easily and has DLLS 3 option for new games. And now after multithreading patch im getting 120 fps on maxed out settings, full HD. CPU old 2600K @4.2 GHz.
yup yup ! its all better now!
Thanks for sharing...somehow I missed this video. Regardless, would you be able to duplicate these scenerios or more bluntly stated, duplicate this video BUT THIS TIME, USE THE NEWLY RELEASED (released earlier today) MULTI-THREADING CAPABILITIES/OPTIONS the community now has to utilize (as an option for now via Open Beta). I've been watching, researching and have purchased many items in ED's inventory but have yet to set up my HOTAS/Pedals, TacView, SRS, VoiceAttack, OBS/Shadowplay, etc, etc, etc... Although I have an AMD RYZEN 7 5800X CPU with a 1000W PSU 32GB of RAM I am really concerned about only having 8GB of VRAM in my NVIDIA RTX 3070 GPU....
I've read and heard...including within the release notes of the MT Patch being implemented...that if your GPU is bottlenecking than this advancement in DCS architecture will be moot due to me having an inferior GPU...I do not have/use VR...and my monitor is a 1440p G-Sync Dell Gaming Monitor...I have NO IDEA if the 3070 will cause bottlenecking to occur....I'm not positive how to even view temps, variables in game so I have a lot to learn (teaching an old dog new tricks isn't easy particularly when the old dog is attempting to accomplish new tricks solo....but is what it is...
Beyond my irrelevant personal info being shared I am intrigued to view the differenes between this video's results and recreating the same using DCS's newly released Multi-Threading tehnology. Thanks
It's done in my new video today check out the boost on vr it's solid fourty to sixty percent
How much do you think server performance / speed affects this?
so.. it does take a hit on the server. However, the server though does take a hit, mainly focuses on passing the network status back and forth..
I have been able to get 10-12 people to fly on my server (which is an old Dell workstation from 2013 i7-3770 with 32gb ram) and all 12 people flew without any lag at all. While the mission is running on the server, (or my workstation) I get a 5-10% CPU hit.
For a complex mission with a lot of stuff about 20% CPU hit..
im pretty sure it's my gpu im playing with a p106-090 that's broken
Holy shit, I knew DCS was bloated, but this is ridiculous.
Its not the bloat it's the lack of optimization for newer cpus
@@plazma1945 Hasn't it always been unoptimized since day one?
"Potato mod" 🤣
What's the music in the background? It's great.
at which time?
Which CPU do you have? It looks like that's your issue here. One of your cores seems to hit the limits quite easily. Your GPU isn't doing much and you should get way more FPS on these settings.
10700k 64gb ddr4 17-17-17 cas
bro you're describing a cpu bottleneck
Good information 👍
Thank you thank you!! I try , just another way to look for lag.. as we often blame hardware but its sometimes not the hardware.
@@plazma1945 I sort of knew bits but no one has explained it like that and Ive never used all that extra info with the fps counter. It's now very helpful. Thanks again.
@@plazma1945 Can I ask a question? On the CPU readouts the first one is called Present. Is that DCS detecting current CPU load not in game. So if this is high then that means too many background apps?
@@Mark_Point hmm i thought thos was total use, not just background but total. Let me do a test or two this weekend and see
@@plazma1945 It might be, I'm really not sure. It has total already and update(?)
i use intel iris xe graphics but get only 20 fps at lowest setting and lowest resolution.
AT the lowest resolution, i should have get at least 40 fps.
I have ssd and 16gb ram.
Direct x 11 vs 12 check latest video from linus tech tips on the new intel video cards!
I have a Ryzen 5 6 core Prozessor and a AMD 5700 Graphic card and have no Problems.
So all the technic nerds outside dont loose your money to buy this awesome expensive pc components.
Oh and i have actually only 16gb ram. Lol.
Cries in 8gb ram
You need more brother
Ifyoure in Canada I'll send you some
so this is how Nvidia "Sponsors" games like these
Hahahahhaa no no one sponsors me.. Id love it but i dont
👍
test is totally inaccurate and results are invalid. in the F5 test once the canopy is open - while closed the second time. :D
LOLOLOL.. okay hahahah
Waiting ED can improve it
Might be a while, for now its up to map and mission deaigners to keep this in mind.
Also more important you can noa check in game to see what is really adding that flag and affecting the performance is it the shadows and the graphics or is it a simulation or something else.
But how long would the wait be???
I have i9 13 gen. 128 gb ram. Rtx 4090.
It is still lagging.
ok something is wrong in the settings what resolution are you flying in are you using vr or 2d.. and on which map and server. if you have a su-27 get into the Bomber intercept mission and just fly it for a few minutes with CTRL pause to show your FPS.. let me know how it works out.. When you are looking at CTRL PAUSE details look for which numbers are the highest, whats eating up your resources?
@@plazma1945 thanks for your comment.
I don’t play on any specific server, because I am very new to this game, and I haven’t fired a single shot since I installed the game.
I don’t have vr but my screen resolution is 3440x1440. I will check the fps and other stuffs tomorrow.
@@omid877 ok set your settings to medium preset try that. Next try high but take off shadows all shadows disabled.. The slowly add shadows back in. If you press left or right I always mix up CTRL+Pause you will get that fps screen I'm showing above.
Also make sure your pc is not doing anything else, like no surfing youtube music. Try to run just dcs at first.
Also antivirus can cause your dcs to stutter see if you can pause the antivirus for a little bit
@@plazma1945 it shows 299 fps in normal.
It’s just crazy, it jumps from 300 all the way down to 10 fps rapidly.
@@omid877 whoa.. Ummmm lol whoa.. Use max fps slider set it to 120 see if it holds to it. Press ctrl pause twice it will show more stuff like detailed breakdown look for any numbers larger than 5.0 or 7.0 on that list
Like shadows mirrors etc etc
u need 12th cpu， my 12700k help me gain about 20 fps than 10700k
Really
Must.
Must be the update handling of the single thread performance! Hmm ill see what i can do, maybe upgrade in a year for me
Internet speed (150mb, 300, 1000 up/down), ram, in game grqphic settings, CPU... All play a role.
cope
One Word Thud getting 60-70 in GS
nice.. 2d or vr sir. and how you doin?
@@plazma1945 fine and you
This is why we need to h ave MULTI GPU THREAD SUPPORT!.... could you imagine how nice it would be if we could see the munitions and bombs being processed on one of the other six cores
no
Buddy you must have a VERYYYYYYYYYY shit CPU or a failing GPU or CPU you must also Lack Ram I got 5600x 4.8ghz 3070 FE 64gb DDR4 3600mhz CL18 I avg 120 FPS sometimes 90 FPS on heavy servers so their is something wrong with your computer and not the game now basing off your GPU utilization your CPU is prob 100$ get a 5800x3d or I7 13700k or I5 14600k
10700k with 64gb ram
ssd drive and 64 gigs of memory gives over 200 fps average -
this is after the multithred update ???
Negative, the MP update made a big difference check the link in video description