One thing I was kind of surprised wasn’t mentioned were sleeping bag liners. I use the Cocoon Silk liner because it’s lightweight (4.5oz) adds some warmth, but also helps keep my bag clean and if I’m sleeping without layers it provides a soft layer between me and the pad. I like that I can crawl into bed with maybe “not so clean” clothes and it protects my quilt & pad from oils and dirt. Have you guys ever ran one or considered running one? I’m absolutely loving this series!!
Yes, we have used liners in the past, but don't personally use them these days. The benefits of warmth aren't needed (we're using clothes and the bivy for that), and the concern of keeping the pad/bag clean just isn't a big priority since we can easily clean those items in the off-season. Glad you're enjoying the series! Thanks for following along.
I think there is an old saying saying " 1 inch of insulation below you is worth/equal to 2 inches above you." Something like that. I can't count the number of times I've explained this to friends who've spent the night freezing on a non-insulated air mattress only to have them look at me like I'm trying to sell them a time share in North Korea.
My mates ended up learning that pretty quick after I said I had to strip off and leave my arms and feet out after they told me they had to throw on balaclavas and make sure everything was sealed. I have a Nemo tensor EC pad with a crazy R rating of 8.5. They had one of the really thick pads from sea to summit with something like 2. They're comfortable and they're warm, but we were below freezing that night and had a small chance of snow, so it just didn't cut it. I think the EC can handle arctic conditions and I've never even hiked in the snow before, so it's definitely overkill, but it basically guarantees that I won't be cold.
Pad is critical! Well done video. I use a Nemo Tensor Alpine for most colder hunts with a Nemo Sonic 0 for sleeping bag (it was not intentional for same brand just worked out that way) with it as I am a side and belly sleeper. But I use an Underground Quilt Company semi-custom quilt with just a foam pad on warmer nights. I tend to sleep a litte bit warm most of the time.
Great video. Great series. Good information and tips; really helpful. A couple of thoughts: ZenBivy makes 'hoods' for quilts, they call them 'sheets' for whatever reason. Several companies make down balaclavas, another alternative. The S-to-S 'inflator bag' doubles a dry sack. ~6 oz. but gets mixed reviews. Which brings us right back to the point you make, time and again - carry what you need but no more.
LOVE this series!! Keep it up! Love seeing your thoughts on gear When you are doing a bivy sack, where do you put your pack? Especially if it's going to rain
If using a bivy in the rain, we generally have our tarp, which has enough space to cover our pack/gear as well. Another option would be to have a contractor bag on hand for gear cover/storage overnight.
Hey Steve! One of the arguments I’ve seen on pumps etc for pads is the humidity from your mouth inside the bag. Have you seen anything like that on your longer use pads? Or is that marketing fluff! Thanks.
I guess there could be some truth in there and could maybe be made worse if the pad is using an insulation that could absorb moisture. In the real world though and especially with most sleeping pads using relflective materials for their insulation it’s not something I have ever been concerned about. I had the same Therma rest neo air pad for 8 + years with countless nights slept on it and never had an issue. - Steve
It's not a big deal, but if you blow the pad up with hot breath in cold weather, and let the pad sit, it will deflate causing you to have to refill it a little more. Also, moisture transfers heat better than air so there is a theory that breath can lower the r value ever so slightly due to the moisture. Not sure I buy that but something to consider.
Plenty of pads now use bag inflation which you wouldnt even need to breath into if you didnt want to. Open into the air like a parachute or kite seal the top and squeeze. Much faster than by mouth as well. My pad fully inflates with 3-4 bag fills thats it.
@@greasemonkey4god same here that's why its worth it for me. I dont care about light-headed etc but I do like speed. Especially getting into camp late etc.
@ExoMtnGear, thanks for the thoughtful content and explaining your underlying rationale. You and Mark do a great job on the podcast as well. One thing that I find personally irksome with the Xtherm is the noise from the mylar film. I'm a combat veteran who seems to wake up at the slightest noise, even with ear plugs, so I personally look for quieter materials. I know the new Xtherm version is quieter, but it's still too crinkly for my tastes. I love my Katabatic quilt and feel that it def punches above its weight class, although I've also noticed that the clips sometimes pop off the retention cords. Great information!
Yeah I have heard people complain about the noise of the Therma rest pads but in practice it's not something that bothers me at all. If I'm turning / moving in my sleep I'm already awake and don't see it as a big deal. - Steve
I have used 20inch wide pads and even as a shorter guy the wider pad is just much more comfortable. Especially as I also toss and turn. One thing I do hate is a noisy pad, sleeping on what sounds like a potato chip bag is very annoying.
surplus usgi intermediate bag in a goretex bivvy with a zfold underneath and an insulated inflatable inside between the bag and bivvy. has worked great for me and very affordable compared to the high speed gear.
I'm a side sleeper and have been watching you content for years. Thinking about getting a katabtic quilt. What are your thoughts on sewn footbox vs one you can cinch up?
We strongly prefer the sewn footbox. It is better at handling drafts and cold temps, but it is still easy to partially use and ventilate when it is warmer.
This is great stuff. Thanks a bunch!! A couple questions. It seems the sewn foot box acts much like a mummy bag. Meaning when you turn over, doesn’t that thing move with you, which drives me nuts in a mummy. How is the direct contact with the pad with the quilt. Do you ever feel clammy? Ever have it in direct contact with your skin? Btw, huge fan of sleeping pills at night, along with ear plugs. Keeps the monsters away…. 🤣🤣. Thanks again for this information. Love it!!
The sewn footbox on the quilts we have used is spacious enough to allow you to move inside the quilt easily, so that hasn't been an issue. We generally sleep in a light clothing layer, so the next-to-skin contact on the pad isn't something we experience.
On Different loft weights… with higher fill power and more loft is there a chance that it becomes more prone to being compressed and loosing its insulation rating? If that makes sense… like since 650 is more dense anyhow I was thinking it would be less prone getting squished rather than a more fluffy one…. Also- testing a quilt next weekend in the mountains and I’m excited!
No, how they come stock is perfect. In our experience they are very conservatively rated, the Alsek 22 is probably closer to a 15-20 Degree quilt / sleeping bag by other companies. - Steve
The Enlightened Equipment Recon bivy is what is shown in this video, but it is no longer made. The Katabatic Pinon is a similar-style bivy, which is available, and which we have also used and like.
![The Clothing Layers You Need for Backpack Hunting - The Experience Project [EXP008]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZtdM5A1k2Lw/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Clothing Layers You Need for Backpack Hunting — The Experience Project [EXP008]](/img/tr.png)
![Shelters for Backpack Hunting (Bivy, Tarps, Tipis & Tents) - The Experience Project [EXP006]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Cb7TZb1EkM8/mqdefault.jpg)
One thing I was kind of surprised wasn’t mentioned were sleeping bag liners. I use the Cocoon Silk liner because it’s lightweight (4.5oz) adds some warmth, but also helps keep my bag clean and if I’m sleeping without layers it provides a soft layer between me and the pad. I like that I can crawl into bed with maybe “not so clean” clothes and it protects my quilt & pad from oils and dirt. Have you guys ever ran one or considered running one?
I’m absolutely loving this series!!
Yes, we have used liners in the past, but don't personally use them these days. The benefits of warmth aren't needed (we're using clothes and the bivy for that), and the concern of keeping the pad/bag clean just isn't a big priority since we can easily clean those items in the off-season. Glad you're enjoying the series! Thanks for following along.
Silk liners are huge too. And when sharing a tent, both an eyeshade/mask and earplugs have made my sleep much better.
I think there is an old saying saying " 1 inch of insulation below you is worth/equal to 2 inches above you." Something like that. I can't count the number of times I've explained this to friends who've spent the night freezing on a non-insulated air mattress only to have them look at me like I'm trying to sell them a time share in North Korea.
My mates ended up learning that pretty quick after I said I had to strip off and leave my arms and feet out after they told me they had to throw on balaclavas and make sure everything was sealed.
I have a Nemo tensor EC pad with a crazy R rating of 8.5. They had one of the really thick pads from sea to summit with something like 2. They're comfortable and they're warm, but we were below freezing that night and had a small chance of snow, so it just didn't cut it. I think the EC can handle arctic conditions and I've never even hiked in the snow before, so it's definitely overkill, but it basically guarantees that I won't be cold.
You ain't lying about that Aquaseal. I bought a tube last month to repair my waders and I've been fixing everything with it now.
Yeah it is incredible stuff.
Pad is critical! Well done video. I use a Nemo Tensor Alpine for most colder hunts with a Nemo Sonic 0 for sleeping bag (it was not intentional for same brand just worked out that way) with it as I am a side and belly sleeper. But I use an Underground Quilt Company semi-custom quilt with just a foam pad on warmer nights. I tend to sleep a litte bit warm most of the time.
Great video. Great series. Good information and tips; really helpful. A couple of thoughts: ZenBivy makes 'hoods' for quilts, they call them 'sheets' for whatever reason. Several companies make down balaclavas, another alternative. The S-to-S 'inflator bag' doubles a dry sack. ~6 oz. but gets mixed reviews. Which brings us right back to the point you make, time and again - carry what you need but no more.
Continue to love this video series, nicely done!!! Weren't you guys raving about the tiny pump in your podcast? ;)
LOVE this series!! Keep it up! Love seeing your thoughts on gear
When you are doing a bivy sack, where do you put your pack? Especially if it's going to rain
If using a bivy in the rain, we generally have our tarp, which has enough space to cover our pack/gear as well. Another option would be to have a contractor bag on hand for gear cover/storage overnight.
Hey Steve! One of the arguments I’ve seen on pumps etc for pads is the humidity from your mouth inside the bag. Have you seen anything like that on your longer use pads? Or is that marketing fluff! Thanks.
I guess there could be some truth in there and could maybe be made worse if the pad is using an insulation that could absorb moisture. In the real world though and especially with most sleeping pads using relflective materials for their insulation it’s not something I have ever been concerned about. I had the same Therma rest neo air pad for 8 + years with countless nights slept on it and never had an issue. - Steve
It's not a big deal, but if you blow the pad up with hot breath in cold weather, and let the pad sit, it will deflate causing you to have to refill it a little more. Also, moisture transfers heat better than air so there is a theory that breath can lower the r value ever so slightly due to the moisture. Not sure I buy that but something to consider.
Plenty of pads now use bag inflation which you wouldnt even need to breath into if you didnt want to. Open into the air like a parachute or kite seal the top and squeeze. Much faster than by mouth as well. My pad fully inflates with 3-4 bag fills thats it.
@@Joel_Unbound correct. That does add a little bit of weight of course but I’m not a gram counter. Probably an ounce counter…
@@greasemonkey4god same here that's why its worth it for me. I dont care about light-headed etc but I do like speed. Especially getting into camp late etc.
One thing for staying warm I have seen is that some people get down booties which make can a big difference(it works unlike doubling up on socks).
@ExoMtnGear, thanks for the thoughtful content and explaining your underlying rationale. You and Mark do a great job on the podcast as well. One thing that I find personally irksome with the Xtherm is the noise from the mylar film. I'm a combat veteran who seems to wake up at the slightest noise, even with ear plugs, so I personally look for quieter materials. I know the new Xtherm version is quieter, but it's still too crinkly for my tastes. I love my Katabatic quilt and feel that it def punches above its weight class, although I've also noticed that the clips sometimes pop off the retention cords. Great information!
Yeah I have heard people complain about the noise of the Therma rest pads but in practice it's not something that bothers me at all. If I'm turning / moving in my sleep I'm already awake and don't see it as a big deal. - Steve
Just an FYI on the X Therm - it is a 7.3R value, not 8+ … still insanely warm, just wanted to note that!
I have used 20inch wide pads and even as a shorter guy the wider pad is just much more comfortable. Especially as I also toss and turn. One thing I do hate is a noisy pad, sleeping on what sounds like a potato chip bag is very annoying.
surplus usgi intermediate bag in a goretex bivvy with a zfold underneath and an insulated inflatable inside between the bag and bivvy. has worked great for me and very affordable compared to the high speed gear.
Enigma with kylmite and a ground trap sleeps comfy for about 1lbs system. It's learning to layering with it.
I think the one missing is a ZENbivy. A true hybrid of Bag and Quilt. Best for nights sleep!
I'm a side sleeper and have been watching you content for years. Thinking about getting a katabtic quilt. What are your thoughts on sewn footbox vs one you can cinch up?
We strongly prefer the sewn footbox. It is better at handling drafts and cold temps, but it is still easy to partially use and ventilate when it is warmer.
This is great stuff. Thanks a bunch!! A couple questions. It seems the sewn foot box acts much like a mummy bag. Meaning when you turn over, doesn’t that thing move with you, which drives me nuts in a mummy. How is the direct contact with the pad with the quilt. Do you ever feel clammy? Ever have it in direct contact with your skin? Btw, huge fan of sleeping pills at night, along with ear plugs. Keeps the monsters away…. 🤣🤣. Thanks again for this information. Love it!!
The sewn footbox on the quilts we have used is spacious enough to allow you to move inside the quilt easily, so that hasn't been an issue. We generally sleep in a light clothing layer, so the next-to-skin contact on the pad isn't something we experience.
On Different loft weights… with higher fill power and more loft is there a chance that it becomes more prone to being compressed and loosing its insulation rating? If that makes sense… like since 650 is more dense anyhow I was thinking it would be less prone getting squished rather than a more fluffy one….
Also- testing a quilt next weekend in the mountains and I’m excited!
I think there is some validity to what you are saying and feel like 850 is a good sweet spot of weight vs performance. - Steve
@@ExoMtnGear thanks for the responses. I just realized the podcast hit too so I’ll be listening to that shortly! Appreciate what you are doing.
I can’t wait until the hunting crowd discovers the Zen bivy 👍
They certainly have a following with some hunters
Is this something I should look into? Been considering a bivy tent for my upcoming elk hunt
@@nativewarrior5052 Zenbivy is a quilt sheet system that mimics a bed, its very comfortable
@@nativewarrior5052it’s not a body style tent it’s a sleep system called zen bivy
Any experience with the Outdoor Vitals Stormloft quilt?
No, we do not have much experience with OV quilts.
Any overfill added to the katabatic quilts? If so, how many ounces? Thanks!
No, how they come stock is perfect. In our experience they are very conservatively rated, the Alsek 22 is probably closer to a 15-20 Degree quilt / sleeping bag by other companies. - Steve
@@ExoMtnGear Steve, thank you so much. Good luck this fall! Appreciate all you do to impart knowledge for us newbies
Pretty sure the ground heat loss is conduction, not convenction :)
Yep. But we knew what you meant, Steve.
What bivy sack is this? Great video!
The Enlightened Equipment Recon bivy is what is shown in this video, but it is no longer made. The Katabatic Pinon is a similar-style bivy, which is available, and which we have also used and like.