Back in the 80s my friends and I called it Pop metal or Glam metal. We never heard the term "hair metal" back then. I never heard it until the 90s when it was over and people started making fun of it
IMHO the "Hub" of the GLAM rock bands should be: Motley Crue Ratt Poison Bon Jovi Dokken Honorable mentions: Quiet Riot Twisted Sister The three W's ( Warrant, Winger, White Lion). Good show as usual gents! Enjoyed this episode and Happy New Year to your and your familes.
I’d put Motley Crue as #1. Thru we’re highly influential to the whole Glam scene. Bon Jovi…I feel they were more like Night Ranger, Loverboy and like. More AOR like than Glam. Just my 2 cents. I always enjoy these shows that you guys do every Friday.
My favorite music is hair metal. I'm kinda new to Sea of Tranquility and having a great time watching the videos. Keep the hair metal content coming. Crue Rules! Love Dokken maybe more.
Great show - thank you. My Hair/Glam Metal Bike Wheel looks a little different 😊 Mötley Crüe (the blueprint of the L.A. Glam-Metal scene) Europe (the fathers of the European hair scene in general and of the quite important Swedish movement in particular) Bon Jovi (definitely the representatives of the keyboard-heavy AORish hair metal/hard rock sound) Poison (there is no way around it - when it comes to the poppy direction of the style) Guns N‘ Roses (almost to be interpreted as the representatives of the 2nd movement, in whose wake all the sleaze rockers had a short peak and - above all - the L.A.-look changed a little bit)
Finally watching this episode… wasn’t expecting Poison to be mentioned, less that Pete took the lead on the discussion, and do it so impartially and mostly in a positive manner… kudos Pete!
Something to interesting to consider is most of these bands traveled the same road and played the same venues as more typical metal or even thrash bands. Cinderella came up here in Philly playing the Empire Rock Club. One weekend there would be Cinderella and the following week would be Kreator. There is a connection to the metal scene.
Pete you mentioned that this genre is very Americana and I totally agree. It was always weird to me thinking and a band like Van Halen touring and being well received anywhere else than Canada and the US. Great show and Happy New Year! The fall season seems appropriate for SOT Fest so hopefully that happens.
I just actually listened to Vain's discography on Spotify recently. Wow, Davy has such a unique voice. Most of their stuff is amazingly listenable on the merit of his singing alone. I don't know if I've heard anyone else like him.
Glad to finally hear Kix mentioned, albeit briefly, on a SoT video. Really...these guys don't get talked about near enough. There's always talk on SoT about "deep album cuts" being better than the singles. Well...there's probably no better example in the "Hair/Glam Metal" category for great album cuts than Kix. (Probably because outside of "Don't Close Your Eyes" and "Girl Money" they really didn't have any singles.) "Poison" from their debut album is an absolute classic on an album that is criminally overlooked.
Enjoyed seeing folks in chat and Martin and Pete great fun conversation this Friday. Thanks as always. Tomorrow will be my birhday, Take care. everyone.
Thanks for this episode. Dabbled a bit in Glam Metal here and there, but now that people on SOT speak highly of Ratt, Great White, even early Mötley Crüe I might have to take it one step further.
Glam was pretty big as far as the charts go in Aussie and New Zealand. Was surprised by the amount of glam fashion on display from the audience at a Motley Show I went to a few years ago in Brisbane. Also, Ratt, I'd definitely put them at the hubb, Image and sound. And every time I put on a Ratt album my wife rolls her eyes and comments I must still be in my hair metal phase....
Heavy metal fans know nothing about phases or trends, we are fans for life! It's in our DNA - your wife should sign up for RATT fan club and live a louder life 🤘🤘🤘cheers!
I think the last two bands to get really big from this genre were Firehouse and Slaughter. They had double platinum debut albums, and Firehouse had several huge radio hits. Firehouse probably had the last hit song of anyone in this style.
Definitely Mötley Crüe, Poison, Bon Jovi, Skid Row, and Dokken. You guys pretty much covered most of them! I would add Def Leppard too. Look at the guys' hair in the late 80s!
Very interesting that Def Leppard was also part of the NWOBHM Bike Wheel... first 2 albums definitely NWOBHM, Pyromania crossed over and then from Hysteria on they were the picture of glam/hair metal.
14:52 "what kind of pop is in this?" it's just one notch of heaviness above Meat Loaf, Don Henly, Richard Marx, Bryan Adams, Michael Bolton, Toto (and all the acts they played the music for)... if you take those those acts who are 75% ballads and 25% rockers on the album and flip it to 25% ballads and 75% rockers you get hair metal. in the end, they're all basically songs written by Diane Warren and/or Desmond Child with Steve Lukather, Dann Huff, Michael Landau on guitar and Randy Jackson on bass, guest appearances by Axl Rose or Stephen Tyler or Kip Winger on vocals or Tommy Lee on drums or Slash on guitar
Every genre have their good bands and bad bands. It's sad that some judge the whole genre solely on their unfavorable aspects. If you have a good ear for music, you'll find that Glam metal have some of the best melodies, rhythms and hooks compared to all other sub-genres. Not to mention that many are progressive and have excellent musicians and vocalists. But like these two in the video, most of their criticism is on the band's appearance, not their music. Comparing Glam to the small wheel on a bike? Glam is just as diverse (if not, more) than all the other rock band sub-genres that are out there.
Oh man, you nailed it so perfectly! A lot of excellent musicians in those bands, hooks aplenty and the music is simply shitloads of fun - has a lot of life to it! Loved reading your comment - hope haters read it and reassess their prejudice towards party metal....that's my term for it! Peace, brother.
I bought a ton of albums in the 80s but I never bought a poster. I was looking for good rock songs and had much better luck with that than I did in the 90s.
Great show again guys . I would like to refer you to Lionel Richie’s Acceptance speech at 2022 RRHOF and suggest that one band got lucky with the look/sound and got signed to a big label and so the “movement “ was born. “Hair metal” was only a thing in UK when Saxon and Priest got hairstylists 🤷🏻♂️
awesome Pete! great job too Martin with the Bob Rock and bruce reference as they were really pumpin' it out at that time. I yhink it needs to be mentioned the huge integral part that Desmond child played to many band during this era as well writing or co-writing So many hits fior so many groups as well, it was a great time!!
I want to echo some of the other posts - Motley Crue should be in the hub over Dokken, definitely more than Warrant, who were a late arrival as Pete mentioned.
That could be a good topic for a show - the double-edged hit that in the short term makes a band a load of money but perhaps harms their career in the long term.
When I dug into Led Zeppelin I was surprised at how much of an influence they were on hair metal. Not just the vocal style but the pop choruses they sometimes put between Jimmy Page's big riffs. Aerosmith and Van Halen distilled into shorter songs and then hair metal simplified it even more.
I would keep out Cinderella (too bluesy), Bon Jovi (the heartland/Stringsteen thing, the AOR) and Dokken (melodic metal) and add D'Molls, Pretty Boy Floyd and Steelheart. The latter being a perfect example of the genre - a strong singer, flashy musicianship, polished production, power ballads, some heavy songs, pop hooks, photogenic, memorable music videos, female attraction...
I believe of all of the hair metal bands mentioned, Bon Jovi are the only ones inducted into the Rock 'n roll Hall of Fame (not that it means anything special, but they did/do have mass appeal).
Interesting take. I see Motley Crue as the central band, the center of the hub so to speak. Dokken; Lizzie Borden; Warrant; Loudness; some of those would make up the rest of the hub.
Where doe's Tesla fit into all this? I feel like they aren't far off from bands like Cinderella and Ratt, but they were more real "rock" and less image. I think they're more of a hard rock band with a hint of metal at times? One of the best in this discussion of bands IMO. They deserve way more credit!
Yup Mechanicsburg pa is where they are from. My cell mate from SCI Camp Hill claims his sister dated Brett Michael's in high school right before he left for LA. That is when I first learned he was from Pennsylvania because I just wasn't into that type of music much growing up. Some of the hair bands have songs I can appreciate now but that's few I like harder stuff and better lyrics. I didn't know Cinderella was from Pennsylvania but makes sense why so many of the older girls back than in my area freaking loved Cinderella. All my buddies older sisters my sister wasn't she was into the punk, grunge, industrial, and electronic club music.
I remember Pete saying he thought Tesla was what he wished Aerosmith should have been in the 80s. I think Cinderella is a better example. I wish Aerosmith sounded like Cinderella in the 80s.
While it's nearly impossible to separate the bands from the videos, I wonder how these groups would be perceived in hindsight w/o MTV. To me, the only thing that really separates something like "Cherry Pie" from an earlier song like "Cat Scratch Fever" is the cheesy video. Of course the videos were a huge marketing tool at the time and helped to sell tons of albums for the bands in question, but in short order became an albatross that they largely just couldn't shake ... even now with the "hair metal" tag. Those videos were intended to be played for 3 or 4 months and forgotten, so it's really too bad that those bands will forever be typecast because of something that was made strictly for marketing purposes. Great show as always, guys!
Fun video! I would add one characteristic at the hub (if not mentioned?): specific stage moves, esp. throwing the guitar over the shoulder. Though I enjoy hair metal, I side with those that recall it as a derogatory term: it was frivolous music; less serious and less heavy. Even the 'earnest' songs were betrayed by the bands' reputation. Because of this, I just don't see Dokken at the hub. Poison is probably the #1 choice: the crack-cocaine of the art form, synthesized in a lab for maximum impact. (Though they did lack the guitar-hero aspect, as CC just wasn't that.)
Outside of the song Cherry Pie, I think Jani really was a great lyricist on both the Cherry Pie album and on Dog Eat Dog. THAT album was amazing and it's too bad it was the last great thing Warrant did.
Hair metal, or poodle rock as some called it here in Sweden, was fairly popular here for a while but wasn’t huge. I never really heard it on radio back then, ironically this is now a very popular genre of classic rock radio stations
As a 70's fan of hard rock (Purple/Sabbath/Zeppelin) 🎵🎶...I was usually apauled at this period of hard rock music (apart from dP). However, it almost seems digestible these days, compared to the "grungy alternative" that followed it. 😂
Motley Crue has to be right at the hub for me. Not only for the link to anything resembling the 'metal' part of this equation with Shout at the Devil (goofy occult and leather, controversy etc); but also that immediate pivot into pink n' fluffy land with Theatre of Pain. Which also gave us the whole idea of the hit power ballad. Other choices that spring immediately to mind.. Poison Cinderella Ratt Warrant For me Bon Jovi are more what I'd term 'soundtrack rock', having more in common with early 80s AOR bands/Bryan Adams and similar. Dokken just seem a little bit 'sophisticated' for me to me to be right at the hub. Close, for sure, but not quite at the centre for me. The ones that immediately spring to my mind have more of an emphasis on trash n' sleaze, rather than any hint of 'melodic metal classiness'.
I feel like someone should mention poor old Great White. Certainly a major player of the hair metal game. I don't know which hub to put them near. One of you mentioned Zeppelin clones.
I was going to say them as well. Great White an important early band that like Dokken, Ratt, etc. started in the late 70s as Dante Fox, evolved into Great White and had an indie LP in 82 a year after Motley (and that Don Dokken and Michael Wagner produced and engineered). And they were more of a metal band with a Zep jones early on that evolved more into the bluesy thing as albums went on and they got bigger and bigger.
Hey Scott - Great White were from my neighborhood ( let em drink all my Heinekens one night! Gladly so! ) and Mark Kendall was a legend on guitar here, even before Great White! Jack could sure sing, nice, bluesy, soulful voice and has some similarities to my ultimate vocalist, Robert Plant! Some stellar songs from Great White and really proud of their success. The concert fire at their gig was soul crushing, still can't believe out of all the bands on this planet, it happened to my friends in Great White.....RIP to all who perished in fire. Take care.
If you're of a certain age, you might remember when generic food items began appearing in grocery stores. They came in packaging with plain white labels that had the contents spelled out in black block lettering (i.e., GREEN BEANS). I've often thought that if you opened a CD with a plain white label that said ROCK BAND on it, the band on that CD would be Bon Jovi. They are, to me, as generic as it's possible for a rock band to be. Their music is perfectly competent in both composition and performance, without being distinctive or interesting or unique in any way. Which explains, I think, Bon Jovi's popularity: it's lowest-common-denominator rock music. It appeals to a wide audience without offering any substance or challenge that might turn anyone off. It's the musical equivalent of a can of generic green beans -- if you like green beans, that's what this is.
@@danielreynolds7458 Yeah, they're another example. The Foos came out of the grunge movement, so they have that tonality to their style, but it's a totally generic representation. I could listen to an entire Foo Fighters album (maybe their entire discography) and not remember a single note an hour later.
Sorry I need some clarification, How is Warrant, who you just said didn't come on the scene until the end of the 80's, at the core of at the movement? Seems a little contradictive to me.
@@Chaz4543 So I agree with you. Firehouse was one of the last to make it before grunge came along. However my comment wasn't about who was the last band it was about if your talking about the core/hub of something what does the last anything have to do with it. The point is who are the originals.
It's not easy to categorize Appetite for Destruction by Guns N' Roses. The Wiki article cites 4 tags - Hard Rock, Heavy Metal, Hair Metal, Blues Rock. I like the way Martin breaks down the nuances into 'Dirty Hair Metal' and other 'microgenres'. But for someone like myself, especially from a younger generation - GnR do seem to fit into the broader movement of this whole thing. I wish it was explored a bit more why the mention of them was brushed off - because if they're not hair metal - what are they?
before watching I'll choose Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, Poison, Warrant & Ratt - honorable mentions to Skid Row, Cinderella, Mr. Big, Winger, White Lion, Firehouse & Extreme - deep cuts to Badlands, Danger Danger, Steelheart, XYZ, Hardline & my borderline picks are (bands that I wouldn't call hair metal but others often do) to Tesla, Dokken, Scorpions, KISS, Def Leppard, Van Hagar, GNR, Whitesnake, Blue Murder, L.A. Guns & Great White, Damn Yankees
Ok, did not see Pete’s exposition by the time of my comment… 😂 Yes Pete, they were also big internationally. I saw them live in Caracas (Vzla) for the Keep The Faith album… pretty good (quite good) show. 🍻
You gotta include Ratt, Quite Riot, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, Great White, WASP, Night Ranger, Black n Blue, Kix, White Lion, Keel ( the first wave of Glam) Winger, GnR, Warrant, Slaughter, Britny Fox, Cinderella, Skid Row etc are all late to the party!
Faster Pussycat's first two albums were very good IMHO and they possibly might have been bigger but the first album got largely buried, having been released just two weeks before Appetite For Destruction.
Van Halen is at the center of this genre in my opinion. They check off all of the boxes described in this episode- front man/ shredder guitarist at front and center, Americana, clothes, hair, female fans in abundance, etc.
I disagee completely. Van Halen didn't glom on the make-up. The hair-band "metal" songs by these bands were like 3rd generation KISS/Aerosmith. I think VH forged a newer sound. DLR's lyrics had more of an edge. None of this limp-wristed "Every Rose Has It's Thorn" type songs. VH didn't do ballads until Hagar joined.
People can rag on it all they want, but this music is popular enough it has it OWN CHANNEL on SiriusXM. It can mostly be boiled down to Aerosmith meets Slade/Sweet, but so many bands got thrown into the pot just because of how they looked in their music videos, which were how you got your song played. As to the point Martin makes about country music, I can make a very good argument that mainstream country music in the 90s is incredibly analogous to 80s hair metal. Big, mega hooks and squeaky-clean production and hits basically coming off an assembly line.
Bon Jovi , Skid Row , GNR , Wasp , Motley Crue , Ratt , Winger , Sloughter , Warrant - many glam / heavy metal bands who mark decade like mainstream acts . ( today is not possible since hip -hop ate all ) .
wasn't hip hop's fault - record industry decided they didn't have room for metal and grunge and buried these bands - probably so they wouldn't have to keep / start paying them
Jani lane love him or hate em was a great songwriter ,should of moved to Nashville and would of made a king's ransom writing hit songs for other performers!!!
Motley Crue, would replace Cinderella. My reasoning is simple,, the Crue IS glam metal while Cinderella only made one glam albums the other three are even better. By the way Ratt should be close to the hub, but with twin guitar harmonies and a more metallic crunch to their sound!
Hair Metal, Glam Metal,...tomato, tomoto. Either way you call it it was still Metal, not always heavy, but sometimes often yes. If not, Hard Rock Metal for sure. Everyone had their hard hitting Metal edge songs. Yup, even Bon Jovi's first four albums, and Poison first three. You just had to listen to songs other than the hits, ballads, and seeing them live it was always Metal! First two Europe albums pre Final Countdown = Metal, first Great White album is Metal, White Lion- Fight To Survive = Metal. Bon Jovi debut and 7800 Fahrenheit is Metal. Poison- Look What the Cat Dragged In those riffs are surely Metal with catchy hooks
Can’t believe people get hung up on what you call it. For me it was almost just a period in time more than a genre. The NWOBHM is often referred to as a movement rather than a genre and it feels to me that the same thing kind of applies to these bands, it was almost more about the look than the music.
15:10 you're right - pop is a loose term - in the 40's it was Frank Sinatra, in the 50's in was rock n roll and Doo Wop, in the 60's it was the British Invasion and Motown in the 70's it was Disco and singer / songwriter... now it's autotune rap, retro songs being re-discovered by Netflix shows like Stranger Things and Wednesday Addams and Cobra Kai and on TikTok
Great discussion! Hanoi Rocks is an interesting band in this aspect. For some reason I wouldn´t count them as a hair/glam metal band. They are definitely glam rock. What are your thoughts about Hanoi Rocks in this discussion?
@@MartinPopoff My thoughts exactly. I just lifted them up because from outside they should fit in, but at the same time I clearly hear that they don´t fit musically at all.
I have been surprised at the value of some Hair Metal LPs recently. I have seen Warrant - Cherry Pie and Mike Tramp's Freak of Nature albums on vinyl for £100 ($110) in second hand record shops recently.
Love this but talking bout dokken martin seems to have a love/hate thing for hair metal. There is crap out there but lots to love in the bands depending on who you liked
the Pop in Pop Music is short Popular for these certain artists and the music they perform is just that Popular being artists such as Elton John, Madonna, Coldplay, Michael Jackson, Lady Gaga and etc.
Back in the 80s my friends and I called it Pop metal or Glam metal. We never heard the term "hair metal" back then. I never heard it until the 90s when it was over and people started making fun of it
IMHO the "Hub" of the GLAM rock bands should be:
Motley Crue
Ratt
Poison
Bon Jovi
Dokken
Honorable mentions:
Quiet Riot
Twisted Sister
The three W's ( Warrant, Winger, White Lion).
Good show as usual gents!
Enjoyed this episode and Happy New Year to your and your familes.
Great picks,I would add Cinderella,blues rock or not,def glam,also Tesla,and Night ranger,etc
Yup I think your 5 are spot on.
Thanks guys, I enjoyed the trip back with additional insights. Happy New Year!
Great Friday show. As usual. Thx Martin/ PETE. Great topic 👍💯
I’d put Motley Crue as #1. Thru we’re highly influential to the whole Glam scene. Bon Jovi…I feel they were more like Night Ranger, Loverboy and like. More AOR like than Glam. Just my 2 cents. I always enjoy these shows that you guys do every Friday.
A totally appropriate to bring up the different type of bike analogy Martin. Glad you added a 3rd episode to this topic.
My favorite music is hair metal. I'm kinda new to Sea of Tranquility and having a great time watching the videos. Keep the hair metal content coming. Crue Rules! Love Dokken maybe more.
I think it is the best channel for everything rock. Great topics and Martin has written dozens of books.
Great episode. I like these bike wheel episodes.
Great show - thank you.
My Hair/Glam Metal Bike Wheel looks a little different 😊
Mötley Crüe (the blueprint of the L.A. Glam-Metal scene)
Europe (the fathers of the European hair scene in general and of the quite important Swedish movement in particular)
Bon Jovi (definitely the representatives of the keyboard-heavy AORish hair metal/hard rock sound)
Poison (there is no way around it - when it comes to the poppy direction of the style)
Guns N‘ Roses (almost to be interpreted as the representatives of the 2nd movement, in whose wake all the sleaze rockers had a short peak and - above all - the L.A.-look changed a little bit)
Finally watching this episode… wasn’t expecting Poison to be mentioned, less that Pete took the lead on the discussion, and do it so impartially and mostly in a positive manner… kudos Pete!
Something to interesting to consider is most of these bands traveled the same road and played the same venues as more typical metal or even thrash bands.
Cinderella came up here in Philly playing the Empire Rock Club. One weekend there would be Cinderella and the following week would be Kreator.
There is a connection to the metal scene.
Pete you mentioned that this genre is very Americana and I totally agree. It was always weird to me thinking and a band like Van Halen touring and being well received anywhere else than Canada and the US. Great show and Happy New Year! The fall season seems appropriate for SOT Fest so hopefully that happens.
Vain had an amazing debut album 🎸
I just actually listened to Vain's discography on Spotify recently. Wow, Davy has such a unique voice. Most of their stuff is amazingly listenable on the merit of his singing alone. I don't know if I've heard anyone else like him.
Glad to finally hear Kix mentioned, albeit briefly, on a SoT video. Really...these guys don't get talked about near enough. There's always talk on SoT about "deep album cuts" being better than the singles. Well...there's probably no better example in the "Hair/Glam Metal" category for great album cuts than Kix. (Probably because outside of "Don't Close Your Eyes" and "Girl Money" they really didn't have any singles.) "Poison" from their debut album is an absolute classic on an album that is criminally overlooked.
Bon Jovi is quite big in Europe their lateat tour was sold out. Happy New Year to you Martin and Pete
Enjoyed seeing folks in chat and Martin and Pete great fun conversation this Friday. Thanks as always. Tomorrow will be my birhday, Take care. everyone.
Happy Birthday Jon! Tell me what you did for fun later.
@@joedolenza7944 My birthday is the 31st. Its been a real hard rough year. No plans just enjoy my own company suppose to rain during the day. TC
Thanks for this episode.
Dabbled a bit in Glam Metal here and there, but now that people on SOT speak highly of Ratt, Great White, even early Mötley Crüe I might have to take it one step further.
Glam was pretty big as far as the charts go in Aussie and New Zealand. Was surprised by the amount of glam fashion on display from the audience at a Motley Show I went to a few years ago in Brisbane. Also, Ratt, I'd definitely put them at the hubb, Image and sound. And every time I put on a Ratt album my wife rolls her eyes and comments I must still be in my hair metal phase....
Round And Round is a good song. I dig some Motley Crue, Skid Row, Warrant and Poison as well.
Heavy metal fans know nothing about phases or trends, we are fans for life! It's in our DNA - your wife should sign up for RATT fan club and live a louder life 🤘🤘🤘cheers!
I think the last two bands to get really big from this genre were Firehouse and Slaughter. They had double platinum debut albums, and Firehouse had several huge radio hits. Firehouse probably had the last hit song of anyone in this style.
Definitely Mötley Crüe, Poison, Bon Jovi, Skid Row, and Dokken. You guys pretty much covered most of them! I would add Def Leppard too. Look at the guys' hair in the late 80s!
1) Dokken @4:00
2) Poison @9:45
3) Warrant @16:25
4) Cinderella @20:48
5) Bon Jovi @24:30
Very interesting that Def Leppard was also part of the NWOBHM Bike Wheel... first 2 albums definitely NWOBHM, Pyromania crossed over and then from Hysteria on they were the picture of glam/hair metal.
I wouldn't call High and Dry NWOBHM. More like AC/DC-ish hard rock. On Through the Night is NWOBHM through and through.
Really unique voice in Davy Vain, great debut!
14:52 "what kind of pop is in this?" it's just one notch of heaviness above Meat Loaf, Don Henly, Richard Marx, Bryan Adams, Michael Bolton, Toto (and all the acts they played the music for)... if you take those those acts who are 75% ballads and 25% rockers on the album and flip it to 25% ballads and 75% rockers you get hair metal. in the end, they're all basically songs written by Diane Warren and/or Desmond Child with Steve Lukather, Dann Huff, Michael Landau on guitar and Randy Jackson on bass, guest appearances by Axl Rose or Stephen Tyler or Kip Winger on vocals or Tommy Lee on drums or Slash on guitar
Every genre have their good bands and bad bands. It's sad that some judge the whole genre solely on their unfavorable aspects. If you have a good ear for music, you'll find that Glam metal have some of the best melodies, rhythms and hooks compared to all other sub-genres. Not to mention that many are progressive and have excellent musicians and vocalists. But like these two in the video, most of their criticism is on the band's appearance, not their music. Comparing Glam to the small wheel on a bike? Glam is just as diverse (if not, more) than all the other rock band sub-genres that are out there.
Oh man, you nailed it so perfectly! A lot of excellent musicians in those bands, hooks aplenty and the music is simply shitloads of fun - has a lot of life to it! Loved reading your comment - hope haters read it and reassess their prejudice towards party metal....that's my term for it! Peace, brother.
I bought a ton of albums in the 80s but I never bought a poster. I was looking for good rock songs and had much better luck with that than I did in the 90s.
Great show again guys . I would like to refer you to Lionel Richie’s Acceptance speech at 2022 RRHOF and suggest that one band got lucky with the look/sound and got signed to a big label and so the “movement “ was born. “Hair metal” was only a thing in UK when Saxon and Priest got hairstylists 🤷🏻♂️
Tko - In your face from 1984 album was very good.
I got one that would blow you guys away Dirty looks!!
Nice video...Nice bands.👍
awesome Pete! great job too Martin with the Bob Rock and bruce reference as they were really pumpin' it out at that time. I yhink it needs to be mentioned the huge integral part that Desmond child played to many band during this era as well writing or co-writing So many hits fior so many groups as well, it was a great time!!
It's now named PARTY METAL, I just officially changed it.
I want to echo some of the other posts - Motley Crue should be in the hub over Dokken, definitely more than Warrant, who were a late arrival as Pete mentioned.
That could be a good topic for a show - the double-edged hit that in the short term makes a band a load of money but perhaps harms their career in the long term.
When I dug into Led Zeppelin I was surprised at how much of an influence they were on hair metal. Not just the vocal style but the pop choruses they sometimes put between Jimmy Page's big riffs. Aerosmith and Van Halen distilled into shorter songs and then hair metal simplified it even more.
Good video
The thing I like the most is that you didn't talk bad about any of these bands ( even when I know you don't like some of those)
I prefer the heavier glam (Seduce, Pharaoh, Sweet Poison, Tuff Luck, Halloween, Odin, London, Salems Lott, Creature, Tigertailz, Glamour Punks, The Ultras, Wikked Gypsy, Jet Blakk, Krank, Witch, X Japan, etc.)
I would keep out Cinderella (too bluesy), Bon Jovi (the heartland/Stringsteen thing, the AOR) and Dokken (melodic metal) and add D'Molls, Pretty Boy Floyd and Steelheart. The latter being a perfect example of the genre - a strong singer, flashy musicianship, polished production, power ballads, some heavy songs, pop hooks, photogenic, memorable music videos, female attraction...
All you guys are music biggots and can't be taken seriously.
I believe of all of the hair metal bands mentioned, Bon Jovi are the only ones inducted into the Rock 'n roll Hall of Fame (not that it means anything special, but they did/do have mass appeal).
Angel was the first. Very Best of Hair/Glam Genre
For me: Motley, Ratt, Dokken, Poison and Bon Jovi defined Glam Metal . And we never called in “hair” metal. We called it Glam back in the day.
Interesting take. I see Motley Crue as the central band, the center of the hub so to speak. Dokken; Lizzie Borden; Warrant; Loudness; some of those would make up the rest of the hub.
Great show. I'd also state that some/many of these bands were very big in Japan as well.
Hair/Glam Metal where always a big player in the stripper bars
Where doe's Tesla fit into all this? I feel like they aren't far off from bands like Cinderella and Ratt, but they were more real "rock" and less image. I think they're more of a hard rock band with a hint of metal at times? One of the best in this discussion of bands IMO. They deserve way more credit!
They like them, so theyre not associated with Glam.
Yup Mechanicsburg pa is where they are from. My cell mate from SCI Camp Hill claims his sister dated Brett Michael's in high school right before he left for LA. That is when I first learned he was from Pennsylvania because I just wasn't into that type of music much growing up. Some of the hair bands have songs I can appreciate now but that's few I like harder stuff and better lyrics. I didn't know Cinderella was from Pennsylvania but makes sense why so many of the older girls back than in my area freaking loved Cinderella. All my buddies older sisters my sister wasn't she was into the punk, grunge, industrial, and electronic club music.
My favorites are giant, baton rouge, fifth angel, icon
I remember Pete saying he thought Tesla was what he wished Aerosmith should have been in the 80s. I think Cinderella is a better example. I wish Aerosmith sounded like Cinderella in the 80s.
While it's nearly impossible to separate the bands from the videos, I wonder how these groups would be perceived in hindsight w/o MTV. To me, the only thing that really separates something like "Cherry Pie" from an earlier song like "Cat Scratch Fever" is the cheesy video. Of course the videos were a huge marketing tool at the time and helped to sell tons of albums for the bands in question, but in short order became an albatross that they largely just couldn't shake ... even now with the "hair metal" tag. Those videos were intended to be played for 3 or 4 months and forgotten, so it's really too bad that those bands will forever be typecast because of something that was made strictly for marketing purposes. Great show as always, guys!
Fun video! I would add one characteristic at the hub (if not mentioned?): specific stage moves, esp. throwing the guitar over the shoulder. Though I enjoy hair metal, I side with those that recall it as a derogatory term: it was frivolous music; less serious and less heavy. Even the 'earnest' songs were betrayed by the bands' reputation. Because of this, I just don't see Dokken at the hub. Poison is probably the #1 choice: the crack-cocaine of the art form, synthesized in a lab for maximum impact. (Though they did lack the guitar-hero aspect, as CC just wasn't that.)
Dokken is one of the best rock bands in general! You would think Dokken had easy vocals unless you tried singing them, he also smoked like a chimney.
Outside of the song Cherry Pie, I think Jani really was a great lyricist on both the Cherry Pie album and on Dog Eat Dog. THAT album was amazing and it's too bad it was the last great thing Warrant did.
Next week's topic of bands that were huge but disappeared. Would be a great topic for Hudson Valley Sqaures too.
Hair metal, or poodle rock as some called it here in Sweden, was fairly popular here for a while but wasn’t huge. I never really heard it on radio back then, ironically this is now a very popular genre of classic rock radio stations
Cook rock was another word for it. Lol.
I will always say this when Warrant comes up.... LISTEN TO DOG EAT DOG!!! One of the greatest albums ever.
yep....their best
As a 70's fan of hard rock (Purple/Sabbath/Zeppelin) 🎵🎶...I was usually apauled at this period of hard rock music (apart from dP). However, it almost seems digestible these days, compared to the "grungy alternative" that followed it. 😂
Motley Crue has to be right at the hub for me. Not only for the link to anything resembling the 'metal' part of this equation with Shout at the Devil (goofy occult and leather, controversy etc); but also that immediate pivot into pink n' fluffy land with Theatre of Pain. Which also gave us the whole idea of the hit power ballad.
Other choices that spring immediately to mind..
Poison
Cinderella
Ratt
Warrant
For me Bon Jovi are more what I'd term 'soundtrack rock', having more in common with early 80s AOR bands/Bryan Adams and similar.
Dokken just seem a little bit 'sophisticated' for me to me to be right at the hub. Close, for sure, but not quite at the centre for me.
The ones that immediately spring to my mind have more of an emphasis on trash n' sleaze, rather than any hint of 'melodic metal classiness'.
Who likes Warrant only for Uncle Tom's Cabin?
This will go in every sideways trajectory available for this genre
I tried to reply in the live chat but it was over. Soundgarden was 84, Mother Love Bone was 87.
I feel like someone should mention poor old Great White. Certainly a major player of the hair metal game. I don't know which hub to put them near. One of you mentioned Zeppelin clones.
I was going to say them as well. Great White an important early band that like Dokken, Ratt, etc. started in the late 70s as Dante Fox, evolved into Great White and had an indie LP in 82 a year after Motley (and that Don Dokken and Michael Wagner produced and engineered). And they were more of a metal band with a Zep jones early on that evolved more into the bluesy thing as albums went on and they got bigger and bigger.
Hey Scott - Great White were from my neighborhood ( let em drink all my Heinekens one night! Gladly so! ) and Mark Kendall was a legend on guitar here, even before Great White! Jack could sure sing, nice, bluesy, soulful voice and has some similarities to my ultimate vocalist, Robert Plant! Some stellar songs from Great White and really proud of their success. The concert fire at their gig was soul crushing, still can't believe out of all the bands on this planet, it happened to my friends in Great White.....RIP to all who perished in fire. Take care.
Dig the bands on the list. I may have left Warrant off in lieu of Ratt. But that's just me.
I was thinking of other bands also like Great White, Helix, Killer Dwarfs, Twisted Sister, Winger, Enuff Z'nuff, would they all fit in that category?
If you're of a certain age, you might remember when generic food items began appearing in grocery stores. They came in packaging with plain white labels that had the contents spelled out in black block lettering (i.e., GREEN BEANS). I've often thought that if you opened a CD with a plain white label that said ROCK BAND on it, the band on that CD would be Bon Jovi. They are, to me, as generic as it's possible for a rock band to be. Their music is perfectly competent in both composition and performance, without being distinctive or interesting or unique in any way.
Which explains, I think, Bon Jovi's popularity: it's lowest-common-denominator rock music. It appeals to a wide audience without offering any substance or challenge that might turn anyone off. It's the musical equivalent of a can of generic green beans -- if you like green beans, that's what this is.
foo fighters
@@danielreynolds7458 Yeah, they're another example. The Foos came out of the grunge movement, so they have that tonality to their style, but it's a totally generic representation. I could listen to an entire Foo Fighters album (maybe their entire discography) and not remember a single note an hour later.
I agree and thats y i love the first 2 BJ albums and the rest is not much for me
Mad an analogy Martin but it fits.
We never used hair and metal in the same sentence. We just said hair bands.
For the main hub I would say they same 5 as y'all but Motley Crue has to be added
Bon Jovi was hugh in Sweden back in the 80s.
Sorry I need some clarification, How is Warrant, who you just said didn't come on the scene until the end of the 80's, at the core of at the movement? Seems a little contradictive to me.
The last hair metal band to make it big was Firehouse not Warrant. Its a honest mistake they made.
@@Chaz4543 So I agree with you. Firehouse was one of the last to make it before grunge came along. However my comment wasn't about who was the last band it was about if your talking about the core/hub of something what does the last anything have to do with it. The point is who are the originals.
Here's one nobody mentioned : Tora Tora
It's not easy to categorize Appetite for Destruction by Guns N' Roses. The Wiki article cites 4 tags - Hard Rock, Heavy Metal, Hair Metal, Blues Rock.
I like the way Martin breaks down the nuances into 'Dirty Hair Metal' and other 'microgenres'. But for someone like myself, especially from a younger generation - GnR do seem to fit into the broader movement of this whole thing.
I wish it was explored a bit more why the mention of them was brushed off - because if they're not hair metal - what are they?
Hard Rock Ala ACDC and Aerosmith with a punk attitude.
How did you leave Motley Crue out of this?
did he call Jani Lane at 20: 15....Yanni...or Johnny
Is it “ Americana “ or LA?
First bands that came to mind: poison, Def Leppard, Motley, Ratt, Warrant. Never thought dokken or bon jovi fit the genre. Interesting show guys. Thx
before watching I'll choose Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, Poison, Warrant & Ratt - honorable mentions to Skid Row, Cinderella, Mr. Big, Winger, White Lion, Firehouse & Extreme - deep cuts to Badlands, Danger Danger, Steelheart, XYZ, Hardline & my borderline picks are (bands that I wouldn't call hair metal but others often do) to Tesla, Dokken, Scorpions, KISS, Def Leppard, Van Hagar, GNR, Whitesnake, Blue Murder, L.A. Guns & Great White, Damn Yankees
What about Shotgun Messiah, D-A-D, or Dogs D'Amour? Love Junkyard, Kik Tracee, and Cats in Boots!
Motley Crue, Poison, Ratt, Stryper, Dokken, Cinderella, Europe, Bon Jovi, Firehouse
Also… in regards to the keyboards topic, there were very few bands with a full-time keyboardist as a member… I can think of Bon Jovi with David Bryan…
Ok, did not see Pete’s exposition by the time of my comment… 😂 Yes Pete, they were also big internationally. I saw them live in Caracas (Vzla) for the Keep The Faith album… pretty good (quite good) show. 🍻
You gotta include Ratt, Quite Riot, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, Great White, WASP, Night Ranger, Black n Blue, Kix, White Lion, Keel ( the first wave of Glam)
Winger, GnR, Warrant, Slaughter, Britny Fox, Cinderella, Skid Row etc are all late to the party!
Faster Pussycat's first two albums were very good IMHO and they possibly might have been bigger but the first album got largely buried, having been released just two weeks before Appetite For Destruction.
A4D was a slow grower. In fall 87 I heard just as much Faster Pussycat and G&R in my dorm but by that spring it was all A4D
Van Halen is at the center of this genre in my opinion. They check off all of the boxes described in this episode- front man/ shredder guitarist at front and center, Americana, clothes, hair, female fans in abundance, etc.
I disagee completely. Van Halen didn't glom on the make-up. The hair-band "metal" songs by these bands were like 3rd generation KISS/Aerosmith. I think VH forged a newer sound. DLR's lyrics had more of an edge. None of this limp-wristed "Every Rose Has It's Thorn" type songs. VH didn't do ballads until Hagar joined.
I made a list before lsitening to you guys! Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, Def Leppard, Poison and Ratt. We'll see how I did! lol
I thought Angel would be mentioned, & Slade
People can rag on it all they want, but this music is popular enough it has it OWN CHANNEL on SiriusXM. It can mostly be boiled down to Aerosmith meets Slade/Sweet, but so many bands got thrown into the pot just because of how they looked in their music videos, which were how you got your song played.
As to the point Martin makes about country music, I can make a very good argument that mainstream country music in the 90s is incredibly analogous to 80s hair metal. Big, mega hooks and squeaky-clean production and hits basically coming off an assembly line.
The Cult would be on a spoke for sure.
Bon Jovi , Skid Row , GNR , Wasp , Motley Crue , Ratt , Winger , Sloughter , Warrant - many glam / heavy metal bands who mark decade like mainstream acts . ( today is not possible since hip -hop ate all ) .
wasn't hip hop's fault - record industry decided they didn't have room for metal and grunge and buried these bands - probably so they wouldn't have to keep / start paying them
Bon Jovi is one of the few bands that survived the grunge era.
sort of... they changed their sound and kicked Ritche Sambora out and now they're more of a country act
Too bad Jon's voice didn't.
I use the term hair metal fondly if I’m talking about Dokken but negatively if I’m talking about Poison 😂
Jani lane love him or hate em was a great songwriter ,should of moved to Nashville and would of made a king's ransom writing hit songs for other performers!!!
Skid row?
Motley Crue, would replace Cinderella. My reasoning is simple,, the Crue IS glam metal while Cinderella only made one glam albums the other three are even better. By the way Ratt should be close to the hub, but with twin guitar harmonies and a more metallic crunch to their sound!
Hair Metal, Glam Metal,...tomato, tomoto. Either way you call it it was still Metal, not always heavy, but sometimes often yes. If not, Hard Rock Metal for sure. Everyone had their hard hitting Metal edge songs. Yup, even Bon Jovi's first four albums, and Poison first three. You just had to listen to songs other than the hits, ballads, and seeing them live it was always Metal! First two Europe albums pre Final Countdown = Metal, first Great White album is Metal, White Lion- Fight To Survive = Metal. Bon Jovi debut and 7800 Fahrenheit is Metal. Poison- Look What the Cat Dragged In those riffs are surely Metal with catchy hooks
Can’t believe people get hung up on what you call it. For me it was almost just a period in time more than a genre. The NWOBHM is often referred to as a movement rather than a genre and it feels to me that the same thing kind of applies to these bands, it was almost more about the look than the music.
15:10 you're right - pop is a loose term - in the 40's it was Frank Sinatra, in the 50's in was rock n roll and Doo Wop, in the 60's it was the British Invasion and Motown in the 70's it was Disco and singer / songwriter... now it's autotune rap, retro songs being re-discovered by Netflix shows like Stranger Things and Wednesday Addams and Cobra Kai and on TikTok
Great discussion! Hanoi Rocks is an interesting band in this aspect. For some reason I wouldn´t count them as a hair/glam metal band. They are definitely glam rock. What are your thoughts about Hanoi Rocks in this discussion?
Nothing in the music relates. The look, somewhat.
@@MartinPopoff My thoughts exactly. I just lifted them up because from outside they should fit in, but at the same time I clearly hear that they don´t fit musically at all.
Hanoi were glam punk, a NY Dolls for the 80s.
Kind of, but Hanoi were musically much more versatile. They were more glam rock than glam punk.
0:40 I heard Sunny and Gray and think of Sonny Gray the ex-Yankees pitcher
Pete called Jani, “Yanni” haha
Motley Crue
Ratt
Quiet riot (started it all)
Poison
Bon Jovi
I have been surprised at the value of some Hair Metal LPs recently. I have seen Warrant - Cherry Pie and Mike Tramp's Freak of Nature albums on vinyl for £100 ($110) in second hand record shops recently.
Out of print first pressing, sounds about right.
Love this but talking bout dokken martin seems to have a love/hate thing for hair metal. There is crap out there but lots to love in the bands depending on who you liked
the Pop in Pop Music is short Popular for these certain artists and the music they perform is just that
Popular being artists such as Elton John, Madonna, Coldplay, Michael Jackson, Lady Gaga and etc.