Rorke's Drift reads like bad Fan-Fiction
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2021
- The British victory at Rorke's Drift during the Anglo-Zulu War was shocking. Three to four thousand Zulu Warriors against roughly one-hundred and fifty British soldiers in a "fort" of biscuit tins and mealie bags! It seems impossible! The very idea seems more the realm of poorly written fantasy and "fanfics" than of real history! Let's go into some of the numbers and take a look at just utterly fantastical the entire situation is, and how utterly unrealistic it would be to assume the British had a "snowball's chance in hell" at winning the battle...that is, until you realize that by some miracle, they actually did....
(Spoiler: the miracle is logistics and politics) -
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Yo Brandon F. I remember during a stream you said you thought of militias/paramilitary and resistance movements like the French resistance poorly.
Like during one of your Red Dead 2 streams you said they didn't do much but get other resistance members killed along with civilians despite them being heavily romanticized in history and media.
I'm legit curious if you could elaborate on that someday and make an entire video about that if you have the time?
Hey Brandon would you think about sometime in the future making a video about navies in the age of sail maybe the British navy.?
Your a douche bag, not saying what your saying is wrong, just the way your presenting the information has you coming off as a pompous douche bag.
How did Rome win against Boudicca's rebels in Britain when outnumbered by nearly 70000+ troops? Britons who could have flanked the Romans through the woods had they not been convinced of their own victory enough to attempt a head on assault. Things like this happen in history. History is strange, but it's strange for its reasons.
You want plot armor? Try battle of Hodów, 400 vs 24-70 thousand
11th of june 1694
"The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense" - Tom Clancy (I think)
Agathon, the Greek poet: "It is probable that many things should happen contrary to probability."
Yup, it was Clancy.
What about Real life
@@Brandonhayhew It doesn't necessarily make sense, things just happen.
@@vde1846 random things happen but it does have real rules like laws of physics and thermodynamics. You practical elements that actually works for real
Reminds me of the time someone sent a map of the area around New Orleans to a "design your own fantasy world" contest. The judges told him that it was the "most unrealistic map they had ever seen." The idea that someone would build a city on a river next to swamp when there was a large body of water nearby was so insanely far out there they laughed when they got it.
St. Petersburg in Russia is even more ridiculous if you think about it. And yet it was done, and thousands died during construction.
NO has some stupid bridge going across a lake/gulf, right? The judges were like "who the hell would build this dumbass mile-long bridge? Get outta here"
John Ringo once pointed out nonsense like this regarding editors, the protagonist citing real world examples for every "apparent" departure from realism, such as an overpopulated nation which practices population control (China)
Tenochtitlán be like: hahaha lake go C I T Y
ooh, the followup is another copy of the map with a small red circle added.
"I live here"
A hostile spear,
A new frontier,
The end is near,
There's no surrender...
I hoped for more people mentioning the song
The lines must hold
Their story told
Rourke's Drift Controlled
@@lotsofweasles263 Later on that fateful day as they entered Rorke's Drift
Stacking boxes,fortify
Preparations must be swift
@idk
A prince had been offended
And he had gone the path of War
Now 1500 men are dead
And the Zulu's at the Door!
Zulus attack,
Fight back to back,
Show them no mercy and,
Fire at will,
Kill or be killed,
Facing, awaiting,
Didnt watched it but as that dude told me once "books are a shitshow to write because they need to make sense, but history never cared about realism"
Hah, I like that quote!
@@BrandonF Are you still living in England or have you moved back to America?
@@michaelhawkins7389 Everywhere he goes, it's England. He annexes that territory to the glorious British Empire.
I remember watching a documentary about a WWII documentary and they mentioned that they had to tone it down a bit otherwise it was felt that the audience wouldn't believe the accounts.
@@sleepygryph Audie Murphy. He had to tone down actual events from his life to make them seem more believable.
History never cared for “realism”. The world loves to create stories. Think of agincourt
Ain't that the truth.
Yep, and the English army was starving and ravaged with disease (and was outnumbered). It's a miracle that they even beat the French at all.
@Irish Jester He's just using a colloquial expression, which doesn't count as plagiarism due to its informal nature. Colloquialisms and cliches can't be considered plagiarism.
Also, Fort Douaumont during the Battle of Verdun. The largest and strongest fortress on the French frontier was captured by _a single German soldier._
Brits love to make that battle look like a miracle.
The complete lack of French command structure and the mud gave the English all the advantages they needed to win.
Rourkes Drift had an Engineer in charge. Isandlawana did not.
Engineers always somehow pulling of the impossible
@@thegamingsentinel9238 ESSAYONS!
Bromhead disliked
Bromhead disliked
So did the Battle of Hamel...
You think that's bad? Deep dive into Jeanne D'Arc and realize that god once made an anime Mary sue to troll the English with.
She got super-nerfed by the devs tho - honestly, a character that OP should have never gotten past the beta stage in the first place, smh goddamn Burgundians
@@warlordofbritannia She's not too OP. Excellent NP, especially post-buff, but her skills are totally lacking.
@@velveteensallet949
I know they lowered her DT when she was burned at the stake, but it was kinda unfair for English players who had no counter before then
Like, if the devs hadn’t removed Henry V a few years earlier I’d agree with you, but when they gave the French Jeanne D’Arc they overcompensated for that and introduced more balancing issues
@@velveteensallet949 DON'T YOU DARE TALK SHIT ABOUT ONEE-CHAN!!!
that said, I agree with you. Shi Huang have more useful skill and good NP to stall for time. I remember I survive for 30 turns or more in Olympus somewhere.
@@warlordofbritannia wtf does that actually mean?
in the immortal words of Sun Tsu "Throw your soldiers into positions whence there is no escape, and they will prefer death to flight. If they will face death, there is nothing they may not achieve."
That's true but punishing your men with death by you or the enemy defeats morale. Also, if you lose the battle, you won't have any reserves, and your soldiers will be much less likely to commit to battle.
Well, threats of execution would definitely ruin morale, but say, we cut the only escape route, that basically puts them in the deadly situation. The Brits at Rourke's Drift could absolutely run in the open field and search for the nearest town to hide at, but knowing that there is absolutely no escape from the Zulus in the open fiels..... well, that's better than a threat by executioner
@@placeholder1237 Something even Alexander the Great learned! At the battle of the Granicus river he had encircled the Greek mercenaries fighting for the Persians, after the battle had been won. And as Plutarch describes:
The mercenary Greeks, who, making a stand upon a rising ground, desired quarter, which Alexander, guided rather by passion than judgment refused to grant, and charging them himself first, had his horse killed under him. And this obstinacy of his to cut off these experienced desperate men cost him the lives of more of his own soldiers than all the battle before, besides those who were wounded.
@@placeholder1237
The Mongols were infamous for doing what you suggested.
@@placeholder1237
No… it was pretty effective. Unless you mean their enemies learned better.
"Reality is stranger than fiction."
Yes
Fortifications and morale are far bigger factors than people may realize. Losing even 20% of your force in a charge is a massive blow, especially when those losses come when doing zero damage to your foe. The Zulus were human too, and bravery only goes so far.
20 percent is absolutely crippling and most forced would not recover fully from that
You have no idea what the Zulu's were capable of then... and yes, a lot... more importantly, they were viciously deadly, cruel and inhumane... wiped out many African tribes and enslaved. Oh, can't remember what it was but Zulu warriors had some berserker types within their army... high on something.
Even 10% losses are generally considered at least by the US Army to have rendered the force unfit for constinued service until those losses can be replaced.
It largely depends on the structure of the army though IMO at an operational level how many casualties it can take while mainting combat effectiveness. As you pointed out though this does not account for morale I'm relation to that.
@@JosephGibson ok but that didn’t mean they were used to suffering 33% casualty rates like some estimates say they could have
@@JosephGibson
And spartans used go in night to kill helot slaves just to strike fear to them due to prophecy of losing to a eventual uprising.
Yet we dont see Spartans as inhumane
I mean, we're giving the british every advantage possible, but at the same time we're giving the Zulu unbreakable morale
Yea. If they even only suffered 10% casualties before reaching the enemy that'd be devastating to any force.
The other aspect is that if you have so many people charging you, you mainly need to get the elevation right to hit SOMEONE.
@@ohauss ye, don't even have to hit centre mass at that point, hit a guy in the leg and he goes down and then has a distinct chance of being trampled by his mates.
But the Zulus did make it to the meal bag ramparts, broke the ramparts, and forced the British to retreat to their last reboubt. Only the exhaustion of the Zulu's and the appearance of a relief column stopped a final assault.
Zulu had Mob Rule? Good thing they didn't bring a Warphead.
The commander at Rorke's Drift was an engineer. The difficult we do at once, the impossible will take just a little longer!
@Jones Aiden ESSAYONS!
Yeah but the defence plan was reportedly entirely down to Commissary Dalton: the engineer officer was not particularly bright, but got huge cred because he was An Officah.
I've read the accounts of the Zulu wars. At isaldwana they made a string of mistakes; they took an aggressive position while remaining stationery, they ran out of ammunition because the guy in charge played favorites with his own unit, no wagon fort.
At rorkes drift they never ran out of ammo, had two layers of defenses making the Zulus sitting ducks trying to scale them.
It's simple at RD the Cmd officer exaggerated the advantage of his ranged weapons while negating the Zulu Zerg rush.
@@gueststrivler I have not heard that, but it bears looking into.
@Jones Aiden beautiful :,)
I feel like the improbability of Rourke's Drift is heightened by the fact that THAT SAME DAY a large, well equipped army was roflstommped by the Zulus
A large force deployed in a position which invited envelopment and which was doomed from the outset: had the Brits followed the Boer example (or indeed the "Wild West" example) with a square or circle of wagons, mealie bags, etc, and had reserves, reliable ammunition supply, etc, they would have slaughtered the Zulus at minimal loss - as indeed happened elsewhere in the same war.
@@gueststrivler like rorkes drift?
@@gueststrivler deployment is 2/3 of winning. Shows the difference in basic command competence
@@kalumbailey5103 On a larger scale, obviously, but basically "yes".
Karmic balance.
"Fire at will."
"That's very nice of him."
Poor Will, the British are always shooting at him. They must like Mark though, because they name everything after him.
@@anthonyhayes1267 William Markicus
"Which one's Will?"
Favorite line in the movie.
"They're counting your guns!"
Someone at Rorke's Drift had a premonition they'd get a Sabaton song if they survived.
That'll make someone fight their way thru the apocalypse.
It'll make someone walk through the gates of hell, on their way to heaven!
@@Nerobyrne through the nazi lines
@@christianboi2142 To the core of the sun and back
@@christianboi2142 PRIMO VICTORIA!!!!!
Well.... I’m gonna say it... “FIRE BY RANKS! FRONT RANK! FIRE!!! SECOND RANK! FIRE!!! THIRD RANK! FIRE!!!!!”
"Colour sergeant Porn!"
"sup"
@@JohnsonTheSecond I do believe it was... "Colour Sergeant BOURNE!" Lol!
Fire at will. Kill or be killed.
Not the best phrase to use in a job interview but it is a rather splendid quote all the same
@@franciscoduarteauthor A hostile spear. A new frontier.
"Zulu's attack!
Fight back-to-back!
Show them no mercy and fire at will!
Kill or be killed!"
SABATONNNN
@@tianhaoborisju8332 A HOSTILE SPEAR, A NEW FRONTIER, THE END IS NEAR
@@JavierAlvarez-sd5er THERE'S NO SURRENDER
THE LINES MUST HOLD
@@masonk3720 THE STORY TOLD, RORKE'S DRIFT CONTROLLED!
Many people love action, real men love logistics and numbers
Alphas adore shouting.
Your channel looks pretty interesting actually. I'm going to subscribe.
I’ve been watching you for about 3 months ever since than one Brandon stream. Your channel is fantastic. Keep up the great work.
Dude that's an awesome idea for a channel we gotta pump your numbers up I'll share your channel at our next Sons of Union Civil War veterans meeting.
LoL. What quotable nerd said that?
Funny you mention this sounding like a Warhammer 40k situation when in reality this would be pretty goddam good scenario for that universe. It makes it even more amusing because I'm playing in a 40k RPG game right now.
Might want to Google 'the massacre at big toof river'
GW made a starter box in 2nd or 3rd edition which was Guard fighting Orcs. The Guardsmen that came in the box were from the planet Praetoria and were all sculpted to look like late Victorian British soldiers complete with pith helmets
Hell, we can just state that at least the Zulus, if they had achieved a complete victory, would have just maintained their independence and are not out to mind control/assimilate/kill/resurrect the British. Losing to them is infinitely more appealing than winning against the Tau.
Praetorian Guard were based of 24th Regt in Zululand!!
@@probyperson1 The Pretorians are one of my Favorit Regiments, Badass Name with badass look.
"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.” Mark Twain
Saying Rorke's drift comes off as fan-fiction is a bit strange, when so many events come off the same way, like Napoleon being swarmed by rabbits, or Julius Caeser fighting a siege while being besieged, or reading out a fellow senator's sister's love letter to him aloud in the senate.
Hold on what's that last one referring to?
Dont leave us blue ball with the last one
@@LordVader1094 @Sorce
Taken from reddit;
While Caesar and Cato were in the senate, arguing over the former's involvement in the Catiline Conspiracy, a message came in for Caesar. Cato, thinking it was a message of the conspiracy, asked to read the letter. Little did he know, it was actually a love letter from Cato's sister to Ceasar. Cato threw it to Caesar and said: "take it, you drunk".
@@Mattmaster112 Damn, that's rough buddy.
Man the first half of Napoleon is total cringe. I’m so glad they hired a new author for when he got back from Egypt.
To be fair, Isandlwana would also be dismissed as fictional: "How could Stormtroopers lose to Ewoks?!"
And since it was this heroic victory, the British made sure it was the only battle in the Zulu War anyone remembered, even over their other victories because slaughtering a mostly Roman-style army with Machine guns and field artillery isn't nearly as heroic as a few dozen guys hiding behind sandbags taking potshots.
Arguably, Rorke's drift was a sign of the times: entrenched positions and state of the art rifles made older tactics obsolete. The Zulu fought in grand Roman fashion. Logistics, engineering, technology ultimately eclipsed valor and battlefield tactics alone.
Zulu is my favorite historical films; it's distorted but never cartoonish, and trusts that the true heroism of the garrison spoke for itself. The Zulus are antagonists, but not monsters. The British are heroes, but questions of nationalism are cast aside in favor of emphasizing the courage of the soldiers themselves. It's all about being a soldier: you don't understand why you're fighting, you have no reason to hate the people who kill, and the real villains are far and away; you simply have to survive by doing your best and suppressing all your instincts to run.
I love the math breakdown here, it also showed that the Zulus weren't willing to lose their entire command just to assuage bruised egos (left out of Isandlwana they wanted the share in the honors of the younger units) . The offensive was still costly enough, and against the king's orders: Ceshtwayo was absolutely enraged that his brother crossed the border into British territory and wasted valuable men attacking a supply depot after the British offensive had already retreated.
My main criticism of Zulu is the lack of greater context; we don't hear why the Zulus are attacking other than the declaration of war and we never hear the Zulu's perspective (to be fair, the real villain, Frere, was safely back in Capetown and managed to instigate more unjust and costly wars until the first Boer war and its humiliation of British arms finally cost him his position) or the greater strategy of both sides. On the other hand, it truly was a soldier's battle: The Zulu attacked for their honor, the British fought for their lives, both showed amazing courage, and eventually the British won by standing strong in a strong position (a fortress is only as strong as the will of the men defending it) It had no bearing on the course of the war, but it changed the lives of almost 5,000 British and African men. It's incidental, but it's an incident of amazing courage.
Okay, to be clear, Isandlwana and Endor were nothing alike.
Isandlwana was a battle between: a regular army, outnumbered seven to one, armed with breech loading rifles; and a force of equally strong men fighting for the survival of their nation.
Endor was a battle between: the most capable stormtrooper legion in the empire, equipped with energy weapons and armored vehicles; and teddy bears with sticks fighting because someone asked them to.
The moral of the story is: the battle of Endor was shite and I hate RoJ as a result.
Your grasp of Star Wars seems to be worse than your grasp of history
@@Tareltonlives
I will concede that the stormtroopers present on Endor at the time were not, as I had incorrectly believed, the 501st legion (who were instead likely aboard the Executor). Nevertheless, I maintain that the battle had a less severe difference in numbers, and a far larger technological divide.
@@jasonalbert6251 we don’t see a complete picture of the Battle Of Endor. In every shot of stormtroopers, there are 3+ Ewoks. The troops are arrayed for parade, not battle at the start of the engagement. The Imperials also seem totally unprepared to deal with Ewok tactics (chasing lures away from support, getting their trench line infiltrated), and they lose many of their heavy weapons to ambush early in the fight.
I think the similarities are closer than you’re giving credit!
@@jasonalbert6251 To be fair, Ewoks may be surprisingly strong for their size. They're able to carry C3PO, a human sized robot, with relative ease.
“It reads like something out of WH40k”. Old warhammer drew a lot of inspiration from historical battles.
The Battle of Ork’s Drift comes to mind.
Not to mention some of the factions. Krieg is like a caricature of WW1 imperial Germany
Praetorians would like a word
@@Legitpenguins99 Not really. They have the aesthetic but WW1 Germany was much more in the business of impenetrable defenses than suicidal charges.
@@TheLordUrban The Massacre at Big Toof River
I still like that the people playing the Zulu warriors in the moive was proud of playing the rolls of their ancestors.
Why wouldn't they... a force to be reckoned with, the superior force in the whole of Africa, if had not been for the British and infighting within the Zulu, they may have had conquered all of Africa with Shaka at the helm, as he was the man behind their reform.
@@JosephGibson Shaka was long dead by that time.
@@talknight2 yeah he was dead like 60 years before the battle.
@@JosephGibson Like compared to a lot of West African empires the Zulus aren't out of the norm but they are interesting at least
To the point that, from what I remember reading, the production crew brought in stunt performers to do the dying on the Zulu side, as the locals felt it was beneath them.
Reminds me of a friend of mine who watched Azur Lane for the first time and was like, "why did they make Enterprise the protagonist? That doesn't make any sense," then he looked up Enterprise's history during WW2 and came to the realization "oh, because she was a real life anime protagonist during WW2".
Here's the thing. Rourke's Drift is usually told in conjunction with the Battle of Isandlwana. Isandlwana was told as the story of where the British got complacent and had their asses kicked. Rourke's Drift was where the British got smart and were victorious. And while you're right to say the British were not as disadvantaged as the popular story makes them out to be, remember they had artillery at Isandlwana.
Being a vet myself if you told me a battalion sized force up the road got wiped out by a larger tribal force with stone age weapons and they were heading to my position where we had a understaff company, a handful of local militia, and several wounded and no chance of reinforcements, I would have thought we were screwed.
Absolutely true. The battles were decided by the choices made by commanders. Ntshingwayo made a gamble seeing a vulnerable position while Chemsford was careless and his Durnford and Pulleine clueless. Dabulamanzi attacked out of wounded pride while Chard and Bromhead took every action possible. The British at Rorke's drift and Zulu at Isandlwana were paying close attention: the British Lord and Zulu Prince were complacent.
The colour Sargent at rorkes drift was an interesting man. Not the stereo typical Victorian Sargent as portrait in the movie but actually only 21 years old. He was the youngest soldier to ever be promoted to that rank in the history of the British army at that time.
How the fuck do you become a sergeant at 21? Even if you joined at 16 that's still only 5 years...
I'm guessing that man had a fair few connections
@@lovablesnowman I mean maybe he was in the territorials before, reserves usually have very young ranks. For example I'm gonna be in 2 years this march and I'm being made a corporal... 🤷♂️
@@coreystockdale6287 do ranks in the reserves carry over to the regulars though?
@@lovablesnowman
he was 23, and was promoted literally as he saw active service overseas for the first time.
@@lovablesnowman It's been a while since I've read about it, but if I remember correctly the 24th Foot had only been reactivated within the past year, it had been inactive prior to that for a number of years. Most of the men were new recruits and that being the case when building up a military unit you start looking for those who are intelligent, are superior soldiers, and have leadership potential to promote and put in positions of responsibility. Colour-Sergeant Frank Bourne was obviously one of those with potential. I think he was actually 24 or 25 at the time.
I never found it that unrealistic, tbh, even when I first saw it some years ago
History is full of a small, elite force holding up a vastly numerically superior enemy by funneling them through a choke point, or, as in the case of Rorke’s Drift, fortified position
The most famous, of course, is the Battle of Thermopylae, but there’s also the likes of Agincourt and Crecy, and in more modern times, the early campaigns of Charles XII of Sweden, and Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck and a few thousand German colonial troops tied down up to 150,000 British soldiers in East Africa during the Great War
there were much more greeks and spartans at the hot wells than only three hundred and they used a fortified position, they build a wall IIRC a stone wall for that battle
@@thodan467 there were a few thousand but the enemy was still vastly superior
@@skeletalforce9673
In Numbers and Quality
@@thodan467 the stone wall was at the persian gate. defended by 6000 persians with bows. They managed to hold of Alexanders army for weeks.
@@jarlnils435
i meant the battle of thermopylae
149 expert marksmen just like me? I just imagine 150 hickok45's just like: "Hey y'all, found my Martini henry breach loading gun, isn't she neat? Of course we will be shooting federal today-"
@Ho Lam YIU gotta always thank federal and buds gun shop.
@@stonk_boi9617 whop! Almost forgot my ears. Uh lets see. Two liter. 💥
Next he’s going to tell us there wasn’t a sing off at Rorkes Drift either
"Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools."
-Empereur Napoleon Bonaparte
And that's how one ends up losing an army in Russia.
@@daviddechamplain5718 And a bit of a setback in Belgium.........
"If you believe that you will believe anything," 1st Duke of Wellington.
What a horrible qoute.
A funny reverse of this is stormtroopers can’t aim, when they have superhuman accuracy cause counting shots they hit like 1/6 when the us army estimates it takes about 1000 shots or something to eliminate an enemy combatant
Sometimes this kinda things happen, I mean the winged hussars exist, and what sounds like something out of fiction more then cavalry with wings on their back who can beat back armies even when outnumbered 100-1.
If this battle sounds like a bad fan fiction, the battle of hodow village is way worse 400 w8nged hussars beat back 2000 tartar vanguard then retreat to hodow village out barricades up and then proceed to hold off 40,000 tartars who just keep attacking grill they decide they lost too many men and run away, the polish supposedly ran out of shots and so started loading arrows in the muskets.
That kinda battle doesn’t happen in most fiction because you could never see it happening.
1000 shots fired per combatant killed. Not that it takes a thousand shots to kill one in a firefight. Stormtroopers were only ever seen in close to medium range, where regular riflemen would get many hits.
Yeah people who say stormtroopers can't aim aren't paying attention while watching those movies. The only times they miss consistently is when they're explicitly told to by their commanders.
I think history is underestimating the humble biscuit tin and mealie bag.
Clearly a formidable obstacle to a military power with no understanding of siege warfare.
Not to mention their complete ignorance of the dangers of fluoride.
General Jack I salute your very funny observation! Worthy of the wry humor of Colour Sergeant Bourne!
What I love about Zulu is that, in the 1960s, it used actual Zulu actors to portray the Zulu soldiers, and remained incredibly respectful to their culture and traditions.
That’s something modern Hollywood would never dare attempt.
They’d all be CGI figures, copy-and-pasted by the impis
Not just that , the zulu king was the grandson of the actual zulu King portrayed in that film . The wedding dance was designed by Jim mother and all the extras had better pay than most bit actors on the TV at the time .
Oh yeah, my hats off to how respectful these guys were in a time where that wasn’t the norm
@@edmundscycles1 the South African government wouldn't allow the Zulus to be paid, so Stanley Baker arranged for all of the cattle to be left behind as a "gift".
The man who portrayed King Chetswayo was Chief Butelezi who is the politician head of the IFP he is the cousin of the actual king... King Zwelatini the king of the Zulu and direct descendant of Chetswayo
9:12
There's our answer, Sharpe was at Rorke's Drift!
now thats soldiering
@@clpfox470 3 rounds a minute in any weather
The only thing Sean been survived till the end...
Wait warhammer 40k isn’t actual history?
It’s not history because it hasn’t happened yet, it’s the future, duh!
It's the history of one small English model company's resolve to raise prices beyond the realm's of mortal logic while also cutting the number of units per box, and to add space marines to your space marines just see how many space marines can be space marined.
And also the holy mission to pretend that sister of battle and the bretonnians don't really exist.
That franchise is overrated.
Future History, duh
The short answer, or at least one of the short answers: Fortifications are one Hell of a force multiplier.
We have a winner. 👍
Yep. I have seen it as x3 to x5 at equal tech levels. Mostly x3.
facing awaiting a hostile spear a new frontier
Took way too long to find Sabaton
I'm disappointed
No one continued
If i recalled some historian said that you only needed 30% total casualties before an army to routed. Even if you are a superhuman human's instinct to not die is strong.
I think what's often forgotten is the effect on morale of seeing at close quarters what a bullet does to a body. In the movies there's a red stain and a guy being stoic about his wounds. In the real world bullets blow bits clean off, the casualties are screaming hysterically, and you're in the middle of this horror.
I've seen a number near this in old USArmy officer manuals.
@@Kevin-mx1vi Yes. At the Little Bighorn battle, the Indian scout Bloody Knife was next to Major Reno, and when Bloody Knife got hit at relatively close range, it was having his brains splatter all over Reno that caused Reno to panic, which in turn routed his command and contributed to the overall loss of the battle by the Army.
Studies of combat power vs casualties typically show a linear drop in offensive capability upto 20-25% casualties, at which point the unit has no offensive combat power, and then a linear drop in defensive capability down to 40-50%, at which point the unit disintegrates and can't defend itself. However, if the unit can't disintegrate (for example it's trapped) then this breakpoint can be much higher.
Thanks for the video - some statistics for you: There were 139 British troops at Rorke's Drift, of which, 39 were not fit for action (it was a field hospital).
It was the Right Horn of Islandwana which attacked, comprising between 3,500 and 4,000 warriors.
The 100 active soldiers fired an estimated 23,000 rounds from about 16:30hrs to 04:00 hrs (it was mainly a night battle). The British lost 17, killed.
Chard's memoirs refer to burying some 400 Zulus and estimates some 400 being removed by the enemy.
23,000 rounds fired - 800 Zulu casualties - makes you think.
Pretty good accuracy in my book
What has yet to be mentioned is that a significant number of Zulus died in hand to hand combat - both in attacking the perimeter and the hospital; and that as the corpses piled up in front of the British position many Zulus were sitting ducks as they struggled to clamber over their fallen friends ...only to be bayoneted by soldiers operating from behind cover.
@@therac197 Right?! Especially since most of the fighting was at night, it seems (I admit I'm a dummy when it comes to this battle, so this is all new to me), that's nigh unreal. Wasn't the stat for WW2 about 300,000 rounds fired=1 enemy killed, or somewhere around there?
@@tachyon8317
Pretty much, but I don't know if you should compare this numbers 1 to 1.
At that time people shot to kill, in WW2 you had suppressive fire. I mean german basic infantry doctrine was build around a LMG putting hundreds of rounds down range to suppress the enemy, so the others could flank them
That’s like 28 bullets per Zulu, that’s some pretty darn good accuracy
Brandon: "100% accuracy? That's ridiculous!"
Daniel Hagman: "Am I a joke to you?"
We don't have 150 Hagman's in one place, that is the difference.
Britain was banned from using Hagman after Napoleon ended his kill streak at Waterloo
10:00 I may be wrong, but I feel that a .577/450 wound is as good as a casualty, not like someone is going to keep running if you hit them almost anywhere with such a huge round.
it's a 31 gram soft lead bullet... so yeah, it hits you, you feel it.
Of course all that mass also gives it an arcing trajectory and causes it to lose velocity fairly quickly, making it considerably less accurate (especially at range) than most people would probably believe.
Except for the fact that any wounded soldier is considered a casualty in war. Casualties consist of KIA (Killed in Action), WIA (Wounded in Action), and MIA (Missing in Action).
Yes. That's one reason that there were so many amputations in the Civil War. Even with modern combat medicine a lot of those limbs would still have to be amputated. A soft lead round of that size slamming into you is most likely going to knock you off your feet and take you out of action no matter how badly you want at the people who are shooting at you.
Reality is always ridiculous and filled with actions that " you would never write" in a story.
He doesn’t take in count when the first lines take casualties the men Who follow stumble on the fallen and become very vulnerable and slow down .just like it happened in agincourt
Interesting Zulu fact: the Zulu battle chant ("a'yum boom passe" in my accent, anyway) was reused in Gladiator when the Romans fought the Germanic tribe right at the start of the film.
I read the title and instantly cracked up. Sometimes, reality is stranger than fiction.
Wait. You're telling me that the US president was shot and then proceeded to finish his speech ?
And he survived?
The fuck kind of Micheal Bay hyper patriotism is this ? 😒
@@jameslegrand848
Former president. He was running for a nonconsecutive reelection as a third-party candidate. And was the most successful third party candidate until Ross Perot.
As if the story required any further embellishment.
@@eldorados_lost_searcher
Yeah right.
Next thing you tell me is that this very same guy fought a war with the Spanish while on horse back 🤪🤪🤪
Come on man, you've got to stay a bit realistic at the very least
@@jameslegrand848
Or that he was terribly nearsighted, so he kept at least five spare pairs of glasses (including a pair sewn to his hat!) during said attack.
Or that he lost most of the sight in one eye from boxing while he was president, and he gave up the sport due to doctors' orders. Only for him to immediately take up judo.
I mean, come on! Let's keep it in the same relative dimension as reality, people!
Zulu dawn (the prequel to Zulu from the late 70s) is pretty good all things considered, even provides a short few scenes from the Zulu perspective. Less likable characters and The pith helmets for extras look a lot more fake tho, but pretty decent not as bad as some people make it out to be.
Mind it was part of a collection of British War Films from the late ‘60’s to the mid ‘70’s intent of showing British senior officers as arrogant buffoons, junior officers as naive but brave fools, and the enlisted soldiers a mixture of mindless cannon fodder and disillusioned Working Class drones put upon by the elitist Upper Class officers, and the Empire as a hideous monster. See “The Charge of the Light Brigade” as an excellent example of this genre.
@@keithorbell8946 Have you even watched Roukes Drift?
@@Flakey101 I was referring to MenschMan’s comment about Zulu Dawn. By the way, you know the film about Rorke’s Drift is called “Zulu”, not “Rourke’s Drift”, don’t you? An absolute classic, and yes, I have seen it, a lot of times.
@@keithorbell8946 Ahh I got confused because Zulu Dawn is 1979, later than your stated time line and American not British
@@Flakey101 well, Charlton Heston was in it, but the vast majority of actors were British or South African. Maybe my dates were a bit off, but there is a definite anti- establishment mindset to films like Waterloo, The Charge of the Light Brigade and Zulu Dawn.
Hello Brandon! I've been waiting for this one! I remember seeing "Zulu" when it came out in 1964!
Just a few brief things since I don't want to get ahead of your next video.
First, concerning the Martini-Henry. The .577/.450 cartridge was so powerful the bullet would go through THREE Zulus if they were good enough to line up one behind the other.
(It was said the Martini killed on one end and maimed on the other, it was a thumper!)
Second. 19th Century US Army infantrymen had a way to speed up the rate of fire of the 1873 Springfield breechloader, which was contemporary to the Martini. They'd hold cartridges between the fingers of the supporting hand on the rifle to expedite reloading. I don't know if the British Army did that but I'd be a bit surprised if they didn't. I've tried it, it works.
Concerning the movie "Zulu." There's things the filmakers got wrong, but there's ONE thing they got right, and I'm surprised no fan of the film has ever mentioned it. When the Zulu warriors get close, so close you can see their faces, you can see they're just as frightened as those British soldiers are! Check it out everyone, the next time you watch the film, and remember what General U.S. Grant once said:
"Never forget, the enemy is just as scared of YOU as you are of HIM!"
Looking forward to Part Two! (I'll probably be humming 'Men of Harlech" for the rest of the day.)
Oh, well, twist my arm to go re-watch t film, why don’t you! Now I have something else to keep an eye out for!
@@BrandonF Don't feel bad son, it took me a while to catch it too!
If I remember right the scared Zulus (among others) are the ones facing off against Colour-Sergeant Bourne. The way Nigel Greene handles that bayoneted rifle would scare me too! Formidable!
I believe that the action at Rorkes's Drift took place at night. Surely, if so, this makes much of the contents pure speculation?
@@johnquilliam3343 The action started around 4:00 PM and continued until around 4:00 AM when the attacks finally petered out.
Both Lieutenants Chard and Bromhead wrote after-action reports as detailed as they could make them, which is typical of most militarys. As the saying goes:
"The job isn't finished until the paperwork is done."
Hook was a company marksman and mentions shots going through three Zulus.
40k you say? Massacre at Big Toof River, anyone?
*[laughs in British]*
THey sing Men of Harlech in that movie so that makes it all good in my book
Pity it never happened on real life, it wasn't even a Welsh regiment, it was the 24th (2nd Warwickshire regiment) of foot, two years later to become The South Wales Borderers, most enlisted men came from the Birmingham area.
@@peterbrown1012
Yes, the biggest myth of the film, thanks to Stanley Baker. There were some Welsh there, mind. (To misquote the movie).
Andy Norwich, tells the story of the VC recipients, interesting
@@adventussaxonum448 Stanley Baker was determined to make it as 'Welsh' as possible. But made as great movie in the process.
@@adventussaxonum448 a few Jones’s and Williams seem to have won VC’s that day. Strange, I could have sworn they were Welsh surnames 🤔
Brandon's vids are a God send thanks for the effort youre work is not unnoticed
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words, though divinity may be a bit much for my work!
Hey Brandon, I just wanted to say thank you for uploading today. I was having a bad day and your videos always cheer me up. Keep up the work!
Zulu warriors must have been like: These guys are too overpowered they must be hacking. Someone report them.
The Zulu prince after the battle :"... Fucking bullshit"
*Zulu king proceeds to yeet his keyboard*
The Zulu even beat larger British forces before this too. Seriously when you look at by the numbers, there's really no reason the british won. Key words "by the numbers"
@@Its_shiki_time4876 I know which battle you're talking about but I forgot how to spell it I know how to pronounce it though. But yeah the Zulu's at that battle were just like: reality can be whatever I want it to be.
That's why they rage quit at the end and left the Rourke's Drift server.
That’s how you know what happened was fricking crazy
This video really felt like a Lindybeige video to the point that I genuinely thought I am just imagining how a young Loyd would look like
Often times through history we see that a well disciplined fighting force when cut off with no way to retreat becomes a nearly insurmountable obstacle to the enemy. The Hot Gates of Thermopylae, The Siege of Alesia, Agincourt, Gate Pa, The Alamo, The 77th in the Argonne, The battle of the Bulge, just to name a few; while I am loathe to do so I will quote Sun Tzu "Throw your soldiers into positions whence there is no escape, and they will prefer Death to flight. If they will face death , there is nothing they may not achieve. Officers and men alike will put forth their uttermost strength.". History has proved this to be true time and time again.
And fighting a wearied enemy from behind tall walls certainly doesn't hurt, either!
Once in a while a battle would happen where the side that it was a foregone conclusion to lose is just too stubborn to die.
Watch this. Once I write down my alt. history that portrays a Polish battle line, you'll need to update the title :))
Westerplatte: The Polish Rorke's Drift, until the final air attack.
@@jamesharding3459 Nah more like just Polish battleships bombarding German coastlines. It'd be fun to watch tho
@@americantttefan4745 I meant in actual history. A company held out against a brigade, a battleship, and a ton of the Luftwaffe for quite some time before finally being bombed into submission.
@@jamesharding3459 Ah- Well, yeah. That would be an epic movie, though
@@americantttefan4745 a movie about the danzig postmen would also be very cool.
I remember playing Sid Meier's "Civilization" when I noticed that even an Iron Age militia could defeat a modern, motorized force for a while, fighting from a castle/fortified/prepared site. After all, if the enemy commander can choose the battleground and reinforce it, the attacker is already at a disadvantage. (Speaking of the movie "Waterloo," where "Napoleon" complained about the British "choosing their ground.")
AVE, finally my struggling addiction to Brandon's pixiel representation in a multiple frame sequence has been satisfied.
You mean video? 😂
Well made video, loved all the accompanying visuals for each point, especially the visualization of how far the shooting/running distance actually is
Realized I’ve watched one of your videos before! Love your work! Subscribing!
0/10 not enough "Rorke drift controlled"
Rorkes*
Islandlwana is an example of poor tactical awareness, massive intelegence failures and poor senior leadership. Rourke's Drift is different only in that John Chard had few choices and stuck to a simple plan and not become exposed to double envelopment and accepting what the British soldier did best- being bloody-minded enough to hang in by your fingernails until the the other side gave up..
LOL well put!
ZULUS ATTACK
FIGHT BACK TO BACK
SHOW THEM NO MERCY AND FIRE AT WILL
KILL OR BE KILLED
FACING, AWAITING A HOSTILE SPEAR
A NEW FRONTIER
THE END IS NEAR
THERE'S NO SURRENDER!
Sorry, Sabaton Lyrics are mandatory on videos about historical events they sang about
You are doing God's work sir
Can’t believe I’m only now finding this channel, love you how force me to think of all, and I mean all, the factors, big or small, in a battle scenario. History always leaves me in awe
Huzza, brandon has finally uploaded this video
I wish you were my history teacher in high school
God saw how glorious their uniforms were and decided to let them claim victory.
Also, nice Warhammer Reference. Love the Praetorian Guard, best Imperial Guard out there.
Part of the problem was the British soldiers had 2+ invuln saves for "balance" reasons.
Plus feel no pain and possibly eternal warrior
Brandon references Warhammer? I can die now.
ONLY IN DEATH DOES DUTY END!
MEN OF HARLECH STAND YE STEADY
A great introduction. I’m looking forward to seeing part 2 and hearing your observations about the battle.
The script is nearly done!
@@BrandonF I’ll be watching for it.
... if anyone pitched 2020 as a book or film in 2019...
I'd have called it a terrible Young-teen novel with an unsatisfying cliffhanger. I can only hope 2022 goes out in a bang.
"Rorke's Drift read like a bad fan-fiction."
Me: (Emu War flashback intensifies)
With such numbers there would be no need to adjust a gun site at all . Load point and fire , you couldn't miss you would hit some part of the corp of body's charging towards you . Keeping it together in such a situation is a different matter
Another great, entertaining and informative video Brandon. Thank you
I love your channel keep up the great stuff!
The virgin Verosimilism VS the Chad Reality.
During the Philippine Revolution, the teenage Lieutenant Jose Millan Astray (of great historical significance, much later, among other things as Francisco Francos mentor) and his thirty cazadores held the plaza and church of San Rafael Bulacan (Dec 1896) against some 2000 Filipino insurgents. So its been done.
Seige of Baler! One of the Lesser known Last Stands
Great video! Wikipedia isn’t a peer reviewed reliable source but who can resist when it holds so much information so easily!
sadly it IS peer to review by many people
Brandon I am so happy how much this channel has grown two years ago when I started watching it was less than ten thousand but now it is less than 15 thousand from 100k good work you are my favorite UA-cam👍🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
There's an old saying that tends to explain how nuts reality is, "Reality is stranger than fiction."
Was that a reference to Ork's Drift?
It’s a good thing that war isn’t a matter of killing the entire enemy force.
8:57 Sharpe appearing slowly from the bottom left is just masterful.
British Muzzleloaders did a great video about Martini Henry firing rates and how many times you could hit a single man running from x distance, compared to a muzzleloader and the previous Snider. Worth a watch.
Hurrah our most humble and obedient of servants returns! And also with a video on a fantastic subject.
I appreciate that you picked the 40k Praetorian Guard for your reference to Warhammer. They're honestly my favorite regiment and as of 2021, they've been out of production since '99, but you can get 3rd party conversions. But yes, they're based on this era of British History, which is sweet
Historical events like this are why I don't consider "plot armor" or "deus ex machinas" valid criticisms for most fiction. History is filled with strange incidences where the seemingly impossible happened. Soldiers miraculously charging through a hail of bullets only to be untouched, sudden storms destroying entire fleets, some random guy stumbling on a mother lode. Reality consistently proves stranger than fiction.
The diference between real life and fiction is that real life doesnt have to be "realistic"
As sir Terry Pratchett says, million to one shots happen 9 times in 10
Great introduction to the next video. Thanks for your effort.
Amazing little documentary mate really really enjoyed it 👍👍. When I was a kid the film was my favourite
I expected a typical Brandon rant, but now I'm getting a maths class
ZULU’S ATTACK, FIGHT BACK TO BACK
SHOW THEM NO MERCY AND FIRE AT WILL! ITS KILL OR BE KILLED
@@ScipioMexicanus FACING AWAITING A HOSTILE SPEAR, A NEW FRONTIER, THE END IS NEAR
"Because we're here, lad. Nobody else. Just us"
Spot on. The best line in the movie for me.
Very interesting and well done. Defiantly worth a sub.