Can we make REAL Floppy Disks work with THEC64®? 1541 Mini!
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2020
- "Honey, I shrunk the disks!" Ever wondered if the new THEC64 could get more nostalgic with a REAL floppy disk drive? Prepare for some floppy envy... Made possible by the supporters & our friendly sponsor PCBWay: www.pcbway.com/activity/anniv...
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#retrogaming #retrocomputing - Наука та технологія
The thing is... Windows isn't "doing something weird", it's formatting it as a FAT12 floppy disk, as you would expect it to... But the Mac is just treating it as a raw block device (like any USB drive) and is formatting it as such (with a full partition table, MBR, and most likely FAT32). -- so the Mac is what's being weird here, it's basically treating the device+disk as a really tiny thumb drive, instead of like a floppy disk.
Good points. Could be! But then, why do 720KB disks formatted in Windows work with THEC64 (as I mentioned in the video), but only 1.44MB don't work from Windows 🤔 In other words why does Windows format 720KB as a raw block device (from what you're saying), but it formats 1.44MB as a floppy? That's what I mean by "something weird" going on...
Yeah, that is what I was wondering... it showed FAT12 when he put the diskette in the Mac, which is correct. The Mac formatted it wrong, but luckily it was what the C64 needed.
What I am surprised about is the C64 firmware can read FAT32 but not FAT12?
Just a couple days ago I tried to format Micro SD cards for use in MSX computer cartridges for FAT16 on Windows 10 and they didn't work at all, but on an old Win7 laptop they worked every time with the same settings. Not really related to floppy disks but something is a little weird with Win10 and FAT.
@@knightcrusader That doesn't surprise me at all, TBH. FAT12 is only used on floppy drives--you can't format a typical USB drive using it, after all--so why would the makers of the C64 feel the need to support it?
Hi - it may be the same problem as with older pc's and hardware, windows xp and newer use a type of does emulator not a full dos like what was used up to Win 98
Try a older machine that boots up on genuine does 4 / 5 / 6.22 and try formating the floppy on those machines.
Back in the day i had a compaq 386 with win 3.1, that pc could format a variety of floppies that worked on "strange machines"
Dos 4 and 5 etc also has command line options for the format command - type format /? to review the options you can use
Regards
George
You've proven that even a small floppy can deliver a LOAD.
I absolutely love this. These should be mass produced, I bet there are a lot of hobbyists who would want to have one!
already have one of these drives, definitely want to print this case for it, looks awesome!
I actually never had a floppy drive with my C64. Always used a Commodore Datasette. 😄
Nothing like that "PRESS PLAY ON TAPE" to bring up the nostalgia 🤩
I love that the Krylon paint is an exact match to the C64. Great work there.
This is the best project of this kind I’ve ever seen. I LOVE these videos where you make diy fabrications of products you either couldn’t get or, better yet, never quite existed in the first place (your car, this drive, the Star Wars cabinet). Please make more!
Now all you need is an HDMI monitor that looks like a 1702 to go with this setup.
How about a mini cassette drive that uses a micro sd card?
@@rogerperkins Microcassette, instead :-) .
I was thinking the exact same thing
I haven't tried adding a USB hub to my C64-mini (yet), but if you can (and I don't see why you couldn't), then a 1702-mini would be an awesome place to sneak a small USB hub in also. So you could have 1 USB cable from the C-64 to the 1702-mini, and then ports for the 1541-mini, the joystick, and an external keyboard.
What about a video converter to go from HDMI to S-video or composite to use with a real 1702?
"Were you at the pool?" LOL!
Are you keeping up with the commodore
You should have included an image of the 5.1/4 in spindle hole on the label, it would have made it look even better. Still looks awesome though. :)
I've recently finished making this 1541-Mini. Very happy with it, and love how authentic it looks next to the C64 Mini. Great work devising this cool thing into the world, and all the hard work put into your videos!
I’m looking for one that works with C64 mini/maxi. Or that would read my Commodore 3 1/2 / 5.25 floppy disk On my computers, did you make a video of what you made and how it’s done
That Airwolf game runs exactly how I remember it. As the action speeds up, the music slows down.
He-Man used to do that too.
I've found some great videos on this channel. And I've just subscribed.
Thank you.
• You used the GUI interface to format the floppy. If you use the format command from the command-line, you get better control the parameters.
• _Airwolf_ still has one of the best theme songs of any TV show.
Yeah GParted on Linux has fat16 and fat32 right there and better control over the parameters while providing a nice GUI too!
These USB floppies don't behave like a real drive either, it has flash memory that it copies the floppy into before telling the computer, and makes it difficult or even impossible to format correctly, course, trying to mount a realy floppy drive in modern hardware is...uh.. tricky these days.
Started building a XP era desktop with a Athlon 64 and a Asrock Dual-Sata 939 socket motherboard to start playing some retro games and using retro hardware, will probably dual boot linux, handily it has a header for a proper floppy drive (which I'd love to test with a 5.25" drive too), even have a AGP slot "BFG TECH Geforce 6800 GT OC" graphics card which will be heaps of fun to test out, mercifully it also has Sata 1 and 2 ports, USB, and even a couple PCI-e slots so it can be fitted with modern parts too.
Tempted to customize the case like a Commodore computer, especially since I just found a real 1541 floppy drive recently...
For some reason watching you 3d print that case got me all nostalgic for using a vacuum former in school many moons ago 🙂
Amazing sound effects.
I loved seeing the old ZZap 64, I used to read that as a kid and had every edition. Unfortumately they were recycled years ago but loved the magazine
Isn't it weird that I grew up with all these computers (started with the mighty Speccy) and never did I think even in my wildest thoughts that all this was possible. To me the future always looked like the 60's view of it and not how it is today - a hybrid mash of the 70's and future. Yet, somehow, I knew this was where we'd end up. I don't know how to explain it, but maybe my brain just changed to accept what did change as inevitable and never thought any different. You know what though, I wouldn't have wanted to grow up and live through any other time. Well, except maybe 1000 years from now, where I could go to the fun park on the moon to see the sailors there...
I`m a massive Amiga fan myself and have a few machines, but i started with the C64 back in the day, and watching your videos like this brings back those feelings of excitement that i felt then, always look forward to watching your new videos, keep up the amazing work you are doing. Amazing
Amigazing! :D
You’re voice is so calming. I could listen to you all day.
Thank you for your kind words! Means a lot 👍🕹️
Yep, just saw this. You are a very resourceful bloke, with lot's of spare time in your hands. Loved the whole thing!
Thanks!!
Your lady, son, you are batting well above your average there. Greets from UK.
oh my GOD!!! awesome work with the disk driver 1,44!!!! greetings man!
If you could take an LCD monitor and add a 1702 front to it, that would be an insanely cool setup.
This!! Especially if screen was to scale!
Always had a love- hate relationship with the 1541. Like many, I started with the cassette so the jump to the 1541 was revolutionary. But it wasn’t long before some of the shortcomings started popping up. Loved this project though.
Why can’t USB EVER fit first time?
Good stuff as usual 😃
It's because USB is the first four dimensional connector.
This is a mystery that will never be solved.
USB cables have a dot or logo on the upside of the connector. You can feel it with your fingers, and see it with your eyes. Just make sure it's facing upwards in the device you're trying to plug it into and it'll slot in first time.
The only problem comes when you have connectors that are on their side, like in a PC tower or some TV on the side inputs. You just have to be aware that they've been rotated 90 degrees.
Or... you have some wise crack and they put the USB port on upside down for no reason what so ever, like my ZTE mobile phone. Doesn't even work with docking stations because of it unless I want the display facing away from me... Yea, just get USB-C connectors when possible from now on.
after 10 different plug attempts, finally we have usb-c
@@simonj48 yeah, I wish that was how it worked, but it's dependent on how the circuit board in the device is mounted. I have used a fair amount of devices where the USB socket is upside down to how it's supposed to be because the circuit board inside the device is upside down. 60% of the time it works every time!
ITS BEAUTIFUL!! I love that you don't cut corners. You have incredible attention to detail. Thank you!
Excellent video as always! You are for sure keeping up with the Commodore! Side note, you've inspired me to do more with my Amstrad PCW 8256. You sir are a National Treasure... on a local level ;-)
The hot glue sounds at 11:15 OMG!!! HAHAHA...
Great Job and video as per usual , thanks to the Perifractic family , my favorite retro family !
wow thank you so much for offering the project files for free
This is by far one of the coolest projects you have done! I thoroughly enjoyed it! You should offer this as a service or document it out as open-source. I’d buy it!
Thanks! Well the models are free in the description and you can just follow along with the video I guess 👍🕹️
Awesome. Thanks for doing that. Ooh you have IKEA GALANT desks too. BTW someone does now make. USB-B to Commodore serial adapter. You can plug the 1541 into a Windows PC and access the files directly over USB.
Wonderful job. I still have the original C64 and 1702 monitor and disk drive and 1525 printer stored upstairs somewhere along with the "Your Commodore 64" book and Programmers book. I haven't used it in decades, but I'm thinking of getting it out to play some games. I'm surprised to find that there are a number of people still interested in this old machine on the internet. I didn't play games originally as I used it for programming in basic and assembly and took the board out to build a robot in the 1980s. It's in my mind that I spent around 2k for the above - which was much more in purchasing power in those days. I'm retired now and may power the old 1 MHz up just to see what I can do with it.
Sound of gluing floppy drive to the box.... epic.
Absolutely love this project!
Amazing work and video. I own a 1581 myself for the C64, but now I want this cute little 3D printed 1541 for my theC64 mini and maxi. 👍🏻
You sir are crazy talented and have some of the best creator videos I have the pleasure of watching. Outstanding work and very inspiring to give it a go too. Such a great watch 🏴🤘😎
THIS....IS....AWESOME!!!! Thanks for keeping retro alive.
@Retro Recipes Krylon Camouflage paint is helping this cheap Chinese drive Camouflage itself as a mini version of it's more expensive big brother 😂 love that.
Top production value videos as always. And the drive is superb as well. Love it!
What a brilliant idea and so well finished.
I love how Puppyfractic hangs on your every word!😎😁
Pretty cool! Love the label too!
That's fantastic and so worth it. I love using floppies on my Amiga and retro PCs and this is a great way to have that feeling on your TheC64. Love you work as always.
This channel makes me dive into my beloved 80's...Just love it!!!
This should go into serial production. I'd buy one... Great work!
just ordered TheC64 with a wee bit of Christmas cash - will have to go grab one of these USB floppy drives and try this out - looks like good fun as haven't used a floppy drive in ages
The irony is we would have thought a 3.5 inch floppy was so advanced back in the 80s... We either used 5 1/4 disks or Cassette, which I'm glad to see the back of, hopefully nobody's nostalgic for Data cassettes! 😂
Wow, i really enjoy your videos more and more, well done and excellent care for details, love it!
Just remember that "Macintosh" is able to interface with almost everything... including an alien computer (on "Independence Day" movie)
But that was a PowerMac, not a crappy x86 IBM clone. Without the amazing might of PowerPC, they can't possibly hack the aliens.
Good work! I do love "keeping up with" your Commodore vids. I had a childhood journey from Plus/4 to C64 to Amiga 500 😊
The key part was "MBR". Because floppies are so small, they're not usually partitioned. However, practically all USB flash disks are big enough to warrant partition tables. Windows probably takes a similar stance, that floppies don't need partition tables. You could use fdisk or parted in Linux too. Neither of those cares about the disk they're operating on, only that it is a block device.
Looks AMAZING!! Nice work!!
I know what's going on. What's the difference between a floppy disk and a USB drive (any type)? A partition table.
A floppy disk can have a partition table on it, but back in the day, it didn't have one. The first sector on the disk (boot sector) ID'ed that it was a floppy disk and the file system was put on the disk not in a partition (like a hard drive), but from that first sector on (like an individual partition).
In essence, a hard drive partition is just a larger capacity floppy disk... just without the floppiness (and physical accessibility).
Windows, having it's heritage from MS-DOS, remembers how to properly format a floppy and lay out the file system, *without the partition sector*. Because that's how MS-DOS 3.3 did it.
The Mac is treating the floppy as a USB hard drive (just not so hard) and slapping a partition table on it.
So what is The C64 looking for when it first opens that first sector of a disk? It's looking for a partition table, not a boot sector. It rejects the latter.
I bet if you took that Mac formatted USB-driven floppy and stuck it in an old PC running MS-DOS 3.3 or later (up to 6.22), the PC will say "HEY! WHAT THE HELL DID YOU STICK IN THE DRIVE?!?!"
I wonder if it would make a difference to format the drive using command prompt and using some of the options there. There are also format utilities out there that might help.
Not if that USB drive IS a floppy drive.
@@SummerFunMan Nope, USB floppy drive uses the USB Mass Storage protocol, like everything else (even as a fall-back from the newer protocol). While it's ID'ed as a floppy, it's technically just a storage device.
@@strredwolf: It's still a floppy disk drive, so it's a floppy disk drive regardless of what connection it uses. I even have one and it comes up as an A or B drive somehow.
@@SummerFunMan You can assign any drive to those letters at time of formatting. All Windows does is recognize "Hey, this is a floppy drive, I need to treat it old school..."
Macs? "This is a storage device. It needs a partition table. Floppy disk? You mean that crap we tossed 20 years ago? Grow up!"
Linux/Unix? "Okay, that's a floppy drive. Here's the device access point for it. I even named it starting with 'fd' so you know it's one. Feel free to add a partition table or access it raw. It's all on you."
Omg this is amazing! Im going to make one of these right away!!
I spit out my tea at the glue noises!!
Fantastic once again ! You give me so much joy seeing all the retro refurbs and this adaptation of the usb floppy to look like a 1541 drive is breathtaking. You’re a very smart guy CJ and love the shows! Here’s to many more with you ladyfractic and of course puppyfractic
Cheers Harry!
That is an incredible 3d print + paint job!!!!!!!
04:11 You always have to plug in an USB-A plug three times: First up (doesn't fit), then down (doesn't fit either), then up again (now fits miraculously)...
Kudos! That looks amazing. Nice job!
Tremendous end result, that disk drive looks awesome!! I had to chuckle at the PC Fuzz game selling only one copy comment too, oh and at puppy fractic when she grunted at just the right moment too...great stuff, made me smile :-D
This is so awesome! I wonder how difficult it would be to edit the STL's a bit to form a 1571 style? I was a bigshot I guess, as I started with a 128 and 1571 in '87 and only acquired a 1541 in '95 from my girlfriend's dusty closet....her real closet, not a euphemism. 😁
When I tossed my 3.5" floppies and drives a few years ago I swore they would just be remembered as low storage and unreliable tech that would never become cool vintage like our lower storage and equally unreliable 5.25 Commodore software/hardware and here I am pricing usb floppy drives and 3d printers on Amazon. Nostalgia is so silly but so fun.
Woot for new video love all your videos send you and your wife and dogs a virtual wave
Thanks for infecting me with the retro computing virus!
I just bought a C64 on ebay after i had given away my childhood computer some 35 years ago to a kid who i thought needed to learn some basic BASIC.
I'm going to watch your buyer's guide again now to make sure it's working for the next 35 years...
"It's hard now! Used to be floppy"
I laughed so hard I nearly choked on my sandwich :)
That was excellent finishing work on that print!
I design and print practical and machine parts all the time, but definitely need to learn how to do advanced post-processing and painting parts.
I love what you can accomplish with 3D printing! I look forward to seeing what else you come up with. =)
Yay, Saturday morning, cup of Tea (Irish Breakfast) and a new video from Retro Recipes, perfect.
Great work on the 1541 mini and the sound effects repertoire is getting better and better.
Always with all the good tools Chris :) The drive looks great BTW - great stuff!
Fantastic video, fascinating watching things get 3D printed 👍
For the C64 Maxi, a full scale 1581 looking case would be so cool.
Finished it tonight .. thanks again ..... love the Videos
I remember getting my first 1581 and thought I AM SUPERIOR it lasted about 2.2 days.
Brilliantly entertaining as usual. Really look forward to these videos. Top job 👌👍
Very exciting presentation! seeing the Maxi use a floppy is one of the more satisfying videos I've seen in a while.
I want a C64 MAXI and am looking forward to the US release and the price being reasonable.
Thank you for the great channel.
Amazing work, that looks so great!
Loving this...!! You are so talented mate.. looks amazing
Thank you so much 😀
i dont miss floppy disks 💾
i absolutely love your 3D print though
i have the "mini" and "maxi" but never grew up with c64 - had the greenscreen apple pc at school & the NES system
looking forward to checking out the library on the c64 ✨
So talented. The homebuild floppy drive casing was really impressive.
Well done, another great video.. Thank you 👍
That's cool.
Since I made my myself a "C64 Maxi" off a broken C64 and a Raspberry Pi 3 before the Mini even arrived, I could see myself making use of your project as well.
Thanks for showcasing this.
Good video. You should carry that 3D printed case in your store.
Everyone knows USB cables are multidimensional, I'm pretty sure many of them have at least five sides! Another great video, love the look of the drive!
I have had similar problem with an old PC. I used a floppy disc that was formatted in W10. When I was comparing sectors, I found out that in sector #0 at position 15h has to be value F9h to get it working. I don't remember what information it exactly holds, but if interested, I can dig into my old notes.
Awesome was this your Perfect Christmas Box , nice xmas tree
The sound effects are comedy genius!
You pained the drive and I no longer can see it. Ohh... You used camouflage paint. Got it. :D Another great video, BTW.
Haha!
wow I like how you made 3.5" look as big as 5.25" :)
very nice video (drive 1541) nostalgie
Great stuff! In the last 10 days I was thinking to buy one of them and connect it on my 1541ultimate🙂
I will put a sticker on it... 1581😉
I hope my English is understandable😂
👋🏻
12:33 Your paper cutter is named Carl! Great video, too!
Lol good eye! I'd been calling him Chopper ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is great. Keep it up. Love all the vids.
i need to get my "The64" to read my 1541 floppies.
That's pretty awesome. Nice work.
This is very cool. Thank you.
That's one hell of a project and beautifully executed, all except the final finish and paint job dude :) But heaps of kudos to you!!!
very cool find here its awesome!
Wow, a sight to behold. And the disk drive looks cool too.
I totally get that this is about the nostalgic disk drive feeling and also about proof of concept. But besides that, the idea isn't really that out there ludicrous. What is it we rapidly run out of on TheC64 Maxi and rather instantly on the Mini? - Yes, USB-Ports!
So... how about a miniature 1541 lookalike with a USB-hub in the back, and obviously since so many of us retro-nutcases already use SD2IEC card readers and Pi1541 drive emulators (and not to mention that SD and microSD cards already look a tiny little bit like floppy disks) then need I say it; a card reader in the front.
Gr8 fun project, as usual , keep up the good stuff , really enjoyed this epuside
Well done!