I always love watching an interview with Matthew Vines! So glad this came up on my algorithms. He speaks with so much grace and logic. A true apologist!
Nice that you acknowledged that. So then stop claiming the levitical laws regarding sexuality apply to us. And, no, Paul doesn't count either. He only mentions same sex acts in connection to idolatry. Completely unrelated to how we understand homosexuality today. The people who are "coping" here are the fundies who read into the Bible whatever fits their worldview. Too bad that they don't get this worldview from the Bible.
So much to digest here - I probably need to listen again. But my first impressions are ,firstly, of a very nuanced and inclusive guest. I'm impressed with how he holds orthodox beliefs about Jesus, and affirming principles together. His take down of queer theology was simply savage...My second impression, as always, was of a courageous interviewer...afterall, you're not inviting discussion on abstract issues here, but rather, matters of the deepest personal significance...
Hey! Thanks so much for your feedback. I'm glad you enjoyed it as I felt like it was a very rigorous discussion and Matthew is super smart and makes some compelling points! Especially at 23:00
No, you can’t - in 2008, I was a gay-identified man, in a committed, monogamous same-sex relationship, active in an affirming church, where we called ourselves gay Christians. Then I found myself in an ICU where the medical team classified me clinically dead after a 22-minute flatline. I experienced death, judgement and hell. When I couldn’t take any more demonic torment, I cried out in repentance, “Jesus!” and I heard the Savior say, “I am here.” At that moment, I saw with my eyes the Wind of the Holy Spirit fill my ICU and with great power, He pick up Satan and the demonic and blew them out of the room. On that day, my life changed, the redemptive Blood of Jesus cleared my mind of perversion and completely healed and restored every failing organ. Glory to God!
Sounds like you have zero points to make 😂. The Bible is pretty clear: Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew:7:12 Do you see "hate LGBTQ" in that sentence? None of the "clobber verses" does apply to LGBTQ. Only the cherry picking evangelicals think so because they read into the Bible what they try to find in it.
27:30 yes but what all of the hundreds of denomination have interpreted is that homosexuality is a sin, point blank period. Stop trying to cope and just accept the word and truth for what it is. If you lead people away through this cope you will be punished even worse then if you were just quietly sinning yourself.
I'm wondering if people interpret the bible and these issues as black-and-white because it is easier to do so? That also raises the question, why the heck is the bible so hard to understand anyway. Like if God is divine, why not just make it simpler to understand!?
To be fair, not one denomination condemned slavery for over a thousand years, because of how these denominations interpreted the Scriptures. Even then it was the Quakers, who, as a standalone group condemned slavery in 1600s Europe. During the 18th and 19th centuries in America, the churches' positions on slavery were determined by how the relevant Scriptures were interpreted, typically within the geographic context of a given church. Point being, the church has not historically accurately or faithfully interpreted every line of Scripture. So we can't necessarily rely on church history as our guide post for how to read the Bible
@melodyrachel I love these questions! Personally I believe that a lot of the black and white interpretations of scripture are motivated by fear. But I definitely also think ease plays its part. Unfortunately it's just all too human to take the path of least resistance. And then of course there's the matter of our worldview, which we tend to hold tightly to, so that if it's called into question we can easily double down to defend it because we feel threatened in our flesh, instead of open to consider that a different encounter or perspective might be exactly what we need to grow our faith in that moment. And I actually love the question of why the Bible is so hard to read. The more I've read it, the more I've come to the conclusion that it isn't an informational manual, but rather a living, dynamic expression of God at every turn that meets us personally and transformationally at every turn of our own lives. It's one of the most powerful and foundational ways that God engages in relationship with us. And just as in our earthly relationships, where people reveal themselves to each other bit by bit, and trust and communication builds on each other, so it is I believe in our relationship with God through the Word. So sometimes we'll be reading a scripture we've read a dozen times when suddenly we see something brand new. So I think the Bible is cloaked because God doesn't just want us to dryly read it but to engage it and experience it, and come away not merely knowing more of it but knowing more of Him. Additionally though, I think much of what's written would have been understood with relative ease by its original audience. We do need to remember that we, especially we in the West, are far, far removed from the cultures and times that the Bible originally addressed, and that has contributed to a lot of confusion and misinterpretation down through history. That said, I believe that God still makes his heart and truth known to us as we approach his word with humility and faith.
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew:7:12 Can't get any clearer than this. But here's a bit more: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Matthew:7:2 It's pretty clear that WE ourselves have to decide which behavior we consider sinful in others. How do we decide that? Simply by applying the double commandment of love and the golden rule. Christianity really isn't all that complicated. The Bible simply never says anything about LGBTQ issues. That's a simple fact. To claim otherwise you could also claim the Bible mentioned cars, TV or streaming services. The concept of homosexuality how we see it today was developed in the 19th century. BTW - the same time when fundamentalist Christianity as we know it today was developed.
It’s important to remain respectful in these complex and sensitive discussions, acknowledging that Christians can have good faith disagreements in interpreting ancient collections of religious texts written in drastically varying cultural, historical, and linguistic contexts thousands of years ago. Richard Hays is a leading New Testament scholar who is LGBT-affirming, one of the millions of Christians who have devoted prayerful study and attention to this matter.
@@onwear8176 Respecting different interpretations of the Bible is a moral calling for Christians. It is sinful to pride our understanding over others’.
@@user-yx4ib7oh8v I have chosen to listen to the interpretation of the Bible from Jesus. And David Wilkerson and Derek Prince. And was a homosexual for most of my life. Until I REPENTED, turned away from SIN, fasted was delivered and never looked back to the plow. All of which are found in the Bible. Interesting you used the word pride.
Also please site the scripture that states we are to respect other interpretations of the Bible. Because I can give you at least one that states a punishment will fall on those that take away or add to.
I always love watching an interview with Matthew Vines! So glad this came up on my algorithms. He speaks with so much grace and logic. A true apologist!
Hey, thanks for watching! I’m glad you enjoyed it, he is really interesting and smart.
Also, can you stop going back to the Old Testament, those laws were for the Jews, New Testament is for the Christians, stick to that.
Nice that you acknowledged that. So then stop claiming the levitical laws regarding sexuality apply to us. And, no, Paul doesn't count either. He only mentions same sex acts in connection to idolatry. Completely unrelated to how we understand homosexuality today. The people who are "coping" here are the fundies who read into the Bible whatever fits their worldview. Too bad that they don't get this worldview from the Bible.
Great interview, Keep it up❤
Thank you for watching!
So much to digest here - I probably need to listen again. But my first impressions are ,firstly, of a very nuanced and inclusive guest. I'm impressed with how he holds orthodox beliefs about Jesus, and affirming principles together. His take down of queer theology was simply savage...My second impression, as always, was of a courageous interviewer...afterall, you're not inviting discussion on abstract issues here, but rather, matters of the deepest personal significance...
Hey! Thanks so much for your feedback. I'm glad you enjoyed it as I felt like it was a very rigorous discussion and Matthew is super smart and makes some compelling points! Especially at 23:00
Great interview, Melody! Of course I'm a big fan of Matthew and The Reformation Project so I'm a bit biased haha. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you so much for watching! Glad you enjoyed it ❤
I don’t think I have really heard Matthew quite like this in a long time! Great interview!
I'm glad I was able to get him on! He's super interesting for sure!
No, you can’t - in 2008, I was a gay-identified man, in a committed, monogamous same-sex relationship, active in an affirming church, where we called ourselves gay Christians. Then I found myself in an ICU where the medical team classified me clinically dead after a 22-minute flatline. I experienced death, judgement and hell. When I couldn’t take any more demonic torment, I cried out in repentance, “Jesus!” and I heard the Savior say, “I am here.” At that moment, I saw with my eyes the Wind of the Holy Spirit fill my ICU and with great power, He pick up Satan and the demonic and blew them out of the room. On that day, my life changed, the redemptive Blood of Jesus cleared my mind of perversion and completely healed and restored every failing organ. Glory to God!
Sounds like this guy is trying hard to cope.
Sounds like you have zero points to make 😂.
The Bible is pretty clear:
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew:7:12
Do you see "hate LGBTQ" in that sentence? None of the "clobber verses" does apply to LGBTQ. Only the cherry picking evangelicals think so because they read into the Bible what they try to find in it.
27:30 yes but what all of the hundreds of denomination have interpreted is that homosexuality is a sin, point blank period. Stop trying to cope and just accept the word and truth for what it is. If you lead people away through this cope you will be punished even worse then if you were just quietly sinning yourself.
I'm wondering if people interpret the bible and these issues as black-and-white because it is easier to do so? That also raises the question, why the heck is the bible so hard to understand anyway. Like if God is divine, why not just make it simpler to understand!?
To be fair, not one denomination condemned slavery for over a thousand years, because of how these denominations interpreted the Scriptures. Even then it was the Quakers, who, as a standalone group condemned slavery in 1600s Europe. During the 18th and 19th centuries in America, the churches' positions on slavery were determined by how the relevant Scriptures were interpreted, typically within the geographic context of a given church. Point being, the church has not historically accurately or faithfully interpreted every line of Scripture. So we can't necessarily rely on church history as our guide post for how to read the Bible
@melodyrachel I love these questions! Personally I believe that a lot of the black and white interpretations of scripture are motivated by fear. But I definitely also think ease plays its part. Unfortunately it's just all too human to take the path of least resistance. And then of course there's the matter of our worldview, which we tend to hold tightly to, so that if it's called into question we can easily double down to defend it because we feel
threatened in our flesh, instead of open to consider that a different encounter or perspective might be exactly what we need to grow our faith in that moment.
And I actually love the question of why the Bible is so hard to read. The more I've read it, the more I've come to the conclusion that it isn't an informational manual, but rather a living, dynamic expression of God at every turn that meets us personally and transformationally at every turn of our own lives. It's one of the most powerful and foundational ways that God engages in relationship with us. And just as in our earthly relationships, where people reveal themselves to each other bit by bit, and trust and communication builds on each other, so it is I believe in our relationship with God through the Word. So sometimes we'll be reading a scripture we've read a dozen times when suddenly we see something brand new. So I think the Bible is cloaked because God doesn't just want us to dryly read it but to engage it and experience it, and come away not merely knowing more of it but knowing more of Him.
Additionally though, I think much of what's written would have been understood with relative ease by its original audience. We do need to remember that we, especially we in the West, are far, far removed from the cultures and times that the Bible originally addressed, and that has contributed to a lot of confusion and misinterpretation down through history. That said, I believe that God still makes his heart and truth known to us as we approach his word with humility and faith.
@@MMLZombie I agree with this sentiment, thanks for sharing 🙏 people can use this kind of stuff to be really dogmatic for sure.
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew:7:12
Can't get any clearer than this. But here's a bit more:
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Matthew:7:2
It's pretty clear that WE ourselves have to decide which behavior we consider sinful in others. How do we decide that? Simply by applying the double commandment of love and the golden rule. Christianity really isn't all that complicated. The Bible simply never says anything about LGBTQ issues. That's a simple fact. To claim otherwise you could also claim the Bible mentioned cars, TV or streaming services. The concept of homosexuality how we see it today was developed in the 19th century. BTW - the same time when fundamentalist Christianity as we know it today was developed.
Sure you can.....a lukewarm one.
It’s important to remain respectful in these complex and sensitive discussions, acknowledging that Christians can have good faith disagreements in interpreting ancient collections of religious texts written in drastically varying cultural, historical, and linguistic contexts thousands of years ago. Richard Hays is a leading New Testament scholar who is LGBT-affirming, one of the millions of Christians who have devoted prayerful study and attention to this matter.
@@user-yx4ib7oh8v is God respectful or tolerant toward sin?
@@onwear8176 Respecting different interpretations of the Bible is a moral calling for Christians. It is sinful to pride our understanding over others’.
@@user-yx4ib7oh8v I have chosen to listen to the interpretation of the Bible from Jesus. And David Wilkerson and Derek Prince. And was a homosexual for most of my life. Until I REPENTED, turned away from SIN, fasted was delivered and never looked back to the plow. All of which are found in the Bible.
Interesting you used the word pride.
Also please site the scripture that states we are to respect other interpretations of the Bible. Because I can give you at least one that states a punishment will fall on those that take away or add to.