Anyone watching this by the date of this comment: loudness meter has since been updated; it's now easier & has different output options. If you follow Kenny's tutorial here, and then use the "all (inverted)" setting instead of simply "on" in the plugin's option panel, it will automatically invert the volume output for you, instead of doing that through the automation item properties. Then all you have to do is adjust the amplitude and baseline for the automation item. Hope this saves you some time. :)
To further save some time from here, once you have it set up, save it as a default preset and it'll load in all set up whenever you load the plugin. And if you have the "Automatically add envelopes when tweaking" setting on, you don't even need to arm any envelopes, just set the automation mode to write, play the track, and it builds your envelope.
I sure wish there was an updated tutorial on this. I know some folks here have tried to explain how to set this up with the newer Loudness Meter plugin in the comments below, and thank you for that, but It's not totally clear to me how to get this going. Definitely not the same as having Kenny explain it, which is always incredibly clear, concise and 100% reliable.
This is not gain automation, this is volume automation. Gain occurs pre-fader, volume occurs post-fader. Slap a VU meter on the channel being automated and toggle the automation on and off, you'll see it makes zero difference to the VU meter because you're automating volume, not gain. Do everything you're doing the same way, but at 3:18 while you're setting it back to read, also tick the box for "Volume Pre-FX", that will give you a gain envelope that you can drag your automation onto *thumbs up*
This actually saved me money - I wanted to buy a plugin for this purpose the next days; now I don't need it anymore! Thanks, Kenny! Anyways: "ALT on the PC, OPTION on the Mac" should be a shirt (yeah, it's just the nerd in me...) :)
To all the guys complaining that the same work could also be achieved using a compressor, well, you might be right, but the point is: This video teaches us a lot about envelopes and automation, especially that you can also generate automation curves from invisible internal fx parameters and not only from tweakable sliders and knobs and that it's always worth the effort to look at all the automation parameters offered by the plugins you use.
What they fail to realize is that yes, the same work can be achieved by compressors BUT it's done at the cost of dynamics/distortion, gain automation is done because it is non-destructive and also leads to better results and less destruction / loss of dynamics when you finally do add compression as the compressor is working with more leveled peaks, it also means you are less likely to need serial compression to tame those peaks saving time and focus.
Exactly. I use PowAir for these purposes but I learned a hell of a lot about Reaper in the process of watching this, and I'm sure I'll be able to put it to use for something completely different!
@@RealSiViX the dynamics is what we are trying to reduce here. That's the whole point: to reduce the dynamic range. This is compression. It's a manually, slow compression. Which is really helpful before sending the signal to an effect that is more in line with what we think of as a "real compressor," but let's not split hairs. We are adjusting the output amplitude over time based on changes to the input amplitude in order to decrease the amount of change. That's dynamic compression. It's slow and subtle and manually tweakable, but it is compression.
@@jmjeffries2 - I mean, you say, "let's not split hairs", but yet, here you are, splitting hairs... My point was more leaning towards the fact that running every track through a compressor for gain automation is prone to introducing distortion whereas proper gain-staging is not. Plus the fact that compression occurs post-fader whereas proper gain-staging occurs pre-fader (something this video gets VERY wrong as this is volume automation, not gain automation) where a 24-bit file that was recorded too hot can have it's gain reduced to below 0db and have it's dynamics properly restored whereas running that same 24-bit file through a compressor will not remove that distortion and is in fact, likely to make it worse. Just DON'T gain stage with compressors.
And just a heads-up for anybody reading this thread who would like to know the CORRECT way to gain stage in Reaper: Do everything the video shows the exact same way, but at 3:18 while you're setting it back to read, also tick the box for "Volume Pre-FX", this will give you a gain envelope that you can drag your automation onto instead of dragging it onto the volume envelope...
GJ, Kenny! Thx, will try to use this method in voice over projects. I think "volume pre-fx envelope" much better then just "volume envelope" with gain rider, because the waveform will visually change. "Volume envelope" will be useful for pre-fader sends to verbs etc.
Greetings, I was looking for how to explain to some students, who are not many, how to do this automation without falling into third-party plugins in a traditional way. Thank you, you have a new subscriber, I will see what I can as long as I have time. Yours videos, thanks for sharing,,
For some reason, my Vocal Rider plugin wasn't writing properly to my vocal track envelope and I was so frustrated I was about to cry. Sure enough, Kenny G has a solution that's totally awesome and totally free. You are a gift, my friend.
If your envelope baseline is not in the middle like Kenny's, go to Preferences > Editing Behaviour > Envelope Display & change the volume envelope range to -inf..+24dB. Mine was set to -inf...+6dB which made getting the boosts correct pretty tricky. Hope that helps someone!
i swear i saw it today on another video and when i came from home i thought " let me look for how this is done in reaper" and i see you uploaded this video 1 hour ago... u are the best kenny baba!
You are such a fantastic teacher… very few people can actually read the minds of the students and deliver accurately to how can perceive the thoughts… thanks a ton …
There's also a fantastic script by EEL called Envelope based Compressor v2(available in Reapack) that can write the effect of compression directly as volume automation. Highly recommended and very accurate!
I am really just starting to look under the hood in Reaper after about a year of casual use. The best advice I can give to novices is watch the tutorials BEFORE you run out and buy a plug in. This program has a ton of firepower and Kenny's tutorials on well laid out. Thank you Kenny, and Happy New Year!
A lot of the firepower is hiding in the midst of the vast expanse of customizability, so yep, definitely worth looking up tutorials for how to do a thing before dropping money on a plugin to do that thing.
Hi Kenny, I had some trouble opening the Item Properties. Just in case someone stumbled in the same issue: Right click on the automation Item(Volume) then select: "Automation items" and "Insert new automation item". Now you can see the volume label. The rest is on the video. Thanks for the video. Great tutorial as always!!
Are you kidding me? what am i gonna do with my Waves Vocal rider now? I just tried this for normalizing all sorts if audio tracks and it's amazing. I even used it on the pre FX trim. That boosted the noise floor but it was easily controllable with some minor adjustments. Then a round of RX cleaned it up completely. It took me 20 mins to mix a 2 min video. That's half than my normal time. Thanks Kenny. I wish I thought of using it this way. Better late than never.
This is so awesome! I would probably move the envelope to the "Pre-Fader" Volume Envelope for even more flexibility. This way I can control how much the signal is affected by a compressor and leaves the Volume unaffected for general loudness control. Reaper is such a joy. Kenny is such a Master. Thank you!
@@REAPERMania Kenny I came to this after watching a vid from 2017 where you actually do use Pre-Fader volume while demoing how to draw the automation curve manually. Is there any reason you chose volume on this demo in particular? I guess because we can see that fader control responding in real time?
Thanks Kenny :) I was considering buying a vocal rider so this saved me quite a few quid! As always, your tutorials are so educational and easy to follow. Fine work my good man, fine work :)
If we have a hero who make JS Rider for live performance. Just one plug without other strange manipulations. Something like Waves vocal rider but with LUFS metering. It can be unbeatable!
This is frigging cool. Thanks Kenny for again showing us how to use Reaper instead of just buying a plugin. It's awesome to know how this stuff works. Thanks!
You've been knocking it out of the park lately, Kenny! This is invaluable. I'll be trying this on my current project. Even at 25-50%, it should make volume automation a lot less tedious, especially with the bad mic technique singers. This would also work well with lead instruments.
Wow -- I love learning how to do things I never even knew you could do and ended up thinking about all of the possibilities... excellent video as usual!
Might want to update this video, as I was able to figure it out, but some of the items and menus have changed, like in the loudness meter... when you activate the envelope writing, you can select "All (inverted)" and it writes the envelope already inverted like a vocal rider would function.
Late to the party, but absolutely brilliant, Kenny! Great stuff as always. 'using Reaper since version 3+ and never knew this was possible. Saves countless hours of 'insert point'.
This can be done with any meter plugin, Youlean Meter for example? Cuz I couldn't install any of the plug-ins mentioned in this video... Would you gimme a hand here Kenny, cuz it's so cool what you done here...
Good thing I only spent $29.00 on the "other " plug-in a few years ago. This is easier to use...gives you a good visual of what's happening. I love it. Reaper just keeps getting better and better.
You're an absolute maniac. I just write and record stuff at home for me for fun and every time I have a problem or question you've already made a video about it. These tutorials are invaluable to the beginner man.
Instead of re-drawing the beginning of the automation item, wouldn't it make more sense to do a start offset by ~100-200ms? LUFS-M is a measurement of the last 400ms of the signal so any time there is silence and then suddenly a loud part there will be this lag in when the riding kicks in. I've found that a start offset of 100ms pretty much always works perfectly!
Thanks Kenny! However, there is too much manipulation. There is a much simpler and more effective way: we are talking about the "envelope based compressor", made by my compatriot. By adjusting parameters such as Precomp (similar to lookahead) and RMS (in the latest versions), you can quickly and easily achieve what you want. Works with the selected time area. The script is in Reapack. Precomp can reach several tens of milliseconds, and RMS is about 30 + -. I usually edit it manually, periodically "trying on" this script, until manual editing becomes impractical. Then I use this script in RMS (above) and in peak mode. The script is in Reapack. You can make a button on the toolbar and rejoice. Sorry if english is bad. Google is to blame.)))
I don't think it's going to work (and sound) in exactly the same way though. You could argue that any compressor with a ''look-ahead'' function would also be a type of a vocal rider but it's not really the same thing. The way compressors work is that you effectively shape the transient part (or the whole envelope) of a signal, so the 2 techniques are applicable for different uses in my opinion.
@@mod3l Sounds not just the same, but better. And the accuracy can be adjusted FASTER at times. It is the RMS parameter in combination with Precomp that gives a smooth curve, as well as the built-in ability to reduce the number of points. Transients and sound microrelief are not affected.
@@ДенисЛогинов-й2э ''Better'' doesn't mean it's really better, it just means it's different, and NO, a compressor (or an envelope compressor) definitely isn't an envelope follower, like the Loudness meter JS is (when spewing out an envelope). If you like the sound of it, that's fine, but they both are different tools for different situations.
@@mod3l Why argue? I, of course, could spend a lot of time here, explaining the essence of Vocal Rider .... work. What's the use of "shaking the air"? Less theory, because without practice, its value is zero. Just give it a try, taking the parameters I suggested above as input. I am sure that by adjusting the settings, you can easily adjust the accuracy of the inverted envelope repeat. Here "especially straight" hands do not even need to have. Compare this to the work of Vocal Rider (waves), rendering its result, and you will understand that the tool I offer is much more flexible in customization. Vocal Rider (waves), like many other plugins, heals in one place and cripples in another.
@@mod3l The above script is of course not an envelope repeater, but it can be easily turned into an inverted envelope repeater. You got likes, apparently, from those who have not yet understood this or have not tried this script from the word "absolutely".
Love you Ken..at the coal face since the early days..videos like this; unlocking these tricks in reaper make be feel proud because i want that reassurance that there's so much more under the hood in the software.
As usual.... Kenny does it again! I always add your videos to my collection so I can access them whenever I have a question or need some help with a project. How about a short one using JS Chorus, with lots of voices? Needed something like that for crowd simulation. Thanx again Kenny! Keep them coming! I also wanted to add that I purchased Reaper because of your tutorials! Make sure you let them know that!
Awesome! Question: you're using a pre-FX meter and letting it control post-FX volume. Wouldn't it make more sense to use a post-FX meter to control post-FX volume?
@@REAPERMania I don't quite get the logic then? Because the fader is managing what you hear after the FX, but the automation write is coming before them, ie much higher spikes. You might have to adjust the amplitude less with post/post. Hmm, that might actually be a good reason to go pre -- more range to fiddle with as it seems the amplitude slider only goes up to 100.
@@yikelu You can try to logically use the way that makes the most sense but because you can control the range, you can really do it either way. I like to do it this way because I might change my compressor later. And I don't want to keep changing my envelope to match. You could put this on the pre vol if you prefer. But at the end of the day, the only that matters is that you're happy with the level of your vocal. And I always tweak the envelope anyway.
HOLY CRAP! I don't remember how I found your channel (recommendation from another random video I was watching) but WOW! Every one of your videos is gold. This one really blew my mind. I'm not much of a sound guy. I do videography asa one man band so I know enough about sound design to get by on small things (noise removal, EQ, removing some reverb ... simple stuff). This ... this is wild!
My main issue with this method is that it boosts all the sibilance, plosives, breaths and silences. By the time you fix all those and other areas which need fixing , you might as well just ride the fader manually by hand. However, I find the fastest method is actually to use dynamic split (or even just manually split for more accuracy), select all the items and normalize them to 0.0db then just bring all the items down to the appropriate level. That way it doesn't boost any of the sibilance etc. You can't hear the splits if you adjust your crossfade settings and make sure you only split in the appropriate places in between words. If there are any long syllables which can't be split or beginnings or endings of words which need boosting, just press V and draw a volume automation just for those parts.
When using this technique, is there any way to prevent the envelope raising to top level on the ending of vocal phrases? I'm getting a very pronounced raise making the vocal come up very loud at each phrase ending, having to manually edit the envelope on the entire song, for each phrase. It seems Kenny had this issue with some breathing on the vocal track, but it wasn't so exaggerated as I'm experiencing. Aside from this issue, i think it's a great way to control a vocal track before sending it to a compressor. Thanks!
Kenny ...I've solved it, it was my mistake, I think - the laptop version had the SWS extensions installed which has the 'Enable Marker Actions'. Installed SWS extensions onto desktop version, enabled marker actions and all now works. Obvious really. Anyway a big thanks to you and your channel, I use it quite often as I'm a semi knowledgable amatuer, and your channel is an excellent source for explanations and how-tos.
How many times have I ridden faders only to go back to tweek points, which takes ages when using a single fader on a Fader Port . Yet again Kenny you have saved me hours. Every day is a school day, Thanks.
It SEEMS like you could get a similar effect with a compressor with look-ahead, slow attack/release, and long RMS period. Some advantages of that is it is easy to change the various parameters (threshold, ratio, times) without editing points and faster to set up. One advantage of this is having individually editable points. Maybe they sound/act significantly different? It's also just a different way of looking at the same problem.
This will be a nice time saver. I won't have to manually create automation lines (Volume Pre-FX) for very dynamic tracks so compressors don't have to do all the work of taming the peaks.
Wonderful lessons. Thank you very much. It would be interesting to see how you work on the project from start to finish. I think it was super instructive
Are you hiding in my studio? I swear this week I've been working on exactly this kind of stuff and you suddenly show tutorials on how I could have done it 10X faster. STOP STALKING ME KENNY!!!
This s such a great idea my only BUT is that this is happening after the fader, I'll look around it to make it work before it too. Thanks so much Kenny.
Anyone watching this by the date of this comment: loudness meter has since been updated; it's now easier & has different output options. If you follow Kenny's tutorial here, and then use the "all (inverted)" setting instead of simply "on" in the plugin's option panel, it will automatically invert the volume output for you, instead of doing that through the automation item properties. Then all you have to do is adjust the amplitude and baseline for the automation item.
Hope this saves you some time. :)
Thanks! defo saved me a bit of time
@@mrslickbeats no problem my bro. Happy to help. :)
Legend
To further save some time from here, once you have it set up, save it as a default preset and it'll load in all set up whenever you load the plugin. And if you have the "Automatically add envelopes when tweaking" setting on, you don't even need to arm any envelopes, just set the automation mode to write, play the track, and it builds your envelope.
@@reaganharder1480 yesss bro good thinking. 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
I sure wish there was an updated tutorial on this. I know some folks here have tried to explain how to set this up with the newer Loudness Meter plugin in the comments below, and thank you for that, but It's not totally clear to me how to get this going. Definitely not the same as having Kenny explain it, which is always incredibly clear, concise and 100% reliable.
This is not gain automation, this is volume automation. Gain occurs pre-fader, volume occurs post-fader.
Slap a VU meter on the channel being automated and toggle the automation on and off, you'll see it makes zero difference to the VU meter because you're automating volume, not gain.
Do everything you're doing the same way, but at 3:18 while you're setting it back to read, also tick the box for "Volume Pre-FX", that will give you a gain envelope that you can drag your automation onto *thumbs up*
This actually saved me money - I wanted to buy a plugin for this purpose the next days; now I don't need it anymore! Thanks, Kenny! Anyways: "ALT on the PC, OPTION on the Mac" should be a shirt (yeah, it's just the nerd in me...) :)
They're coming along with another UA-cam channel
Yeah irk I love how you give both key commands for Mac and pc.
Sonic Anomaly Vola - free!
@@ThalamusGhipopotamus do you think doing it with the sonic anomaly is better than manually ?
@@r0bzmusic777 It all depends on the specific situation. In most cases, a plugin is enough for me.
To all the guys complaining that the same work could also be achieved using a compressor, well, you might be right, but the point is: This video teaches us a lot about envelopes and automation, especially that you can also generate automation curves from invisible internal fx parameters and not only from tweakable sliders and knobs and that it's always worth the effort to look at all the automation parameters offered by the plugins you use.
What they fail to realize is that yes, the same work can be achieved by compressors BUT it's done at the cost of dynamics/distortion, gain automation is done because it is non-destructive and also leads to better results and less destruction / loss of dynamics when you finally do add compression as the compressor is working with more leveled peaks, it also means you are less likely to need serial compression to tame those peaks saving time and focus.
Exactly. I use PowAir for these purposes but I learned a hell of a lot about Reaper in the process of watching this, and I'm sure I'll be able to put it to use for something completely different!
@@RealSiViX the dynamics is what we are trying to reduce here. That's the whole point: to reduce the dynamic range. This is compression. It's a manually, slow compression. Which is really helpful before sending the signal to an effect that is more in line with what we think of as a "real compressor," but let's not split hairs. We are adjusting the output amplitude over time based on changes to the input amplitude in order to decrease the amount of change. That's dynamic compression. It's slow and subtle and manually tweakable, but it is compression.
@@jmjeffries2 - I mean, you say, "let's not split hairs", but yet, here you are, splitting hairs...
My point was more leaning towards the fact that running every track through a compressor for gain automation is prone to introducing distortion whereas proper gain-staging is not.
Plus the fact that compression occurs post-fader whereas proper gain-staging occurs pre-fader (something this video gets VERY wrong as this is volume automation, not gain automation) where a 24-bit file that was recorded too hot can have it's gain reduced to below 0db and have it's dynamics properly restored whereas running that same 24-bit file through a compressor will not remove that distortion and is in fact, likely to make it worse.
Just DON'T gain stage with compressors.
And just a heads-up for anybody reading this thread who would like to know the CORRECT way to gain stage in Reaper:
Do everything the video shows the exact same way, but at 3:18 while you're setting it back to read, also tick the box for "Volume Pre-FX", this will give you a gain envelope that you can drag your automation onto instead of dragging it onto the volume envelope...
Man I can't stress how much I love Reaper. It literally has a solution for everything
it's modularity allows for that
Reason #52 I need to quit dragging my feet and switch over to Reaper. Fantastic job, Kenny, as usual.
Brilliant! Thanks, Kenny! Yet again you've both shown us one of the reasons reaper is so great *and* a creative use of that greatness :)
You the man, no more need for 3rd party plugs this way. I'm deeply grateful for your tuts Kenny, so many things I learn
Kenny, over the years you have literally saved and redirected my life with your wonderful videos. Thank you............... thank you.
If it wasn't for you, Kenny, Reaper would only be as good as Pro Tools and all the other second class DAW's.
@L_ A_ What other DAW's have someone like Kenny Gioia behind them?
@L_ A_ Do you think anyone could hear a quality difference in a blind test between mixes using identical settings in different DAWs?
Awesome 😁👍
@@Bastanien Maybe not but it's a lot easier to use with Kenny's tutorials.
@@TheSpeenort Oh I was replying to L_ A_
GJ, Kenny! Thx, will try to use this method in voice over projects. I think "volume pre-fx envelope" much better then just "volume envelope" with gain rider, because the waveform will visually change. "Volume envelope" will be useful for pre-fader sends to verbs etc.
Greetings, I was looking for how to explain to some students, who are not many, how to do this automation without falling into third-party plugins in a traditional way. Thank you, you have a new subscriber, I will see what I can as long as I have time. Yours videos, thanks for sharing,,
For some reason, my Vocal Rider plugin wasn't writing properly to my vocal track envelope and I was so frustrated I was about to cry. Sure enough, Kenny G has a solution that's totally awesome and totally free. You are a gift, my friend.
Love how I stumbled on this as I was thinking about getting Vocal Rider. You saved me some money! Thanks!
Это отличная, гениальная идея! Спасибо, Кенни
This is fantastic. Reaper never ceases to amaze. Thanks Kenny!
The quick recap at the end was a really nice touch. Thanks so much for doing these videos.
If your envelope baseline is not in the middle like Kenny's, go to Preferences > Editing Behaviour > Envelope Display & change the volume envelope range to -inf..+24dB. Mine was set to -inf...+6dB which made getting the boosts correct pretty tricky. Hope that helps someone!
i swear i saw it today on another video and when i came from home i thought " let me look for how this is done in reaper" and i see you uploaded this video 1 hour ago... u are the best kenny baba!
Incredible! I have been looking for a smooth way to do this for ages! You are my hero, sir!
You are such a fantastic teacher… very few people can actually read the minds of the students and deliver accurately to how can perceive the thoughts… thanks a ton …
There's also a fantastic script by EEL called Envelope based Compressor v2(available in Reapack) that can write the effect of compression directly as volume automation. Highly recommended and very accurate!
By far by far by far the absolute best audio production channel I’ve ever come across. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. 😂😂😂🙏
Thanks once more Kenny. Great song too by the way.
I am really just starting to look under the hood in Reaper after about a year of casual use. The best advice I can give to novices is watch the tutorials BEFORE you run out and buy a plug in. This program has a ton of firepower and Kenny's tutorials on well laid out. Thank you Kenny, and Happy New Year!
A lot of the firepower is hiding in the midst of the vast expanse of customizability, so yep, definitely worth looking up tutorials for how to do a thing before dropping money on a plugin to do that thing.
☑ What can I say. Just what I've always said. You are a genius! Great video again. Very useful. Thank you Kenny. Excellent pop song too. Stay safe.
You gotta love the "I hope you've learned something" in the end of each video. Yes. Yes, sir, I have.
Hi Kenny, I had some trouble opening the Item Properties. Just in case someone stumbled in the same issue: Right click on the automation Item(Volume) then select: "Automation items" and "Insert new automation item". Now you can see the volume label. The rest is on the video. Thanks for the video. Great tutorial as always!!
Been waiting for this one! Thanks Kenny! Nice to see your mug for the first time, also 😆😇
Are you kidding me? what am i gonna do with my Waves Vocal rider now? I just tried this for normalizing all sorts if audio tracks and it's amazing. I even used it on the pre FX trim. That boosted the noise floor but it was easily controllable with some minor adjustments. Then a round of RX cleaned it up completely. It took me 20 mins to mix a 2 min video. That's half than my normal time. Thanks Kenny. I wish I thought of using it this way. Better late than never.
This is so awesome!
I would probably move the envelope to the "Pre-Fader" Volume Envelope for even more flexibility. This way I can control how much the signal is affected by a compressor and leaves the Volume unaffected for general loudness control.
Reaper is such a joy.
Kenny is such a Master.
Thank you!
So many fun ways to use it.
@@REAPERMania Kenny I came to this after watching a vid from 2017 where you actually do use Pre-Fader volume while demoing how to draw the automation curve manually. Is there any reason you chose volume on this demo in particular? I guess because we can see that fader control responding in real time?
Wow! Thanks for the video Kenny! Cute song... I'll be humming this all day...
I cannot begin to tell you how useful this is! Thanks so much Kenny!!!
Straight to the point! I learned so much!
Thanks Kenny :) I was considering buying a vocal rider so this saved me quite a few quid! As always, your tutorials are so educational and easy to follow. Fine work my good man, fine work :)
If we have a hero who make JS Rider for live performance. Just one plug without other strange manipulations. Something like Waves vocal rider but with LUFS metering. It can be unbeatable!
This is frigging cool. Thanks Kenny for again showing us how to use Reaper instead of just buying a plugin. It's awesome to know how this stuff works. Thanks!
You've been knocking it out of the park lately, Kenny! This is invaluable. I'll be trying this on my current project. Even at 25-50%, it should make volume automation a lot less tedious, especially with the bad mic technique singers. This would also work well with lead instruments.
I am really surprised for thisPowerful reaper plugin. Thanks alot!
Wow -- I love learning how to do things I never even knew you could do and ended up thinking about all of the possibilities... excellent video as usual!
Might want to update this video, as I was able to figure it out, but some of the items and menus have changed, like in the loudness meter... when you activate the envelope writing, you can select "All (inverted)" and it writes the envelope already inverted like a vocal rider would function.
I love this video ,just great thanks Kenny
Late to the party, but absolutely brilliant, Kenny! Great stuff as always. 'using Reaper since version 3+ and never knew this was possible. Saves countless hours of 'insert point'.
Can this be an another way to level out vocals pre fader? More like a dynamic processing to level out vocals out befor hitting a compressor?
You can just drag the automation item to the pre fx volume envelope on your track.
Yes and Yes!!!
Nice intro and nice to see you kenny 😀
Thanks for your tutorials ❤️
This is such a neat and flexible way for vocal riding in reaper! Thanks for showing it!
Never a day I don‘t learn something new from you! Thx, Uncle Kenny 😁
Holy shit. Every time I watch one of your vids, I chop another 20 percent off my workaround time! This is a great solution.
This can be done with any meter plugin, Youlean Meter for example? Cuz I couldn't install any of the plug-ins mentioned in this video... Would you gimme a hand here Kenny, cuz it's so cool what you done here...
This spares so much time, thank you!!!!
Wow this is a game changer that can speed up vocal processing workflow dramatically. Great tutorial, Kenny!!
Good thing I only spent $29.00 on the "other " plug-in a few years ago. This is easier to use...gives you a good visual of what's happening. I love it. Reaper just keeps getting better and better.
Variations on a theme. I love it.
You're an absolute maniac. I just write and record stuff at home for me for fun and every time I have a problem or question you've already made a video about it. These tutorials are invaluable to the beginner man.
Holy crap, I don't think I've ever seen your face before! Lol. Thanks for another awesome video! 🤘
Every time I think I've seen the best Kenny video, I come across a better one
Brilliant! Amazing automation. Next level stuff. Just wow.
WOW! This is great! Kenny, you rock! Thank you so much for all this shared knowledge! So glad i switched to Reaper...
Very cool! It's an infinitely tweakable compressor!
Found what to be surprised at? See my comment outside and you will see a way that is many times more effective.
Instead of re-drawing the beginning of the automation item, wouldn't it make more sense to do a start offset by ~100-200ms? LUFS-M is a measurement of the last 400ms of the signal so any time there is silence and then suddenly a loud part there will be this lag in when the riding kicks in. I've found that a start offset of 100ms pretty much always works perfectly!
Thanks Kenny! However, there is too much manipulation. There is a much simpler and more effective way: we are talking about the "envelope based compressor", made by my compatriot.
By adjusting parameters such as Precomp (similar to lookahead) and RMS (in the latest versions), you can quickly and easily achieve what you want. Works with the selected time area. The script is in Reapack. Precomp can reach several tens of milliseconds, and RMS is about 30 + -.
I usually edit it manually, periodically "trying on" this script, until manual editing becomes impractical. Then I use this script in RMS (above) and in peak mode.
The script is in Reapack. You can make a button on the toolbar and rejoice. Sorry if english is bad. Google is to blame.)))
I don't think it's going to work (and sound) in exactly the same way though. You could argue that any compressor with a ''look-ahead'' function would also be a type of a vocal rider but it's not really the same thing. The way compressors work is that you effectively shape the transient part (or the whole envelope) of a signal, so the 2 techniques are applicable for different uses in my opinion.
@@mod3l Sounds not just the same, but better. And the accuracy can be adjusted FASTER at times. It is the RMS parameter in combination with Precomp that gives a smooth curve, as well as the built-in ability to reduce the number of points. Transients and sound microrelief are not affected.
@@ДенисЛогинов-й2э ''Better'' doesn't mean it's really better, it just means it's different, and NO, a compressor (or an envelope compressor) definitely isn't an envelope follower, like the Loudness meter JS is (when spewing out an envelope). If you like the sound of it, that's fine, but they both are different tools for different situations.
@@mod3l Why argue? I, of course, could spend a lot of time here, explaining the essence of Vocal Rider .... work. What's the use of "shaking the air"? Less theory, because without practice, its value is zero.
Just give it a try, taking the parameters I suggested above as input. I am sure that by adjusting the settings, you can easily adjust the accuracy of the inverted envelope repeat.
Here "especially straight" hands do not even need to have.
Compare this to the work of Vocal Rider (waves), rendering its result, and you will understand that the tool I offer is much more flexible in customization. Vocal Rider (waves), like many other plugins, heals in one place and cripples in another.
@@mod3l The above script is of course not an envelope repeater, but it can be easily turned into an inverted envelope repeater. You got likes, apparently, from those who have not yet understood this or have not tried this script from the word "absolutely".
Incredibly useful! Love it. Well done Kenny!
Brillante
Incredible, I'm done buying 3rd party plug-ins, A) I have too many already B) Reaper has everything already, you just need the know how. Great job!
Hello, Kenny. I love your videos now that you are in them.
This REAPER automation feature is a great time saver and more accurate than any method.
Love you Ken..at the coal face since the early days..videos like this; unlocking these tricks in reaper make be feel proud because i want that reassurance that there's so much more under the hood in the software.
This plugin greatly streamlined my workflow. Thanks Kenny for the explanation.
Great to hear!
What a great time and money saver!! Who needs the vocal rider when you have Kenny!
As usual.... Kenny does it again!
I always add your videos to my collection so I can access them whenever I have a question or need some help with a project.
How about a short one using JS Chorus, with lots of voices?
Needed something like that for crowd simulation.
Thanx again Kenny!
Keep them coming!
I also wanted to add that I purchased Reaper because of your tutorials!
Make sure you let them know that!
Amazing trick! Also possible using the parameter modulation option
Awesome tips, Kenny, especially your refinements... another Waves plugin get archived for posterity.
Awesome!
Question: you're using a pre-FX meter and letting it control post-FX volume. Wouldn't it make more sense to use a post-FX meter to control post-FX volume?
Not really. But you can try.
@@REAPERMania I don't quite get the logic then? Because the fader is managing what you hear after the FX, but the automation write is coming before them, ie much higher spikes. You might have to adjust the amplitude less with post/post. Hmm, that might actually be a good reason to go pre -- more range to fiddle with as it seems the amplitude slider only goes up to 100.
@@yikelu You can try to logically use the way that makes the most sense but because you can control the range, you can really do it either way. I like to do it this way because I might change my compressor later. And I don't want to keep changing my envelope to match. You could put this on the pre vol if you prefer. But at the end of the day, the only that matters is that you're happy with the level of your vocal. And I always tweak the envelope anyway.
@@REAPERMania ok thanks for the response Kenny, always curious to hear your perspective, especially when it goes against my initial instinct.
I wouldn't try and overthink things; if it works and sounds good, it is good :)
Thank you for doing this guide and introducing me to Stash and JS FXes.
Kenny you're the MacGuyver of Reaper. Thank you.
HOLY CRAP! I don't remember how I found your channel (recommendation from another random video I was watching) but WOW! Every one of your videos is gold. This one really blew my mind. I'm not much of a sound guy. I do videography asa one man band so I know enough about sound design to get by on small things (noise removal, EQ, removing some reverb ... simple stuff).
This ... this is wild!
KENNY YOU BEAUTIFUL✨❤✨❤thanks🙏🙏🙏🙏
Kenny, that intro slaps. PUN INTENDED. 😁
My main issue with this method is that it boosts all the sibilance, plosives, breaths and silences. By the time you fix all those and other areas which need fixing , you might as well just ride the fader manually by hand. However, I find the fastest method is actually to use dynamic split (or even just manually split for more accuracy), select all the items and normalize them to 0.0db then just bring all the items down to the appropriate level. That way it doesn't boost any of the sibilance etc. You can't hear the splits if you adjust your crossfade settings and make sure you only split in the appropriate places in between words. If there are any long syllables which can't be split or beginnings or endings of words which need boosting, just press V and draw a volume automation just for those parts.
When using this technique, is there any way to prevent the envelope raising to top level on the ending of vocal phrases? I'm getting a very pronounced raise making the vocal come up very loud at each phrase ending, having to manually edit the envelope on the entire song, for each phrase. It seems Kenny had this issue with some breathing on the vocal track, but it wasn't so exaggerated as I'm experiencing. Aside from this issue, i think it's a great way to control a vocal track before sending it to a compressor. Thanks!
Thank you. This is exactly what I needed to know.
Thanks Kenny! this is a brilliant idea!
Thank you Kenny, this was awesome. Great job on the channel.
Kenny ...I've solved it, it was my mistake, I think - the laptop version had the SWS extensions installed which has the 'Enable Marker Actions'. Installed SWS extensions onto desktop version, enabled marker actions and all now works. Obvious really.
Anyway a big thanks to you and your channel, I use it quite often as I'm a semi knowledgable amatuer, and your channel is an excellent source for explanations and how-tos.
Love Reaper ❤,thanks guys for all the content
WOW! WOW! WOW! Thanks Kenny!
Oh my god this is going to save so much time! Thanks Kenny!
How many times have I ridden faders only to go back to tweek points, which takes ages when using a single fader on a Fader Port . Yet again Kenny you have saved me hours. Every day is a school day, Thanks.
It SEEMS like you could get a similar effect with a compressor with look-ahead, slow attack/release, and long RMS period. Some advantages of that is it is easy to change the various parameters (threshold, ratio, times) without editing points and faster to set up. One advantage of this is having individually editable points. Maybe they sound/act significantly different? It's also just a different way of looking at the same problem.
The compressor would have to work in LUFS to get close to the same sound! That's got to exist though
@@ViktorNova RMS is really close to LUFS, especially if dealing with one audio track. The difference should be subtle, if any.
This will be a nice time saver. I won't have to manually create automation lines (Volume Pre-FX) for very dynamic tracks so compressors don't have to do all the work of taming the peaks.
Man it's so cool to see your face, after learning all I know from you now I know there's a friendly face for the awesome voice
Kenny, indisputably you are the Best!
👏👏👏👏
Thank you, Kenny!
Wonderful lessons. Thank you very much. It would be interesting to see how you work on the project from start to finish. I think it was super instructive
Kenny my mind is blown. Immensely helpful, thank you
They have updated the Loudness Meter so you can now Output loudness values inverted so it reduces the steps needed to automate the gain.
Are you hiding in my studio? I swear this week I've been working on exactly this kind of stuff and you suddenly show tutorials on how I could have done it 10X faster. STOP STALKING ME KENNY!!!
This s such a great idea my only BUT is that this is happening after the fader, I'll look around it to make it work before it too. Thanks so much Kenny.
Hello. Maybe you can copy it to volume prefx envelope instead？
Kenny, thank you so much for your work! Always very knowledgeable, to the point and very professional!