Why guitarists USED TO play more in tune! (Microtonal Frets)
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- Опубліковано 27 тра 2024
- Guitars today all have fixed metal frets but not only was this not always the case, in fact, guitars with tied on gut frets (made of sheep intestine) allowed guitarists 300 years ago to play MORE in-tune than guitars can today. Find out why in this video :)
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:45 What we are doing today
1:21 An Introduction to "temperaments"
2:48 The guitar I'm using
3:16 Listening example #1
3:40 Moving the frets
4:12 Listening example #2
4:47 Why is it more in tune?
5:15 Listening example #3
5:35 Why not always tune purely?
6:02 Understanding enharmonic notes
7:55 24 second ad
8:33 Listening example #4
9:32 Adding auxiliary frets (Tastini)
11:16 Listening example #5
12:05 Listening example #6
12:39 Listening example #7
13:14 Why some chords are out of tune
13:52 Modern music in temperaments?
14:19 Outro & further reading
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Great! This is the clearest demonstration of one thing: Wouldn't you dream of a miracle instrument where your fret positions crawl from one position to another to adjust to the mode you playing at the moment? But, in a way, such instruments do exist. Surprised?
This blew my mind. First he plays it in equal tone, and it sounds PERFECT.
Then he plays in the adjusted temperament, and it sounds MORE PERFECT.
He can’t keep getting away with this!!!
Attention: There is a scammer impersonating me in my comment sections. They are impersonating me and telling random commenters that they have won a prize and then scamming them out of money. At least two of my followers have lost money as a result.
This is a problem plaguing many UA-camrs at the moment and I'm doing everything I can to report every single one but they seem to infinitely reappear. So please, report them if you see one and do not fall for the scam.
Warm regards,
Brandon
What is the name of the song at 1:12?
@@markkicksass2448 Chopin Nocturne
@@RayC234 aww yes thank you! Can’t wait to give it a shot.
Oh
My
God
19 years of guitar, and suddenly it all becomes clear
So THAT is why the thirds were never really in tune
Thank you so much!
It's also why it always seems like the G string is the first to go out of tune - the major 3rd between the G and B strings is already pretty sharp, so when the G string goes even slightly flat it's way more noticeable (as the major 3rd goes from slightly wide to downright dissonant); whereas the perfect 4ths between the other strings are really close to just intonation so there's more of a buffer before it becomes unbearable
@@konkey-dong I always wondered this! Thanks so much!
✨ we will never truly be in tune, as our instruments were made on the physical plane
@@id8989 I really don't think these people are being theological
@@id8989 you can play perfectly-in-tune sine waves on a computer if you’re so into purity 🤷♂️
As a turkish guy this microtones sounds so normal to me because since my childhood i heard thousand times old pieces that composed with microtones . But even since i start learning to play guitar this equal temperement system just stucked in my mind and the sounds of the equal system just feels right even when you play chords with koma's . it s like my brain seperated more traditional temperement system and the equal one. it s just amazes me
Turkey 🤝 Mongolia forever!!!!!
Hmm. Im not sure calling it microtones is even appropriate. These are still relatively consonant sounds. The ratios for the intervals are simple ratios. I think its more appropriate to call a piece microtonal when the ratios for the intervals become more complex.
@@rist98 simple ratios are microtonal. The ratios for 12tone equal are irrational so they are actually very complex. Any music which tunes it's notes different from 12 equal is considered microtonal. 7:4 and 7:6 are two simple ratios that deviate significantly from 12 equal and would sound more overtly microtonal than 17:16 and 19:16 which are more complex but sound very close to their 12 equal counterparts. I take it that you mean that if the deviations are to subtle it sounds to normal to be microtonal.
@@killboybands1 So most of classical music is microtonal? Most acapella choral music is microtonal? I dont think they are. They just have a natural tuning, which most singers and most unfretted string instruments automatically gravitate towards. And ofc, historical wind instruments were tempered different from ET. But you dont call all of that microtonal music, even though it technically pretty much is. Microtonal music is where, as the name implies, the intent of the piece is to mess around with the microtones. To essentially define more pitches than 12 tones. These pitches can be based on simple ratios, which when used strictly enough in any way, will produce pitches that deviate well enough from ET. But ofc, the deviation from ET isnt also the factor which decides if its a microtonal piece. Ofc, i might be off the mark on this understanding, but this is how Ive understood the definition of microtonal music.
(There was an elective at my uni, which was called microtonal music. I would have taken that class, had it covered historic temperaments and natural tunings, but it defo didnt. Prolly should have still taken that class. Maybe I will get to that some day.)
@@rist98 Before the adoption of equal temperament yes most microtonalists would consider classical music microtonal. Although noticeable differences vary depending on which temperament is being used but the differences between the sound of different keys on a harpsichord tuned to Meantone or Well temperament Vs equal temperament are cirtainly there. But I understand what you mean by it not sounding microtonal compared to the resources of novel tunings like expanded just intonation , or 22 or 31 tone equal temperament. Historical temperaments were not considered microtonal at the time of their usage because tuning hadn't been standardized in 12tet. A capella choral music is technically microtonal especially if the music is very in tune...though it may or may not be perceived as such probably because our ears naturally accept simple ratio relationships as well as slight deviations from them. So while one might not automatically aesthetically consider it microtonal it is microtonal in varying degrees and is more noticeable if your ears are used to hearing it. I can remember the first time I noticed a shift in intonation during a choir performance when the piano stopped playing. If I hadn't been spending a lot of time recently with Just intonation I wouldn't have noticed it because previously I didn't know JI existed so the only frame of experience I had was 12 tet (and some 24tet) However, even music in 31, 41, 53tet can sound less microtonal than one would expect even with small intervals in the voice leading if the Harmony is based on 5limit triads. Barbershop quartets are definitely microtonal as they use adaptive Just intonation. If you listen to performances of Barbershop champions you'll probably hear how the chords resonate in a way that would be impossible if they sang in 12tet Of course even in 12et there are technically lots of microtonal events like the slight differences in intonation amongst groups of player vibrato, bending, gliss, fx like chorus, flangers...etc (but this is not a different tuning system just expression and ornament) For vocal music that is overtly microtonal check out Toby Twinning, David Hykes, (just intonation) or Kavkasia Trio who sing traditional Georgian vocal music which employs neutral 3rds, 6ths, and 7ths. Music that uses less than 12 steps to the octave is microtonal as well such as gamelan that uses 5 and 7 note tunings (that shift in different registers). The 5 note tuning (selendro is close to 5tet. (Ive messed around will 5tet and it's pretty fun). Or Japanese Gagaku which uses a bewildering array of Just intonation pentatonic scales. Lots of classical and early music is microtonal...much of the music pre Renaissance was tuned to Pythagorean And Meantone is definitely microtonal. If you were to tune an a keyboard to meantone and started playing major and minor triads you'd notice the difference... especially if you start playing 7th chords. On a 1/4 comma Meantone tempered keyboard tuned to C (tuned in cents: C =0 C# =76 D=193.2 Eb=310 E=386 F=503.4 F#=579.5 G =696.6 G#772.6 A=889.7 Bb= 1006.8 B=1082.9. The Dom7 chords on Eb and Bb are very close to pure and there is nothing in 12Et that sounds like them (Technically they're augmented 6th chords). If you go in UA-cam snd look up "Orlando Gibbons - Pavan & Galliard ' Lord of Salisbury' (and it's correctly played in Meantone) compare it to modern 12 et versions of it the difference is quite noticeable. Even the practice of string playing has changed over time. I believe there is an example of Mozart explaining in a letter to one of his friends that he thought about strings as playing in 53 equal temperament. And the 7th harmonic was employed in the work of Handel. Tartini thought that the 7th harmonic should be used as it was more consonant but over time these practices disappeared.
I think the term that is getting more often used for the type of microtonality you may be referring to would be "Xenharmonic" where the system of tuning is used for harmonic and melodic possibilities that not offered or mimicked in standard 12 tet. So for me I'd consider keyboard piece composed in 1/4 comma Meantone as microtonal.
Thank you Brandon, first time I hear a modern guitar playing unequal temperament, and the demonstration is very convincing ; now, as a lutenist, I would like to add that for fine unequal tuning we don't only move the frets, but we actually tune the instrument itself, open strings, according to the temperament that suits to the piece. Guitarists should note that, when they tune string by string by adjusting on the fifth case (perfect fourth intervals)... it results in completely out-of-tune octaves... and when they tune by octaves (harmonic on 12th box), it results in awful thirds and fifths... a nightmare ! People used to say " lutenists spend half of the evening tuning their instrument, and the other half playing false!" 😒 Most of lutenists use the Werckmeister unequal temperament (available on electronic application like ClearTune on mobile phone) and harpsichord also use Barnes-Bach. Now let me add one thing, and sorry to be so long : presented like this people can feel that playing lute or guitar in tune in a concert is really painful - so it is ! But in the 17e and early 18e century, -first : the music was not written like Debussy's with 7 sharps! (apart JS Bach with the "Clavier bien tempéré" for the purpose of demonstrating the issue of temperament), it was about 1, 2 or 3 molls max., or 1 or 2 sharps and -second: in a concert, they did not play like we do today in a "récital" by proposing many different pieces of music in different keys, obliging to re-tune in between. At contrary, the "suites" were invented for this purpose: a series of pieces in the same key (or compatible) keys.
I think I understood every other word (maybe). But it is still very interesting. Especially the "suite" info. THAT I can understand. I am starting to realize why music helps with math and vice versa...
The more that I learn about music, the more I realize of how much I do not know about music; I'm just splashing in the shallow end. Thank you, Brandon for the education!
This is why I love youtube. To have access to such a Talent like Brandon, and to be treated to such an amazing array of artistry. There is no way in my everyday life I would have ever been gifted with something so wonderful!
And here i am cussing and losing it because youtube cant refrain from interrupting at the worst times to shove more ads up my nose for useless stuff. 😆
@@newfreenayshaun6651 this video wouldn't exist without those ads so get over it or get premium
@@NoJobRob I can guarantee now that this video primarily exists because of his Patreon and that he does other things (in addition to sponsorships). UA-cam doesn't like to pay out money from their ads to the person who made the video.
yeah can you imagin youd have be a member of some stuffy oxford Alum Society just to be able to listen to him play. amazing what the internet can do for good.
Curse you brandon, i will forever be aware of how sharp a major third is. I have glanced into heaven but have been cruelly ripped away never to again to hear that truly magical sound
The way that initial D chord SINGS in the right temperament! I’ve never really heard anything outside of equal temperament before that wasn’t strictly experimental, so this was an absolute joy to watch!
* eurobeat starts playing *
@@idriveskyline lolol
As much as this illustrates how tuning systems can effect harmonic choices and how good "in tune" music can sound, it also shows just how brilliant a compromise equal temperament is. Equal temperament works surprisingly well given all the little compromises it has to make.
Without equal temperament, it would not be possible to transpose music in all different keys. Most of the music would be "stuck" in its original key (which is the case of all etno and folk music that use primitive scales and/or awkward temperaments). To do something with it in different keys, often would sound odd or really bad. Music never really arrived to its ideals before wide acceptance of the equal temperament.
I advise people to ignore Zvodimirs statements. They are profoundly innacurate, xenophobic, and misleading.
@@brandonacker Brandon, you are "unclassical", or, simply missing my point here. You enjoy music, enjoy your occupation and income, and you have possibilities in life because of the centuries-long attempt at STANDARDISATION that Classical music enabled. You reap the fruits of it more than I and perhaps many listeners of your channel. Why you have the audience from around the globe? Because of the STANDARDISATION that Classical music enabled.
Classical music was the first ever successful human attempt at some unification, standardisation and balancing of pitches, scales, tunings, notation etc., even before science (mathematics, physics, chemistry, etc.) succeeded with science notations and SI base units.
We can read and play music scores from the 13th, 16th, 19th, 20th and 21st centuries, you take them to a different continent and within a different language, and you still read and can play them! It worked. Hard work paid put. But that you can't do with folk and local music which is not based on standard scales, temperaments and notations.
I don't know why this is hard to understand? I can see you are an American; Americans have a funny everyday life, they take what they like but rejected nearly all attempts at standardisation and acceptance of some SI base units (for length, weight, temperature, etc) which the rest of the world uses. So perhaps it escaped you that even American music educators accepted Classical music notations and other achievements. And this is NOT a xenophobic reply - your replies were childish so far. These are the FACTS which you may ignore, or might have forgotten, but can't historically disprove.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 Part of what you're saying is non-controversial: Music has become more standardized over time in notation and in the West, pitch. I'm fine with that.
Just take out all the times you called music primitive which is anything but! You don't understand world music and how sophisticated temperaments or non-western classical styles are. Please go ahead and learn how to play a tasteful taqsim on the oud and then tell me how primitive and non-ideal it is. I'm responding harshly because your claims are offensive and absurd. You are speaking ignorantly about a subject that I'm passionate about. What type of response do you think that deserves? I won't respond again.
Not really, he shows the meantone temperament, but more "well" temperament tunings are sometimes acceptable in ALL keys, however, C major sounds nicer than F sharp major for example. It's the principle that Bach used in his well tempered clavier.
Well temperements are the midway between the older meantone temperament and the modern equal temperament.
This used to drive me crazy when I was a teen and first learning guitar: I could clearly hear for example that if I tuned so that a D major sounded perfect, the open G in a C major and the A (G 2nd fret) in an A minor would sound off, but people would say it was fine. I was one of those guitarists who'd spend five solid minutes tuning between songs when I was in bands, lol. I always blamed it on the guitars I was playing, but I was relieved when I learned that 12TET is as arbitrary as any other tuning system.
I wouldn’t say 12 tet is arbitrary, if you have a guitar that can only have one tuning, then it’s incredibly pragmatic to be able to play in any key.
@@grayson9124 By arbitrary I meant that it's one of several systems.
Know that every time you say "I love that sound," there are thousands of music lovers watching, who are saying, "I love it too!" Thanks for the terrific video.
As a former piano tuner I'd say this video is very satisfying.
It would be cool to see you talk to Tolgahan Cogulu on this topic. If you haven’t heard of him before, he looked at all different sorts of microtonal guitars and then designed his own more versatile one with separate “fretlets” for each string which can be moved anywhere on the guitar and are also removable, so you can have any number of frets per octave (within reason). He’s inspired me think more about what frets are for. When he’s been challenged on whether it’s necessary to go to such lengths in order to play Turkish and Persian traditional music on the guitar, rather than play fretless like on the oud, he has responded that fretless guitar just doesn’t have the tone of fretted guitar. That and, of course, how much frets help with chords and polyphonic playing.
I've spoken with Tolgahan online! He's brilliant. I might getting a guitar from him soon ;)
All types of folk and primitive (etno) and tribal music consist of awkward tunings and endless "microtonal" scales because there never existed standardisation in any shape or form. As such, the music would always remain obscure trade of some local craftsmen, and would never develop into a universal language. Such music is tribal. And that is exactly what Classical music and musicians choose to leave behind in the Middle Ages, by taking a DIFFERENT route: Classical music strived towards (1) simplification, (2) standardisation of scales, (3) ease of music education, (4) more universal tuning and notation, all of which make music accessible and playable to many.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 I couldn't disagree more with your tone and sentiment. Who says one globalized scale and tuning system is a good thing? Would you prefer only one global style or music? Only one global genre of books? That seems absurd. Variety is the spice of life.
Then you act as if microtonal music is trivial and primitive when it's actually incredibly sophisticated and beautiful. Ever heard a virtuoso oud or qanun player? Have you ever heard Monteverdi's Orfeo which is intended for 1/4 comma meantone? You think that is tribal and inferior? Beyond absurd.
@@brandonacker You don't like my temperament :-o) The goals that Classical music had, do not include "playing in tune". Some goals are more important than that, which you do not see for some reason, but enjoy the benefits of. What you and many find fascinating in folk (tribal, etno or primitive) music today, is because Classical music consciously chose to leave that behind, during the Middle Ages. Classical music began accepting different goals: ease of music education, standardisation of scales, notation, theory, development of great repertoire, ease of transposing, acceptance of more universal temperaments and tunings, etc. All of it was possible because of the collective striving of the entire Classical music genre and education. The music would never become a global language like it is today if it was stuck in folk scales and awkward temperaments. There would be no rapid music development: no classical guitar, no electric guitar, no modern piano, no symphonic orchestras - nothing. But because you enjoy the fruits of all these, you may distract yourself from time to time with local tastes and folk music tunings.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 I'm sincerely trying to see your point here but so much of what you say is factually incorrect and off-putting...
First you describe "classical music" as if it were the same group of people with the same agenda for the last 600 years. The Renaissance ideals and aesthetic was not the same as the Baroque, which was not the same as the Galant, which was not the same as Classical or Romantic, or Modern. You clearly haven't read musical treatises from the different time periods and lack an understanding of musical history.
Furthermore, playing in tune and with temperaments was of the utmost importance in the Renaissance and Baroque period. Equal (or something close to it) became more and more convenient as composers wanted to explore more elaborate keys and modulations. They still wanted to play in tune! That is an unjustifiable and egregious statement.
And lastly, you overgeneralize and seem to look down on anything that isn't Western classical music as if it were primitive in a way that comes off as frankly xenophobic and ignorant. Perhaps you should actually study the topic at hand before dismissing most of the world's music...
P.S. Yes, I'll happily continue "distracting" myself with the "primitive" opera Orfeo which is a work of pure genius and has nothing to do with "standardization," and equal temperament.
As a pianist, this has blown my ever loving mind. Incredible video!!!
I stumbled upon the concept of temperaments more than 60 years ago, at the age of 10, when my mom bought me an autoharp and an A tuning fork. After tuning the A strings, by ear I tuned the A major chords to sound "perfect" to my ears. I then went up a major third (to C#) and tuned that chord to sound perfect. Then moved up the major third in the C# chord and tuned to perfection again. I continued the process. I figured eventually I would get all of the strings tuned perfectly. Much to my surprise, when I was done with this process, I played the A major chord again, and it sounded awful! I couldn't figure out what I could possibly have done wrong. It wasn't until I got to college and learned formally about temperaments that I finally knew what had happened…
When singing A Capella we can make adjustments as we go to purify the 3rds and 5ths, etc. When the key changes then it is easy to make adjustments because there are no restrictions as in equal temperament.
Exactly!
I recall seeing a harpsichord with split "black" keys (they're reversed in color but you get the idea), allowing them to play both sharps and flats. I wish more pianos were made like that
I second your recommendation of Ross Duffin's book! He does a great job of explaining the math, theory, and history of temperaments and how they affect music. That book turned me into a serious temperament geek!
Years ago, I played an acoustic fretless bass guitar for the first time and fell in love. I had the guy who built it build one for me and I am still in love. I still play fretted basses but find the frets get in the way. I thought it was just getting in the way of smooth expression; vibrato etc, without the clunkiness of frets. Now, I realize that temperament is also a factor.
I guess that if we were meant to play in equal temperament all the time, violins would have frets too. 🙂
In 1/4 comma meantone it somehow instantly starts to sound medieval to me, if it makes sense. And I love it.
The best thing I have ever gotten from watching Rob Scallon for laughs is an introduction to your channel. So good!
By the Guitar Gods! I've been playing guitar for 36 years, and this is the first time I hear of this! And man does it sound good. Even to the ears of this old metal head.
Very informative. Not a classical person (though I love Bach), but I now realize why the G string often seems too sharp. I've learned to use tuners as a starting point in certain keys. In E I almost always end up tune G down a hair, and maybe B and high E up a hair. Seems to work best in E and A. Now I understand a bit better why this is, and why tuners aren't perfect.
It's not that tuners aren't perfect. Tuners *are* perfect. But the tuning they tune to isn't
@@dmytrotsvyntarnyi799 I guess it depends on one's definition of perfect. What I meant was that one can at times achieve a "more pleasing to the ear" way of tuning that doesn't agree with the tuner. I play electric guitars mostly, though I learned on acoustics (steel string), and tuning can be a real adventure on some models. The Telecaster in particular, in its classic form, is basically impossible to intonate, so one finds ways to compensate for that. But yes, of course tuners are perfect mathematically and all.
@@claudecat @Dmytro Tsvyntarnyi It's more complicated than that. Due to physical strings not behaving like pure mathematical line segments, a guitar you attempt to tune to 12TET with a perfect tuner, is not exactly tuned that way. Due to string stretch, among other things, various frets on various strings are going to be off by varying amounts even if you've gotten the open strings tuned exactly (especially if you don't have a zero fret). The G being the thickest unwound string is often the most problematic and this may explain your problem with it more than the compromises inherent to 12TET.
i tune by ear, and end up doing this, and always get drawn to playing in those specific keys and their relative modes. and whenever i play in a different key, i have to retune my guitar for a while to get it exactly how i like it.
Very nicely explained! (As a violist da gamba I deal with this stuff all the time.) I've always felt that the way to introduce the subject of temperaments is to speak, as you have done, in terms of ideas that musicians already understand (rather than plunging into a lot of numbers and calculations) -- larger and smaller intervals, bending or adjusting notes, etc. -- and of course also demonstrating the sound of everything that one is talking about.
Congratulations on a very well-done presentation. I shall be recommending it to viol students and other non-guitarists.
I feel like we could be friends and I could learn more than plenty from you. A sophisticated, elegant and clearly highly intelligent being. All the love, all the power.
You should interview some violinists. We have to worry about this constantly playing Bach, and string quartets playing the entire repertoire.
I remember when I started playing guitar and was in high school, before ever hearing about equal spacing, I struggled to get my guitars to feel in tune by ear. I couldn't figure it out, if I tuned it so that one open major chord sounded correct, then others would sound wrong. I thought my ears were broken and that I'd just have to tune with a tuner. When I learned years later that the tunings for guitar are all EQUALLY off, that was a lightbulb moment. I learned to tune to the "correct and equally wrong" sound by ear. And I felt much better about my pitch recognition.
It's why the best way to tune a guitar is through octave checks and harmonic checks, since the temperament is resolved again on every octave up the fretboard!
Cool video, I loved the demonstrations. It really does sound sweeter in tune.
That explains it really well and with great playing to hear it.
It'd be hard to go back to playing a piece with equal temperment after doing it like this.
Amazing video.
I think this is why some of my favourite harmony comes from acapella, where the temperament can be adjusted for each chord really.
It's also how I learned to harmonise.
30 years of playing and im learning profound things here, thx! Very interesting, and answers lots of life long questions that before now i didnt realize i was missing due to laziness and lack of understanding!
As a youth I attempted to learn the lute to accompany myself singing (bad mistake, far too many thumbs), but I really loved playing from facsimile of original tablature. In consequence I used to fiddle with my frets a lot to get the tuning 'just right' each time I spent a few days on practicing a piece. Every now and again I'd change to a different piece, and yup, I'd re-discover why you can't just change key on a gut fretted instrument you've set to be 'just right' in a single key.
There's a company called true temperament that used that idea of microtonal necks to make guitar necks that are more "in tune" the fret wires a bended exactly to the note so the instrument is in tune in all sections of the neck, i recommend you look it up it might be an addition to the video 👍 thanks
Thanks! Yes, I'm aware of them and am happy guitarists are discovering temperaments other than equal!
I much prefer moveable frets like on my early instruments. That way you can tune in many different temperaments on the same instrument. I've even changed temperament in the middle of a concert to better suit the next pieces. I wouldn't want to be stuck in just one temperament with fixed frets personally.
That's a little different. Their goal is still equal temperament, but to compensate for the irregularities caused by the mechanics of how strings and frets work
@@wbajzek It's definitely not equal temperament. Just like in any non-equal temperament, in true temperament you have to offset the tunings of the open strings. So some have to be higher and some lower than equal. If the open strings are not in equal, thats that. You can see them explain the offsets and that the open strings are not in equal here www.truetemperament.com/how-to-tune/
Honestly, from what I've watched it seems that many of the people talking about it don't understand how temperaments work so that is probably where the confusion comes from.
@@brandonacker hmm, ok. thanks for the info. I was basing my comment around my memory of a podcast I heard with Kenny Hill discussing it, but I may have misremembered or maybe he misspoke. I don't really understand how it could work, though, without creating some of those crunchy chords like that Eb you demonstrated in your video.
I personally think it's a cool idea and I love experimenting with microtones and listening to music in historic temperaments and just intonation, but I am also fine with some of the wonkiness built into a modern guitar.
@@brandonacker to have an unequal temperament one needs to have a home key, which isn't normally the point of a guitar.
As a piano tuner who has tuned equal temperament hundreds of times, and played instruments in 12TET my entire life, I cannot focus on music that uses western tuning systems that aren't 12TET. It often spins my brain out completely, especially when harmony is involved. That said, temperaments, both historical and current, are an incredibly fascinating subject and I love some of the newer ones like equal temperaments that aren't 12 tone.
Fascinating! I have played sitar since 1970. Sitar uses tie-on frets; silk, button string, gut, fishing line. The frets are quite curved to facilitate deflecting the string sideways. Each fret can accommodate a perfect 5th of bend. The bends must be absolutely in tune. Indian classical music tends toward "just intonation" that is; the notes played against a drone should not create any acoustical "beats"
The phrasing on that Sor C Major Study!
That's a piece I'd attempted a while back and given up on... This makes me want to take it up again!
Thanks, Brandon... Congrats on a brilliant channel!
Your vast knowledge and ability to play is a gift. And while I am dealing out compliments you have fingers of a Spider... I wish I could play half as good as you...
Good video. This explains partly why violins, violas, cellos, basses have no frets. And, explains why a violin is so difficult to play in tune; finger position for each note must be altered during play. Very long ago, I met a luthier who made guitars for various keys: the frets were placed as this video suggest, but also the acoustics were altered per key. For sound, the idea worked: no dissonance created a greatly improved tone overall. But the idea never caught on.
This video explains so much, and means I am not losing my mind, or my hearing. I've been telling my friends that my guitar was "off" slightly when the tuners say otherwise. This explains it. Wow. Mind expanded.
Wonderfully done! I cannot wait to have you back again!
Thanks, Marshall! I'm so glad we got to conduct these fun experiments together!
So glad I stumbled upon this! Explains my frustrations when playing and it doesn't sound "right" so I tune, then the next song doesn't sound "right".
Your explanation and demonstration of the subtleties of equal temperament tuning was the best I've ever heard, and the sound of the guitar when specifically tuned to the key you played the piece in was absolutely brilliant! Thank you, Brandon for explaining this so intuitively!
This connected some dots for me that my now deceased voice teacher tried to explain to me years ago when playing with transposing vocal pieces. Pieces just don't transpose well across certain keys on the piano. And some are much brighter and bolder than others - likely, because of the equal tuning tradeoffs. And that issue very likely informed the design of all musical instruments.
But, some of these temperament characteristics seem to transcend even key-limited instrument tuning. The key of E-flat major has special properties that the great composers understood and came to be called the "heroic key." Opera music is written in certain keys that convey particular temperament characteristics of the voice, not just the orchestra.
But, tuning alone doesn't explain it. The human voice is capable of any theoretical tuning because of its design. But, when singing most music in a major key, it sounds most brilliant and beautiful and powerful in E-flat major. And that goes for pop and rock as well as classical music.
this is actually how the mariachi vihuela is fretted it’s super cool to see it on a modern classical guitar!
im in love with this sound and your playing i cant, just cant.
This is fascinating. I assume this is why certain chords just sound awesome on the guitar and others less so.
It is a really big part of it, but it isn’t the only reason. The standard temperament of a guitar is a compromise so that the instrument will be as close to equal as possible with frets that are straight. It makes it easier to build and to play, but the intonation is slightly off of equal.
The rest of this comment might be a little weird. It’s just a visualization of how luthiers help to minimize this effect.
One of the best ways to visualize the compromise that’s made is to look at the bridge of a steel string. It’s a lot more dramatic than a classical, but the same principles apply to classical, just to a lesser extent. If we look at the placement of the saddle, it is slanted to make the bass strings longer. This helps those strings to be more in tune because their thicker gauge and decreased flexibility results in a larger node at the saddle, which makes the note sharper. Then, if we look at the g string,there is a little spot that is filed farther back in there but than the rest of the strings. That’s because the g string tends to be pretty sharp.
When I set up classical guitars, sometimes I shift the break point of the g back a millimeter or so to help it play more in tune. Not every guitar needs it. And classical guitar strings are much closer in gauge than steel strings, so you usually don’t need to intonate the saddle beyond that, if that’s even necessary. You just get it to where it’s as good as you can get it, and understand that perfection isn’t actually possible.
I've seen arabic keyboards in the music shop previously, where they can set the black keys to either the sharp or flat and also raise the minor 3rd to get that in between minor and major 3rd.
this is awesome. it's nice to see a well in-depth video on this subject. the harmony between all notes is much better
So informative. I can't play guitar, but as a musician these videos have opened my ears to some information I didn't possess before. Great work
Clear, detailed,exhaustive, in one word, great!
Wonderfully educational. Love it! The 1/4 comma meantone sounds beautiful.
So glad you picked Recuerdos de Alhambra for the demonstration, such a beautiful piece
I love how you’re playing chopin on guitar, like nocturne in E-flat major and the raindrop prelude. It sounds almost as if it were made for guitar instead of piano
Just discovered your channel -- your vids are fascinating, love the historical context, although most of the theory goes over my head. Thanks!
Thank you and welcome 🙏
that was way too fun. i wanna play a guitar with non equal temperament frets now.
As a professional musician I had learned about equal temperament but never really understood it. I doesn't do anything for my playing but its still cool to know.
Great video! I'm learning to play the cobza (short-necked relative of the oud), which is fretless, and while I am using a tuner to make sure I get the right notes, I keep finding that my ear accidentally makes me get my flats a bit higher and my sharps a bit lower, though it still sounds good to my ear. Now it makes sense, especially considering the music I'm playing is influenced also by middle eastern styles, not just western European ones.
nice! and yeah that makes sense, different culture groups have varying takes on how music works and functions
still its really cool to see them each, so I hope your music endeavors go well 😊
Until you brought out the taped alternative fret I was thinking the player would just have to stay away from certain chords but how cool is that👏
Reminds me of that explanation of why John Frusciante actually played Scar Tissue with the B string tuned down.
The difference is actually relief to my ears!
Really grateful for the inspiration! Looking out what to learn next and the studies gave me something to look forward to! Thanks!
Temperaments. Just incredible.
Your explanation that notes like d sharp and e flat are not the same has blown my mind
This is so interesting. As usual you explain and demonstrate so well. Thank you for your beautiful playing also.
D major has always bothered me just a little bit and i could never articulate quite why, it's such a relief to have a new understanding of this
yes, it's mind-opening when you first discover as a guitarist why it is that tuning your strings exactly to pitch with a snark still leaves you with some chords that have a g or b that sound slightly out. I realize when tuning with the gizmo, the g I wind up tuning to is a g I would never have arrived at if I were doing things by ear.
those pics @0:37 are really cool... that smirk from the renaissance rock star and that first position stretch by the young lady
This is mind blowing.
Actually mind blowing
I have been writing a small piece where one specifc note always is just a bit off. Only in that song.
So i tuned that string a half step down and its beautiful. I now understand more of why this is happening. And will add a tastini in place on that spot instead. Thank you so much!!
Different temperaments aren't just from Baroque, Renaissance, & Medieval music. A lot of rock guitarists from, at least, the '60s to the '80s used different tuning temperaments throughout the years; granted they weren't able to move their frets, they would tune by ear (like your one tip video says to do), & the term tuning offset came from somewhere for that. There's a super-informative guide a guy made of the different tuning offsets Eddie Van Halen used that includes a lot of his recordings.
One semi-recent issue of Guitar World with EVH on the cover did a *deep* dive of his touring rig & he revealed the specific tuning offset he used live for most songs on the tours from '07-'15. I'm not an expert on temperaments or offsets, but's as a musician & audio engineer, I am hugely fascinated in all that stuff. Great playing, by the way!
I could listen all day - thanks Brandon
This is so cool. I have always tuned my B string a touch lower when using a D major chord, which goes with the idea in the first example.
Thank You!! Thanks a lot for your beautiful playing and content.
Thank you for this great video! Never heard about moving frets or auxiliary frets. Super cool stuff.
Excellent video, you're a terrific guitarist and an intelligent teacher of things. Blessings to you and yours!
I can see why guitars are how they are today, especially for live play, but man a guitar like this would be killer for the studio!
As a precision engineer, I was taught the harmony of precise mechanical tuning,... My classical guitar is a good "average",.. built by a major manufacturer, but slightly frustrating because even when it was tuned correctly, it just didn't sound absolutely "right".. Now I understand why. Thank you Brandon.
That was illuminating and lovely.
wonderful explanation, thank you for creating and sharing this video!
I’ve been studying music for 8 years now and I’m always learning more and more with your videos. Never knew about this stuff. I play classical saxophone. Very odd I know😂
Funny enough, the saxophone was invented to be a classical instrument, but the snobs of the orchestral world rejected novelty because of "tradition". Since gold is gold wherever it goes, saxophone paved its own path to prove itself as the best wind instrument.
@@kenneth6102 couldn’t agree more. Anyone can recognize the sound no matter what.
I mess around with electronic music as a hobby & as part of that I often use 31-tone equal temperament. It has a major third that has a near-just intonation, so it can be seen as a reduction of quarter comma meantone. But in contrast to how you used it here, it automatically has that third available for all chord roots. On top of that, it has also has a near-just 7/4 harmonic seventh, and also the intervals 11/8 and 13/8 are distinct from the nearest 12-tone equivalent. So it gives you a bunch of additional toys for free.
I know putting 31 frets per octave on a guiter/lute is asking a bit much, but I'm just writing this here as a potential source of exploration, if you want that.
I believe some of Tolgahan Cogulu's fret arrangements are subsets of 31-ET, omitting ones not required for whatever is being played to eliminate them as possible clams.
What would I need to Google to find your music?
This video was so wonderful! I actually got into an argument with someone a few months ago who didn't believe there was such a thing as microtonal music at all! lol I played examples of Gagaku, Sufi music.. none of them were convincing.. finally Javanese Gamelan did the trick lol go figure. I heard an interview with Jonny Greenwood recently in which he mentioned that flats and sharps are not interchangeable in orchestral music which was the first time I'd heard that. So to see you describing and demonstrating in detail how western classical guitar music was at one time microtonal was just so wonderful. Thank you. I almost wanted to ask, did you intentionally play Blackbird differently from how it was composed or was that unintentional? The bass notes aren't parallel to the treble notes in the original composition. I was surprised to see that.
4:20 I love Fernando Sor!!
Great video.This is a revelation! It totally explains why why my guitar varies in tone. Depending on weather and humidity. I live in southern UK and even with digital tuning my guitar sometimes sounds terrible. Might be my playing, haha.
Brilliant, fascinating video! I actually found the first few examples of 1/4 Comma Meantone sounded flat but I think it’s because I’m so used to the Equal Temperament. Once I got used to it I could begin to appreciate the difference and Lagrima sounded beautiful… until that F# at the end! 🤢 Oh and the Tastini thing is soooo good. Thank you for another brilliant and beautiful video.
This has finally answered the question to why I don't like some pieces of music as written. To think of it a bit differently, a good screwdriver may get the job done 'ok', but a whole collection of slightly dissimilar screwdrivers will provide the perfect tool in varying conditions. Imagine having a different guitar for each different key! That would be wild.
Excelent video.. congrats!
It's interesting how, to my ears at least, Blackbird somehow sounds off in 1/4 comme meantone. I think I'm just so used to hearing it with the almost imperceptible dissonance inherent to equal temperament that it feels like a fundamental aspect of the song that's missing in 1/4 comma meantone, whereas with the older pieces I much preferred it to equal temperament. Crazy how that works
Great video Brandon! You always give me inspiration to pick up my guitar and get some practice in (even if I can only dream of being as good as you)!
The first moment you started playing in that old temperment, I was smiling ear to ear, I had never heard a guitar sound so 'in-tune' in my entire life!!!
This was one of your best videos to date, imho 😄
great stuff man, thx for sharing your knowledge
I hope to see a video about Luigi Legnani, truly underrated
Thank you for this amazing free content!
Yeah it was my turning point when i switch to fretless bass and have to understand sharp and flat and differences on tune... For me microtones are so clearly distinct on temper but when i find out equal temprement that was huge leap for me . That was a great video and easy thumbs up ;)
Ah man this was such an awesome video man I gotta look for a guitar like that now this just sounds so good! Learned a ton of stuff too thank you!
Great video! I've found that thin cable ties work quite well for adding extra frets. I did a similar thing with a homemade fretless bass
and I thought I saw everything, and now some songs sound different, wonderful video thanks!
Fantastic video. Thank you!
The increased resonance and richness of the notes in 1/4 mean is notable.
Hi Brandon. I see (and hear!) you've got back to nail playing. At least you tried 🙂
Hey, Rob!
Yes but I've been doing the Aguado/Piccinini approach with no nail on the thumb and short nails on the fingers. I find its the best setup for continuo theorbo since the theorbo needs some brightening in an ensemble.
I'll likely go back to no nail/gut string playing as soon as concerts will allow. I learned so much from playing without nails for 6 months and started creating an enjoyable sound toward the end but it needs more work. So stay tuned!
Cheers,
Brandon
Like so much your interpretation with different kind of guitars