Hi, from memory, I think that the Daisy company produced over 20,000 of these rifles but ceased production when it was pointed out by the government agency that the company did not have a licence to manufacture firearms! Cheers mate. Harera
This second video makes me wish that gun makers would offer rifles like this once more. The concept is worth looking into since ammo would probably turn out to be cheaper. Great video SIR!! WELL DONE!!
I believe once the ATF determined this was a firearm in the late ‘60’s Daisy stopped making them I do think they later did make some regular .22 LR rifles I’ve read the problem the military had with case less ammo was with the guns over heating. Apparently ejecting the spent hot brass help with cooling
I had the pleasure of borrowing one of these from a coworker a few years back. What a cool little popper it was. He even let me keep a full tube of rounds. His grandfather had cases of them. 🙂 Protect your eyes dummy. 😉
Cool rifle. Same concept as “dieseling” an air rifle where you put some combustible oil behind the pellet and let the pressure ignite it for a decent gain in velocity
I use to have one of these back in the early 70's when i was a teenager, i have no idea what happened to it, .... what i do remember was shooting a pheasant while in flight with it.
I hope your trembling doesn't get any worse so you can enjoy your collection as it is meant to be for as long as possible - and (weirdly i guess) beyond! From Quebec with love! Thanks!!
A fascinating piece of history, one that I hadn’t come across on the commercial market! Thank you, as always, for the excellent and informative video - you’re one of the most knowledgeable and charming people in the firearms community! Many thanks from the UK P.s. The video quality looks wonderful, have you got a new camera?
I remember early in my 22 collecting days seeing one of these in a rack of used 22s. Passed on it because there was no longer ammo available, at least at a price I could afford.
Fascinating. Doesn’t matter what it looks like, the second I heard Daisy, I automatically thought pellet gun. Did you ever try jamming a 22 pellet into it to see if it works?
Good, informative video USOG! I recall seeing those advertised and tested by a staff writer in "American Rifleman" magazine many years ago. I thought it was a silly idea, {due to the "caseless ammo"}. Looks like it might be a good gun on the back porch to "keep the fox out of the hen house". Glad to hear that it is accurate. I don't think that I have ever seen the ammo for those anywhere ---( I was not looking for it ,,,, but I was not looking for 8mm Nambu pistol ammo either but have seen that at a Gun show --- 🙃 😉 ). As a former Infantryman I can very much understand why caseless ammo was never adopted by the military: It would get wet and be worthless. We operated in rain, snow, mud, wind, ice, extreme heat, humidity. Military ammo from the factory has a liquid sealer applied at the primer end of the cartridge and at the mouth where the bullet sits to keep the powder dry. That caseless ammo would be a soggy mess.
I don't think that would be an issue. The same polymer or whatever that seals conventional ammo could probably seal the powder. I don't think that would stop pressure induced ignition. It might be too fragile, though.
Great explanation! I vaguely remember these, never had one in my hands, that I recall. So many questions! I wonder about consistency, give the variable in ambient conditions. Temp, barometric pressure, altitude, humidity. I'm probably thinking too much!
Good thoughts; but the pressures and temperature of the gas jet are on a different scale. I have 2 and both have always worked perfectly. Maybe I'm lucky!
That's about right. Maybe you've seen one of those experimental engines that runs on solid fuel - this rifle is something like that. The key is the high temperature from compressed air - but I think you get that. Cheers.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Yep, but daisy put a one way ball bearing "baffle" in so that compressed gasses from the piston move it forward and go round it to ignite the charge upon which the ball baring would then be forced backward to seal off the air chamber protect the piston head. Neat system.
Yes - I've seen a couple of prototypes years ago. Keeping the action gas tight was the main problem. The gas ignition worked well. One was a .44 cal - the other I can't remember. The powder wasn't as compressed as for the Daisy yet it still worked.
The gunpowder is compressed and fairly durable but a magazine or feed mechanism would likely result in damage and distortion to the powder - and jams. This is one of the problems with caseless ammo. Good thought though.
As a kid i remember spraying penetrating oil down the barrel of my pellet rifle because it was supposed to improve performance. Idk if it actually did but made a cool smoke show.
Daisy got in trouble with these because they didn't realize that it would be legally classified as a firearm. technically since these do function by dieseling a spring air rifle you can shoot .22 pellets out of them like an air rifle, but it's not going to be very powerful. eventually they offered a couple of inexpensive .22lr rifles in the 80's but I don't know if they got an FFL or contracted production out to somebody else.
AAI & General Dynamics have perfected military caseless ammo and offer a family of weapons for them. The Army seems to have changed the rules and wants significantly more power than their 5.56 & 7.62 analog ammo.
I also vaguely remember many years ago, somebody (Blaser?) marketing a bolt rifle firing conventional ammo, but with an electronically actuated trigger. Near zero lock time and movement, was supposed to enhance accuracy, as i recall.
I'll have to look that one up. I do remember firing the Voere VEC91 Caseless with Electronic Ignition - amazing and worked perfectly...yet not popular.
Remington Etrex I believe was an electronic primer also. I think if this would have been refined it would have set the benchrest world on fire. The system definitely works as I was on a 20MM Vulcan in the Army and they were electronically primed.
New to me for sure. And yes, funny it hasn't caught on or been developed further. Basically how some field artillery works. I recall during my time in the military being behind a line of M109 self-propelled howitzers. The shells (projectiles) are loaded into the breech first, then a sectioned powder bag behind it. Not sure how it was primed exactly, I think the primer was in the mechanism that seals the breech. Sections of powder could be removed to vary the range of the projectile. The removed powder bag sections were not re-used but discarded & burned.
So interesting. I think someone wrote me that they do have a primer - maybe electic somehow. Maybe someone could write us. I checked Wiki etc... and they don't say.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns I did a quick search & confirmed that a single use primer is used to ignite the powder charge. If you search for reloading videos on the M109 there are some good clips of the entire process. And yes, it's fired by pulling a string (lanyard) haha.
Aw that’s really nice would love one over here in Scotland over my 22 pneumatic air rifle I wonder if those round would fire in a .22 air rifle with the compressed air behind the round ???
Greetings to you in Scotland. Good idea; the pressure and "gas jet" isn't sufficient to ignite the powder in a regular air rifle. Interesting idea though and theoretically could be a modification.
An interesting rifle and demonstration. Makes me wonder if the caseless ammunition could be used in a break barrel 22 pellet gun (Spring or pneumatic). Would depend on the ignition temperature I suppose.
Very cool, thanks for teaching me something new today. I think it looks like a GP rifle more than air rifle, the name Daisy and the feel of the polymer is probably why it seemed more air rifle to some folks. Underestimating the FPS is paying homage to Germany fore runners, my BMW hp rating are conservative as well haha. I really enjoy your knowledge, personality and content. What state are you in in the USA?
Hello - Good thoughts - to many it is not easy to picture as a gunpowder burning rifle. I'm in British Columbia and appreciate your kind words. All the best to you.
When i was a teenager who was into guns but couldn't get real ones, i was really into airguns. I heard of these and really wanted one, but realized that it was actually a firearm... An air actuated firearm... And couldnt get one.
Here is a quote from the web that is pretty good: Temperature is proportional to the average kinetic energy of molecules and pressure is the force applied to the molecules. If you add more pressure, the molecules will move faster or collide with each other and this will result in increase in temperature.
I'm new to your channel. In one of you older videos on rust, you said you had some health issue. As an avid surfer of the net I have found out that: Humans are obligate carnivores. We must have meat, fish, eggs, or dairy. We don't need to consume plants and are much happier and healthier when we don't. That's 80% fat calories (no vegetable oil), 20% protein/meat, and 0% carbs/plants. Sure, any carnivorous animal can eat some cereal, but they don't need it, and it is not good for them. The new so-called vegetable oils are poison. Wheat and sugar are bad news. And processed food...well...that goes without saying.
I am trying to get some of my chemist friends to invent 3d printable smokeless powder. It is certainly NOT out of the question. It just takes some experimentation.
Hi, from memory, I think that the Daisy company produced over 20,000 of these rifles but ceased production when it was pointed out by the government agency that the company did not have a licence to manufacture firearms! Cheers mate. Harera
This second video makes me wish that gun makers would offer rifles like this once more. The concept is worth looking into since ammo would probably turn out to be cheaper. Great video SIR!! WELL DONE!!
a sh*** ton cheaper for anyone with basic education and time, i'm sure too!
As someone who shoots PCP rifles daily, I really enjoyed this video.
Whoa! You found something I have never heard of!
That is very interesting.
Thanks for showing this rifle.
Best Wishes from Montana!
Never heard of this. That’s cool!
Brings back a rush of good memories, my dad got me this as my first rifle. Super quality and gun. I wish I still had it.
I've heard of them but thank you for this video I've heard of them and now I've seen it
Yet another great little documentary...
USOG, first time for me ! Never heard or saw a rifle such as this one. Thank you for the demonstration.👍✌🏻😎🇺🇸🙏🏽
Thank you for your note. Cheers
I believe once the ATF determined this was a firearm in the late ‘60’s Daisy stopped making them
I do think they later did make some regular .22 LR rifles
I’ve read the problem the military had with case less ammo was with the guns over heating. Apparently ejecting the spent hot brass help with cooling
That makes sense, each case is its own little heat sink. I wonder, in sustained rapid fire, if cooking off would be an issue?
That's part of why they never used the G11. I also assume that caseless ammo isn't nearly as durable and could get wet.
Very cool and interesting rifle. Thanks for sharing it with us.
JT
Kentucky
I had the pleasure of borrowing one of these from a coworker a few years back. What a cool little popper it was. He even let me keep a full tube of rounds. His grandfather had cases of them. 🙂
Protect your eyes dummy. 😉
Very cool rifle and a very interesting concept. I would say it would still be viable platform today. As usual a fantastic video for us gun geeks :).
I did not even know this existed
Once again you bring some neat content. Your collection is unbelievable.
I’ve got one of those. Shoots pretty well
Very cool I always learn something new from your channel thanks buddy
This was a good one. Thank you for posting.
Interesting indeed.
So interesting!
I've had one for years. Bought one new when I was 12 years old. They had just came out.
You're one of the very few
Cool rifle. Same concept as “dieseling” an air rifle where you put some combustible oil behind the pellet and let the pressure ignite it for a decent gain in velocity
Vaseline! A little dab'll do ya! Hmmm...mixed marketing there.
@@c.j.rogers2422Brylcreem! My dad’s version of a little dab was about an inch long. 60+ years later I still have a very greasy scalp!
@@c.j.rogers2422 remoil worked for me. Got my pellet rifle from subsonic to supersonic. Just shot a few though.
very cool thx
Absolutely loved how you produced this video! Plus I'm an airgunner first, so... yeah.
I had one sold it, I regret selling it!
Definitely interesting. No one seems to break with metallic cartridge rifles
I use to have one of these back in the early 70's when i was a teenager, i have no idea what happened to it, .... what i do remember was shooting a pheasant while in flight with it.
I hope your trembling doesn't get any worse so you can enjoy your collection as it is meant to be for as long as possible - and (weirdly i guess) beyond! From Quebec with love! Thanks!!
Thank you : ) the essential tremor comes and goes for decades. I appreciate your good thoughts.
A fascinating piece of history, one that I hadn’t come across on the commercial market!
Thank you, as always, for the excellent and informative video - you’re one of the most knowledgeable and charming people in the firearms community!
Many thanks from the UK
P.s. The video quality looks wonderful, have you got a new camera?
I diesel a Beeman springer.22 air rifle by simply filling 14.3 grain lead pellets with white petroleum. Pretty consistent performance improvement.
Very interesting. I wonder what powder they put in the Daisy ammo. Maybe it's similar to yours'
Interesting concept 💡
I remember early in my 22 collecting days seeing one of these in a rack of used 22s. Passed on it because there was no longer ammo available, at least at a price I could afford.
Victory arms in mocksville nc has 800 rounds for sale on Gunbroker right now
Fascinating. Doesn’t matter what it looks like, the second I heard Daisy, I automatically thought pellet gun. Did you ever try jamming a 22 pellet into it to see if it works?
What would propel the pellet?
@@c.j.rogers2422 It uses air pressure to ignite the charge. I’m curious to see how much they use.
Interested in what brand your coat and button up shirt are they look nice.
Good, informative video USOG! I recall seeing those advertised and tested by a staff writer in "American Rifleman" magazine many years ago. I thought it was a silly idea, {due to the "caseless ammo"}. Looks like it might be a good gun on the back porch to "keep the fox out of the hen house". Glad to hear that it is accurate. I don't think that I have ever seen the ammo for those anywhere ---( I was not looking for it ,,,, but I was not looking for 8mm Nambu pistol ammo either but have seen that at a Gun show --- 🙃 😉 ).
As a former Infantryman I can very much understand why caseless ammo was never adopted by the military: It would get wet and be worthless. We operated in rain, snow, mud, wind, ice, extreme heat, humidity. Military ammo from the factory has a liquid sealer applied at the primer end of the cartridge and at the mouth where the bullet sits to keep the powder dry. That caseless ammo would be a soggy mess.
Thanks for the post - makes sense. They wanted to make the powder waterproof - but I questioned the whole plan. Brass cases make sense. Cheers!
I don't think that would be an issue. The same polymer or whatever that seals conventional ammo could probably seal the powder. I don't think that would stop pressure induced ignition. It might be too fragile, though.
Great explanation! I vaguely remember these, never had one in my hands, that I recall. So many questions!
I wonder about consistency, give the variable in ambient conditions. Temp, barometric pressure, altitude, humidity. I'm probably thinking too much!
Good thoughts; but the pressures and temperature of the gas jet are on a different scale. I have 2 and both have always worked perfectly. Maybe I'm lucky!
Basically a fancy dieseling effect gun! 😂
That's about right. Maybe you've seen one of those experimental engines that runs on solid fuel - this rifle is something like that. The key is the high temperature from compressed air - but I think you get that. Cheers.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns Yep, but daisy put a one way ball bearing "baffle" in so that compressed gasses from the piston move it forward and go round it to ignite the charge upon which the ball baring would then be forced backward to seal off the air chamber protect the piston head. Neat system.
Fascinating wondering if this would work with bigger calibre .
Yes - I've seen a couple of prototypes years ago. Keeping the action gas tight was the main problem. The gas ignition worked well. One was a .44 cal - the other I can't remember. The powder wasn't as compressed as for the Daisy yet it still worked.
Very unique, I never heard of this. I'm wondering why Daisy didn't start with a repeater version.
The gunpowder is compressed and fairly durable but a magazine or feed mechanism would likely result in damage and distortion to the powder - and jams. This is one of the problems with caseless ammo. Good thought though.
As a kid i remember spraying penetrating oil down the barrel of my pellet rifle because it was supposed to improve performance. Idk if it actually did but made a cool smoke show.
Daisy got in trouble with these because they didn't realize that it would be legally classified as a firearm.
technically since these do function by dieseling a spring air rifle you can shoot .22 pellets out of them like an air rifle, but it's not going to be very powerful.
eventually they offered a couple of inexpensive .22lr rifles in the 80's but I don't know if they got an FFL or contracted production out to somebody else.
That is absolutely wild. Does it shoot just pellets with the compressed air?
AAI & General Dynamics have perfected military caseless ammo and offer a family of weapons for them. The Army seems to have changed the rules and wants significantly more power than their 5.56 & 7.62 analog ammo.
I also vaguely remember many years ago, somebody (Blaser?) marketing a bolt rifle firing conventional ammo, but with an electronically actuated trigger. Near zero lock time and movement, was supposed to enhance accuracy, as i recall.
I'll have to look that one up. I do remember firing the Voere VEC91 Caseless with Electronic Ignition - amazing and worked perfectly...yet not popular.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns That could've been it.
Remington Etrex I believe was an electronic primer also. I think if this would have been refined it would have set the benchrest world on fire. The system definitely works as I was on a 20MM Vulcan in the Army and they were electronically primed.
do you know how the air ignites the powder? as always thanks for sharong another gem
That's a FIRST for me!!!!! Those will be a Valuable collectors item
New to me for sure. And yes, funny it hasn't caught on or been developed further. Basically how some field artillery works. I recall during my time in the military being behind a line of M109 self-propelled howitzers. The shells (projectiles) are loaded into the breech first, then a sectioned powder bag behind it. Not sure how it was primed exactly, I think the primer was in the mechanism that seals the breech. Sections of powder could be removed to vary the range of the projectile. The removed powder bag sections were not re-used but discarded & burned.
So interesting. I think someone wrote me that they do have a primer - maybe electic somehow. Maybe someone could write us. I checked Wiki etc... and they don't say.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns I did a quick search & confirmed that a single use primer is used to ignite the powder charge. If you search for reloading videos on the M109 there are some good clips of the entire process. And yes, it's fired by pulling a string (lanyard) haha.
Is there a mechanism to unload it other than using a ram rod from the end of the barrel??
That is hands down one of the neatest little .22 rifles I hadn't ever heard of!
Thankyou for sharing this. Is ammunition still available I wonder now?
Thank you - ammo is still around or I'm being told one can make it.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns well I am definitely going to keep my eyes open at gun shows and pawn shops for them from now on! That is just too cool.
WOW - Cool 👍
Would it actually fire a .22 pellet?!? I'd suspect that much compressed air would...
Interesting
Neat!
Aw that’s really nice would love one over here in Scotland over my 22 pneumatic air rifle I wonder if those round would fire in a .22 air rifle with the compressed air behind the round ???
Greetings to you in Scotland. Good idea; the pressure and "gas jet" isn't sufficient to ignite the powder in a regular air rifle. Interesting idea though and theoretically could be a modification.
Wow, something new all the time eh? Even if it's old, But probably works by the deiseling principle. Thanks
Make shooting more difficult with the Daisy VL
😂
An interesting rifle and demonstration. Makes me wonder if the caseless ammunition could be used in a break barrel 22 pellet gun (Spring or pneumatic). Would depend on the ignition temperature I suppose.
An actual pellet gun does not have a heavy chamber needed to contain the initial explosion to get the projectile moving.
@@davidkohler7454 It'd be interesting...once!
Very cool, thanks for teaching me something new today. I think it looks like a GP rifle more than air rifle, the name Daisy and the feel of the polymer is probably why it seemed more air rifle to some folks. Underestimating the FPS is paying homage to Germany fore runners, my BMW hp rating are conservative as well haha. I really enjoy your knowledge, personality and content. What state are you in in the USA?
Hello - Good thoughts - to many it is not easy to picture as a gunpowder burning rifle. I'm in British Columbia and appreciate your kind words. All the best to you.
Can you make your own ammo for this? And can you upload it to say 22 magnum power...or 22 hornet power?
When i was a teenager who was into guns but couldn't get real ones, i was really into airguns. I heard of these and really wanted one, but realized that it was actually a firearm... An air actuated firearm... And couldnt get one.
I want to know if it would work in an actual air rifle?
Can it also be used to fire standard pellets ?
Not really
Not really
I wonder if you could only have TWO firearms a handgun and a rifle which would you choose.
How is a loaded round removed? Will it fall out if the action is opened and the muzzle upwards?
It doesn't fall out - I use a cleaning rod - maybe there is another way but I don't know it
@UnitedStatesOfGuns I wondered the same. Nothing to grab onto to extract.
I know where to get one but have no idea where to get ammo
Gun shows - or apparently people are making their own - but I don't have the formula. Some viewers say similar to some of the blackpowder substitutes.
how does the air set it off? Never seen this in the states before?
Here is a quote from the web that is pretty good:
Temperature is proportional to the average kinetic energy of molecules and pressure is the force applied to the molecules. If you add more pressure, the molecules will move faster or collide with each other and this will result in increase in temperature.
Ever notice your tires heat up a bit when you air them up?
👍
I'm new to your channel. In one of you older videos on rust, you said you had some health issue. As an avid surfer of the net I have found out that: Humans are obligate carnivores. We must have meat, fish, eggs, or dairy. We don't need to consume plants and are much happier and healthier when we don't. That's 80% fat calories (no vegetable oil), 20% protein/meat, and 0% carbs/plants. Sure, any carnivorous animal can eat some cereal, but they don't need it, and it is not good for them. The new so-called vegetable oils are poison. Wheat and sugar are bad news. And processed food...well...that goes without saying.
Thanks for the information - interesting
Dieseling airguns
I am trying to get some of my chemist friends to invent 3d printable smokeless powder. It is certainly NOT out of the question. It just takes some experimentation.
Never heard 😕
this is like dieseling on steroids
It's not a firearm or an airgun my friend... it's a diesel 😊
I have a new walnut stock and 2 bricks of ammo. hit me up for a deal. bye
Jajajaja The Old Daisy VL! Had a friend who had one in 76-77. Interesting, Definitely not the most accurate gun and NOT a pellet gun.
Ammo must be rare? Since its no popular...
Not too bad - and one can make the powder
I never knew.
I have owned a vl it was a very interesting rifle i must say...ammo was not so great