Moe Norman's Grip Position was Single Plane Genius
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- Опубліковано 23 вер 2024
- After spending 10 years learing from Moe, I realized that you shouldn't take anyting he did for granted - including his grip position. Every detail matters. In this video I discuss some important details about Moe's grip.
Hey Todd thank you . Your lesson are by far the best lesson ever simple simple simple . You should be named. The teacher of the year if not of the world 🌎. Simple teaching I practice 3 times and my score went down by 10 shots . Kudos for you
Thanks.
Todd is by far the best golf swing teacher on UA-cam. His attention to detail at the knee of the greatest ball striker is a gift to the world.
I love the obsession with the discovering and understanding the golf swing
Love it.
Great explanation of Moe's grip showing us how the back of the lead hand in square with the club face! It's no wonder you did your homework with Moe as a little piece of information can help others massively in mirroring the mechanics of Moe's swing! I sure missed this tip and video and now look forward for tomorrow to add this to what you have shown me/us out here already! Many thanks Todd!
Sure!
You're Welcome.
Just one thing, Looking at Moe, he had an understanding and a relationship with golf. Science and all that is a symtom of his technique. Simple is the message.
Todd, thank you for what you, Tim and others at Graves Golf are doing to explain and the teach Single Plane golf swing, and for keeping Moe Norman relevant! In 1997, I read Tim O'Conner's book "The Feeling of Greatness (The Moe Norman Story)" and became so intrigued about Moe Norman. Coming to golf at 45 yrs old, I was determined to golf well. I met Moe at a clinic in Florida and was in awe...especially with his pitch shots. Hitting balls, calling his shots, and drinking a Big Gulp from 7/11. I never was star struck or interested in famous athletes and then I read about and saw Moe first hand. Yes, he signed my book.
After years of chasing a Ben Hogan swing, then Natural Golf, and, finally, a Fred Couples swing, I lost interest. I thought I was done with golf and being able to improve until I watched a few of your videos better explaining Single Plane golf swing and the connection with Moe. I am interested again - probably because I understand how things work AND I have seen good improvements...quickly. Thanks for what you are doing!
Thank you for posting. You are welcome.
Thanks Todd I have been trying this over a year and my swing is getting to a very reliable stage of straight distance.
Great to hear.
I feel it can't be underestimated how important this "address and then grip" concept is. It's very subtle and difficult to tell with the naked eye but before adopting this method I thought I had a perfectly neutral lead hand grip. However in reality my club face was actually closed a degree or two. I was pulling the ball or hitting little hooks..... I thought there was something wrong with my swing but it wasn't the swing! It was the grip! My club face was very fractionally closed but that's all it takes to send a ball offline. Many Thanks. Tim
YOu just described the final piece of the puzzle for me figuring it out. The lead hand grip.
That's Awesome!. It's definitely been a huge missing piece for me too. I'll admit I kind of glossed over it initially. I just thought if I lined up the back of the lead hand with the club face then that was it and I didn't need to do any more. However I then did the swing in slow motion and it was apparent the clubface was closed a little bit at impact. I thought what in the world is going on here?! How can this be? Is the club slipping in my hand or something?! Obviously by not doing "address and then grip" I hadn't been letting my lead forearm reach its full range of motion! The ball is now literally going dead straight for me ! Many thanks for all the help Todd. This whole journey I've been on with this swing really has been a fantastic experience for me
Yes changed my grip trying like mad to learn swing can’t Waite to get on course keep watching your lessons thanks
Great to hear! Have fun.
There's a lengthy video of Mo hitting balls in 1994 whilst Craig Shankland (sp?) is interviewing him. Mo was very clear about his grip: a) he thought overlapping grips were 'terrible', b) his right hand held the club in the palm not the fingers. The left hand is as you described but the right hand was definitely not a modern 2-finger grip. This is because the right hand did very little work; his left really pulled the club through - Mo's own words.
Moe won every tournament with an overlapping grip. How can you explain that? Advice, - You shouldn't listen to Moe's "own words" unless you knew him personally to understand him. Much of what he said he didn't do. I am here to help you understand so you don't get confused.
@@ToddGravesGolf Reading all these reply's over again...The instructor I went to (Jerry Martin) talked about working around Moe Norman when he was teaching "Natural Golf" Jerry said he took a movie of Moe hitting balls and showed it to Moe and Moe insisted it was not him because he did not turn as much, his swing was pendulum, even tho in the film he was clearly turning....I went to see Mr. Martin after about a year of watching Graves DVD's...and as I would tell anyone letting someone who really knows the single plane swing look at your setup and swing is worth what ever the price, I was very close with the DVD lessons and a few of the training aids...just a few tweaks I never would have found on my own and I have been able to play much better. (my biggest mistake was forcing a wrist set to the point I cupped my wrist and would come down hitting perfectly straight shots left because of the opened club face..the non-rotational trail hand thought just would not work for me so instead I think flat lead wrist and my brain understands that more).
3:15
ua-cam.com/video/e_Wc6E17vao/v-deo.html
This is moe talking about his grip in his own words when he was 31 years old. I know the vid ur talking about.
@todd graves Moe said he rested the club in his palm not his fingers as you stated here. He said fingers move. Palm never does. Can you clarify this.
Steve Odessa this video describes Moe’s grip. Watch my video - on my Channel- about the Palm Grip.
ua-cam.com/video/NbtwprWqDCk/v-deo.html
Steve Odessa - Moe Norman never used an overlap grip. His left hand pointed at the target at address. His right hand was more under the shaft. He clearly stated in videos he " did not want any angles " in his hands/wrist" through to his arm. Point the left hand V to the left shoulder/ the right hand V to the right shoulder - and you will be pretty much the way Moe held it.
I started playing golf using the Natural Golf method. I played fairly well(shot 82 once). I switched to conventional to try to get better and completely lost my game. I switched back to single plane using your videos about a month ago. I can actually hit the ball again! Any instructors near Baltimore?
Contact me at toddg@gravesgolf.com and I can give you some direction for finding instruction.
I am trying to change to correct grip and swing but now I am truly messed up. Does it get worse before it gets better?
Sometimes. Here's why. When you make changes, your sequence changes. Even little changes can have dramatic effects. For every change you must relearn additional "changes" that will eventually result in better technique. Here is a question for you. Are you sure your changes are correct? In other words, are you sure you are doing it correctly. This was the most important issue for me. You must make sure you are matching the fundamentals correctly.
Todd, I attended your clinic in Chicago back in 2015 and I lost my notes for setting up the PVC Drill. Can you tell me and post the distance measurements for the positions: 0, 1, 2 and 3?
Ok. when you put the balls on the ground for the PVC drill, one ball is at ball position, one ball is directly 8 inches back and the other ball is 5 feet back and 1 foot to the inside of the target line. Hope that helps.
@@ToddGravesGolf Thank you Todd. I did not remember how far back the 5 foot ball marker was.
Warning....if you want to learn what Todd Graves does, follow his lessons and be aware that watching some of the UA-cam videos you are seeing Moe Norman demoing "Natural Golf" (pendulum swing, palm grip)..find the few videos out there where Moe is younger and the more rounded swing and what Graves teaches will make more sense.
True.
@Todd Graves : I've seen a lot of videos where Moe is hitting driver/ woods with the club positioned 3-4 inches behind the ball.
Where did he position his irons ? Thanks
Here are a couple of videos. ua-cam.com/video/JC3rFd1dPdU/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/PCXiIp7YUWs/v-deo.html
Had to switch to a baseball grip because a fused thumb on front hand prevented any wrist cock. I have to wrap fused thumb around grip to prevent pain. Any tips using a baseball grip with a single plane swing?? Thanks in advance Todd for any insight.
Hand orientation is the key. (rotations). You can always send videos to our coaches for review to make sure things are ok. Email me a toddg@gravesgolf.com for more info.
Hey todd, how did moe putt? I know he was the most accurate player ever to live but he must have been extremely good at putting. Was he also the best putter to ever live or was he just average and his accuracy with irons made up for it?
When I played with him I thought he was great putter. Moe shot 59 three times and held over 40 course records. You have to be a great putter to do that.
Todd Graves but what was his technique? Big Arc stroke or straight back straight through? what kind of putter did he have? Did he hit them firm from short range or drop them in? What was his grip like? I know he had the most consistent swing in the world but still 35% to 40% of his shots would have been putts, so we are still missing out on more than one quarter of his game. You should make a video about his putting technique, style, putting philosophies, etc. What made him so good at it, putting and full swing are very different, many many players are good at long game or putting but only the greatest players ever are world class at both, or even world class at putting and average at driving accuracy (tiger, dustin johnson, mcilroy, jack nicklaus).
@@markdelej He used a few different putters when I knew him. I produced and entire video putting with him. He putted on a slight arc and more of a right handed push. Used his wrists a bit too.
@@ToddGravesGolf Don't believe he was a "great putter". He was very good however which really isn't in the same class. There are a lot of guys on Tour that are Great or Good putters. We know who they are. Of course you have to be a really good putter to make it on Tour. Its seems like I'm nick picking but there's some truth to it. For example, Ben Hogan was a good putter but definitely not great.
all his videos are helpful and translate on the course but PLEASE hit the ball more in the videos!
Watch my most recent videos.
he won fifyfive tournaments.. so there's your answer and not everyone fits into a neat pocket of swing mechanics. I be taken what MN taught and used what works for me and as a golfer and human.. I play and practice alone because golf is so intensely individual..nuff said
James Walter
Janes, If you are satisfied with your personal swing then why do you watch UA-cam videos.? The reason Golf Bert aren’t very good at golf in general it because they think the golf swing is a personal thing and don’t follow basic and simple golf swing principles. I will assume by your statement that you are a scratch golfer.:)
Simplification leads to genius
am i mistaken but im sure you showed a video where he endorsed and used the “baseball” bat grip, not overlapping
Yes, later in his life Moe changed to 10-finger. position rather than overlapping the pinky. But I wouldn't call it a "baseball" grip. In Baseball, you wrap your thumbs around the bat and face alignment is not important. Moe never did this. I don't like the term "baseball" grip because much of golf has to do with thumbs and wrist alignment. Thanks for your comments.
Never baseball. Ever.
Just watching alot of videos of moe. And one were hes shown his grip. The right hand holds the club down the life line of the palm not on the fingers?. Any reason why you're changing his grip position
Moe did not grip club in lifeline or palms. I teach Moe’s actual position.
@@ToddGravesGolf the interview on UA-cam of moe norman 1994 golf swing demo, pga interview part one. He says otherwise himself? That it's in his lifeline and palms. Not or lapped or interlocked.??
@@griffo0071 I spent 10 years hitting balls and playing golf with him. Analyzed every aspect - feel vs real
@@ToddGravesGolf just watched a link you sent on another persons message that explained it very well Todd, he changed his grip in the latter years, but you're correct as per his radio interview. Really enjoying your videos of him and keep up the great work. I've just started to get into this swing. And watching all the videos I can. All the way in Ireland 🇮🇪
@@griffo0071 love to hear it. Let me know how I can help.
It's my understanding from researching Moe's swing, that he had two different grips. One grip (in the palms) he used when he was young to set all those records and win all those tournaments; the later grip that he used (in the fingers) in his senior years never won him a tournament, but did pay him some small amount of money to promote the grip used in 'Natural Golf.' So, is this video about the grip Moe used to win, or is this the grip he never used to win a tournament?
Moe played with and overlapping grip when he competed. He changed to 10 finger later in life. The PALM grip was really never a reality but wow, people make a big deal about it. I never saw Moe hit a full shot with a Palm grip - NEVER.
@@ToddGravesGolf people look to be spoon fed everything. Hold the grip in thepalms and fingers and see the result lol. Left hand is always the same . Right hand fingers u can get more of a whip. I notice about 5 to 10 mph ball speed more with overlap vs 10 finger just due to a bit more of a whip feel. Both work. Not a fan of the interlock feels too flippy for moes technique to me.
Moe’s hands didn’t overlap. If you want to see Moe Norman’s grip watch the 2 part interview with him, where he is hitting balls throughout the interview. He even says not to overlap your fingers.
Hey Chance. I have more photos of Moe overlapping than 10 Finger. Look at this picture here: www.thefeelingofgreatenss.com. Moe is overlapping on this famous picture.
@@ToddGravesGolf I saw the video where Moe shows the right hand grip of the club laying across the "lifeline " of the hand. i tried both right hand grips and have to say, I'm hitting the ball much straighter with the lifeline grip.
I've seen other Norman videos explaining his grip. It seems his was a lot more in the palm of his right hand. Am I not seeing your grip correctly.
I'll Let Moe Explain. ua-cam.com/video/e_Wc6E17vao/v-deo.html
@@ToddGravesGolf Thanks
I have changed my grip it’s already improved
Glad to hear it.
Hi Todd,
Can I use my own clubs I use Ping
You can you use your own clubs however, have you ever been properly fit? Eventually you will want to fit a set of clubs to your golf swing based on your arm length, hand size, swing speed and height.
With all due respect Mr. Graves........I have seen videos of Moe demonstrating a right hand grip that is a palm of the hand, not fingers grip of the right hand
With returned respect, I hit balls and played with Moe for 10 years. I can only explain from my experience, what I witnessed and measured. It’s a free world and there are no rules that say you have to believe me. Best of luck
@@ToddGravesGolf thank you. since i posted, I have seen evidence that contradicts my claim
I'm learning from you a new and better way to hit a golf ball..........thanks
Only 2100 views. Put all of the pieces together and the swing is magical. The thumb supports the club when hinged. The three finger pressure keeps the wrist from bowing. The tilt and wide trail leg. My swing gets better and better.
I’m experimenting with the one lengths from Professor DeChambeau - another simplification- any thoughts on that idea?
I have mixed opinions on Single Length. Multiple lengths might be better depending on your speed.
I think you are over thinking Moe's swing. As Moe said
He had a very simple grip and with a short swing. He overextended his arms, and swung down through the ball on line. I think he hit the ball like he was swinging a baseball bat. Just saying.
I liked it. I tried it and it works for me.
Very Simple yes.
Interesting in all the Moe Norman videos he has NEVER uttered single plane or anything remotely close.
moe hit golf balls until his hands bled, that is y he was the best ball striker in golf
True. He worked, bled and solved the equation. Now all you have to do is copy it.
Moe held club with hands and with no interlocking grip.
Teezer vid. Long way to go for more info.
Moe Overlapped until 1994 Then he was 10 Finger after that.
What is a single plane swing?
The club starts on the impact plane. Single shaft plane at address and impact.
Graves Golf... It's time to bury your old swing!
Keep it Simple...
Can you comment on Moe in this video where he talks about how his grip being all in his palms and no fingers? ua-cam.com/video/JeIT0af2C_M/v-deo.html at 5:55
thats not moes grip moe used a ten finger grip holding the club in his palms
Chip Fow here you go- facts. ua-cam.com/video/e_Wc6E17vao/v-deo.html
But I watched Moe state very clearly that he held the club not in the fingers but in the palm.
Tom Hall what Moe said and what he actually did were different. That’s why I studied his swing and practiced with him.
If you look at some of the books that have photos you will see Moe with an overlap grip.
For awhile Natural Golf paid Mr. Norman to even play with a two hand grip. I don’t think Mr. Graves will respond other than tactfully and respectfully.
This grip brings the club back without thought and allows a free flowing motion.
I’ve read all of the books and seen what I think is all of the video footage ever produced on Moe.
I wish I’d been there when Todd Graves was working with Moe. He’s preserved a real gem.
I’m now working on ball position uphill downhill etc using Moe’s positions. I’ve mastered driver tight lie and it’s on to the coke bottles- a bit scary.
Wait so you crawled between Moes legs to watch his swing? 🧐
Um...Yes.
Mo was not the greatest striker of the ball. That’s just bs endlessly repeated by fanboys. If he was tour pros would be copying him. NONE DO. And for good reason. Ben Hogan on the other hand is being studied closely by most great golfers and always will be. Mo was an excellent and consistent ball striker. I give him that. His very simplified and odd ugly swing can greatly improve lifelong hackers - say incessant over-the-top clueless choppers. But he has nothing to enrich already good to great players.
You crawled between his legs to look up at his WHAT?
novamasc lol.
@@ToddGravesGolf LMAO, thanks for having a sense of humor. I'm in desperate need of lessons. Do you offer lessons in Northern Virginia, DC area?
novamasc I’m not there much but I have a great instructor that is there often. Want me to connect you with him?
@@ToddGravesGolf yes, please do so. I have been trying your swing techniques for 4-5 months now and i'm having inconsistent results but i'm sticking to it. All my previous swings just don't work. I want to become more consistent with the Moe Norman swing.
novamasc can you email your contact info to toddg@gravesgolf.com - thx