Sacrifice: Ritual and Myths
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- Опубліковано 19 тра 2023
- Join me as we delve into the fascinating and complex world of sacrifice, and particularly human sacrifice, within Indo-European cultures in this enlightening video. We explore the multifaceted aspects of sacrifice, from its symbolic importance in restoring cosmic order and renewal to its functional role in reinforcing social cohesion and power structures.
In this journey through ancient practices, we uncover the unique relationship between sacrifice and the creation myths of Indo-European cultures. We draw parallels with the primordial beings Yemo, Ymir, Gayōmart, Yama, or Yima, and reveal how these stories intertwine with the concepts of sacrifice.
This video discusses the critical yet often overlooked perspectives on sacrifice, examining how these practices could have reinforced social hierarchies and gender roles. We also ponder the psychological impact of sacrifice on individuals involved in these rituals, and how the evolution of societies led to the decline of such practices.
Most importantly, we reflect on the altruistic aspect of self-sacrifice and its relevance in our modern world, where the quest for order and balance often demands sacrifices of a different kind.
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I would like to thank my dear friend @Crowhag for her contribution regarding the topic of sacrifice in Thracian culture.
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In my readings of the early Roman empire, I was struck that before Julius Caesar, gladiators seem to have only been used at funeral celebrations. Of course, that did change, but I always wondered if gladiatorial combat was a long forgotten funeral sacrifice. Romans themselves often said that they had rituals that they didn't know the origin of, or even the purpose of, so I could see that this might be one of those things.
That’s a very interesting thought, and I one I shall try and look into. Thank you for sharing it.
I have read that it came from an Etruscan tradition to have men fight to the death at the funerals of nobles and the Romans considered it a form of human sacrifice. Regular gladiatorial games as parts of festivals in Rome was a regular occurrence long before Caesar's time, he was just known for putting on the most extravagant gladiatorial games up to his day. One must also remember that most gladiatorial fights in Rome were not to the death, that is a reflection of modern popular culture propagated by Hollywood.
@@Crecganford Thought it was accepted gladiatorial games derived directly from funerary practices. Are you sure they're wrong to say important captives were "ritually sacrificed"?
@@Crecganford I don't think forced Roman hand to hand combat equates to funeral practices. As you said. Rig older than Gilgemsh, yet thats where sacrifice was copied by the Abrhamic. I'm so excited to hear what you'll teach us next. Thank You.
@@Crecganford oh goody! You're going to tell us about the Horse Phallis sacfice, I heard that was practiced by a sect derived from Roman/Christian sect/tribes?
My introduction to the term “soma” was from Huxley’s “Brave New World”. Nice to learn the noun has a very deep historical meaning. As with every aspect of Huxley’s society, soma lost any spiritual connotation and is just a ubiquitous mind altering drug.
Huxley was a member of Fabian Society (Burgoise-Communists philosophers of NWO) so it's very possible he wanted to taint the term Soma.
I had a very different introduction to the term "Soma," but it's led to me hearing a few Brave New World references over the course of my life ;P
It was Terrance McKenna for me but he always gave good references to where he read or heard about the concepts he talked about.
Soma was alcoholic drinks of indo Iranians
@@SomasAcademy I broke hella shit on modern soma lmao
Great video. The idea that you had to SEND someone to tell the gods what is needed is strange to me. Then I thought: How would this sacrificed person KNOW what everyone needs? Sure, they know what their closest friends and family need, but what about those in the village they DON'T know well? Those others would need to give the man to be sacrificed a list. A gift list.... Then he would hopefully check it twice and compare it to who has been naughty and nice.... then the sacrificed man, all in red now from blood, disappears to talk to the gods and only later, invisibly, return to give all the right gifts to all the right people. After that, he again disappears into the sky.... until the next list be needed... hohoho.
I like the mushroom analogy better, but this is a close second. well done!
When I hear about tactics in modern wars like drafting people to be used in human-wave attacks or as human-shields, one wonders if human sacrifice every really went away.
Honestly no. Heck Christianity is centered around a human sacrifice. To say nothing of executions...
@kipp kipper some have described the Russian tactics in Ukraine that way.
@@jakeaurod ex-criminal squaddies apparently, so not really human
Human nature doesn't change
@@davidrogers8030 talking about (ex-)criminals in this way tells me you know nothing of the crucial role for (young adult male) outlaws in proto indo European culture which makes me wonder what you have been doing here
You almost had me with the extremely happy cats, but I'm glad I resisted the temptation. Another brilliant lesson, sir!
Thank you so much.
Very pleased with your delivery on the Dacian Sacrifice of the Messenger, Jon. As always, a deeply insightful video!
And thank you for your help, you are a dear friend, and have exceptional knowledge of the Dacians.
@@Crecganford Thank you likewise, my dear friend!
Thank you for sacrificing your time to produce this excellent video and sharing your wealth of knowledge with us.
Doesn’t matter what religious or cultural significance human sacrifice has, it’s evil and monstrous, and should be universally condemned. No exceptions.
Sacrifice had, past tense, no one's condoning it, can't pretend it never happened.
@@margaretwebster2516 True. I have no problem with acknowledging atrocities, so long as we don't try to justify them.
Would love an episode on horned deities like Cernunnos or Herne the hunter. Antlers, headdresses and their function.
That is on my to do list, although not sure when I can make it, but it shouldn't be too long.
I second this! :)
I've heard the connection between crown and horn, power and royalty.
Someone's listening to Heilung
Man, there are a few yotubers I passionately follow, but none of them makes me prepare a cup of tea, put it on the table, then start the video and wait for the magic words😂
Thank you for those kind words.
Recently archeologists have found the remains of human sacrifices to Zeus on a mountain top in Greece. The Rpmans usec to sacrifice defeated enemy military leaders eg Vercingetorix to Jupiter Capitlna. Human sacrifice is part of the bedrock of our civilisation too.
Yes, I do want to look into the Greek sacrifices more in the future, and the top of the mountains is a good place to start.
@@Crecganford I got the information on a UA-cam site called origins explained in a video entitled "Discoveries of Forbidden History". It names the archeologist in charge of the dig if you want verification. Greek civilisation would be a fascinating subject, especially as its origins seem to lie in what is now the Ukraine and Southern Russia.
@@RichardChave-xl9yw I was about to comment too about the human remains of the mount Lykaion.
I was wondering how could I contact this guy to ask him to talk about this.
Thnx
This Channel is such a gem. To think I accidentally clicked on a video 1 year ago. I now look forward to this channels releases lol
Thank you so much, but was it luck, or was your destiny fated? (It was luck)
Interestingly enough, there's a good argument that the Romans actually performed human sacrifice too, despite their distaste for the Germanics' and other barbarians' sacrificial practices.
The Roman triumph involved prisoners of war, often enemy leaders, who were processioned through the city and concluded at the temple of Jupiter Maximus. Here, the prisoners were executed. So. A ritualized procession after a great military victory, involving an honored military leader wearing the drapes of a king, his enemies totally-not-sacrificed at the temple of the highest deity.
Since my high school, my educators, repeat it themselves like a mantra you have a gift from God and you should not ignore it. You should persist with your artistic call length, but keep in mind you will be sacrificing a lot in your life just to be an artist. Many years went by too fast, and I come to realize the choices I have made were the best and the most amazing things I have done in my life and I don’t see it as a sacrifice. I’m giving back to universe with the gift I was blessed with I work 16 hours a day I don’t care to get paid for my artwork I have friends I love I have children I love I’m all sad I don’t need anything. My life is so wonderful. So many people in this world are struggling with their every day existence, and more than that with their own mind. My mind is absolutely open like space. There is nothing in it, and from the emptiness everything comes out. How old is beautiful paintings, you see, or created out of emptiness and void.
I’m ready and willing to be highly uncomfortable. Love the channel and keep up the great work❤
Thank you.
And welcome.... to Cracganford. .... kind of epic 😁😎😎
I must account for a truly ridiculous number of views on this video by now because I keep playing it in the background as I'm going to sleep (I find your voice very soothing) but I always fall asleep too quickly and I want to learn more so I play it again the next night. The cycle continues 😄
Thank you for teaching this despite all the christians out there telling you to stop because it's 'dehumanizing'. That's such a 'load of nonsense. Knowledge is power and those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. I think we need to learn the how and why so that we can better understand our psychology as humans and better limit our dark side.
As a former marketing undergraduate who learned something there, I suggest that you could use the words 'Mesopotamian', 'Babylonian', 'Phoenician', 'Ancient Israelite', be it in the title or as hashtags at the description of your Near Eastern videos, to attract more views! Those words seem to have strong appeal in streaming services.
They also attract the aluhat people
Очень жду субтитры на русском, чтобы в полном смысле понять, о чем говорится в ролике. Но ставлю лайк заранее, ибо Crecganford делает то, что мне нравится!
I often use the UA-cam captions with auto translate to watch Russian content. They are far from perfect and there are many obvious errors but it's good enough to follow what is being said.
@@disband_thebbc5933 thanks
Whoa just saw it, going to grab my cup of tea!
Such interesting stuff. I'd really love to see a children's book full of indo european myths
Not sure much of this would be considered suitable for children, given how society's values have developed over the thousands of years since.
@@bec5250 And filtering out the more frightening aspects would leave children with an unrealistically benign image of Indo-European culture. That said, I suppose this is how fairy tales were generated which, having been progressively edited over the last couple of centuries, now we have the Disney versions.
The Grimm brothers wrote them down
@@urbandiscount the witch will follow your breadcrumbs to the oven and don’t go into the woods alone little red. Morals of the stories you speak of.
Get Neil Gaiman to write it
Interested in your description about the Roman bull's blood sacrifice and your discussion about the use of blood in religious ritual. In pre historic Indo-European cultures, burial rituals were accompanied by liberal use of red ochre with graves containing thick layers of that pigment. It obviously was of a tremendous religious significance to them. I wonder if, when the IE tribes migrated out of the places where red ochre was readily available, they decided to use blood instead - or if the red ochre was the substitute to start with.
Fascinating
Many thanks for the new great video. Like still super interesting and a true pleasure to listen and learn more.
Fascinating subject, appreciate the time and dedication that went into producing this.
Thank you so much for your kind words, they are appreciated.
Another excellent video.awesome knowledge my friend.really enjoyed it
Another great and informative video as always! Your work is greatly appreciated and I'm looking forward to the Slavic themed video in the future.
Wonderful. Thoughtful and well-researched content.
Thank you.
So glad i found your channel, it's become one of my favourites, thank you. (I've never drunk so much tea)
I approve of this comment in every way!
"Can you imagine..." Nowdays human sacrifice is on mass scales, perpetrated by nation-states, for the acquisition of land, capital, and geopolitical power. And we consider our current world superior and more "civilized"...
Another great piece of research, thanks 👍
Thank you so much.
So fascinating. Thank you for producing this amazing content ✌️💕🌻
And thank you so much for watching it as well.
This speaks directly to the roots of our oldest instincts! Killing a fellow human, be it for the purpose of war, personal conflict or gain, or religion... was a normal thing for our early forbearers. So killing might be in our genes?
Look up Pan Paniscus (Bonobo) and think about if they were our basal ancestors instead of Pan Troglodytes (Chimps).
Bonobos also practice racism and segregates any mixed babies into a zone in between the 2 tribes. It's so unreal to see, if you can find a documentary to watch of them I would highly recommend you do.
@kipp kipper i totally agree but we would call it racism.
@@rosiehawtrey This is a very valid and nessessary argument in this discussion. First of, chimps are our evolutionary cousins. There's no direct lineage. We share a common ancestor. But in chimps and in homonids the inclination towards violence is clear. In bonobos it seems to be lacking totally! Why? How? That are questions we need to answer in order to understand what violence entails. Furthermore, although being gifted with violence we've also proven we can go more bonobo. We have a plight to ourselves to find out what's what. But we never may underestimate the strenght of an evolutionary inheritence.
@kipp kipper and what do you think are the roots of racism? It is them and us, eh?
Thank you so much for all your research, the quotes... this video is great!
Thank you.
Do a talk on what is that little pocket book we see figures holding in so many ancient figures all over the ancient world.
The practice of women immolating themselves upon the funeral pyre of their dead husbands seems to have been a widespread form of self sacrifice from ancient times. Though popularly associated with India it has also been observed by Arab travellers among the Norse, and Russian epic poetry indicates it was also known among the Slavs.
I have just visited the Isla de sol (Bolivia) and I saw the table where the Incas did sacrifice of young girls. Such a good video for me to learn more!
great video top notch research
Thank you for your kind words.
The Morgan Freeman Havamal reading was a bit off-putting haha. Great vid as always!
I understand that it's outside the Indo-European realm, but I'd like to hear your take on sacrifice in Semetic and other Near Eastern cultures.
I will cover this in a future video, but there was too much to fit it in this one as well.
I'd also be interested in the Sinitic cultures' acts of human sacrifice, if you have the time, of course. Great Video.
Blot doesn’t mean blood. It’s derived from a word meaning worship or sacrifice.
Blood in Old Norse is blóð, from Proto-Germanic *blōþą (“blood”), cognate with English blood, German Blut.
Call me a cynic, but I would assume that a vast majority of sacrifices (other than self sacrifice) was a power-play of the priest class as a way to exert power.
And that is why I compared many side by side.
Thanks!
Thank you for your support, it is very much appreciated.
You should write a book about comparative mythology and themes/myths you have talked about here - id buy it ❤
Thank yiu. I am writing such a book which should be out next year.
No please don't let him do that
I'll buy it too for sure!
You don't mention the 'year king', embodiment of the vegetation god, who was sacrificed each autumn at harvest time. (as described by Frazer in his 'Golden Bough').
And dare I ask: what is your view on the sacrifice of Jesus? Or is that a taboo subject?
Never quite understood human sacrifice as a way to appease gods.
I can get my head around most nonsense humans used to think was okay, like slavery, because I can see the very real benefits of it.
Who do you think got sacrificed the most? Hint: the same people that Africans sold to Europeans, since it was cheaper than killing their excess.
@@Egilhelmsonwhat? Africans didn't have a monopoly on being enslaved. I don't think the original poster was talking about the Atlantic slave trade.
The only BUT i would say about your video is the fact because of your strong indo-european accent not let you see others cultures like the aztecs, mayan or the human head hunters of Borneo just for example. They don't see to had that kind of social problems with the sacrifice of humans beings but is interesting to see or consider like the human sacrifice is something common in the human culture wich in completely different to the fact to eat human flesh. But also the only idea of killing human being can be used againts your enemies in and effort to diminished or underrated if not remember how the romans used to use certains religious practices of the carthaginians people to justify theirs wars against Carthage.
Yes, my studies and research are Indo-European focused, and so in my next video I will explain why the Indo-Europeans sacrificed.
This has been quite lovely and enlightening as usual. Do you have Patreon?
I do, it's called Crecganford.
Excellent story again! How many years of study went into this, I wonder..
What is the connection between Neptune, Lord of the Ocean, and earthquakes?
He would strike the earth with his trident, and this is what caused earthquakes.
Neptune, though his Greek counterpart Poseidon, was known as 'The Earth Shaker'. The people believed that the land floated on the ocean, so the ocean god could easily shake the land.
Tsunamis connect them.
In Japan it’s a large fish that wiggles in the ocean that causes earthquakes
Had been hoping to hear you weave in Bataille's ideas about sacrifice & the accursed share. Disappointed to hear Eliade instead (the obvious reason) but maybe we'll have a follow-up that deals with Bataille's philosophy.
I will talk about specific sacrifices in the future, as there is only so much I could cover in one video considering time constraints. I’ll make sure Bataille’s is within those future videos.
'Altruistic nature of sacrifice: one can offer oneself for sacrifice to restore order to one's realm.' 👍
❤
Talk about shooting the Messenger!
Getting Morgan Freeman to read the Poetic Edda was a genius move.
Thank you!
Just a small, trivial, correction. It's "português" not "portugues" for the language in the subtitles. And it would be cool to distinguish between brazilian portuguese and "portugal" portuguese. Great video regardless, love this channel!
Thank you for your feedback.
br > pt
June 21st 2008 hospital sacrificed my dad.
Odin also sacrifices (or barters) one of his eyes to Mimer in exchange for knowledge
I have done a lot of the independent research in order to understand the origin and meaning of sacrifice. The myth of Prajapati feeding the created world with his own substance is indeed the heart of the matter in my opinion.
And animal sacrifices were also about food and offering of gratitude among people.
The twisting of these principles into the idea of atonement and punishment is the root of politics, however, and the corruption of religion with the ironic and poisonous idea that humanity is depraved by nature, and thus requires blood offerings to earn forgiveness and presence. The corruption of the world by the culture of corruption.
"It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest I go to than I have ever known." - Tale of Two Cities, re secret substitute for execution
When I click on your video first I click like because I have to save it anyways so I can go back to it and listen to three more times😮 I’m not very bright😢😅
New office is 🔥
Thank you.
This brings into question the Romans' alleged disgust that the British conducted human sacrifice.
They had likely abandoned this practice by that point. Similar thing happened when Persians reached Greece and Egypt.
@@mohammedfarahmand7809 as I suspected. A difference of only a few generations, yet suddenly oh so important!
Culture wars! 😆
@@mohammedfarahmand7809 No, they hadn't. It was an established part of the Roman triumph, but the Romans didn't really think about it as human sacrifice. This is a bit of a pattern of human civilizations, where outside groups are condemned for things that are actually fairly established parts of the culture doing the condemning, but it is so deeply entrenched and often ritualized, that members of the ingroup don't even think about it as such. Consider early modern Europeans and their disgust at cannibalistic practices in Africa, Polynesia, South America... all the while ritualistically consuming the blood and flesh of their saviour figure and having widespread practices of medical cannibalism (drinking the blood of executed prisoners or consuming Egyptian mummies as medicine was common in Europe until the beginning of the 20th century)
The human sacrifices of the Romans had been regularized and hidden away, like the King of the Golden Bough, who kept his station so long as he could kill any challenger, or the gladiators, who started as a Etruscan funeral rite of sacrificing one of the two slave fighters for upper class funerals.
@@olenickel6013well noted! Thanks! 😊
I would love to see that chart that gave a glimpse of, to us. Please!!!!
Thanks for your work !
I have 2 questions for you :
First, what are youre thoughts about kings sacrifices ? In Snorri's Heimskringla, we also have peoples sacrificing the king (Óláfr trételgja) after years of hunger. Are there other stories in Indo-european mythology and what do they mean?
Second, what is your thoughts about practices such as sati (suttee) in India ?
Thank you for watching, and for the interesting questions. I talk about the Kings sacrifice in this video, but also have a video about the Indo European King, and this covers the subject well, and why there is sacrifice. As for the ritual of sate, I can understand where the ritual comes from, but it isn’t one I could support or recommend. But religion makes people believe things that I do not always agree with.
Much improved sound, please engage the high pass filter on your fine microphone for optimum intelligibility, thank you!
Thank you very much, and I will.
Jon great video again sorry to lead away from the topic i know you had a video where you asked for suggestions for new topics we would like to know about
i just looked and couldn't find it. probably missed it or didn't scroll far enough.
anyways just seen someone post a reply on an unrelated topic that the Phoenix story is a modern day rewrite, that the story dates back to the Egyptians and was actually about flamingoes flying out of the heat haze from the deserts. would love to know the truth behind this myth. as well as others that may have changed.
The phoenix is something I will be talking about, I will try and make it sooner rather than later.
You mentioned the sacrifice of "every living thing that is male" and then illustrated it with nine bulls, nine rams and nine mares ... mares are female. Didn't you mean "nine stallions?" Other than that minor quibble, you present a very interesting video.
Good spot, you should make yourself a cup of tea to celebrate.
The hanging of arms from trees by the Goths may have some relation to the story of Beowulf hanging up Grendel's arm up in English tradition. The Scythians also sacrificed arms to their war god, who was represented by a sword, while the Irish Nuada was one armed and had a sword which could cut through anything.
The arm, or any part of the torso, is representative of a warrior within Indo-European tradition. And so removing part of the torso indicates you are removing the ability for that figure to be a warrior.
Even in the Bible, there are frequent references to human sacrifice. Abraham and Isaac. Israel backs off from a siege after the enemy's king offers his own son as a human sacrifice on the walls. A victorious judge of Israel had promised to sacrifice the first being he sees coming home, and it is his own daughter. The daughter was allowed to roam the hills a bit before her sacrifice, and there was a ritual day in her honor afterwards.
I like your videos, this one got very Basie and difficult to equalize out
I'm sorry about that, but thank you for your feedback and I will look to fix this in future.
@@Crecganford it was a minimal complaint I very much enjoy your presentation.
Is there any evidence on whether a promethean fire-stealing figure existed in proto indo european myth? I ve been interested in that mytheme and its various iterations worldwide (e.g. Opossum, Mātariśvan, Pkharmat, Māui etc.) and as a long term fan of this channel I d be itnerested in hearing what you have to say about it, it could make for a very interesting episode
A great question, and the answer is not directly. But I will talk about this myth and its origins at some point because it is interesting.
Have you ever ever thought doing videos on Elder scrolls lore ? Maybe as a side thing?
Yes, I would love to cover this and other popular culture, to describe its influence. So I hope in the coming months I can start making videos about these.
You put a lot of effort into making substantive content. If there is one recommendation/hope for your channel: don't be afraid to police the comments. When the anti-semites and racists start to come to your channel they will draw others and soon your comments will be a pile of hateful idiocy.
I do my best to read as many comments as possible and do end up removing a small but significant percentage.
🙄
😯🤯🖤
Adam von Bremen is said... according to the German Wikipedia...never been in Uppsala himself. So he reported from hearsay or writings that came to him. And a temple never were found around uppsala.
So it is doubtful whether the story of the sacrifice of "everything that is male" really ever existed as a religious practice culture-wide.
But it is memorable that this "tradition" is formatted in the way. It is with the Indo-European culture line in such a way that those fled before the dominating male rulers and the "cultural narrowness" of the patriarchy to the west and developed a new culture thereby. This "escape" from the man may be reflected in the (albeit rumored) mythical/religious practice. Above all, it also fits well into modern reality, where Scandinavia is very feminine.
And if one wants to drive this further, one can interpret in the sphere also into it, that because of the extremely high suicide rate (above all from men) in Finland approximately, the victimizing of men found other ways, which look less "demonstrative" and willful.
We know (or assume for logical reasons) that there are still men in Scandinavia, but I suspect that with "male" something else is meant than only the abstract sex. For example, as the man who outgrew the social community. What in the case of the distant Indo-Europeans (Scandinavia as a distant enclave of migration) here means: has risen above the woman and the child. What seems tolerated only so long by woman and child, so it is useful for the community. For example in times of war. Maybe men has to overthink his relationship to women and childs, because they both tend to sacrifice men without any doubt....not a realy modern idea of being on earth/in society, but.... still reality.
And if also with the establishment of the Christian religion the sacrifice rituals obviously stopped, the sacrifice was replaced only by another sacrifice. In this respect, an increase in efficiency, since there is now only one sacrifice: Jesus. But this is not true, because in order to sacrifice Jesus, hundreds or thousands of men (and women) have to die (his theological fathers and mothers) - which is enforced by crusades. So the sacrifice is outsourced, like production and jobs in the late 20th century.
Which in turn boils down to the fact that it is really about "killing everything male". However, in doing so, it cuts itself to the flesh, because if that were ever fully successful, the humanoid would become extinct as a species. In this respect: a proof for how absurd sacrifice rituals and their evolutions are. The whole idea, that one must give something to the universe, in order to receive something, is absurdly twisted in its meaning. Physically we know the conservation law and this is found again in... exactly in the life cycle. One is born, lives and dies. No need to give away anything on top. One gets and gives to the universe in each case itself. What pulls the actual purpose of sacrificing from the universe and diverts on the earthly: into the social community. And today, we have the imperative, that nobody should killed by something - even not by ideologys. What, by the way, likely enough, also existet in times of ancient reiligiouse practices of sacrificing - what makes the sacrificing somewhat inconsistant with the idea of being and existing as a human.
Anyway, but not only in the indo-european cultur was sacrificing a thing. Also... as some other cultures accuse... the carthagians sacrificed humans...as the myths say. And they are not indo-europeans. Maybe that carthagians are some "brothers in spirit" of the everlasting war against men/patriarchat? Sounds stupid, but the core of the complication is, that there was/is a manliness, from whom they all fled. And as we know, also the carthagians fled to the west (from eastern mediteran-sea-coast). That meme, that the east/west migration is a big thing, is normaly totaly unrelevant, but there is also the mechanical sky-mechanic and the result out of that, that the day on earth migrates around the eart-round. And with it, the peoples night and day-/sleep and wake-cyclus. And there is that modern scientific thing, where the scientists diferentiate between peoples, who are waking up early or late on the upcoming day (larks or owls). Owls tend to migrate western, larks to the east - if they needed to migrate. And maybe its the sleep-variaten, that motivates to migrate.
More mythic is the explanation, that the owls, because they wake up late, wanted to have a longer day(light), so they must migrate to the west. And the larks wanted to be even earlier in the day, so they migrate to the east. I belief, all the peoples wasn´t consciouse about that, it simply results in that tendency of migration.
So we know that human sacrifice was widespread through many cultures, not just PIE cultures (e.g. Aztec culture). Do they have a common origin, or were these parallel developments, that were independent?
My expertise is less for other cultures, however I will try and investigate these in time.
Very much independent. In the pacific although Micronesians and Polynesians traded and had similar language structures sometimes one side practiced human sacrifice (namely Hawaiians) and Cannibalism (Fijians). We don’t practice any of that in Micronesian cultures and I think it’s due in part that we were mixed in with this Lapita culture which was a more gentle culture you could say.
But if the arguments from some people are true, the Polynesians had contact with South America. And it was supposedly evident thru a certain species of Potato and Chicken which are native to South America and were widespread before Columbus time. There might have been a transmission of culture therefore possibly drawing a parallel development. Which explains why Polynesians practiced human sacrifice and Micronesians don’t.
Mr Crecganford, I've had a question about Roman Cosmogony that has bugged me for a long time. You say that their primitive cosmogony has been redrafted in the form of Romulus and Remus as an explanation for the beginning of the city of Rome itself. No Google research can answer my follow up question for me: independent of the founding of Rome, how did they think the actual world started?
I talk about this in my video on the Near East Creation Myth I made a month or so ago, and so how it went from the Near East and into Greece, and so Rome.
The widespread influence of the Greeks upon ancient Italian peoples (Etruscans, Latins, Oscans etc) led to a general adoption of their cosmogony so that much of the native Italian cosmogonies have become lost. Despite this several older myths survived by being adapted into a newer setting such as the founding of Rome.
Shamash, Ninurta, Bull of Heaven and Ishtar . . . the Epic o G is a story. But it is also a story about gods and constellations. Could that be considered religious?
From an academic point of view it is a myth, and myths talk about gods, but it doesn’t mean it is religious. For example, look at the Iliad or the Odyssey, both talk of gods, neither are considered religious texts.
Kudos on getting Morgan Freeman to narrate Odin!
@Crecganford oh goody! You're going to tell us about the Horse Phallis sacfice, I heard that was practiced by a sect derived from Roman/Christian sect?
This video does talk about that, but in non-graphic terms
I have a romantic and little bit naive hypothesis on animal sacrifices. People those days lived very closely with their cattle. Although that were hard times creating hard men it could have been sometimes not that easy for those people to kill their cattle. But if you do it for a deity or the „greater good“ you are excused. You do the right thing so it wouldn’t be so hard.
I think there may be some truth in this in some instances of culture.
What use is there for cattle but to kill and eat them, except for a few bulls kept to service the cows, and cows producing enough milk to make keeping them profitable? Plus, milk cows eventually grow dry and thus are not worth keeping.
Most steers wrapped in pieces in Saran wrap and sold in groceries are only about two years old or less.
@@Egilhelmson There is no other use. But nonetheless if you live under the same roof with your cattle. You know them from their very first breath, their preferences, their „personalities“ it may feel a little bit hard to kill them. It’s a kind of bonding. That’s why people are not used to eating their dogs because there is a relationship. It’s nothing you can’t overcome especially when hunger grows. But I think it’s much easier if a god or a similar thing takes the responsibility. Today we don’t hide behind deities but behind the walls of slaughterhouses or when it comes to hunting behind the idea of masculinity and power. I’m not vegan but I would prefer if people would reflect a little more on the topic of killing other creatures (including plants).
I can't help but wonder if Sallekhana is a surviving aspect of the PIE human sacrifice beliefs
What about the tripple death of the Druid Prince at the time of Suetonius? He was selected by a burned piece of bread, then hit on the head, strangled and drowned in the swamp
It says a lot a species when said species turns sacred and ritualises what is purely death, killing and suffering.
I've been wondering if animal sacrifice came from a need to cull a herd. When winter in coming and the herd of cows, pigs, or sheep were too large, there wouldn't be enough grass for the herd in the winter months, so they kill some of the animals, the remaining would have enough food. Over time this act became a religious practice, a way of giving the gods something in the hopes the gods would give the people a mild winter. Then the tradition spread to other times of the year for, sacrificing to gain other things and eventually people would be sacrificed out of desperation.
I think there was some of this going on, certainly in sense to kill surplus animals at particular times, which would in turn feed a feast.
Death in battle is called "sacrifice" and it seemed to be only a metaphor. Perhaps not. Traditionally only males are sent to fight on battlefields and with animals kept for their meat the males are 'culled" before winter to reduce the herd. Infertile females are 'culled' also during the year, from what I have read.
On Norse Magic and Religion UA-cam channel there is a segment on execution by hanging as a way to contact the Spirit World, and he said there were sometimes volunteers for this type of offering.
I once witnessed a Buddhist ceremony where toy-sized "animals" were assembled from vegetables like carrots and marrows, radishes and things like that and these were put on a decorated raft on an ocean beach where the ceremony was held. The officiant asked us to remember a person close to us who died that year and we spoke in turn, giving that person's name, the raft was carried to the ocean's edge and a young man waded into the water, pushed the raft past the surf and swam out some distance with it so the current would take it. This was sometime during a Northern Hemisphere summer.
The Native American Sundance ceremony done by a number of Western USA tribes
traditionally involves men who pierce their chests with skewers and the skewers are attached to some kind of twine attached to a central pole and pulled until the men are on the tips of their toes and there they stay for hours or more.. This is also in summer. You could call it a blood sacrifice. One author, John (Fire) Lame Deer, said the men are not pierced as deeply as in the past because they have jobs and the men cannot take time off from work. Curiously, despite the poverty, alcohol abuse and everything else, one elder from that tribe who was interviewed was optimistic. He said their population was increasing.
This practice might have started with animal sacrifice, but, as anyone who watched The Wicker Man knows, sometimes an animal sacrifice won't placate the gods and only a human will suffice.
@kipp kipper I didn't assume it was purely for piratical reasons, I was wanderig it started for practical reasons before becoming religious and moving beyond practicality.
@kipp kipper That's what go the idea in my head. Animals were valuable so killing one as a sacrifice to a god seemed so impractical and financially harmful to a farmer, but if they were going to have to kill them anyway why not use them to get favor from the gods. Of course not all sacrifice would have any practical value. Tradition and desperation would have led to (and still do) people making impractical decisions.
Livy describes several instances where when a hermaphrodite was discovered in Roman territory it was considered a sign that the gods were angry and that the child was drowned in the sea to placate them (I tried searching my Kindle version for specific passages but it was uncooperative). I consider this a form of human sacrifice. Just the same as whenever a mule gave birth, it occasionally happens, it was sacrificed to appease the apparent anger of the gods. In both instances it was seen as a omen of the displeasure of the gods because only they could cause something as unnatural as the birth of a human with both sex organs or an animal that was supposed to be sterile giving birth.
@kipp kipper well, it's certainly a time of disorder.
@kipp kipper Yes, perhaps some of the blue-haired non-binary types could be ritually sacrificed to appease the gods?!
did they do the bull sacrifice in Spartacus too?
Ŕg-veda
As if suttee were not a human sacrifice 😮
Ţara fără batrâni. 32:13
The Aztec didn't seem to mind.
Sati is not a human sacrifice. If you want cognates of human sacrifice in the Indian religions, look for the coconut
You often talk about the effect of living experience influencing the mythology (particularly dominating your coverage of Australia). It seems unlikely that we would just make up the central facts of the central myth to explain how the world came to be with no connection to our reality. Were a bunch of folks sitting round the fire telling stories to pass the time and THIS fiction was so impressive it was carried around the world? Seems unlikely. I have no concept or guess about what this reality would be, but am most curious.
Not just human sacrifice, but cannibalism of the sacrificed bodies. If one reads The story of Cain and Abel in Genesis 4 in an esoteric way, Cain killed Abel because Abel sacrificed his own son (son ow in Hebrew; which translators render as "of his flock" and other such words). The movie Doomsday with Rona Mitra had a vivid scene of the survivors roasting one of Rona's soldiers and sharing his cook flesh among the crowd. Europeans and Americans for centuries burned people at the stake, another form of human sacrifice. Did they eat the offerings? Who knows, not me.
I really like your work and I hope this is taken as a friendly rebuttal, but there're many issues with the Manus and Yemos reconstruction. Yemos is the PIE name of the Vedic Yama, Lord of the Dead, not Puruṣa. Yama also is not cognate with Ymir despite their similar appearance. Ymir means "screamer", not twin, as Ymir is rather a "double" as an androgynous being. Puruṣa, like Ymir, is twin to no one, whose sacrifice is conducted by the gods rather than his tein brother. Even in Yama's case, Manu is his brother and does sacrifice him, but he is *not* his twin. Yama's twin is the female Yamī, whom Viktor Rydberg connected to the Nordic Urðr. Yama is the first mortal to die, who becomes lord of the Underworld, and his sacrifice is different and separate from the true primordial sacrifice of Puruṣa/Ymir. Yama is comparable to the Irish Donn, Roman Dīs Pater, and even the Nordic Mímir (according to Viktor Rydberg again), while Puruṣa is the proper Ymir analogue of the Vedas.
Thank you for taking the time to feedback. I have covered the nature of the etymology and cognate nature of these names in earlier videos which was quite a complex affair, and this has support from many academics. But I will actually write about this in my next book which I hope to release next year.
Thanks for the cat video.
You’re welcome, I hope people found it happy.
I have always wondered why people would think killing anything was a good thing as far as a ritual practice instead of food. People are so violent and weird.
If you look at the descriptions, often the smells are given to the gods while the meat and fat were given to the priests and community, and this was acknowledged as a cunning trick on the gods.
Likewise, in the Epistles, some (Paul?) refused to eat meat because all the meat in an urban setting came from animals sacrificed to the Greek gods, rather than God. Butchers were, I guess, a class of priests.
That thumbnail's giving me Yellowjackets vibes
I can see that now!
No mention of Alken Enge when talking of Germanic sacrifice? An entire warband sacrificed.
I will talk about specific sacrifices in future videos, this is an introduction into the practice.
@@Crecganford Alken Enge is so very interesting, especially as it is only seven or so km from Illerup Ådal. And *not* the army that carried the weapons found there.
Is there any hint that our closest cousins such as Denisovans or Neanderthals practiced sacrifice?
I think ive heard you mention before that ancient peoples served the gods because the gods were malevalent -- where can I find more resources on this, and does sacrifice tie into the bodily needs of the gods, as ancient near eastern people saw?
This is based on the etymology of the words, and so I would recommend Anatoly Liberman's work on the wild hunt being a great starting point on this. Although I have always thought about producing a video about this, perhaps I should.
@Crecganford please do!! I mentioned this point in one of my videos, and people were asking for sources. Id love a deeper exposition. Thanks!
@Crecganford unfortunately, it seems that Liberman's book is out of print. Cant seem to get ahold of it anywhere. Im assuming you're referring to his "In Prayer and Laughter". This is where he discusses the gods being malevolent?
People have been sacrificing gods since the messiah shell game began. Scapegoats were their way of claiming the innocence of lesser evilism