8.6 Blackout Barrel Lengths Vs. Velocity
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
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"This video is for educational and entertainment purposes only. All guns displayed off the range are safety checked and only displayed pointing in safe directions. All footage at the range is private range and the gun is handled by a Range Officer certified by the National Range Officer Institute. This video is not promoting or attempting to sell guns. Sale of guns is heavily regulated and I am not associated with any federally licensed firearms dealer. The actions of all firearms displayed are unmodified and presented as commonly available from original equipment manufacturers. This video is not instructional on building or modifying firearms. Nothing has been done to increase the rate of fire or lethality of the firearms displayed nor would I advocate making such modification as it presents a huge liability and potential risk of harm or death."
I want to see a review of the Garmin device.👍
This
Probably going to make that happen! Thanks for watching!
Fo sheez
It would be a boring review. It just works. One of those devices that makes it function .... boring bc it's just simple.
Yeah, want to see the goods on that chronograph
Awesome content as always, and yes a garmin review would be nice to see. Appreciate the time and effort that goes into these videos.
Appreciate you taking the time to watch man!
Definite yes on Garmin review, please.
As an armed bodyguard, this is of great interest as a force multiplier.
Greetings from Austria 🇦🇹 😀
Thanks for this review. I’m currently building a M5 Aero Precision set up with a 12” barrel. This made me feel solid in going with a 12”.
Looks like 8.6 is like 9mm, 10mm, and many other calibers in that it gets tired before the end of a 16" barrel.
My 10mm out of 16” slaps harder than from a 6 inch pistol. Not sure if it would be slowing as don’t have a 14” to test from.
@@1014p I won't pirate Alabama Arsenal's video with a link, but I tested 13 loads from 3 different 10mm barrels and all but one had marginal gains after 6"
best gun channel in UA-cam
Really appreciate that man! Thanks for watching!
AGREED+++++
Guns: GQ Armory Paladin 8'', Q Fix 12'', Ruger American 16'' w/ Mostek barrel.
Ammo: Callaway Ballistics 285gr ELD, designed for 12'' barrels
Chronograph: Garmin Xero C1 Pro (so small you can mount it on your rifle!)
Suppressor: Diligent Defense DTF-LTi
**One purge shot taken before chrono turned on.**
4:20 Q Fix
5:40 GQ Armory Paladin
6:55 Mostek-Ruger American
Thanks, I probably should have done that in the description. Thanks for watching!
Hal from Callaway.
Many Thanks to Tim for this Amazing Video and even more AMAZING DATA!!!!
An 8" .338 PDW is just nuts. Hell, the caliber itself is crazy - the high twist rate approach will yield a lot of interesting setups in the future I predict.
I want to say I don't know a lot, but I have a feeling about it too. We're close to something novel.
I have an issue with Kevin Brittingham's claims concerning 8.6 Blk. He says (and he says it on video) that an 8.6 Blk puts more energy on target with a 12" barrel (shooting supersonics) than a 308 does with a 20" barrel and with 20% less recoil. He claims it is because of the 1:3 twist. I call BS. I've done the math on his quoted ballistics and the numbers do not add up.
I'm pretty sure if super fast twist rates do what he claims, a major manufacturer would have jumped on that bandwagon long ago. Kevin is certainly not the first person to try fast twists.
Either way, it's still an interesting cartridge, but you need a large frame rifle (AR-10 size) as it doesn't fit in an AR-15. Of course, bolt guns don't matter in this case.
@edwardlance2379 I don't know how Kevin did his math, but I assume that he added in the rotational energy of the two cartridges. A 300 -350 grain bullet spinning at close to 500k rpm should have a lot of stored energy. The effectiveness is to be determined.
The ownership and use of silencers are starting to be more widespread compared 15 years ago. This has resulted in many innovations. The baffle designs and materials used in silencers is an example. Fast twist barrels were not needed to help subsonic bullets expand until widespread use of subsonic bullets were a thing, hence the recent innovation. The gist of what I'm saying is that because of the NFA, some firearms technology is behind. It is an exciting time for firearms enthusiasts, with 3d printing flow through suppressors, fast twist barrels, and affordable thermal optics.
I did the math on the rotational energy of a 150 grain 30 cal bullet from a factory rifle (1:12 twist) and it was on the order of 9 ft-lbs (it's been a while). The 8.6 was something like 33 ft-lbs. It's not a lot in either case and even if we add the rotational energy to the translational energy of the 338 projectile of the 8.6, it is still nowhere near the impact energy (translational) of the 308.
@@edwardlance2379 I don't mean to be that guy... but math claims don't mean squat in the face of ballistic gel tests. I really don't care what your math says when I see the lungs literally blow out the back of the test dummy. Not to mention that's at a subsonic velocity. Argue and take issue all you want, results don't lie.
Great video and data Tim! Here's another vote for yes on the Garmin. We might have to pick one up for testing as well 😉
I gotta get me one too
You guys make some incredible firearms!
I can confirm this...
*Alabama Arsenal* Bravo well done, thank-you sir for taking the time to bring us along. GOD Bless.
Glad you enjoyed it! and thanks for watching!
Consistently some of the best gun content out there. I dream of living your life man!
Definitely intrigued by the Garmin, I vote yes on a video
Same here. Yes from me.
All content is completely legal but despised by totalitarians.
Facts... Thanks for watching!
8.6 all day. Happy to help get anyone dialed if they need help with their build 🤘🏼 #86hq
Thanks for watching man!
Thank you, sir, for this amazing content. 👏🏻
Appreciate that man! Thanks for watching!
Best gun channel on UA-cam
Appreciate that man! Tell your friends!
Nice to see one of our BBl’s getting some range time.
Love the MOS TECH barrels. I ordered a 13.9" 8.6 barrel from them and I'm having a Dead Air break pinned and welded to make it legal 16". I'm just waiting on my action to come in before I take it to my gunsmith. Can't wait to get it put together.
This is the data we needed! I think I speak for most of us when I say we absolutely want to see numbers on ballistics with the xero
Given the quality of your reviews, I am flabbergasted that you don’t have more subscribers. Great information as always, Tim.
I am very intrigued about this round
It’s pretty cool
@@AlabamaArsenal it sure is
@Alabama Arsenal great video as always! My take mirrors yours' after I think about it more = DRAG from the barrel caused the decrease in velocity for the 16". Now, regarding the various loadings tailored for specific barrel lengths. I find it irrelevant that ammo makers are doing this, I have in my own finding discovered that 50 fps in the subsonic world is irrelevant when considering real world targets that are less than 200 yards away. 200 yards as the distance most folks should probably limit their real-world hunting distances too....
That Paladin is gorgeous!!!
YES IT IS !!
Yes, and it's what im saving for currently, I can't wait. 2,800 than the supressor. The only issue is it doesn't come with the maxim deffence stock that looks similar to the honey badger like all the other calibers. I'll have to call them.when its time to purchase. Their around 400 bucks separate.
@@Dirty2Clean1980 Good luck to you, I'm sure it will be a sweet gun!!
Big yes for the chronograph video 👍
I'm cautiously excited about 8.6, but I have heard NOTHING about it's super sonic performance. I'd love to see another vid like this for supers! I'd love to see a garmin review too.
I built one of these before the 8.6 creed was a thing. IMO not enough case capacity and the 300 grain bullets didn't do much velocitywize so I went to the WSM case. My subs work great plus I the case capacity to really push most bullets
Why would you use supers on this?
@@WickdPerfekT so you could get more capabilities out of it. Unfortunately unless your running the lighest 338 bullest your not doing much with the creed case superwize
@@WickdPerfekT because subs, even 300 gr mechanical broadhead-type subs are not as good at killing shit.
@@shrubjr893 with supersonic rounds, that speed is used to achieve rapid bullet expansion upon entering the target, efficiently transferring the bullets energy and creating a wound cavity.
You're correct, you don't get those characteristics with sub sonic, which is why subsonic is notorious for goosenecking and passing right through ballistics gel.
However, 8.6 uses a different method to transfer energy by utilizing projectiles with a wide expansion footprint and a fast twist rate. This combination makes It's extraordinary effiecent at transferring bullet energy to the target. It's unclear if supersonic speeds would even aid with this unique energy transfer process.
Excellent 8.6 info. Thx for sharing.
AlabamaArsenal delivering good content..
Yeah, the Q guys, they hit a homerun with this round.
It's pretty impressive. Thanks for watching!
In before haters say we stole it. 😂
My guess is that it slows down more in longer barrels due to the 1:3 twist rate which imparts more drag on the bullet.
I would love a comparison video of a AR platform suppressed 8.6 vs a bolt action suppressed 8.6, very interested in how much of the action and pressure increases noise levels. Great video as always!
The bolt gun is going to be quieter, period. Most AR platforms run 120-ish decibels just cycling the action. Add port noise to it as well. Assuming the suppressor is capable of keeping the blast noise below that threshold, the bolt gun will certainly be much quieter.
On a sub sonic round with a suppressor?
Should be a good learning experience for the general public
Love the 8.6 content.
Yes to Garmin video and Yes to a ballistics gel video with 8.6
.300 and 8.6 blackout were both designed to be shot suppressed from a short barrel w/ very aggressive twist rates.
I am very interested in the garmin, please review. I bet your 16 barrel being slower has to do with bullet jump to the rifling, I have a feeling the jump is longer and causing the pressure to be lower. 8.6 uses the exact same powder as 300 blk, mainly 1680, and 300 blk does not have that issue, measure your bullet jump between rifles.
Fantastic info mate.
I watch many Firearm channels and this is the first time I seen somone shows relevance of performance and platforms.
So many talk about calibers performance, but dont really emphasis the cost of that performance which includes being in a bigger form factor like AR10 or longer barrel to get that performance. Barrel length alone can change a bullets performance to mimic the capabilities of other calibers.
THIS has be thinking. Was debating on getting a fix and trying to decide between the 8 and 12 inch variants.... NOW i think the 16 might be the most versatile...Might just get a barrel conversion for my Ruger american as well. Thanks brother!
Your production, video and audio is great. I do have a question though why was Garmin set to pistol instead of rifle?
Thank you! It has to do with velocity, essentially if you are trying to get accurate readings at slower speeds, like subsonic 8.6 BLK, you need to set it on pistol. Then you'll see the velocities associated with that setting align with subsonic rounds. Thanks for watching!
@@AlabamaArsenal From one Alabamian to another thank you for your timely response and clarification. That makes sense concerning subsonic readings. Would be interested in shooting my Sword International MK-15 IDC?
Definitely would love a video on the chrono
Yes to Garmin review.
Probably going to make that happen! Thanks for watching!
Great video!
Definely make a Garmin xero video
Yeah I think I’m going to. Thanks for watching!
Try 8.6 blk 160gr supersonic in different barrel lengths.
Awesome stuff man
Thanks for watching man!
Almost 3 seconds flight time. Love it!
That delay is equal parts hilarious and satisfying...🤣 insert the Spongebob 'a few hours later' meme here.
I'm actually getting ready to buy a 16" 8.6. I'm not sure why, but feel like it would be fun.
It is pretty cool! I think you ll enjoy it. Thanks for watching!
That’s why I built one
That’s a really cool rifle round with a FAST twist rate! I’d like to see a Garmin chronograph review, too.
Im sure lot of people are excited about the garmin I sold my labradar after watching the first video I saw about the garmin. It still hasn't arrived yet. But I haven't seen a bad review on it , It just seams to good to be true
I wish I could find someone to buy my Labradar, it is everything they claim. I'm blown away. Thanks for watching!
Yes please!!! Video for the chronograph!
If Ruger doesn’t make a SFAR with a 10-12.5” barrel in 8.6 blk they might want to go broke
Not sure if that has a custom barrel, I kind of think it does, but I bet Mostek could re-barrel it! Thanks for watching!
@@AlabamaArsenal Custom barrel extension only, so should be able to switch.
Ruger needs to fix the SFAR before they branch out with it.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz true
That ar10 paladin boy. Like a wet dream. That sob sick as hell. Great video.
It’s hard to tell watching the video, especially with music sometimes playing in the background but did you notice a change with sound signature with the three barrel lengths?
It's not as significant as you might think, but the same rule with any caliber exists, the round gets slightly quieter as the barrel gets longer. Thanks for watching!
“Most reliable ar-10s that can be made” *gun jams*
Why doesn’t this channel have more subscribers?
That’s a good question! 🤣 please tell your friends! Thanks for watching!
Great video and would like to see one made on the Garmin chronograph. Very interesting.
Probably going to make that happen! Thanks for watching!
Chronograph review!
Probably going o m make that happen! Thanks for watching!
Hey! dang I wish we could have talked, ill call you tomorrow!
Speaking of 300blk it was originally developed in Cocoa Fl before the idea was stolen and patented towards the end of its development and named 300 whisper. Now it’s called 300blk
Not quite. Same concept, different donor cartridge.
Parent case in both is 221/223
No question about it this was being developed in Cocoa, Fl before JD Jones caught wind of this and patented it after stealing this idea after hundreds of hours of research and development were performed.
you better make that garmin vid WITH HASTE BOI I NEED A CHRONO
#discreetballistics is where it’s @
Manufacturers are ok with 350 legend on 9mm cans, but not subsonic 8.6 Blackout. Why?
Which manufactures?
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballzrugged, of all people
You could try the same video in different bullets.
For example, 7.62x39 loses about 120f/s between 16" and 12". That's a good compromise.
What about 9mm or .45acp between 4" and 8" (mp5 or ump45)
Yes Garmin. And BTW, cut my .22 barrel from 18 inch to 12, gained 20 fps with the subs I shoot.
That is very interesting! A buddy of mine got a 22" 22LR and was all excited about it, we started checking the speeds only to find out it was lower than my 18". It's not something you see often but in certain rounds drag is a very real thing. Thanks for watching!
@@AlabamaArsenal I feel a .22 barrel length video coming on, with subs and supers. I researched the web looking for guidance before making the chop, and there was little good information for an optimal length.
The 8.6 was designed to optimize subs in the 12" barrel, so it's not surprising that you get those results in a 16".
A slower powder would likely give you a different result.
Also, supers will perform much better out of the 16".
Excellent video with great data. I'd be more excited for this if 8.6 projectiles weren't so expensive. It's almost double compared to 30 cal. You won't be saving much by reloading.
This is true as of now but I think once federal and hornady release factory ammo after sammi is approved next year, we will see prices decrease
Yes I would like tosee review of Garmin device.
so much hang time long range its almost like you edited in a "1 Mississippi, 2 M...." slomo splice for effect. But I guess thats just how long it takes til impact. Thanks for sharing you're 8.6
You seem to shoot a lot of 8.6 blackout. What would you say the barrel life for 8.6 is?
Great info! Thanks! Has any barrel life data come out on this cartridge?
Awesome
Appreciate you watching!
Honestly, the more I research this caliber with a 1:3 twist, the more I'm convinced that it's a perfectly optimized subsonic caliber.
If GQ went with a gas piston instead of DI with their Paladins, I would buy it in a heartbeat. Same reason why I didn't buy the LWRC DI 300 blk or the Q honey Badger. Also, I have no idea why they decided to make the bolt release ambi but not the mag release.
Sig MCX Rattler LT ftw (lets hope they got the 8.6 blk coming soon).
But if the chrono is mounted to the gun, how am I going to accidentally shoot it?
Thats why you bring friends to the range.
Wish you'd post the numbers at the end of the video so we could compare. Barrel length and average speed would have been nice to look at and not jsut as you're testing. Great video though, and looking forward to more 8.6 videos!
Garmin vid a must!
People don’t think spin drift be like it is... but it do...
As always, great video. I hve to ask, are you independently wealthy, hit the lottery, or inhereted a ton of money?
🤣 None of the above, just very good at making poor financial decisions! Appreciate you watching!
I 100% wanna see a review of that garmin
Yes Garmin video! From south Mississippi
Yes, bring the Garmin.
Glad I got a little stubby boi then!
I know 8.6 blackout is optimized for suppression but can u run without a suppressor
That range looks like an awesome place to administer some freedom!
Yes on garmin vid. Love everything you do.
Appreciate that man! Probably going to make that happen! Thanks for watching!
They are copying JD Jones again. He had the 338 Whisper #1 30 years ago. The only difference is the twist rate. JD Jones used a 1-8 twist and they are using a 1-3.
Don't forget about the 338 spectre
I don't think the guys at ssk or tromix wanted to keep anything proprietary, it is simply the demand of the market just like the how the ultra mag cartridges came to market and the lazzeroni cartridges are now almost unheard of let alone seen.
Do you recommend the Q porq chop suppressor or any .338 can
Beyond noise levels. We all want to know about groups, velocity on target?
What was that black bolt action near the begining of the vid? The action looked/sounded super smooth. It wasn't one of the 3 that you tested throughout the video
WOOX stock with an Impact action and Faxon bbl. Not sure which trigger.
@@jackburton7959 Thanks man!
Would love to see a ‘Bama Arsenal video on the Garmin. Looking to upgrade from my Magnetospeed.
Pretty sure I already know what’s going to happen.. I’ll hit it regardless, but hell, make the video anyway!
Ballistic Advantage is now putting out a 14.5"!?
I’m down to see your take on the Garmin.
Might just have to do it! Thanks for watching!
Did you get the 1:3 twist or the 1:6.5" from Mos-Tek? Trying to decide what twist I want on my custom build. Can you do a Super Sonic Test next?
I got the 1:3 and I haven't worked up a super sonic loading yet, but I plan to in the future. Thanks for watching!
The Garmin uses radar, so it's similar to the Lab Radar chrono. The Garmin is a lot smaller though physically and runs about $100 more than the Lab Radar.
Bring on the Garmin ballistic video!!!
I like the way you explain everything in detail
Thank you
I have a question
Have you ever considered trying multiple composition projectiles to very the volatility and spin
For example an overpowered load that is a patched and wound in reverse shot from a smooth bore
Ie. The projectile don't start to spin until it has already left the barrel
Interesting smooth bore chamberings hinted at by a man named browning
Or maybe it was Sharp's
Sorry about the spellings I'm kinda going blind
It's really great to hear your enthusiasm
God bless you and your's
Just saying 🇨🇦😁👍🏻🇺🇸
🙏❤️ Love from Scotland ❤️🙏
Is it bullet drag or a vacuum beeing pulled behind the bullet inside the barrel?