Grow Light distance from plants | Efficiency Vs Uniformity
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
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The best grow light distance from plants is a compromise between:
Hanging the grow light as close to the plant canopy as possible to maximise the amount of light reaching the plant (most efficient grow light setup)
&
Hanging the grow light high enough to distribute the light evenly across the plant canopy (for best uniformity)
I use PAR charts generated by @LEDGardener on his PPFD test website, ppfdcharts.com/
For the following grow lights:
Viparspectra XS1500 in a 2x2 or 60cm x 60cm grow area
MIGRO ARAY 4 PRO in a 4x2 or 120cm x 60cm grow area
Spider Farmer SF7000 in a 4 x 4 or 1.2m x 1.2m grow area
HLG 600Rspec in a 5 x 5 or 1.5m x 1.5m grow area
In each test I look for the maximum PAR to be in the range of 1,000 to 1,100 µmols/m²/second and the lowest PAR reading, usually in the corners, to be no less than 60%of the maximum, ideally 80% for the best uniformity.
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How was the result on a Migro light ? I know they aren’t the best on even his rating yet it’s always so much more. Yet how is your experience?
im saving to buy the Aray 4 for my 2x4 even if there might be something better out there in the market just for the simple reason that Shane has been so transparent and honest with his reviews and for being an amazing person, i feel like the light value goes beyond the product itself.
me too bro
My first seedling came through the dirt a few days ago using the aray4. You're gonna pat yourself on the back for buying one. I already love mine.
I hate scammers ⬆️
2 ×4.....lol
@@filowbetdo5772 ??
Well done, Shane. You've got a knack for breaking these things down to simple terms and numbers so everyone can understand. Keep up the great work.
What happened to your site? It seems down
Now I understand why you tested your Migro Aray 2 lower than the other ones in your previous video. Thanks!
Hello from New Zealand, you channel provides some great knowledge, We appreciate the time you put into these Videos Thanks.
I use the Grow300. I like to hang the light high as I can in my tent. And dim the light up or down using the PAR reader spotOn. I start about 200 with seedlings and adjust the par reading from there.
💯
Excellent information Shane thanks for putting these video's together
I find your tips and guides very informative, usefull and accurate I have watched a lot and refer my mates keep it up mate
Thanks for sharing alot of people leave out this information 👍🏿
congratulation on 100,000 subscribers xx
This is really good content. Scientific, concise and clear. Love it.
Everything I'm wondering about you got a video on it; great! I'm looking to overpower my lights just a tad for my size tent so I can have a bit more distance and reach excellent uniform numbers dimmed, and use two instead of one so I get corner to corner coverage as most LEDS do drop off significantly once you're out under the board and large boards usually have a big hot spot in the centre.
glad u had a sweet holiday with the family.... your wife is a treasured gal
Nice work migro, as always.
loving my aray pro, i also have the vipar 1500 in my veg room.
I was just making a similar video. I'm gonna have to do another take and name drop you and this video to help share knowledge. The more you know the more you grow 😆
Led gardener is a really good guy I learnt alot building lights from him
migro and dr. bruce bugbee 🧠
you said lots of web sites like yours ..nah you got that little more quality and info then any other migro sets the par ...good stuff
just picked up a Viparspectra P4000 with your discount code. Cheers!
I got the sp3000 from Mars hydro n I love this light
I believe there need to be a conversation about ppfd 12 inches away from optimal distance. How well does the par hold up at greater distance. That effects canopy penetration.
Thanks Shane! Curious, do you agree with ramping up DLI during flowering? As an example, one website recommends a DLI of 25, 28, 30, 35, 40, 45 during the 1st thru 6th week of flowering. Or should I hit the plants with a DLI of 45 starting in the first week?
What I find kinda funny, all those lights are dimmable and tonns of people are making a huge fuss about that function but yet, I NEVER FREAKIN EVER see that function being used in a test, just hight adjustments! WHY? For the XS1500 e.g. how about 14" hight and dimm it down a bit to get rid of that 1.2K hotspot? For the 3 provided charts 14" looks like the sweetspot, except for that hotspot. Why am I asking? I wouldn´t put more than ONE plant (ya know which one) underneath a single XS1500, 2x2 is just perfect for a single plant using low or very low stress method. Got two DarkDevils in a 80x80cm tent and there´s not enough space for two more and I´m using just low-stress, not very-low or even extrem-low stress like last time. And for my 80x80cm tent, I got four (4) Vipaspectra P600 inside that tiny tent with the lights hanging closer to the walls/corner for more uniform lightoutput. I looked at the single lamps for that tent, but I simply don´t like their lightspreading, at the sides and in the corners the numbers are WAY to low for my taste (350-400mol?), so screw that 100W less powerdraw, when those lamps easily have 200mol less than four P600 in total. If I positioned them correctly, I should have 800-900mol on the entire area.
This is insanely helpful. I'm growing in a 2x2 on a budget, 1 plant taking up about 2/3 of the tent and it is at the start of late flower with a sf1000 I did some of my own calculations and came to 7.7 inches as the perfect height but I don't have tools to confirm. However, seeing the info here I see I should raise it to 8 inches, and this balances everything a bit better. Really aiming to maximize what I can get out of this single light, this plus vpd have been quite a big change.
i'd go with 8
Do yo dim your lights? And what % ?
You *
Thanks!
I have been looking at the GLS 850 for purchase and was curious if the light was hung 24" above the canopy if co2 supplementation would be needed or if the light can just be dimmed down? I like the idea of having the higher wattage light for a larger space later. I am currently in an 8 x 8 tent and planned on using two of the GLS 850 for now.
Very informative 🌱thank you
The plants kind of tell you. If tops too close they will singe/curl up.
Thanks Shane. What do you think abouth like christmas tree plant ?
thank you!
Great channel, Shane. What do you think is required in order to achieve 90%+ uniformity from 8", such as might be desired in vertical arrays? Are secondary optics the best bet if cost is offset by DIY or could it be achieved simply by appropriate coverage end to end? Cheers from Australia
thanks
Hi Shane great video ,just if someone had four off the older Migro lights in a 1 m X 1m , in theory ,make hight would you recommend ,as much as I remember you recommend 30cm to 45cm I think ,so would you recommend around 52 to 55cm ,thanks
Thank you so much!
Is there any possibility you have all your material saved? I'd want to download all of it and have it on a physical copy, you have the best material on the net at the moment.
Solid for the knowledge 💯 watching from New Zealand gathering all the knowledge i can to grow potent frosty skunky 420budz
We need to see a review of the Lumi Black led that runs off of your old hps balast
Could you please comment on UVA, or do a video about pros and cons?
can you talk more about using the uni-t bluetooth meter with the app, weren't you going to work with the app developer to create a better light profile for that device?
Someone told me to always upsize the light. In other words, if you want to garden in a 3'x3' tent, buy a light that is being advertised as adequate for a 4'x4' space. The person went on to say that most companies exaggerate the capabilities of their products - and that, therefore, you're more likely to be able to harvest a crop of fruits and vegetables as if you were growing under the sun (I'm not really much for lettuce, although I am partial to the rabbits that it brings into the backyard ;-) ). He also told me that, when one goes "one size up," one often gets a product that is physically larger, which helps get light to the perimeter of the garden without over-illuminating the middle.
I am thinking that HLG did not receive that particular memo. . . .
I'm sure a company like hlg who is currently leading in the industry cares what your buddy thinks. What a joke.
@@yrntthelibswipedofftheeart16 Clearly missed the point.
I heard and wondered about companies exaggerating so I bought a $500 apogee e par meter. Made a grid on the floor and tested for myself
Turns out with my led light manufacturer did not exaggerate at all.
But there is a lot of shady brands out there that do
If i use a 500w LED at 60cm hanging height - can i go to 30cm when i dim down to 250w?
Have you done a review on the bestva led lights
@ 8:12 ...just the other day I was wondering about CO2 levels. It can't be that simple.
I had planned to spent many hours with Dr Bruce Bugbee videos to figure that out.
When they say average par for the footprint, is that full power? The light I have has 4 dim settings. And hang 36, in
I go much higher than most hanging recommendations. I go like 20-30 inches above canopy. I find if you are hitting your target ppfd at a higher hanging Hight the light pernitrates farther down to the floor. The ppfd stays higher at lower distances the higher I hang my light to a point. Not to mention better coverage. I run six 240 watt led's each covering about a 3x3 area.
Same here. I put light as high as I can in my 5x5. And use SpotOn to get PAR readings from there.. I find letting the plant grow into the light works better for me then putting light as close as possible
@@Matt85USA same here. Hang high and blast them!
So, do these scammers know they're pieces of crap, or do they think they're just normal people trying to get by?
@@toastiesburned9929 😆 now that's a good question 🤔 🤣
@@toastiesburned9929 oh, they know alright.
im trying to learn as much about light for my autos but hard as im Dyslexic however i got a ts 1000 for me 2 x 2 tent
Do one for the Horticulture light 135 Rspec. PLEASE what should be the distance
What would you recommend the hanging height for a spider farmer SE3000 (300w) for mid veg and what dimmer setting ?
So I can get as close as I can safely as long as the par is correct?
Hi Shane,
When using a quantum sensor is there a rule of thumb to follow to work out light distance verse intensity , an average ?
Hi,
You want the center reading as around 1000 with the outer readings as high as possible for good even coverage.
A quick glance though their chats tells me to stay away from anything that isn't a bar light. the hot spots really show when your looking for/at extreamly low hanging hights.
Hello, great info as usual, thank you Shane. I love the Aray line 4 the simple clean design and assemble, less is more... would luv it on my kitchen table. Question: when u drop the distance from top off canopy u loose some penetration, say u start with 800 at 18"... 400 at 36" etc. The further way from tops the better u deal with a thicker plant... so cobs for deeper canopy and panels for a sea of green style?!
Paulo, the reality is light dos not penetrate past the first leaves and drops to about 10% of the light level above the first leaf. The tests LED Gardener have done shows there is a small but gradual PAR reduction as the light level is raised. I would always suggest dropping it as low as the tips of the canopy will allow at the most intense point.
@@MIGROLIGHT thank you Shane
@@MIGROLIGHT I think people are confusing penetration with reflection. Raising a light allows for more photon scatter, which means more is striking the walls of the space. Some gets absorbed (whoops - efficiency hit, lol) - but the remainder reflects downward at an angle, and can end up *indirectly* reaching lower leaves. While the inverse square lighting law is not so simple in an enclosed space, it's probably still not the best way to use one's electricity. However, I am thinking that much depends on variables such as what kinds of plants the gardener is growing, number, size, density, et cetera. As indoor gardening lighting has evolved over the last 50 years or so, the "best" way to garden inside has also changed; the most efficient way to use one type of garden light is often a poor way to use a different one.
The above is my *opinion*, of course.
I’m all about uniformity. Used the smaller 150 watt QBs 4 to a 4x4 for years till bar lights got their pricing to be reasonable.
SE7000 in 4x4
2 SE3000s in a 3x5
1 Marshydro FC4800 in a 3x3
1 mars hydro SP3000 in a 2x4
And 3 150 watt Viparspecta XS1500s in a 2.5 x5
LED gardener shows the XS1500 blows the doors off a 2x2 18 inches is perfect in 2x2
I think the only time you wouldn't want uniformity is when you have one or 2 plants in the middle and that's a waste of space imo uniformity is king lol unless you are putting companion plants in the lower par empty areas around your main plants then I guess why not go for efficiency over uniformity but uniformity will make things way more simple
@@HolaEspanyol I fill up every inch of my grow spaces with plant canopy. So uniformity is key. Most modern LEDs are all similar in efficiency especially if using top end components. But the uniformity is where slot of similar builds with similar efficiencies can be lacking. Now with that said LEDs have pretty much plateaued with efficiency with the use of say Samsung LM301b and H chips. If manufacturers wanna compete aggressively for our business they gotta step outside the cookies cutter basic 3000k 5000k 660red combo and get with the spectrum tuning like some manufacturers are doing and have been doing. Example Kind X420 x750 , Optic LED and Synce LED are leap frogging the competition.
@@timpage5021 I was talking about change in efficiency as you change the hanging height (for example low hanging height with 10% on dimmer being more efficient than 100% higher up) but I couldn't agree more even spread is key especially if you use a scrog net which I think you do as it's easiest way to fill canopy at same height.
What's the prices on those lights please☘️🙏🇮🇪
@@roostersalukisandpitbulls4305 SE7000 799$
SE3000s 369$ each
Mars FC4800 560$
Mars SP3000 399$
Viparspecta XS1500 150$
Kind X420 595$
Kind X750 995$
Optic LED 720S 1400$
Synce Raging Kush 2.O 1400$
With migro array 2 pro do you recommend keeping height at 18cm for autoflower and what dimmer settings do you suggest in each stage for autoflower. Can you release par maps for each dimmer number or is it as simple as 50% on dimmer will half all numbers on map at same height
Hi, the dimmer settings are in the online manual here: migrolight.com/pages/migro-aray-instruction-manual-datasheet
Yes the Dimming is almost linear so 50% on the dimmer is about 50% PAR output
@@MIGROLIGHT thank you for the very speedy reply I love the light but was definitely pushing the plants too much I put one outside today and it started praying so I knew it wasn't the plants it was the biggest pest in the tent (me) love the light keep up the good work on the channel
That's why I get a bit dissapointed with the par tests, we need real world scenarios.
Have an even spread in a 4x4 and 5x5 and those numbers are the real efficacy.
What am I going to sprout a seed in the corner of a 4x4 while the middle needs CO2 because it's hitting 1200 flowering? We need even spread and real world numbers full stop
What do you think about using an infra red thermometer to check temp of canopy? Not exact but trying to keep leaves within a couple of degrees of ambient temp for stomata max suckage? Your channel is amazing. Thank you
Hi,
Checking leaf temps is a good practice, a lot of growers swear by it.
lunatek 600 pro 2.9 grazie
i have a light that i can set the PAR via adjustments so what is the recommended distance i should hang the light off the canopy for seedling. veg and flower?
200 to 300 for seedling, 400 early veg to 600 late veg, 700 early flower to 1000 late flower.
Use these numbers as a guide to dial in your light, this is with no co2 supplementation.
Thanks.
Great video as usual, information thy name is shane
got one 240w light using 2000 diodes and another 240w using only 500 of the same diodes..obviously have the one with more closer but it wont grow a taller plant .. like ive asked on every video whats the par at 4 foot..the canopy will always be great numbers.but am sure at 4 foot the one using more diodes will be utter rubbish
Any lights you can recommend that have their own supports (do not need to be hung?)
Attila, other than very small 'kitchen herb/leafy green' type lights (20 to 30 watts) on Amazon I cannot think of any.
so your 3 bar... 6inch to 9 inch?
also, would running x3 3 bars in a 2x1m space at the recommended hight on a lower power become more efficient than the recommended x2 3 bars at a higher height? i hope that made sense! thanks
The ARAY 3 is 7 inch minimum for max efficiency but you could raise up to about 11 inches and maximise uniformity with only about 10% less efficiency.
almost successfully grown a cucumber under 130k lux in a hydroponic system.
From practical experience I will say that the allowable distance depends entirely on the temperature of the air zone. if ventilation is sufficient, then the leaves begin to burn only in the immediate vicinity of 1-5 cm
3x3 with se 3000 led
Flower at 18 inches @100%
2- 5 gallon pots
Any suggestions or am I good? Thank You in advance. Definitely Subbed 💯
What’s app? Thank You but I’ve heard bad things about the app but thank you for the offer I really really appreciate it but I don’t use what’s app
@@PoliPopo
It's a scam, my friend
@@davedennison7386 Yussir thank You 🙏
Hello i have 4 , 450 watt quantum boards basically full coverage of my 5x5 canopy 1 per plant at 35% power . I couldnt think of a way to get a more even spread . Any thoughts ?
Sounds like a way to do it, I'm running two 100 watt quantum boards in my small space and it's giving even coverage I'm at about 30 inches above plants at moment and they are responding well.
Why can 1000 ppfd make it to much with led but when in full sun it's easily 2000 ppfd?
Do you measure distance from the floor or from the top of the soil/growing medium?
From top of plant canopy to underside of Grow light
💡
What should the readings be on a quantum lux meter for grow I burnt my leaves 2x 200watt @ 420 micro mil each
Hi,
It depends on your lux meter and how accurate it is.
Thanks.
@@MIGROLIGHT it is a spot on one
Oh yes🤗🤗😁😁🤗🤗😁😁👏👏👏
Hang them high and turn them up. It works for me. Led of course.
I'm so f'n tired of having over 1000 options for literally every product I want to buy. What a bloody nightmare. Unless the product you're selling is top notch quality you shouldn't even be able to sell it. You got 700watt lights that range from $200 to $2000. Like how stupid.
If an optimal height is determined at 100% power, does the uniformity remain more or less the same, as the light is dimmed?
Hi,
Yes it does.
Thanks.
@@MIGROLIGHT Ok great, that will make it quicker to make my PAR maps and determine the optimal height...thanks Shane!
i like my lights at 80 percent power
I have a viparspectra xs4000 in a 2x4. Supposedly it’s for a larger area. They say hang at 18-24. So I’m not sure where to hang mine
I think 20" wouldn't be a bad starting point.
Because you look like you grow loads bro
Good God😂
I bought the GeekBeast light that you consider a top value. The one I ordered was supposed to be for Flowering. (weather it was or not, I don't know.) I ordered the longer driver cord and the 240 plug neither cam with the order. When I contacted them, they said that was too bad. It would be nice if companies made lights specially for either grow or Flower. Also it would be nice if you said something about Customer Service as anyone who ever dealt with Spider Farmer, there is no such thing.
I think HLG has lights for veg and flower. The R spec is for flower and the B spec is for Veg. I'm pretty sure anyway.
Spider farmer has the WORST CUSTOMER SERVICE 👍
@@terryt2728yes sir. That’s what I use. Supporting local like always.
8:55 16 inches are not 45cm but 40.5cm
Why will numbers over 1,000 PAR cause light burn but not with CO2? does CO2 prevent burn?
Photosynthesis is increased with co2 at levels of 999 to 1500ppm of co2... hence you need less DLI
@WhatsApp ㊉①(③②③)⑤⑤③⓪⑥⑧⑥ 🤖of migro, nobody falls for that bud.. i cannot believe you chose this guy to mimic pretend to be... ha.
@@dertythegrower thank you!
Based on doing cuttings of the same plant would render bar lights useless most people are doing seeds these days that would buy these lights
However the HLG style lights give you a bigger scope as hanging height is more forgiving
Me my self own a sf 7000 similar in design but not the best spectrum for flowering so I added 250 watt osram hps and turned led down to 70% and what a difference in a 3x3 prior to that had spectrum king sk-600 before that I had 2 600s in cool tubes so changed days
I’m using an HLG 350R my seedlings are a week old they recommended the dial at 2-3 at 24-30 inches above. Do you agree or have any tips?
@@jhonwayne1003 I would just keep and eye on them check every 4 hours to see any positive or negative affects just make sure your humidity above 70%, best way is to keep them in a clone dome with vents open dont over water best of luck
@@jimmack3968 I fed the AN for the first time last night 1ml. They look good. How long would you say leave them in the dome? I also have a heat mat under them. Humidity is def above 70.
@@jhonwayne1003 I try to leave them in the dome till first set true leave are developed. However try to keep the entire grow room at 70% humidity when they are exsposed and you should see explosive growth. A good rule of thumb if the leaves are up and thirving your in the right light intensity remember with leds I would maintain 84f temperature hope that helps.
So Sanlight refused to pay you.?
600 rspec isnt a 5x5 light, simple as that. Not powerwise and not spreadwise. That just 260 watts/sqmeter
✌️✌️
I hardly understand your language, but is there a leaflet somewhere to read it? is that ok a marshydro 600 at 50cm from the top of the plant or should I lower it to 35cm? vegetarian 25days !
Years of experience lolz
The Scientist Medical Marijuana: Studying For a Higher Purpose Prof. Dr. Raphael Mechoulam
👍🏼🇮🇪🍀
Its always 420 somewhere :)
@@cbrmike69 exactly my friend ✌🏼🌱🌿🍁 always🍀
English Please
Bro, I know cotton mouth gets us all, but damn i can barely watch ur videos cus ur smackin ur chops , so pls get a drink, i need the knowledge ur preachin..lol
Don't forget to subscribe to LED Gardener Channel here: ua-cam.com/channels/rXV026HnrWO7gPWWmQAq1g.html
Feel very confident going into my next grow with my new migro array 2 in a 2x2. Good work Shane 👍🪴