Oh neat, didnt know that some of the ancient Sith lore like Naga Sadow was recanonized. Always loved the ancient Sith lore, it was very Tolkien and Silmarillion-esque.
On Exegol, The Red-Armoured Stormtroopers of Darth Sidious's Final Order had their legions named after Darth Revan, Darth Tenebrous, Darth Phobos, and Darth Desolous. The fortress that the Final Order's fleet was constructed under is in the Naga Sadow Valley. Also, in Shadow of the Sith, it is said Exegol was founded around the same time as Korriban, which would make sense in the context of old legends stories. And in the Clone Wars, Yoda visits the Valley of the Dark Lords on Korriban, with the statues of Marka Ragnos, Tulak Hord and Ajunta Pall. Awesome video to put out on my birthday! 🎂
That androgynous "sith" you're talking about in the Soule run is definitely the Kyber crystal itself, anthropomorphized. They might resemble a sith that wielded them, or the one that bled them, but I wouldn't count that as that sith.
the sith species is also canon... so I would imagine a "sith" lord has existed even before 5000 years before ANH unless the species was created during that time.
You didn't mention unknown founder of the Sith Order who's totally not Ajunta Pall. The ancient dates in canon are pretty much non-existent because they haven't told any stories there yet. I imagine a lot of dates and characters would change if someone wanted to make a movie there.
Heck being able to learn any information on the ancient Sith is very difficult because, of the law that prevents protocol droids from being able to read the sith language. Since that pretty much makes the job of historians who may have wanted to study this at the writings pretty much impossible.
I really hope we see some exar kun stuff, especially if he was around at the same time as Tanis. One thing canon does that I like a lot when bringing back legends material is they tend to have the characters who used to be undisputed top dogs have actual rivalries, usually with canon counterparts, and that's always just more interesting.
I kind of hope if they ever do show the first Sith Lord that it’s not just a human, Star Wars canon has a problem with making every important character be human for no reason. That’s why I liked in legends that all the first Sith were their own species, the species being named Sith was a little over the top though. I just hope if we ever see that far back that maybe the Jedi and Sith were both founded by non-human Jedi And Sith characters. There seem to be a lot of species more attuned to the force than others are and I think they should be the ones who started teaching others about the force, not just some random Human
This is a topic that I'm fairly confident Canon is just going to largely recycle from legends on. The sheer amount of names they've already recycled indicates to me at least that the storyboard at Lucasfilm is okay with how Legends established the sith order and don't want to heavily change it.
Let's be honest, wearing a mask imbued with the screams of your enemies that you've slaughtered is pretty awesome. That's a good way to scare off future enemies.
Disney has own Star Wars for over 10 years now and we still don’t have a canon old republic story? In the EU old republic stories were some of the first dark horse comic in tales of the Jedi which was released the same year the Thrawn trilogy ended. I’m not trying to be a hater but Disney makes it so hard.
If we get a movie or a TV show of the Sith ruling over Coruscant and how the Jedi were in their rebellion and barely surviving, then it would truly show the Sith when they were in their most powerful and prominent before the Jedi drove them off and put their temple on the Sith shrine.
I don't know if this is a hot take or not, but I honestly do not want a clear answer to the history of the SW galaxy. The fact that the ancient sith is a mystery is what makes them so exiting to me, and there are very big reasons their history would be forgotten by now. We know so little about our ancient past, and those ancient humans we're literally digging up to discover more about knew very little about the ancient humans of their past. The coolest thing I've read about recently is that the Egyptian the Pharaohs reign was so incredibly long that the ancient Egyptians had ancient Egyptian archaeologist digging up history about even even more ancient Egyptians, and that's a period of just around 5000 years. Compare that to the sith witch is at least 40.000 years if not way way older *and* spanned across a damn galaxy then of course there'll be lost records and destroyed library's. Information we can't ever get again. Only speculate over. And if anything the speculation over a lost history is something a fandom will burn for. I love the history over the ancient Dwemer of The Elder Scrolls, and much of it lies on the mystery of their disappearance and I feel the exact same way for Star Wars.
Just because it took place so long ago doesn’t mean it’s not worth exploring, especially if it can make for more new stories that don’t rely on the Skywalker era. It can still be an event forgotten by modern times, but I feel you can only make the ancient sith a mystery for so long as they’ve done before it gets tiresome. There’s so much to the culture and even hierarchy that can make for great storytelling. While we do have the High Republic era, we still could afford to branch out way more. As of now, the Skywalker era is a massive and somewhat ‘claustrophobic’ piece of the timeline, while every thing else feels so small in comparison. I’m not convinced that era is the only thing really worth exploring, and it feels like Lucasfilm is playing it too ‘safe’ by doing so. Relying on what’s familiar. Imagine exploring so many different eras from eons into the past and future, such variety and differences. It would truly ‘expand’ the universe, much like what Legends did. I agree that it’s impossible to record all of history, but that doesn’t mean we as viewers can’t witness the very beginnings of certain elements of Star Wars, such as the Sith.
I was off quite a bit in who it could be, so that's good to have more to look into. Now I wonder as well, who is the most ancient Force user/belief that isn't the Jedi or Sith for both Legends and Canon universes? Oh and are not the trinity of brother, sister, father.
I actually hope we never get a story taking place during the birth of the Sith. Maybe some stuff two hundred years after? Sometimes I think about Dune and about how the legend of the Butlerian Jihad was always more interesting than the actual story itself.
Darth Tanis, Darth Bane, Darth Revan, Naga Sadow,, Ommin, Darth Desolus, and a few others are held as canon due to being name dropped throughout Clone Wars (which technically Darth Andeddu was mentioned) and With trooper companies/battalions named after in the visual dictionary of Rise of Skywalker.
This in my opinion is the true Canon timeline: Dawn of the Jedi- the Je’daii are formed and are the earliest Jedi Old Republic- the beginning of the Republic, has the Jedi and Sith Wars, the Mandolorian wars and more. High Republic- the Republic in its exploration days and Golden age Rise of the Empire- era of the Prequels, Clone Wars, Rise of the Empire and more Rebellion- this is the time of the Original trilogy, and the Galactic Civil War at its highest point New Republic- The Empire is almost gone and a New Republic is formed, the Mandoverse is in this era New Jedi Order- this is what replaces the sequels Legacy- also replaces the Sequels Sequels suck so they aren’t canon
I’m happy they’re keeping the ancient history of the Jedi and Sith shrouded in mystery for now. There’s room for amazing storytelling there, but until we get that story I’d rather they not write themselves into a corner with post-hoc stories cementing certain past characters or events into place
Oh neat, didnt know that some of the ancient Sith lore like Naga Sadow was recanonized. Always loved the ancient Sith lore, it was very Tolkien and Silmarillion-esque.
On Exegol, The Red-Armoured Stormtroopers of Darth Sidious's Final Order had their legions named after Darth Revan, Darth Tenebrous, Darth Phobos, and Darth Desolous.
The fortress that the Final Order's fleet was constructed under is in the Naga Sadow Valley.
Also, in Shadow of the Sith, it is said Exegol was founded around the same time as Korriban, which would make sense in the context of old legends stories. And in the Clone Wars, Yoda visits the Valley of the Dark Lords on Korriban, with the statues of Marka Ragnos, Tulak Hord and Ajunta Pall.
Awesome video to put out on my birthday! 🎂
Happy birthday!
There's no sources for Dark Lord statues, where you found that?
seems both Jedi and Sith has have two of each Temples Ahch-To & Jedha , The Sith Exegol & Korriban/Moraband.
That androgynous "sith" you're talking about in the Soule run is definitely the Kyber crystal itself, anthropomorphized. They might resemble a sith that wielded them, or the one that bled them, but I wouldn't count that as that sith.
Hope we learn more about the Sith, they are some of the best parts of Star Wars
the sith species is also canon... so I would imagine a "sith" lord has existed even before 5000 years before ANH unless the species was created during that time.
Indeed. I could have sworn the Sith 'religion' was derived from the Sith species that existed before the Old Republic and the Jedi Order.
You didn't mention unknown founder of the Sith Order who's totally not Ajunta Pall. The ancient dates in canon are pretty much non-existent because they haven't told any stories there yet. I imagine a lot of dates and characters would change if someone wanted to make a movie there.
Lucasfilm: How ancient should we make the Sith?
Star Wars Writers: Yes.
Having sadow in canon is awesome as it also connects the not yet canon SWTOR 😊❤
Heck being able to learn any information on the ancient Sith is very difficult because, of the law that prevents protocol droids from being able to read the sith language.
Since that pretty much makes the job of historians who may have wanted to study this at the writings pretty much impossible.
Because organic linguists don’t exist?
I really hope we see some exar kun stuff, especially if he was around at the same time as Tanis. One thing canon does that I like a lot when bringing back legends material is they tend to have the characters who used to be undisputed top dogs have actual rivalries, usually with canon counterparts, and that's always just more interesting.
I think you left out two great candidates for this position, Darth Sanguis and Darth Noctyss. They are also found in proper stories.
Isn't Revan kind of canon, since his name is mentioned in the form of the Revan Legion in Rise of Skywalker?
As far as I know, yes.
He’s not even close to being to oldest - revan’s like around ~3500 bby and most of these take place at least ~5000 bby
@@nolandrummond5641 no one said he was the oldest, and that time is legends, not canon.
Revan was a Jedi
@@incap6038 He was both
Another amazing video
The sith emperor was referenced in the Coruscant (Star Wars Encyclopedia).
However, it's unknown if he's really vitiate.
I kind of hope if they ever do show the first Sith Lord that it’s not just a human, Star Wars canon has a problem with making every important character be human for no reason. That’s why I liked in legends that all the first Sith were their own species, the species being named Sith was a little over the top though. I just hope if we ever see that far back that maybe the Jedi and Sith were both founded by non-human Jedi And Sith characters. There seem to be a lot of species more attuned to the force than others are and I think they should be the ones who started teaching others about the force, not just some random Human
Star Wars explained make one about the Jedi as well
This is a topic that I'm fairly confident Canon is just going to largely recycle from legends on. The sheer amount of names they've already recycled indicates to me at least that the storyboard at Lucasfilm is okay with how Legends established the sith order and don't want to heavily change it.
Let's be honest, wearing a mask imbued with the screams of your enemies that you've slaughtered is pretty awesome.
That's a good way to scare off future enemies.
Disney has own Star Wars for over 10 years now and we still don’t have a canon old republic story? In the EU old republic stories were some of the first dark horse comic in tales of the Jedi which was released the same year the Thrawn trilogy ended. I’m not trying to be a hater but Disney makes it so hard.
If we get a movie or a TV show of the Sith ruling over Coruscant and how the Jedi were in their rebellion and barely surviving, then it would truly show the Sith when they were in their most powerful and prominent before the Jedi drove them off and put their temple on the Sith shrine.
Interesting video, I hope we will have more information about older Sith in the Acolyte series.
Darth krall seems to be much older than momin and lady Shia
I don't know if this is a hot take or not, but I honestly do not want a clear answer to the history of the SW galaxy. The fact that the ancient sith is a mystery is what makes them so exiting to me, and there are very big reasons their history would be forgotten by now.
We know so little about our ancient past, and those ancient humans we're literally digging up to discover more about knew very little about the ancient humans of their past.
The coolest thing I've read about recently is that the Egyptian the Pharaohs reign was so incredibly long that the ancient Egyptians had ancient Egyptian archaeologist digging up history about even even more ancient Egyptians, and that's a period of just around 5000 years.
Compare that to the sith witch is at least 40.000 years if not way way older *and* spanned across a damn galaxy then of course there'll be lost records and destroyed library's. Information we can't ever get again. Only speculate over. And if anything the speculation over a lost history is something a fandom will burn for. I love the history over the ancient Dwemer of The Elder Scrolls, and much of it lies on the mystery of their disappearance and I feel the exact same way for Star Wars.
Just because it took place so long ago doesn’t mean it’s not worth exploring, especially if it can make for more new stories that don’t rely on the Skywalker era. It can still be an event forgotten by modern times, but I feel you can only make the ancient sith a mystery for so long as they’ve done before it gets tiresome. There’s so much to the culture and even hierarchy that can make for great storytelling.
While we do have the High Republic era, we still could afford to branch out way more. As of now, the Skywalker era is a massive and somewhat ‘claustrophobic’ piece of the timeline, while every thing else feels so small in comparison. I’m not convinced that era is the only thing really worth exploring, and it feels like Lucasfilm is playing it too ‘safe’ by doing so. Relying on what’s familiar.
Imagine exploring so many different eras from eons into the past and future, such variety and differences. It would truly ‘expand’ the universe, much like what Legends did. I agree that it’s impossible to record all of history, but that doesn’t mean we as viewers can’t witness the very beginnings of certain elements of Star Wars, such as the Sith.
I was off quite a bit in who it could be, so that's good to have more to look into. Now I wonder as well, who is the most ancient Force user/belief that isn't the Jedi or Sith for both Legends and Canon universes? Oh and are not the trinity of brother, sister, father.
I actually hope we never get a story taking place during the birth of the Sith. Maybe some stuff two hundred years after?
Sometimes I think about Dune and about how the legend of the Butlerian Jihad was always more interesting than the actual story itself.
To be fair, KJA is not a very good author and should not have been allowed to do the things he did. 🙃
Darth Tanis, Darth Bane, Darth Revan, Naga Sadow,, Ommin, Darth Desolus, and a few others are held as canon due to being name dropped throughout Clone Wars (which technically Darth Andeddu was mentioned) and With trooper companies/battalions named after in the visual dictionary of Rise of Skywalker.
Did you say Darth Moomin?
What about the 4 most known and really ancient Sith Lords, Marko Ragnos, Ludo Kressh, Ajunta Pall and Naga Sadow?
What about Darth Caldoth? He seem to be very ancient.
This in my opinion is the true Canon timeline:
Dawn of the Jedi- the Je’daii are formed and are the earliest Jedi
Old Republic- the beginning of the Republic, has the Jedi and Sith Wars, the Mandolorian wars and more.
High Republic- the Republic in its exploration days and Golden age
Rise of the Empire- era of the Prequels, Clone Wars, Rise of the Empire and more
Rebellion- this is the time of the Original trilogy, and the Galactic Civil War at its highest point
New Republic- The Empire is almost gone and a New Republic is formed, the Mandoverse is in this era
New Jedi Order- this is what replaces the sequels
Legacy- also replaces the Sequels
Sequels suck so they aren’t canon
The Acolyte will be probably shed more light on this
We need more ancient sith like if revan is canon canon now
First, like this with lord in cannon
On 0:48 seconds, you cna see a Sith lord that looks remarkable just like Darth Nihilus, maybe it is him or something that looks like him.
Life is super sad
It’s funny how Valkorion is became the best Sith Lord by transcending the whole Jedi/Sith thing the Jedi or Sith conventions
I’m actually tilted about this lol. Does anyone know anything about Star Wars anymore? Where’s the boys at
Naga shadow is definitely canon yes they are sources but come on Alex none of the stories retconned that out
I don’t care about Star Wars canon anymore. Except my own head canon.
I’m happy they’re keeping the ancient history of the Jedi and Sith shrouded in mystery for now. There’s room for amazing storytelling there, but until we get that story I’d rather they not write themselves into a corner with post-hoc stories cementing certain past characters or events into place
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