I can finally keep up playing just a few hours a week. I have a toddler and kid on the way. I just want to be able to keep up with my raid team. We run heroic, nothing crazy. 4 hours a week. I’m down with it.
I can’t think of a single game I’ve ever played that I felt like a timer made it more enjoyable for me. I dislike it so much that I completely understand I’m likely an exception though.
Indeed, I can't stand timed stuff. It's just another part of the ubiquitous, capitalist delusion that a persons worth is based solely on their productivity. It has no place in a game which is supposed to be fun.
@trollnerd6522 You still have to follow the mechanics because you get one shot if you don’t, it’s not face roll. This is why I think tanking Brann would be a good idea, that way other classes/roles can also do that if they are dedicated enough. I think that’s what higher tier delves should be, a thing where you follow the mechanics and time everything right rather than constantly waiting between defensive cooldowns because of incoming white damage.
I am firmly within the Delve demographic. I was over the moon I could get a single piece of Hero track a week, with a random map Hero piece here and there. I am perfectly content with where the gear landed, I don't have any need for Gilded Crests or Myth track. Delves need more work (glares at Brann) but the gear/power is not on the top 100 Delve problem list. Also 11.1 companion will be a goblin methinks.
Honestly I'd love for it to be Harrison Jones in 11.1. He needs to make a comeback and this seems like the perfect moment. Exploring dangerous delves sounds right up his alley. My next guess would be the new guy in the fedora at the delves hub in Dornogal - Jackson something.
@@alphaking32 nah, it's generally the kids crying about toxic keys that just want to get carried and completely disrespect other people's time for a key.
I agree, they only have themselves to blame, breaking into M+ sucks ass, toxic impatient players are all to common. There is no willingness to help people to learn mechanics or the tips and tricks learned over a great many runs. It's join, pump and don't take any damage or your kicked or they leave, its just not fun frankly. More so in wow than any other game, and I have played most of them to end content.
the M+ players so salty that people are enjoying delves is hilarious to me. Some people just want to get home and be apart of a world, enjoy the story or ambience, explore, RP, collect, and have -fun-. This is a roleplaying game after all, not an e-sport, and it never will be no matter how hard blizzard pushes it as one.
I play M+ and I have never heard a single person complain about delves being easy loot. Everyone likes easy loot. This is a game we play, where tribal notions get put forth, that don't really exist in reality.
Delves is keeping the people who never wanted to do M+ away, and that's fine. I've done M+ ever since they became available so I could avoid raiding drama, and now I do delves to avoid M+. I'm happy as things are now. I seem to remember people thinking M+ would ruin raiding, and that didn't happen. I think delves are great and should stay as is
Why is it that some players get upset over others getting equipment a bit easier now to improve their game play? Is it such an ego trip that you have it and others don't or must work harder to achieve what you did? I'm 99% casual solo and I don't care to socialize when I play WoW! I don't care for M+, I don't care to do dungeon runs or raids where some noxious individual doesn't like how I play my character of the moment. I'm casual which means I set my own time during the day. I love the follower dungeons. I love the delves, so stop trying to have me play your way.
It's an pride attitude people have. Instead of working together to have fun and succeed, they want numbers to show off. People want to validate themselves with numeric achievements instead of playing to have fun and the numbers coming on the side. Thats why M+ gets so toxic in pugs at times. People feel their worth is being invalidated due to mistakes of others. Or their own mistakes, which happen to everyone. So if someone else is getting free gear, free numeric value to show off? Yea, that's a problem in that mindset.
@@julianahavart WoW has always had the most petulant player base I've ever encountered. Other classes that needed dev attention getting attention sends players of other classes into meltdown with things said like "Um, when the hell are you going to fix my class? This wasn't even needed for *insert class they don't care about*" in the announcement threads for buffs. IDK what it is but they act as though anyone else getting nice things or attention means there's less of Dev Daddy's love they're going to get. WoW players are basically the jealous sibling seething when their brothers and sisters have birthdays. It's basically safe to dismiss 75% of complaints as infantile selfish masturbation.
Yeah, I finally got my wife to come back and try WoW again and she's actually having fun just doing duo delves. She was driven away in the past because just doing levelling dungeons randoms were such assholes to her. To this day she has panic attacks if we try dungeons or even LFR, not because of the content but because of how other players treated her in the past. And she's a normal well-adjusted person just new to video games, not some anxiety ridden bubble girl as sometimes you see having meltdowns over non-issues. I probably wouldn't play WoW anymore without delves, they've been that much of a boon for how we play. I'm not a total shitter, I've done heroic raiding, KSM, 1900ish rpvp just to get the mogs, I just don't really care about dealing with most other players I'm not IRL friends with anymore.
Something I'd love to see for future delve features would be a *choice* of companions. This would be a longer-term thing since I'm sure each companion's a good amount of work to implement, but over time as we build up a roster, it'd be cool to be able to pick who we bring with us. I love your historical timewalking delve idea, too. And if we did get delves in legacy zones, a portal room like we get for M+ dungeons from prior expansions would be nice. Also, as someone who really likes delves, I agree about the myth track gear. I think it's fine for myth track gear to be really difficult to achieve and something that comes primarily or exclusively from group content. IMO delves don't need to offer myth track gear to be worth it long-term.
They teased in the future we could use an alt as companion. I like this idea ALOT. This idea is not final or mean its gonna be implemented, but i like it alot it exists.
@@Eldun Using alts would be really cool! It'd be rad to use them as companions for follower dungeons, too, really drive home the idea that your warband are a bunch of characters who know each other and work together.
@@AgentNoun that would be pretty neat, or a token which lets you take one additional NPC with you for that run. Could be rare drops from coffers or something.
If it turned into a forced shared experience with its current player base, then I'd have either be in a Guild that I like the non-toxic people, or just do the story related content and call it a day. I will not play with toxic jerks, nor do I enjoy running through instances as fast as possible, taking shortcuts, and hopping over areas in the map.
The whole rush mentality killed it for me. There is no time to enjoy anything. It's a rat race as if I am working at the stock exchange or everything else in society. And that creates unhappy people that just want to be better than others without enjoying anything.
I did my first pugged 5-player Delve earlier. Overpulling, unnecessary pulling, standing in the fire, made M+ feel chilled..and yes I was the healer..went back to soloing T8's as Elemental
If M+ players feel forced to play Delves then that's their problem. They shouldn't be allowed a voice to change Delves because they won't be there long. I've played solo 99% of the time since Wrath. The Delves are for Casuals like me. They've said for years that we don't belong in Endgame content and gatekept participation. LFG is super toxic and not fun when the tank is pulling the whole dungeon. I want to actually play my class not just shoot Ice Lance while running. Delves have helped me become a better player because I have to use my entire toolkit. WoW needs Casuals to keep money coming in. People have left for years because of how toxic the Dungeon and Raiding community can be. Money talks and the changes in Dragonflight and TWW has brought people back. I've loved Follower Dungeons too. I finally get to actually experience the story.
The only solution to that problem is to make delves less rewarding. People who are forced to take part in content they don't want to because of the rewards being too good have a real problem that has to be addressed. No other form of endgame gear guarantees everyone who completes it gets loot. It's just objectively better for gearing up than anything else, which is a problem in game balance.
Delves really help getting better with your class and talent choices. I get the time to experiment, try out and learn. No way I can do that in a dungeon run especially m+. You need to play perfect and have the meta build or you get shamed and blamed.
@@daniellucas5522I don’t think delve rewards need to drop. But Mythic + needs to increase its reward level. Outside of getting your BIS items, there’s almost no reason to engage in Mythic + at the moment if you’re a heroic raider. For how agonizing some of the higher keys are the fact that a 7 drops 610 hero is abysmal.
90% of the game is solo content anyway. I've always just wanted a difficulty somewhere between "autobattler" and "soulsborne." Delves have so far ramped up enough that they fit that goal without having toxic dungeon runners blitz through to the end.
To be honest PUGing has been a nightmare for me for years as every role. I love delves for the fact that I can go through at my own pace not needing to worry about timers, worrying if I’m busting someone else’s key, or wondering if I will be selected for any groups. The only time I run M+ this season is if someone in my guild, at least two other guild members are running with me. I can see some of the issues with people trying to “ice skate uphill” but you can use the rating system to at least see what people have done before coming into a M+ group.
I’m done pugging permanently. Even when it goes well as a healer it’s still far too much stress. Too many incompetent DPS that don’t use defensives or interrupts.
i totally agree with you on this. pugging is a nightmare 9 out of 10 times, it's either people not knowing mechanics and not reading chat, or people wiping 2 times in a +3 and then instantly disband. i also don't believe i have ever encountered that many bad tanks in groups.
you know that running 10s with friends is easier than pugging 3s with people who don't know what's happening in the dungeon, right? i figured a nerd would be able to read but ey, trolls be trolls
Its so strange to me that you would say something like this. Why on earth would you care about who does what content, and why would you pass judgment on people who like content you don't? Delves are solo content, so it literally doesn't matter who else does them.
They're not. Why in the world would I farm champion track gear when I can go farm hero track gear? It's just a waste of my time. The keys mean nothing for m+ players because it's just a less effective gearing solution.
Since start of BFA M+ has been an solo experience for me. As the expansions progressed the communication in pugs has steady decreased. Nowadays I am very happy if get a reply on my hello. The most I hear from the other 4 players in my group is when something goes wrong and the insults start. And this is why I will always choose delves of the toxicity of a pug M+. Therefor in my honest opinion the M+ community has no one else to blame then them self, for the decline of players.
Delves are the best thing since sliced bread. I do them solo most of the time late at night, when no one on my fl is online. People complaining about them being "too easy" or provide too high ilvl items just want to gatekeep their precious higher tier loot. I personally do not "need" delves, we should clear heroic next week and I complete M+ achievements for the portals and mount each season, so gear from delves is a non-topic for me, but I enjoy them quite a bit as a fun little extra game loop I can play. Delves should get higher tiers with scaling loot going forward. Those top level delves should be limited to a few runs per week however, so no one can spam them for endless gear.
I would love to see Brann as tank too for those that wants to do it as healer. I know you can do it as healer with Brann as dps. I have done it my self many times. but as you said..... having the option is great. ps. I love Delves. well I don´t like some of them. but in general I love Delves. I love the idea that I´m not forced to do the m+ for gear.
I don't like the mushrooms but I still do the delve. I really hate all that jumping around, and since I have 15 alts that can do that delve says a lot. Still I would rather slit my arms then do group stuff. Give me those npcs in the follower dungeons that don't say snarky toxic stuff and I'm happy.
@@scorpogee6280 lol... same here... I hate the mushroom delve and the one where you walk in the darkness. Not the candle one, but the one where the whole delve is in darkness. The candle one in my favorite
@scorpogee6280 I hate fungal folly, it's the only one I actively avoid. The spider ones are my favourite, they're pretty fast and no need to mess around with side mechanics like candles or air supply.
@18:29 is such truth. When I started playing WoW in BC, tanks would mark targets and call out for sheep’s/saps/traps/etc on those mobs. I know this went away partly when you could just AoE stuff down, but that level of communication is still so rare even in content that merits it nowadays.
I would like to see more puzzles in delves and fewer/less powerful mobs. That would balance it out more for me. Currently, I'm farming 8s like crazy, because they give the highest gear you can get, which can be upgraded further. The difference between an 8 and 9 is significant enough that 9s are too much of a hassle just to save a few tokens for upgrades. I would also like to see a general gear token drop added to delves instead of actual gear drops, because I'm tired of getting trinkets I can't use. I need some gloves, dammit! Either that or have a currency (I know, *puke*) drop from 8s and higher to buy a piece of gear. Limit it to one per week and we goochie.
I for one LOVE the puzzles and mind tricks. I'd love to see like a Harry potter battle chess or something maybe even pet battles for new paths or buffs
I don’t think MMOs should be forced group content, but I think the group content on offer should feel more rewarding than stressful. As it stands (for me anyway) Delves are the only endgame content where I feel my time and energy is properly rewarded without having to temper my enjoyment with stress or bad attitudes. M+ and raiding are much more time-consuming and are either enjoyable but not rewarding, or are rewarding but too stressful to enjoy.
Essentially what you are asking is to have ff14 system here, assholes are banned immediately. Me too brother, me too. That sadly requires active gm's, which wow do not have.
The real issue is partially the cap on runed crests being so easy to hit, and then not getting gilded until 9. There's a really big gap in the middle where there's very little incentive to complete because you're not going to realistically get crests. Unless you are doing mythic raids where you can get gilded crests, it's really hard to get to 9 dungeons to get them as a healer or tank.
I love Delves. Literally gives me a gearing path I enjoy. Usually i eventually get some decent gear but I always end up relying on time walking raid reward or do 5 dungeons. But delves have kept me interested and playing. Plus now I am gearing up new characters and doing even more per week on multiple characters.
My personal feeling is not caring that i can’t get each piece to 6/6. Would be nice? Sure, but i wont lose sleep. As long as i can kill hard Zekvir solo, i am happy.
The problem isn't so much with delves, its that they nerfed m+ rewards too. It was much easier to get to myth level gear in dragonflight. Now with delves, all the lower tier m+ feels pointless.
Just a pedantic comment, but Delves already can reward Gilded, although admittedly it is just a trickle. Even so, I just recently got enough Gilded from delvers maps, to pop my weapon to ilvl623, and may even get enough to fully max it out 6/6 Hero track. Not too shabby from only playing Delves solo.
@@tonyr6180 i didnt keep count, but because of the number of Runed Crests given, I just assumed it was 2 Gilded per Delve map run. But it's gotta be 2-3 per, since I got 3 on each of my last 2 map runs.
Always gotten 3 gilded from maps, but map drops are very fickle. Had 3 on my main last reset and 0 so far this reset. I average around 3 delves a day with the time I currently have to play. I believe they worked out you have around 1 in 12 chance for a map, seems plausible l...
Indeed, I'd like a proper tank version then I can focus more on the mechanics rather than getting peeved off because of frigging melee being in my face all the time, not only is it annoying on squishy characters like my priest but it also limits the difficulty I'd like to go up to.
@@Tijuanabill Try that on a higher difficulty, above a certain tier he is completely ineffective at it. He was good earlier as he put out really high damage in his DPS mode, but post nerf he just isn't the same.
Try to pug tank dungeons is a nightmare being able to just progress solo or non traditional groups is amazing. I want to see the delve endgame fleshed out make zekvirs lair or future equivalent more interesting than just hard boss. Maybe it has a monthly modifier and weekly completion that rewards some gilded crests. Time walk delves could be cool doing events from rpg lore or books would be really ideal for this imo.
As a raider that hates M+, the same way M+ crashed raiding when introduced in Legion by giving out the same rewards, Delves shouldn't be nerfed for doing just the same. I don't want to partake in M+ to get gear just to be able to do the content that i enjoy, which is raiding. Let us have our cake, you do M+ and we do Delves.
Nicely done as usual. I agree with everyone that said...No toxic people, please. I enjoy Bran telling me to move...it must be the accent....I can not think of anyone that would be a good replacement for Bran. He is the explorer, and he also forgets to move out of the blast zone himself...I like that.
I have found the delves to be terrific to bridge that gap we had between open world veteran gear and M+ gear. It allows me to be able, with my limited time, to gear something that I can participate in M+.
Totally agree. Hide the myth track gear behind high keys and difficult raid difficulties. No reason why we can earn champion and occasional hero track gear in delves.
I haven’t had that problem yet. I’ve actually been surprised how many groups I’ve had wipe multiple times and finish even after the timer ran out. 🤷♂️
I don't even mind that, the worst is when people who feel like they are entitled to rewards they or aren't getting yet and or cant' get that they aren't good enough and no one is gonna carry them every run, who are SUPER ANGRY before the run even starts, makes me not wanna play
I reckon new delve companion could be a character like Flynn or Gazlowe who have been gratuitously brought back in TWW. They aren’t a main part of the current story as you mentioned but are well known characters from the past.
Mythic Plus SHOULD be awesome but content creators and Bilzzard's greed have ruined them. The community is toxic. If you aren't Meta and you didn't feverishly pump up your IO score during the first week you get kicked to the curb. Sure, you can run with your guild on another set schedule like for raids etc. blah, blah, blah but there SHOULD be a Dungeon Finder option for running keys - those that prefer pre-made groups can just keep doing it as is. Why do you think half of chat is for carries for gold? It's because of the toxic community enabled by content creators and their class / spec ratings combined with the biggest culprit - Blizzard and it's desire to sell gold tokens for $20 a pop. Greed always wins the day. If you try to PUG Mythic plus as a DPS you have to allocate about an hour per key by the time you form / get accepted into a group and then run it. Even then don't dare wipe a couple of times or someone will leave the group breaking the key and you have to start the process all over again. So - if you don't have a regular Mythic group to run with getting your 4 keys in (timed or not) will take at least 5-6 hours - maybe longer. Absolutely ridiculous and it's easily THE most frustrating experience in the game. Just give us a 'Mythic Finder" with a min IL per key level and have a big leaver penalty for those who bounce before the timer expires. If someone leaves and we tagged the key for 'completion' let us add a new player to fill that spot. They are already doing this for Heroic Dungeons so we know it can easily be implemented. If you are a 'l33t epeen' player just move along - none of the above applies to or will affect you.
I don't really get this mentality. You don't need any score at all, to get invited to a 2. The 2 gives you the score you need, to do a 3, and so on. The score is the proof you can do the key, and if you don't have the score, that's not the fault of others, to just trust that you can do it. Also, you can form your own group as well, and invite whoever you want.
Next season's delve companion will for sure just be one of the other explorer's league characters. Reno, Elise, or Sir Finley. They're already right there next to Brann, so he'll probably just switch places with one of them.
I had a simple +2. It was Grim Batol. I wanted to check out the Dungeon, the Routes, the Mobs and Bosses. There was this one Hunter, I don't know what he played, but instead of helping me kiting (Frost Trap or Oil Trap) he decided to go for his Bomb Trap and we did NOT make the Timer. Everyone else, helped me with kiting, since Blizzard had the GLORIOUS idea to nerf Tank-CDs so hard, that I feel the Differences. Ofcourse, we didn't time it. But no one complaint about it, since it was just a 2 and Grim Batol is definitely the hardest Dungeon this Season. And Mr. Hunter, instead of being polite and thinking, that it was a simple +2, at the end of the Dungeon, decided to blame ME and that I was an Aweful tank, despite the fact, that I did a +4 and a +3 in other dungeons the same week. Timed those even and up-graded those keys with ++. Or instead of that, possibly think, that I may or may not be a Newbie and say, "Hey, you made a few mistakes here and there." he blamingly told me, "Stop Tanking, you are SHIT". While I was sitting there, thinking to myself - "Welp... Thats why I do Solo Level 10 Delves. If I make a MIstake, I can only blame myself but still have fun doing those."
So my wife wanted to try tanking this season on her druid. And something I quickly realized was how much i take for granted being a long long time player. Tanking is entirely dependent on experience to speed up how quickly you adapt. As a dps player for example pulling more around her defensives is just alien and she struggles with it. I wish the WoW community was more welcoming
So this is how M+ goes for me. I spend about ten minutes finding a group or so and at the first sign of any problems, people just leave quietly or very loudly. Normally trying to blame X&Y player and action, when themselves aren't doing what they need to do.
That's the toxic player base fault not blizzards.... the whole reason delves were added is for people who quit and are done with the toxicity. Go play classic hardcore for a bit, the community is literally polar opposite. Nice, friendly, and a death there is permanent.
Ya, i havent ran a single key this season. And I was, up until now, a mythic plus and heroic raider. Now, thank the fates, we have delves. And my man, other than in guild runs and premades. I have, since the birth of m+, never seen a oug with a party leader who gave any direction.
if they scale it right that'd be fun. like, a delve involving a prison riot in the stockades! or taking out some random hidden Twilight Cultist cave! or even a cave full of snails who shoot lasers.
So, if, BIG IF, we get what it seems like we'll get, which is the Harronir's home zone + Undermine as a two zone patch, with Undermine also being the raid, and the Root Home being constantly assaulted by goblins harvesting for resources... I could see the storyline adjacent delve companion being Gazlowe, with a bomb throwing DPS spec, and his mech backpack rocking Tank spec.
I really don't like needing keys in the first place. I guess it's good that I can stockpile them if I don't want to run anything some weeks, but I'd rather just get my first 4 delves each week giving an extra chest instead. And personally, I'm really not happy with m+ right now. So I'm just delving and raid logging.
The solo delve option is literally the best thing they could've added. And make it relevant in terms of gear is why i subbed for a whole year for once in a expansion
Delve companions are going to be explorers not faction leaders.... thats the whole point of exploration. If we get anyone its going to be someone from the explorers league or maybe someone like Harrison jones
I love delves. Really enjoying having them as a way to get access to different tints of the class sets and something to do in game to progress through. I'd be happy just getting my hero track gear to 5/6 never mind 6/6. The lack of access to gilded crests is my one big gripe with delves at the moment. I like your time gated purchase idea a lot. Because as it stands now I'm stuck running 45 tier 8 delves per Mythic appearance I want to unlock, and this is after I've spent enough runed crests to unlock the upgrade path. Your idea strikes a great balance between making delves just an easy way to farm crests vs. only making it available to people who have invested in delves as their main content of choice. I also think the gearing path is probably a bit too fast in delves, considering you can get 4 champion pieces per week even without having sandbagged keys before the season starts. But I've gotten a lot of dupes and am still running veteran PVP pieces in some slots, so maybe the gearing path is comparable with lower tiers of m+ now mythic dungeons are on a daily lockout rather than weekly. Delve gear maybe should be behind a currency system tho, like maybe enough for a 3rd of a champion piece in a a bountiful chest, with a 20ish % to actually drop a champion 3/8 piece as well. Maybe even season cap the currency so delves are an investment rather than an early season gear up pitstop for players who intend to do other content. If tuned properly it still makes delves a great bad luck protection mechanism for those players as well.
The only thing i would wish for Delves are a bit more Crests for finishing them. Maybe 5 instead of 2 although you can get 45 through the vault it would speed up a bit the upgrading of items. New Delves would be great, especially if they would be in the old world and they already mentioned that but i think thats way down the road.. Last point, better trinkets. I know the risk of forcing other content player into delves but the trinkets right now are aweful.
Love Delves, think runed crests should drop, or increase at tier 8 towards tier 11 , and maybe in season two with higher tiers of delves gilded. I Love it and am enjoying it every single time I am inside.
im a solo player pushed my own key to +11 , whats your point here ? just put more efforts ,improve your ui for procs awerness andchange dbm boss mechanic tracker so u can be more awave , per example put it near your hp bar since u check ur hp bar the most , you guys are the reason m+ players are toxic , u got into his key , put minimum effort while the guy come from work proly wanna push his key , and when he point out something you turn on your victim card and start looking at all m+ players the same and go vent on forums.
Delves are my favourite part of the expansion, though they should have been just solo from the start, focus all balancing around that. They should be difficult but rewarding, I do want to see a way to get mythic gear/crests from them even if its just the weekly vault. The mythic gear economy was already ruined when the made m+ 5 times easier than mythic raiding, there's no reason to punish the huge number of solo players.
I love Delves, they are a great addition. Ever since I've been doing them I've wanted a Stratholme Undead one, take me back to memories of soloing it at 70 in original BC trying to get the mount. As for people saying Delves take away from Mythics and the likes, that's a good thing IMO because I think it might mean that we start to see the return of the fun, sociable progression guilds.
I like what they did before live . Gave us a week to try out mythic 0 , delves up to level 3 , and heroicnfor nre dungeons . Then release main season patch after
My hope would be that since it’s easier to gear with Delves there would be a larger player base of 619 geared characters to pug the first few raid bosses on Mythic every week to get gilded crest and mythic gear drops.
The one thing that you missed with regards to details about M+ is that its not really the group leader who takes command of the group its the tank. The tank is the one who decides what is pulled and how fast it is pulled. That is what affects the key. The group leader really more so is just there to get people together.
Here thing thing, M+ takes 35-45 minutes and if you don’t complete you get nothing but 50g or someone in the group could possibly get a piece of loot. Now for delves there is no timer and you get keys which at t8 you have a better chance of getting a piece of gear . My point is you get more out of a delve vs doing an M+ but you need 7 or higher keys for m+ to upgrade you gear further
I'd like to see the delve system fleshed out a bit more. Even if you can now get heroic tier gear, the procurement and upgrade track seems needlessly gimped. Yes, it can be substantially slower than M+/raiding, but currently upgrading gear once you get heroic track items is near impossible for delvers. Maybe something down the lines of level 4-8 giving veteran level gear (only guaranteed from bountiful chest, otherwise RNG) + carved crests, amount of crests based on level. Bonus crests for bountiful delve based on number of remaining lives. Level 8 and above same with heroic gear and runed crests with highest level giving gilded crests to facilitate upgrading gear. The treasure maps would give mythic level gear and bonus gilded crests, but be much rarer (like one every 25 - 50 runs). Difficulty of the delves could be adjusted accordingly. Not saying this is the absolute way, but, especially delves have turned out to be so popular, they need some fleshing out.
Delves and ai companion dungeons for the win. Most of us don’t have the time or patience to deal with groups that will just be snobs and dump you if you make a mistake.
When you brought up Rexxar, that had me thinking back to the Founding of Durotar and if we would see Chen Stormstout since Rokhan represents the Trolls now. If they were going to bring in Chen though then that would have been a better tie in with Brewfest.
y'know, on some level, ?? Zek is approaching a Mythic raid boss - it's a ton of personal responsibility, brutally punishing mechanics(Ie, full wipe) if you mess up, with regular dps checks, and a high amount of incoming damage that can at times be spiky. The only bit missing is being dependant on 19 other people not messing up their bits.
If they added a cap on how many crests you can earn each month (not week - most peoples' RL mean playtime varies from day-to-day and week-to-week), this would reduce the need to "do everything". It does feel that they are adding *too much* content that you "must" do, which makes it feel more like a grind than a game.
Something needs to be done, there’s a big discrepancy between the difficulty and reward between Mythic+ and Delves. Mythic+ needs to be giving gilded crests and Mythic tier vault rewards at lower key levels, and maybe even Mythic tier loot at the end of dungeons at the highest reward tier.
Delves have been awesome for me. Coming from a break back in Legion, mythic+ was a way to assist with gearing/grinding AP with the guild for mythic raiding. Now that I come back to a solo route with a toddler in my life, hitting my head against the wall for M+ isn't something that I normally have time for or want to endure. Delves have made this accessible and have kept me going when i'm not worrying about getting timed or throwing a key when a kiddo wants attention once their independence moment is over.
I am an inbetweener on Delves. 8's are probably too easy, but they also drop gear thats too low, so overall, they are probably balanced. I AOTC raid, and M+ (6-8s currently). I run delves as a fun thing to do when i just can't group up (mostly when I have limited time to focus). I've definately walked away from a delve mid run for 30 minutes before because RL happens. That for me is what delves are for. I'd love to see harder delves with better gear, but totally understand the balance. It seems like there would be no harm in going up into heroic gear more or offering a way to ensure heroic gear.
Delves saved this game for me, I agree with the crests, I would like a way to get more. I’ve read so many horror stories about mythics and as a healer for raids in my guild I avoid them all together and enjoy playing my alt instead. Delves are so good and I hope they are here to stay.
the gearing feels super smooth until you use up all your runed crests, then you need to start to do mythic raid, or +10 keys to progress your gear at all
I don’t enjoy doing keys and I never use my own key. But I appreciate the points of opening communication to make runs go smoother as group leader, esp when forming the party can take forever.
Mythic plus delves sound fantastic! They would solve a huge problem for me. I am in a mythic raiding guild and love the progress, even though we rarely achieve cutting edge. But we stick to it and play each season till the end. In the recent months I have not been an active member though, because it is frowned upon to rely solely on the raid for gearing. The members are supposed to also get geared via mythic plus, and I do not like to go mythic plus. It is not about the difficulty or the timer, I love those challenges. But I hate to have to organise a group and to deal with different sets of expectations and all the drama that happens when something goes sideways. That costs so much time and is socially challenging when all I want to do is play a game and gear for raiding. Mythic plus delves would allow me to do exactly that on my own terms. They would not necessarily shrink the player base for group content, they could also allow players to get into group content. Cutting edge won't be any easier to achieve, but I could be slightly missing it as a part of my team again. :D
Next delve companion will likely be someone from the Explorers' League. I don't see anyone outside of that being a follower for it. There's certainly plenty to pick from. With Brann being a healer/DPS companion with some tanking capabilities, I can see the next one being a tank/DPS one. Sir Finley Mrrgglton is a paladin technically and could be a tank/DPS that throws out the odd heal making him similar to Brann. Reno Jackson could also be a DPS/tank with some healing (if a hunter can heal, so can a mage). Elise Starseeker could be another DPS/healer option. Past that, they could even make Magni the next delve companion unless he's doing something else. Moira and Dagran are also certainly options, especially with him playing a part in the titan bi-weekly quest chain we seem to be getting currently. Guess the question is if the delve companions will be Bronzebeards at least for the rest of TWW or if they'll remain Explorers' League. Next expansion, I can see picking a variety of people in Quel'thalas/Lordaeron/Gilneas as companions. TLT will likely include people in Northrend we're already familiar with like a druid from D.E.H.T.A., maybe Hemet Nesingwary Jr, or a member of the Argent Crusade or Ebon Blade. Would be nice if we had more than one companion to pick from or at least 2. One that can do tank/DPS and one that can do heal/DPS. Just have the two share xp pools so you don't feel punished for picking the "wrong" one or for trying to level an alt using the other companion. Otherwise, the companions should probably do all 3 roles from the start. Brann can tank to a point, especially once he gets to higher levels, but he had to get that far first.
I have loved doing the delves v mythic +. I have found most pug groups are toxic in mythic groups. It makes me really sad how they do that. I was able to level to 604 ilvl with delves and now have 3 616 slots in the vault.
The next delve companion is very likely to be Gazlowe. Season 2 is slated to be a Goblin-centric patch cycle, with Undermine as the raid, so Gazlowe as our companion before he raises up to take the reins as the goblin racial leader by season 3.
I ended up loving delves more than I thought I would. I think they are in a good spot and this is just the beginning. Simple changes to improve the experience is extend loot beyond T8 with scaled challenge (like M+) and vary the Delve "stories" like Breezy said. If you can completely gear with time in M+ and not touch Raid. I should be able to do the same without touching M+.
I think the delve companion is supposed to be related to exploration, I don't see Rexxar suddenly showing up to tag along. It'd be someone from the Explorer's League or someone related. Remo Jackson, Harrison Jones, etc. Dagran would be reasonable or that blood elf lady from the league whose name I can't recall. Flynn or Gazlowe would both be reasonable.
Delves are in a great place after all the adjustments. I'm so glad to have a viable path for progression that doesn't make me rush on a timer or anything similar. Higher tier delves offer a decent challenge where a higher ilevel does make things easier but I still have to play smart and avoid stuff to avoid death. I feel like the naysayers are people obsessed with the gear grind and people who insist that you have to get to tier 8 asap for efficiency rather than following a more logical progression that allows people to learn fights and mechanics. The gear should only really be about helping us play the game, but it has become the whole end goal for a lot of players.
The other reason is that even IF a person joins a guild... its likely a guild with 700 people, and 10 active players, who already play together without room for another. So that newly joined person can either just leave and go back to pugging, or wait for the next 4 suckers to join the guild and try to form a group... what is the purpose? Its pointless. Guilds ONLY WORK when the people are friends. THAT IS ONLY REAL when they know each other outside of the game. OF course there are exceptions. But not many. Find me a functional and well performing guild group, and at least 3 of them hang out IRL. "Join a guild" is such a stupid STUPID answer.
@@mynameisandycook1 I feel sorry for you. I have joined guilds across a 30 year span of playing MMO's, and I always find nice people in them, every time. Sometimes the vibe isn't for me, so I just find another one.
i want a block macro option for chat, i wanna NEVER and i mean NEVER see another "JOIN MY GUIILD I'LL TUG YOU GOOD" in my whisper window that i already had to do! I'm a snail, i don't wanna join YOUR GUILD, stop bugging me!
@@mynameisandycook1 i got included in a group of 6 people , they not always online , had more people added , we played on split groups if we want to do m+ keys or open world content , then we stay all together after we finish in the discord call , you proly just not trying bud , im a guild leader and most people i invite are so silent and non existent , people are scared to be social , we don't bite buddy , just join and ask for a help on keys or delves or even tmog bs , get to know us in that key run or other runs , crack jokes , and everyone is having a good time , your just venting your opinion rn , calm down and try more guilds , im pretty sure you just saw people already doin one m+ and tought "' thats it i can't be a 6th wheel" just wait till a spot is available or join them in voice and speak god damn it , remember that people like you think its a burden to join voice chats and ask for stuff , people are so anxious these days , everyone scared that he gets pushed off when he join as a 6th wheel , this generation is so cooked , i went threw this for a whole year and i can relate , and you know what i did ? fuck it im indulging myself and i don't care about anyone anymore , and here i am a guild leader with 700 members more than 50 active daily members , rest are silent people like u proly and join us on raid days only.
12:55 This argument went out the window the day M+ was released... perhaps even earlier with Flex raid sizes. With overlapping rewards there will never be 100% balance between the content and players just need to accept that, or we go back 1 Raid Size and that's the only source of Top ilvl gear. When I was Raiding heroic, we'd end the Tier in Mythic ilvl gear from Keys while only being able to farm the first few easy bosses in the actual Raid. Delves brought me back to WOW. Truth be told, they're getting a bit boring solo across multiple Alts and due to Coffer keys, some of my Alts just do a weekly LFR instead, but the real value I'm getting from Delves is the ability to play with my RL buddies without needing a set group of 5 including Tank + Healer. In their current state, I can't see Delves keeping us invested for an entire season. Not because of the gear cap, (although they could add Gilded crests to T10&11), but because the difficulty vs reward curve isn't quite right yet and they can tend to drone on in the higher Tiers due to damage sponges. Within my group, we're really hoping Follower Dungeons eventually become the new "Delves". Just as LFR -> Mythic Raids, the content and scaling already exists so instead of them having to create new Delves every season, just re-use the Dungeons but, like Delves, give them Tiers and weekly stories/quests. The main reason I loathe M+ is the timer.... plenty of affixes over the years definitely led to bad weeks, but that's because of how they affected the timer. As a former Tank, perfect routes for exactly 100% trash also contributed, but again, that's because of the timer. If a Delve style version of M+ Dungeons existed, keys affixes and all, but without the timer.... we'd be set.
My vote is Monte Gazlowe as a companion. Would be great to see his take where you are working for bilgewater company and goblin style attacks instead of the bran themed attacks and powers;
m+ is a nightmare, and have been for some expansions. 2500+ for +7 keys. And you need to play a meta class. "Run your key" Dosent work. There is a three step fix tho. 1. A Dungeon finder for m+ ( Like yo must complet a +3 to do a +4 for all dungeons) 2. Remove the timer for the ones that chose to go random que 3. Punish leavers harder/Reward healers and tanks extra for completion
You do not need to play meta. I’m playing balance Druid and have 2300 as someone who plays the game casually. If you are blaming your keys for bricking because you aren’t playing a meta class, you are fooling yourself dude.
@@mrcaterpillow9926 The part about the meta class is for the invite not the preformence. But what do you think is most likley, that you or the 90% that hates the m+ community is right?
M+ at low key levels is fine, like 2-4 seems to be ok most of the time. However, in 7+, which is what I need now to get any progress, it's absolutely unacceptable and horrid to do with randoms. It takes 20 minutes to find a group as dps, then 20 minutes to go through, someone makes a mistake, people yell and demean and then leave. If I go as a tank, the dps don't interrupt enough, healer can't keep up, healer dies, rages at me for some reason, then leaves. If people would be nice and kind to each other I wouldn't mind failing about half the time, it's just dealing with the toxic players is not ok. I'm going to wait a few more weeks for people to be able to handle 7s and then try again, because right now it's not fun by any means, it's incredibly stressful. If I had enough friends/guildies to play with it would be different, it's really just the toxic pugs that cause the issues. Same issues with pug raiding honestly, never going to do a pug raid again, so tired of people flaming each other for no legitimate reason. Like a guy wipes the raid because he kept dpsing instead of following the mechanics, then blames the group that "the dps was low" then gets so antagonistic that the raid collapses. Just horrible. Never again. Blizzard needs to just ban people who are toxic, that's the reason FF14 has such a good community, they don't put up with the bad actors. I think a lot of this also comes down to the fact that M+ is timed, if it wasn't timed I think it would be less toxic, and less competitive. I've always hated timed group content, it's not a fun mechanic. Maybe add like a prestige mode that's timed, just for show off points, but separate all gameplay benefits from the timer, like the key depleting and getting 1/2 the crests.
Yeah... there is many people who would just like to play with chill friendly people. We need a community for that 😄 unfortunately that also does not seem to work for some reason. Just like getting a daily group with neat people at the same time.
I took my fresh 80 hunter to the ah to get to 551, then tried to join T8 delve groups. I was completely denied, so I ran 5 today solo. I'm now 582 ilvl. All bountiful today.
Follower Delves - make it happen Blizz and also fix the drop rate for reagents in delves. I'm close to abandoning professions because of the drop rates.
I play entirely solo now as I'm not entirely welcome in group content - I'd love to do group content, but without that choice, delves give me some end game to work towards.
Besides my earlier remarks I have a few more. I don’t like the rushing part from M+, I would like to try a variant without timer. For me a raid is too long. I did raid in FFXIV and liked it. If I would be able to queue the HC raid per boss, I would try it. If those options will cause to much disruption I really hope they will keep improving delves.
As a possibility for Mythic +/delves, what if the higher level gear were available to delves BUT only as a solo player? Like gear that cannot be looted in groups. If a player is THAT skilled but a loner, access to higher loot might take care of a few issues, such as people that don't like doing superfast PUG runs, people that are fantastic players but can't make it to scheduled guild runs because of IRL obligations, people who enjoy the constant challenge. I'd say it should be a solo track with personal timers (beating your best record for said delve sort of like the M+ counterpart) and an "emergency eject" button that launches you out of the delve but holds your place within the delve when real life interrupts. No time penalty because you're not actually playing. It can even be more fair by porting you to the nearest flight point, so you have to fly back to the delve but it keeps the button from being abused. Make the gear drop chance relatively low compared to M+ and have a daily CD. (IE one Delve on Solo+ per day, locked in when you reach a checkpoint) Getting better gear shouldn't be easier in Solo+, but it keeps people challenged and coming back for more. I don't know. It's just a thought.
Honestly in most pugs the tank takes off like he's running a marathon. Like you said there's no communication unless things go sideways. Its why I only do mythic+ with guildies.
Been loving m+ this season. I‘m healing and I love learning the dungeons. Most groups, no communication whatsoever unless things go wrong. Rare pings. Everyone just follows the tank. Sometimes you do meet real nice people though who engage in a little bit of chitchat
I've only done raid (with my guild) and devls (solo or friends) , searching for pugs (solo) in mythic+ is impossible for me, I waste so much time waiting... that it was literally replaced by delvs (in solo)
Hello it is I , Stryker Ascension Breaker and Immortal Spelunker. I was a big fan of torghast and delves are a big improvement on that kind of concept. I also play m+ and it really wouldnt bother me if the higher delve tiers dropped even higher gear or gilded crests. If a player being rewarded with gear for completing challenging content (yes tier 11 delves are challenging) threatens a players 'epeen' thats there problem. I also think m+ gear rewards should go higher however as the higher keys start to become very unforgiving.A So yer delves are great , dont throw the baby out with the bathwater imo.
I love delves, and even though I am primarily a raider, I would love to see delves be more end-game with the rewards that keep up with M+ and raiding, even if that means increasing the difficulty of higher-level delves. I seriously do not believe that most of the people are being pulled from raids or M+; I think they are a different pool of players altogether and I am all for it. Why in the world would you want M+ players or Raiders who don't have their heart into that content? Oh, and another thought, I would be more into getting back into M+ if the follower dungeons increased in difficulty so that I could learn them with more challenge. Getting into heroic groups takes too long.
So you mentioned the companion being able to hold threat. Right now it’s such an issue that bran actually does get threat, I have limited available steps inside this circle and bran is ripping threat and disengaging to narnia and as melee I can’t even hit the mobs without running all around and depleting my circle lol it’s so annoying
Delves seem a good addition overall, but a few things i would like to see is infinite scaling (like m+ but without the keys or timer) and a bit more solo focused. There is already a lot of group content and just knowing that you could be way more efficient in a group than solo is a bit annoying, though something like separate feats for solo and group delves could fix that. Another thing is... Too much gear, you're guaranteed a champ piece every delve you do (it is slightly limited by keys, but you still get a ton of them), while half the normal raids i did so far i got 0 items and m+ takes way longer per run (especially accounting for group making) and you have a 40% chance of getting loot and that's IF you manage to complete the dungeon and someone doesn't leave. To clarify i don't mind delves rewarding champ or even hero gear, i wouldn't even mind myth track in vault, but there's just too much gear to the point where champ gear just feels insignificant.
Delves straight up saved WoW for me.
Same
I can finally keep up playing just a few hours a week. I have a toddler and kid on the way. I just want to be able to keep up with my raid team. We run heroic, nothing crazy. 4 hours a week. I’m down with it.
Delves saved the game for a lot of people :)
same
GAY
DO NOT add a timer to Delves, dear god
yeah, I literally hate M+ because of timers
do that and delves die. I SWEAR TO GOD DON'T FKIN DO IT.
I can’t think of a single game I’ve ever played that I felt like a timer made it more enjoyable for me. I dislike it so much that I completely understand I’m likely an exception though.
Indeed, I can't stand timed stuff. It's just another part of the ubiquitous, capitalist delusion that a persons worth is based solely on their productivity. It has no place in a game which is supposed to be fun.
@trollnerd6522 You still have to follow the mechanics because you get one shot if you don’t, it’s not face roll. This is why I think tanking Brann would be a good idea, that way other classes/roles can also do that if they are dedicated enough. I think that’s what higher tier delves should be, a thing where you follow the mechanics and time everything right rather than constantly waiting between defensive cooldowns because of incoming white damage.
I am firmly within the Delve demographic. I was over the moon I could get a single piece of Hero track a week, with a random map Hero piece here and there. I am perfectly content with where the gear landed, I don't have any need for Gilded Crests or Myth track. Delves need more work (glares at Brann) but the gear/power is not on the top 100 Delve problem list. Also 11.1 companion will be a goblin methinks.
Gazlowe or whoever he is. The goblin from Azj Kahet leveling campaign
Honestly I'd love for it to be Harrison Jones in 11.1. He needs to make a comeback and this seems like the perfect moment. Exploring dangerous delves sounds right up his alley. My next guess would be the new guy in the fedora at the delves hub in Dornogal - Jackson something.
I say it's going to be a Kobold, probably Skitter :3
M+ toxic playber base killed it. Solo delves FTW :)
as a toxic m+/pvp only player i cant blame u :D
There is nothing toxic about doing your best to time the key...
@@MrPFMneto No one ever said this and you told on yourself as well as being toxic.
@@alphaking32 nah, it's generally the kids crying about toxic keys that just want to get carried and completely disrespect other people's time for a key.
@@MrPFMneto 🙄 doesn't mean m+ players have to make it miserable for everyone else.
M+ players complaining people don't have to take their shit anymore is hilarious to me.
This!
Who says this tho ? I'm 2k4 m+ and doing delves with my guild when they need someone, it's pretty chill.
True, some people just don't understand they are the problem, everyone else does tho.
M+ people refuse to take the interrupt talents and flame the group for lack of interrupts going out but will be surprised when the M+ pool dries up
I agree, they only have themselves to blame, breaking into M+ sucks ass, toxic impatient players are all to common. There is no willingness to help people to learn mechanics or the tips and tricks learned over a great many runs. It's join, pump and don't take any damage or your kicked or they leave, its just not fun frankly. More so in wow than any other game, and I have played most of them to end content.
the M+ players so salty that people are enjoying delves is hilarious to me.
Some people just want to get home and be apart of a world, enjoy the story or ambience, explore, RP, collect, and have -fun-. This is a roleplaying game after all, not an e-sport, and it never will be no matter how hard blizzard pushes it as one.
copium setting in for the toxic m+ playerbase
I play M+ and I have never heard a single person complain about delves being easy loot. Everyone likes easy loot. This is a game we play, where tribal notions get put forth, that don't really exist in reality.
Delves is keeping the people who never wanted to do M+ away, and that's fine. I've done M+ ever since they became available so I could avoid raiding drama, and now I do delves to avoid M+. I'm happy as things are now. I seem to remember people thinking M+ would ruin raiding, and that didn't happen. I think delves are great and should stay as is
Why is it that some players get upset over others getting equipment a bit easier now to improve their game play? Is it such an ego trip that you have it and others don't or must work harder to achieve what you did? I'm 99% casual solo and I don't care to socialize when I play WoW! I don't care for M+, I don't care to do dungeon runs or raids where some noxious individual doesn't like how I play my character of the moment. I'm casual which means I set my own time during the day. I love the follower dungeons. I love the delves, so stop trying to have me play your way.
It's an pride attitude people have. Instead of working together to have fun and succeed, they want numbers to show off. People want to validate themselves with numeric achievements instead of playing to have fun and the numbers coming on the side.
Thats why M+ gets so toxic in pugs at times. People feel their worth is being invalidated due to mistakes of others. Or their own mistakes, which happen to everyone.
So if someone else is getting free gear, free numeric value to show off? Yea, that's a problem in that mindset.
@@scorpogee6280 100% this. They don't want anyone who doesn't do M+ or raid to have gear anywhere near theirs because they are not special then.
@@stacylgh the fun thing is, solo players dont get mythic track gear, yet m+ Andys still whinge
No one said that
@@julianahavart WoW has always had the most petulant player base I've ever encountered. Other classes that needed dev attention getting attention sends players of other classes into meltdown with things said like "Um, when the hell are you going to fix my class? This wasn't even needed for *insert class they don't care about*" in the announcement threads for buffs. IDK what it is but they act as though anyone else getting nice things or attention means there's less of Dev Daddy's love they're going to get. WoW players are basically the jealous sibling seething when their brothers and sisters have birthdays. It's basically safe to dismiss 75% of complaints as infantile selfish masturbation.
I love delves! I hope they make new ones
Id run all the delves in elwynn and westfall
Yeah, I finally got my wife to come back and try WoW again and she's actually having fun just doing duo delves. She was driven away in the past because just doing levelling dungeons randoms were such assholes to her. To this day she has panic attacks if we try dungeons or even LFR, not because of the content but because of how other players treated her in the past. And she's a normal well-adjusted person just new to video games, not some anxiety ridden bubble girl as sometimes you see having meltdowns over non-issues.
I probably wouldn't play WoW anymore without delves, they've been that much of a boon for how we play. I'm not a total shitter, I've done heroic raiding, KSM, 1900ish rpvp just to get the mogs, I just don't really care about dealing with most other players I'm not IRL friends with anymore.
Something I'd love to see for future delve features would be a *choice* of companions. This would be a longer-term thing since I'm sure each companion's a good amount of work to implement, but over time as we build up a roster, it'd be cool to be able to pick who we bring with us.
I love your historical timewalking delve idea, too. And if we did get delves in legacy zones, a portal room like we get for M+ dungeons from prior expansions would be nice.
Also, as someone who really likes delves, I agree about the myth track gear. I think it's fine for myth track gear to be really difficult to achieve and something that comes primarily or exclusively from group content. IMO delves don't need to offer myth track gear to be worth it long-term.
They teased in the future we could use an alt as companion. I like this idea ALOT.
This idea is not final or mean its gonna be implemented, but i like it alot it exists.
@@Eldun Using alts would be really cool! It'd be rad to use them as companions for follower dungeons, too, really drive home the idea that your warband are a bunch of characters who know each other and work together.
I’d love to have hero companions for delves too. Or even roaming Azeroth to recruit new delves companions
@@AgentNoun that would be pretty neat, or a token which lets you take one additional NPC with you for that run. Could be rare drops from coffers or something.
we did for covenants, they can do it with this.
If it turned into a forced shared experience with its current player base, then I'd have either be in a Guild that I like the non-toxic people, or just do the story related content and call it a day. I will not play with toxic jerks, nor do I enjoy running through instances as fast as possible, taking shortcuts, and hopping over areas in the map.
I feel exactly the same way
Exactly !
same! the timed nature of M+ is incredibly stressful
The whole rush mentality killed it for me. There is no time to enjoy anything. It's a rat race as if I am working at the stock exchange or everything else in society. And that creates unhappy people that just want to be better than others without enjoying anything.
I did my first pugged 5-player Delve earlier. Overpulling, unnecessary pulling, standing in the fire, made M+ feel chilled..and yes I was the healer..went back to soloing T8's as Elemental
If M+ players feel forced to play Delves then that's their problem. They shouldn't be allowed a voice to change Delves because they won't be there long. I've played solo 99% of the time since Wrath. The Delves are for Casuals like me. They've said for years that we don't belong in Endgame content and gatekept participation. LFG is super toxic and not fun when the tank is pulling the whole dungeon. I want to actually play my class not just shoot Ice Lance while running. Delves have helped me become a better player because I have to use my entire toolkit. WoW needs Casuals to keep money coming in. People have left for years because of how toxic the Dungeon and Raiding community can be. Money talks and the changes in Dragonflight and TWW has brought people back. I've loved Follower Dungeons too. I finally get to actually experience the story.
The only solution to that problem is to make delves less rewarding. People who are forced to take part in content they don't want to because of the rewards being too good have a real problem that has to be addressed.
No other form of endgame gear guarantees everyone who completes it gets loot. It's just objectively better for gearing up than anything else, which is a problem in game balance.
Delves really help getting better with your class and talent choices. I get the time to experiment, try out and learn. No way I can do that in a dungeon run especially m+. You need to play perfect and have the meta build or you get shamed and blamed.
@@daniellucas5522 Nobody is forced to do shit. You do what you choose to do.
@@daniellucas5522I don’t think delve rewards need to drop. But Mythic + needs to increase its reward level. Outside of getting your BIS items, there’s almost no reason to engage in Mythic + at the moment if you’re a heroic raider. For how agonizing some of the higher keys are the fact that a 7 drops 610 hero is abysmal.
90% of the game is solo content anyway. I've always just wanted a difficulty somewhere between "autobattler" and "soulsborne." Delves have so far ramped up enough that they fit that goal without having toxic dungeon runners blitz through to the end.
To be honest PUGing has been a nightmare for me for years as every role. I love delves for the fact that I can go through at my own pace not needing to worry about timers, worrying if I’m busting someone else’s key, or wondering if I will be selected for any groups. The only time I run M+ this season is if someone in my guild, at least two other guild members are running with me. I can see some of the issues with people trying to “ice skate uphill” but you can use the rating system to at least see what people have done before coming into a M+ group.
I’m done pugging permanently. Even when it goes well as a healer it’s still far too much stress. Too many incompetent DPS that don’t use defensives or interrupts.
i totally agree with you on this. pugging is a nightmare 9 out of 10 times, it's either people not knowing mechanics and not reading chat, or people wiping 2 times in a +3 and then instantly disband. i also don't believe i have ever encountered that many bad tanks in groups.
you know that running 10s with friends is easier than pugging 3s with people who don't know what's happening in the dungeon, right? i figured a nerd would be able to read but ey, trolls be trolls
If coffer keys are keeping M+ dregs away from Delves, I would say they were working as intended.
Unfortunately it’s also allowing delve babies to think they can do M+
Its so strange to me that you would say something like this. Why on earth would you care about who does what content, and why would you pass judgment on people who like content you don't? Delves are solo content, so it literally doesn't matter who else does them.
I can’t imagine being you and never losing my virginity. And don’t say you did because relatives don’t count
I raid do m+ and delves nooooo
They're not. Why in the world would I farm champion track gear when I can go farm hero track gear? It's just a waste of my time. The keys mean nothing for m+ players because it's just a less effective gearing solution.
Since start of BFA M+ has been an solo experience for me. As the expansions progressed the communication in pugs has steady decreased. Nowadays I am very happy if get a reply on my hello. The most I hear from the other 4 players in my group is when something goes wrong and the insults start. And this is why I will always choose delves of the toxicity of a pug M+. Therefor in my honest opinion the M+ community has no one else to blame then them self, for the decline of players.
Delves are the best thing since sliced bread. I do them solo most of the time late at night, when no one on my fl is online.
People complaining about them being "too easy" or provide too high ilvl items just want to gatekeep their precious higher tier loot.
I personally do not "need" delves, we should clear heroic next week and I complete M+ achievements for the portals and mount each season, so gear from delves is a non-topic for me, but I enjoy them quite a bit as a fun little extra game loop I can play.
Delves should get higher tiers with scaling loot going forward.
Those top level delves should be limited to a few runs per week however, so no one can spam them for endless gear.
You cannot endlessly grind them for gear because it's limited by coffer keys. Unless there's an exploit, I am not aware of.
I would love to see Brann as tank too for those that wants to do it as healer. I know you can do it as healer with Brann as dps. I have done it my self many times. but as you said..... having the option is great.
ps. I love Delves. well I don´t like some of them. but in general I love Delves. I love the idea that I´m not forced to do the m+ for gear.
I don't like the mushrooms but I still do the delve. I really hate all that jumping around, and since I have 15 alts that can do that delve says a lot. Still I would rather slit my arms then do group stuff. Give me those npcs in the follower dungeons that don't say snarky toxic stuff and I'm happy.
@@scorpogee6280 lol... same here... I hate the mushroom delve and the one where you walk in the darkness. Not the candle one, but the one where the whole delve is in darkness.
The candle one in my favorite
@scorpogee6280 I hate fungal folly, it's the only one I actively avoid. The spider ones are my favourite, they're pretty fast and no need to mess around with side mechanics like candles or air supply.
@18:29 is such truth. When I started playing WoW in BC, tanks would mark targets and call out for sheep’s/saps/traps/etc on those mobs. I know this went away partly when you could just AoE stuff down, but that level of communication is still so rare even in content that merits it nowadays.
I remember many, many group disbands just during the magister's terrace trash if cc failed. I miss those times.
I would like to see more puzzles in delves and fewer/less powerful mobs. That would balance it out more for me. Currently, I'm farming 8s like crazy, because they give the highest gear you can get, which can be upgraded further. The difference between an 8 and 9 is significant enough that 9s are too much of a hassle just to save a few tokens for upgrades.
I would also like to see a general gear token drop added to delves instead of actual gear drops, because I'm tired of getting trinkets I can't use. I need some gloves, dammit! Either that or have a currency (I know, *puke*) drop from 8s and higher to buy a piece of gear. Limit it to one per week and we goochie.
I for one LOVE the puzzles and mind tricks. I'd love to see like a Harry potter battle chess or something maybe even pet battles for new paths or buffs
I don’t think MMOs should be forced group content, but I think the group content on offer should feel more rewarding than stressful.
As it stands (for me anyway) Delves are the only endgame content where I feel my time and energy is properly rewarded without having to temper my enjoyment with stress or bad attitudes.
M+ and raiding are much more time-consuming and are either enjoyable but not rewarding, or are rewarding but too stressful to enjoy.
Essentially what you are asking is to have ff14 system here, assholes are banned immediately. Me too brother, me too. That sadly requires active gm's, which wow do not have.
The real issue is partially the cap on runed crests being so easy to hit, and then not getting gilded until 9. There's a really big gap in the middle where there's very little incentive to complete because you're not going to realistically get crests. Unless you are doing mythic raids where you can get gilded crests, it's really hard to get to 9 dungeons to get them as a healer or tank.
Use your key
I love Delves. Literally gives me a gearing path I enjoy. Usually i eventually get some decent gear but I always end up relying on time walking raid reward or do 5 dungeons. But delves have kept me interested and playing. Plus now I am gearing up new characters and doing even more per week on multiple characters.
My personal feeling is not caring that i can’t get each piece to 6/6. Would be nice? Sure, but i wont lose sleep. As long as i can kill hard Zekvir solo, i am happy.
The problem isn't so much with delves, its that they nerfed m+ rewards too. It was much easier to get to myth level gear in dragonflight. Now with delves, all the lower tier m+ feels pointless.
Just a pedantic comment, but Delves already can reward Gilded, although admittedly it is just a trickle. Even so, I just recently got enough Gilded from delvers maps, to pop my weapon to ilvl623, and may even get enough to fully max it out 6/6 Hero track. Not too shabby from only playing Delves solo.
You've gotten five maps on the same character?
@@tonyr6180 i've gotten 6 or 7 on one char, 3-5 on alts
@@tonyr6180 i didnt keep count, but because of the number of Runed Crests given, I just assumed it was 2 Gilded per Delve map run. But it's gotta be 2-3 per, since I got 3 on each of my last 2 map runs.
Always gotten 3 gilded from maps, but map drops are very fickle. Had 3 on my main last reset and 0 so far this reset. I average around 3 delves a day with the time I currently have to play. I believe they worked out you have around 1 in 12 chance for a map, seems plausible l...
I think Brann should have dps, healer and tank options. Help with classes that don't have pets or take hits well.
He tanks just fine, if you let him attack for a bit on his own.
Or have pets that cannot hold aggro i.e. voidwalker
Indeed, I'd like a proper tank version then I can focus more on the mechanics rather than getting peeved off because of frigging melee being in my face all the time, not only is it annoying on squishy characters like my priest but it also limits the difficulty I'd like to go up to.
@@Tijuanabill Try that on a higher difficulty, above a certain tier he is completely ineffective at it. He was good earlier as he put out really high damage in his DPS mode, but post nerf he just isn't the same.
@@Chicken-x6q6d TBF I'm Ret and we just do what we want in delves. Point taken.
Try to pug tank dungeons is a nightmare being able to just progress solo or non traditional groups is amazing. I want to see the delve endgame fleshed out make zekvirs lair or future equivalent more interesting than just hard boss. Maybe it has a monthly modifier and weekly completion that rewards some gilded crests. Time walk delves could be cool doing events from rpg lore or books would be really ideal for this imo.
As a raider that hates M+, the same way M+ crashed raiding when introduced in Legion by giving out the same rewards, Delves shouldn't be nerfed for doing just the same. I don't want to partake in M+ to get gear just to be able to do the content that i enjoy, which is raiding. Let us have our cake, you do M+ and we do Delves.
Imagine having one of your own warbands char as follower in Delve instead of Brann.... or having your own warband char as the follower dungeon.
THIS
Nicely done as usual. I agree with everyone that said...No toxic people, please. I enjoy Bran telling me to move...it must be the accent....I can not think of anyone that would be a good replacement for Bran. He is the explorer, and he also forgets to move out of the blast zone himself...I like that.
As an arcane mage it gets annoying fast when he keeps telling my mana is low
@@ganondorf66 Really...well I have not taken my mage through yet, so I will look forward to that. I always forget to watch my mana.
@@ganondorf66 Hahahaha! So funny! 😁
@@ginch6448 he says it when you cast surge, every time
@@ganondorf66 Ahhh, gottcha. I don't have an Arcane Mage, I have frost and fire...should be interesting to see how that goes...
I have found the delves to be terrific to bridge that gap we had between open world veteran gear and M+ gear. It allows me to be able, with my limited time, to gear something that I can participate in M+.
Totally agree. Hide the myth track gear behind high keys and difficult raid difficulties. No reason why we can earn champion and occasional hero track gear in delves.
M+ has been horrendous. Any minor inconvenience and someone is guaranteed to leave.
I haven’t had that problem yet. I’ve actually been surprised how many groups I’ve had wipe multiple times and finish even after the timer ran out. 🤷♂️
@@stellarjayatkins4749 You are special. Blessed. A beacon of hope.
@@stellarjayatkins4749 I've actually had the same positive experience in M+ for the most part.
I don't even mind that, the worst is when people who feel like they are entitled to rewards they or aren't getting yet and or cant' get that they aren't good enough and no one is gonna carry them every run, who are SUPER ANGRY before the run even starts, makes me not wanna play
@@stellarjayatkins4749 What role are you playing? If you say DPS.... rofl.
I reckon new delve companion could be a character like Flynn or Gazlowe who have been gratuitously brought back in TWW. They aren’t a main part of the current story as you mentioned but are well known characters from the past.
Was gonna comment Gazlowe as well since the rumours of more goblin content. Flynn a great shout as well
Mythic Plus SHOULD be awesome but content creators and Bilzzard's greed have ruined them. The community is toxic. If you aren't Meta and you didn't feverishly pump up your IO score during the first week you get kicked to the curb. Sure, you can run with your guild on another set schedule like for raids etc. blah, blah, blah but there SHOULD be a Dungeon Finder option for running keys - those that prefer pre-made groups can just keep doing it as is.
Why do you think half of chat is for carries for gold? It's because of the toxic community enabled by content creators and their class / spec ratings combined with the biggest culprit - Blizzard and it's desire to sell gold tokens for $20 a pop. Greed always wins the day.
If you try to PUG Mythic plus as a DPS you have to allocate about an hour per key by the time you form / get accepted into a group and then run it. Even then don't dare wipe a couple of times or someone will leave the group breaking the key and you have to start the process all over again. So - if you don't have a regular Mythic group to run with getting your 4 keys in (timed or not) will take at least 5-6 hours - maybe longer. Absolutely ridiculous and it's easily THE most frustrating experience in the game.
Just give us a 'Mythic Finder" with a min IL per key level and have a big leaver penalty for those who bounce before the timer expires. If someone leaves and we tagged the key for 'completion' let us add a new player to fill that spot. They are already doing this for Heroic Dungeons so we know it can easily be implemented.
If you are a 'l33t epeen' player just move along - none of the above applies to or will affect you.
I don't really get this mentality. You don't need any score at all, to get invited to a 2. The 2 gives you the score you need, to do a 3, and so on. The score is the proof you can do the key, and if you don't have the score, that's not the fault of others, to just trust that you can do it. Also, you can form your own group as well, and invite whoever you want.
@@Tijuanabill i went into the fires of Blackrock mountain, and healed for +4s across the board. IT'S HELL. IT SUCKS I HATE MYTHIC PLUS.
@@mossysnail6857 All content is not for all players. I personally don't care for PvP. /shrug
Next season's delve companion will for sure just be one of the other explorer's league characters. Reno, Elise, or Sir Finley. They're already right there next to Brann, so he'll probably just switch places with one of them.
I had a simple +2. It was Grim Batol. I wanted to check out the Dungeon, the Routes, the Mobs and Bosses. There was this one Hunter, I don't know what he played, but instead of helping me kiting (Frost Trap or Oil Trap) he decided to go for his Bomb Trap and we did NOT make the Timer. Everyone else, helped me with kiting, since Blizzard had the GLORIOUS idea to nerf Tank-CDs so hard, that I feel the Differences.
Ofcourse, we didn't time it. But no one complaint about it, since it was just a 2 and Grim Batol is definitely the hardest Dungeon this Season. And Mr. Hunter, instead of being polite and thinking, that it was a simple +2, at the end of the Dungeon, decided to blame ME and that I was an Aweful tank, despite the fact, that I did a +4 and a +3 in other dungeons the same week. Timed those even and up-graded those keys with ++.
Or instead of that, possibly think, that I may or may not be a Newbie and say, "Hey, you made a few mistakes here and there." he blamingly told me, "Stop Tanking, you are SHIT". While I was sitting there, thinking to myself - "Welp... Thats why I do Solo Level 10 Delves. If I make a MIstake, I can only blame myself but still have fun doing those."
So my wife wanted to try tanking this season on her druid. And something I quickly realized was how much i take for granted being a long long time player. Tanking is entirely dependent on experience to speed up how quickly you adapt. As a dps player for example pulling more around her defensives is just alien and she struggles with it. I wish the WoW community was more welcoming
Tank to tank, your first mistake was listening to the opinion of a hunter 😅❤
3 new delves and some new stories for existing delves would actually be a great way to update that content
So this is how M+ goes for me. I spend about ten minutes finding a group or so and at the first sign of any problems, people just leave quietly or very loudly. Normally trying to blame X&Y player and action, when themselves aren't doing what they need to do.
The worst is when they don't even know/understand what went wrong and blame the wrong person
That's the toxic player base fault not blizzards.... the whole reason delves were added is for people who quit and are done with the toxicity. Go play classic hardcore for a bit, the community is literally polar opposite. Nice, friendly, and a death there is permanent.
Ya, i havent ran a single key this season. And I was, up until now, a mythic plus and heroic raider. Now, thank the fates, we have delves. And my man, other than in guild runs and premades. I have, since the birth of m+, never seen a oug with a party leader who gave any direction.
It's just assumed no leadership is necessary in a dungeon.
Timewalking delves = great idea. but paired with blizz scaling. holy shit it would be terrible
if they scale it right that'd be fun. like, a delve involving a prison riot in the stockades! or taking out some random hidden Twilight Cultist cave! or even a cave full of snails who shoot lasers.
So, if, BIG IF, we get what it seems like we'll get, which is the Harronir's home zone + Undermine as a two zone patch, with Undermine also being the raid, and the Root Home being constantly assaulted by goblins harvesting for resources... I could see the storyline adjacent delve companion being Gazlowe, with a bomb throwing DPS spec, and his mech backpack rocking Tank spec.
And hopefully that leading to the Tinker class soooooo often asked for.
I really don't like needing keys in the first place. I guess it's good that I can stockpile them if I don't want to run anything some weeks, but I'd rather just get my first 4 delves each week giving an extra chest instead.
And personally, I'm really not happy with m+ right now. So I'm just delving and raid logging.
The solo delve option is literally the best thing they could've added. And make it relevant in terms of gear is why i subbed for a whole year for once in a expansion
Delve companions are going to be explorers not faction leaders.... thats the whole point of exploration. If we get anyone its going to be someone from the explorers league or maybe someone like Harrison jones
I love delves. Really enjoying having them as a way to get access to different tints of the class sets and something to do in game to progress through. I'd be happy just getting my hero track gear to 5/6 never mind 6/6. The lack of access to gilded crests is my one big gripe with delves at the moment. I like your time gated purchase idea a lot. Because as it stands now I'm stuck running 45 tier 8 delves per Mythic appearance I want to unlock, and this is after I've spent enough runed crests to unlock the upgrade path. Your idea strikes a great balance between making delves just an easy way to farm crests vs. only making it available to people who have invested in delves as their main content of choice.
I also think the gearing path is probably a bit too fast in delves, considering you can get 4 champion pieces per week even without having sandbagged keys before the season starts. But I've gotten a lot of dupes and am still running veteran PVP pieces in some slots, so maybe the gearing path is comparable with lower tiers of m+ now mythic dungeons are on a daily lockout rather than weekly. Delve gear maybe should be behind a currency system tho, like maybe enough for a 3rd of a champion piece in a a bountiful chest, with a 20ish % to actually drop a champion 3/8 piece as well. Maybe even season cap the currency so delves are an investment rather than an early season gear up pitstop for players who intend to do other content. If tuned properly it still makes delves a great bad luck protection mechanism for those players as well.
The only thing i would wish for Delves are a bit more Crests for finishing them. Maybe 5 instead of 2 although you can get 45 through the vault it would speed up a bit the upgrading of items. New Delves would be great, especially if they would be in the old world and they already mentioned that but i think thats way down the road.. Last point, better trinkets. I know the risk of forcing other content player into delves but the trinkets right now are aweful.
I wouldn’t mind better trinkets focused on open world and delves so they aren’t useful for raid and m+ or less useful.
Delves are so much more fun than being forced to play with toxic mythic bs.
Love Delves, think runed crests should drop, or increase at tier 8 towards tier 11 , and maybe in season two with higher tiers of delves gilded. I Love it and am enjoying it every single time I am inside.
M+ feels like a dried up ocean. The only thing left is salt.
You are the source of the salt.
im a solo player pushed my own key to +11 , whats your point here ? just put more efforts ,improve your ui for procs awerness andchange dbm boss mechanic tracker so u can be more awave , per example put it near your hp bar since u check ur hp bar the most , you guys are the reason m+ players are toxic , u got into his key , put minimum effort while the guy come from work proly wanna push his key , and when he point out something you turn on your victim card and start looking at all m+ players the same and go vent on forums.
The sweats want to ruin it for everyone else.
Delves are my favourite part of the expansion, though they should have been just solo from the start, focus all balancing around that.
They should be difficult but rewarding, I do want to see a way to get mythic gear/crests from them even if its just the weekly vault.
The mythic gear economy was already ruined when the made m+ 5 times easier than mythic raiding, there's no reason to punish the huge number of solo players.
I love Delves, they are a great addition. Ever since I've been doing them I've wanted a Stratholme Undead one, take me back to memories of soloing it at 70 in original BC trying to get the mount. As for people saying Delves take away from Mythics and the likes, that's a good thing IMO because I think it might mean that we start to see the return of the fun, sociable progression guilds.
I like what they did before live . Gave us a week to try out mythic 0 , delves up to level 3 , and heroicnfor nre dungeons . Then release main season patch after
My hope would be that since it’s easier to gear with Delves there would be a larger player base of 619 geared characters to pug the first few raid bosses on Mythic every week to get gilded crest and mythic gear drops.
Flynn Fairwind is who I want to join my delves the most, then maybe Elise Starseeker, Meerah, Gazlowe, Naleidea, Aethas
FLYNN would FIT so damn well even Shandris!
The one thing that you missed with regards to details about M+ is that its not really the group leader who takes command of the group its the tank. The tank is the one who decides what is pulled and how fast it is pulled. That is what affects the key. The group leader really more so is just there to get people together.
Here thing thing, M+ takes 35-45 minutes and if you don’t complete you get nothing but 50g or someone in the group could possibly get a piece of loot. Now for delves there is no timer and you get keys which at t8 you have a better chance of getting a piece of gear . My point is you get more out of a delve vs doing an M+ but you need 7 or higher keys for m+ to upgrade you gear further
BTW your Zekvir guide video is awesome!!!
I'd like to see the delve system fleshed out a bit more. Even if you can now get heroic tier gear, the procurement and upgrade track seems needlessly gimped. Yes, it can be substantially slower than M+/raiding, but currently upgrading gear once you get heroic track items is near impossible for delvers.
Maybe something down the lines of level 4-8 giving veteran level gear (only guaranteed from bountiful chest, otherwise RNG) + carved crests, amount of crests based on level. Bonus crests for bountiful delve based on number of remaining lives.
Level 8 and above same with heroic gear and runed crests with highest level giving gilded crests to facilitate upgrading gear. The treasure maps would give mythic level gear and bonus gilded crests, but be much rarer (like one every 25 - 50 runs).
Difficulty of the delves could be adjusted accordingly.
Not saying this is the absolute way, but, especially delves have turned out to be so popular, they need some fleshing out.
Delves and ai companion dungeons for the win. Most of us don’t have the time or patience to deal with groups that will just be snobs and dump you if you make a mistake.
When you brought up Rexxar, that had me thinking back to the Founding of Durotar and if we would see Chen Stormstout since Rokhan represents the Trolls now. If they were going to bring in Chen though then that would have been a better tie in with Brewfest.
y'know, on some level, ?? Zek is approaching a Mythic raid boss - it's a ton of personal responsibility, brutally punishing mechanics(Ie, full wipe) if you mess up, with regular dps checks, and a high amount of incoming damage that can at times be spiky. The only bit missing is being dependant on 19 other people not messing up their bits.
If they added a cap on how many crests you can earn each month (not week - most peoples' RL mean playtime varies from day-to-day and week-to-week), this would reduce the need to "do everything". It does feel that they are adding *too much* content that you "must" do, which makes it feel more like a grind than a game.
Something needs to be done, there’s a big discrepancy between the difficulty and reward between Mythic+ and Delves. Mythic+ needs to be giving gilded crests and Mythic tier vault rewards at lower key levels, and maybe even Mythic tier loot at the end of dungeons at the highest reward tier.
Delves have been awesome for me. Coming from a break back in Legion, mythic+ was a way to assist with gearing/grinding AP with the guild for mythic raiding. Now that I come back to a solo route with a toddler in my life, hitting my head against the wall for M+ isn't something that I normally have time for or want to endure. Delves have made this accessible and have kept me going when i'm not worrying about getting timed or throwing a key when a kiddo wants attention once their independence moment is over.
I am an inbetweener on Delves. 8's are probably too easy, but they also drop gear thats too low, so overall, they are probably balanced. I AOTC raid, and M+ (6-8s currently). I run delves as a fun thing to do when i just can't group up (mostly when I have limited time to focus). I've definately walked away from a delve mid run for 30 minutes before because RL happens. That for me is what delves are for. I'd love to see harder delves with better gear, but totally understand the balance. It seems like there would be no harm in going up into heroic gear more or offering a way to ensure heroic gear.
Delves saved this game for me, I agree with the crests, I would like a way to get more. I’ve read so many horror stories about mythics and as a healer for raids in my guild I avoid them all together and enjoy playing my alt instead. Delves are so good and I hope they are here to stay.
the gearing feels super smooth until you use up all your runed crests, then you need to start to do mythic raid, or +10 keys to progress your gear at all
I don’t enjoy doing keys and I never use my own key. But I appreciate the points of opening communication to make runs go smoother as group leader, esp when forming the party can take forever.
Mythic plus delves sound fantastic! They would solve a huge problem for me. I am in a mythic raiding guild and love the progress, even though we rarely achieve cutting edge. But we stick to it and play each season till the end. In the recent months I have not been an active member though, because it is frowned upon to rely solely on the raid for gearing. The members are supposed to also get geared via mythic plus, and I do not like to go mythic plus. It is not about the difficulty or the timer, I love those challenges. But I hate to have to organise a group and to deal with different sets of expectations and all the drama that happens when something goes sideways. That costs so much time and is socially challenging when all I want to do is play a game and gear for raiding. Mythic plus delves would allow me to do exactly that on my own terms. They would not necessarily shrink the player base for group content, they could also allow players to get into group content. Cutting edge won't be any easier to achieve, but I could be slightly missing it as a part of my team again. :D
Next delve companion will likely be someone from the Explorers' League. I don't see anyone outside of that being a follower for it. There's certainly plenty to pick from. With Brann being a healer/DPS companion with some tanking capabilities, I can see the next one being a tank/DPS one. Sir Finley Mrrgglton is a paladin technically and could be a tank/DPS that throws out the odd heal making him similar to Brann. Reno Jackson could also be a DPS/tank with some healing (if a hunter can heal, so can a mage). Elise Starseeker could be another DPS/healer option. Past that, they could even make Magni the next delve companion unless he's doing something else. Moira and Dagran are also certainly options, especially with him playing a part in the titan bi-weekly quest chain we seem to be getting currently. Guess the question is if the delve companions will be Bronzebeards at least for the rest of TWW or if they'll remain Explorers' League. Next expansion, I can see picking a variety of people in Quel'thalas/Lordaeron/Gilneas as companions. TLT will likely include people in Northrend we're already familiar with like a druid from D.E.H.T.A., maybe Hemet Nesingwary Jr, or a member of the Argent Crusade or Ebon Blade. Would be nice if we had more than one companion to pick from or at least 2. One that can do tank/DPS and one that can do heal/DPS. Just have the two share xp pools so you don't feel punished for picking the "wrong" one or for trying to level an alt using the other companion. Otherwise, the companions should probably do all 3 roles from the start. Brann can tank to a point, especially once he gets to higher levels, but he had to get that far first.
I like that delves help me practice how to deal with mechanics alone that I can’t get out in the open world
I love delves, I am having a great time and if I need to stop and go do something it's not big deal with the solo option!
I have loved doing the delves v mythic +. I have found most pug groups are toxic in mythic groups. It makes me really sad how they do that. I was able to level to 604 ilvl with delves and now have 3 616 slots in the vault.
The next delve companion is very likely to be Gazlowe. Season 2 is slated to be a Goblin-centric patch cycle, with Undermine as the raid, so Gazlowe as our companion before he raises up to take the reins as the goblin racial leader by season 3.
I ended up loving delves more than I thought I would. I think they are in a good spot and this is just the beginning. Simple changes to improve the experience is extend loot beyond T8 with scaled challenge (like M+) and vary the Delve "stories" like Breezy said.
If you can completely gear with time in M+ and not touch Raid. I should be able to do the same without touching M+.
I think the most obvious new delve companion will be another member of the same explorer's guild, like Reno Jackson.
I think the delve companion is supposed to be related to exploration, I don't see Rexxar suddenly showing up to tag along. It'd be someone from the Explorer's League or someone related. Remo Jackson, Harrison Jones, etc. Dagran would be reasonable or that blood elf lady from the league whose name I can't recall. Flynn or Gazlowe would both be reasonable.
Delves are in a great place after all the adjustments. I'm so glad to have a viable path for progression that doesn't make me rush on a timer or anything similar. Higher tier delves offer a decent challenge where a higher ilevel does make things easier but I still have to play smart and avoid stuff to avoid death. I feel like the naysayers are people obsessed with the gear grind and people who insist that you have to get to tier 8 asap for efficiency rather than following a more logical progression that allows people to learn fights and mechanics. The gear should only really be about helping us play the game, but it has become the whole end goal for a lot of players.
Player: why haven't you joined a guild yet?
Me: guild chat.
The other reason is that even IF a person joins a guild... its likely a guild with 700 people, and 10 active players, who already play together without room for another. So that newly joined person can either just leave and go back to pugging, or wait for the next 4 suckers to join the guild and try to form a group... what is the purpose? Its pointless.
Guilds ONLY WORK when the people are friends. THAT IS ONLY REAL when they know each other outside of the game. OF course there are exceptions. But not many. Find me a functional and well performing guild group, and at least 3 of them hang out IRL.
"Join a guild" is such a stupid STUPID answer.
@@mynameisandycook1 I feel sorry for you. I have joined guilds across a 30 year span of playing MMO's, and I always find nice people in them, every time. Sometimes the vibe isn't for me, so I just find another one.
i want a block macro option for chat, i wanna NEVER and i mean NEVER see another "JOIN MY GUIILD I'LL TUG YOU GOOD" in my whisper window that i already had to do! I'm a snail, i don't wanna join YOUR GUILD, stop bugging me!
@@mossysnail6857 If only there was a box in the settings you could click, to prevent guild invites....
@@mynameisandycook1 i got included in a group of 6 people , they not always online , had more people added , we played on split groups if we want to do m+ keys or open world content , then we stay all together after we finish in the discord call , you proly just not trying bud , im a guild leader and most people i invite are so silent and non existent , people are scared to be social , we don't bite buddy , just join and ask for a help on keys or delves or even tmog bs , get to know us in that key run or other runs , crack jokes , and everyone is having a good time , your just venting your opinion rn , calm down and try more guilds , im pretty sure you just saw people already doin one m+ and tought "' thats it i can't be a 6th wheel" just wait till a spot is available or join them in voice and speak god damn it , remember that people like you think its a burden to join voice chats and ask for stuff , people are so anxious these days , everyone scared that he gets pushed off when he join as a 6th wheel , this generation is so cooked , i went threw this for a whole year and i can relate , and you know what i did ? fuck it im indulging myself and i don't care about anyone anymore , and here i am a guild leader with 700 members more than 50 active daily members , rest are silent people like u proly and join us on raid days only.
12:55 This argument went out the window the day M+ was released... perhaps even earlier with Flex raid sizes. With overlapping rewards there will never be 100% balance between the content and players just need to accept that, or we go back 1 Raid Size and that's the only source of Top ilvl gear. When I was Raiding heroic, we'd end the Tier in Mythic ilvl gear from Keys while only being able to farm the first few easy bosses in the actual Raid.
Delves brought me back to WOW. Truth be told, they're getting a bit boring solo across multiple Alts and due to Coffer keys, some of my Alts just do a weekly LFR instead, but the real value I'm getting from Delves is the ability to play with my RL buddies without needing a set group of 5 including Tank + Healer.
In their current state, I can't see Delves keeping us invested for an entire season. Not because of the gear cap, (although they could add Gilded crests to T10&11), but because the difficulty vs reward curve isn't quite right yet and they can tend to drone on in the higher Tiers due to damage sponges.
Within my group, we're really hoping Follower Dungeons eventually become the new "Delves". Just as LFR -> Mythic Raids, the content and scaling already exists so instead of them having to create new Delves every season, just re-use the Dungeons but, like Delves, give them Tiers and weekly stories/quests.
The main reason I loathe M+ is the timer.... plenty of affixes over the years definitely led to bad weeks, but that's because of how they affected the timer. As a former Tank, perfect routes for exactly 100% trash also contributed, but again, that's because of the timer.
If a Delve style version of M+ Dungeons existed, keys affixes and all, but without the timer.... we'd be set.
My vote is Monte Gazlowe as a companion. Would be great to see his take where you are working for bilgewater company and goblin style attacks instead of the bran themed attacks and powers;
uh sapper charges, can use his island expedition mech suit, maybe a rail gun
m+ is a nightmare, and have been for some expansions. 2500+ for +7 keys. And you need to play a meta class. "Run your key" Dosent work. There is a three step fix tho.
1. A Dungeon finder for m+ ( Like yo must complet a +3 to do a +4 for all dungeons)
2. Remove the timer for the ones that chose to go random que
3. Punish leavers harder/Reward healers and tanks extra for completion
You do not need to play meta. I’m playing balance Druid and have 2300 as someone who plays the game casually.
If you are blaming your keys for bricking because you aren’t playing a meta class, you are fooling yourself dude.
@@mrcaterpillow9926 The part about the meta class is for the invite not the preformence. But what do you think is most likley, that you or the 90% that hates the m+ community is right?
M+ at low key levels is fine, like 2-4 seems to be ok most of the time. However, in 7+, which is what I need now to get any progress, it's absolutely unacceptable and horrid to do with randoms. It takes 20 minutes to find a group as dps, then 20 minutes to go through, someone makes a mistake, people yell and demean and then leave. If I go as a tank, the dps don't interrupt enough, healer can't keep up, healer dies, rages at me for some reason, then leaves. If people would be nice and kind to each other I wouldn't mind failing about half the time, it's just dealing with the toxic players is not ok. I'm going to wait a few more weeks for people to be able to handle 7s and then try again, because right now it's not fun by any means, it's incredibly stressful.
If I had enough friends/guildies to play with it would be different, it's really just the toxic pugs that cause the issues.
Same issues with pug raiding honestly, never going to do a pug raid again, so tired of people flaming each other for no legitimate reason. Like a guy wipes the raid because he kept dpsing instead of following the mechanics, then blames the group that "the dps was low" then gets so antagonistic that the raid collapses. Just horrible. Never again.
Blizzard needs to just ban people who are toxic, that's the reason FF14 has such a good community, they don't put up with the bad actors.
I think a lot of this also comes down to the fact that M+ is timed, if it wasn't timed I think it would be less toxic, and less competitive. I've always hated timed group content, it's not a fun mechanic. Maybe add like a prestige mode that's timed, just for show off points, but separate all gameplay benefits from the timer, like the key depleting and getting 1/2 the crests.
Yeah... there is many people who would just like to play with chill friendly people. We need a community for that 😄 unfortunately that also does not seem to work for some reason. Just like getting a daily group with neat people at the same time.
I took my fresh 80 hunter to the ah to get to 551, then tried to join T8 delve groups. I was completely denied, so I ran 5 today solo. I'm now 582 ilvl. All bountiful today.
Follower Delves - make it happen Blizz and also fix the drop rate for reagents in delves. I'm close to abandoning professions because of the drop rates.
professions are DEAD man
I play entirely solo now as I'm not entirely welcome in group content - I'd love to do group content, but without that choice, delves give me some end game to work towards.
Delves is a great addition, now that I work odd hrs - can get home, do two-three runs over the hour then go to sleep.
Besides my earlier remarks I have a few more. I don’t like the rushing part from M+, I would like to try a variant without timer. For me a raid is too long. I did raid in FFXIV and liked it. If I would be able to queue the HC raid per boss, I would try it. If those options will cause to much disruption I really hope they will keep improving delves.
Delves is the dungeon fix we needed
As a possibility for Mythic +/delves, what if the higher level gear were available to delves BUT only as a solo player? Like gear that cannot be looted in groups. If a player is THAT skilled but a loner, access to higher loot might take care of a few issues, such as people that don't like doing superfast PUG runs, people that are fantastic players but can't make it to scheduled guild runs because of IRL obligations, people who enjoy the constant challenge.
I'd say it should be a solo track with personal timers (beating your best record for said delve sort of like the M+ counterpart) and an "emergency eject" button that launches you out of the delve but holds your place within the delve when real life interrupts. No time penalty because you're not actually playing. It can even be more fair by porting you to the nearest flight point, so you have to fly back to the delve but it keeps the button from being abused.
Make the gear drop chance relatively low compared to M+ and have a daily CD. (IE one Delve on Solo+ per day, locked in when you reach a checkpoint)
Getting better gear shouldn't be easier in Solo+, but it keeps people challenged and coming back for more.
I don't know. It's just a thought.
Honestly in most pugs the tank takes off like he's running a marathon. Like you said there's no communication unless things go sideways. Its why I only do mythic+ with guildies.
Been loving m+ this season. I‘m healing and I love learning the dungeons. Most groups, no communication whatsoever unless things go wrong. Rare pings. Everyone just follows the tank. Sometimes you do meet real nice people though who engage in a little bit of chitchat
YEAH i love people bitching at me in my 4s to dispel when it's on an 8 sec cd on my SHAMAN
I've only done raid (with my guild) and devls (solo or friends) , searching for pugs (solo) in mythic+ is impossible for me, I waste so much time waiting... that it was literally replaced by delvs (in solo)
Hello it is I , Stryker Ascension Breaker and Immortal Spelunker.
I was a big fan of torghast and delves are a big improvement on that kind of concept.
I also play m+ and it really wouldnt bother me if the higher delve tiers dropped even higher gear or gilded crests.
If a player being rewarded with gear for completing challenging content (yes tier 11 delves are challenging) threatens a players 'epeen' thats there problem.
I also think m+ gear rewards should go higher however as the higher keys start to become very unforgiving.A
So yer delves are great , dont throw the baby out with the bathwater imo.
I love delves, and even though I am primarily a raider, I would love to see delves be more end-game with the rewards that keep up with M+ and raiding, even if that means increasing the difficulty of higher-level delves. I seriously do not believe that most of the people are being pulled from raids or M+; I think they are a different pool of players altogether and I am all for it. Why in the world would you want M+ players or Raiders who don't have their heart into that content? Oh, and another thought, I would be more into getting back into M+ if the follower dungeons increased in difficulty so that I could learn them with more challenge. Getting into heroic groups takes too long.
There needs to be a better key catch-up mechanism in place. Maybe increase the yield from the echo events over time so it's not a total handout
So you mentioned the companion being able to hold threat. Right now it’s such an issue that bran actually does get threat, I have limited available steps inside this circle and bran is ripping threat and disengaging to narnia and as melee I can’t even hit the mobs without running all around and depleting my circle lol it’s so annoying
With my newborn taking a lot of my attention, Delves is so perfect for me. I don’t have the time nor the energy to learn all the Mythic + mechanics.
Delves seem a good addition overall, but a few things i would like to see is infinite scaling (like m+ but without the keys or timer) and a bit more solo focused. There is already a lot of group content and just knowing that you could be way more efficient in a group than solo is a bit annoying, though something like separate feats for solo and group delves could fix that.
Another thing is... Too much gear, you're guaranteed a champ piece every delve you do (it is slightly limited by keys, but you still get a ton of them), while half the normal raids i did so far i got 0 items and m+ takes way longer per run (especially accounting for group making) and you have a 40% chance of getting loot and that's IF you manage to complete the dungeon and someone doesn't leave. To clarify i don't mind delves rewarding champ or even hero gear, i wouldn't even mind myth track in vault, but there's just too much gear to the point where champ gear just feels insignificant.