This is a Waste of Money…💸
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- Опубліковано 10 кві 2024
- 🚫 Don’t apply spray foam directly to the backside of OSB with a radiant barrier. The radiant barrier will no longer be effective. The pros are probably aware of this but it never hurts to know as a homeowner.
☝️ If you had to choose one, which would you prefer? Radiant barrier or spray foam on the roofline?
👇All the tips and ideas from my videos are organized in here:
✅The Ultimate Home Building Checklist at BuilderBrigade .com
😅 I’m going with Spray foam myself because here in GA these attics get insanely hot and typically the HVAC handler along with all the duct work is located in the attic. Reducing the temp around these components makes all the sense to me. My only concern is the possibly of roof leaks. Man, it would be hard to detect and if you do see water making it through the foam, finding the exact spot would be pretty difficult.
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I just let the black mold insulate my attic
😂😂😂 I wasn't even ready for a comment like this😂😂😂
And when it spreads enough to become sentient it will thank you by sparing your life.
Bahahahahahahah
Man of classic taste I see
I tried but the meth lab fumes keep killing the mold.
My pov is from an hvac tech (n. California) who spends an ungodly amount of time in attics, foam HAS to be installed correctly or its an expensive mess but when done well, it will keep the attics in my area below 100° in the hottest days of summer. Uninsulated roofs without proper ventilation can exceed 150°+ and makes it impossible to safely service hvac equipment for most hours during the day. Love to help you, not willing to die for you
Sorry to hear u live in California but can u tell ppl stay there and not move to other states with the same ideas that messed it up in California. Only thing they are progressive about it leading in stripping rights they didn't know they needed until its to late
I second this, I'm a telecom technician that occasionally needs to get to get to an IDF placed in an attic space. On at least one memorable job I could only stay up there for 10 minutes at a time with long breaks in between to cool down and drink more water. The insulated attics at the same site, just a building away, on an even warmer day, were fairly comfortable.
I do welding and fabrication. Frequently have to get parts powder coated and I’m in there all the time in the summer to pick up parts.
Those Mexicans are working in literal 140 degree heat all day long and don’t drink water and maybe eat a few Doritos.
So it depends on the individual. If you can’t handle the heat, get out of the… attic.
@@SeamlessFab being cooked alive takes a terrible toll on your health which manifests later on. Ive known a couple techs and installers who arent with us anymore because some dispatcher or service manager didnt care about sending people into that environment
Henry makes a 1” foam sheathing with a silver colored reflective layer on one side. Would nailing it up to the underside of the rafters be a viable option to keep the attic temps down?
Spray foam is nice applied like that until you get a roof leak then you’ve got problems.
Why would foam give you problems if your roof is leaking? Does it just make it hard to pinpoint the location or is there something else?
@@firstlast8869Even one drop of water can scroll meters in a narrow gap between the wood of the roof and the sprayfoam. It can result in loosen up the whole sprayfoam. Think about a drop of water between two plates of glass.
@@firstlast8869 The foam is mostly open celled and is basically a sponge specify closed cell of better yet install styrofoam vents prior to spraying a closed cell foam.
I thought I might like to have spray foam put into my basement because the fiberglass insulation keeps falling when those little wires pop out.
But the thing is, I thought it would be much harder to do any type of plumbing or wiring repairs or upgrades if that stuff is completely encasing the space between the floor joists.
Spray foam a new roof
Ventilation is key. Isolate the rest of the house and let the attic space breathe.
This. Just make sure to have some amount of insulation for during winter in colder climates. Otherwise, a fan exhaust setup with some dampers will do the job just fine for during the summer.
Any space I can't use for a room is wasted space. Who the hell needs attic? What is it, 1640?
Not sure why more homes in FL don't have an attic fan.
LP actually says foam insulation over the rad barrier is OK. As long as the ridge vent and eaves vent paths are not Obstructed in any way.
@@randomnickifyRoof pitch creates it regardless.
STOP WASTING MONEY ON SPRAY FOAM. You can put in sheets cheaper and they are better. You can leave pockets between them and the roof creating another insulation or allow air flow. You can also get them with radiant or vapor barrier or both one on each side.
Amen
stop wasting money? lol you need some building science education.
I work in hvac and man ill tell u what sprayfoamed attics were the nicest!! Temperature in the attic dang near felt like the inside of the house
This is one of the oddities about some new improved product that's gonna save the world .Many have drawbacks when paired with other products . Some applications are worse than had you just used the Old Way
The problem with spray foam it hides damage
As a UK estate agent of 24 years, please DO NOT install spray foam. You will not be able to sell it to anyone needing a mortgage. It is very expensive to have removed.
This isn’t an issue in the states. Especially here in Texas. Spray foam is actually sought after because it’s so good at keeping the AC in. Summers here are pretty brutal without it.
Lol that’s not a problem here in the US. It’s actually a value add.
I can imagine, in rainy Britain stuff is gonna rot.
Greetings from Australia. We use rock wool down here. Foam is a fire hazard ... 🇦🇺🙋🏼♀️
@@alli3219 they make fire retardant spray foam but it is more expensive, IMHO it should and likely will in the future be required in most installations. They also make a paint like thermal and flame barrier that can be sprayed over existing foam.
@83ryangreen key word, retardant. Might as well remove ant from it because it doesn't actually prevent fire. It's not fire proof.
Im just gonna go for other insulation personally. Like rockwool or those prefab foam insulation sheets.
I built my house with rockwool batts. Definitely the best decision i ever made in my life. The only reason my house warms up in full summer sun is the windows. And holds in heat during the winter so well i could go naked during an arctic blast. Not to mention how quiet my house is. Sometimes i dont know its raining and hardly wake up from thunderstorms.
Rockwool is more fire proof too!
Get to know r-value. I'm not disagreeing with you, just that there are huge differences between insulation options and many people just think of it as interchangeable. I have used most every type in different applications. And have had to live with those choices, and what I wish I had done instead. No matter what you do, just understand that you probably need to double or triple the amount of insulation you use between the livable space and the non livable space.
Actually, if I had the money and time to do whatever I wanted, I would mount reflective foil backed Styrofoam sheets on the facing edge of the roof trusses creating an air gap. I would either have the reflective foil facing the house and blow insulation in there, making sure to avoid allowing that to fall all the way to the soffits so it wouldn't block airflow. Or, I would have it face the roof and leave the gap without any insulation (so it would reflect back out) and include extra roof vents at the top to create a chimney effect removing the heat from the attic. Obviously you would still need your regular vents to remain unobstructed. All that providing I didn't just seal the whole stock up and treat it like a liveable space.
Rockwool Rocks! Definitely a much better product than fiberglass or cellulose
I removed all the nasty blown in dirty fluff insulation, now im putting Scrim/foil to line the troughs, then im using bats of rock wool, then radiant barrier to enclose it and serve as a floor or allow for some storage,, also i took out all flex duct and bow have sheet metal ductwork,
Also rewiring and making the whole space more proper and issue free.
Radiant barriers don't stop the sun's radiation. They stop the ceiling from radiating downward into the room. Reflective surfaces are bad at emitting energy for the same reason they're bad at absorbing it. You need the air gap because if anything touches it, the heat simply conducts through it (it's metal) and then radiates into the room from that surface. That's why it has to be kept clean.
Thank you, I was hoping someone would correct the OP
Even if it's not clean the emissivity mitigates the heat transfer
Radiant barriers on sheathing do nothing. There has to be an air gap between the radiant barrier and sheathing, but no one wants to deal with the rolls so they just put it on the sheathing to make people think they have a radiant barrier, the don't.
Good luck trying to keep your attic ceiling spotlessly clean!
If I had squatters or bums living in peoples houses nearby. I'd do the foam with it to keep the bums toasty warm in the summer.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049yeap. The other way to install it is the reverse with radiant barrier on the outside and an airspace between it and the exterior roofing mounted on furrings
I got a quote for 9k$ for foam I did the foil barrier myself for 800$
That's like saying "I really wanted a Porsche 944 Carrera S4 so I got the Kia Sorento and saved $$"
@@JoeLiberalism More like "I bought the Kia Sorento so that i now are able to afford something else than a overpriced suicidemachine."
I bought the roll of radiant barrier foil. It's like tyvek with foil on it. It was easy to staple to the underside of the roof. It works really well.
So you threw away $800.
@@fugu4163Actually most exotic cars will start to appreciate after a certain amount of time. Old air cooled 911s are worth much more now than they ever were new. Countach's are going for $400k minimum now. However your Kia will eventually be worth zero. Seems like you just have a knack for poor financial decisions.
Install furring strips on each side of the truss and then attach polystyrene board (pink foam). You get the foam and an air pocket for the heat to transfer to the ridge vent.
Big brain
@@N_AUD1 Big Brain probably never had to actually work hands on with it . I suggest install tubing at 1.65 parsecs and connecting it to a geothermal venting system with a low pressure hydraulics using depleted uranium . The objective here is thermodynamic mode of elasticity and molecular transfer of quasi-stellar wind turbines that will effectively increase the R-values proportional to the Newton's 4th law of insulation . Always complicate the simple
@@Sjwolosz321this made me spit out my Mt Dew
@@Sjwolosz321
The guy (@joshwiedenbeck6944) is right though, that's why foamboard with single/double-sided foil is sold. You get the high r-value/inch of foam, as well as the radiant barrier rejecting heat into the cavity under the roof deck. If you use common sense in venting that cavity, you get the best performance/thickness of any common roof system I know of.
I'm not a roofer and could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure me & he are right.
I agree with Josh, that radiant barrier most definitely works I built house with both and I crawled around in a house with and without it doing remodeling and fixing a leak caused by the shingles blowing off in a storm and I wanted to check to see all signs of where the water has spread and if I need to do more than fix the shingles and treat the mood and replace drywall.
There was a huge difference with no radiant barrier being inside the attic with no radiant barrier. Plus I like using it when sheeting the roof after getting the trusses done because carrying water logged plywood for two or 3 days all day and bending and cutting and the way your back feels so good after words not to mention the extra weight and walking across the trusses with a full sheet of plywood on a windy day, it's feels alot safer when you are gonna carry one or two bunks of plywood by the time your done along with your partners helping out, it's alot easier to not get blown off the roof I feel with the lighter plywood, I can throw it down faster if a fast gust of wind turns up or set it down for a second alot quicker and brace yourself quickly before getting blown and having to back pedal on 1.5 trusses with a 60 to 80 lb kite depending on if it rained the night before or that day.
But you definitely need the air gap to ventilate right under the radiant barrier, the gap also allows the heat to not transfer directly into the insulation and heat up the attic, think of a tall tree or tall metal flat roof that u see with solar panels on them that they put in parking lots nowadays, the things are like 20 ft or 25 ft tall. If u put ur head right under the sheet metal it's probably pretty damn hot, but at ur head level of 6ft and ur car height, it's way cooler with that roof that high up even with no insulation or roofing just sheet metal and solar panels, even with out solar panels they provide way cooler car temperatures in ur car if it's parked under it all day in 95 degree weather, it's like 75 degrees under it at head height.
But if u use that radiant barrier and insulation correctly and also well placed solar air vents that spin to suck hot air out, you could make a house in 90 weather pleasant with no a/c , just a fan on medium or low if needed and may not need any fan or a/c at night.
You could spend an extra 15 grand on radiant barrier and solar vents and insulation done right and ridge vent and make use of any Dutch gable or just gable to put a big solar vent on the end if each vent on each end and on top, if u put 4 solar vents and ridge vent and bird blocks and maybe a couple cheap metal vents on the side hidden from the curb appeal side of the house to not make it look ugly ir cluttered.
You could do a science project and build a little flat roof dog house and 3 different versions I bet the farm if u did all three the inside temperature of the dog house done right will be 10 degrees cooler and in a house I bet at least 10-15 degrees cooler with all three in hot climates and times that by 365 and the electricity u save per day with less or no a/c possible no a/c in winter months and just fan use and some a/c to sleep or just 2 or 3 hours a day in summer compared to 8 hours of a/c in all rooms all year almost ,
You pay for itself in the first year and when u use the a/c u don't feel guilty or feel like money flying out the window which makes the times when u do use the a/c feel so much better and far more effective especially if it's a day off and u feel like a/c and don't care what it costs because it's too hot and u want to enjoy ur Saturday
Aren’t you supposed to use an air chute with a vented attic anyway?
For the love of goodness don’t spray foam a roof
Why?
@@YouKnow-yd3zm if you ever have a leak, good luck trying to find the source
And good luck getting it to dry. Will be a soaked mess
Just imagine the mess when it comes time to replace the roof decking, and you've effectively glued it to your trusses.
@@PutinsFriendAlec You got a good point there .. Future remodelers nightmare. But they'll want you to the do the job as if Icynene was never used .
Rad barrier should be applied on bottom of rafters thus trapping 6 to 8 inches of air that can be drafted out of attic with thw heat radiated down from the shingles.
Foam isn't cheap AND if done incorrectly can cause humidity problems. Be sure to have a heat load done by a professional so that the a/c can be sized correctly and the humidity can be addressed before it becomes problematic
Exactly, radiant barrier on the OSB defeats the purpose.
What is shown in this video is not radiant barrier.
Some houses don’t have AC
@@YeshuaKingMessiah lol
Insulate the walls and ceiling of the house. Then floor the attic.
Insulate ceilings or the attic floor won’t do a thing
I lived decades in that house. Freezing upstairs as all heat went into floored attic.
Insulated attic ceiling/roof and voila
(It was built in 48 before oil inflation was a thing)
We wanted attic warmer but cheaper heat bill would have been to have insulated the ceiling on the second floor.
Now the attic is ready to finish out tho for a 3rd floor of 2 beds n a bath (if put in new back raised roof)
Don't use spray foam its a mess that is horrific to sort out if you remodel; max out on the insulated radiant barrier instead
Don't forget how well spray foam burns. In a fire a spray foam insolated house is going to burn faster.
And how it is a nightmare when you get a leak.
... Or that it makes it impossible to inspect the roof structure, for any reason. Like, when somebody applies for a mortgage to buy your house...
@@epicfail5707it's actually the opposite of that. Foam blocks airflow and prevents the spread of fire.
If spary every inch... 1% chace.
The wind still blows when the windows are blew out from the heat of the fire... I got it, i want you to light your couch on fire. Then I want to see you saving your house with foam sprayed on the underside of the roof decking... where you say there no air as you blocked it all.... blahahaha!
Don't use sprayfoam.
It traps moisture
Is porous thus is perfect for bugs, mold and other nasty things
It's plastic essentially which then degrades to microplastics which your grandkids and you start breathing. Also an absolute B to replace and is too tight in terms of ventilation.
Fresh and dry air is what keeps houses in good condition
glass fiber traps moisture, rigid foam panels are basically the same kind of plastic and for a lot of installation, just getting to where the insulation is an absolute B without even considering what type they are. Saying something is bad without proposing an alternative is not helpful. Which type of insulation avoids those issues?
Also, most modern building codes are designed to control ventilation (i.e. fresh air only when, where and how *you* want it) which in a lot of cases is the only way to keep the hot/humid air out. (If the outdoor air is 85° and 65% humidity that will be 100% and condensing anywhere it leaks in and cools down to 72°.)
😂 which kind? Closed or open cell? Do you have even the slightest amount of knowledge about spray foam?
@@benjaminshropshire2900 the systems that are used is actual ventilation.
Glass fibres don't produce microplastics or disintegrate to dangerous dust unlike foam.
I don't know what codes you use in the USA, but from a European standard that prevents mold and pests and actively take condensation into account we don't use sprayfoam. Also, from a environmental view that plastic is toxic as f for the environment which creates dangerous building waste. Glass fibres are easily processed into new materials without using scarce resources like oil.
@@Blue138UEF I agree that actual ventilation is needed, but that's not incomparable with sealing walls to prevent air drafts from moving where you choose to not have them. (And sealing walls can and is also done without spray foam.) While mold and pests _can_ be an issue, I've never heard of that being an issue with spray form installed according to code and it also happens without spay foam. Having worked around building waste from multiple different perspectives I've literally never heard of anyone doing anything with waste fiber glass other than sending it to the dump.
tl;dr; you're not really offering a suggesting what should be done in place of spray foam and I can go point for point as to why all the common alternatives still the issues you are bring up.
That said; if I build a house, I likely won't install spay foam. But that's because I'd be doing the work myself and don't have the tools or experience for that solution and _do_ and the tools and experience for others.
Do not insulate the roof rafters. The heat build up will destroy your roof shingles 10X faster. Have a good ridge vent as well as side vents. Insulate the ceiling joists to keep the attic heat from going into your rooms. If you really want to reduce the heat in your attic get some temperature regulated fans to help exhaust the heat and move the air.
Properly installed spray foam has a special corrugated foam installed next to the roof decking so that the heat and moisture can be vented from the underside of the panels.
Word
In UK lenders are refusing mortgages with properties that have been spray foam.
Impressive that in the land of usury they'd refuse
@@TheOneTheOnlyToast >ijits
International journal of islamic thoughts
In Texas, the scorching sun and high air temperatures lead to high cooling costs. A radiant barrier *can* be a cost effective way to reduce cooling costs. Just don't confuse it with actual insulation, and make sure it is used properly.
The radiant barrier uses are limited. It is only useful when placed facing an exterior wall or roof. By reflecting the radiant energy emitted by the wall or roof back to the wall or roof, it increases the temperature of the wall or roof, so you have to be sure the exterior material can handle the heat. Asphalt can melt at those temperatures.
If you don't have vented space between the radiant barrier and the exterior, then the heat is trapped, and a large portion of the heat will radiate or conduct to the house, losing a great deal of the radiant barrier's effect. Shiny side facing the exterior with a gap.
With a steel frame and exterior, we use a radiant barrier facing our R panel. The panels allow it to vent, and the panel can take the heat. We have bat insulation behind the barrier in the walls. On the roof, the barrier is hung under the panels, and we have blow in on the ceiling. On a sunny summer day, our roof might melt your shoes, but our attic is a good 25F cooler than an attic with no barrier.
All in all, the radiant barrier is an inexpensive addition that can make a major improvement to summer performance if it's used properly.
As for spray foam.... I can see how it can be useful, but can't see any place where it is either the best choice or the most cost effective choice a a major components in insulation. What a train wreck if it ever leaked from a deteriorated gasket or hail damage! And god help you if you ever have to replace a roof or wall panel! There are cheaper, more manageable ways to get insulation that is just as good.
And I would *never* put spray foam on wood. It may be excellent insulation, but it is also a disaster waiting to happen.
The radiant barrier that the builder put in my roof blocks about 90% of all cell signals.
My house in AZ has radiant barrier on top of the roof sheathing, metal frame windows with a reflective metal tint, foil backed glass batts in the walls, nearly a Faraday cage. Keeps out the heat, and cell signals. Phoenix Fire switched from UHF to VHF radios to be able to communicate.
(dons tinfoil hat) SOLD.
You can still get a cell signal inside your home using a booster that mounts outside. But you have more control with what signal you're getting so a lot of noise is reduced for wifi and its harder for those outside your home to tap into your network.
I disagree get a better than a free government phone. You won't have any cell problems any longer. Facts!
That is strange because GSM signal doesn't come from above, it comes from the sides
This is just people that live so far away from a cell tower that they think their tin foil hats do something.
We've got a walk in uninsulated attic that I'd love to turn into living space but I don't want to put foam insulation in the rafters. It's a 120 year old house and I'd rather not do something that is impossible to undo.
They make styrofoam ventilation baffles you staple up before you install fiberglass batt insulation. (keep in mind, the rafters WILL NOT be nice straight 2x4s in a 120 year old house)
@@_-0_x_-_p_0-_ Oh, the rafters are straight as an arrow. It's all number one full dimension 2x6's and the best stuff I've ever seen. What it isn't is consistent in spacing. 16", 17 1/4", 15 3/8", and so forth. I've looked at the styrafoam/fiberglass and that's likely how we'll go. I'd like to do a cold roof with the air channels just on the underside of the decking - which is doable as the eaves can be opened to vent into the attic, up the roof, and into the area of the attic above the 7' height where there are already cross braces, and out a ridge vent. But that's too big and complex for me to want to do.
@@xlerb2286 yeah sorry, I misspoke a bit. I really didn’t mean straight as much as I meant uniform and consistent with each other. I did this to a home that was built in the early 1930s and it was a challenge to get the drywall to lay flat.
@@_-0_x_-_p_0-_ Oh, I bet, hardly anything is flat, level, or plumb in old houses. I can handle the wonky spacing though it sure makes everything more of a custom hand fit operation. The one that annoys me is the floor joists in the attic, they are consistently on 16 1/4 centers. Someone must have used a spacing stick that was just a little off.
@@_-0_x_-_p_0-_The rafters won’t be 2x4’s either
I am just waiting for the commercials on tv for “if your home was insulated using spray foam insulation you may be entitled to financial compensation.”
Some insurance companies will cancel a renewal policy because an inspector can not verify the condition of the roof in foam has been applied.
In what county?
I find it fascinating that in the UK spray foam can invalidate your mortgage and after the government did grants for it at the turn of the century it’s now considered a hot fucking mess to sort out
Radiant barrier on top of the rafters. Rockwool (or other sheet types) at the bottom.
Add to that heat-reflecting paint on the roof tiles to create a super barrier. Only if you don't have winters.
I will never get a house that has spray foam. It can hold water like a sponge, its not fire resistant and is highly toxic when burned. It makes remodeling a nightmare. If you want to spend the money, get rockwool instead.
Hell yeah!!! If my house catches on fire I definitely wouldn't want toxic smoke present. 😅
And rockwool *doesn't* hold water like a sponge? As for toxicity, I wonder how the toxicity of rockwool and foam compare when things _aren't_ on fire?
hmmm, interesting. I don't kniw enough about this to makeba decision.
Spray foam is fire resistant. Closed cell doesn't hold water.
Rockwool isn't toxic sitting in your attic
Spray foam is a disaster, it damages the roof and remders the house unmortgageable.
How so? It looks like it would be a real mess if you had to reroof your house but is there another reason?
Not true in most of the world
@@joet7136 Because the inspector can't tell if there was water damage from leaks. It won't pass inspection for a V.A. loan.
Just skip the cancer causing moisture trapping spray foam all together.
When I see spray foam my first thoughts are trapped moisture in the wood and rot, the moisture would dry out quickly if the wood has room to breath as my house built in 1935.
In the UK a number of the main banks have stopped giving mortgages for houses where the has been sprayed with foam.
Spray foam in the attic cost me a lot of money replacing rafters.
😂 not ever
Wood has lungs?
@@sequoiapietri5473 I have seen this in uninsulated cottages/homes from the 1930's . Unsealed buildings are remarkable for the longevity of unpainted wood, siding, window frames and even asphalt? shingles.
Radiant barriers are often misunderstood and misapplied. A Radiant Barrier such as Metalized mylar when placed with the reflective surface facing towards the roof will reflect a large amount of the radiant energy that has entered the space and having a very low emissivity will retain a very small percentage of the radiant energy. This combined with an air gap creates a very efficient system.
Unfortunately, you also misunderstand how radiant barriers work. The don't reflect radiant energy back through the roof, they simply are inefficient emitters of infra-red radiant energy into the attic, thus reducing heat flow into the attic.
Why would you put the toxic waste liquid into your house?
In Australia we call this Sisalation and its stock standard on all houses that have tin (colour bond) roofs. I’m pretty sure it’s regulation to actually have this with a colour bond roof. Either spray foam or bats are usually installed along with this. Generally not used with tiled roofs.
I had a left over roll from a shed installation where it was used on the roof only. Had enough to cover a sun facing wall and it does an excellent job.
I have the foil in my roof and external walls, and I didn't know we used spray foam in Australia.
@@davidlorenz54 Oh ****, I wouldn't wanna be in that house, imagine a bush fire 🔥 😮
As a framer of nearly 30 years, I always felt the radiant barrier should be installed face up. If you ever stepped on a piece laying on the ground face up, you'd understand it's where all the real work is done.
It is a radiant barrier, not a conductive barrier.
Spraying foam on the bottom of the Roof deck is a HoRRible thing. Do not do it. It will ROT the roof deck Off. Its closed cell foam that means "No OSMOSIS".
During the summer my Gf ceiling got really warm. So I went up to the attic and notice there wasn't much blown in insulation in the attic. So I added an additional layer of R13 insulation, vented the attic by installing wind turbines to the roof, and ceiling fans in all the upstairs bedrooms. Years ago it cost me about $1000 in material and several days to do. Saved big bucks on not having to run the AC or heater as much and added to the value of the house.
Powered attic ventilators are a mistake and just draw conditioned air out of the house. Passive vents are enough.
@@rsmith02 True, but I live in So. Cal. so I get the ocean breezes. I don't run the AC very much. I have 3 wind powered turbines on the roof so there is no power usage. Power ventilation in the attic is used only in the evening for a couple of hours when the temps are below 70.
Foam holds heat and moisture
Radiant barrier >spray foam . I'm gonna assume you have a spray foam buisness 😂
I’m gonna assume you don’t know when to use > vs
@JimBobby2006 🎯
1000%
@@JimBobby2006 Nope - Thomas is correct on the math
😂10,000 dollar toilet.
That also looks _extremely_ uncomfortable to sit on.
They are out there if you want one.
If you are in a cold climate, install a Radiant barrier in the attic.
If you are in a hot climate, install it over the roof, between the plywood and the metal plate or slate.
But radiant barrier needs air gap.
A radiant barrier in a cold climate won't work on the floor where it will get dusty. Just insulate normally to fix convection and conduction
If that silver layer is in direct contact with the sheathing, it's installed incorrectly: it does NOTHING for conducted heat (i.e. shingles>sheathing>foil). It MUST have an air gap on BOTH sides, as it reflects RADIANT heat (wow, it's even in the name!). But you need a material transition for it to become radiant heat (i.e. hot solid>air>radiant barrier) to do ANYTHING. I stapled radiant foil on the bottoms of my rafters, leaving air gaps at top & bottom for airflow & cooling for the backside of the sheathing, and you could feel an immediate drop in temps below the barrier.
You need at least 1" gap to make a radiant barrier work. I have a decoupled walls on my 1st floor and laminated silver foil rigid insulation onto the block walls, allowed a 1" gap and then framed walls that are conventionally insulated. This works incredibly well.
A real man with money to spend will skip all that and go straight to vacuum insulated panels
Insulating an attic always brings out arguments 😂
I own a roofing company and I’m telling you do not spray foam your tresses unless you have baffles in them. The roof sheathing has to have air circulation or you will have problems and it will cost a fortune to replace rotted wood stuck to foam. Not sure if it works the same for walls.
We have close cell spray foam in our house. It reinforces the structure of the house, so that's why we chose it since we live in tornado alley. Its amazing at dampening sound and insulating. However, we've had roof leaks and it has been an absolute pain to locate the leak source, not to mention the concerns about mold. If i could do it again, I'd make sure we have a way to remove it easily and replace it with sheet foam where needed. Maybe a barrier like this would peel?
Why don’t you use bricks, mortar and real roof tiles with storm clips like we do in Germany. That will last a tornado.
It actually won’t last a tornado, category 4-5 tornados are capable of leveling cinder block and masonry construction
If you’re not underground, nothing will protect you
@@MatzeMaulwurfThose don't help much when the wind speed is faster than the top speed of a Veyron.
@@AvoCattoTV for sure it helps. Search for „BMI Windsogrechner“. You can calculate everything there. If the roof is made well, 180km top speeds are no problem.
Km/h
I live in Phoenix, Arizona. Plumbing is in the attic. We had an attic temperature of 157 degrees my first summer here. Scalding water that you would have to run for minutes. I looked at both, went with spray foam. It is amazing the difference that it makes. Wouldn't change a thing.
Why not use split foam insulation for the pipes?
The barrier and foam have different applications. Use foam if it's a living space, radiant if not. Spending big bucks insulating the roof, then drawing in outside air is a waste. (Much like super insulating your house then leaving a few windows open.) Save that big expense for living areas... radiant for minimizing heat infiltration above that area.
Install spray foam in the UK and it immediately makes your house unsaleable as most mortgage lenders won't lend on a property with it on
Weird as all new houses in new england and canada are foamed. Its the new standard
Ive never seen that in Germany either, i think its not approved by anybody. And how americans build houses is insane... paper thin walls, no insulation under their floors, no insulation between rooms, single glas Windows
@@CookieMonster-vn6zb Dude you're 100 years late. I'm a European and I live in the US and houses are built super well these days. Yes the walls are framed in wood but they are pretty solid due to the way they are engineered together. Unless you're building a bunker in a tornado area this is appropriate. Most places don't have tornadoes in the US..... As far as insulation and various building components they far exceed Europe at this point. Insulation is super thick, VASTLY more than most existing houses in Europe (on par with new construction in Europe). Windows are triple pane these days. BTW insulating between room doesn't bring energy benefits, only noise insulation IF you need it. Most people don't. Bottom line is you're just another kraut trying to trash non-german things without info.
@CookieMonster-vn6zb where do people get these American stereotypes? Since I started construction 20 years ago, I've never seen a new single pane window installed, our thinnest walls are framed in 2x4 lumber and are about 4 inches thick, we absolutely insulate under floors unless the crawl space or basement is a completely conditioned area and in that case the walls of the conditioned space is insulated, and insulating interior walls does nothing for efficiency and if only good for reducing sound which may people do for that reason but it isn't mandatory.
@CookieMonster-vn6zb double pane windows were literally invented in America. I'm not trying to be offensive, but I believe a lot of the things Europeans make up about America comes from a strange inferiority complex.
Just install PIR with batons to leave an air gap…
Spray foam is the death of roofing and can cause many long term problems…
I don't disagree, with a typical roof. But in a flat roof situation, some roofers want a closed cell foam to prevent moisture from getting to the decking. Especially with hot to cold transfer.
@@Black_Dirt_Contractorif it’s a hit roof, spray foam is probably ok, just can’t do it on a cold roof that needs any type of ventilation.
I’ve just had to redo my entire roof that had really crap “wool in plastic bags” installed, it’s a cold roof in a home built in the 1800’s, so i’ve had to batton it and use PIR for best insulation, but still providing that breathable airgap. It’s been “fun”… 🤣👍🏼🤣
Putting on a lighter color of roofing is a smart idea, gives you waaaaay less solar gain in the attic.
I'm in Canada, radiant barrier is joke here. Foam or traditional bats, but not aginst sheeting. Condensation will rot you out in few years. Always leave an air gap between the sheeting and insulation.
Why anyone would use spray foam in 2024 is crazy to me.
Maybe you just don't understand foam.
What I did was bridge the wood heat gap, put radiant foam sheets on the rafters and wood, and then spray foam over the foam. My attic temp in GA is ambient to whatever the house was set to, minus three days. My house sits at 70 degrees. My roof has zero moisture.
That you know of.
@tinacarter8785 yes, that I know of. And I don't have a radon leak. That I know of. Because I check it all the time.
Always, always, always need an air flow movement gap between walls, roof and interior insulation. I used lathe vertically so air is always moving and allowing exterior walls to dry and wick moisture.
Unvented roofs are common these days and work if certain precautions are made
I’m a fan of houses not costing $500k
So here is a FYI in England banks don't loan money on homes that have Been spray foamed
That silver paint is doing absolutely nothing. You either have it underneath everything with an air gap or on the exterior sheathing with an air gap just under your final layer. The point is to reflect radiant heat but if its touching the foil it conducts the heat right through.
This is false. Radiant barriers work by both high reflectivity and low emissivity. In this case the foil has low emissivity in important parts of the infrared spectrum.
I.e it is reducing the infrared emissions of the roof on the side which is the inside on the house - which will cause a corresponding increase in IR emissions to the outside.
In my part of the country if it’s not a living space, it is not insulated, just ventilated. But I could see the purpose of a radiant barrier in a very hot climate to keep some of the heat out, or maybe even the spray foam. We usually just insulate between the living space and the attic.
Spray foam is freaking amazing how well it insulates!
Spray foam is 100times better I have it in my attic and the temp in my attic year around is always 10 degrees different from the temp in my home. Spray foam attic is 100% the way to go.
Insulate your living space from the attic, not your attic from the roof.
You and I inner stand that spraying foam on the roof substrate is a Terrible Idea.
If you have HVAC equipment, you need to insulate the roof to protect the equipment from unnecessary wear from the blistering heat or from leaks when it's below freezing. Think of your attic like a vestibule, if the roof is properly insulated, it won't cost as much to heat/cool the 2nd floor. If you're only insulating the floor of the attic, now your 2nd floor is going to require more energy to heat/cool. Pay monthly bills for the extra energy required or pay for insulation once? Keep in mind that outside the roof it might be 100° but inside the attic it's 150°. You're fighting more extreme temperatures if you're not insulating at the roof. Spray foam or insulation batts? Your call.
@@notjamesiha I don't understand why people use foam when there is wool, that thing breaths and correct use of foil works wonders, esspecially with HVAC stuff... I'm a euro', We use wool extensively on roofs of houses - it keeps the house warm during Winter, cool in the summer.
Also great point about costs, that's the only reason I increased My insulation, it decreased the energy requiered for heating by 20kwh on an' average Winter day 😅 + 11kwh on cooling during summer.
All with just a foot thick, decent wool, previously there were 4 niches of trashy poorly installed and worn down Glass wool.
Return of investment in 5yrs was the theory, energy went up enough, along side instalation and material costs - it will be 2yrs tops.
Greetings
do both.
Comprehend is a much better synonym.@@peterparker9286
Radiant Barrier every time. Spray foam basically dooms your ability to get your home appraised for reselling, because if the foam is in their way they see the rafters to inspect for mold/integrity
Radiant Barrier works with an air gap. Putting it on the bottom side of the plywood so it actually is in contact is stupid.
Also spray foaming the underside of your roof can void homeowners insurance.
Radiant Barrier decking was designed to reflect the heat back upward that's why in real hot climates it causes the shingles to buckle. So insulating it with spray foam does not matter
False. The radiant barrier decking simply reduces the amount of heat flow from the already hot roof into the attic by reducing the amount of infrared radiation from the aluminum surface on the inside of the attic.
Insulation is like a giant air tight sweater.
Radiant barrier is like adding a huge tree for shade. It's well worth it. If the attic is finished, add flip the radiant and add arched wood battens to keep the deck mostly clean with an airgap. Tiles or metal roofing.
If the attic is unfinished, it's a pretty big energy waste to condition an attic. Vent the attic, add R60+ & staple breathable radiant barrier to the joists.
Just did an attic retrofit. It's not a finished attic, so we used R-60. But air sealed where we could and added radiant barrier on all but the North rafters (steep roof & trees and saving a few hrs time directed that decision). It was well worth it. Radiant images shows the radiant reduces the attic underside temp 30° compared to the north side. Insulation only scatters radiant heat, it doesn't do a great job reflecting it.
We will be comparing this year's to last year's energy bills soon.
But the most recent month comparison was $300 vs. $11. But this also includes an upgraded more efficient split system.
the guy doing this video also doesn't seem to fully comprehend how radiant barrier works
Do not use either it's all about the airflow because it's not just about the heat but also the moisture the most important thing is moving the moisture to prevent mold also many shingle manufacturers say if you use spray foam underneath the roof deck it will void your warranty. Spend the money on doing it on the ceiling space Best bang for your buck.
If the insurance company finds out, they'll cancel your policy for using foam between the rafters. Makes detecting a roof leak impossible, and your sheathing will rot from above. DONT DO IT.
BS.
an absolute mold farm
I would never use spray foam. Stuff is a nightmare to remove when shit goes wrong. Your roof deck needs to breathe. Nothing wrong with insulation and soffit vents and a ride vent. If the decking gets wet it can dry out. Spray foam will keep the moisture locked in.
Don't insulate the rafters. insulate ceiling joist . If you do insulate rafters you are going to burn you're shingles up .
That radiant barrier doesn't work anyways. The airgap has to be between the sheathing and the barrier, since it's touching the sheathing it does nothing.
You don't attach it straight to it.
@@stevepest4143 Idk what you mean, the radiant barrier in this video is a coating on the OSB sheathing.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 did you notice him talking about the gap when the illustrations came up?
@@stevepest4143 Yeah he talked about it, but not correctly. The radiant barrier has to have a gap between it and the sheathing, if it's touching the sheathing it won't work.
@bobbygetsbanned6049 true. Which was shown in both the diagram and mentioned verbally.
This video touches on the insulation video from last week.
A radiant barrier and spray foam on the roof decking have a place in construction and can work well together, if detailed correctly.
As you said, you need an air gap for the radiant barrier to work. As it blocks the radiation from the sun, the air gap allows air flow to dissipate the heat.
Spray foam in attics isn’t even allowed under building code in some areas because of the risk of rot caused if there is a leak or there isn’t enough ability for the building to breathe.
Aluminium is a great conductor, that's why there must be a gap.
SPRAY FOAM IS A RIPOFF!
Absolutely
Oh dear, don’t go anywhere near spray foam in residential, ok for some commercial applications though.
What’s the diff?
@@corvettedude Spray foam makes it almost impossible to find leaks before something rots, it's porous so bugs can get in, it burns quickly and is toxic while doing so, and it's extremely hard to remove. It's the popcorn ceiling of insulation.
In the UK mortgage providers often consider roofs insulated with spray foam un-mortgageable because of the black mould and rot issue which occurs when the rafters become the coldest surface in winter sometimes hitting the dew point and soaking the timbers.
Before you put in spray foam put up more ventes so condensation can pass through the wood and pass through the air vents.
A problem that's not mentioned is that when you insulate the sheathing, it blocks the heat, but that heat cooks the shingles and will reduce the life of your roof by years.
The $15 a month on electricity saved will never offset the additional $4k for early roof replacement.
Tell me you know nothing about physics without telling me.
Because the heat in the attic is worse for the shingles than the direct sunlight, UV rays and constant weather it gets 365 days a year 🤔
Spray foam sucks
Yea, I know, I miss all those high power bills trying to keep the house cool in the summer. Bummer.
In Arizona I added radiant barrier to the roof decking. I had a thermometer up there before and after. Before attic temps would reach 155-160 in the hot summer. Now after, hottest the attic ever gets is 130-135. Only did radiant barrier on about 75% of roof decking
For moderate climates (midwestern US for example) do neither. Instead: 1. Vent the roof adequately with vents and or turbines. 2. Use baffles like durovent to keep insulation from blocking soffit airflow. 3. Insulate sills between joists up to durovent with pink foam board. 4. Insulate ceiling between and across joist with fiberglass wool or blow in (careful not to cover some lights or fans unless manufacturer allows)to 30” depth or more depending on recommended R value in your area (google search attic R value for your location). Done. This will keep heat from melting and refreezing snow causing ice to form and rot the roof.
WTF. Spray foam? What about when a fire happens? That stuff melts and will drip down on anything below...
Rovk wool, glass wool, wood fiber... These are good choices for roof insulation....
Nope, I tested my foam, it does NOT support combustion. Even when dipped in gasoline as soon as the gasoline flame buns out it snuffs out.
@@trex2092 I'm not talking about holding a lighter on it. What happens at 800 °C and more?
Ask a firefighter how hot houses become when they burn and what they think about the foams and Styrols...
I think dripping foam is the least of your worries in a house fire with extreme temps.
@@corvettedude our houses burn differently than USA homes. It makes a huge difference to have a brick, concrete or clay layer separating the different floors. Houses usually don't burn down completely unless some foams are involved, because they spread the fire and are difficult to extinguish.
We have high tech insulation materials such as wood fiber, which remain stable in a case of fire and emit much less toxins to the air. Wood fiber is especially popular for the roof because of how well it protects against the summer heat and that of the solar panels.
I think the industry created the confusion about "radiant barrier" and give radiant barrier a bad reputation.
Not a fan of toxic spray foam especially in the attic during hot summers and rainy humid areas.
A little warning, spray foam insulation in can make your house uninsurable and/or unmortgageable because the rafters can't be inspected. That's the case in UK at least.
I put a radiant barrier on my 10k toilet....good idea ??
Here in AU we have the foil (sarking) but also foil/sarking with about 50mm of insulation attached proving both cooling and warmth in the roof cavity.Did my whole roof few years ago and have found good benefits in cost saving particularly in summer keeping the house much cooler (far western NSW) would never consider spray foam
You missed the part where radiant barrier isn't intended to be used by itself, but with fiberglass or mineral wool bat insulation installed a couple inches off the surface of the radiant barrier. There are three modes of heat transfer: Radiation, Conduction, and Convection. The radiant barrier has very low emissivity and is designed to reduce the amount of radiant heat transfer into the building from the sun beating down on the roof. It does not, however, reduce conductive heat transfer (which is what insulation is for), so if you touch it all of that heat will come through to your hand or to any insulation you put up against it. In most cases a properly installed radiant barrier with bat or foam board insulation installed with the necessary air gap will keep the attic cooler than spray foam. It is also far easier to detect leaks and to make roof repairs than when you use spray foam. Also, if you live somewhere that gets cold in the winter and hot in the summer, the expansion and contraction of the wood framing can cause the monolithic rigid spray foam to crack and separate from the wall.
Every product has it positives and negatives, but unless your house is in a very specific climate and is designed appropriately for it, I wouldn't use spray foam in the attic, especially on the underside of the roof. It is excellent for below slab insulation and for insulating basement walls when installed correctly, and can also be a great choice for difficult to insulate areas and to help make that air barrier transition from the basement wall to the wood framing. However, it is not the best choice for every place you need insulation, and is more often than not the wrong choice.
Spray foaming the underside of the roof is a very bad idea. Popular though! LOL
I saw a comparison of the flammability of silver back, spray foam, rockwool and paper backed fiberglass insulations. The spray foam is HIGHLY flammable. The silver backed took longer to ignite, but did burn. The rockwool had scorch marks where the torch was applied. That’s all. The paper backed fiberglass burned up the paper fairly fast but no fire damage to the fiberglass.
Metal roof with proper uv reflective paint will actually drop attic temps 30+° with none of that foam compared to traditional asphalt shingles and on the plus side when your roof does leak you will know quickly because that foam you will notice your roof leaks after everything is rotted
Yeah, and if you absolutely must have more insulation, rockwool dampens sound, is totally inert, and also doesn't burn.
Until you have a roof leak that you didn’t know about; and now you have rotting boards from the water sitting between the foam and sheathing for years.
Some states require a certain R factor from your roof and shingles alone usually will not get you there, there are “cool” roofs but that R factor is not calculated by what is in your attic but is calculated toward how much it keeps out of your attic
White metal roof exterior helps too!
You can put the air space on the roof side then spray foam on top of the lower side. You need furring strips. I personally will not be using any spray foam in my projects.
You will not get a mortgage on a house if you have spray foam in it
Um, no. The foil reflects RADIATION. The worst it can do is slightly heat the insulation, but the radiation has ALREADY GONE right THROUGH that insulation once... An air gap will do nothing to help or hinder (except add a small amount of insulation whether or not there is foil).
Just adding my 2 cents: The radiant barrier must be at least 1/2" from the plywood on the roof to allow for the heat to turn to IR which can be reflected. I'm not sure putting radiant barrier on top of foam backing and placing the foam backing directly on the plywood on the roof will work.
That being said, you are right about the foam. If foam should go into the attic, it needs to be placed on the top part of the ceiling to seal any gaps there while air is permitted to come int through the attic soffit and up through the top attic ridge vent.
HVAC Estimator in Arizona. Radiant barrier is great. Spray foam is even better. I'd be happy if more attic enclosures had either upgrade.