ur commentry is so intelligent yet there's also alot of shit smudged in, its the best contrast and it works so well, i could listen to you all day, so entertaining lool i deffo appreciate these podcasts
"I am not gonna spill the beans. But there are some beans, and I could spill'em, and if I spilled these beans, there would be beans all over the fucking place! There are beans to spill here." Watch this part in half speed (0,5). Seriously! Too funny! It starts @ 01:07:30 Look at his facial expression while he is saying this. There should be a realityseries where we just followed life of Aris and his golden quotes!
I think Lei should be one tier higher, but other than that I think i'm pretty okay with this tier list. Also always fun to hear Aris share his ideas, he has such good ways of eloquently sharing his ideas lol.
"Alright, so he's using Lars and... I didn't see his secondary character. Well, I see Lars and this team already looks cheap!" (c) Bronson Tran This ATP episode is hella tight! I want part 2 where you talk about the rest of the characters.
For pad players, you can unbind commands to your back shoulder buttons (On PS3&4 pads at least) and just drum them to make constant loud clicks, probably the best way to dead button as a pad player thanks to those quiet buttons
I somewhat agree with Aris`s thoughts on clone teams. It is an advantage to not have to think about strategies when you switch characters. But on the other hand, having a non-clone team also makes your opponent have to think more, because he now has to fight 2 different characters with different moves and different strategies. I think that can be somewhat advantageous as well. I am not a competitive player, but that's my 2 cents worth.
woah! by watching this episode i leveled up my ability in understandin tournament tekken matches by alot. presented in such high quality, best vidyo games talk i ever seen!
The psychological warfare thing is scary as hell. I've felt it. Tournament grand finals, my friend using Raven/Zafina, he would be spacing things out and whatnot, but suddenly, he would dash up to me continuously while making loud noises with the pad. You know how those characters are, they won't stay still. I just held back. Next thing I knew, I was next to the wall. Also, I've been a Lars/Kunimitsu player ever since TTT2 came out. I agree with Kunimitsu's position in your tier list. She's not a proper tournament character. Safe df2, homing moves up the ass, CH launchers, Setsunagake pressure (Yoshi can flash her to death, though), decent punishment, terrible lows. I find that she has especially good synergy with Lars, since both have deadly wall combos and carries and they have tag fillers for every sort of combo. Lars can sandwich ws2~F, SE1 everything and Kuni still gets a lot of damage with f4~F, SET 4 as an ender. Kuni is a weak Lars with shenanigans, although her potential is unexplored. I see nobody catching tag crashes or hitting grounded opponents with Dust 3, among other stuff I've researched on.
Does tracking matter? As Lars and Kuni are very weak if the opponent steps right. I think if Kunimitsu hasd a scary low and maybe a crouch dash or more useful moves to enter crouch she would be a bit better.
BigManWithCa$h I don't really think tracking is a problem, since Lars has his godly b1 and Kuni has homing moves up the ass. Kunimitsu would definitely benefit from having a scary low. She's lacking there. She doesn't have many moves that force the opponent into a situation either. It's either minor frame advantage or knockdown into okizeme. She has a pretty good moveset if you place things right, lots of safe options, wall splats and CH launchers, but somehow they don't come together. She's missing something cheap.
Ocelot Personally I think her wall game is pretty weak too. As she hasn't got any good mid wall splatters that are safe, b2 is -10 so sharp players can save themselves at the wall and b4,3 is nice damage but if you use it when their back isn't directly towards the wall you can sometimes be punished by long range moves. IMO she really needs gimmicks to get a wall splat w/ b11~db334 and her d1+2 3 or catch your opponent with a f2,3 punish. Also her safe wallsplatting mid f1+2 shouldn't do that silly animation as you can't get a bound. :-(
BigManWithCa$h I think she's pretty good at the wall. b2 is -10 but if you space it properly, nobody can touch you. The fact that she has b2 should make an opponent with a head paranoid, because the move has retarded range and it's a homing mid, also hard to punish. I think f3+4 also wall splats. Safe high homing move. She can trap people in the corner. I think her d1+2, 3 isn't really meant to be used like that. I use it for okizeme. Beats any type of get up kicks, hits grounded and beats tag crash. Yes, pretty much what I do is poke with df1 and d4, back up a little bit and throw out a b2, b4 into a BT mix up, b4,3 or punish something with f2,3. And yeah, what's the deal with f1+2? That one good mid she's supposed to have, equivalent to Jin's ff2, becomes useless because of that cute ninja crap she does afterwards.
I pretty much agree with your list Aris, excellent list, I'll keep to stick with the Mishimas because they are the most appropriate characters to train and test my Tekken fundamental skills. The reason why i refuse to use Bob & Lars is because as you said in your tutorial, relying too much on abusable cheap moves that can singlehandedly beat most of the moves that your opponent throws at you, can really hinder your growth as a Tekken Player, and unfortunately Bob & Lars has tons of that moves.
Strongstyle was great! Had such a great and awesome time. Learned a good amount too. Great to meet other tekken players and to meet the big name people. An inspiration as well. -guy who had the pink controller you signed
tier lists are curious, their incredibly subjective and everyone should have their own. Also, we should think about what charachters we are weak against. Awesome job Arris
I agree 100% about how you view tier lists. A character's ease of use should be taken into account for sure. For example, Lars is just about as good as DJ in pretty much every aspect but he's completely easy to play in comparison, and so he should be ranked higher because the chances of you fucking up in the heat of the moment are so much smaller.
This episode is only available by clicking on the link on your website. Is this intentional? It didn't pop up in my subscription box since it isn't listed.
Jin and Kazuya above Nina = I don't agree with. Nina easily has 10 times the tools(Kenpo > Karate lol). Without the EWGF, Kazuya is Weak imho. Nearly everything in his arsenal is unsafe lol and he requires a REALLY skilled player to utilize him.
would you say that in spite of Kazuya's Devil form? But yeah, I'd agree that Nina should go higher. Kazuya still has Hell Sweeps, Twin Pistons, PEWGF and db +2?
I would... as Devil form doesn't make him much better imo. The hell sweeps can be annoying as hell for some as they are hard to see coming. PEWGF...again, without it, Kazuya and his ultra Defensive style isn't much of a threat imho(as few can perform it consistently anyway). He simply doesn't have the tools that Heihachi and that damn Devil Jin(who is a BEAST) possess. My hat goes off to the people who are Good with him...he's hard as hell to play with lol
I enjoy this realness. A very simple in-game psychology example is Paul's death fist(especially on CH). A lot of peeps get pissy and recklessly rush or they play very defensively. It is very interesting how the mind work. Btw if you play Alisa, Lili, or Lucky Chloe you have already won half the mind battles(spam taunts too).
Aris' s tier list is very different from help me's tier list posted on tekkencentral I understand that the tier list is very opinion oriented and not all people have similar view of the character but I found that help me's tier list was generally accepted or conceived as definitive list which baffles me But still , I would really like to hear from aris's point of view on this matter is it b/c of the console vs arcade scene or general fighting style difference between players from different regions.
Nice writeup. See I actually think that more games should have the 'technical' tier lists and the 'practical' tier lists-like you put it, a character may be technically insane if played at 100%, but how feasible is it to play said character at 100% with the lights bearing down, the store being robbed and the car crash happening next to you? I do have a question, however. First, I agree with Dragunov being A tier. Now tier lists adjust a bit over time of course as stuff is found out(Drag I remember went from around B to A on most lists as time went on in TTT2 between 2012-2013), but what was your personal shift in opinion there? I recall in your tutorial(which I know is like a year old or so?) you had him more in the top 20 range(which would put him more around the B range), but that I noticed shifted to putting him more around the top 10 here and quite up there. Anyway I can get behind this list from a practical sense.
With kaz do you feel you cannot win with him at the top level because of his lack of good pokes? Obv. he has to be paired with a poking character but kaz on his own, hei/dvj just simply better options?
Avoiding The Puddle Aris, dude... now I can understand why JDCR couldn't answer the question on who would be the best characters to pick on a tournament even after mentioning Mishimas. You even layed it out, it's hard. That being said, I'm sticking to this as my top 10: SS Tier: Mishimas (Kazuya only happens to be there cause of his Devil form, fair amount of Mishimas for a reason but still not overused like other games where tier whoring happens) S+ Tier: Lars, Bruce, Nina (I might put Bob up here, Nina and Lars can be seen as SS for me at times, I think anyone in this list can be seen as Mishima tier. Nina requires more skill, less likely to be top tier because of the skill gap) S Tier: Bob, Dragunov, Bryan, Jinpachi (originally had Feng but knocked him down and I always though that Jinpachi was either being overlooked or just underrated and thought to myself... why?) My foundation is primarily based on Nobi's tier list (my favorite and most detailed and well explained tier list from any top player) and from what I've seen on offline competition. I try to ignore things that are on "paper" seeing as they are hard to apply in battle and tend to be very conditional.
kazuya requires precision input and timing at all times to get consistent wins. he also lacks panic moves and fast mids. jin has a few mow mix ups. that makes him a more effective tourney character. i love playing lei, but i found that overall he is weaker on tt2 and not worth the effort to use regularly. bob, lars, julia, armor king, jack and bruce are definitely top tier competition characters.
Jin is potentially a top 3 character if the player can use his parry to a godlike level. Dragunov's running 2 is a good example. A skilled Jin player can effectively neutralise the very thing that makes Drag so good. Just my opinion :)
He doesn't need the parry. As a Jin player it is impossible to use it effectively. You're not parrying every single move. Jin is not top 3 because lack of dedication.
i totally agree with aris. we only have so much brain power, if you focus it on one character, you will get more consistent and better with that character.
I have been playing mishimas for a little over a year and I agree with what you said. I dont find Kazuya equal to the other Mishima because he lack 13f mid and has nothing that stand out to him. CH D/F2 PEWGF come to mind, but it not realistic in a match. I think most people throw jin in middle tier because he lack a fast launchers and his combos are crappy in general.
Not only that, Kazuya's mids aren't really good too, they either leave him at -7f or worst on block, or are slow, he also has trouble to track to his right (Well, All Mishimas have, but he takes more risks to stop someone SW him).
Kazuya is high risk, high reward so risks have to be made. Kazuya is only rewarding if your a godly kazuya player with PERFECT execution and punishiment. How realistic is that in a match? As Aris said, he only good if your a good player. He also lack useable panic move(s). He also a predictable character too.
FallenSerpent Yeah, Kazuya does indeed drive me nuts sometimes. My mix up game improved with WD Twin Pistons since it is hit confirmable but Kazuya being a Mishima that lacks offensive power aka aggressive pokes like Devil Jin and Heihachi is annoying. Nothing makes it more apparent than when you play a character like Bruce or Bryan or Lars. Kazuya was always boasted as the strongest Mishima on paper. Which I hate. Players boast about his PEWGF 13F punish when no one player alive has mastered the entire game to the point in which they can constantly keep doing it. It's like when people brag that Jin would be the best character in the game if you mastered his parry. The most infuriating thing about Kazuya is playing vs easier characters and seeing what they can do(like the ones I mentioned above) and you at times wonder why even bother with Kazuya.
its kinda sad.. but I heavily agree that Steve "kinda" sucks.. first of all, he's on of those characters who's as good as the player that controls him.. then there's the fact that he's not intimidating at all if you just play patiently against him.. his lows are limited and his fishing type of character makes him extremely situational, more then ANY other character in the entire game in opinion.. I still love playing as him.. but I have to admit that I haven't dropped him because.. I like him too much lol
Honestly, It probably wouldn't be his cup of tea DoA is one of those fighting games that is so different from tekken, there would be a shit storm for aris. The counter system in DoA alone is a massive slap in the face for any player who is used to punishing combos ,pokes, and launchers... Even the throws in DoA can generate mix ups
I don't think Lars should be higher than Devil Jin, simply for the reason he's up there. I feel like Devil Jin has better tag options than Lars, AND he does better one-on-one.
I hear Lars is supposed to be really good but I think Devil Jin and Heihachi are way better if you have execution. I think that was the main reason why Aris put Lars there because he requires no execution. Also besides from Lars combo damage and crushing, his pokes are not really too special and his lows are risky. Also his tracking is very weak compared to Hei and Devil Jin. IMO Devil Jin and Heihachi do everything better than Lars except for crushing and combo damage.
I also think any tournament-level Mishima player never has to be worried about execution, pressure from the match or no. Once that's out of the way, DJ literally does everything Lars does better. All DJ ever needs to worry about it EWGF when it comes to high-level execution.
adam renan In the open they all do respectable damage. However the Mishimas combos are way harder than Lars' combos. At the wall Lars is a monster. Lars' f4121 hits no matter how many hits on the wall before the bound. The last hit of the move does unscaled damage. This move is like one of the best enders and fillers in the game. His Rejection throw into shoulder always does 27 damage. As the damge is unscaled. Hei and DJ can't compete to Lars at the wall. Nevertheless they still have some pretty good options especially Heihachi.
Laser scraper is basically a homing move, ff4 plus on block good dmg, f1+2 deadly wallspatting mid. Devil Jin has awesome tracking, his df1,2 tracks somewhat. I don't see why you would pick Kauzya over Devil Jin. Kazuya's tracking is ass. His df2 is awesome but if it gets blocked your gonna eat like 40 damage.
As a Jin player, I don't agree with him being that high on the list. It seems suspect. Mid Tier feels legit for him because he's not great at everything. He's just..solid. Only reason he's that high is probably cause of the parry. I think Feng, Nina, & Miguel are much better characters.
I agree with everything Aris is saying. He's underrated. Up until TAG 2, I always thought Jin was sort of lacking. To be honest, I thought he was shit but I've stuck with him. He seemed like a type of character that you didn't have to know much about since he has no gimmicks, he has no cheap shit he can fall back on, average/weak damage, not enough tools for tense moments, etc. You just didn't have to worry about him. Now, he has things to be worried about. ZEN cancel: Very good for baiting moves that you can punish. Great CH setups off f+4~f. cd+3: Homing move & good for KND to get the pressure off you. Can be done out of WD. Amazing wakeup opportunities with b,f+2,3 into ZEN. db+4: Everyone knows about this move. But the most interesting thing about it is that it has some undiscovered tech. When you land a standing 4 after db+4 & it trades with jabs, he will have +15 advantage. For example if I trade & immediately follow up with 2,4, it's guaranteed. You can easily test this out in practice mode. ws+1,2: Some other tech I've discovered is that on wakeup, going into ZEN after ws+1,2 as a spike ender, he can use a number of followups. ZEN 1 catches back roll & goes into a reset. ZEN 4 will hit grounded & side rolling opponents. ZEN 3 catches the opponent standing. If they block it, he gets massive frame advantage. Also, another neat thing about it is that you can cancel ZEN into cd+1 & catch ducking opponents on wakeup. This also crushes both wakeup kicks. ZEN cancel into cd+2 will crush mid wakeup kicks & it gives a similar KND to CH EWHF. ZEN cancel into Hellsweep is good for mixups. CDS 4: Scary at the wall because of ws+1,2B! And it's a great mixup with CDS 1,2. He has more but those were just moves & setups I don't see other people utilizing. I know I missed something. With that being said, I believe in the right hands, Jin can be more than a solid character. I think he's well rounded & extremely balanced. He has some untapped potential that people aren't looking into. The good thing about him is that not everybody uses him the same, I see a contrast in other players. I would consider myself a unique Jin player.
***** You should note that those setups are very rare & they're not promising. For example, the ws+1,2~f ZEN mixups. You need to condition the opponent but thanks though. I watched some of Eloge's videos before. The goal for me is to master Jin as much as possible. He's definitely one of those characters who requires the player to have strong fundamentals to be effective. I'm still finding hidden tech with him & it's amazing. Maybe that's what I'll do with my channel if I get a better camera. Post all of my ideas with him & share it with fellow Jin players or people who wanna pick him up. I had videos but I took them down. Maybe I'll do my own tutorial in the future. This could be beneficial for me since I know so much about him.
so you said: "clone teams are very strong", "it's important that the combo are easy to execute even in a big crowd", "damage output it's a thing to take in consideration", "poking tools are a thing wich make the difference from a good character or a bad character", "characters like kazuya bruce and lars are too easy to understand and the best would be a thing wich mindfucks your opponent"... considering this...why the hell bears are in the extreme bottom of the list? they do a helluva damage, the hunting stance is one of the most mindfucking things in the game, they are completely personal to use because you can play more on the ground or more standing, the have a lot of things for poking and those pokes do really a lot of damage. the only thing that they lack the most is a quick strong punish but is this only thing enough to put them on the bottom?
So I've started playing Tekken when Revolution came out bout 2 years ago. For some reason i've started playing with the hardest character in the game. so now fast forward 2 years and i main the mishimas Kazuya and Heihachi). but now i was wondering what character that are easier to play with on my level because i am having a hard time. Also I really hate scrubby, cheap and gimmicky character. Anyone has any ideas who should I try?
BigManWithCa$h sorry gimmicks is for capos and yoshi. Bruce and Bob are actually harder to play with that the characters you mentioned. And yes Jinpachi and Jack are gimmicky AF
Abubakr Omar They don't suck at all... Lol Jun has great mixups, her parry is almost as cheap as Asuka's and she can reverse grabs. Lili is also a solid character.
I don't think TTT2 is a factually balanced game.It "seems" balanced because of the sheer difficulty it takes to actually render characters obsolete and because how actually playing is completely different from on paper stuff. You need to be at a very high level for tier lists to actually matter (most people aren't)But when you do reach that level the differences become humongous. The game has so many artificial difficulty barriers.
I don't understand why Angel is in shitebag tier. I understand she the worse Mishima out of the 4. But she is still a Mishima. She still has Electric's and Hell Sweeps. ans she still has Mishima level of damage.
Yes. These moves you mention, the staple Mishima moves, electric, 1,1,2, hellsweep, still hold very high levels of usefulness. It's what makes her not total shit tier. And just another one of the reasons for why Aris is wrong in this. Weak tier, like B- tiers, aren't total shit.
FutileExistence Being a diehard Angel player myself, I can name her weakenesses better than you or Aris himself can. Just a few, for the time being: lack of decent backdash, lack of 14 frame or faster mids, lack of worthy high crushes, arm reach on the shorter side, lack of 15f WS launcher. Angel misconceptions: lack of damage, low damage lows.
Her flaws are just too bad and her good points are shared with the male mishimas. Therefore why not pick DJ, Kaz, or Hei, they do exactly what Angel can do good but better.
![13 Characters in Top 10: Aris' Tekken 7 Tier List [Season 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_VB1HCSiiYE/mqdefault.jpg)
The intro sounded like you were about to spit the hottest verses of 2014 lol
So true lol, i thought so also
I realize Im kind of off topic but does anybody know a good place to stream new movies online ?
@@guskian4605 fmovies
I made a mistake! I'll fix it!
I thought you were rapping at the beginning hahaha
lol samee ahahaha
I know right haha
Lmaoooo hell yeah
Me too, just lost it for like 30 minutes.
Hey, alright
"Try doing 3 EWGF in a 7-11 while it's getting robbed" XDDD
Holy shit he was so formal back then look at him go
I've never watched Aris before today, but he's both hilarious and knowledgeable. Such a joy to watch him talk.
ur commentry is so intelligent yet there's also alot of shit smudged in, its the best contrast and it works so well, i could listen to you all day, so entertaining lool i deffo appreciate these podcasts
This analysis of Aris' tier list kind of makes me want to play top tiers and main Lars/Devil Jin now...
...not Bob though, I still value my dignity.
This isn't Tekken 6 lol, and most tier lists we know put Mishimas on top, Devil Jin being the best of them
I play lars he's really cool but ppl want to call me a scrub for it
Demitri Reznov
Ignore that guy, he's a troll. Also what the fuck did you even say? lol
I said i play as lars but ppl call me scrub so i stop using him and pick feng instead for my jin
*****
You describe the shitty aspects of the online Tekken community in a nutshell. K, goodbye.
Look at him being a gentleman .. now it is all " You !! you know what ?? fuck youuuu !!! anyways happy ramadan " 🤣🤣🤣
"I am not gonna spill the beans. But there are some beans, and I could spill'em, and if I spilled these beans, there would be beans all over the fucking place! There are beans to spill here."
Watch this part in half speed (0,5). Seriously! Too funny! It starts @ 01:07:30
Look at his facial expression while he is saying this. There should be a realityseries where we just followed life of Aris and his golden quotes!
This was in my recommended list in 2021 and im watching it lol aris was so different.
Thanks to Tekken mostly he got his ugly ass hairline :) but he's still funny at least
Aris sounds so much happier here...
He was stoned
that's top tier twitch acting
Ye
I think Lei should be one tier higher, but other than that I think i'm pretty okay with this tier list. Also always fun to hear Aris share his ideas, he has such good ways of eloquently sharing his ideas lol.
"Alright, so he's using Lars and... I didn't see his secondary character. Well, I see Lars and this team already looks cheap!" (c) Bronson Tran
This ATP episode is hella tight! I want part 2 where you talk about the rest of the characters.
For pad players, you can unbind commands to your back shoulder buttons (On PS3&4 pads at least) and just drum them to make constant loud clicks, probably the best way to dead button as a pad player thanks to those quiet buttons
I somewhat agree with Aris`s thoughts on clone teams. It is an advantage to not have to think about strategies when you switch characters.
But on the other hand, having a non-clone team also makes your opponent have to think more, because he now has to fight 2 different characters with different moves and different strategies. I think that can be somewhat advantageous as well.
I am not a competitive player, but that's my 2 cents worth.
Correct. Clone teams were a double-edged sword in this game.
Fighting game mindset Aris is the best Aris to me.
the most epic intro ever
woah! by watching this episode i leveled up my ability in understandin tournament tekken matches by alot. presented in such high quality, best vidyo games talk i ever seen!
Awesome episode Aris. Let's continue with more than 62 ^_^
And it was here many years ago, that started the new era of ultra instinct as Aris talks about it, six years before Dragon Ball super
omg Aris with headset...my life is complete
"Joey Jo Jo is now mindfucked." LOL
The psychological warfare thing is scary as hell. I've felt it. Tournament grand finals, my friend using Raven/Zafina, he would be spacing things out and whatnot, but suddenly, he would dash up to me continuously while making loud noises with the pad. You know how those characters are, they won't stay still. I just held back. Next thing I knew, I was next to the wall.
Also, I've been a Lars/Kunimitsu player ever since TTT2 came out. I agree with Kunimitsu's position in your tier list.
She's not a proper tournament character. Safe df2, homing moves up the ass, CH launchers, Setsunagake pressure (Yoshi can flash her to death, though), decent punishment, terrible lows.
I find that she has especially good synergy with Lars, since both have deadly wall combos and carries and they have tag fillers for every sort of combo. Lars can sandwich ws2~F, SE1 everything and Kuni still gets a lot of damage with f4~F, SET 4 as an ender.
Kuni is a weak Lars with shenanigans, although her potential is unexplored. I see nobody catching tag crashes or hitting grounded opponents with Dust 3, among other stuff I've researched on.
Does tracking matter? As Lars and Kuni are very weak if the opponent steps right. I think if Kunimitsu hasd a scary low and maybe a crouch dash or more useful moves to enter crouch she would be a bit better.
BigManWithCa$h I don't really think tracking is a problem, since Lars has his godly b1 and Kuni has homing moves up the ass.
Kunimitsu would definitely benefit from having a scary low. She's lacking there. She doesn't have many moves that force the opponent into a situation either. It's either minor frame advantage or knockdown into okizeme.
She has a pretty good moveset if you place things right, lots of safe options, wall splats and CH launchers, but somehow they don't come together. She's missing something cheap.
Ocelot Personally I think her wall game is pretty weak too. As she hasn't got any good mid wall splatters that are safe, b2 is -10 so sharp players can save themselves at the wall and b4,3 is nice damage but if you use it when their back isn't directly towards the wall you can sometimes be punished by long range moves. IMO she really needs gimmicks to get a wall splat w/ b11~db334 and her d1+2 3 or catch your opponent with a f2,3 punish. Also her safe wallsplatting mid f1+2 shouldn't do that silly animation as you can't get a bound. :-(
BigManWithCa$h I think she's pretty good at the wall. b2 is -10 but if you space it properly, nobody can touch you. The fact that she has b2 should make an opponent with a head paranoid, because the move has retarded range and it's a homing mid, also hard to punish. I think f3+4 also wall splats. Safe high homing move. She can trap people in the corner.
I think her d1+2, 3 isn't really meant to be used like that. I use it for okizeme. Beats any type of get up kicks, hits grounded and beats tag crash.
Yes, pretty much what I do is poke with df1 and d4, back up a little bit and throw out a b2, b4 into a BT mix up, b4,3 or punish something with f2,3. And yeah, what's the deal with f1+2? That one good mid she's supposed to have, equivalent to Jin's ff2, becomes useless because of that cute ninja crap she does afterwards.
***** I am not. I have a very defensive style based on spacing, punishment, maximization of combo damage and coordinated okizeme.
I pretty much agree with your list Aris, excellent list,
I'll keep to stick with the Mishimas because they are the most appropriate characters to train and test my Tekken fundamental skills.
The reason why i refuse to use Bob & Lars is because as you said in your tutorial, relying too much on abusable cheap moves that can singlehandedly beat most of the moves that your opponent throws at you, can really hinder your growth as a Tekken Player, and unfortunately Bob & Lars has tons of that moves.
This is one of the only three shows I look forward to every week. Don't ever stop doing this!
wait was he gonna rap on that intro wtf
Strongstyle was great! Had such a great and awesome time. Learned a good amount too. Great to meet other tekken players and to meet the big name people. An inspiration as well.
-guy who had the pink controller you signed
LMFAO im fucking late but was too stoned and thought arnis was rapping at the start 💀
With Rip and Steezy gone we can finally see the full length if Aris beard lol
tier lists are curious, their incredibly subjective and everyone should have their own. Also, we should think about what charachters we are weak against. Awesome job Arris
I agree 100% about how you view tier lists. A character's ease of use should be taken into account for sure. For example, Lars is just about as good as DJ in pretty much every aspect but he's completely easy to play in comparison, and so he should be ranked higher because the chances of you fucking up in the heat of the moment are so much smaller.
You're doing a great job, Aris! (No sarcasm).
Jack 6 definitely deserves to be higher tbh. Like around the top of the 3rd line
This episode is only available by clicking on the link on your website. Is this intentional?
It didn't pop up in my subscription box since it isn't listed.
Jin and Kazuya above Nina = I don't agree with. Nina easily has 10 times the tools(Kenpo > Karate lol). Without the EWGF, Kazuya is Weak imho. Nearly everything in his arsenal is unsafe lol and he requires a REALLY skilled player to utilize him.
would you say that in spite of Kazuya's Devil form? But yeah, I'd agree that Nina should go higher.
Kazuya still has Hell Sweeps, Twin Pistons, PEWGF and db +2?
I would... as Devil form doesn't make him much better imo. The hell sweeps can be annoying as hell for some as they are hard to see coming.
PEWGF...again, without it, Kazuya and his ultra Defensive style isn't much of a threat imho(as few can perform it consistently anyway). He simply doesn't have the tools that Heihachi and that damn Devil Jin(who is a BEAST) possess. My hat goes off to the people who are Good with him...he's hard as hell to play with lol
Now Tekken 8 is around the corner!
I enjoy this realness. A very simple in-game psychology example is Paul's death fist(especially on CH). A lot of peeps get pissy and recklessly rush or they play very defensively. It is very interesting how the mind work.
Btw if you play Alisa, Lili, or Lucky Chloe you have already won half the mind battles(spam taunts too).
I kinda liked this solo edition and I'm really looking forward to that tier list article thing. I'm curious of what you think of every character.
Aris' s tier list is very different from help me's tier list posted on tekkencentral
I understand that the tier list is very opinion oriented and not all people have similar view of the character but I found that help me's tier list was generally accepted or conceived as definitive list which baffles me
But still , I would really like to hear from aris's point of view on this matter
is it b/c of the console vs arcade scene or general fighting style difference between players from different regions.
12:26, I personally think Xiaohai is the best fighting gamer in the world. At least in the 2D realm, I'd like to see more of Tokido's resume. :o
Nice writeup. See I actually think that more games should have the 'technical' tier lists and the 'practical' tier lists-like you put it, a character may be technically insane if played at 100%, but how feasible is it to play said character at 100% with the lights bearing down, the store being robbed and the car crash happening next to you? I do have a question, however. First, I agree with Dragunov being A tier. Now tier lists adjust a bit over time of course as stuff is found out(Drag I remember went from around B to A on most lists as time went on in TTT2 between 2012-2013), but what was your personal shift in opinion there? I recall in your tutorial(which I know is like a year old or so?) you had him more in the top 20 range(which would put him more around the B range), but that I noticed shifted to putting him more around the top 10 here and quite up there. Anyway I can get behind this list from a practical sense.
With kaz do you feel you cannot win with him at the top level because of his lack of good pokes? Obv. he has to be paired with a poking character but kaz on his own, hei/dvj just simply better options?
Thank you for everything. Aris
so great episode Aris, after tekken break (i skipped ttt2 for some reasons) is so entertaining to catching up by ATP casts
Avoiding The Puddle
Aris, dude... now I can understand why JDCR couldn't answer the question on who would be the best characters to pick on a tournament even after mentioning Mishimas. You even layed it out, it's hard. That being said, I'm sticking to this as my top 10:
SS Tier: Mishimas (Kazuya only happens to be there cause of his Devil form, fair amount of Mishimas for a reason but still not overused like other games where tier whoring happens)
S+ Tier: Lars, Bruce, Nina (I might put Bob up here, Nina and Lars can be seen as SS for me at times, I think anyone in this list can be seen as Mishima tier. Nina requires more skill, less likely to be top tier because of the skill gap)
S Tier: Bob, Dragunov, Bryan, Jinpachi (originally had Feng but knocked him down and I always though that Jinpachi was either being overlooked or just underrated and thought to myself... why?)
My foundation is primarily based on Nobi's tier list (my favorite and most detailed and well explained tier list from any top player) and from what I've seen on offline competition. I try to ignore things that are on "paper" seeing as they are hard to apply in battle and tend to be very conditional.
Does anyone know the song in the beginning?
When he brings up the stream, you can see a video he's playing, the Demon Souls OST. Song in question is The Beginning
HOLY SHIET Aris set the camera to streamer mode
We need more solo podcast!! this is brilliant.
It becomes more entertaining when you speak rather then rip cause he speaks fast and i dont enjoy that.
kazuya requires precision input and timing at all times to get consistent wins. he also lacks panic moves and fast mids. jin has a few mow mix ups. that makes him a more effective tourney character. i love playing lei, but i found that overall he is weaker on tt2 and not worth the effort to use regularly. bob, lars, julia, armor king, jack and bruce are definitely top tier competition characters.
Thnx for keeping Tekken fun. Ive been playing since tekken 1. just recently brought to just to try to get good again. THANKS HOMIE
TTT2
Jin is potentially a top 3 character if the player can use his parry to a godlike level. Dragunov's running 2 is a good example. A skilled Jin player can effectively neutralise the very thing that makes Drag so good. Just my opinion :)
Tier lists count both players being on the same level, Jin will never be top 3 because no one will ever guess so many times correctly.
He doesn't need the parry. As a Jin player it is impossible to use it effectively. You're not parrying every single move.
Jin is not top 3 because lack of dedication.
I thought the innate response was when your body reacts to infections or pain faster than other immune systems?like cuts and all that shit
i totally agree with aris. we only have so much brain power, if you focus it on one character, you will get more consistent and better with that character.
so weird seeing aris bring a headphone user
Awesome episode. Keep it up, dude.
Can someone tell me why Angel is so low oh Aris' list?
Catalina. LOL
I enjoy Ricky and Rip being on the show but this was a good episode!
One of the more respectable endings of recent times.
hey puddle is this tier list still relevant
For Tekken 8? ... no 😅
I have been playing mishimas for a little over a year and I agree with what you said. I dont find Kazuya equal to the other Mishima because he lack 13f mid and has nothing that stand out to him. CH D/F2 PEWGF come to mind, but it not realistic in a match. I think most people throw jin in middle tier because he lack a fast launchers and his combos are crappy in general.
Not only that, Kazuya's mids aren't really good too, they either leave him at -7f or worst on block, or are slow, he also has trouble to track to his right (Well, All Mishimas have, but he takes more risks to stop someone SW him).
Kazuya is high risk, high reward so risks have to be made. Kazuya is only rewarding if your a godly kazuya player with PERFECT execution and punishiment. How realistic is that in a match? As Aris said, he only good if your a good player. He also lack useable panic move(s). He also a predictable character too.
FallenSerpent
Yeah, Kazuya does indeed drive me nuts sometimes. My mix up game improved with WD Twin Pistons since it is hit confirmable but Kazuya being a Mishima that lacks offensive power aka aggressive pokes like Devil Jin and Heihachi is annoying. Nothing makes it more apparent than when you play a character like Bruce or Bryan or Lars. Kazuya was always boasted as the strongest Mishima on paper. Which I hate. Players boast about his PEWGF 13F punish when no one player alive has mastered the entire game to the point in which they can constantly keep doing it. It's like when people brag that Jin would be the best character in the game if you mastered his parry.
The most infuriating thing about Kazuya is playing vs easier characters and seeing what they can do(like the ones I mentioned above) and you at times wonder why even bother with Kazuya.
I know exactly how you feel. The ONLY real reason why people play kazuya over the other mishimas is because they just like him as a character.
its kinda sad.. but I heavily agree that Steve "kinda" sucks.. first of all, he's on of those characters who's as good as the player that controls him.. then there's the fact that he's not intimidating at all if you just play patiently against him.. his lows are limited and his fishing type of character makes him extremely situational, more then ANY other character in the entire game in opinion.. I still love playing as him.. but I have to admit that I haven't dropped him because.. I like him too much lol
You've heard me say this like a broken record, but you should really get into Dead Or Alive.
Honestly, It probably wouldn't be his cup of tea
DoA is one of those fighting games that is so different from tekken, there would be a shit storm for aris. The counter system in DoA alone is a massive slap in the face for any player who is used to punishing combos ,pokes, and launchers... Even the throws in DoA can generate mix ups
back when lars was top tier
Now in Tekken 7 Is low tier
Where is the link for the reset?
I love you aris keep talking ill keep supporting
28:10
perfect description of jfj lol
My Mains: Lars, Jin, and Devil Jin!
Unknown is better than Jun. Solid mid tier. Also Angel is better than Zafina.
I don't think Lars should be higher than Devil Jin, simply for the reason he's up there. I feel like Devil Jin has better tag options than Lars, AND he does better one-on-one.
I hear Lars is supposed to be really good but I think Devil Jin and Heihachi are way better if you have execution. I think that was the main reason why Aris put Lars there because he requires no execution.
Also besides from Lars combo damage and crushing, his pokes are not really too special and his lows are risky. Also his tracking is very weak compared to Hei and Devil Jin.
IMO Devil Jin and Heihachi do everything better than Lars except for crushing and combo damage.
I also think any tournament-level Mishima player never has to be worried about execution, pressure from the match or no. Once that's out of the way, DJ literally does everything Lars does better. All DJ ever needs to worry about it EWGF when it comes to high-level execution.
adam renan In the open they all do respectable damage. However the Mishimas combos are way harder than Lars' combos.
At the wall Lars is a monster.
Lars' f4121 hits no matter how many hits on the wall before the bound. The last hit of the move does unscaled damage. This move is like one of the best enders and fillers in the game.
His Rejection throw into shoulder always does 27 damage. As the damge is unscaled.
Hei and DJ can't compete to Lars at the wall. Nevertheless they still have some pretty good options especially Heihachi.
BigManWithCa$h What are DJ's tracking options? I ended up dropping DJ in favor of Kazuya because I felt I was getting stepped too much.
Laser scraper is basically a homing move, ff4 plus on block good dmg, f1+2 deadly wallspatting mid. Devil Jin has awesome tracking, his df1,2 tracks somewhat.
I don't see why you would pick Kauzya over Devil Jin. Kazuya's tracking is ass. His df2 is awesome but if it gets blocked your gonna eat like 40 damage.
As a Jin player, I don't agree with him being that high on the list. It seems suspect. Mid Tier feels legit for him because he's not great at everything. He's just..solid. Only reason he's that high is probably cause of the parry.
I think Feng, Nina, & Miguel are much better characters.
I agree with everything Aris is saying. He's underrated. Up until TAG 2, I always thought Jin was sort of lacking. To be honest, I thought he was shit but I've stuck with him. He seemed like a type of character that you didn't have to know much about since he has no gimmicks, he has no cheap shit he can fall back on, average/weak damage, not enough tools for tense moments, etc. You just didn't have to worry about him. Now, he has things to be worried about.
ZEN cancel: Very good for baiting moves that you can punish. Great CH setups off f+4~f.
cd+3: Homing move & good for KND to get the pressure off you. Can be done out of WD. Amazing wakeup opportunities with b,f+2,3 into ZEN.
db+4: Everyone knows about this move. But the most interesting thing about it is that it has some undiscovered tech. When you land a standing 4 after db+4 & it trades with jabs, he will have +15 advantage. For example if I trade & immediately follow up with 2,4, it's guaranteed. You can easily test this out in practice mode.
ws+1,2: Some other tech I've discovered is that on wakeup, going into ZEN after ws+1,2 as a spike ender, he can use a number of followups. ZEN 1 catches back roll & goes into a reset. ZEN 4 will hit grounded & side rolling opponents. ZEN 3 catches the opponent standing. If they block it, he gets massive frame advantage. Also, another neat thing about it is that you can cancel ZEN into cd+1 & catch ducking opponents on wakeup. This also crushes both wakeup kicks. ZEN cancel into cd+2 will crush mid wakeup kicks & it gives a similar KND to CH EWHF. ZEN cancel into Hellsweep is good for mixups.
CDS 4: Scary at the wall because of ws+1,2B! And it's a great mixup with CDS 1,2.
He has more but those were just moves & setups I don't see other people utilizing. I know I missed something. With that being said, I believe in the right hands, Jin can be more than a solid character. I think he's well rounded & extremely balanced. He has some untapped potential that people aren't looking into. The good thing about him is that not everybody uses him the same, I see a contrast in other players. I would consider myself a unique Jin player.
*****
You should note that those setups are very rare & they're not promising. For example, the ws+1,2~f ZEN mixups. You need to condition the opponent but thanks though. I watched some of Eloge's videos before. The goal for me is to master Jin as much as possible. He's definitely one of those characters who requires the player to have strong fundamentals to be effective. I'm still finding hidden tech with him & it's amazing. Maybe that's what I'll do with my channel if I get a better camera. Post all of my ideas with him & share it with fellow Jin players or people who wanna pick him up. I had videos but I took them down. Maybe I'll do my own tutorial in the future. This could be beneficial for me since I know so much about him.
Lars in Tekken 7 PepeHands
I disagree about steve, hes not the best but he doesnt suck. Its the way you use him that makes him effective.
so you said: "clone teams are very strong", "it's important that the combo are easy to execute even in a big crowd", "damage output it's a thing to take in consideration", "poking tools are a thing wich make the difference from a good character or a bad character", "characters like kazuya bruce and lars are too easy to understand and the best would be a thing wich mindfucks your opponent"...
considering this...why the hell bears are in the extreme bottom of the list?
they do a helluva damage, the hunting stance is one of the most mindfucking things in the game, they are completely personal to use because you can play more on the ground or more standing, the have a lot of things for poking and those pokes do really a lot of damage.
the only thing that they lack the most is a quick strong punish but is this only thing enough to put them on the bottom?
So I've started playing Tekken when Revolution came out bout 2 years ago. For some reason i've started playing with the hardest character in the game. so now fast forward 2 years and i main the mishimas Kazuya and Heihachi). but now i was wondering what character that are easier to play with on my level because i am having a hard time.
Also I really hate scrubby, cheap and gimmicky character. Anyone has any ideas who should I try?
Lars, Miguel, Bruce, Leo, Bob, Jack, Jinpachi?
These characters are pretty good and don't require much execution.
+BigManWithCa$h of all the character you mentioned only Leo is not a gimmick character.
+HeavyMetalfan21 lol gimmicks are legit strategies though as long as they work.
also why would you classify thoses characters as gimmicks
BigManWithCa$h sorry gimmicks is for capos and yoshi. Bruce and Bob are actually harder to play with that the characters you mentioned. And yes Jinpachi and Jack are gimmicky AF
+HeavyMetalfan21 lars, miguel, bruce, leo, bob and jack dont really rely on gimmicks (if played right)
DAMMIT! You didn't talk about my maaaaains! Lol
Who?
At the time, Lili and Jun.
Oh they suck I main bob/slim bob
Psn ShinigamiToshin1
Abubakr Omar They don't suck at all... Lol Jun has great mixups, her parry is almost as cheap as Asuka's and she can reverse grabs.
Lili is also a solid character.
don't take a shower nor brush your teeth and smoke a pack of cig before your match
26:31 The Thumbnail Thank me later
I know tier list are ones opinion but kazuya and lars should trade places :P
Tekken 7 is right around the corner
Joey jr was op in T6
17:22
Throwback to when Lars and eddy were good :((((
Of course capos are high tier
Damn short hair aris
haha aris confirmed it...Chreddy is for no brainers XD
hey alright
I bet you can call Hwoarang Dave.
In my recommended again lol
tHE ONLY THING MARDUK NEEDS IN THIS GAME IS A 14 WS LAUNCHER!!!
How my boy lars go from being one of the best characters in the game to arguably the worst lol
CLONE LARS DLC right before tekken7 plzzzz
I don't think TTT2 is a factually balanced game.It "seems" balanced because of the sheer difficulty it takes to actually render characters obsolete and because how actually playing is completely different from on paper stuff.
You need to be at a very high level for tier lists to actually matter (most people aren't)But when you do reach that level the differences become humongous.
The game has so many artificial difficulty barriers.
very true thats why koreans put mishimas SS tier while the rest is below.
he plays dr.B ........ and Lars hahahaha funny comment on the chat
Leo = Larspachi :3
18:30 still waiting for him to stop talking about shit SF players sharing the same screen that btw has nothing to do with tekken 😡
I don't understand why Angel is in shitebag tier. I understand she the worse Mishima out of the 4. But she is still a Mishima. She still has Electric's and Hell Sweeps. ans she still has Mishima level of damage.
extremely unsafe and conditional, slow, low combo mixups, etc
Yes. These moves you mention, the staple Mishima moves, electric, 1,1,2, hellsweep, still hold very high levels of usefulness. It's what makes her not total shit tier. And just another one of the reasons for why Aris is wrong in this. Weak tier, like B- tiers, aren't total shit.
FutileExistence
Being a diehard Angel player myself, I can name her weakenesses better than you or Aris himself can. Just a few, for the time being: lack of decent backdash, lack of 14 frame or faster mids, lack of worthy high crushes, arm reach on the shorter side, lack of 15f WS launcher.
Angel misconceptions: lack of damage, low damage lows.
Her flaws are just too bad and her good points are shared with the male mishimas. Therefore why not pick DJ, Kaz, or Hei, they do exactly what Angel can do good but better.
BigManWithCa$h
wayyyy better
Coming from T7 tier list
Dragunov need more lows
+felipe alcantara Agreed but d+2 is already so good its cheap
+J walking It's -13 lol easy to read
Tekken Team You always comment on my comments kid and you know nothing. Go back to playing cod your opinion is irrelevant.
+J walking I never comment on your comments....I don't even know who you are...lol
Catalina lol