Brought back loads of good memories, I used one of these professionally for quite a number of years, I had a f6.8 90mm with a centre filter, I used to take the viewfinder off and carry it in my pocket. I thought this camera was better than the Fuji, it could focus closer and because of that with another lens plate you could attach longer lenses! I broke the screen and had to make my own. They also made a 6x24 version, the Lens was trickier to buy at the time, I wished I’d kept it, but digital forced me to sell off all the film cameras apart from large format. Thanks for the film, nice images.
michael baister. So you sold that panorama film camera and now you find you can't remember the entire menu of the digital camera which won't last very long anyway. Film is making a huge comeback. Large format film cameras are for artists, that's the way it has always been.
@@ducatitastic sorry I’ve just seen your comment and I’m probably way too late, but the camera only shoots 4 frames so I usually took one roll per composition.
@@Foxglove963 hi, you’re probably right! But I’m still shooting 4x5 and 8x10 film, then scanning it, I still have a 10x10 enlarger but darkroom is only fit for developing film at the moment. I’ve posted loads of pano and large format images on Instagram recently.
@@michaelbaister1 I also can my film and put it on file. As it happens I also have a 10 X 10" diffusor, the 4 X 5" enlarger is a different type. I find it hard to get into Instagram, it is a wrangle with codes or something. Can't be bothered with all that really.
Great video. You completely talked me out of it. One-handed in the rain and all the "oops" stuff, uhhh...I already have that covered just trying to handle my daily life.
Yeah, the umbrella wouldn't stay open - the tab wasn't working so I had to hold it up with one hand. It wasn't my best 'shooting in the rain' experience, that's for sure. That camera requires both hands and all of your attention.
I have used film cameras since 1985 to 2006 professionally. I always was interested in a 6x17 cm and I regret I never bought one some decades ago. If I would have, be sure I still would have it and use it sometimes. Congratulations for your camera.
An old fashioned 6 x 17 panorama camera. No Linhof, no Fuji nor Brooks Plaubel Veriwide. It was Frits Rotgans in the Netherlands in the late Fifties who was building his own panorama cameras and panorama backs. By special order Agfa and Kodak were willing to cut sheetfilm in any format. Linhof copied the Rotgans's idea of the panorama camera. At the Fotokina in Cologne in Germany Linhof showed the Linhof panorama camera, but the huge 2 x 5 m photos had been made by Rotgans with one of his DIY homemade panorama cameras. Today the Rotgans cameras are rusting and rotting, with cocked shutters, in the depot of the Foto Museum in Rotterdam. SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MUNDI.
It feels like there are so many panoramic camera makers out there who have been lost to the ages. I have never heard of Frits Rotgans. Thanks for letting me know about him, and the history of how Linhof got started with his images!
Not necessarily. There is a focus helicoid on the lens and a distance scale. As long as you're not too critical about your focus point it's not bad - no different than any other older camera that has the 'guess the distance' focussing scale. I bet with a tape measure you could get pretty good at nailing critical close focus but this camera is really set up for distance.
Great video. Well-shot, topical, interesting, informative, and also some really wonderful photographs. Nice work man. Do you do photography or some other related field for a living?
Do you have any suggestions on where to get a manual? I got my hands on one of these, but the Tomiyama company has no manuals left, there is zero information online and it is bit too expensive for shooting this just for fun :D
Low price copy at 2000usd? Lol.. Man, i wish there was a some what cheap way to get into this type of camera. 5-800usd would be perfect! Great video btw, and awsome shots!
This is an old Imacon Flextight II scanner. Ancient, SCSI-based, but really nice. We are planning on doing a video on scanning early in the new year, I'll touch on a few points about best practices, no matter what the scanner you are using. As for modern scanners, I'm afraid aside from the Epson and the Plustek models there aren't really that many out there. They do work well (35mm can be a bit of a challenge) but you need to have a good setup to maximize the image quality. Other than that, I don't know much about them. Sorry I can't be more help than that.
Just curious... Having no experience at all with cameras of this nature... Could you walk around and shoot hand held with this?... Apologies ahead of time if my question sounds naive...
Actually, a great question. Mark Tucker (you can google him - one of the most talented commercial photographers in the last several years - now retired) used to shoot with a Fuji GX680 hand-held. Apparently it was like holding a half cinder block. But the images he got from it were epic. People have shot 4x5 hand held (look up David Burnett and his large-format camera with an Aero-Ektar lens.) so shooting this camera hand-held is not beyond the realm of possibility. But you would really have to explore how to make it work properly. It couldn't be about getting a technically perfect shot, as the nature of the camera just wouldn't allow that. It would have to be about shooting and getting a great wide-format narrative. I have to say now that you have asked that question, I wish I went out and shot it hand-held with a bunch of rolls of black-and-white. I wonder what I would have managed to get.
I think the big sensor was the holdback. Digital sensors are sourced from just a couple of companies and I doubt that they could see a payback for the R&D which would be required. It's a shame, really. As shooting a panoramic isn't quite the same when you stitch a bunch of images together.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird These are the links: channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/NicFill/Photokina-2008-Seitz-6x17-Digital-160-Million-Pixel-Camera shop.roundshot.com/en.html/1 SEITZ 6x17 Digital, 160 million Pixel camera. Exists since 2008. A bit too expensive for me.
Hi Eric, It's an Imacon Precision II scanner. It's an excellent scanner, but it is rather old - circa 1997, I believe. In order to properly run it, I need a dedicated G4 Powerbook running OS X 10.4 to run the software. I also have an adapter to change the interface from SCSI to Firewire. It is slow and ponderous, but the scans are excellent!
That's a whole other world of crazy! I take off my hat to anyone who has the patience for wet plate or hand-poured. The best I can do is some expired 4x5 film.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird Im still an absolute beginner on regards of wet plate. I made my first plate some weeks ago so Im sure it should become easier as I get more skilled. I do it for hobby so that's probably the source of my patience, regardless it is extremely satisfying to see such a high resolution image on glass made practically from scratch. So far i can say wet plate its easier than making an emulsion from scratch, much less steps under safe light and time to prepare and a lot more efficient regarding chemicals because you use less silver in each plate and all the "waste" and excess when pouring can be recycled. I can encourage you to give it a try, it is a lot of work indeed specially if you are just starting but the satisfaction is worth it. Thanks for your reply!
Checking current ebay, there are four versions of this camera up for sale. On average, they look to be in good condition. Most seem to get little use - no surprise given the constraints on subject matter. What surprises me is that the lens is board mounted and easy to interchange. It looks like Schneider, Rodenstock and Nikon large format lenses were used. Perhaps the new buyer just got the camera and shopped a lens separately??? I see that the focus adjuster is indexed for subject distance, which suggests that the camera can be zone focused without the ground glass, but then how did they allow for the variations in lenses used? At $1,600 - 2,000, you have to be very rich or motivated to try to answer such questions by experiment.
Hi Randall, Not a high-use camera by any means. There weren't too many brassed-up versions used in combat. Your comments about the lenses are absolutely correct - and I'm afraid I don't know which lens was the preferred one, and which lens was matched to the focus adjuster. I do think the lens was purchased separately from the camera. I can only assume that the idea was you would set up your lens and then use the ground glass to figure out just how close to reality the markings on the adjustment were. And make some notes, so that you knew, for instance, that when it said '15 feet' on the adjuster it was really more like 12 feet, or something like that. But trying to get any sort of hyperfocal benefit out of this camera would definitely require some practice and probably several rolls of film.
Afraid not - well, not that I'm aware of, anyway. The issue is that there aren't many lenses that will cover 17cm wide - and the ones that do are pretty expensive. Couple that with a pretty obscure and not overly popular format and the cameras cost quite a bit.
It's an old Imacon Precision II from about 1995. I have it running with an old G4 tower and a SCSI card. It works well, but it is slow and if anything breaks on it, I will need a new scanner.
It's an old Imacon Precision II scanner from about 1995. I run it on an old G4 computer (the laptop in the video there died) through a SCSI card. Still works like a champ!
For those interested in the rare 6 x 24 version...www.ebay.ca/itm/Super-Rare-Near-Mint-Tomiyama-ART-PANORAMA-240-W-Fujinon-SW-105mm-f-8-Case-/272617675791?hash=item3f79479c0f:g:OTEAAOSwXYtYum2u
Hi Glen, they're rather hard to come by, I'm afraid. They come up on Ebay occasionally, and usually cost about $2000US. I don't think they have produced them for a decade or more.
Hi Louis, I'm afraid they're fairly rare. I have seen them occasionally come up on Ebay and the price ranges, depending on the lenses that are available. Generally you can find one for about $2000USD, I believe.
Hm. Not sure how to respond to this one. Film is, for all intents and purposes, dead for commercial work. But I'm not sure what you mean. Why wouldn't one want to shoot film for fun?
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird When you don't have to use it everyday because there is no other option, then you might try it for fun, but it is a waste of time and money after you realize there is no benefit using it :)
@@m9000k How do I use my 4x5 then? Or this boat anchor? Or a Pentax 67, Mamiya 6... Digital isn't the same. I have plenty of digital cameras, too. And they are great for a lot of things, but not for shooting with old cameras. A 110F2 on a Hasselblad 203fe has mojo that you can't get anywhere else. That said, I haven't succumbed to the siren song of buying a 6x17 camera. Yet.
Archival quality makes film relevant. Several years ago I cleaned out my grandparents attic. I came across a box of old photos and negatives that dated back to the early 1900’s and included construction photos of the the Welland Canal. I scanned the negatives (using a Hell scanner), made enlargements and donated them to a couple of local museums. These negatives were nearly a hundred years old at the time. I have digital files that can no longer be read because the technology to read them is obsolete. SyQuest drives are hard to find these days.
@@Sherwoody Excellent points! Film certainly has a place, and it's a whole lot more archival than digital media, that's for sure. Ask anyone who stored data on CD-roms or DVDs from 15 years ago.
Depends on how you want to look at it. As a 6x17 camera, possibly. But then Fuji built one of those, too. Price-wise it isn't even on the same planet. A Tomiyama with a 90mm lens on eBay is about $2500 Canadian. A Linhof Technorama 617 is closing in on $10K. The Fujis are about the same price as the Tomiyama. No idea why the Linhof is so expensive, except that it's a Linhof...
It's an old Imacon Flextight Precision III scanner from about 1995. Works like a charm and gives excellent scans. I have it connected to an old G4 workstation and it runs pretty well. Rather slow but aside from that, the scans are fabulous
The forest images came out amazing. Good job
Brought back loads of good memories, I used one of these professionally for quite a number of years, I had a f6.8 90mm with a centre filter, I used to take the viewfinder off and carry it in my pocket. I thought this camera was better than the Fuji, it could focus closer and because of that with another lens plate you could attach longer lenses! I broke the screen and had to make my own. They also made a 6x24 version, the Lens was trickier to buy at the time, I wished I’d kept it, but digital forced me to sell off all the film cameras apart from large format. Thanks for the film, nice images.
How do you focus on the next shot if you can only use the ground glass before you load the film?
michael baister. So you sold that panorama film camera and now you find you can't remember the entire menu of the digital camera which won't last very long anyway. Film is making a huge comeback. Large format film cameras are for artists, that's the way it has always been.
@@ducatitastic sorry I’ve just seen your comment and I’m probably way too late, but the camera only shoots 4 frames so I usually took one roll per composition.
@@Foxglove963 hi, you’re probably right! But I’m still shooting 4x5 and 8x10 film, then scanning it, I still have a 10x10 enlarger but darkroom is only fit for developing film at the moment. I’ve posted loads of pano and large format images on Instagram recently.
@@michaelbaister1 I also can my film and put it on file. As it happens I also have a 10 X 10" diffusor, the 4 X 5" enlarger is a different type. I find it hard to get into Instagram, it is a wrangle with codes or something. Can't be bothered with all that really.
Great video.
You completely talked me out of it.
One-handed in the rain and all the "oops" stuff, uhhh...I already have that covered just trying to handle my daily life.
Yeah, the umbrella wouldn't stay open - the tab wasn't working so I had to hold it up with one hand. It wasn't my best 'shooting in the rain' experience, that's for sure. That camera requires both hands and all of your attention.
I have used film cameras since 1985 to 2006 professionally. I always was interested in a 6x17 cm and I regret I never bought one some decades ago. If I would have, be sure I still would have it and use it sometimes. Congratulations for your camera.
Thanks. It's a beast but the images are really unique.
You cannot imagine how much I would like to try it and review in my channel. Gosh how beautiful it is!!!!
4 great looking frames!
Thanks
I love the little shield logo that looks like a direct rip off of the Linhof logo.
An old fashioned 6 x 17 panorama camera.
No Linhof, no Fuji nor Brooks Plaubel Veriwide.
It was Frits Rotgans in the Netherlands in the late Fifties
who was building his own panorama cameras and panorama backs.
By special order Agfa and Kodak were willing to cut sheetfilm in any format.
Linhof copied the Rotgans's idea of the panorama camera.
At the Fotokina in Cologne in Germany Linhof showed the Linhof panorama
camera, but the huge 2 x 5 m photos had been made by Rotgans with one
of his DIY homemade panorama cameras.
Today the Rotgans cameras are rusting and rotting, with cocked shutters,
in the depot of the Foto Museum in Rotterdam.
SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MUNDI.
It feels like there are so many panoramic camera makers out there who have been lost to the ages. I have never heard of Frits Rotgans. Thanks for letting me know about him, and the history of how Linhof got started with his images!
Awesome pictures, I think it would be good to make a video of the workflow of editing and the way you scan
Use the Epson Perfection V800 Photo scanner, scans all films includin 8 X 10", comes with a manual and easy programme.
love this camera, thanks for the video.
I'm considering one of these and yeah the focus and load process certainly seems a bit fiddly but I'm always up for a challenge.
But you can use bracketing and focus stacking via DOF ))
Great video
so stunning !
cheers!
When focused once - I can only take 4 identical pictures, and that's it? Cool!
Not necessarily. There is a focus helicoid on the lens and a distance scale. As long as you're not too critical about your focus point it's not bad - no different than any other older camera that has the 'guess the distance' focussing scale. I bet with a tape measure you could get pretty good at nailing critical close focus but this camera is really set up for distance.
NB: better forgetting 612 version.wrong design disables to improve perfect
filmflatness. NB: my repairman altered the 617 for someone with shift.
I would be the dummy who would drop the ground glass....I worked with a cinematographer in the 90s who had and loved his Fuji version,
Christ, those last three images are astounding.
Great review , is it possible to do long exposures with that camera? Those photos are so beautiful:)
Thanks! The shutter in the lens goes to 1 second, and has B and T settings, so you can make as long an exposure as you want.
Great video. Well-shot, topical, interesting, informative, and also some really wonderful photographs. Nice work man. Do you do photography or some other related field for a living?
Thanks for your support! I do actually shoot full-time for a living but try as I might no commercial clients want to shoot 6x17 film on a project.
That's a bummer. Maybe someday.
Do you have any suggestions on where to get a manual? I got my hands on one of these, but the Tomiyama company has no manuals left, there is zero information online and it is bit too expensive for shooting this just for fun :D
great video , thanks for sharing
Low price copy at 2000usd? Lol.. Man, i wish there was a some what cheap way to get into this type of camera. 5-800usd would be perfect! Great video btw, and awsome shots!
It's not the same type of camera but it still makes 6x17 negatives: RealitySoSubtle 6×17 for only around 200 dollar
The scanner was 25,000usd. So yea, 2000 is a drop in the bucket.
What is the scanner you are using? Any tips for modern but affordable scanners? Could you offer my instructional vids re scanning?
This is an old Imacon Flextight II scanner. Ancient, SCSI-based, but really nice. We are planning on doing a video on scanning early in the new year, I'll touch on a few points about best practices, no matter what the scanner you are using. As for modern scanners, I'm afraid aside from the Epson and the Plustek models there aren't really that many out there. They do work well (35mm can be a bit of a challenge) but you need to have a good setup to maximize the image quality. Other than that, I don't know much about them. Sorry I can't be more help than that.
Just curious... Having no experience at all with cameras of this nature... Could you walk around and shoot hand held with this?... Apologies ahead of time if my question sounds naive...
Actually, a great question. Mark Tucker (you can google him - one of the most talented commercial photographers in the last several years - now retired) used to shoot with a Fuji GX680 hand-held. Apparently it was like holding a half cinder block. But the images he got from it were epic. People have shot 4x5 hand held (look up David Burnett and his large-format camera with an Aero-Ektar lens.) so shooting this camera hand-held is not beyond the realm of possibility. But you would really have to explore how to make it work properly. It couldn't be about getting a technically perfect shot, as the nature of the camera just wouldn't allow that. It would have to be about shooting and getting a great wide-format narrative. I have to say now that you have asked that question, I wish I went out and shot it hand-held with a bunch of rolls of black-and-white. I wonder what I would have managed to get.
love this cam👍👍👍
Have you any idea why the big Fujifilm company (or Linhof, Tomiyama) did not make a new model of camera 6x17 cm, but now digital with a big sensor?
I think the big sensor was the holdback. Digital sensors are sourced from just a couple of companies and I doubt that they could see a payback for the R&D which would be required. It's a shame, really. As shooting a panoramic isn't quite the same when you stitch a bunch of images together.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird Just found a digital 6x17 cm camera. But 160 millions of pixels and Euros 30.000.
@@danielbruhin6171 Really? Amazing! I wonder how well it works...
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird These are the links:
channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/NicFill/Photokina-2008-Seitz-6x17-Digital-160-Million-Pixel-Camera
shop.roundshot.com/en.html/1
SEITZ 6x17 Digital, 160 million Pixel camera. Exists since 2008. A bit too expensive for me.
@@danielbruhin6171 Amazing! Thanks for sending that along. The Seitz is a bit too expensive for me, too.
Greetings,
Wlhat is the name of the film scanner that you used in this video?
It's an Imacon scanner - a Precision II from about 1995. Old school but it works really rather well.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird Thanks for the reply. Be safe
Can you tell me what that scanner is called? Thank you!
Hi Eric, It's an Imacon Precision II scanner. It's an excellent scanner, but it is rather old - circa 1997, I believe. In order to properly run it, I need a dedicated G4 Powerbook running OS X 10.4 to run the software. I also have an adapter to change the interface from SCSI to Firewire. It is slow and ponderous, but the scans are excellent!
I prefer digital or if going to analog I go all the way to hand poured gelatin glass negatives or wet collodion.
That's a whole other world of crazy! I take off my hat to anyone who has the patience for wet plate or hand-poured. The best I can do is some expired 4x5 film.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird Im still an absolute beginner on regards of wet plate. I made my first plate some weeks ago so Im sure it should become easier as I get more skilled. I do it for hobby so that's probably the source of my patience, regardless it is extremely satisfying to see such a high resolution image on glass made practically from scratch. So far i can say wet plate its easier than making an emulsion from scratch, much less steps under safe light and time to prepare and a lot more efficient regarding chemicals because you use less silver in each plate and all the "waste" and excess when pouring can be recycled. I can encourage you to give it a try, it is a lot of work indeed specially if you are just starting but the satisfaction is worth it. Thanks for your reply!
@@teresashinkansen9402 Perhaps I will take a look at it. If nothing else, it would make for a good few videos. ;-)
Checking current ebay, there are four versions of this camera up for sale. On average, they look to be in good condition. Most seem to get little use - no surprise given the constraints on subject matter. What surprises me is that the lens is board mounted and easy to interchange. It looks like Schneider, Rodenstock and Nikon large format lenses were used. Perhaps the new buyer just got the camera and shopped a lens separately??? I see that the focus adjuster is indexed for subject distance, which suggests that the camera can be zone focused without the ground glass, but then how did they allow for the variations in lenses used? At $1,600 - 2,000, you have to be very rich or motivated to try to answer such questions by experiment.
Hi Randall, Not a high-use camera by any means. There weren't too many brassed-up versions used in combat. Your comments about the lenses are absolutely correct - and I'm afraid I don't know which lens was the preferred one, and which lens was matched to the focus adjuster. I do think the lens was purchased separately from the camera. I can only assume that the idea was you would set up your lens and then use the ground glass to figure out just how close to reality the markings on the adjustment were. And make some notes, so that you knew, for instance, that when it said '15 feet' on the adjuster it was really more like 12 feet, or something like that. But trying to get any sort of hyperfocal benefit out of this camera would definitely require some practice and probably several rolls of film.
Any known alternatives to this, that are under 1k?
Afraid not - well, not that I'm aware of, anyway. The issue is that there aren't many lenses that will cover 17cm wide - and the ones that do are pretty expensive. Couple that with a pretty obscure and not overly popular format and the cameras cost quite a bit.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird Got it, I appreciate the help. Some day I'll have the balls to just pay the 2k+ haha.
A negative film can better tolerate overexposure than underexposure, slidefilm (dias) can better tolerate minor underexposure but not overexposere.
Negative film has a lot more latitude, for sure. Still, I tend to ask far too much from all of my film!
Which scanner do you use?
It's an old Imacon Precision II from about 1995. I have it running with an old G4 tower and a SCSI card. It works well, but it is slow and if anything breaks on it, I will need a new scanner.
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird
Thank you for your response and best regards from Munich.
Um how to rewind the film ??
No rewinding necessary. It's 120-size film so it is wound off one one spool and then on to another.
What scanner is that?
It's an old Imacon Precision II scanner from about 1995. I run it on an old G4 computer (the laptop in the video there died) through a SCSI card. Still works like a champ!
For those interested in the rare 6 x 24 version...www.ebay.ca/itm/Super-Rare-Near-Mint-Tomiyama-ART-PANORAMA-240-W-Fujinon-SW-105mm-f-8-Case-/272617675791?hash=item3f79479c0f:g:OTEAAOSwXYtYum2u
Where can I get one?
Hi Glen, they're rather hard to come by, I'm afraid. They come up on Ebay occasionally, and usually cost about $2000US. I don't think they have produced them for a decade or more.
Thanks, I will just have to keep my eyes open.
What the chances of finding one? What the price?
Hi Louis, I'm afraid they're fairly rare. I have seen them occasionally come up on Ebay and the price ranges, depending on the lenses that are available. Generally you can find one for about $2000USD, I believe.
Alastair Bird thank you
not sure
Not sure? About what? Can you elaborate?
Well video and info about this product, thanks a lot but who wants to use this camera , and spend a huge time , sorry but for me it is terrible ...
I'm glad film is dead and we don't need to waste time and money using film anymore
Hm. Not sure how to respond to this one. Film is, for all intents and purposes, dead for commercial work. But I'm not sure what you mean. Why wouldn't one want to shoot film for fun?
@@UnderexposedwithAlastairBird When you don't have to use it everyday because there is no other option, then you might try it for fun, but it is a waste of time and money after you realize there is no benefit using it :)
@@m9000k How do I use my 4x5 then? Or this boat anchor? Or a Pentax 67, Mamiya 6... Digital isn't the same. I have plenty of digital cameras, too. And they are great for a lot of things, but not for shooting with old cameras. A 110F2 on a Hasselblad 203fe has mojo that you can't get anywhere else. That said, I haven't succumbed to the siren song of buying a 6x17 camera. Yet.
Archival quality makes film relevant. Several years ago I cleaned out my grandparents attic. I came across a box of old photos and negatives that dated back to the early 1900’s and included construction photos of the the Welland Canal. I scanned the negatives (using a Hell scanner), made enlargements and donated them to a couple of local museums.
These negatives were nearly a hundred years old at the time. I have digital files that can no longer be read because the technology to read them is obsolete. SyQuest drives are hard to find these days.
@@Sherwoody Excellent points! Film certainly has a place, and it's a whole lot more archival than digital media, that's for sure. Ask anyone who stored data on CD-roms or DVDs from 15 years ago.
Total rip of the linhof.
Depends on how you want to look at it. As a 6x17 camera, possibly. But then Fuji built one of those, too. Price-wise it isn't even on the same planet. A Tomiyama with a 90mm lens on eBay is about $2500 Canadian. A Linhof Technorama 617 is closing in on $10K. The Fujis are about the same price as the Tomiyama. No idea why the Linhof is so expensive, except that it's a Linhof...
What type of a scanner do you use?
It's an old Imacon Flextight Precision III scanner from about 1995. Works like a charm and gives excellent scans. I have it connected to an old G4 workstation and it runs pretty well. Rather slow but aside from that, the scans are fabulous