LS Explains How Lane Theme Counters Work in ProPlay
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
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i think if you ever have the time + energy, a fully fleshed out video on all this would be a great watch
hes done this thing like 10 years ago and the fundamental concepts remain the same. you can watch it right now
@@TheNBSPerry it's not always obvious where specific champions fit in this spectrum. For example he defines akali as midrange when most people would assume akali is assassin. I think it would help a lot of people if he made an in depth video where he briefly talks about every champion, similarly to how he did his arena tier list.
@@numblittle8461I mean youre right but akali is pretty obviously mid-range. She's an assassin whose rotation, unless fed or soloing a squishy target like an adc, will not insta kill. She has in return insane mobility for gap close and escape, stall potential and spacing potential. She plays more like a skirmisher than for instance zed, who goes in, does combo, runs out, repeat. Akali because of her W and its energy regen can consistently stay in the fray for a fair while
@@numblittle8461 he used to have a fat spreadsheet of every champs with their themes/roles but probly not worth doing it anymore
@@deejaydee1578 It's not obviously not obvious if there are people who can see her and not make that distinction.
LS aka Learning Shapes is a popular twitch streamer known for his gradually increasing understanding of shapes
I think it would be a cool idea for LS to place the spectrum of champions in the hexagon. Maybe but it on the website? That would be helpful for people trying to learn the nuance of draft. Maybe algorithm drafts per patch (oof) to show recommendationa based on current picks, bans, and favored champions. Give brief intoductions to your role in fights, builds. I think it would be the one all tool.
Please do content of this kind, it's so fun to listen to!
I really cant understand the lack of Fizz, especially. I mean, he can build any item with AP on it, has reliable spikes at 2/3/6/9/11/16, decent waveclear, can play super non-comittal, and is near-impossible to gank.
He is underrated asf
we need more ls/ivern skin splash art edits
LS can you keep it down you're waking up my neighbors
I've sometimes tried to break strategy games down to basic aspects. Time, space, resource (value), or something. These classes or themes differ in how they distribute value over time and space. Hard to grasp though, don't know if it's a complete system
LS, would you mind deconstructing what pro-builds and runes to take in Baldur's Gate 3? Thanks
I know you are not serious but some people looking for most optimized builds in single player RPGs in order to steamroll the game makes me wonder why they are even playing it.
@@LevtNowBecause to some people, the process of optimising their builds itself is fun
Ekko as a midlaner falls into the same category as Kassadin in regards to being extremely useless, even former onetricks don't really play him anymore and he is very hard to play on a professional level if you are not very proficient on him, which we could also see in s10 when he was played into Azir and Syndra for example. Nemesis said it on his last stream when he played against an Ekko mid otp as well, Ekko just isn't viable in midlane in higher levels of play.
Same as akali honestly, AP assassins are all struggling and i blame the items rework here.
As a guy who likes playing his mages, especially poke mages lately, I must say I am quite glad, that they aren’t, because that allows artillery to rise.
Though proplay only plays kaisa and jayce sadge. :(
Xerath, vel koz and ziggs are all in a pretty good spot atm.
This video isnt about the viability of individual champions, this is on the same level as Rock Paper Scissors, though he mentions that certain champions break the cycle due to their numbers (*point on that in a minute). RPS doesnt get patched giving Scissors a 10% extra chance of beating Rock depending on the colour of the player's shoes which is how the 2 games differ, but Ekko and Kassadin are still Rock to the Artillery Mage's Scissors. It just is the current case that theyre thin ice vs a razor sharp sword.
(*here) The game is not and cannot be perfectly balanced, and the META is determined by particular champions edging out other champions, and then those particular champions having a team comp built around them which is how you get poke comps being played one patch which theme counter other options, then hard engage comps next patch etc.
@@lowceyn2875Completely agree
@@lowceyn2875elise has been very strong in some metas since item rework
I am not sure what he means, when he says midrange counters enchanters utility, I get that enchanters in general are supposed to be part of a potect comp, making them amazing for hyperscaling, meaning midrange could close out the games fast enough, but I find it tough to really think of how the champs in that category arent just assassins/evasion champ in general too.
Irelia for example is kind of a diver, (who could also be in protect, because of the DPS, kinda like jax)
Champs like akali seems to kinda struggle with protect though, because the tools of enchanters, stop them, from being able to burst people.
I think controll is way more of a counter to protect, because controll in general, just has a slighttly higher range and tons of AOE cc, like trundle pillars, orianna ult, viktor w, brand AOE, Anivia wall, Rumble ult, etc. Things that throw chaos into a clump of champions, by either dealing a ton, hard ccing or both, breaking protect comps apart.
Which then get beaten up by champ, that cant be touched by controll, because controll is usually lower range than artilery.
Yes controll also kinda gets countered by evasion, because it is able to dodge or manouver around zones, but there I could still see things like malz and naut counting as controll, making this more of a grey area, for what counters what.
You could also argue that poke counters protect as well right now, because if you look at the power level of every poke mage atm, they all have controll like tools in terms of power.
Ziggs being the best example, having basiscally a w for breaking protect apart like gragas would and an E that deals so much damage that you can even send your tank through it safely.
I mean he mentions that everything counters everyone in some kinda way, which is absolutely true, protect for example struggles hugely, with something like a Jarvan, who is more a kinda of evasion/dive champ, if combined with highrange AOE controll ults (orianna, rumble, ziggs, lux, etc.)
Ornn in the middle of the Hexagon
Wouldn't Eve be a big one too vs artillery?
According to hexagon -> yes.
Assassin /Evasion
Yeah if Kalista wasn’t so weak she would be too.
assassins, especially on jg, stink in pro play.
@@spamaxsoowy3654 eve doesnt stink lol
And ivern beats everyone
The Zaza tree. 🌲🌻
Well, he has a fine line, works on short range through his auto damage daisy dealing damage, he is scaling daisy than controll mages, he brings a lot of controll through daisy, bushes and q as well as e him self, daisy brings basically frontline, while he is an enchanter, so we got a check on that as well, he can work with highrange by using daisy and q as a slow.
He probably fits 5 boxes. Maybe even 6 at the start when he was also able to build nashors liandry, giving him also assassin evasion, due to his Q being a defensive dash, while his bushes enable the heck out of his damage.
Not anymore after the nerfs
What does he mean by artillery? Closest I can think of are Tristana Kog Jinx. Jinx was the strongest adc for a long time and very popular as well.
Artillery mages are ziggs, xerath, velkoz. Basically extremely high range poke champs. Ap Kaisa, Zoe, Jayce also Fall in to that category
This the kind of content I love to see
Where would fighters fall here? Just between tanks assassins? Or would they be considered mid range?
I think the artillery mages are the ones not getting the love from pro play.. because assassins are getting gutted immediately whenever they are good.. just take a look at jungle talon and ekko.. they only became good for one split and then immediately became obnoxious again the next tournament.. Kassadin also became like that.. he was once the king of mid lane specially before Azir came but after that he only became good for one split and then gone again.. the artillery mages are the ones not getting enough love specially whenever someone like Showmaker sometimes picks Ziggs and wrecks everyone with it..
So which category do adcs in mid (Lucian, akshan, trist, etc) fall in to ? Midrange?
extreme answer to artillery mages is shaco i feel lol feels so bad to face him
Are we in draft?
rip bruisers existence
Im dying at how sloppy this hexagon is done D:
Absolutely into Tristana?
as a coach i have also been into tristana. she is a very good lategame hypercarry, not quite as much as kogmaw, jinx or sth, but she beats >80% of adcs lategame, while also having great safety tools and a very good engage and 3 way flex. u dont b1 kogmaw, jinx or aphelios.
u can put a lulu next to her and scale or a nautilus and force engages, while being able to b1 her due to her W and R.
usually if u b1 an adcs its sth like ezreal who is terrible lategame, u cant really put a nautilus next to him and u cant flex him anywhere else than adc. of course there are other champs and patches where u could play ez mid and stuff but this is just a general example.
Flexibility usually loses u value. u often have a high floor and low ceiling. tristana has this high floor, but her ceiling is not as low.
besides some champs that could do that for a small amount of patches, only enchanters could ever do that.
For a long time in my career, b1 seraphine/karma/trist where the 3 best options i had discovered, that didnt involve my players learning entirely new champs like mid ivern, zilean or taric jgl to give him a 3 way flex (support, adc (with senna) and jgl).
Control mages are not midrange?
With midrange and I don’t play card games atm, but I think it is meant in a card game sense, he means midgame strong.
Though I would put scaling in such a thing, simply because scaling usually becomes better or worse, depending on the type of comp you play against.
Even though protect is the overall probably best type of scaling comp, highrange controll and artillery scale better against it and beat it.
what the fuck is going on with the audio man
What about lane Pantheon? Doesn’t he beat artillery mages as well. Maybe as a B tier pick.
u can outscale most of them of course as pantheon, but as a midrange champion, u should never be in range for anything other than hold Q. the only exception to that being kaisa or maybe vel koz.
xerath and ziggs can farm and push ur wave while not even in vision range.
So at that point ur just trying to withstand their poke and outscale, which u could do with an enchanter as well but probably better in most cases. seraphine nowadays can start double faerie charm and have her first item after 1.8k gold (~minute 6) while xerath will be sitting there with t1 boots, lost chapter and a dorans (assuming most players wont actually be smart and start saphyre crystal). so often times u will have a full echoes of helia for first dragon which is just unbeatable.
pantheon is usually best in beating assassins, tanks or champs like yasuo/yone. out of the melee champs he only really struggles against poppy, gragas and gangplank, while the latter is more of an ad control range than a melee champion.
what are artillery champs? damn wtf
Long range champs that rely on their spamable poke abilities (Xerath, Velkoz, Jayce to an extent)
Kaisa with her w atm, ziggs also, not sure if I am forgetting any the other hasn’t mentioned.
Ah yeah there is also ap kog, but he is getting outclassed by xerath atm unless we are talking about tank melt. Where I am not sure if xerath isn’t still better, due to his incredibly high amounts of damage, when his ult is combined with hard cc.
Anyways, to get back to artillery champs, in case you are wondering how such a comp looks, it is a lot about either disengage tools, or highrange controll Tools, janna for example is a good poke comp support, because she has very good disengage.
Pokecomps like tanks with high range Tools, such as Maokai, cho, Ornn, gragas, trundle.
A normal poke comp could be something like, jayce, Maokai, xerath, Caitlyn, janna.
i wish league was this simple lol
Counters expleened
first