VERY VERY good work Brian. I once did the math to turn a small sphere by the numbers which required patience and created lots of anxiety because one small error and its over. What you did is much more difficult because the curve is not perfectly spherical plus it is someone else's turbo housing. Your clients are very fortunate to have you available.
Great job Brian! Was just working on designing a new cross slide with T slots, and thought about adding a quick disconnect to the nut, and then a spring load feature , to allow the slide to follow a pattern for profiling..... not sure if something like that was ever tried.
A work of art and I bet that is a tricky deal in profiling on the way out on a contour but I'm diesel powered so what do I know. Bet you're enjoying some of this warm-ish weather even if it is a little damp. Baily would give the turbo a wave off but he was making sure the couch suspension was holding up.
I watched your old video on machining a turbo, the quality is a little bit bad. I always thought they used a special radius tool to cut that. Would love to do this on my manual lathe. Would you please do a video on how to cut that contour, there is not a lot of information about this out there. Thanx for sharing the content
Thanks for the awesome video!!! (And the skill set to go with it... wow) Do you know how much difference the wheel and contour make, all things else being equal, or is everything NDA'd?
Nice work! On the little tiny ones I work with you can't look in and see the radius too easily, so I mark the housing with sharpie and see where the radius rubs. Keep on cutting where it rubs uuntil the depth mic says the compressor hub is the same depth into the housing as the stock wheel was, to get the right clearance.
i would have liked to see more of the technique you used to generate the curve. that's mighty impressive hand work. what type of clearances do you use and how are they determined. what improvements can be expected after this modification? nice work
As I mentioned in the video I have an old video ua-cam.com/video/ibe0p2AQYco/v-deo.html that I explain more about how I do the curves. Sadly because it is old the footage is not that great. Sometime when I do a bore that requires more obvious step cuts I will do an updated video showing it all again. The biggest improvement with this mod is the reduced likelyhood of wheel failure. Power increase is likely in the 50hp range on a 1000hp motor.
Brian Do you alter the map groove to reduce the surging ( stalling of the turbine ) in any way ? I have no experience of diesel turbos but I did work on centrifugal compressors on Carlyle chillers for air con 500hp jobs or 400ton units we had 4 at the bank and boy could they surge if the condensers got to hot ( > 105 f ) Great hand eye coordination skills shown in this video but where was the QC inspector😀 Stuart
Yeah i indicate the bore up inside as well as the outer ring back and face till I get it all running true to how it was originally machined before I ever start. I can't ever seem to get them perfect but usually within .005" or so. I think the castings distort with heat cycles.
Do those guys run the Dual BB water cooled turbo's? Is there a specific target for clearance between the profile of the compressor wheel to the housing that effect spool up, etc?
Not usually. The turbos usually only operate for 20sec or less bursts so the water cooling doesn't do a lot for you. The BB turbos have been problematic. They were considered the best thing ever for awhile but I don't think that panned out like they hoped. Better materials and modifications to the oiling seem to have been better long term solutions than the BB's. The clearance is mostly dictated by the size of the wheel, the bigger the wheel the more the clearance. Sometimes the application makes a difference too as the wheels can really grown with heat so the harder you push one the more clearance it has to have so it doesn't grown into the cover. That is always a bad day when that happens!
Near Frankfort ky. Any. Increase in wheel size will of course have more lag. How much you need to increase it depends on how much you are increasing the air flow and the fuel.
what kind of coating/paint did you put on the intake after you turned it? it looked black and was it for looks or to smooth the finish to aid in air velocity? thanks
I like to spray them with slip plate it makes it nice and slick as it is a graphite impregnated paint. I don't know if it helps but I like to think it does.
Brian, given that the impeller is both dimensionally accurate and *highly* polished, do you think there might be some performance benefit to be obtained by carefully "sizing" the compressor body and by also polishing the internal surfaces? I seem to recall from my days as an idiot petrolhead youth, when we tried to obtain increases in horsepower (from engines that were entirely unsuited to that sort of exploitation) that smooth, polished inlet ports were regarded as being beneficial. When gas volumes and pressures are so much higher, perhaps polished inlet passages would help here too?
Did you ever clean up the turbo charger after putting in all of that work? It looked like it had a lot of flake and oil, I've seen too many of those wicked billet wheels blow up from people who don't clean them after they bored out the turbo. housing
Have you found a way to make these nearly impossible to break? I am trying to find a turbo built as good as the new trash trucks turbo. They bark all day every day and are still running so they must be good.
I am not aware of anything impossible to break. The Hx60 is a pretty tough turbo but if you overspeed it it will go boom. The s400 Borg Warners are really tough turbos for the money.
Yes, that is how I get paid. Unless it is one off stuff like this for racing usually whoever does the wheels can do the covers much cheaper than I. if you are needing something custom done send me an email what it is and i can give you a quote.
The radius varies so it is a more complex operation than a radius attachment would produce, you would have to do a series of various radii to get the proper curve.
Hi Brian, Impressive coordination, I'll have to practice quite a bit more to get that result... ;) Those impellers are to death for a very short moment, poor things, are they allowed to increase fan speed and raise pressure all together...? Cheers, Pierre
No rules on max pressure or speed. You can twist them as hard as you dare. The worst thing is the backwards rule thinking oftentimes does not allow aftercoolers or intercoolers so the air is super hot like 600-700degF outlet temps. The heat is a major killer.
bcbloc02 I never realized they had that big of a gap in between the compressor housing and compressor. .040 is bit more than I was expecting. I guess they need it from the heat being cold to when they warm up im sure they grow a bit.
@@bcbloc02 how much would be too much clearance? and what kind of issues would come from having something with a bit more of a gap between the inducer and the compressor inlet?
Yes I can do it. Do you have a cover to get the contour from or will it have to be done based off the wheel only? Also you said turbine housing and compressor wheel but those 2 parts don’t go together?
@@bcbloc02 I misspoke, late nights I meant compressor housing. Right now it’s made to fit the stock 59.89mm compressor wheel, I want it to fit a new 62mm one
@@enjoyer4128 is your comp cover the style bolted on with the plates? I actually think I may have a 62mm one of those. I don’t know what your performance plans are for it but there are lots better performing options than an h2e I quit messing with those and hx50s 20 years ago because they were very prone to breaking shafts and exploding.
@@bcbloc02 the only reason I’m building it is because it’s what I got and I don’t feel like going out and buying a new one yet, it has the ring thingy in the back that holds it on
Depends on the size. Usually $200 that being said if it is for a 5.9l cummins I would not suggest it as the turbine wheel is a choke and a bigger comp wheel without a bigger exhaust doesn't perform well. I know as I have tested it.
@@unclebuck6291 what rpm do you run at and fueling? Bigger wheel will add lag but gain high rpm power. From 2500rpm and down stock(56mm like the intercooled trucks had) is best. Above 2500-3000 probably a gain.
Why dint you show what you did after 10:30 ? Clearly there is a huge difference on how the surface looks and it doesnt scrape the fins on the surface... The results after 10:30 looks great but before that count everything is poorly machined
All I did was hit it with some high temp paint and assembled it with the shaft to hold the wheel centered. Before when I was fitting it it was rubbing because there was nothing to guide it and I had it against the cover but in real life the thrust keeps it held away so the clearance is right.
bcbloc02 my turbo has 2.5 bar of boost max at 80.000rpm, yours will have 5.5 bar (80 psi?)wow, will reach 150.000 rpm?at that speed it will extend,grow....
just watched your vid. Wow I am impressed. To make that radias by hand is true talent.
VERY VERY good work Brian. I once did the math to turn a small sphere by the numbers which required patience and created lots of anxiety because one small error and its over. What you did is much more difficult because the curve is not perfectly spherical plus it is someone else's turbo housing. Your clients are very fortunate to have you available.
One of the big things about job shop work is you really only get one shot at the machining ops. You miss your cut and you are hosed big time!
"one small error and its over" - Exactly right. (FAR to much of my life has been like that 🤪!)
That is some serious manual lathe work profiling the housing into the donut shape. Great work Brian!
Brian that is a step above machining and into the art category. Beautiful work.
Thanks, I have never considered myself an artist.
Very nice job Brian. You certainly have that job down pat. regards from the UK
Thanks Brian for another most interesting job/video. Fantastic work man.
Thanks for the video nice shot of the housing and wheel Contour 👍 matched perfect ....
Great stuff Brian. I have wondered for a long time if anyone did angles or curves in that manner. Very impressive.
I guess now you know at least one person does them that way. :-)
You are one of the true machinist, machining radius by using 2axis lathe is never a easy job. 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
Wow! Superb turning skills.
cool skills, tricky indeed, well done Brian
Amazing skill to do this by hand!!
Your the man Brian that's some skill by hand.
Great job Brian! Was just working on designing a new cross slide with T slots, and thought about adding a quick disconnect to the nut, and then a spring load feature , to allow the slide to follow a pattern for profiling..... not sure if something like that was ever tried.
this sounds interesting.
Nice job, not easy to do manually. It's amazing how a slight change in the compressor wheel can affect performance.
Sometimes something as little as a change in blade number can be 50hp.
I was sure you must have been using a tracer - impressive work, Brian! Thanks for sharing it with us.
Good hand eye coordination. :-)
I was going to ask if you free handed the contour. That take's a good bit of skill I'd say, to master. Thanks for the videos.
like the video Brian,you truly have a talent free handing that,keep up the good video's
Nice smoothing technique 👍
On top of all the other magic, the fact that you can spin an odd shape like a turbo housing with precision is really impressive.
Lots of practice. :-)
@@bcbloc02 do you ever take outside work? If so what's the best way to contact you to talk about my small project.
Not that difficult... I believe the center if the hole is the same outher diameter on both sides too
That is a mighty skillful task to do that profiling "Freehand"!!
Lots of practice at chasing the readout on the DRO!
Looks like a winner; and if it is that makes you a winner, too! Greg
Nice work Brian.
Amazing Brian, I bet the pucker factor was high the first time you did one of those. Thanks
That's so incredible. Is it all sound, feel and experience that makes it so you can be a human CNC? Great stuff Brian.
Good hand eye coordination. :-)
Awesome Work Brian
Excellent work Brian!!!!! Holy Shit!! excellent work!!
Thanks for brining us along on that brian
Glad to have ya along!
Nice job on the contour turning Brian 👍🏼
Thanks!
A work of art and I bet that is a tricky deal in profiling on the way out on a contour but I'm diesel powered so what do I know. Bet you're enjoying some of this warm-ish weather even if it is a little damp. Baily would give the turbo a wave off but he was making sure the couch suspension was holding up.
It has rained everyday for like the last 2 weeks it seems. Nothing but a muddy mess here.
Very nice work.
simply amazing
Awesome! Thanks for sharing!
I watched your old video on machining a turbo, the quality is a little bit bad. I always thought they used a special radius tool to cut that. Would love to do this on my manual lathe. Would you please do a video on how to cut that contour, there is not a lot of information about this out there. Thanx for sharing the content
Hello Brian, Nice job but did I hear Bailey in the background saying, "one more thousandth"? Take care. Doug
you sir are very talented!!
Thanks!
Thanks for the awesome video!!! (And the skill set to go with it... wow) Do you know how much difference the wheel and contour make, all things else being equal, or is everything NDA'd?
That depends entirely on your setup but a gain of 50hp or more is fairly common.
Nice work!
On the little tiny ones I work with you can't look in and see the radius too easily, so I mark the housing with sharpie and see where the radius rubs. Keep on cutting where it rubs uuntil the depth mic says the compressor hub is the same depth into the housing as the stock wheel was, to get the right clearance.
Must be a lot of trial and error to that. Before I started tracing using the DRO I used to use modeling clay to check clearance.
Takes a couple hours to get it right, but I'm just working on my own junk so no rush.
Compounds on a TDI, so little tiny 38 and 46 mm inducers.
Sweet! From time to time I consider building a compound setup for my Mercedes.
Nice job Brian hope to see at John's open house this year. Also what is the black line inside the bore?
That is a slot cut called a map width enhancement groove.
Nice work Brian, definitely looks like you have done this before!
Many times!
i would have liked to see more of the technique you used to generate the curve. that's mighty impressive hand work. what type of clearances do you use and how are they determined. what improvements can be expected after this modification? nice work
As I mentioned in the video I have an old video ua-cam.com/video/ibe0p2AQYco/v-deo.html that I explain more about how I do the curves. Sadly because it is old the footage is not that great. Sometime when I do a bore that requires more obvious step cuts I will do an updated video showing it all again. The biggest improvement with this mod is the reduced likelyhood of wheel failure. Power increase is likely in the 50hp range on a 1000hp motor.
Great video, thanks.
Enjoyed...nice work
Dang dude, you seem very anxious and high strung. You need to relax.
Nice work!
Nice manual blend on that radius.
great job
Nice Work !
very nice ... thanks for the video ,
Your my favorite UA-cam machine shop, by the way how long did it take you to come up with the numbers to hit for the profiles?
That is awesome to hear! It takes about an hour to map the bore for the numbers.
CNC profiling on a manual lathe , Nice !
Yeah. Can't let the modern guys have all the fun! :-)
Neat!! That old black magic......
Brian
Do you alter the map groove to reduce the surging ( stalling of the turbine ) in any way ?
I have no experience of diesel turbos but I did work on centrifugal compressors on Carlyle chillers for air con 500hp jobs or 400ton units we had 4 at the bank and boy could they surge if the condensers got to hot ( > 105 f )
Great hand eye coordination skills shown in this video but where was the QC inspector😀
Stuart
Inspector asleep on the job again. Sometimes alter or even eliminate the map groove depending on rules and what the engine needs.
Thanks Brian!! Did you use the original inducer bore to indicate it in jaws of chuck when you set it up?
Yeah i indicate the bore up inside as well as the outer ring back and face till I get it all running true to how it was originally machined before I ever start. I can't ever seem to get them perfect but usually within .005" or so. I think the castings distort with heat cycles.
Very good Brian maybe one day you could make those turbo blades.
That would be cool! I am thinking that it is a 5 axis job at least, that would be a pretty major investment but hey you never know what might turn up!
Do those guys run the Dual BB water cooled turbo's? Is there a specific target for clearance between the profile of the compressor wheel to the housing that effect spool up, etc?
Not usually. The turbos usually only operate for 20sec or less bursts so the water cooling doesn't do a lot for you. The BB turbos have been problematic. They were considered the best thing ever for awhile but I don't think that panned out like they hoped. Better materials and modifications to the oiling seem to have been better long term solutions than the BB's. The clearance is mostly dictated by the size of the wheel, the bigger the wheel the more the clearance. Sometimes the application makes a difference too as the wheels can really grown with heat so the harder you push one the more clearance it has to have so it doesn't grown into the cover. That is always a bad day when that happens!
Nice work,quick question,did u resurface the backplate too,so that the wheel can sit properly?
Not sure what you mean?
Where are you located? Absolutely fascinating. What to increase my compressor wheel 🤔 how far can I go safely?
Near Frankfort ky. Any. Increase in wheel size will of course have more lag. How much you need to increase it depends on how much you are increasing the air flow and the fuel.
what kind of coating/paint did you put on the intake after you turned it? it looked black and was it for looks or to smooth the finish to aid in air velocity? thanks
I like to spray them with slip plate it makes it nice and slick as it is a graphite impregnated paint. I don't know if it helps but I like to think it does.
How much do you charge to do that to upgrade the Seiyu 3071 on the intake to a 3076 on the intake with the best impeller for 25+ pounds of boost
Brian, given that the impeller is both dimensionally accurate and *highly* polished, do you think there might be some performance benefit to be obtained by carefully "sizing" the compressor body and by also polishing the internal surfaces?
I seem to recall from my days as an idiot petrolhead youth, when we tried to obtain increases in horsepower (from engines that were entirely unsuited to that sort of exploitation) that smooth, polished inlet ports were regarded as being beneficial. When gas volumes and pressures are so much higher, perhaps polished inlet passages would help here too?
Hard to say. I once sent off a cover to get extrude honed smooth inside and it actually lost hp.
Nice
Did you ever clean up the turbo charger after putting in all of that work? It looked like it had a lot of flake and oil, I've seen too many of those wicked billet wheels blow up from people who don't clean them after they bored out the turbo. housing
Yes it went through the parts washer and air compressor before ever getting installed.
Have you found a way to make these nearly impossible to break? I am trying to find a turbo built as good as the new trash trucks turbo. They bark all day every day and are still running so they must be good.
I am not aware of anything impossible to break. The Hx60 is a pretty tough turbo but if you overspeed it it will go boom. The s400 Borg Warners are really tough turbos for the money.
Wow, you cut the curve by hand... that's tricky.
What part of the country are you located in? And do work on other holset turbos?
Central Ky. I mainly do Hx60's and larger.
remember to balance it. othervise it will explode, is it a hx60 ? is the wheel 76/119 mm ?
Diesel injection balances the assembly for me. It is an HX60 76/113mm I believe. Customer provided wheel I just made it fit.
Can you machine my Garrett GT 3788 compressor housing to fit a 66mm wheel?
Have you got a cover that matches the 66 wheel to copy the profile from?
Wow, profiling by hand
Is there anything you cant do ?
Do you offer compressor housing machining as a service?
Yes, that is how I get paid. Unless it is one off stuff like this for racing usually whoever does the wheels can do the covers much cheaper than I. if you are needing something custom done send me an email what it is and i can give you a quote.
what you dont have a shaping attachment on the lathe to do that radius??!
The radius varies so it is a more complex operation than a radius attachment would produce, you would have to do a series of various radii to get the proper curve.
and you did this by hand? hollyyy shit
How much would you charge me to do that to my turbo I have a Garrett tv8117 airesearch
Depends on the time it takes and how easy it is to setup. Typically $300-500
Can you machine out my wh1c housing to fit a 60mm compressor?
Yes but likely whoever you buy the wheel from could do it for cheaper.
Where can I get a 50mm billet wheel for an hx30 ?
Afraid I don’t know. I have never even seen an hx30 in person. I would start by looking on eBay.
you sure that's not your first time!!!!! LMAO but really good work
1st time that day! :-)
bcbloc02 Yea take it you do few of those
What model turbo is it ? Holset hx? 50
No that was an HX60.
Do you still do turbo modifications?
Yes
Heeegazz bri eyn hier weelcom baaak tu da shaop
Hi Brian,
Impressive coordination, I'll have to practice quite a bit more to get that result... ;)
Those impellers are to death for a very short moment, poor things, are they allowed to increase fan speed and raise pressure all together...?
Cheers, Pierre
No rules on max pressure or speed. You can twist them as hard as you dare. The worst thing is the backwards rule thinking oftentimes does not allow aftercoolers or intercoolers so the air is super hot like 600-700degF outlet temps. The heat is a major killer.
So do you balance the assembly it makes a huge difference to there life
The gap between wheel and housing loocks quite big, i had mine at 0.5mm yours looks 1mm
Holset are known to have a bit looser wheel to housing gap, even brand new factory ones are like that
how much mm space do you have on the side ?
1mm
bcbloc02
I never realized they had that big of a gap in between the compressor housing and compressor. .040 is bit more than I was expecting. I guess they need it from the heat being cold to when they warm up im sure they grow a bit.
@@bcbloc02 how much would be too much clearance? and what kind of issues would come from having something with a bit more of a gap between the inducer and the compressor inlet?
Shawn Huetter too big a gap you loose boost and efficiency.
Was the turbo laggy from that upgrade?
The bigger the wheel the more the lag yes. It doesn't matter for a racing application though.
Do you do upgrade on 4g63 turbo 20g?
I have not fooled with any of that stuff. I mainly only deal in 75mm and up turbos.
How much do you charge for this service?
steve long $100/hr so it depends what you got and need.
I don't understand the attraction of tractor pulling but to each his own. Thanks for posting, THUMBS UP.
For someone with a tractor manufacturer in your name I find your comment ironically amusing. ;O
Barry Gerbracht one and a half ;)
how to make Turbo compressor wheel?
Find a friend with a 5-axis. :-)
can you machine my h2e turbine housing to fit my new 62mm compressor wheel? if you dont live close by ill ship the parts and pay
Yes I can do it. Do you have a cover to get the contour from or will it have to be done based off the wheel only? Also you said turbine housing and compressor wheel but those 2 parts don’t go together?
@@bcbloc02 I misspoke, late nights I meant compressor housing. Right now it’s made to fit the stock 59.89mm compressor wheel, I want it to fit a new 62mm one
@@bcbloc02all I have is the stock cover and wheel and a new compressor wheel. No one wall aftermarket larger compressor housings anymore
@@enjoyer4128 is your comp cover the style bolted on with the plates? I actually think I may have a 62mm one of those. I don’t know what your performance plans are for it but there are lots better performing options than an h2e I quit messing with those and hx50s 20 years ago because they were very prone to breaking shafts and exploding.
@@bcbloc02 the only reason I’m building it is because it’s what I got and I don’t feel like going out and buying a new one yet, it has the ring thingy in the back that holds it on
What's that wheel cost?
Customer provided so I am not sure. You can buy various wheels from various sources ranging in price from $200 to $1000.
bcbloc02 thank, love the videos, especially the cummins swap in the one ton. Thanks again..dave
Glad you enjoy, be several 1st gen Cummins project videos coming in the future.
How much to bore one out wh1c ?
Depends on the size. Usually $200 that being said if it is for a 5.9l cummins I would not suggest it as the turbine wheel is a choke and a bigger comp wheel without a bigger exhaust doesn't perform well. I know as I have tested it.
@@bcbloc02 how about a cummins 4bt ?
@@unclebuck6291 what rpm do you run at and fueling? Bigger wheel will add lag but gain high rpm power. From 2500rpm and down stock(56mm like the intercooled trucks had) is best. Above 2500-3000 probably a gain.
@@bcbloc02 100 over injectors pump mods 60/60/12 turbo
@@bcbloc02 or a 62/64/12
Ah yes the old Hole (Holset) Shot Turbo!
Why dint you show what you did after 10:30 ? Clearly there is a huge difference on how the surface looks and it doesnt scrape the fins on the surface... The results after 10:30 looks great but before that count everything is poorly machined
All I did was hit it with some high temp paint and assembled it with the shaft to hold the wheel centered. Before when I was fitting it it was rubbing because there was nothing to guide it and I had it against the cover but in real life the thrust keeps it held away so the clearance is right.
tai
Very nice work.
The gap between wheel and housing loocks quite big, i had mine at 0.5mm yours looks 1mm
This 80mm wheel would grow into the housing with only .5mm clearance. It is unlikely you run 80+psi of boost.
bcbloc02 my turbo has 2.5 bar of boost max at 80.000rpm, yours will have 5.5 bar (80 psi?)wow, will reach 150.000 rpm?at that speed it will extend,grow....
Hey bud do you have an email or phone number you can be reached at thanks.
Bigbossfab@yahoo.com
harv