In the manga "Magi: Labyrinth of Magic" God was accidentally usurped by a wizard who then proceeded to create fate so that no one would have to feel pain. Unfortunatly his former colleagues hates him for stealing Gods powers so they spend all of eternity coming up with plans for making the world terrible so that the people will abondon the new God and go back to the old one.
I'm a former LDS member (Mormon) and if it helps, the "becoming God" theology makes more sense when you think about it in the context of human familial lines. LDS theology views God as a parent (actually parents) first and foremost. Children can grow up to become parents. It doesn't make them less of a parent that they themselves also have parents. Godly genealogy will be able to be traced back just like family genealogy. And the "worlds" that Gods create can be thought of as a child growing up, moving out, and starting their own home. It is one of the aspects of the theology that still makes a lot of sense to me, even if it isn't the typical Christian interpretation of God.
Eastern Orthodox Christianity has a deification process called theosis, that basically means becoming part of God, not merely joining him in an afterlife. God is still God, humans are still created beings, but its a unification that results in becoming God and (former) human.
I didn't expect to get Homestuck jumpscared here, though it was bound to happen at some point, I imagined it'd be brought up in a video about unconventional storytelling or something, unconventional in the aspect of its format that is, since it's more than just a webcomic but this weird visual novel hybrid thing. Awesome video as always. (‾◡◝)
I clicked this video thinking "this would be a good time for him to mention homestuck" and even still I was shocked to see it come up lmao. Got knocked back again when tale gave us their classpect
C. S. Lewis discussed apotheosis as well, not quite the "rule your own planet" variety of godhood, but more becoming mirrors to God's own glory. In Mere Christianity he states (speaking of God): "He said (in the Bible) that we were 'gods' and He is going to make good His words.... That is what we are in for. Nothing less."
Ah yes, the Theosis. One and only way of actually, fully being the God omnipotent (somewhat circumventing the issue of only possibly being one of that title). Instead of man becoming God, God becomes man, interestingly in this case not only *the* archetype of every man, but also literally, physically a man. Lewis deserves way more recognition than he gets, by the way.
Bionicle actually has an interesting take on this, with the Makuta Teridax achieving godhood. The Great Spirit is halfway between a god and a God, having near absolute power within his own universe (his body), but limited omniscience and no power outside (aside from, yknow, being a planet-sized robot). Makuta basically gave him an aneurysm, and did a switcheroo with his soul while they were rebooting him.
As someone who grew up in an lds family, and frequently hearing people speak about the religion that truly have taken it out of context, i really appreciate the fact that you did legitimate research and showed respect without necessarily having to agree with the faith. Thank you 🙏
@@robinarmstrong685 Oh! That makes sense, yeah! I must admit I don't know much about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I didn't even know it was called that. Thank you for teaching me something new!
As a member my self I appreciate that he not only understands our beliefs and has put research into it but also referenced the words of one of our Prophets
When talking about becoming a God and the Forgotten Realms, it’s hard not to bring up Karsus’s Avatar, the one and only twelfth-level spell in the Realms’s history. Believing the Netherese Empire to be dying because of magic-sucking monsters, the Archmage Karsus created the most powerful spell ever cast: target a God, and steal its powers and attributes. Hoping to save the empire thanks to those godly powers, he targeted Mystyl herself, the goddess of magic. However, in doing so, he momentarily disrupted the entire flow of magic through the Realms, causing the Netherese flying cities, including his own, to start falling from the sky. Mystryl eventually rebirthed herself as Mystra, it’s a thing she does, and limited magic to 9th level spells, but more interesting is the faith of Karsus himself, becoming one of the most inclassable power in the Forgotten Realms: not a God, but still bounded to the material plane from which his powers can be called, where he appears as a blood-covered boulder.
talking about the forgotten realms, i also like to bring up the fact that you have normal gods, but what interresting is that there is also something called an overgod named Ao. Ao rarely intervenes in mortal affairs, mainly obeseving, so powerful that he can strip away powers of other gods and prevent them for ascending, and permenantly damage them. It's interesting since Ao is more of the God with a capital G that was refered in the first part, but because of his nature, he rarely takes part in the affairs of the world. So that means that both types of gods are in the forgotten realms, but due overgod is just so alien in his thinking, you rarely get to see him so the normal gods are the ones that run the world essentially.
@@Crazor2000 Ao also is not dependent on worship. The smaller gods used to be similar, but Ao changed the rules after getting annoyed. Ao's overlordship is limited to the Forgotten Realms of Abeir-Toril and Realmspace. Ao is theorized to mean "Alpha and Omega", he is that universe itself personified, and worshipping any god, good or evil, also benefits him. There is another fan theory that Ao, Jergal and the Lady of Pain are the same species, deified survivors of the Spellweavers who tried to deify their entire race and destroyed/uncreated/recreated the universe into its present shape. The race was destroyed except for the members in hibernation stasis. Most modern Spellweavers were born since the self-genocide. A note about Jergal, Spellweavers would destroy threatening species by giving them gifts of great power--then they'd wait for the race to destroy itself. Their technology was used in fallen Netheril.
As an ex-Mormon, I was surprised to see my old religion show up in a Tale Foundry video! I think you did a good job of commenting on Mormonism's apotheosis doctrine. Honestly, I feel like Mormon theology has a *lot* of fascinating stuff in it that would be a good fit for this channel! The way I've always framed it is that just because I no longer personally believe in gods doesn't mean I can't appreciate the dope storytelling, worldbuilding, and mythology of the Book of Mormon and related works.
In one of my story settings the entire mythos I created revolves around the creator God, he himself being an ascended being that was previously mortal, having constructed the universe and all its intricacies for the purpose of ascending his mortal children into a state of apotheosis, thereby reaching his level, creating new gods to start the cycle anew. If it isn't too on the nose, I'm an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ, and this piece of worldbuilding is very much so based on said theological doctrine. And the beauty is, if you do believe in it, all the better for you. If you don't, no worries, it still makes for a fascinating snippet of unique worldbuilding that can make a setting stand out from the competition. I'm not here to convert, I'm here to build bridges through entertainment, so anyone can enjoy it.
seeing Homestuck be treated as a work of art to be thought about and enjoyed like any other felt really good and surprising. im so used to the constant barrage of “the fandom’s so weeiird, hey did you know a kid took a bath in shar-“ that this really felt like a breath of fresh air. also you just casually dropping your classpect right at the end really got me
Having Homestuck being represented in a dedicated section is such an oddly pleasant sensation. I'm so used to HS exclusively being talked about as "The problem child of fandoms" with nothing else mentioned, despite the complexity and development of what is a genuinely mysterious and thought-provoking world.
@@beanosbeanos956 I've actually noticed a bit of an uptick in relevance, recently. I'm not sure if there's a direct cause (Although I do know HS^2 recently started updating again, and people generally like the direction it's going so far), but I'm happy to see people enjoying the fandom again, either way.
Writing a story (and by “story” I mean “fanfic”) about five dead people getting amnesia and being reincarnated as eldritch gods. This will definitely come in handy!
@@RandomLuck12345To go into a bit more detail: in this universe there’s five super powerful eldritch entities (not exactly traditional gods because their powers, while still mighty, are pretty specific to whatever they’re associated with: like the “lowercase-g-gods” described in the video but there’s only five of them, but they are still described as gods) with lifespans of exactly 5,000 years. As soon as they die, five recently-deceased mortals are brought back from the dead, albeit with no memories, to take their place. The reason why this specifically is the way it works is because, according to the narration, the idea of a creature being born as a god is ridiculous because a child god would have no concept of responsibility for their actions and would probably just blow up the world or something.
@@RandomLuck12345 It is published. Hidden Depths by MarkerOnAComputer (me) on AO3, a comedy/angst Hatchetfield AU with 4 out of ??? chapters published. A bit weird, but for the most part it’s written so that non-Hatchetfield fans could still understand rather easily. Keep in mind that I’m not an awfully good writer though.
I like Shin Megami Tensei V’s interpretation. Every god exists at the same time, but only one throne. Once the creator God took the throne, he banished the gods “knowledge” into the tree of knowledge so that they can’t utilize the power. Now as the story followed, all humans have some mystic figure’s “knowledge” inside them and are capable of fusing with them into a powerful being known as a Nahobino who can utilize the throne
Fun Fact, u are the reason I started writing, and honestly, from the feedback I got all my short stories have been some of the most engaging the people I showed have read
An approach you can give to the book of Mormon caveat that you can give for other active religions: whether or not it’s fiction it is storytelling and that’s how you’re looking at it
@@TheTaleFoundry Also jokes on you because I imagine myself as the most powerful cosmic God in all of existence, and mind you cosmic gods create all the rules that galactic gods follow when creating ultravurses, and galactic gods create all the rules gods follow when creating multiverses, and demigods, So even Zeus the greak god of lightning 🌩️🌩️🌩️ has got nothing on me. 😂😂😂
I'm just going to watch the video about how eldritch horror is not scary and watch as I am helplessly washed away by awe and sublimation watching a divine force of nature fall to the hands of a mortal that discarded their humanity for power to enact simple pettiness.
This reminds me of a video idea I once had. It was also called "How to become a god" but focuses on how to have the same kind of power over others as a god, eg being rich (you can bless others with money or hire people to do bad things) or writing a book (complete control over the fictional universe.) I might go work on that idea tomorrow.
As a former Mormon I was so happy when you explored generational godhood. It was the part of the religion that kept me in it the longest, and I agree that it is is a very interesting lore.
Actually, Homestuck makes a perfect circle for every question one can ask, including who made each and every universe, and who is to blame for all that.
You know, I'm working on my book involving a lot of gods, with the main character essentially having her soul TIED to a god and the book revolving around what that means. Videos like this are simultaneously inspirational and demoralizing, because it gives me new ideas, but also makes it hard to not think that every idea has already been had. while i was listening I was like "ooh what if I do a story with a king who's rule is predicated in him conning people into thinking hes a god?" And then you brought up basically that story. Its wild. This is a great video though
I always saw it as this. Even though the idea may have existed before and been used many times, you are the only one who can use said ideas your way. You’re the only one who can write the story, and finish the way you want it to. So don’t be demoralized by it, unless it gives you more inspiration
Side Note: Light Yagami shows up in another series called Death Parade in the afterlife. He's become so influential the Auditors have no idea what to do with him. Then we jump back to a limited release of Death Note in Japan only that shows they ultimately made him a Death God
I was totally expecting Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint to be mentioned in this episode! It would have been a perfect example of the entire concept. It would have also been perfect for a channel called Tale Foundry! The whole concept of ascension to Godhood is to collect tales and fables pertaining to your own feats. References to other tales and Gods of other countries and religions litter throughout the entire story! Even characters from The Wizard of Oz are given Godhood just because their story is so widely known and popular. The death of a God is to be a forgotten tale. Outer Gods of the horrifying Lovecraftian mythos are the twisted and forgotten 'Constellations' or Gods who wish for the destruction or attention from those still known. The very makeup of Gods and Constellations are their fables. When wounded they bleed the words of their stories. When they wish to make deals they trade fables between other 'Constellations'. The tales of lesser beings are considered a delicacy much sought after and savored. I won't give away anymore! It's such an amazing story! If you read anything, it should be this story!
I’ve been doing a lot of worldbuilding lately, especially with my pantheons in the world, and this video has actually helped me out quite a bit. I just want to thank you for always encouraging writers and worldbuilders to pursue our passions, especially through the content you produce. Also, as a member of the LDS church, I want to thank you for showing your respect for us and not letting any sort of personal bias (good or bad) influence your content and the points you make, it means a lot.
The first thought that came to my mind with the "hard to do a story where a omnipotent god is replaced" was Mirai Nikki ("Future Diary") where the god of that world finds himself dying and decides to find a successor through a death game. It's eventually revealed that the show takes place in a second iteration of this death game, having been recreated by the winner of the first one to lead to a similar, but different, outcome.
Hey TaleFoundry! As an LDS member, I appreciate you addressing the religion in a respectful manner. It’s oftentimes disheartening to see how popular media takes things out of context and falsely portrays us as “freaks” of sorts, so I appreciate the thought you put into this. Thank you.
In D&D gods come and leave existence based on belief. Some random person could just come up with a god and if they get enough people to belief in it, it comes into existence.
The gods of “Nice Dragons Finish Last” are an interesting take on gods. In their world deities are created with a large enough amount of thought being placed on them. Slowly they become sentient and develop a will and restrictions based on their domains.
it's funny, as someone who grew up culturally mormon (though never spiritually), their concept of becoming gods of our own innumerable universes was the first thing I thought of when I saw this video
I’m surprised you didn’t talk about The Stars My Destination. That entire book is how a single act of abandonment turned a common spacemen into a messiah/godlike figure.
In the web novel "Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint", people are "sponsored" by beings called Constellations. These beings are gods, mythological heroes, and even historical figures. The Constellation's power is linked to how well-known its history is. Those sponsored by Constellations are granted special skills, and the people with personality traits (such as a sense of justice, bloodthirst, the ability to influence people, etc) similar to their constellations, become more powerful. At the story's beginning, our main character doesn't choose any Constellation to sponsor him, but as the story progresses, he makes some deals with them. Later in the story, due to his feats, he becomes a constellation. I won't tell more about it, since I would be entering spoiler territory, but it's pretty interesting that in this story, the Constellations (which are the concept of "god" in the story) mix both the idea of ascension and deification you showed there.
I was waiting for a reference to the god emperor of Dune Leto II because its a really good example of how one becomes a god by merging with a deity and the impacts it can have in its life
The fact that Sanderson is a Mormon makes the inclusion of both the BoM and Mistborn in this video very interesting, though I'm not sure what conclusions we should draw from the fact that they can compared in this aspect.
Plenty of fantasy tabletop roleplaying games and video games have apotheosizing as gods as a concept. There's Talos from the Elder Scrolls, formerly Tiber Septim, who was formerly a human before ascending into a deity and becoming a part of the Nine Divines. Likewise, Runequest and Glorantha have certain figures apotheosizing as deities like Sartar, Arkat, the Seven Mothers, the Emperors of Kralorela and possibly Argrath at the end of the Hero Wars
That talk about "complete control over a domain of your own making" is EXACTLY the appeal I find with writing...or, in that one very rare time, making my own video game. That's exactly how I describe it when all the pieces come together working as I intended: "I feel like a GOD!" Having gone through a few of your videos now in a big sleep-deprived binge, I like your generally impartial tone throughout.
In my own giant series I have slowly cooking right now, I can say that the ideas from this video are definitely fun to work with. Also as an LDS Mormon, I can say that yes that statement is in fact a thing.
This is the ABSOLUTE last place I would have expected ******* Homestuck. Also, I dare you to do a video on the tangability of "canon" and "non-canon" within the Homestuck universe. I would be happy to talk and help explain it if you would like.
I think one aspect of being a god that a lot of people overlook is the ability to think up something that has never existed. Not just something that hasn't been created yet within the confines of the laws of this universe that we understand but but creating something that has no previous thing to base it on, true creation from nothing.
Funny coincidence: this morning I finished an audio book where the protagonist became a god by accident. It was a surprising ending. As for me, being a writer is kind of like being a god. You create entire worlds and decide what happens in the world. You create the characters, the lore, the settings. It's quite a heady experience, when you think of it that way.
Generally I can distinguish three levels of godhood: 1) Demi-gods and lesser gods. Are entities, including close to mortals. Who are basically just humans and spirits who may be worshipped as the gods. Even if they really aren't that in literal sense. It is also where most god slaying happen. 2) Classic gods are entities of immense power, who are actually incarnation of some elements of the world. As such worship of them commonly is justified. Though it should be pointed out that despite that most religions show them as humans, they almost always are not that. But only appear as human if even do that. Fun fact, true dragons are in fact a gods, who simply lack skill or will to interact with humans. Not giant lizards. Same is actually true for angels, who are exactly those eldritch horrors, just in service of the God. This category is rarely slain and usually demand involvement of at least demigod. 3) Absolute, so the big "G" God. Those are beings who are base of entire creation. Not just creators as architects. But they removal would literally uncreate the reality. Because they are beyond even celestial comprehension, eldritch to even the eldritch. They rarely interact with people and commonly show sights of being forms of Overmind, sometimes using lesser forms to interact with they creation. In case of Christianity it is the Trinity (and yes, God the Father is actually not the God as a whole). In Judaism God has seven avatars known as Ophanim (Thrones), one of who has additional three Archangel Forms: King of Angels and Voice of God Metatron (the one who sit on Emerald Throne), King of Sheol and Archangel of Destruction Sandelphon (who despite the name is angel of Creation, who control four Living Beasts. As elemental angels who also may be a elements of the God) and Archangel of Wisom Raziel Helel, who play form of Arbiter. Being technically equal to seven regular Archangel and providing also as Christ, creator insight to creation. As he is most humane part of the God. Despite being a "Lamb". In case of Hinduism, all gods are avatars of Braman to a degree. Especially Krishna. PS: Honorable mention that gods can also be Clarktechian Aliens and TBH form a point it does resemble crazy Shin Megami Tensei style AI nonsense. So who know? Maybe we actually are simulation after all?
omg I just opened this video to randomly watch while getting ready for work, I didn’t expect it to be about Homestuck! ah the memories… I’ll die on the hill that the story of Homestuck, although random, confusing and absurd is actually pretty solid. Thank you for making this video!
A great manga called "To Your Eternity" is the story of God creating his own replacement. And has a very interesting and unique way of preparing its protagonist to take over the role of God. I highly recommend checking it out. Also, "Solo Leveling", but I feel like that one is already more well-known and appreciated. Cannot wait for the show to come out.
In Homestuck, arguably some characters are "as omniscient as it is possible to be". There's no such thing as "all knowledge condensed to a point" - it still has to be acquired in some way either for the first time or as a form of recollection (I don't think it's clear which is the more appropriate way to think about it). There are characters that can acquire any bit of knowledge by "navigating" through some "path" in the void.
On a related note, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine examines the problem of becoming a god, as well as many other interesting subjects, as well. Thank you for mentioning TOS and thank you for the video. Keep making stuff up and LLAP!🖖
After playing slay the princess the third video of this series could be "how to create a God" (as a mortal) kinda like the (omega spoiler) narrator does with the shifting mound and the long quiet
@TheTaleFoundry I just wanted to say thank you for how respectful you were when talking out the Book of Mormon and Mormon theology. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or the "Mormon Church," and it is not super common to see references to our beliefs or religion be done with that much care. I believe that everyone's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) should be respected, and it is obvious that you feel that way as well. Thanks again for being awesome and for the wonderful content you make!
you may have gotten some homestuck bits wrong but you pretty much summed it up as well as anyone else. (edit: also glad to see you have reached one of the best pieces of fiction i have ever encountered, it's far from perfect but that just makes it better.)
@@Fruz they didn't particularly got anything "wrong" (i may have miss-typed there, apologies) there are just many interpretations but 1. homestuck involves more then just those 4 kids. 2. the meteor shower isn't caused by the game it may be predestined to happen. 3. the denizen isn't just "a monster to defeat" it's much more then that. 4. prototyping doesn't need to be something dead or dying but possibly could be preferred to a living prototyping because later in a sburb session the kernalsprites tend to die. 5. a big part of beating sburb is dependent on the universe frog being created but it's not the be all end all of wining the game. 6. the players universe was created by the trolls but that's just one thing he didn't mention. nevertheless apologies on the paragraph i just wanted to shed some light on some things i know but i don't know everything for sure. (edit: and in fairness he was trying to do a short 5 minute summery of something that could realistically take 6 hours to explain in depth.)
One trope ive seen used occasionally is the idea that an omniscient and omnipotent god can 'pass on' their powers to a new soul. One instance this is used is in the cartoon Amphibia - in the final episode, the main character is greeted by an entity who is implied to be omniscient and omnipotent, and wants to give its powers to the main character because it wants to retire. A similar use of this trope can be seen late in the Mistborn trilogy, when the main character absorbs the power of Preservation (though she wasnt technically omniscient at that point, since Ruin would counteract everything she did with an opposite move of equal power).
This was SUCH a good video. I had already made the comparisons between mormonism and homestuck before, but the tidbit of mormon esoterica was such a delight to hear. Plus one of my favorite fantasy stories(Mistborn(Brandon Sanderson is a mormon by the way)) and one of my formative book series(Deathnote), and even Star Trek is in here. Its wonderful!
The anime No Game No Life actually plays with both God and gods: there is a a pantheon of gods (god of good, god of elves, etc), but they're just "first among equals", with the True God - Tet - being show to have the power to reshape reality as He sees fit. At one time, Tet was just a "god", but the background is that he won a great war/contest and took over as the True God.
The 12 trolls made the 4 human kids universe. And I think it was the 23 squid things that made the trolls universe? It's been a while since I got into the lore and theories of homestuck.
homestuck is always such a surprise no matter where its mentioned. also the "who created the players og universes" is sort of answered in the comic itself (spoilers btw of act 6 and forwards) caliborn makes the trolls universes first instance (Ancestor trolls), then persists on it after the scratch via Doc Scratch and the code associated to him, then the history relevant trolls make the cancerous universe of the og kids, and then the og kids (or beta kids) scratch their own universe to make the alpha kids of act 6 and finally introduce caliborn/calliope who the alpha kids talk to additionally John did kind of achieve omniscience via the retcon power thing
homestuck jumpscare!! absolutely love the mention tho. I absolutely love the mass amounts of worldbuilding (mainly incomplete and left to fan interpretation) in homestuck. It wasn’t answered in the video so I’ll explain. The human’s universe was made from another game of sburb in another universe, which happens to be the trolls. That’s how they come into the story. And the trolls’ universe were made by the Cherubs. It seems that all universes were made by another and will all make a new universe through a game similar to sburb (just has a different name)
Well I was 34 years old when I finally learned the plot of homestuck because someone FINALLY explained it in a way that makes fuckin sense. Thank you Tale Foundry!
The pantheon of Eberron, according to the dragons, goes through cycles just like the world. Every time the world is created, there is a great war between dragons and demons in which some exceptional dragons (and possibly demons) become the legendary inspiration for the gods of humans and most demihumans (Sovereigns). For example, Aureon, the Sovereign of magic, law, and lore, who shed his Shadow to learn the secrets of magic, is said by dragons to be inspired by Ourelonastrix, who learned arcane magic from a demon now called the Shadow in the Flame, and taught it to other dragons, thus creating the tradition of arcane magic that humans were eventually taught. The similarities in names are fairly obvious. Similarly, in each new cycle, some Sovereigns of the previous cycle join the ranks of the dragon gods (Bahamut, Tiamat, etc) from other settings, and some among the dragon gods became the Progenitor Dragons, Siberyis above, Khyber below, and Eberron in the middle. These are primordial deities, like Uranus and Gaia, who begin the new world in a grand conflict so that the war between dragons and demons can be fought and new Sovereigns can be selected. There is a human religion based on this idea called the "Church of the Wyrm Ascendant," who worship the Sovereign Host, but also strive to emulate dragons, and believe that they can either reincarnate as dragons or pass into an afterlife created by one of the Sovereigns or dragon gods (unlike other D&D settings, any afterlife beyond a Purgatory-like realm that swallows your soul is more of a belief, as once you pass through Eberron's Purgatory, you cannot be resurrected, so they have no witnesses to any possible afterlives that may exist).
In the D&D 5e actual play series, Critical Role, the goddess of Death, the Matron of Ravens, was once a mortal woman, a scientist, who managed to somehow replace the previous god of Death, but upon doing so, she erased the method she used to do so from history because the cost was far too great. (She is heavily based on the Raven Queen from base D&D, who had a similar ascension, but is set apart by being the only god in the Critical Role world, Exandria, to ever do so)
A rather straight example of replacing a capital G god. In the animanga "Mirai Nikki", the core issue is that capital G god got depressed being so much more than anyone else and sets up a death game to select its replacement. Once the death game concludes a new nearly-identical universe is created via the ascendance of the new capital G god. The previous capital G god gets to stop existing (which is what they want to happen in this case).
as a member of the LDS church, It is both disorienting and exhilarating to hear someone mention our faith on UA-cam ina respectful manner. Thank you, I do appreciate it.
funny thing about this is that my father had (I don't know if it's still running) a religion dedicated to his way of life, and it wasn't started by him.
@rmb6037 you know, that was my response too. The person who started it was my uncle on my mom's side. When I heard about it, he said that the only time he had heard about it was when there were like 80 members. He told me about it 6 years ago and said he heard about it 7 years prior. If it's still around, it'd be around 15 years old.
Watching you talk about Homestuck is the most surreal thing for me, because nobody really does anymore. So that short moment has made me very happy, and also Seer of Heart, I love that.
I know in Kate Daniels there's a couple paths. For one if you can convince enough people to believe you are a god you become one, the side effect of this is that you no longer have free will and your actions and beliefs are dependent on your believer's perceptions of you. Sufficiently Powerful Magic Users can also essentially consume smaller Gods to gain their powers (although they remain mortal). Because technically it's possible for gods with only a small congregation to be weaker than the most powerful magic users. The god remains a separate entity, but it's still trapped in the body of the Magic User and their powers aren't always theirs to control. There's also a whole set of other consequences for the Magic User themselves.
Big brain time: Make a book or game. You become the “god” of the universe that book or game takes place in, especially if you insert yourself into the book.
Fr, I've written a ton of unrelated story concepts, the idea is that each of them will have tiny easter eggs connecting them until my final written work involves the characters having to confront me, their god. I'm trying to figure out just how far back the fourth wall goes lol
Another take is one most memorable to me in A Practical Guide to Evil. (this story is definitely not the first to do so, but it stood out among them) In the volumes, you become more aware that besides the everpresent Choirs of angels (the Above) modeled after Hebrew classifications, and the infinite hells, (the Below) are also formerly mortal gods. These gods are not created through faith or through election -although borrowing power from an otherworldly source certainly helps- but in 2 other ways. A god can be forged through sheer power, amassed through any multitude of ways. One such are the Sve Noc, twin godesses of the Night, who by taking part in ritual slaughter, compressed the power of the Drow (known as "Night") for millenia. They eventually devoured the power of the Queen of Winter, a Fae Goddess, and used the sum of Night and Winter to create a new Godhood. This is the most common form that you hear of in PGtE, but not the only. The other main form is through symbolic and metaphysical significance. This story uses such principles heavily, so explaining too much nuance is a bit beyond the effort im willing to give. (go read it for more depth) A great example is the creation of the Court of Twilight, and its King of the same name. Sourcing their power from the Queen of Winter, a hunt of Fae served her as a vanguard. When Winter was devoured by Night, this now became their source of power. With promise of Seven Crowns and One (a pattern of sacrifice in history repeated so often that it gained metaphysical significance) they were granted the ability to rule themselves, thus creating a new, unique, Fae Court. Their power, despite coming from the remains of Winter and Night, its comsumer, is not beholden to either. It is shaped by their history and experiences, thus carrying enough symbolic meaning to create a throne of godhood in its own right. TL;DR In some stories, gods also come from a well of power given shape, or from symbolic significance in the world itself being *worthy* of such power.
One of my favorite ideas on how one can become a god is from the Goat Valley Campgrounds series. The premise is that there are creatures born from the collective psyche of mankind. Darkness that devours you, a spiderwoman in a isolated forest cottage, a man who can convince anyone to betray you, and.....Santa Clause among others. Most are nameless and relatively weak, but pretty much every creature from folklore is present, at least lore wise, in the universe. The strongest of these creatures, such as Santa Clause, are...yeah gods. The central story revolves around the MC trying to navigate running her campground with doubles as a sanctuary and prison for many such creatures. At one point, a friend is kidnapped by one such creature, a house on the side of a lonely dark road with a monster inside (the house and creature are one entity and can move around and vanish). When she tracks it down and enters to save her friend, the monster, a gutted deer hanging from the ceiling basically, starts tormenting her and telling her it's going to kill both of them unless they satisfy it in some way. During the whole exchange, it keeps repeating its demands to "Love me. Fear me. Worship me." As its demanding grows more incessant, she realizes what the nature of all these creatures are. They're born from the collective thoughts of mankind....and that's all they are. Their existence, their powers and strength, are entirely dependant on humanity's thoughts on them. The Monster in the Darkness....what more common fear is there? Santa Clause, perhaps the single most universally agreed on and beloved figure across the world. The pagan gods and creatures of old, the Olympians....worshipped. Each of those acts solidifies and reinforces the creatures' existence....and she realizes the house monster is dying...because no one loves or worships it...and the few people that knew of it, well, two of them, her and her friend, both willing stepped inside knowing it was a monster and overcame their fear of it to save someone, taking away its one source of existence....and she feels pity for the dying thing, and loses the last shred of fear she had for it and it stops existing (though it does try and almost succeeds in killing her and her friend as it's dying). Spoiler: The series actually ends with her becoming one of these creatures, due to the love, fear, and worship of the people online who were reading her posts (the reader included) about about everything she's been doing.
In the manga "Magi: Labyrinth of Magic" God was accidentally usurped by a wizard who then proceeded to create fate so that no one would have to feel pain. Unfortunatly his former colleagues hates him for stealing Gods powers so they spend all of eternity coming up with plans for making the world terrible so that the people will abondon the new God and go back to the old one.
Good lord, I love Magi ;;
That sounds awesome. I'll have to check it out.
I forget the group name.
Magi is extreme. Fr.
@williamcompitello2302 it's al-thamen i think
Never thought I would see a direct comparison made between the Mormon church and Homestuck but it makes a surprising amount of sense 😂
Lol I remember one time my buddy skipped seminary to catch up on homestuck on his phone in the church foyer.
@@thomasnorton4015it might have been a cult but I remember a lot of good memories from seminary
This not the first time
i just...I just scroll down when I was watching the video and see this made me scared.
@@samBrightuelhaha same.
I'm a former LDS member (Mormon) and if it helps, the "becoming God" theology makes more sense when you think about it in the context of human familial lines. LDS theology views God as a parent (actually parents) first and foremost. Children can grow up to become parents. It doesn't make them less of a parent that they themselves also have parents. Godly genealogy will be able to be traced back just like family genealogy. And the "worlds" that Gods create can be thought of as a child growing up, moving out, and starting their own home. It is one of the aspects of the theology that still makes a lot of sense to me, even if it isn't the typical Christian interpretation of God.
Eastern Orthodox Christianity has a deification process called theosis, that basically means becoming part of God, not merely joining him in an afterlife. God is still God, humans are still created beings, but its a unification that results in becoming God and (former) human.
@@Badficwriterthe last bit is incorrect
It makes sense however it seems we don't have any people who have become god this time around
Oddly enough it sounds not so dissimilar to the xianxia (cultivation fantasy) genre
Imagine being an adult and believing this.
I didn't expect to get Homestuck jumpscared here, though it was bound to happen at some point, I imagined it'd be brought up in a video about unconventional storytelling or something, unconventional in the aspect of its format that is, since it's more than just a webcomic but this weird visual novel hybrid thing. Awesome video as always. (‾◡◝)
I clicked this video thinking "this would be a good time for him to mention homestuck" and even still I was shocked to see it come up lmao. Got knocked back again when tale gave us their classpect
I honestly expected it in the "is mythology dead" video as many say Homestuck is a modern take on a creation myth
C. S. Lewis discussed apotheosis as well, not quite the "rule your own planet" variety of godhood, but more becoming mirrors to God's own glory. In Mere Christianity he states (speaking of God): "He said (in the Bible) that we were 'gods' and He is going to make good His words.... That is what we are in for. Nothing less."
Ah yes, the Theosis. One and only way of actually, fully being the God omnipotent (somewhat circumventing the issue of only possibly being one of that title). Instead of man becoming God, God becomes man, interestingly in this case not only *the* archetype of every man, but also literally, physically a man.
Lewis deserves way more recognition than he gets, by the way.
Bionicle actually has an interesting take on this, with the Makuta Teridax achieving godhood. The Great Spirit is halfway between a god and a God, having near absolute power within his own universe (his body), but limited omniscience and no power outside (aside from, yknow, being a planet-sized robot). Makuta basically gave him an aneurysm, and did a switcheroo with his soul while they were rebooting him.
Brings back old memories
That old lore was way better than it had any right to be. Bionicle was the good shit.
That's a GREAT example! If you can't obtain your own godhood, someone else's (namely Mata Nui's) is fine 😂
Just like Santa Claus in the movies
This is the story of the Bionicle.
"i'm sorry daddy, i've been a bad girl" "for the last time, it's 'forgive me father for i have sinned' " is one of those great quotes!
As someone who grew up in an lds family, and frequently hearing people speak about the religion that truly have taken it out of context, i really appreciate the fact that you did legitimate research and showed respect without necessarily having to agree with the faith. Thank you 🙏
Agreed. It's a rare change of pace even if I feel it glosses over some of the nuance.
May I ask: what is an "lds family"? I've never heard that term before, and I'm curious about what it means.
@@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV"LDS" is an abbreviation for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, known colloquially as Mormons.
@@robinarmstrong685 Oh! That makes sense, yeah! I must admit I don't know much about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I didn't even know it was called that. Thank you for teaching me something new!
As a member my self I appreciate that he not only understands our beliefs and has put research into it but also referenced the words of one of our Prophets
When talking about becoming a God and the Forgotten Realms, it’s hard not to bring up Karsus’s Avatar, the one and only twelfth-level spell in the Realms’s history.
Believing the Netherese Empire to be dying because of magic-sucking monsters, the Archmage Karsus created the most powerful spell ever cast: target a God, and steal its powers and attributes. Hoping to save the empire thanks to those godly powers, he targeted Mystyl herself, the goddess of magic. However, in doing so, he momentarily disrupted the entire flow of magic through the Realms, causing the Netherese flying cities, including his own, to start falling from the sky. Mystryl eventually rebirthed herself as Mystra, it’s a thing she does, and limited magic to 9th level spells, but more interesting is the faith of Karsus himself, becoming one of the most inclassable power in the Forgotten Realms: not a God, but still bounded to the material plane from which his powers can be called, where he appears as a blood-covered boulder.
talking about the forgotten realms, i also like to bring up the fact that you have normal gods, but what interresting is that there is also something called an overgod named Ao.
Ao rarely intervenes in mortal affairs, mainly obeseving, so powerful that he can strip away powers of other gods and prevent them for ascending, and permenantly damage them.
It's interesting since Ao is more of the God with a capital G that was refered in the first part, but because of his nature, he rarely takes part in the affairs of the world.
So that means that both types of gods are in the forgotten realms, but due overgod is just so alien in his thinking, you rarely get to see him so the normal gods are the ones that run the world essentially.
@@Crazor2000 Ao also is not dependent on worship. The smaller gods used to be similar, but Ao changed the rules after getting annoyed. Ao's overlordship is limited to the Forgotten Realms of Abeir-Toril and Realmspace. Ao is theorized to mean "Alpha and Omega", he is that universe itself personified, and worshipping any god, good or evil, also benefits him.
There is another fan theory that Ao, Jergal and the Lady of Pain are the same species, deified survivors of the Spellweavers who tried to deify their entire race and destroyed/uncreated/recreated the universe into its present shape. The race was destroyed except for the members in hibernation stasis. Most modern Spellweavers were born since the self-genocide. A note about Jergal, Spellweavers would destroy threatening species by giving them gifts of great power--then they'd wait for the race to destroy itself. Their technology was used in fallen Netheril.
If I remember correctly, Karsus turned into a Great Old One.
As an ex-Mormon, I was surprised to see my old religion show up in a Tale Foundry video! I think you did a good job of commenting on Mormonism's apotheosis doctrine. Honestly, I feel like Mormon theology has a *lot* of fascinating stuff in it that would be a good fit for this channel! The way I've always framed it is that just because I no longer personally believe in gods doesn't mean I can't appreciate the dope storytelling, worldbuilding, and mythology of the Book of Mormon and related works.
In one of my story settings the entire mythos I created revolves around the creator God, he himself being an ascended being that was previously mortal, having constructed the universe and all its intricacies for the purpose of ascending his mortal children into a state of apotheosis, thereby reaching his level, creating new gods to start the cycle anew.
If it isn't too on the nose, I'm an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ, and this piece of worldbuilding is very much so based on said theological doctrine. And the beauty is, if you do believe in it, all the better for you. If you don't, no worries, it still makes for a fascinating snippet of unique worldbuilding that can make a setting stand out from the competition. I'm not here to convert, I'm here to build bridges through entertainment, so anyone can enjoy it.
seeing Homestuck be treated as a work of art to be thought about and enjoyed like any other felt really good and surprising. im so used to the constant barrage of “the fandom’s so weeiird, hey did you know a kid took a bath in shar-“ that this really felt like a breath of fresh air. also you just casually dropping your classpect right at the end really got me
Having Homestuck being represented in a dedicated section is such an oddly pleasant sensation. I'm so used to HS exclusively being talked about as "The problem child of fandoms" with nothing else mentioned, despite the complexity and development of what is a genuinely mysterious and thought-provoking world.
Very bizarre feeling as a homestuck to not be hated and reviled wherever you go
@@beanosbeanos956 I've actually noticed a bit of an uptick in relevance, recently. I'm not sure if there's a direct cause (Although I do know HS^2 recently started updating again, and people generally like the direction it's going so far), but I'm happy to see people enjoying the fandom again, either way.
@@Avruthlelbh HS^2 started _what_ ?!
Writing a story (and by “story” I mean “fanfic”) about five dead people getting amnesia and being reincarnated as eldritch gods. This will definitely come in handy!
What is the fanfic about?
@@RandomLuck12345it’s about five dead people getting amnesia and being reincarnated as eldritch gods (/serious). Can’t you read (/joking)!?
@@RandomLuck12345To go into a bit more detail: in this universe there’s five super powerful eldritch entities (not exactly traditional gods because their powers, while still mighty, are pretty specific to whatever they’re associated with: like the “lowercase-g-gods” described in the video but there’s only five of them, but they are still described as gods) with lifespans of exactly 5,000 years. As soon as they die, five recently-deceased mortals are brought back from the dead, albeit with no memories, to take their place.
The reason why this specifically is the way it works is because, according to the narration, the idea of a creature being born as a god is ridiculous because a child god would have no concept of responsibility for their actions and would probably just blow up the world or something.
Where are you planing to publish it. This sounds like a very interesting story
@@RandomLuck12345 It is published. Hidden Depths by MarkerOnAComputer (me) on AO3, a comedy/angst Hatchetfield AU with 4 out of ??? chapters published. A bit weird, but for the most part it’s written so that non-Hatchetfield fans could still understand rather easily. Keep in mind that I’m not an awfully good writer though.
I like Shin Megami Tensei V’s interpretation. Every god exists at the same time, but only one throne. Once the creator God took the throne, he banished the gods “knowledge” into the tree of knowledge so that they can’t utilize the power. Now as the story followed, all humans have some mystic figure’s “knowledge” inside them and are capable of fusing with them into a powerful being known as a Nahobino who can utilize the throne
I was about to comment about smt
Fun Fact, u are the reason I started writing, and honestly, from the feedback I got all my short stories have been some of the most engaging the people I showed have read
A true judge of your writing skills is to find someone who reads all the time and ask for their opinion.
Instructions unclear, became a dictator
The How-To Guide we all need
❌ I am a man.
❌ I am a woman.
✔ I am a god!
An approach you can give to the book of Mormon caveat that you can give for other active religions: whether or not it’s fiction it is storytelling and that’s how you’re looking at it
I was waiting in tense anticipation for you to mention Brandon Sanderson. I got very happy when you did
Ferb, I know what we're gonna do today
LOL
-Benji, showrunner
@@TheTaleFoundry Also jokes on you because I imagine myself as the most powerful cosmic God in all of existence, and mind you cosmic gods create all the rules that galactic gods follow when creating ultravurses, and galactic gods create all the rules gods follow when creating multiverses, and demigods, So even Zeus the greak god of lightning 🌩️🌩️🌩️ has got nothing on me. 😂😂😂
Thank you for this video, Tale Foundry! I'll certainly become a god after following the steps in this video.
More a Satanist. First thing needed to rejoin God in godhood is to become humble. Irony in its prime.
Oooooo no you don't, just wait until I watch the vid on how to kill gods
I'm just going to watch the video about how eldritch horror is not scary and watch as I am helplessly washed away by awe and sublimation watching a divine force of nature fall to the hands of a mortal that discarded their humanity for power to enact simple pettiness.
whats your classpect, then?
@@modragon1936I am ahead of you in the line to do so. You have to a number first to get in the right line. 🙃🙃😁😁
This reminds me of a video idea I once had. It was also called "How to become a god" but focuses on how to have the same kind of power over others as a god, eg being rich (you can bless others with money or hire people to do bad things) or writing a book (complete control over the fictional universe.) I might go work on that idea tomorrow.
And I confirm that you miss the point.
Can you send it to this reply section when your done (I personally an writing my own story and this kinda stuff is kinda helping alot)
@@TheRezro No, you did, its clear they had a different idea and stated so
“Anyone can become a god or devil. All it takes is for someone to believe it.” -Eren Kruger, Attack on Titan
As a former Mormon I was so happy when you explored generational godhood. It was the part of the religion that kept me in it the longest, and I agree that it is is a very interesting lore.
Following up LDS with Homestuck was a real one two punch
I’m really happy that you guys bought back subtitles. Keep up the great work and thank you.
Actually, Homestuck makes a perfect circle for every question one can ask, including who made each and every universe, and who is to blame for all that.
6:34 I genuinely spat out my drink; definitely didn’t expect Homestuck to get mentioned on this channel.
Finally a useful tutorial.
Haha 😁🤗😄
You know, I'm working on my book involving a lot of gods, with the main character essentially having her soul TIED to a god and the book revolving around what that means. Videos like this are simultaneously inspirational and demoralizing, because it gives me new ideas, but also makes it hard to not think that every idea has already been had. while i was listening I was like "ooh what if I do a story with a king who's rule is predicated in him conning people into thinking hes a god?" And then you brought up basically that story. Its wild. This is a great video though
I always saw it as this. Even though the idea may have existed before and been used many times, you are the only one who can use said ideas your way. You’re the only one who can write the story, and finish the way you want it to. So don’t be demoralized by it, unless it gives you more inspiration
Side Note: Light Yagami shows up in another series called Death Parade in the afterlife. He's become so influential the Auditors have no idea what to do with him. Then we jump back to a limited release of Death Note in Japan only that shows they ultimately made him a Death God
Wait how am I just learning about this. Light was in Death Parade?
Getting slapped in the face with sudden Homestuck was very funny, thanks. XD Wasn't really expecting my worlds to collide like that.
I was totally expecting Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint to be mentioned in this episode! It would have been a perfect example of the entire concept. It would have also been perfect for a channel called Tale Foundry! The whole concept of ascension to Godhood is to collect tales and fables pertaining to your own feats. References to other tales and Gods of other countries and religions litter throughout the entire story! Even characters from The Wizard of Oz are given Godhood just because their story is so widely known and popular. The death of a God is to be a forgotten tale. Outer Gods of the horrifying Lovecraftian mythos are the twisted and forgotten 'Constellations' or Gods who wish for the destruction or attention from those still known. The very makeup of Gods and Constellations are their fables. When wounded they bleed the words of their stories. When they wish to make deals they trade fables between other 'Constellations'. The tales of lesser beings are considered a delicacy much sought after and savored.
I won't give away anymore! It's such an amazing story! If you read anything, it should be this story!
ORV is a great story. I've been keeping up with the web comic, but I've been tempted to read the novel just to see what happens next.
Give into temptation!! It's amazing! The webtoon follows the books very closely, but books are always better and more descriptive in my opinion.
It’s refreshing to hear someone talk about the Mormon(LDS) church in a respectful and objective manner for once. Thank you Tale Foundry!
The intro still gives me chills every time
I’ve been doing a lot of worldbuilding lately, especially with my pantheons in the world, and this video has actually helped me out quite a bit. I just want to thank you for always encouraging writers and worldbuilders to pursue our passions, especially through the content you produce.
Also, as a member of the LDS church, I want to thank you for showing your respect for us and not letting any sort of personal bias (good or bad) influence your content and the points you make, it means a lot.
Homestuck getting mentioned in a tale foundry video was one hell of a jumpscare.
The first thought that came to my mind with the "hard to do a story where a omnipotent god is replaced" was Mirai Nikki ("Future Diary") where the god of that world finds himself dying and decides to find a successor through a death game.
It's eventually revealed that the show takes place in a second iteration of this death game, having been recreated by the winner of the first one to lead to a similar, but different, outcome.
Finally, the tutorial I need to get revenge on the guy who started the "who asked" trend.
But what if that guy watched the tutorial to how to kill a god?
@@MrBoo703who
You looking good 😉
@@scauldfire3498 sir, I am a minor.
Hey TaleFoundry! As an LDS member, I appreciate you addressing the religion in a respectful manner. It’s oftentimes disheartening to see how popular media takes things out of context and falsely portrays us as “freaks” of sorts, so I appreciate the thought you put into this. Thank you.
Institutionalized religions and their leaders are the freaks not the individuals who follow it
In D&D gods come and leave existence based on belief. Some random person could just come up with a god and if they get enough people to belief in it, it comes into existence.
i love doing this and seeing this in writing
This is why Kuo-Toa are always hilarious.
The gods of “Nice Dragons Finish Last” are an interesting take on gods. In their world deities are created with a large enough amount of thought being placed on them. Slowly they become sentient and develop a will and restrictions based on their domains.
it's funny, as someone who grew up culturally mormon (though never spiritually), their concept of becoming gods of our own innumerable universes was the first thing I thought of when I saw this video
I’m surprised you didn’t talk about The Stars My Destination. That entire book is how a single act of abandonment turned a common spacemen into a messiah/godlike figure.
I am already a god
Good for you :D
*God* damn
Forgive me father, for I have sinned.
I see you
Hello my fellow God.
In the web novel "Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint", people are "sponsored" by beings called Constellations. These beings are gods, mythological heroes, and even historical figures. The Constellation's power is linked to how well-known its history is. Those sponsored by Constellations are granted special skills, and the people with personality traits (such as a sense of justice, bloodthirst, the ability to influence people, etc) similar to their constellations, become more powerful. At the story's beginning, our main character doesn't choose any Constellation to sponsor him, but as the story progresses, he makes some deals with them. Later in the story, due to his feats, he becomes a constellation. I won't tell more about it, since I would be entering spoiler territory, but it's pretty interesting that in this story, the Constellations (which are the concept of "god" in the story) mix both the idea of ascension and deification you showed there.
🥺 Yay!🎉 Another ORV reader!! Keep spreading the word about this amazing work of art my friend!!🙏
@@qwikitty The Best Story that no one has ever read
I was waiting for a reference to the god emperor of Dune Leto II because its a really good example of how one becomes a god by merging with a deity and the impacts it can have in its life
Wasn't expecting homestuck to be in one of your videos but im pleasantly surprised.
Oh my gosh, first you talked about the religion I follow, and now you're talking about MISTBORN?!? This is awesome!
The fact that Sanderson is a Mormon makes the inclusion of both the BoM and Mistborn in this video very interesting, though I'm not sure what conclusions we should draw from the fact that they can compared in this aspect.
I mean… his setting is weirdly gnostic. It’s Gods got their start by killing its God and sizing his power.
Plenty of fantasy tabletop roleplaying games and video games have apotheosizing as gods as a concept. There's Talos from the Elder Scrolls, formerly Tiber Septim, who was formerly a human before ascending into a deity and becoming a part of the Nine Divines. Likewise, Runequest and Glorantha have certain figures apotheosizing as deities like Sartar, Arkat, the Seven Mothers, the Emperors of Kralorela and possibly Argrath at the end of the Hero Wars
That talk about "complete control over a domain of your own making" is EXACTLY the appeal I find with writing...or, in that one very rare time, making my own video game. That's exactly how I describe it when all the pieces come together working as I intended: "I feel like a GOD!"
Having gone through a few of your videos now in a big sleep-deprived binge, I like your generally impartial tone throughout.
In my own giant series I have slowly cooking right now, I can say that the ideas from this video are definitely fun to work with.
Also as an LDS Mormon, I can say that yes that statement is in fact a thing.
This is the ABSOLUTE last place I would have expected ******* Homestuck. Also, I dare you to do a video on the tangability of "canon" and "non-canon" within the Homestuck universe. I would be happy to talk and help explain it if you would like.
I think one aspect of being a god that a lot of people overlook is the ability to think up something that has never existed. Not just something that hasn't been created yet within the confines of the laws of this universe that we understand but but creating something that has no previous thing to base it on, true creation from nothing.
We are after all gods of our own fiction
At least we have our universe as we understand it as a starting point for our fiction.@@Antasma1
Funny coincidence: this morning I finished an audio book where the protagonist became a god by accident. It was a surprising ending.
As for me, being a writer is kind of like being a god. You create entire worlds and decide what happens in the world. You create the characters, the lore, the settings. It's quite a heady experience, when you think of it that way.
Generally I can distinguish three levels of godhood:
1) Demi-gods and lesser gods. Are entities, including close to mortals. Who are basically just humans and spirits who may be worshipped as the gods. Even if they really aren't that in literal sense. It is also where most god slaying happen.
2) Classic gods are entities of immense power, who are actually incarnation of some elements of the world. As such worship of them commonly is justified. Though it should be pointed out that despite that most religions show them as humans, they almost always are not that. But only appear as human if even do that. Fun fact, true dragons are in fact a gods, who simply lack skill or will to interact with humans. Not giant lizards. Same is actually true for angels, who are exactly those eldritch horrors, just in service of the God. This category is rarely slain and usually demand involvement of at least demigod.
3) Absolute, so the big "G" God. Those are beings who are base of entire creation. Not just creators as architects. But they removal would literally uncreate the reality. Because they are beyond even celestial comprehension, eldritch to even the eldritch. They rarely interact with people and commonly show sights of being forms of Overmind, sometimes using lesser forms to interact with they creation. In case of Christianity it is the Trinity (and yes, God the Father is actually not the God as a whole). In Judaism God has seven avatars known as Ophanim (Thrones), one of who has additional three Archangel Forms: King of Angels and Voice of God Metatron (the one who sit on Emerald Throne), King of Sheol and Archangel of Destruction Sandelphon (who despite the name is angel of Creation, who control four Living Beasts. As elemental angels who also may be a elements of the God) and Archangel of Wisom Raziel Helel, who play form of Arbiter. Being technically equal to seven regular Archangel and providing also as Christ, creator insight to creation. As he is most humane part of the God. Despite being a "Lamb". In case of Hinduism, all gods are avatars of Braman to a degree. Especially Krishna.
PS: Honorable mention that gods can also be Clarktechian Aliens and TBH form a point it does resemble crazy Shin Megami Tensei style AI nonsense. So who know? Maybe we actually are simulation after all?
omg I just opened this video to randomly watch while getting ready for work, I didn’t expect it to be about Homestuck! ah the memories… I’ll die on the hill that the story of Homestuck, although random, confusing and absurd is actually pretty solid. Thank you for making this video!
Also in mistborn, a character becomes a god after the current host of a divine power dies, leading to the power seeking out a new one.
Appropriate, as Sanderson himself is LDS ("Mormon")
A great manga called "To Your Eternity" is the story of God creating his own replacement. And has a very interesting and unique way of preparing its protagonist to take over the role of God. I highly recommend checking it out.
Also, "Solo Leveling", but I feel like that one is already more well-known and appreciated. Cannot wait for the show to come out.
In Homestuck, arguably some characters are "as omniscient as it is possible to be". There's no such thing as "all knowledge condensed to a point" - it still has to be acquired in some way either for the first time or as a form of recollection (I don't think it's clear which is the more appropriate way to think about it). There are characters that can acquire any bit of knowledge by "navigating" through some "path" in the void.
On a related note, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine examines the problem of becoming a god, as well as many other interesting subjects, as well. Thank you for mentioning TOS and thank you for the video. Keep making stuff up and LLAP!🖖
After playing slay the princess the third video of this series could be "how to create a God" (as a mortal) kinda like the (omega spoiler) narrator does with the shifting mound and the long quiet
@TheTaleFoundry I just wanted to say thank you for how respectful you were when talking out the Book of Mormon and Mormon theology. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or the "Mormon Church," and it is not super common to see references to our beliefs or religion be done with that much care. I believe that everyone's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) should be respected, and it is obvious that you feel that way as well. Thanks again for being awesome and for the wonderful content you make!
You know it's a good day when Tale Foundry posts
I actually fell out of my chair when you started talking about Homestuck. I can't escape
you may have gotten some homestuck bits wrong but you pretty much summed it up as well as anyone else. (edit: also glad to see you have reached one of the best pieces of fiction i have ever encountered, it's far from perfect but that just makes it better.)
What did they get wrong?
@@Fruz they didn't particularly got anything "wrong" (i may have miss-typed there, apologies) there are just many interpretations but 1. homestuck involves more then just those 4 kids. 2. the meteor shower isn't caused by the game it may be predestined to happen. 3. the denizen isn't just "a monster to defeat" it's much more then that. 4. prototyping doesn't need to be something dead or dying but possibly could be preferred to a living prototyping because later in a sburb session the kernalsprites tend to die. 5. a big part of beating sburb is dependent on the universe frog being created but it's not the be all end all of wining the game. 6. the players universe was created by the trolls but that's just one thing he didn't mention. nevertheless apologies on the paragraph i just wanted to shed some light on some things i know but i don't know everything for sure. (edit: and in fairness he was trying to do a short 5 minute summery of something that could realistically take 6 hours to explain in depth.)
One trope ive seen used occasionally is the idea that an omniscient and omnipotent god can 'pass on' their powers to a new soul. One instance this is used is in the cartoon Amphibia - in the final episode, the main character is greeted by an entity who is implied to be omniscient and omnipotent, and wants to give its powers to the main character because it wants to retire. A similar use of this trope can be seen late in the Mistborn trilogy, when the main character absorbs the power of Preservation (though she wasnt technically omniscient at that point, since Ruin would counteract everything she did with an opposite move of equal power).
I loved that show and the finale was more than perfect
This was SUCH a good video. I had already made the comparisons between mormonism and homestuck before, but the tidbit of mormon esoterica was such a delight to hear. Plus one of my favorite fantasy stories(Mistborn(Brandon Sanderson is a mormon by the way)) and one of my formative book series(Deathnote), and even Star Trek is in here. Its wonderful!
Woah!
Didn't expect to see the Book of Mormon to show up in a Tale Foundry Video!
It's kinda trippy to see two of my worlds collide like that!😆
The anime No Game No Life actually plays with both God and gods: there is a a pantheon of gods (god of good, god of elves, etc), but they're just "first among equals", with the True God - Tet - being show to have the power to reshape reality as He sees fit. At one time, Tet was just a "god", but the background is that he won a great war/contest and took over as the True God.
Deification in fiction is some of my favourite type of writing when done well! Thank you so much for this video, immersive as always.
Herberts "Godmakers" was an excellent book covering exactly this topic.
I literally thought "imagine if he mentions homestuck in this video" followed by "nah, this will never happen in our timeline", then he ACTUALLY DID
find god
The 12 trolls made the 4 human kids universe. And I think it was the 23 squid things that made the trolls universe? It's been a while since I got into the lore and theories of homestuck.
I didn’t expect you to talk about homestuck but it was a good surprise
homestuck is always such a surprise no matter where its mentioned.
also the "who created the players og universes" is sort of answered in the comic itself (spoilers btw of act 6 and forwards) caliborn makes the trolls universes first instance (Ancestor trolls), then persists on it after the scratch via Doc Scratch and the code associated to him, then the history relevant trolls make the cancerous universe of the og kids, and then the og kids (or beta kids) scratch their own universe to make the alpha kids of act 6 and finally introduce caliborn/calliope who the alpha kids talk to
additionally John did kind of achieve omniscience via the retcon power thing
0:02 Don't you just wanna go apeshit?
Don’t you just want to stop reality
I can already see Aradia’s smile.
homestuck jumpscare!!
absolutely love the mention tho. I absolutely love the mass amounts of worldbuilding (mainly incomplete and left to fan interpretation) in homestuck.
It wasn’t answered in the video so I’ll explain. The human’s universe was made from another game of sburb in another universe, which happens to be the trolls. That’s how they come into the story. And the trolls’ universe were made by the Cherubs. It seems that all universes were made by another and will all make a new universe through a game similar to sburb (just has a different name)
6:30 I'm so mad, I was literally thinking of this when he mentioned mortals creating universes and becoming Gods LMFAO
Well I was 34 years old when I finally learned the plot of homestuck because someone FINALLY explained it in a way that makes fuckin sense. Thank you Tale Foundry!
YEEEEEESSSS I'VE BEEN WAITING SO LONG FOR THAT HIS DARK MATERIALS REFERENCE
In "Stranger in a strange land" there's a very compelling thought that God by definition is you and i really like it
The pantheon of Eberron, according to the dragons, goes through cycles just like the world.
Every time the world is created, there is a great war between dragons and demons in which some exceptional dragons (and possibly demons) become the legendary inspiration for the gods of humans and most demihumans (Sovereigns). For example, Aureon, the Sovereign of magic, law, and lore, who shed his Shadow to learn the secrets of magic, is said by dragons to be inspired by Ourelonastrix, who learned arcane magic from a demon now called the Shadow in the Flame, and taught it to other dragons, thus creating the tradition of arcane magic that humans were eventually taught. The similarities in names are fairly obvious.
Similarly, in each new cycle, some Sovereigns of the previous cycle join the ranks of the dragon gods (Bahamut, Tiamat, etc) from other settings, and some among the dragon gods became the Progenitor Dragons, Siberyis above, Khyber below, and Eberron in the middle. These are primordial deities, like Uranus and Gaia, who begin the new world in a grand conflict so that the war between dragons and demons can be fought and new Sovereigns can be selected.
There is a human religion based on this idea called the "Church of the Wyrm Ascendant," who worship the Sovereign Host, but also strive to emulate dragons, and believe that they can either reincarnate as dragons or pass into an afterlife created by one of the Sovereigns or dragon gods (unlike other D&D settings, any afterlife beyond a Purgatory-like realm that swallows your soul is more of a belief, as once you pass through Eberron's Purgatory, you cannot be resurrected, so they have no witnesses to any possible afterlives that may exist).
Thank you for being so respectful when discussing the church's theology
In the D&D 5e actual play series, Critical Role, the goddess of Death, the Matron of Ravens, was once a mortal woman, a scientist, who managed to somehow replace the previous god of Death, but upon doing so, she erased the method she used to do so from history because the cost was far too great. (She is heavily based on the Raven Queen from base D&D, who had a similar ascension, but is set apart by being the only god in the Critical Role world, Exandria, to ever do so)
A rather straight example of replacing a capital G god. In the animanga "Mirai Nikki", the core issue is that capital G god got depressed being so much more than anyone else and sets up a death game to select its replacement. Once the death game concludes a new nearly-identical universe is created via the ascendance of the new capital G god. The previous capital G god gets to stop existing (which is what they want to happen in this case).
There was no chosen hero in Mistborn, it was always a custom made trap made by the god of ruin :o
You already had won my heart but you mentioning Baldur's Gate 3 made it melt even more ❤
Never in my life would i expect to see Homestuck on this channel.
He has such a nice voice.
as a member of the LDS church, It is both disorienting and exhilarating to hear someone mention our faith on UA-cam ina respectful manner. Thank you, I do appreciate it.
Ya thank you
Small Gods is my absolute favourite book, every single time I read it I learn something new.
funny thing about this is that my father had (I don't know if it's still running) a religion dedicated to his way of life, and it wasn't started by him.
I'm sorry, what?
@rmb6037 you know, that was my response too. The person who started it was my uncle on my mom's side. When I heard about it, he said that the only time he had heard about it was when there were like 80 members. He told me about it 6 years ago and said he heard about it 7 years prior. If it's still around, it'd be around 15 years old.
Watching you talk about Homestuck is the most surreal thing for me, because nobody really does anymore. So that short moment has made me very happy, and also Seer of Heart, I love that.
I know in Kate Daniels there's a couple paths. For one if you can convince enough people to believe you are a god you become one, the side effect of this is that you no longer have free will and your actions and beliefs are dependent on your believer's perceptions of you. Sufficiently Powerful Magic Users can also essentially consume smaller Gods to gain their powers (although they remain mortal). Because technically it's possible for gods with only a small congregation to be weaker than the most powerful magic users. The god remains a separate entity, but it's still trapped in the body of the Magic User and their powers aren't always theirs to control. There's also a whole set of other consequences for the Magic User themselves.
Big brain time: Make a book or game. You become the “god” of the universe that book or game takes place in, especially if you insert yourself into the book.
Fr, I've written a ton of unrelated story concepts, the idea is that each of them will have tiny easter eggs connecting them until my final written work involves the characters having to confront me, their god. I'm trying to figure out just how far back the fourth wall goes lol
or what about a movie or a show?
man i just can't get enough of that intro!
Another take is one most memorable to me in A Practical Guide to Evil. (this story is definitely not the first to do so, but it stood out among them)
In the volumes, you become more aware that besides the everpresent Choirs of angels (the Above) modeled after Hebrew classifications, and the infinite hells, (the Below) are also formerly mortal gods.
These gods are not created through faith or through election -although borrowing power from an otherworldly source certainly helps- but in 2 other ways.
A god can be forged through sheer power, amassed through any multitude of ways.
One such are the Sve Noc, twin godesses of the Night, who by taking part in ritual slaughter, compressed the power of the Drow (known as "Night") for millenia. They eventually devoured the power of the Queen of Winter, a Fae Goddess, and used the sum of Night and Winter to create a new Godhood.
This is the most common form that you hear of in PGtE, but not the only.
The other main form is through symbolic and metaphysical significance. This story uses such principles heavily, so explaining too much nuance is a bit beyond the effort im willing to give. (go read it for more depth)
A great example is the creation of the Court of Twilight, and its King of the same name. Sourcing their power from the Queen of Winter, a hunt of Fae served her as a vanguard. When Winter was devoured by Night, this now became their source of power.
With promise of Seven Crowns and One (a pattern of sacrifice in history repeated so often that it gained metaphysical significance) they were granted the ability to rule themselves, thus creating a new, unique, Fae Court.
Their power, despite coming from the remains of Winter and Night, its comsumer, is not beholden to either. It is shaped by their history and experiences, thus carrying enough symbolic meaning to create a throne of godhood in its own right.
TL;DR In some stories, gods also come from a well of power given shape, or from symbolic significance in the world itself being *worthy* of such power.
One of my favorite ideas on how one can become a god is from the Goat Valley Campgrounds series.
The premise is that there are creatures born from the collective psyche of mankind. Darkness that devours you, a spiderwoman in a isolated forest cottage, a man who can convince anyone to betray you, and.....Santa Clause among others. Most are nameless and relatively weak, but pretty much every creature from folklore is present, at least lore wise, in the universe. The strongest of these creatures, such as Santa Clause, are...yeah gods.
The central story revolves around the MC trying to navigate running her campground with doubles as a sanctuary and prison for many such creatures.
At one point, a friend is kidnapped by one such creature, a house on the side of a lonely dark road with a monster inside (the house and creature are one entity and can move around and vanish). When she tracks it down and enters to save her friend, the monster, a gutted deer hanging from the ceiling basically, starts tormenting her and telling her it's going to kill both of them unless they satisfy it in some way. During the whole exchange, it keeps repeating its demands to "Love me. Fear me. Worship me."
As its demanding grows more incessant, she realizes what the nature of all these creatures are. They're born from the collective thoughts of mankind....and that's all they are. Their existence, their powers and strength, are entirely dependant on humanity's thoughts on them. The Monster in the Darkness....what more common fear is there? Santa Clause, perhaps the single most universally agreed on and beloved figure across the world. The pagan gods and creatures of old, the Olympians....worshipped.
Each of those acts solidifies and reinforces the creatures' existence....and she realizes the house monster is dying...because no one loves or worships it...and the few people that knew of it, well, two of them, her and her friend, both willing stepped inside knowing it was a monster and overcame their fear of it to save someone, taking away its one source of existence....and she feels pity for the dying thing, and loses the last shred of fear she had for it and it stops existing (though it does try and almost succeeds in killing her and her friend as it's dying).
Spoiler:
The series actually ends with her becoming one of these creatures, due to the love, fear, and worship of the people online who were reading her posts (the reader included) about about everything she's been doing.