As an L1 ASE Master Technician, I really appreciate the depth that this video went. People don't appreciate how advanced this can get in this day and age, you helped me track down my issue. Currently diagnosing this problem on a 2018 Honda Fit that I just bought. Pretty severe rich condition just like this. All my sensor data looked fine, did not see issues on the intake side. Had a good reading from the MAF but cleaned it anyway with no change. Powers and grounds were good, AF sensor and secondary O2 sensors were both reacting and not stuck. I was on the fence about getting a known good AF sensor and I'm glad I didn't. Watched this whole video and found that my injectors look like 2018 honda civic injectors. There's a "B" marked on them and the Fit injectors appear to have an "A", at least that's what my search on ebay has concluded. Not sure why anyone would have changed these but also found evidence that the harness clips were removed and the bolts holding the rail were definitely R&I'ed.
I just had a Honda fit in the bay last month running very rich as well. Luckily another one came for a LOF so I quickly grabbed some known good data to compare fuel pressure and other sensors. I disabled fuel to drop rail pressure and then released pressure just to make sure the rail pressure would display zero psi. My HC was slightly higher out the tail pipe. Watching the injectors on the scope it seemed like the pintle closing hump was late. I called injectors and Honda had them on the shelf. Sold in a 4 pack. My trims returned to -5% TFT after replacing injectors.
Just when I think I'm getting decent at doing diags I'll watch channels like this be humbled faster than injector "on time". I am convinced, I will never in my life be even half as good as this man. Mr Bernie C. Thompson 🙏🏼 the #legend
Bernie's back?!!!!? I didn't think he did videos anymore, I'm subscribed and I can't remember when a video popped up, I've watched this guy all day, there has been some of the craziest diags I've ever seen, and Bernie never misses on them. Hey Bernie, how the hell are you doing? 👍😁
Bernie is keeping me up on a school night! Once again the masters at work. I'll watch the latter half tomorrow. The diag master tech is back. Can only dream to have half the knowledge of Bernie
Bernie you are great I have learn plenty from you, may the Creator guide with long life so that you will always impact the world with great diagnostics videos 🙏🙏
I had the same vehicle, with the exact problem in my shop a month ago, everything was checking out good. I was convinced the injectors were the problem, but after the car being at 3 other shops that replaced a bunch of parts. I didn't want to waste anymore of the customers money. So I sent them out to be tested. 1 passed 1 was restricted and the other 2 were flowing to much. I lost my ass on that car because I didn't bill for all of my time, but I learned a lot. Great video
I understand following all the data, but once you verified that the fuel pressure was where it should be.. the MAF and Barro are where they should be.. Your tail pipe reading matched the computer.. and your "known good car" showed that the 'on time was in the ball park. Then there's only one place left that can add fuel-- which is the injectors. At first I was thinking it could be a leaking injector, and was just a fluke thing that it wasn't causing misfires. But either way, it had to be an injector issue. My point is, sometimes we have to know when to stop testing data and actually get to wrenching something.. finding that balance. Excellent video. I like all your little tips from being burned in the past etc. Those are super helpful. Cheers.
Amazing video!! The in depth data and explanation of it is just great. Really like the video and information. Keep the diagnostic videos coming great work.
Muchísimas gracias don berny por todos sus vídeos y toda la información que nos A proporcionado durante muchos años . Dios que continúe bendiciéndoles y muy contentos de verle de nueva cuenta
God bless you always sir Bernie ,,and may God gave you always a good health so that you can make more videos to made us techs gain more and more diagnostic knowledge😊😊😊😊
happy to see a video again! I was worried about the master! Bernie your at a your own level when it cones to diagnostics as good as guys like danner and ivan pine hollow are your in your own league sir!
The reason for him being heads and shoulders above the rest is that he has ZERO trust for the scan tool DTCs as a diagnostic aid. In other words, he doesn't trust the ECM/Control Module. That's why he always emphasises gathering raw data.
@@abdul-kabiralegbe5660 Coming out of the 'pandemic' I think Bernie's data driven approach to diagnostics should be interdisciplinarity applied. People are still stuck on "consensus science", which would be like asking everyone in the shop their opinion and THEN firing the parts cannon based off the common best guess. Good luck - ya right.
I once had a p0172 in my 2018 Chevy Cruze. It was intermittent. Threw the parts cannon at it. New MAF, MAP, upstream 02 sensor. Still there. Ended up being the tricky way the air filter fits in the airbox the whole time. Never even considered that, even though it started right after I changed the engine air filter.
another great vid from the master. just reinforces that you need the right equipment but also have to know what you're looking at. Known-good data is critical. still not sure I'd have thought to change the injectors though, that's where experience comes in.
This is great. I'm wondering how one would even present this to a customer for approval. Lots of shops and techs don't charge appropriately for this type of work
Well this is an excellent case of no communication, someone alone the line forgot to inform the techs that the injectors have been changed, since it’s not a 30 minute job to do on this engine I suspect. I think sometimes the customer thinks it will be cheaper to not tell the whole story after the parts cannon has been fired….
Hey Bernie, I have a 2018 Honda. Accord sport 1.5 Turbo I changed the injectors out. Change the fuel pump out. Change the map center out. Change the spark plugs out. Change the coils out and after all, said and done. I'm getting a code that's saying it's too rich. Could it be my upper? 02 sensor
Could an inaccurate fuel pressure sensor have been a fault? If the sensor reads lower than actual.. the pcm would be happy with the pressure, as it sees what it's expecting, yet its fuel calculation ends up injecting too much fuel because in reality the fuel pressure was too high. That's where I saw this going.
linear fuel trims must be positive or negative throughout the rev range or it doesn't matter and we can have positive at low revs and negative at high revs?
Excellent video! Thank you for your teaching. One question, I may have misunderstood this part of it, but why did you stop looking for the alcohol content in the fuel when you didn't see that PID on the scan tool? Does the PID missing from the scan tool mean that could not be a problem with that vehicle? Thanks again for your excellent training
Honda scan tool has a section for running a fuel injector air/fuel ratio test it check balance and fuel delivery of each injector and will pick up those faults. That is the very first thing you do with Honda on rich or lean codes with wacked out fuel trims.
So the owner changed the injectors, has an error code, sends the car from shop to shop, and does not tell anyone the injectors were changed from stock to racing? Note to self. If a a car has racing stripes on it, assume the owner modified something.
Im sure the injectors were in need of replacement but the p0172 is set because of excessive fuel in the crankcase, simple pull of the dipstick would have shown oil level was overfull, smell the oil, fuel saturated. very common on hondas direct injection
53:46 A little tech tip, any time you are disconnecting a battery and draining surcharge from the positive wire to the negative wire like that, you want to make sure you don't have an auxiliary battery or any kind of second battery in your system. These are common on luxury cars, cars with start-stop systems, or diesel pickup trucks. The consequence of connecting the 10 ohm resistor with another battery still connected is you would melt the resistor.
Great video Half my diag is reverse engineering customers ebay mods. Last month I had a 2015 Impreza with an acceleration concern. Customer went to multiple shops and had plug, coils, engine cleaners done. Last shop said it was the phasers and chains. Two test drives and twenty minutes studying PIDS told me I had a VE issue. Two hours later I found a “Turbonator” glued in the intake pipe going to the TB. These kids and there ebay mods are killing me
As someone who spent close to $5,000 on the escan elite, the escope, and the pressure pro kit their support is terrible. If you loose the OBD to Bluetooth adapter they will not help you. You have to buy everything all over. Camera broke after less than a year of light use. I love them but sheesh they don’t offer much for support and Jeff laughed over the phone because he said I made a $1,800 mistake losing an adapter that should be replaceable.
WHY WAS THIS SUCH A DIFFICULT DIAGNOSTICS FOR BERNIE THOMPSON AND ONLY A HONDA , CAR TECHNOLOGY IS EVOLVING SO FAST IN TODAY'S TIME EVEN THE MASTERS CAN BE CHALLENGED .
Imagine how long it took to set up the oscope to test 4 powers, 3 grounds, and a current clamp on the computer.😮 anyway im billing 16 hours at 150usd per/hr. 2400 dollars..the engine was saved from self destructing, which would have cost 6000 bucks
hi sir ,yes i call you sir you are a king king bernie god bless u sir wish u health happines and lots of love for 2024 greetings from sunny south africa
I know in special function for ECM there is a A/F cylinder test. Per injector DTC troubleshooting it states to preform test three times and compare readings of pass fail and if duplicated it recommends all injectors to be replacement. I have used this test to preform injector checks when having a P0172 or misfire test. I do not or shops I help in testing do not have five gas analyzer. I have and wanted to purchase one but before making that call on expense would like to see the Honda A/F cylinder test results to five gas. Would like to see if a logic takes over or we get true valves out exhaust. Because I wounder if like in your case it shows Lambda and no stuck rear O2 reading, how it is making the logical choice to keep injector on for the times it does?
Why would someone install high-flow injectors on a HONDA FIT 🤣🤣🤣 This one would be a good candidate to ask the customer about the history of the vehicle... "when did the problem start?" 😉
I had a 2018 fit with the same problem last week. I wasnt as thorough as Bernie, however my snap on zeus has an test for the injectors. The test failed "rich injectors" I was not confident enough with my diagnosis to replace the injectors, so I suggested the owner to try the dealer for a second opinion. A couple days later the owner called and said they reprogrammed the computer and that it was fixed.
No one can convince me to watch that long except that great man
Thank you sir
Those racing stripes on the Hood should have been an indication that somebody was going to fiddle around with the motor.
Glad to see the master is back in action. The amount i learnt in one hour thanks to Bernie is just mind blowing. Thanks so much.
Honestly always great information
Good video link
As an L1 ASE Master Technician, I really appreciate the depth that this video went. People don't appreciate how advanced this can get in this day and age, you helped me track down my issue.
Currently diagnosing this problem on a 2018 Honda Fit that I just bought. Pretty severe rich condition just like this. All my sensor data looked fine, did not see issues on the intake side. Had a good reading from the MAF but cleaned it anyway with no change. Powers and grounds were good, AF sensor and secondary O2 sensors were both reacting and not stuck. I was on the fence about getting a known good AF sensor and I'm glad I didn't. Watched this whole video and found that my injectors look like 2018 honda civic injectors. There's a "B" marked on them and the Fit injectors appear to have an "A", at least that's what my search on ebay has concluded. Not sure why anyone would have changed these but also found evidence that the harness clips were removed and the bolts holding the rail were definitely R&I'ed.
Hello, good evening, I have the same problem. Could you help me provide which are the correct injectors please? Thank you.
L15B or L15A GDA Honda engines just can not avoid injector issues - all maxed out LTFT and STFT, either ultrasonic cleaning or replacment.
I just had a Honda fit in the bay last month running very rich as well. Luckily another one came for a LOF so I quickly grabbed some known good data to compare fuel pressure and other sensors. I disabled fuel to drop rail pressure and then released pressure just to make sure the rail pressure would display zero psi.
My HC was slightly higher out the tail pipe.
Watching the injectors on the scope it seemed like the pintle closing hump was late.
I called injectors and Honda had them on the shelf. Sold in a 4 pack.
My trims returned to -5% TFT after replacing injectors.
Just got to the after capture at 1:11:42 check out that pintle close hump compare to what we had before at 1:08:16
Good catch on that in his video.
Could anyone explain to me how computer controls with wrong injectors as he said!?
Check the valve clearance as well for finer fuel trim control.
Always a great day when Bernie posts up another awesome video!!
Just when I think I'm getting decent at doing diags I'll watch channels like this be humbled faster than injector "on time". I am convinced, I will never in my life be even half as good as this man. Mr Bernie C. Thompson 🙏🏼 the #legend
Bernie's back?!!!!? I didn't think he did videos anymore, I'm subscribed and I can't remember when a video popped up, I've watched this guy all day, there has been some of the craziest diags I've ever seen, and Bernie never misses on them.
Hey Bernie, how the hell are you doing? 👍😁
Only channel worth watching for hours on end simply due to the wisdom and knowledge being dished out left and right
Welcome back Bernie the man with the auto repair plan
Glad you’re back Bernie. It’s been too long. Keep kicking ass good sir!
Bernie is keeping me up on a school night! Once again the masters at work. I'll watch the latter half tomorrow.
The diag master tech is back. Can only dream to have half the knowledge of Bernie
Bernie you are great I have learn plenty from you, may the Creator guide with long life so that you will always impact the world with great diagnostics videos 🙏🙏
I had the same vehicle, with the exact problem in my shop a month ago, everything was checking out good. I was convinced the injectors were the problem, but after the car being at 3 other shops that replaced a bunch of parts. I didn't want to waste anymore of the customers money. So I sent them out to be tested. 1 passed 1 was restricted and the other 2 were flowing to much. I lost my ass on that car because I didn't bill for all of my time, but I learned a lot.
Great video
I understand following all the data, but once you verified that the fuel pressure was where it should be.. the MAF and Barro are where they should be.. Your tail pipe reading matched the computer.. and your "known good car" showed that the 'on time was in the ball park. Then there's only one place left that can add fuel-- which is the injectors. At first I was thinking it could be a leaking injector, and was just a fluke thing that it wasn't causing misfires. But either way, it had to be an injector issue. My point is, sometimes we have to know when to stop testing data and actually get to wrenching something.. finding that balance. Excellent video. I like all your little tips from being burned in the past etc. Those are super helpful. Cheers.
The master is back! YES!
I have been waiting for another video. This made my day. TY ATS
Great to see you Sir, really appreciate your work😍
Looking forward to this video, got the coffee on. The master returns 👍
Amazing video!! The in depth data and explanation of it is just great. Really like the video and information. Keep the diagnostic videos coming great work.
Man is a Legend. Nice to come back. It would be nice to post videos more often. 🔝😊
to convert kpa to p.s.i. multiply kpa by .145 - to convert in.Hg to p.s.i. divide by 2. great analysis!
Muchísimas gracias don berny por todos sus vídeos y toda la información que nos
A proporcionado durante muchos años .
Dios que continúe bendiciéndoles y muy contentos de verle de nueva cuenta
God bless you always sir Bernie ,,and may God gave you always a good health so that you can make more videos to made us techs gain more and more diagnostic knowledge😊😊😊😊
Mr. Bernier thanks for another master class, It was an interesting cause of study.
Great to see a new video after a long break 👍
happy to see a video again! I was worried about the master! Bernie your at a your own level when it cones to diagnostics as good as guys like danner and ivan pine hollow are your in your own league sir!
The reason for him being heads and shoulders above the rest is that he has ZERO trust for the scan tool DTCs as a diagnostic aid. In other words, he doesn't trust the ECM/Control Module. That's why he always emphasises gathering raw data.
@@abdul-kabiralegbe5660 Coming out of the 'pandemic' I think Bernie's data driven approach to diagnostics should be interdisciplinarity applied. People are still stuck on "consensus science", which would be like asking everyone in the shop their opinion and THEN firing the parts cannon based off the common best guess. Good luck - ya right.
My take-away is always ask if any modification has been done to the vehicle that might cause the existing condition....
The racing stripes on a Honda fit was a red flag lol
I once had a p0172 in my 2018 Chevy Cruze. It was intermittent. Threw the parts cannon at it. New MAF, MAP, upstream 02 sensor. Still there. Ended up being the tricky way the air filter fits in the airbox the whole time. Never even considered that, even though it started right after I changed the engine air filter.
Thanks for the info
I miss you Bernie thanks for all your great videos I bought your 4 channel scope and your tablet very good power full scan tool
Thank you. You are a blessing to all of us .
sometimes you do need another known good vehicle of the same model to get data and compare..thank you Bernie awesome.
Far beyond the scope of most diagnostic techs
Never seen anyone diagnostics cars like this guy the best one seen in my life
another great vid from the master. just reinforces that you need the right equipment but also have to know what you're looking at. Known-good data is critical.
still not sure I'd have thought to change the injectors though, that's where experience comes in.
Thank you for all the amazing information Bernie! ❤
THE BOSS IS BACK 🎉🎉
Maaan this is crazy. A whole nother level with Bernie
i have so been waiting for you to release another vid Great as Always Thanks for Sharing
Glad to see you back in action!
Hope to see Bernie do a video on HV/EV issues
MOTHER FREAKIN MANS BACK!!!!😂😂😂😂
He hasn’t left. I visited their facility and he was there. Not sure why they don’t post more often
@@elias8654they diagnose like this every day?
Curious, if no other shops can fix, does ats get paid more to diag, certain of the answer, but curious how much u charge.
I'd love to know the answer to this
Outstanding, Bernie
This is great. I'm wondering how one would even present this to a customer for approval. Lots of shops and techs don't charge appropriately for this type of work
Hello, good evening, I have the same problem. Could you help me provide which are the correct injectors please? Thank you.
I have the same issue with my FIT in the shop. I have over 5000ppm HC when i check the readings in the oil cap. So the oil is contaminanted with fuel?
Well this is an excellent case of no communication, someone alone the line forgot to inform the techs that the injectors have been changed, since it’s not a 30 minute job to do on this engine I suspect. I think sometimes the customer thinks it will be cheaper to not tell the whole story after the parts cannon has been fired….
You're 💯 correct. Customers need to be educated
Mr ver y im so glad that you’re doing great.
Thank you for coming back master .
I appreciate everything that you do for us .
God bless you!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience
IT'S NICE TO SEE SOMEONE MAKE A VIDEO, LONGER THAN 20 MINUTES, BERNIE, STILL THE KING!
Hey Bernie, I have a 2018 Honda. Accord sport 1.5 Turbo I changed the injectors out. Change the fuel pump out. Change the map center out. Change the spark plugs out. Change the coils out and after all, said and done. I'm getting a code that's saying it's too rich. Could it be my upper? 02 sensor
Thank you mister berny What a great example of hard working men .
Glad you are back master .
Could an inaccurate fuel pressure sensor have been a fault? If the sensor reads lower than actual.. the pcm would be happy with the pressure, as it sees what it's expecting, yet its fuel calculation ends up injecting too much fuel because in reality the fuel pressure was too high. That's where I saw this going.
Always love your videos
I had a 17 in the shop w gdi with a lean code turns out some of these had a recall on the injectors
Bernie, always a pleasure
linear fuel trims must be positive or negative throughout the rev range or it doesn't matter and we can have positive at low revs and negative at high revs?
Excellent video! Thank you for your teaching. One question, I may have misunderstood this part of it, but why did you stop looking for the alcohol content in the fuel when you didn't see that PID on the scan tool? Does the PID missing from the scan tool mean that could not be a problem with that vehicle? Thanks again for your excellent training
Honda scan tool has a section for running a fuel injector air/fuel ratio test it check balance and fuel delivery of each injector and will pick up those faults. That is the very first thing you do with Honda on rich or lean codes with wacked out fuel trims.
WHO put those injectors in ? WHY were they changed ? WHAT brand were they ? Was it a case of getting the wrong or cheap parts ? Someone has to know .
does unplugging the high pressure regulator default the system to max pressure?
Wow such a crazy case study
Awesome diagnostic work
Purple smoke out my ears again...
Thank you for the insite...
YELLOW HONDA WITH RACING STRIPES!
Great video! Thank you so much for sharing your incredible knowledge.
So the owner changed the injectors, has an error code, sends the car from shop to shop,
and does not tell anyone the injectors were changed from stock to racing?
Note to self.
If a a car has racing stripes on it, assume the owner modified something.
Was thinking the same thing.
The owner probably could have saved himself a bunch of money is he had mentioned that the injectors were changed.
Im sure the injectors were in need of replacement but the p0172 is set because of excessive fuel in the crankcase, simple pull of the dipstick would have shown oil level was overfull, smell the oil, fuel saturated. very common on hondas direct injection
53:46 A little tech tip, any time you are disconnecting a battery and draining surcharge from the positive wire to the negative wire like that, you want to make sure you don't have an auxiliary battery or any kind of second battery in your system. These are common on luxury cars, cars with start-stop systems, or diesel pickup trucks. The consequence of connecting the 10 ohm resistor with another battery still connected is you would melt the resistor.
Thanks for sharing uncle Bernie,muito obrigado professor!
The GOAT is back
Bernie's the best !
amazin' , mind blown again - Thank You Mr . BT . You are a national treasure sir .
Ok bernie no more hiatus from youtube please!!!
@14:30 wouldnt you want to disable the pcv vacuum as your probe is getting outside air pulled past it skewing the results.
Great video
Half my diag is reverse engineering customers ebay mods.
Last month I had a 2015 Impreza with an acceleration concern. Customer went to multiple shops and had plug, coils, engine cleaners done. Last shop said it was the phasers and chains.
Two test drives and twenty minutes studying PIDS told me I had a VE issue.
Two hours later I found a “Turbonator” glued in the intake pipe going to the TB.
These kids and there ebay mods are killing me
Bueno trabajo mister Thomson
As someone who spent close to $5,000 on the escan elite, the escope, and the pressure pro kit their support is terrible. If you loose the OBD to Bluetooth adapter they will not help you. You have to buy everything all over.
Camera broke after less than a year of light use.
I love them but sheesh they don’t offer much for support and Jeff laughed over the phone because he said I made a $1,800 mistake losing an adapter that should be replaceable.
Damn, I wanted to buy.
Art of diagnostic!
WHY WAS THIS SUCH A DIFFICULT DIAGNOSTICS FOR BERNIE THOMPSON AND ONLY A HONDA , CAR TECHNOLOGY IS EVOLVING SO FAST IN TODAY'S TIME EVEN THE MASTERS CAN BE CHALLENGED .
It's crazy how stoked I was to see this video in my notifications !!!!!! Hahahah😅
Very cool!!! How did you charge for something like this though? I'm curious as to what billed hours you would charge for this.
Probably took him a full day
Charger by the hour and only TOOKEN bout couple hours.
Imagine how long it took to set up the oscope to test 4 powers, 3 grounds, and a current clamp on the computer.😮 anyway im billing 16 hours at 150usd per/hr. 2400 dollars..the engine was saved from self destructing, which would have cost 6000 bucks
Great diag. Thank you 🎉
You can't figure it out and get the correct diagnosis,
Get it to Bernie!! Damn it, he'll get it right!!
Because race car?
Loaded with effects
great stuff!! [the givaway clue might be the racing stripes] lol
Lesson learned from Bernie! Don’t buy a little Honda and turned it into a hot rod. Buy a Camaro instead! Chevy thunder!
hi sir ,yes i call you sir you are a king king bernie god bless u sir wish u health happines and lots of love for 2024 greetings from sunny south africa
Hot rod bullshit strikes again! Thanks for another great video!
I know in special function for ECM there is a A/F cylinder test. Per injector DTC troubleshooting it states to preform test three times and compare readings of pass fail and if duplicated it recommends all injectors to be replacement. I have used this test to preform injector checks when having a P0172 or misfire test. I do not or shops I help in testing do not have five gas analyzer. I have and wanted to purchase one but before making that call on expense would like to see the Honda A/F cylinder test results to five gas. Would like to see if a logic takes over or we get true valves out exhaust. Because I wounder if like in your case it shows Lambda and no stuck rear O2 reading, how it is making the logical choice to keep injector on for the times it does?
Lately most of my rich conditions are caused by octane rating for flex fuel vehicles
Great Master!
Thanks Mr Bernie,its been a while waiting for some troubleshooting from yu Sir. Thanks a lot
Racing stripes should throw up modification warning 🤣
Why would someone install high-flow injectors on a HONDA FIT 🤣🤣🤣
This one would be a good candidate to ask the customer about the history of the vehicle... "when did the problem start?" 😉
I had a 2018 fit with the same problem last week. I wasnt as thorough as Bernie, however my snap on zeus has an test for the injectors. The test failed "rich injectors"
I was not confident enough with my diagnosis to replace the injectors, so I suggested the owner to try the dealer for a second opinion.
A couple days later the owner called and said they reprogrammed the computer and that it was fixed.
Awesome
THANKS
How much more does someone think they will get just dumping more fuel in and no other changes out of that engine. Its insane and very ignorant..
BRAVO
Great video process of elimination by reading
Data and finding duty cycle on to long injectors 👃👍