Honda does build some of the best engines going back decades. I bought a 2006 Odyssey with 150K miles 7 years ago. I started getting random misfire codes. Changed spark plugs and coils, problem continued. Took it to the dealership as I figured they'd find the issue with Honda specific computers and Honda trained and certified techs. First time I took it in they said the misfire is so minimal it's barely registering on their computers. They erased the code and sent me on my way. A few months later the same codes popped up again. I took it back. They recommended I do a valve adjustment and that this "should" correct the issue. After doing some research I confirmed these J series V6's do require it after 100-150k miles. At this point the van has somewhere around 180k miles so I figured what the heck. If it will correct the issue and it needs it anyway then it's worth the $800 they quoted me. Another few months go by and the codes come back! Now I'm getting agitated. I go back a 3rd time and they give me the same story, it's minimal and not affecting the engine. Now I take to the forums and start doing some more digging. Turns out Honda's fuel saving feature, VCM, was the culprit. After learning of all the problems this system caused in multiple models (Pilot, Ridgeline, Accord) I decided to take matters into my own hands. I followed the many recommendations of installing a VCM Muzzler. Holy cow! This little device that cost less than $200 fixed the issue! The van is now well over 200k miles and running like a champ. I called the dealership and asked them why no one thought of suggesting VCM was the issue. I told them I found service bulletins from Honda about the issues VCM causes and even a class action lawsuit to have piston rings replaced! But unfortunately for me that covered only certain models starting in 2008. Moral of the story, Honda along with many other manufacturers build really good engines but screw them up with all these fuel economy systems that eventually end up causing extreme damage which will cost way more to fix than any "savings" you may have gotten. Of course by the time the problems arise you are probably out of warranty. I consider myself lucky that someone other than Honda figured out a simple and economical solution. Knowledge is power. If you plan on keeping your vehicles long term, educate yourselves! (Sorry for the long post, it's just aggravating to see another round of problems cropping up on otherwise really good engines, all in the name of trying to get 1-2 mpg savings, which the everyday consumer doesn't really see or benefit from anyway!)
thanks for the educational informative post! I'm well aware of this issue, from reading on the Ody forum, for Odyssey's. Classic that a dealer wouldn't mention that since they either dn't know, or they dn't want to make Honda look defective in design, which it absolutely was for many years re the VCM system, presumably still is. Not only Honda, all makers with cyl deactivation, cause engine issues and failures, GM being the most famous infamous one
Sometimes owners abuse their cars and cause issues, not necessarily the design of the car. I'm not saying you did, but a past owner might not have been changing the oil regularly. Cars need maintenance and some people have no clue what that means.
I just got a V6 accord and am looking to get the vcm tuner but unfortunately they keep selling out the day the new batch is released… hopefully I’ll have better luck next time.
@@18_rabbit Thanks for reading my extremely long post! I agree. Honda has built their reputation on durable and reliable vehicles. But unfortunately everyone has to abide by government regulations and these are the results. By the time these systems start causing serious issues, the vehicle is out of warranty and most people will just buy a new or gently used one instead dealing with it.
@@methanial73 "Sometimes" is an understatement. I honestly believe 95% of people driving a vehicle have no clue it requires regular maintenance. I have a friend that leased a new Audi SUV last year. She has no clue about cars. She asked me the other day if I think she should get an oil change because she now has 10K miles on it. She said no one at the dealership told her about maintenance. I'm like yeah of course they didn't. 1. It's a lease so you're trading it in, in about 3 yrs so if it breaks later it's someone else's problem and 2. If it breaks while you have it they hope you bring it to them to fix it or put you in another car! I can't stand dealerships. Odyssey's are known to have major transmission failures. I change the fluid on mine every other year regardless of miles. Also recently changed the pressure sensors and checked the solenoids. I changed the filter a few years back. It's shifting smooth and strong. I change the engine oil every 5K miles or 6 months, which ever comes first. Engine runs great. It's old and beat up on the outside but solid mechanically.
I have a 2016 civic ex-t with a 1.5 turbo and have 188k and have had no issues with this. I do have a longer commute to work, so this is probably why my car hasn’t had issues.
We live in Montana, not many short trips, and we had oil dilution issues on a 16 and 18 Crv's with the 1.5 T. Oil was always way over full and smelled very strong of gasoline. Didn't think we had issues until I started checking oil myself. The worst part was the response we had from Honda. Deny, deny, deny. I traded for a 19 Passport with the N/A six cylinder engine.
The good old tried and true J35 V6 hasn’t impressed me until I learned about the oil dilution in their turbo 4’s. I installed an S-VCM and an Idlestopper in a 2019 Acura MDX so 3cyl don’t shut off on the highway and also it doesn’t shut off on a stop sign. Otherwise they’re hearty engines when maintained. 100k timing belt, water pump sparkplugs are about it. Don’t forget the transmission fluid, transfer case, rear diff fluids before 60-80k
They screwed you with a major engine issue then doubled-down and refused to take responsibility. So, your solution is to just give them more of your money? lol
@@MontanaWelldigger at least the J35 V6 has been tried and true and they haven’t tried any of the crazy stuff on it. I would, however run an S-VCM Controller and or an Idlestopper. They’re both about $200 total worth of easy plug and play devices but IMO well worth it as preventative upgrades
Just bought a new '23 Civic sport hatch a few weeks ago and opted for the 2.0L NA engine as I've never trusted the reliability of these tiny turbos. Sounds like I made the right choice
I'm waiting for a Sport Hatch 2.0L with manual transmission to show up at a local dealer. No, I didn't order one. I'm not in a need of a car, but if one shows up, I'll make an offer and see where it goes. It's probably going to be the last chance to get something like that without too much new tech and useless gizmos. I mean, these 2.0 are the last of Honda engines WITHOUT Turbo and WITHOUT Direct Injection. Yes, I'm aware of the fact that even Honda's own website had it INCORRECTLY listed as Direct Injection (they fixed it some months ago), and that many auto websites like CarAndDriver still list the wrong information. The so-called "journalists" these days.
Toyota engineers are actually quite smart and implemented a nice solution to the carbon build up issue with DI engines. Toyota uses two sets of injectors in their dynamic force engines, one direct and the other one behind the valve like a port injection style. The computer actually chooses which particular injector to use depending on several engine load and driving conditions. Also they went the N/A route avoiding any issues with a turbo.
Toyota went the turbo way. Look at the new tundra and tacoma. We will see if the new Corolla goes with a turbo or not in 2025 to compete with the civic
Our Rav4 also has an electric water pump, which reduces liquid flow when the engine is cold! The engine warms up incredibly fast, which would reduce this issue.
@ShadetreeAutomotiveLayton yeah it's the 4-DS injection system, just got a new Camry because of it and the real 8 speed transmission. My last two cars were older Accords which I loved but I noticed the problems with this earth dreams nonsense and couldn't justify paying $30k for a car with a iffy engine.
Thank you explaining why there are issues with the 1.5t and how to minimize or avoid future engine problems. I got the 1.5t with 26k on it, now approaching 56k. I live in California and most of my driving is highway. I haven't experienced any issues yet and have changed the oil every 5k. I hardly ever drive in sport mode pushing the engine hard, and I've had fuel injection service as recommended and using high octane fuel. Great performance thus far. Hopefully it continues as maintenance is done. Once again, thank you for educating me about this engine.
Low tension piston rings are probably also a factor. All manufacturers are struggling with this as rings are the primary source of friction in engines.
That is the whole problem, not enough ring tension for a turbo engine. Low engine temp equals greater piston to wall clearance. Direct injection doesn't "force" fuel past the rings that is compression multiplied by the forced induction of the turbo. Also the amount of fuel supplied by the injectors is no more than what is needed by the engine.
Exactly. This was not a widespread issue until the manufacturers started lessening the tension on the piston rings, in addition to higher fuel pressure GDI & most likely higher cylinder pressure due to the turbocharger (forces more air into the cylinder).
All efficiency has been gotten out of conventional piston engines without sacrificing durability. The government needs to lay off and engineers need to start over-building engines again with reliability in mind.
I own a 2016 CIvic with the 1.5t currently at 110k mi no dilution issues and she runs strong. I routinely change oil at 15%. That being said i also live in Phx and commute 45 min a day, so this info certainly aligns with my scenario.
They need to do dual injection with port injectors and direct injectors like Toyota. I want to buy a new Honda/Acura because I love the efficiency of the 1.5L but I also keep my cars for over 10 years.
Yup Hyundai has these problems because most of their engines are direct injection. They recommend running a system cleaner through one of the vacuum hoses while the engine is running so it can clean the carbon off the valves. If the engine is super dirty man that's a smoke show. But usually runs "better" afterwards
@@SUp3RpooP3r7698 all in the efforts to "reduce" emissions. What a joke, my 2000 Acura TL needs the intake carbon cleaned every 100k or so due to the EGR and PCV system but the valves remain spotless.
@@Darksyne I have a Subaru STi now, used to own a Chevy Cruze, but I'm happy that it has port injection so I don't have to worry about all those direct injection problems. EPA and all these agencies forcing manufacturers to produce these crappy engines are the problem. I never understood the big deal about car engines being so dirty when the airline industry and people that own private jets put more pollution in the air than any of us ever could in multiple lifetimes, oh yeah, and China.....
I have two direct injected cars and at a 5k oil change interval I haven’t had an issue. I even sent a sample to Blackstone at 3k miles from my 2.0 turbo Volkswagen (direct injection) and it came back perfect. I have no reason to believe that my direct injection Honda is any different. Change your oil every 5k miles and it’s not an issue.
I worked at Honda's emission lab. I saw all of the current production engines do this in certain conditions. Direction injection, short trips. Cold weather makes it worse.
Probably the most reliable Honda you could buy today would be the lowest mile K24 Accord/CRV you can find. Although the J35 is still a fantastic engine despite all the modifications to eke out every last mpg possible, e.g., VCM, ditching VTEC etc..
Had the same issues in the first mazda DI platform. We ended up using a different oil solution (generally anything formulated for euro spec engines and/or everything dexos 1 and above.) oh and ventilation of the block with catch cans.
Direct injected turbo engines seem to all suffer from this and the valves getting gunked up (unless it's a dual type injection). This is why I got rid of my 19 Ranger, I'm not waiting 10 years for a lawsuit to reimburse me for an engine that ended up 1-2 quarts overfilled. Catch cans don't prevent the issue either.
catch cans do help prevent carbon "gunked" buildup. Also, using high quality synthetic oil and changes at 5k vs 7.5k or 10k. To prevent the gas in the oil pan, got to get the vehicle up to temp. Cold and short drive cycles will exasperate the issue. Should have taken the Ranger to dealer under warranty and have them address the concern. But, maybe getting rid of it was the right move...
Am thinking about keeping my wife's 2010 Accord V6, as we have only put 30,000 miles on it. No problems, totally reliable, very quick, and gets 20-21 mpg in town driving, easily more than 30 mpg on highway (best was 35 mpg MD to Delaware on flat terrain). Not sure a newer Honda would be any better. I prefer naturally aspirated engines and dislike CVT's.
I would not get rid of that car. Only 30K? Wow. I have 280k on my 2008 CRV and it runs like a top. If you can forgo all the gadgets on newer cars you’ve saved a boatload of $$ in car payments and repairs.
No dilution on mine, after the dealership did the SW update and after i started changing the oil by myself. The dealerships routinely overfilled my Civic when they did the oil change. Yes, you heard me right. I also monitor how much is drained at every change now and so far, no problem at all. Interval of 15 percent of honda minder, full synthetic only with new filter every time.
You also KNOW..( specifically if you have sense enough to use a proper torque socket wrench) that when you change your own oil...The oil drain plug..ISN'T over torqued unlike at some dealerships or especially these idiotic quick lube places who love to use a damn air wrench to torque it.
I'm keeping my 2016 Accord Sport 6mt for a lot longer. 85k, no oil burning or fuel dilution. Get it out on the highway at least once a week and blow out the cobwebs
Just sold my 2017 civic hatch sport. Had 185,000 km on it. 1.5•L turbo. Ran like a dream. Never one problem. Just traded up to the 2023 civic hatch sport touring
Holy S-word!! I have a 2018 Civic and I've yet to hit 50,000 miles!! Do you drive across the USA, ocean to ocean every month or something? That's an insane amount of miles for a 2017 anything. Are you sure you didn't typo and you meant 85,000 and not 185,000? Even 85,000 would be extreme for a 2017.
@@markr.1984 you heard right. Although it’s 185,000 KM not miles. I drove the car from Vancouver Canada to the Florida keys twice in 2017 and 2022. Also 3 times to California, Utah, across Canada and more! Could not ask for a better vehicle
I must say this for me this was one of the best talks ive herd on this problem thank you very much someone that knowd what there talking about cheers. 😊
We have a 2019 CRV 1.5, even with the fix - still has gas oil dilution. It even has it in summer, albeit less. In the Midwest… Honda said the 19 “fixed” it, did not. We change oil less than 5000mi between changes. Mixed lengths drive, some highway longer, some short. Like video said some longer drives to burn off oil helps, minimize remote starts (won’t let it get to operating temp as fast). When possible we also wait a few minutes for engine to get off of minimum temp / cold to start using heat in the winter. Those few things have helped reduce it, but not eliminate it. Also Makes a lot of sense for more regular oil changes. Too bad theirs not a way for the engine to trap it and burn off the gas, even from the oil pan itself. One person down the street who has a 2018 crv with this issue got an engine block heater and drives his in ‘sport’ after a minute or two in cooler temps to get engine warmer quicker. Said is has reduced engine oil consumption, he also changes oil at 3000mi. Having owned several Hondas in the past with zero issues, this will likely be our last Honda. I have a 19 Ridgeline, no issues at all with oil dilution, but a totally different engine.
A guy had the dilution problem he mixed the oil 50-50 percent 0w-20 and 5w-20. He said he drove his vehicle 20,000 miles and no dilution problem . Of course he had regular oil change intervals. With the 1.5 turbo I change at 5,000 mile intervals. And use premium gas. So far no problems.I also do the 50 -50 oil mix I had a dilution problem before mixing the oil. I also use Amsoil synthetic mixed mixed 50 percent 0w-20 and 5w-20. I also get 47.5 miles per gal on a trip from Fuquay Varina NC to Wilmington NC and back.
I have the 2018 . I use high octane gas when I fill up. Have had no trouble at 62 thousand miles. Because of this I change my oil at 5 thousand miles. It’s a 1.5 liter civic with the turbo. Love this car.
Right, I watched a UA-cam video where a guy had dilution, but when he went to 93 octane it went away. He went back to 87 octane and it came back. You are correct in running premium gas. I just got a 2024 CRV and it will get a steady diet of 93 octane.
When this started, China forced Honda to do a full recall on all of their cars to fix this. China is a wide variety of weather conditions so I don’t think it’s weather related since people from the Middle East were reporting oil dilution as well. There was a guy on UA-cam who posted a video last year on his 2022. He had the oil changed in October and by December his oil level was half an inch over full.
@@hondamanvtec2894 I know that. I never said it was related to only summer or winter. Did you even read what I posted? Or did you not listen to the video?
This is by far the BEST summary I have found out here so far. What are your thoughts on the Fuel Injector model/manufacturer change? And have you seen failing fuel injectors? What about fouled spark plugs? We are at our wit's end with a Honda dealership in the greater Houston area and hoping to find an independent mechanic like yours that we can trust. They are refusing to apply any of the Honda Service Bulletin's / software updates to our car because the service manager told us "they don't work.
Yes, we are seeing fuel injector failures quite often as of late. We haven't seen fouled spark plugs but are often times changing earlier than the normal 100k miles when we find issues.
My 2018 Civic Sport had the turbo 1.5 and it had the fuel smell problem around 30,000 miles. I ended up having to change the oil every 2500 miles. I sold it when it was about out of warranty and bought a natural aspirated V6 Lexus.
Great video! Thanks for all the "Look For" information as well as what we can do to help mitigate a huge problem. Also, 5000 miles is an easy number to remember to change the oil and rotate your tires. Thanks for the good information.
Had a 2017 CRV. Exact issues and warning signs you described here. The software update solved nothing. Had multiple oil analysis done to make our case. Battled with Honda and the dealership for months. Even though the dealership recognized our issue their hands were tied. Finally the dealer bought our car back and we bought a RAV4. End of story.
I have a 21 CRV and it does get cold here in Ohio too. Last winter the temperature dropped into the negatives and it snowed. I do not push my car like normal in snowy conditions and the car struggled to reach operating temperature and I drove it 19 miles to work. I hope the software update addresses operating temperature and cabin heat in extreme cases.
In the winter, be sure to get your car running while you finish getting snow off. Don't just crank up and go. Always good to let it idle for a bit in winter weather.
I just bought a 2021 CRV Touring AWD that was a corporate vehicle w/under 16K. Carfax showed the oil was changed quite often. Owned less than 1 month and changed the oil myself with Mobil 1 and OEM Filter. I drive 25 miles one way to work. I also before shut down let it idle a bit to relax the turbo. This is my first Honda.. we'll see how it goes
2019 Accord 1.5T and no issues. I'm guessing the slight difference in tune that the Accord has had minimized the problem. I think the engine's great. It is very fuel efficient but also offers some good get-up and go when wanted.
I also have a 2019 and a week ago it starts to shake when it starts but stabilizes in 4 seconds and now I even smelled gasoline I change the oil every 4K miles and it only has 32k I always use premium gas
Good video with excellent explanation of issues and resolutions for customers. Rare mechanic that is honest and tries to help customers with problematic design issues.
He should apply for a PR position at Honda. Putting all the onus on the customer for a known design flaw. Change the oil twice as often, all cars do this, it’s not that bad, 😂
Finally, a clear and thorough explanation on this subject. I just got a '19 CRV with only 12k miles (in 2024!) and I was getting conflicted info as to which model was affected. Side note....I have a 2005 Saturn Vue with the 3.5 litre Honda engine and transmission that is about to hit 300k miles in the next few weeks. 🤞
Good explanation of the problems. If summarized correctly, is that Honda made an a motor that has issues and the burden (cost / expense) has been shifted to the customer with more frequent oil changes, de-carbon the motor, more service on the motor, etc.). No where did the video talk about Honda compensating their customer for their design / manufacturing issues.
We own a 2016 civic 1.5 turbo. 80 k miles. Change oil every 5k miles. Never had any oil dilution issues. Full synthetic. Just switched to Valvoline Preserve and Protect.
I have a 2017 CRV and have never had that problem... I am a fanatic about maintenance and change my oil every 5000 miles or less, they did put a battery in my car a few years back under warranty and that`s when they did the software update... I have 72,000 miles now and car runs great would like to know Pennzoil product you guys use for the carbon buildup, not sure if I have that problem as I travel back and forth from Florida to Ct and we are doing 80 mph the whole way...
i work at goodyear// and we also use the Valvoline valve cleaner.. but a a former Classic Italian car tech/ restorer, i was not sure about this.... so i brought my friends bmw.. in very well know for carbon build up on the valves. and did a test,, we followed the instructions ..to the letter.... before we did the cleaner.. we took the intake manifold off the car.. took photos of all the valves... put the manifold back on and proceeded to use the Valvoline treatment ..besides killing every living thing around our shop... we went though the process... ,, after the engine cooled down.. 4 hours.. we removed the intake manifold... carbon still there.. manifold back on and every 250 mile we took the manifold back off... we got very fast at this part... but after 1000 miles , we saw no improvement on carbon lessening off the intake valves... none at. all.. i know this is only one test... but that carbon, is cooked onto the valves.. and even walnut shell blasting take time to remove the carbon... and also it is not recommended to use this product in a turbo car.. as a possibility of carbon fowling the turbo charger.. and damaging it,, and also the chance of small flakes of carbon, getting stuck between the piston and rings and the cly. wall,, this would cause premature engine failing do to the lack of the rings sealing to the cly walls.... we only recommend walnut shell blasting on badly carboned up valve.. we also install an oil vapor separator to keep the oil vapor's and other nice goodies, from entering the intake track... but that is just us....no such thing as ' fix the engine in a can ' right?
Never had a problem with my 1.5t. I’ve done all my own oil changes since new, the sump is never overfilled, there’s never any smell or sign of gasoline in the used oil. I drive my car normally and change my oil when the service light comes on. The car runs like new and has never needed anything other than basic maintenance.
@@barrya.6212 2017, never had the software update done either. 7 years old and the only thing she's ever needed was basic maintenance, oil, fluids and filters. Honestly I don't know what y'all are on about. It's never given me even a hint of trouble.
It doesn’t happen to all the engines as people want to make it seem. My civic and mothers crv didn’t have that problem since I change our oil every 5k.
As an owner of a 9th gen si k24. I have zero interest in any new Hondas. They all seem to have odd issues... and I love Hondas. 265k miles. And only had to replace the clutch at 245k and the radiator at 260k. Fluids obviously. But the car is a champ
Thanks for the info Tom! I have a 2020 CR-V and haven't had issues yet. But I live in southern Arizona and typically drive at least 20 minutes to work at the minimum. However, while I was searching for a new vehicle, I did test drive a 2018 CR-V and when I checked the dipstick it wreaked of gasoline. They knew something was up and it almost kept me from buying Honda ever again. Mind you my first car was an 82 Civic CVCC Wagon, then I've owned an '88 and '92 Civic which were gems. Then on to a 2007 Civic which was incredible. Bought my daughter the 2017 Civic and she's had the updates as well as I'm a stickler for getting that oil change every 5,000 miles. The dealer has told me we don't need to do that with the CR-V or the Civic, and I tell them I still want it. Appreciate this breakdown video!
Awesome information! I follow several automotive channels and this is the first time I see one of your videos. Thanks for this awesome explanation! Cheers!
This is probably the best video I've seen on the subject. So much misinformation on why this happens, and it's refreshing to see an unbiased conversation backed by facts. A couple things I'll add: - On the topic of carbon buildup, Honda actually runs comparatively clean compared to most TCDI powertrains. If you do a lot of highway commuting, Honda allows a small amount of fuel to mist the intake area on the piston upstroke. The intake valves also reportedly rotate to ensure every corner gets "washed." An induction service every 30K "might" be an overkill, depending on the type of driving the owner does. - While fuel dilution is a very real issue, the maintenance minder often intervenes before it becomes a problem. In the most extreme driving scenarios, we've seen the MM recommend an oil change as early as 2.6K. That said, some owners still report problems after the software update and increased OCIs. - I can't remember if it was mentioned, but Honda has extended their coverage on the 2016-2018 1.5T CRV/Civic up to 6 years/unlimited miles. It's limited to vehicles in colder climates and addresses the longer concern of premature wear to the camshafts. For most, that warranty period has already expired.
The oil dilution issue has a great deal to do with the temperature of the oil in the oil pan, as the oil approach 200F, any accumulated fuel is evaporated and pull into the intake track through crankcase ventilation system and burned. So, if the oil in the oil pan even reach operating temperature once in a while (maybe as infrequently at once or twice per month), I would think oil dilution wouldn't be a significant issue.
Nice victim blaming. It's their fault for living in cold climates and/or not driving enough. Nothing at all to do with Honda building a crap engine. Lots of other turbo engines out there that don't have this issue...
I was a mechanic in the 60's and 70's in the Yukon , we changed a lot of oil pans and valve covers , when the choke would stick and flood the engine with gas , and had a lot off twisted off oil pump drives as well in 46- degree's , lol.
also the GDI engines use a high pressure fuel pump to inject into the upper cylinders, after the valves, it's over thousand PSI to overcome the high pressures in the cylinders.
Its the emission standards. Toyotas had oil burning in 2010-2014 due to weak piston rings to be able to meet the new emmision standards. All companies are struggling with it.
Last November, I purchased a 2019 CRV LX, 42,000 mi. In excellent condition inside and out. I probably paid more for this LX base model. Than many people would of paid for an EX with all the extra goodies. I did not want that 1.5 Turbo. 8000 miles later I have changed the oil at around 4,000. I have changed the CVT fluid twice already, due to it never being changed before. As far as I know. I wish it got slightly better mileage. Average 26.5. But I couldn’t be happier with this vehicle.
Currently, I have the 2021 CR-V AWD with the 1.5T Earth Dreams with 29,000 miles and no issues so far. I commute 25 minutes to work each way. My vehicle runs great.
Direct injection and boost doesn't always mean best emissions. In theory it should help meet emission targets but there are actually a few downsides to direct injection, one being fuel droplets actually making contact on bore surfaces and being out of suspension. Another being carbon build up on the back of the inlet valves and ports because there is no fuel scrubbing action. Honda isn't the only manufacture with these issues.
I've seen several teardowns of this engine and camera cylinder inspections on this engine. No carbon build-up on intake valves. So rest easy Keep air filter changed every 12months or 10000 miles Change oil every 6 months or 4-5000 miles Service cvt every 30 40000 Use premium fuel. It's a turbo car
From my experience, using ethanol-free gas seems to help with the oil dilution issue, at least for me. I own the 1.5T engine. I have a theory that the ethyl alcohol makes gas a little bit thinner. Also the slightly higher octanes of the ethanol-free gas might help a touch too. I drive a mix of half ethanol gas and half ethanol-free in the summer but all ethanol-free in the winter and change my oil about Christmas, if it's over 3k miles. then again in February at about 3k more miles. Then I go back to 5k intervals in the spring and summer, but more more than 5k. Also, if you have one of these engines, start up and drive away straight away on a cold morning. Don't let it sit and warm up under no load, parked. You engine will warm up far faster under load, thus limiting the oil dilution. So just get in and drive it away within a few seconds.
Strangely enough you make a valid point. Yamaha outboards have a known issue of making oil. (Dilution). These higher HP outboards are used offshore and spend many many hours at idle or low rpm trolling under little to no load. It has been an issue for years and Yamaha says the remedy is to give her the beans. Italian tuneup. Run er like you stole er.
With changing the oil at 5000 miles, my 2017 Honda CR-V runs about 2.5-3% fuel, with viscosity near the lower limit of acceptable (but not lower than allowed). I certainly wouldn’t extend the oil change interval as long as the computer allows.
I’ve done Blackstone UOA tests every other oil change on my 2017 1.5L Civic over past 65k miles. It has not shown oil dilution issues. Drive your car harder and change oil every 5k miles. There is a reason the CRV owners are the ones that talk about this the most. They never drive them hard and keep long oil change intervals.
I have a 2018 crv with the same problem and I live in california, and now you can add an extended warranty for the a/c condenser as well. I decided to sell the car this week due to the resale value is still not bad.
For carbon issues, VW has had issues with it as well. My dealer said to make sure to use top tier gas and avoid speedway. So far its worked, 230K and going strong.
Thanks your video was helpful , I'm glad I stick with the older hondas, 2.4 litre engines ,turboless 2013 and older hondas are very reliable . I learned alot from you 5k oli change is the key
If they got direct injection with a high pressure fuel pump they got this problem. Maybe not as bad as the Honda engines because from what I have been told uses rings designed for high efficiency. If you own anything with GDI I would be changing oil sooner than later unless I have a long commute to burn off the excess fuel.@@brkbtjunkie
I have a 2019 si and live in montreal where we get minus 15 all winter.....no issues whatsoever. I need to say also that starting in the winter is not harder at all...30 celcius or minus 30 celcius, it starts instantly all the time.
I’ve seen the injection time on Hondas is a lot longer than other GDI engines, the ECM commands the fuel injectors open for almost 2ms which is an eternity for GDI injectors. Most other manufacturers have a GDI injection time of under 1ms or around 700-900us, idk if there has been software updates to change that but it’s what I’ve noticed while diagnosing this issue
@@davidpowell3347 I’m not sure if the flow rate on the injectors is lower than other manufacturers requiring them to be open longer, I’m not sure the reason I just know that a known good fuel injector is open for around 1.9ms
My guess is that the are running a lower pressure so the flow rate is a touch lower meaning they need to hold them open a touch longer. I wonder if the problem would be worse if it was higher pressure at a shorter open rate.
I've worked for VW since 2011. And I've said this exact thing for years. While cars are less likely to leave you stranded these days, they are not made for long term reliability. While saving on mpgs, we end up wasting a lot of other materials which are not recycled. Asinine. The days are over where you can skip that extended warranty, unless you are prepared to self ensure thousands in repairs, or have the skills to do it yourself. Sad days
People need to change their oil more often too and consider going one grade higher in viscosity especially in hot climates. 3000 to 5000 miles is not unreasonable. Expecting 10,000 to 12,000 miles from oil and relying on maintenance reminder light to protect your engine is ridiculous especially on these dilution-prone direct injection engines.
Older cars are the best cars I font care what anyone says yeah they rust and need some restoration but who cares the amount of money you put in these newer cars were they make em less reliable you might as well put that money to use I'm an older car
you nailed it with the comment ''While saving on mpgs, we end up wasting a lot of other materials which are not recycled'' . I wish the government would see this isnt such a great trade off . I take the long way for my commute so my crv burns some gas in the oil therefore while the 2020 CRV gets better gas mileage than my previous 2013 CRV I'm using just as much gas lol
I own a 2019 crv with the 1.5 . I live in northern part of Canada. I have excessive oil dilution. I agree with your comments. Honda canada denied they had a problem. So what I do is doubled my oil changes run the vehicle in sport mode to keep rpms up. I keep my heater on low. I have done all the updates. Now your comment on the owner having to do their part I disagree. I think this is excessive. I also run higher octane gas to keep the injectors clean and run a pea cleaner once in in while. Why didn't honda have port injection and direct injection like Toyota. I will speak with my wallet and move to Toyota. The dealer in my town has had ice build up in the crankcase of many of these engine that have short runs. If you drive on short runs city driving and idle with heater on high this engine does not stay at operating temp. Only way to get to operating temp is to highway drive.
it says on the manuals 0w-20 for fuel efficiency vs 5w-30 for protection!! you decide if you waste that engine at the end of the loan or protect it for many years to come
I’ve got 130k miles on a 16 civic with the 1.5L turbo and the car runs like it did when I bought it. I’m keeping the car so long as it runs. Edit: I live in Phoenix
I went into the Toyota dealer with 5% fuel dilution and they said it was normal. The problem arose due to the use of E10 (10% ethanol fuel): The ethanol oxidises and then polymerises to form sticky brown deposits that gum up the rings. Even the dipstick can end up brown from these deposits. The sticky rings let the fuel get into the sump. The fuel dilution of the oil compromises the lubricant film of the piston and bore... and you can end up with score marks up and down the bore. Fortunately, if you stop using E10 the problem stops getting worse. Unfortunately, to clear out the deposits you will need to flush your engine... perhaps more than once. In many countries, ethanol is used in virtually all fuels so you can't simply stop using it. 🙂
It’s the same with Nissan. I bought a new 2020 Nissan Altima 2.5 DI non-turbo. I always buy new and always change out the first oil at 500-1000 miles. Thank god I did on this car. Not knowing the fuel dilution issue, I almost had a heart attack when I pulled the drain plug and the most horrendous fuel smelling oil came out. I wasn’t even trying to smell the oil. The stench was over powering. I truly thought my engine was toast. I immediately read online that this was “normal” for DI engines. Fortunately the problem seemed to fix itself after a few thousand miles. I change my oil with Pensoil platinum synthetic every 6k miles and the oil smells normal with a hint of fuel and it doesn’t seem to burn any oil either. I’ve heard that the 8k-10k oil changes on these DI engines are killers on the bearings and cam. Now, if your like me and trade in your car with under 100k miles then it probably doesn’t matter but buyer beware.
@@markr.1984 Yes, I watched the full video, and I just watched it agin, he never mentioned a heater problem. He mentions the software update raising the engine operating temp to help the oil dilution, nothing about the lack of heat from the heater or defroster.
I loved my ‘18 Civic hatch. I was gonna buy at lease end but the oil dilution issue persuaded me not too. It was bad. Also, the engine under light loads and in cold weather here in NY would operate at such a low temp that the heat would not work.
Excellent video. I just purchased a 2024 Accord EX with the 1.5 Liter turbo engine (L15BE VTEC). I plan to get the oil changed at a minimum every 7K miles, and I rarely drive for less than 15 minutes at a time so my engine always reaches operating temperature. Plus I drive conservatively. Where I live, in the winter it rarely gets below 45F except in the early morning hours before sunrise. Since it's a new car, I should have the latest software updates. The advice in this video is excellent and should be followed. Also, this engine has mechanical lifters so I plan to have the valves adjusted at least every 30K miles.
Thinking of buying an Accord myself. This is steering me towards the hybrid as we live in Maine, (it tends to get chilly here) and my wife only drives locally.
@@toetz4491 That is why I am interested in getting the Civic sport with the 2.0 engine and the manual transmission. I was originally fixated on the SI.
Honda is going to be untrusted brand here also in Indonesia. That oil dilution problem also exist here for the 1.5T engine in very hot climate country. The problem for the owner usually is quite the opposite with the problem in your country, the engine oil is run out for the some amount of time, before the time to change the oil. The most up to date problems with Honda brand here in Indonesia and South East Asia is their motorcycle. Some of their motorcycle, millions in unit, are using new frame they called ESAF, which has very poor quality, many problems that the frame are broken in the middle of the road while driven, even when the age of the motorcycle is less than 3 or four years. They don't accept the responsibility to do recall for their product, but suggest the customer to buy new frame of their own cost.
Excellent info for this. This mechanic sounds like he'd be a great one to have on my side, except he's over in Utah and I'm in PA. Just maintain the engine, keep short trips to minimum, be aware of it, especially in cold climate, and you'll be fine. Will this stop me from buying a Honda with this 1.5 turbo? Nope. If I can find a good used one at the end of the year, it won't stop me from getting it if the 1.5 is under the hood.
I'd worry about Carbon build up piston rings before worrying about dilution. Ive rebuilt more engines for sticking piston rings than dilution rebuilds... Like 20 to 1.
I had the 2017 crv, and the cooling system was way too efficient. I live in the Boston area, so it gets cold here. Drive around 10 mins, and the temp gauge finally moves to halfway. Park it and leave it running with the heat on, and the gauge would drop back down and would take forever for the heat to get hot.
Thats pretty normal for the 1.5 - our 2017 Civic is parked in the garage, you can smell the gas in the oil in the engine compartment - smells like on old Chevy. Problem started when the car was 3 months old.
Thank you for the video. I just bought a 2024 civic sport touring with the 1.5t and its a great car. im still stuck in the mentality of oil change every 3000 miles, but oil and filter are cheap. engine replacement is not!
Have 99k on my 2017 CRV and its running good. I red lined it several times to see if it would blow but no luck .😂 Funny thing is I still have the original brakes which is amazing.
So what did Honda do (supposedly) after 2018 to solve the problem? I mean, to *really* mitigate the problem (not their magic "software update"). Or were they not really able solve this inherent problem?
Very good advice for anyone driving short distances in cold weather. I do drive mostly short distances myself so I change my oil every 3000 miles or six months, whatever comes first. I also try to exercise my car by driving it 30 minutes every 2 or 3 weeks to burn off gas in the oil. Direct fuel injection, while great for efficiency, has been problematic with carbon buildup and fuel dilution… So I’ve resisted buying a newer car just for that reason, unless it has port injection as well, as does Toyota has done by using BOTH as odd as it may seem, for using port fuel injection together with direct fuel injection solves carbon buildup.
Most modern engines are designed to warm more more quickly because that is when emissions are highest and cold starting was included in the standard tests.
I have had this problem on our 2020 card. At the last only change I pulled 6 quarts of fluid out of the oil drain. It smelled like gas for sure and the car had been running terrible with no pickup. As soon as I changed the oil the car ran much better. I definitely agree with changing the oil at 5k miles. I wish we had bought a card with a different engine.
My 2019 civic coupe 1.5t has been fine so far. Im at 60k miles now. I change my oil every 3500 miles. I keep my eye on the pcv valve and change it every 20k. Im also running lucas low viscosity oil additive. Just incase. I also switched from the honda A02 filter (made by fram) to a baldwin, Purolator boss, or full , oil filters. I also use crc intake valve and turbo cleaner often as in 5-7x a year. Right before an oil change. I always warm it up during winter here in VT , and never do short trips and just shut it off.
You mentioned it affects Honda CRV from 2016 on. I have a 2016 and it has the 2.4 litre engine, not the 1.5 litre. Unless I am wrong, it is Honda CRVs from 2017 on that are affected.
That's the last year honda I would buy. Our 2010 crv approaching 500k so Im currently looking for a 2016 2.4 to replace it. No way some turbo tiny 4cyl will last as long with as little issues.
If you have the 2.4 L engine count your blessings. Arguably the best motor Honda ever made hold onto that forever. That engine originally started out in the 1980s as a 2.2 L VTEC in-line four. Finally they boarded out to a 2.4 L and its reliability is absolutely legendary.
IMO High pressure fuel pump leaking past the seal is the problem. -causes gas in the oil as well as low fuel pressure which leads to long cranking until the pressure in the pump is regained.
I have the 2019 Honda Accord 1.5 and I took it in for the software update and that didn't seem to make much difference I can smell gasoline in the oil even after I bring it home from having it changed I'm doing the 5,000 mi changes too by the way. I know there's a class action lawsuit against Honda about this but it probably won't go anywhere but this is for sure my last Honda. Why should the customer have to foot the bill to have this expensive cleaning of the intake valves just because of the way they built these engines. I bought Honda since 1987 and of course the engines have always been bullet-proof but this engine is a failure in my mind and don't forget the low tension oil control rings they use on these that causes severe oil consumption in many cases.
Speak with your wallet. I have been a honda owner since 1991. Disappointed with 1.5 in a cold climate.. What is honda going to do when there will a massive amount of engine failures . They will gladly sell you another car.
I avoided myself the 1.5t in the Accord and got the 2017 where it was still the 2.4L non-turbo. Issue with Honda is their customer service is lacking. Hopefully the class action goes somewhere. Honda had a paint issue on the Civics and they refused to do anything but they ended up loosing the class action for that
These engines come from the factory running 16.5-18psi of boost depending on the application. That's pretty high for commuter cars. My diesel runs less boost.
I ditched our CRV and 2018 Civic 1.5t for a 2021 Rav 4. It’s got the 2.5l naturally aspirated well proven motor- GDI and Port fuel injection helps with carbon buildup , bulletproof 8 speed ( non CVT tranny) and well proven AWD system. 70k miles so far basic maintenance only and still riding with the original brakes too.
Honda does build some of the best engines going back decades. I bought a 2006 Odyssey with 150K miles 7 years ago. I started getting random misfire codes. Changed spark plugs and coils, problem continued. Took it to the dealership as I figured they'd find the issue with Honda specific computers and Honda trained and certified techs. First time I took it in they said the misfire is so minimal it's barely registering on their computers. They erased the code and sent me on my way. A few months later the same codes popped up again. I took it back. They recommended I do a valve adjustment and that this "should" correct the issue. After doing some research I confirmed these J series V6's do require it after 100-150k miles. At this point the van has somewhere around 180k miles so I figured what the heck. If it will correct the issue and it needs it anyway then it's worth the $800 they quoted me. Another few months go by and the codes come back! Now I'm getting agitated. I go back a 3rd time and they give me the same story, it's minimal and not affecting the engine. Now I take to the forums and start doing some more digging. Turns out Honda's fuel saving feature, VCM, was the culprit. After learning of all the problems this system caused in multiple models (Pilot, Ridgeline, Accord) I decided to take matters into my own hands. I followed the many recommendations of installing a VCM Muzzler. Holy cow! This little device that cost less than $200 fixed the issue! The van is now well over 200k miles and running like a champ. I called the dealership and asked them why no one thought of suggesting VCM was the issue. I told them I found service bulletins from Honda about the issues VCM causes and even a class action lawsuit to have piston rings replaced! But unfortunately for me that covered only certain models starting in 2008. Moral of the story, Honda along with many other manufacturers build really good engines but screw them up with all these fuel economy systems that eventually end up causing extreme damage which will cost way more to fix than any "savings" you may have gotten. Of course by the time the problems arise you are probably out of warranty. I consider myself lucky that someone other than Honda figured out a simple and economical solution. Knowledge is power. If you plan on keeping your vehicles long term, educate yourselves! (Sorry for the long post, it's just aggravating to see another round of problems cropping up on otherwise really good engines, all in the name of trying to get 1-2 mpg savings, which the everyday consumer doesn't really see or benefit from anyway!)
thanks for the educational informative post! I'm well aware of this issue, from reading on the Ody forum, for Odyssey's. Classic that a dealer wouldn't mention that since they either dn't know, or they dn't want to make Honda look defective in design, which it absolutely was for many years re the VCM system, presumably still is. Not only Honda, all makers with cyl deactivation, cause engine issues and failures, GM being the most famous infamous one
Sometimes owners abuse their cars and cause issues, not necessarily the design of the car. I'm not saying you did, but a past owner might not have been changing the oil regularly. Cars need maintenance and some people have no clue what that means.
I just got a V6 accord and am looking to get the vcm tuner but unfortunately they keep selling out the day the new batch is released… hopefully I’ll have better luck next time.
@@18_rabbit Thanks for reading my extremely long post! I agree. Honda has built their reputation on durable and reliable vehicles. But unfortunately everyone has to abide by government regulations and these are the results. By the time these systems start causing serious issues, the vehicle is out of warranty and most people will just buy a new or gently used one instead dealing with it.
@@methanial73 "Sometimes" is an understatement. I honestly believe 95% of people driving a vehicle have no clue it requires regular maintenance. I have a friend that leased a new Audi SUV last year. She has no clue about cars. She asked me the other day if I think she should get an oil change because she now has 10K miles on it. She said no one at the dealership told her about maintenance. I'm like yeah of course they didn't. 1. It's a lease so you're trading it in, in about 3 yrs so if it breaks later it's someone else's problem and 2. If it breaks while you have it they hope you bring it to them to fix it or put you in another car! I can't stand dealerships. Odyssey's are known to have major transmission failures. I change the fluid on mine every other year regardless of miles. Also recently changed the pressure sensors and checked the solenoids. I changed the filter a few years back. It's shifting smooth and strong. I change the engine oil every 5K miles or 6 months, which ever comes first. Engine runs great. It's old and beat up on the outside but solid mechanically.
I have a 2016 civic ex-t with a 1.5 turbo and have 188k and have had no issues with this. I do have a longer commute to work, so this is probably why my car hasn’t had issues.
I tip my hat to you sir! Great job explaining the mechanical issue and giving Honda owners several workable solutions 😊. Excellent
Thank you!
We live in Montana, not many short trips, and we had oil dilution issues on a 16 and 18 Crv's with the 1.5 T. Oil was always way over full and smelled very strong of gasoline. Didn't think we had issues until I started checking oil myself. The worst part was the response we had from Honda. Deny, deny, deny. I traded for a 19 Passport with the N/A six cylinder engine.
The good old tried and true J35 V6 hasn’t impressed me until I learned about the oil dilution in their turbo 4’s. I installed an S-VCM and an Idlestopper in a 2019 Acura MDX so 3cyl don’t shut off on the highway and also it doesn’t shut off on a stop sign. Otherwise they’re hearty engines when maintained. 100k timing belt, water pump sparkplugs are about it. Don’t forget the transmission fluid, transfer case, rear diff fluids before 60-80k
So you gave them more of your money?
My dude, you should have more respect for yourself than that.
They screwed you with a major engine issue then doubled-down and refused to take responsibility. So, your solution is to just give them more of your money? lol
@nodak81 what else could I do, I wasn't going to sell it to someone else with the issue. I'm just not that kinda guy.
@@MontanaWelldigger at least the J35 V6 has been tried and true and they haven’t tried any of the crazy stuff on it. I would, however run an S-VCM Controller and or an Idlestopper. They’re both about $200 total worth of easy plug and play devices but IMO well worth it as preventative upgrades
Just bought a new '23 Civic sport hatch a few weeks ago and opted for the 2.0L NA engine as I've never trusted the reliability of these tiny turbos. Sounds like I made the right choice
Same got mine aswell.
Yes you did!
I'm waiting for a Sport Hatch 2.0L with manual transmission to show up at a local dealer. No, I didn't order one. I'm not in a need of a car, but if one shows up, I'll make an offer and see where it goes. It's probably going to be the last chance to get something like that without too much new tech and useless gizmos. I mean, these 2.0 are the last of Honda engines WITHOUT Turbo and WITHOUT Direct Injection. Yes, I'm aware of the fact that even Honda's own website had it INCORRECTLY listed as Direct Injection (they fixed it some months ago), and that many auto websites like CarAndDriver still list the wrong information. The so-called "journalists" these days.
I’m rolling the dice. I got the sports hatch 1.5. Drives fun though
Thinking about getting one of those. I've heard oil catch cans from the PCV help with blowby. @@snc237
Thank God for sensible explanations and no over-dubbed thumping music.
Toyota engineers are actually quite smart and implemented a nice solution to the carbon build up issue with DI engines. Toyota uses two sets of injectors in their dynamic force engines, one direct and the other one behind the valve like a port injection style. The computer actually chooses which particular injector to use depending on several engine load and driving conditions. Also they went the N/A route avoiding any issues with a turbo.
oh nice! thank you for sharing
Toyota went the turbo way. Look at the new tundra and tacoma. We will see if the new Corolla goes with a turbo or not in 2025 to compete with the civic
Our Rav4 also has an electric water pump, which reduces liquid flow when the engine is cold! The engine warms up incredibly fast, which would reduce this issue.
That's why I bought a new Toyota, the D-4S injection system is great.
@ShadetreeAutomotiveLayton yeah it's the 4-DS injection system, just got a new Camry because of it and the real 8 speed transmission. My last two cars were older Accords which I loved but I noticed the problems with this earth dreams nonsense and couldn't justify paying $30k for a car with a iffy engine.
Thank you explaining why there are issues with the 1.5t and how to minimize or avoid future engine problems. I got the 1.5t with 26k on it, now approaching 56k. I live in California and most of my driving is highway. I haven't experienced any issues yet and have changed the oil every 5k. I hardly ever drive in sport mode pushing the engine hard, and I've had fuel injection service as recommended and using high octane fuel. Great performance thus far. Hopefully it continues as maintenance is done. Once again, thank you for educating me about this engine.
Low tension piston rings are probably also a factor. All manufacturers are struggling with this as rings are the primary source of friction in engines.
That is the whole problem, not enough ring tension for a turbo engine. Low engine temp equals greater piston to wall clearance. Direct injection doesn't "force" fuel past the rings that is compression multiplied by the forced induction of the turbo. Also the amount of fuel supplied by the injectors is no more than what is needed by the engine.
I have heard honda 1.5 taints the oil in a few weeks
epa and feds are the true issues with I.C.E.!!!
Exactly. This was not a widespread issue until the manufacturers started lessening the tension on the piston rings, in addition to higher fuel pressure GDI & most likely higher cylinder pressure due to the turbocharger (forces more air into the cylinder).
All efficiency has been gotten out of conventional piston engines without sacrificing durability. The government needs to lay off and engineers need to start over-building engines again with reliability in mind.
I own a 2016 CIvic with the 1.5t currently at 110k mi no dilution issues and she runs strong. I routinely change oil at 15%. That being said i also live in Phx and commute 45 min a day, so this info certainly aligns with my scenario.
HAHA ! I live in Buckeye west of Phoenix also . Unburnt fuel gets burned off pretty around here ! 🌵🥵
You probably never did an oil test lol
You change oil at 15%???
@@johnball8758isn’t that what most people do?
@@johnball8758 Honda vehicles since the 2000's has a maintenance minder, counting down from 100% oil life to 0%.
The carbon is not due to efficiency, its due to direct injection and the recirc.
I put a catch can on mine to help mitigate that.
They need to do dual injection with port injectors and direct injectors like Toyota. I want to buy a new Honda/Acura because I love the efficiency of the 1.5L but I also keep my cars for over 10 years.
Yup Hyundai has these problems because most of their engines are direct injection. They recommend running a system cleaner through one of the vacuum hoses while the engine is running so it can clean the carbon off the valves. If the engine is super dirty man that's a smoke show. But usually runs "better" afterwards
@@SUp3RpooP3r7698 all in the efforts to "reduce" emissions. What a joke, my 2000 Acura TL needs the intake carbon cleaned every 100k or so due to the EGR and PCV system but the valves remain spotless.
@@Darksyne I have a Subaru STi now, used to own a Chevy Cruze, but I'm happy that it has port injection so I don't have to worry about all those direct injection problems. EPA and all these agencies forcing manufacturers to produce these crappy engines are the problem. I never understood the big deal about car engines being so dirty when the airline industry and people that own private jets put more pollution in the air than any of us ever could in multiple lifetimes, oh yeah, and China.....
I would stay away from all mainstream small turbo engines and try to get a 2 liter - 2.5 liter non- turbo if possible
fair enough
happy with my 07 civic lx :)
Got rid of 2019 CRV. Was changing oil every 3000 and it was BLACK! Got the 4 liter 4Runner.
Smart
I have two direct injected cars and at a 5k oil change interval I haven’t had an issue. I even sent a sample to Blackstone at 3k miles from my 2.0 turbo Volkswagen (direct injection) and it came back perfect. I have no reason to believe that my direct injection Honda is any different.
Change your oil every 5k miles and it’s not an issue.
I worked at Honda's emission lab. I saw all of the current production engines do this in certain conditions. Direction injection, short trips. Cold weather makes it worse.
Does the current 22+ Civic have the dilution issue?
They are still selling this engine too. Should I take a chance on one or just go with the 2.0 hybrid?
@@jackanderson2773 Got the hybrid. for my wife.
@@powerstroketurbo95 Honda and the forums say the issue has been fixed
That had to be a cool job. Thanks for sharing
Great information. The nostalgia for the 2.4 stronger than ever.
Probably the most reliable Honda you could buy today would be the lowest mile K24 Accord/CRV you can find. Although the J35 is still a fantastic engine despite all the modifications to eke out every last mpg possible, e.g., VCM, ditching VTEC etc..
Wow -a great thorough explanation - This ties together in a very comprehensive way a few things I had heard before. Many thanks!
Had the same issues in the first mazda DI platform. We ended up using a different oil solution (generally anything formulated for euro spec engines and/or everything dexos 1 and above.) oh and ventilation of the block with catch cans.
Direct injected turbo engines seem to all suffer from this and the valves getting gunked up (unless it's a dual type injection). This is why I got rid of my 19 Ranger, I'm not waiting 10 years for a lawsuit to reimburse me for an engine that ended up 1-2 quarts overfilled. Catch cans don't prevent the issue either.
thats from using crappy 87 fuel
catch cans do help prevent carbon "gunked" buildup. Also, using high quality synthetic oil and changes at 5k vs 7.5k or 10k. To prevent the gas in the oil pan, got to get the vehicle up to temp. Cold and short drive cycles will exasperate the issue. Should have taken the Ranger to dealer under warranty and have them address the concern. But, maybe getting rid of it was the right move...
@@Fa5Squad is using mid-grade sufficient, in your opinion?
@@Fa5Squad 93 octane for my 2.0T Audi.
Am thinking about keeping my wife's 2010 Accord V6, as we have only put 30,000 miles on it. No problems, totally reliable, very quick, and gets 20-21 mpg in town driving, easily more than 30 mpg on highway (best was 35 mpg MD to Delaware on flat terrain). Not sure a newer Honda would be any better. I prefer naturally aspirated engines and dislike CVT's.
If there's not a problem don't sell that baby !
Look into vcm delete options it causes all sorts of problems like high oil consumption
My dad had one of those. Outside of eating brake pads like they were cookies to the cookie monster you’re right, typical Honda reliability.
I would not get rid of that car. Only 30K? Wow. I have 280k on my 2008 CRV and it runs like a top. If you can forgo all the gadgets on newer cars you’ve saved a boatload of $$ in car payments and repairs.
@@mercedescherokee6853
VCM killed my sisters 2008 Accord V6, mushroomed valves
No dilution on mine, after the dealership did the SW update and after i started changing the oil by myself. The dealerships routinely overfilled my Civic when they did the oil change. Yes, you heard me right. I also monitor how much is drained at every change now and so far, no problem at all. Interval of 15 percent of honda minder, full synthetic only with new filter every time.
You also KNOW..( specifically if you have sense enough to use a proper torque socket wrench) that when you change your own oil...The oil drain plug..ISN'T over torqued unlike at some dealerships or especially these idiotic quick lube places who love to use a damn air wrench to torque it.
@elim7228 Does the dealership do the SW update for free? Can I simply call them up and ask for the update? I'm out of the warranty window already.
@@nesone6520I’m under warranty so I will be asking for this. I believe the software updates has the car rev at 2k rpms for a minute or so upon startup
I'm keeping my 2016 Accord Sport 6mt for a lot longer. 85k, no oil burning or fuel dilution. Get it out on the highway at least once a week and blow out the cobwebs
2018 crv here and never had an issue although we did receive an update through recall. Live in northern Canada
This was so helpful and simple to understand for a non- mechanic. Thank you.
Just sold my 2017 civic hatch sport. Had 185,000 km on it. 1.5•L turbo. Ran like a dream. Never one problem. Just traded up to the 2023 civic hatch sport touring
Holy S-word!! I have a 2018 Civic and I've yet to hit 50,000 miles!! Do you drive across the USA, ocean to ocean every month or something? That's an insane amount of miles for a 2017 anything. Are you sure you didn't typo and you meant 85,000 and not 185,000? Even 85,000 would be extreme for a 2017.
@@markr.1984 you heard right. Although it’s 185,000 KM not miles. I drove the car from Vancouver Canada to the Florida keys twice in 2017 and 2022. Also 3 times to California, Utah, across Canada and more! Could not ask for a better vehicle
I must say this for me this was one of the best talks ive herd on this problem thank you very much someone that knowd what there talking about cheers. 😊
Thank you!
We have a 2019 CRV 1.5, even with the fix - still has gas oil dilution. It even has it in summer, albeit less. In the Midwest… Honda said the 19 “fixed” it, did not. We change oil less than 5000mi between changes. Mixed lengths drive, some highway longer, some short. Like video said some longer drives to burn off oil helps, minimize remote starts (won’t let it get to operating temp as fast). When possible we also wait a few minutes for engine to get off of minimum temp / cold to start using heat in the winter. Those few things have helped reduce it, but not eliminate it. Also Makes a lot of sense for more regular oil changes. Too bad theirs not a way for the engine to trap it and burn off the gas, even from the oil pan itself.
One person down the street who has a 2018 crv with this issue got an engine block heater and drives his in ‘sport’ after a minute or two in cooler temps to get engine warmer quicker. Said is has reduced engine oil consumption, he also changes oil at 3000mi.
Having owned several Hondas in the past with zero issues, this will likely be our last Honda. I have a 19 Ridgeline, no issues at all with oil dilution, but a totally different engine.
A guy had the dilution problem he mixed the oil 50-50 percent 0w-20 and 5w-20. He said he drove his vehicle 20,000 miles and no dilution problem . Of course he had regular oil change intervals. With the 1.5 turbo I change at 5,000 mile intervals. And use premium gas. So far no problems.I also do the 50 -50 oil mix
I had a dilution problem before mixing the oil. I also use Amsoil synthetic mixed mixed 50 percent 0w-20 and 5w-20. I also get 47.5 miles per gal on a trip from Fuquay Varina NC to Wilmington NC and back.
Thanks for sharing. Sorry your is giving you a little more grief than average
I have the 2018 . I use high octane gas when I fill up. Have had no trouble at 62 thousand miles. Because of this I change my oil at 5 thousand miles. It’s a 1.5 liter civic with the turbo. Love this car.
Right, I watched a UA-cam video where a guy had dilution, but when he went to 93 octane it went away. He went back to 87 octane and it came back. You are correct in running premium gas. I just got a 2024 CRV and it will get a steady diet of 93 octane.
When this started, China forced Honda to do a full recall on all of their cars to fix this. China is a wide variety of weather conditions so I don’t think it’s weather related since people from the Middle East were reporting oil dilution as well. There was a guy on UA-cam who posted a video last year on his 2022. He had the oil changed in October and by December his oil level was half an inch over full.
Lol
You do know that there are all kinds of weather in the middle east ? 😂
@@hondamanvtec2894 I know that. I never said it was related to only summer or winter. Did you even read what I posted? Or did you not listen to the video?
Wow. I think that guy likely has an injector failing or a bigger problem. It shouldn't happen that fast.
@@ShadetreeAutomotiveLaytoni dont believe it's fixed i hope honda recalls it and fixes it
I had a 2018 Civic Si in the NE. Fun car, but tons of oil dilution. Changed the oil very early 3-5k. Never had any major problems.
This is by far the BEST summary I have found out here so far.
What are your thoughts on the Fuel Injector model/manufacturer change? And have you seen failing fuel injectors? What about fouled spark plugs?
We are at our wit's end with a Honda dealership in the greater Houston area and hoping to find an independent mechanic like yours that we can trust. They are refusing to apply any of the Honda Service Bulletin's / software updates to our car because the service manager told us "they don't work.
Yes, we are seeing fuel injector failures quite often as of late. We haven't seen fouled spark plugs but are often times changing earlier than the normal 100k miles when we find issues.
My 2018 Civic Sport had the turbo 1.5 and it had the fuel smell problem around 30,000 miles. I ended up having to change the oil every 2500 miles. I sold it when it was about out of warranty and bought a natural aspirated V6 Lexus.
@@jalopy2472Same engine in my 2013 Venza V6. 110k miles on it, and the oil is golden honey at 4000 miles on it. like new.
Lexuses are ugly af, but the FK8 civics are worse, so you upgraded!
@@qx4n9e1xpugly af?
I change the Camry oil at about 5500 miles and it is like new, kind of Sam Adams amber, but no soot, never burned a drop@@SuperMan-uj7dh
@@qx4n9e1xpFK8’s are the ugliest civics ever made!
Great video! Thanks for all the "Look For" information as well as what we can do to help mitigate a huge problem. Also, 5000 miles is an easy number to remember to change the oil and rotate your tires. Thanks for the good information.
Glad to help!
Just bought 2019 CRV EX, 25000 miles. Our first Honda. A little concerned about the 1.5 but do appreciate this video
Had a 2017 CRV. Exact issues and warning signs you described here. The software update solved nothing. Had multiple oil analysis done to make our case. Battled with Honda and the dealership for months. Even though the dealership recognized our issue their hands were tied. Finally the dealer bought our car back and we bought a RAV4. End of story.
Smart move
I have a 21 CRV and it does get cold here in Ohio too. Last winter the temperature dropped into the negatives and it snowed. I do not push my car like normal in snowy conditions and the car struggled to reach operating temperature and I drove it 19 miles to work. I hope the software update addresses operating temperature and cabin heat in extreme cases.
It does not...can't beat physics.
No the software update did nothing. There is no fix just drive it till its dead or dump it.
In the winter, be sure to get your car running while you finish getting snow off. Don't just crank up and go. Always good to let it idle for a bit in winter weather.
Put in a radiator cover cardboard like the big rigs. These engines are too damn efficient.
@jo9732 😂😂 As a truck driver this might work but I would start with small piece
I just bought a 2021 CRV Touring AWD that was a corporate vehicle w/under 16K. Carfax showed the oil was changed quite often. Owned less than 1 month and changed the oil myself with Mobil 1 and OEM Filter. I drive 25 miles one way to work. I also before shut down let it idle a bit to relax the turbo. This is my first Honda.. we'll see how it goes
2019 Accord 1.5T and no issues. I'm guessing the slight difference in tune that the Accord has had minimized the problem. I think the engine's great. It is very fuel efficient but also offers some good get-up and go when wanted.
Do an oil analysis test and realize you're kidding yourself. I have an accord with the 2.0 with regular 4-5% fuel in tests.
@singular9 Well, I do my own oil/filter changes. No smell of fuel in oil. Plus, as the video states, Accord seems less affected. Runs like a top.
I also have a 2019 and a week ago it starts to shake when it starts but stabilizes in 4 seconds and now I even smelled gasoline I change the oil every 4K miles and it only has 32k I always use premium gas
@@joelfranco4757 Unless premium fuel is required, which it is not in the 1.5T, it won't do anything for you. It just increases your operating cost.
Id bet someone has had that issue but your correct, we havent seen any accords as of now
Our 2020 Civic Coupe ex 1.5T has 65k without any issues of any kind. It's half way through its life cycle with us. So far, so good.
Good video with excellent explanation of issues and resolutions for customers.
Rare mechanic that is honest and tries to help customers with problematic design issues.
He should apply for a PR position at Honda. Putting all the onus on the customer for a known design flaw. Change the oil twice as often, all cars do this, it’s not that bad, 😂
@@BreadAndGatorade It's a stop-gap measure to prevent the engine from dying an untimely death.
Thank you!
Finally, a clear and thorough explanation on this subject. I just got a '19 CRV with only 12k miles (in 2024!) and I was getting conflicted info as to which model was affected.
Side note....I have a 2005 Saturn Vue with the 3.5 litre Honda engine and transmission that is about to hit 300k miles in the next few weeks. 🤞
Good explanation of the problems. If summarized correctly, is that Honda made an a motor that has issues and the burden (cost / expense) has been shifted to the customer with more frequent oil changes, de-carbon the motor, more service on the motor, etc.). No where did the video talk about Honda compensating their customer for their design / manufacturing issues.
Stupid EPA. There are environmental costs associated with failed engines and added maintenance!
We own a 2016 civic 1.5 turbo. 80 k miles. Change oil every 5k miles. Never had any oil dilution issues. Full synthetic. Just switched to Valvoline Preserve and Protect.
I have a 2017 CRV and have never had that problem... I am a fanatic about maintenance and change my oil every 5000 miles or less, they did put a battery in my car a few years back under warranty and that`s when they did the software update... I have 72,000 miles now and car runs great would like to know Pennzoil product you guys use for the carbon buildup, not sure if I have that problem as I travel back and forth from Florida to Ct and we are doing 80 mph the whole way...
i work at goodyear// and we also use the Valvoline valve cleaner.. but a a former Classic Italian car tech/ restorer, i was not sure about this.... so i brought my friends bmw.. in very well know for carbon build up on the valves. and did a test,, we followed the instructions ..to the letter.... before we did the cleaner.. we took the intake manifold off the car.. took photos of all the valves... put the manifold back on and proceeded to use the Valvoline treatment ..besides killing every living thing around our shop... we went though the process... ,, after the engine cooled down.. 4 hours.. we removed the intake manifold... carbon still there.. manifold back on and every 250 mile we took the manifold back off... we got very fast at this part... but after 1000 miles , we saw no improvement on carbon lessening off the intake valves... none at. all.. i know this is only one test... but that carbon, is cooked onto the valves.. and even walnut shell blasting take time to remove the carbon... and also it is not recommended to use this product in a turbo car.. as a possibility of carbon fowling the turbo charger.. and damaging it,, and also the chance of small flakes of carbon, getting stuck between the piston and rings and the cly. wall,, this would cause premature engine failing do to the lack of the rings sealing to the cly walls.... we only recommend walnut shell blasting on badly carboned up valve.. we also install an oil vapor separator to keep the oil vapor's and other nice goodies, from entering the intake track... but that is just us....no such thing as ' fix the engine in a can ' right?
Did the oil catch can that you installed help reduce more carbon build up?
Thank you for such an informative video, we need more honest caring auto specialists.
Glad it was helpful!
Never had a problem with my 1.5t. I’ve done all my own oil changes since new, the sump is never overfilled, there’s never any smell or sign of gasoline in the used oil. I drive my car normally and change my oil when the service light comes on. The car runs like new and has never needed anything other than basic maintenance.
What year?
@@barrya.6212
2017, never had the software update done either. 7 years old and the only thing she's ever needed was basic maintenance, oil, fluids and filters. Honestly I don't know what y'all are on about. It's never given me even a hint of trouble.
Same here with 2 new over past 5 yrs
It doesn’t happen to all the engines as people want to make it seem. My civic and mothers crv didn’t have that problem since I change our oil every 5k.
@@theholt2ic219
Some cars need it changed avery 2k miles! or even more often
As an owner of a 9th gen si k24. I have zero interest in any new Hondas. They all seem to have odd issues... and I love Hondas. 265k miles. And only had to replace the clutch at 245k and the radiator at 260k. Fluids obviously. But the car is a champ
Thanks for the info Tom! I have a 2020 CR-V and haven't had issues yet. But I live in southern Arizona and typically drive at least 20 minutes to work at the minimum. However, while I was searching for a new vehicle, I did test drive a 2018 CR-V and when I checked the dipstick it wreaked of gasoline. They knew something was up and it almost kept me from buying Honda ever again. Mind you my first car was an 82 Civic CVCC Wagon, then I've owned an '88 and '92 Civic which were gems. Then on to a 2007 Civic which was incredible. Bought my daughter the 2017 Civic and she's had the updates as well as I'm a stickler for getting that oil change every 5,000 miles. The dealer has told me we don't need to do that with the CR-V or the Civic, and I tell them I still want it. Appreciate this breakdown video!
So has it helped you? The 5,000 intervals?
I can only say I haven't smelled gas in the oil and both our cars are doing swell. So I can at least say it hasn't hurt!
@@CenobiteBeldar
Thank you!
Awesome information! I follow several automotive channels and this is the first time I see one of your videos. Thanks for this awesome explanation! Cheers!
Thank you!
This is probably the best video I've seen on the subject. So much misinformation on why this happens, and it's refreshing to see an unbiased conversation backed by facts.
A couple things I'll add:
- On the topic of carbon buildup, Honda actually runs comparatively clean compared to most TCDI powertrains. If you do a lot of highway commuting, Honda allows a small amount of fuel to mist the intake area on the piston upstroke. The intake valves also reportedly rotate to ensure every corner gets "washed." An induction service every 30K "might" be an overkill, depending on the type of driving the owner does.
- While fuel dilution is a very real issue, the maintenance minder often intervenes before it becomes a problem. In the most extreme driving scenarios, we've seen the MM recommend an oil change as early as 2.6K. That said, some owners still report problems after the software update and increased OCIs.
- I can't remember if it was mentioned, but Honda has extended their coverage on the 2016-2018 1.5T CRV/Civic up to 6 years/unlimited miles. It's limited to vehicles in colder climates and addresses the longer concern of premature wear to the camshafts. For most, that warranty period has already expired.
Thank you!
The oil dilution issue has a great deal to do with the temperature of the oil in the oil pan, as the oil approach 200F, any accumulated fuel is evaporated and pull into the intake track through crankcase ventilation system and burned. So, if the oil in the oil pan even reach operating temperature once in a while (maybe as infrequently at once or twice per month), I would think oil dilution wouldn't be a significant issue.
There's exactly what I have asked. Maybe they are in cold weather for 6 months and it never gets hot enough to burn it off, it just keeps building up
Nice victim blaming. It's their fault for living in cold climates and/or not driving enough. Nothing at all to do with Honda building a crap engine. Lots of other turbo engines out there that don't have this issue...
@@nodak81 literally every turbo engine has it, Subaru, VW, etc
@@nodak81😂 bruh this is an extremely common issue
@@nodak81 Every single GDI turbo engine has this issue......
I was a mechanic in the 60's and 70's in the Yukon , we changed a lot of oil pans and valve covers , when the choke would stick and flood the engine with gas , and had a lot off twisted off oil pump drives as well in 46- degree's , lol.
That sounds like it was real work back in the good old days. Cheers!
The reason for fuel dilution is mainly ring seal.
also the GDI engines use a high pressure fuel pump to inject into the upper cylinders, after the valves, it's over thousand PSI to overcome the high pressures in the cylinders.
Had the 6MT Civic turbo since 2017.
160k miles, not a sneeze from this car.
Zero problems
I'm a classic Honda fan. But sounds like Honda has lost it's way. This is an unacceptable.
Its the emission standards. Toyotas had oil burning in 2010-2014 due to weak piston rings to be able to meet the new emmision standards. All companies are struggling with it.
Very good video on this issue! Thanks for your honesty, info and help! If I lived in Utah, I definitely would use your shop and give you my business!
Thank you!
Last November, I purchased a 2019 CRV LX, 42,000 mi. In excellent condition inside and out. I probably paid more for this LX base model. Than many people would of paid for an EX with all the extra goodies. I did not want that 1.5 Turbo. 8000 miles later I have changed the oil at around 4,000. I have changed the CVT fluid twice already, due to it never being changed before. As far as I know. I wish it got slightly better mileage. Average 26.5. But I couldn’t be happier with this vehicle.
Interesting MPG. On the 2019 EX-L with the 1.5T we get mixed city/highway 30 MPG.
That NA is a bulletproof engine. I had a 2007 crv lx and loved it.
Currently, I have the 2021 CR-V AWD with the 1.5T Earth Dreams with 29,000 miles and no issues so far. I commute 25 minutes to work each way. My vehicle runs great.
Direct injection and boost doesn't always mean best emissions.
In theory it should help meet emission targets but there are actually a few downsides to direct injection, one being fuel droplets actually making contact on bore surfaces and being out of suspension.
Another being carbon build up on the back of the inlet valves and ports because there is no fuel scrubbing action.
Honda isn't the only manufacture with these issues.
I've seen several teardowns of this engine and camera cylinder inspections on this engine. No carbon build-up on intake valves.
So rest easy
Keep air filter changed every 12months or 10000 miles
Change oil every 6 months or 4-5000 miles
Service cvt every 30 40000
Use premium fuel. It's a turbo car
From my experience, using ethanol-free gas seems to help with the oil dilution issue, at least for me. I own the 1.5T engine. I have a theory that the ethyl alcohol makes gas a little bit thinner. Also the slightly higher octanes of the ethanol-free gas might help a touch too. I drive a mix of half ethanol gas and half ethanol-free in the summer but all ethanol-free in the winter and change my oil about Christmas, if it's over 3k miles. then again in February at about 3k more miles. Then I go back to 5k intervals in the spring and summer, but more more than 5k. Also, if you have one of these engines, start up and drive away straight away on a cold morning. Don't let it sit and warm up under no load, parked. You engine will warm up far faster under load, thus limiting the oil dilution. So just get in and drive it away within a few seconds.
Strangely enough you make a valid point. Yamaha outboards have a known issue of making oil. (Dilution). These higher HP outboards are used offshore and spend many many hours at idle or low rpm trolling under little to no load. It has been an issue for years and Yamaha says the remedy is to give her the beans. Italian tuneup. Run er like you stole er.
With changing the oil at 5000 miles, my 2017 Honda CR-V runs about 2.5-3% fuel, with viscosity near the lower limit of acceptable (but not lower than allowed). I certainly wouldn’t extend the oil change interval as long as the computer allows.
I’ve done Blackstone UOA tests every other oil change on my 2017 1.5L Civic over past 65k miles. It has not shown oil dilution issues. Drive your car harder and change oil every 5k miles. There is a reason the CRV owners are the ones that talk about this the most. They never drive them hard and keep long oil change intervals.
My understanding was it occurred mostly under cold weather conditions. As mentioned here and several years ago...
Of course your Blackstone report won't show your fuel.... you burn off the fuel when you warm the oil for the oil change.
@@JackRR15 nothing like telling the entire world you have no clue how an engine works lol
Drive it harder? That defeats the purpose of having an economical engine.
I have a 2018 crv with the same problem and I live in california, and now you can add an extended warranty for the a/c condenser as well. I decided to sell the car this week due to the resale value is still not bad.
no nice. whatd you replace it with?
After watching this video and reading all of the comments, I’m glad I bought a Toyota.
For carbon issues, VW has had issues with it as well. My dealer said to make sure to use top tier gas and avoid speedway. So far its worked, 230K and going strong.
Thanks your video was helpful , I'm glad I stick with the older hondas, 2.4 litre engines ,turboless 2013 and older hondas are very reliable . I learned alot from you 5k oli change is the key
Glad it helped thanks for the support
WOW. I guess you'll learn something new everyday. Here I thought Fuel Injection completely eliminated Fuel dilution Problems. Thanks for the update.
Another reason why you should not be doing 10k oil change intervals. I do every 5k or 6 mos synthetic and every 3k or 6 mos conventional.
Except most cars don’t have this problem
It does not matter if they do or do not you should not be doing 10k mile oil changes.@@brkbtjunkie
If they got direct injection with a high pressure fuel pump they got this problem. Maybe not as bad as the Honda engines because from what I have been told uses rings designed for high efficiency. If you own anything with GDI I would be changing oil sooner than later unless I have a long commute to burn off the excess fuel.@@brkbtjunkie
I have a 2019 si and live in montreal where we get minus 15 all winter.....no issues whatsoever. I need to say also that starting in the winter is not harder at all...30 celcius or minus 30 celcius, it starts instantly all the time.
I’ve seen the injection time on Hondas is a lot longer than other GDI engines, the ECM commands the fuel injectors open for almost 2ms which is an eternity for GDI injectors.
Most other manufacturers have a GDI injection time of under 1ms or around 700-900us, idk if there has been software updates to change that but it’s what I’ve noticed while diagnosing this issue
Did not design the fuel injection pressure to be high enough?
@@davidpowell3347 I’m not sure if the flow rate on the injectors is lower than other manufacturers requiring them to be open longer, I’m not sure the reason I just know that a known good fuel injector is open for around 1.9ms
My guess is that the are running a lower pressure so the flow rate is a touch lower meaning they need to hold them open a touch longer. I wonder if the problem would be worse if it was higher pressure at a shorter open rate.
I just ordered a 2023 2L eCVT, hope I will not have problems. I do live in a cold climate.
Totally different engine. You will be just fine. Great cars
I've worked for VW since 2011. And I've said this exact thing for years.
While cars are less likely to leave you stranded these days, they are not made for long term reliability.
While saving on mpgs, we end up wasting a lot of other materials which are not recycled.
Asinine. The days are over where you can skip that extended warranty, unless you are prepared to self ensure thousands in repairs, or have the skills to do it yourself.
Sad days
People need to change their oil more often too and consider going one grade higher in viscosity especially in hot climates. 3000 to 5000 miles is not unreasonable. Expecting 10,000 to 12,000 miles from oil and relying on maintenance reminder light to protect your engine is ridiculous especially on these dilution-prone direct injection engines.
@@scdevon 100%. Unless you run a bypass filter haha
Older cars are the best cars I font care what anyone says yeah they rust and need some restoration but who cares the amount of money you put in these newer cars were they make em less reliable you might as well put that money to use I'm an older car
you nailed it with the comment ''While saving on mpgs, we end up wasting a lot of other materials which are not recycled'' . I wish the government would see this isnt such a great trade off . I take the long way for my commute so my crv burns some gas in the oil therefore while the 2020 CRV gets better gas mileage than my previous 2013 CRV I'm using just as much gas lol
I own a 2019 crv with the 1.5 . I live in northern part of Canada. I have excessive oil dilution. I agree with your comments. Honda canada denied they had a problem. So what I do is doubled my oil changes run the vehicle in sport mode to keep rpms up. I keep my heater on low. I have done all the updates. Now your comment on the owner having to do their part I disagree. I think this is excessive. I also run higher octane gas to keep the injectors clean and run a pea cleaner once in in while. Why didn't honda have port injection and direct injection like Toyota. I will speak with my wallet and move to Toyota. The dealer in my town has had ice build up in the crankcase of many of these engine that have short runs. If you drive on short runs city driving and idle with heater on high this engine does not stay at operating temp. Only way to get to operating temp is to highway drive.
I am convinced that the widespread use of extremely low viscosity oils. I think that using at least a 5w-30 is necessary to avoid oil dilution.
it says on the manuals 0w-20 for fuel efficiency vs 5w-30 for protection!! you decide if you waste that engine at the end of the loan or protect it for many years to come
@@wellnesscoach73 interesting. sounds like 5w-30 is at least a partial fix then?
I use 15w-40 Rotella
I’ve got 130k miles on a 16 civic with the 1.5L turbo and the car runs like it did when I bought it. I’m keeping the car so long as it runs.
Edit: I live in Phoenix
I went into the Toyota dealer with 5% fuel dilution and they said it was normal.
The problem arose due to the use of E10 (10% ethanol fuel):
The ethanol oxidises and then polymerises to form sticky brown deposits that gum up the rings. Even the dipstick can end up brown from these deposits.
The sticky rings let the fuel get into the sump.
The fuel dilution of the oil compromises the lubricant film of the piston and bore... and you can end up with score marks up and down the bore.
Fortunately, if you stop using E10 the problem stops getting worse.
Unfortunately, to clear out the deposits you will need to flush your engine... perhaps more than once.
In many countries, ethanol is used in virtually all fuels so you can't simply stop using it.
🙂
It’s the same with Nissan. I bought a new 2020 Nissan Altima 2.5 DI non-turbo. I always buy new and always change out the first oil at 500-1000 miles. Thank god I did on this car. Not knowing the fuel dilution issue, I almost had a heart attack when I pulled the drain plug and the most horrendous fuel smelling oil came out. I wasn’t even trying to smell the oil. The stench was over powering. I truly thought my engine was toast. I immediately read online that this was “normal” for DI engines. Fortunately the problem seemed to fix itself after a few thousand miles. I change my oil with Pensoil platinum synthetic every 6k miles and the oil smells normal with a hint of fuel and it doesn’t seem to burn any oil either. I’ve heard that the 8k-10k oil changes on these DI engines are killers on the bearings and cam. Now, if your like me and trade in your car with under 100k miles then it probably doesn’t matter but buyer beware.
Also, there were a lot of issues with lack of heat with the Hondas with these engines.
He mentioned that a few times. Did you actually watch the full video?
@@markr.1984 he may have meant "cabin" heat. the video did mention engine temp, but not cabin heat
@@markr.1984 Yes, I watched the full video, and I just watched it agin, he never mentioned a heater problem. He mentions the software update raising the engine operating temp to help the oil dilution, nothing about the lack of heat from the heater or defroster.
I have the 1.5 T and my climate is very warm and i have dilution. I change it every 3000 miles as opposed to 5000 or 7000 for a full synthetic.
I loved my ‘18 Civic hatch. I was gonna buy at lease end but the oil dilution issue persuaded me not too. It was bad. Also, the engine under light loads and in cold weather here in NY would operate at such a low temp that the heat would not work.
Excellent video. I just purchased a 2024 Accord EX with the 1.5 Liter turbo engine (L15BE VTEC). I plan to get the oil changed at a minimum every 7K miles, and I rarely drive for less than 15 minutes at a time so my engine always reaches operating temperature. Plus I drive conservatively. Where I live, in the winter it rarely gets below 45F except in the early morning hours before sunrise. Since it's a new car, I should have the latest software updates. The advice in this video is excellent and should be followed. Also, this engine has mechanical lifters so I plan to have the valves adjusted at least every 30K miles.
Thinking of buying an Accord myself. This is steering me towards the hybrid as we live in Maine, (it tends to get chilly here) and my wife only drives locally.
Get a naturally aspirated engine while you can.
Honda's 2.0 and 2.4 NA engines are bulletproof . I like their manual transmissions too
@@toetz4491 That is why I am interested in getting the Civic sport with the 2.0 engine and the manual transmission. I was originally fixated on the SI.
@@MrBacchus18 im getting a 2008 + manual trans civic or accord... heck even a fit will do ..for a second or beater car
great video, needed this information. been on the fence on a 2018 accord but the 1.5t scares me away.
Honda is going to be untrusted brand here also in Indonesia. That oil dilution problem also exist here for the 1.5T engine in very hot climate country. The problem for the owner usually is quite the opposite with the problem in your country, the engine oil is run out for the some amount of time, before the time to change the oil.
The most up to date problems with Honda brand here in Indonesia and South East Asia is their motorcycle. Some of their motorcycle, millions in unit, are using new frame they called ESAF, which has very poor quality, many problems that the frame are broken in the middle of the road while driven, even when the age of the motorcycle is less than 3 or four years. They don't accept the responsibility to do recall for their product, but suggest the customer to buy new frame of their own cost.
Excellent info for this. This mechanic sounds like he'd be a great one to have on my side, except he's over in Utah and I'm in PA.
Just maintain the engine, keep short trips to minimum, be aware of it, especially in cold climate, and you'll be fine.
Will this stop me from buying a Honda with this 1.5 turbo? Nope. If I can find a good used one at the end of the year, it won't stop me from getting it if the 1.5 is under the hood.
I'd worry about Carbon build up piston rings before worrying about dilution. Ive rebuilt more engines for sticking piston rings than dilution rebuilds... Like 20 to 1.
I drive a 2020 Honda Civic Sport Coupe Manual with the K20C2 engine : 2.0 L without turbo and without direct injection very reliable so far....
I had the 2017 crv, and the cooling system was way too efficient. I live in the Boston area, so it gets cold here. Drive around 10 mins, and the temp gauge finally moves to halfway. Park it and leave it running with the heat on, and the gauge would drop back down and would take forever for the heat to get hot.
2019 CRV has the same issue, you can practically watch the gauge drop while waiting at a long light
Get a thermostat with a higher cut off
Likely have a bad thermostat.
Thats pretty normal for the 1.5 - our 2017 Civic is parked in the garage, you can smell the gas in the oil in the engine compartment - smells like on old Chevy. Problem started when the car was 3 months old.
Got a 2017 CRV and i live in Quebec and i have the same issue... Imagine when the temperature outside is - 45 degree Celsius 😅
Thank you for the video. I just bought a 2024 civic sport touring with the 1.5t and its a great car. im still stuck in the mentality of oil change every 3000 miles, but oil and filter are cheap. engine replacement is not!
Thanks for a really great succinct explanation. Do you know what Honda did for the 2019 engines to solve the probem?
Have 99k on my 2017 CRV and its running good. I red lined it several times to see if it would blow but no luck .😂 Funny thing is I still have the original brakes which is amazing.
So what did Honda do (supposedly) after 2018 to solve the problem? I mean, to *really* mitigate the problem (not their magic "software update"). Or were they not really able solve this inherent problem?
I have a '21 and can confirm I'm dealing with this issue. I doubt Honda can actually fix it.
Very good advice for anyone driving short distances in cold weather. I do drive mostly short distances myself so I change my oil every 3000 miles or six months, whatever comes first. I also try to exercise my car by driving it 30 minutes every 2 or 3 weeks to burn off gas in the oil. Direct fuel injection, while great for efficiency, has been problematic with carbon buildup and fuel dilution… So I’ve resisted buying a newer car just for that reason, unless it has port injection as well, as does Toyota has done by using BOTH as odd as it may seem, for using port fuel injection together with direct fuel injection solves carbon buildup.
Most modern engines are designed to warm more more quickly because that is when emissions are highest and cold starting was included in the standard tests.
I have had this problem on our 2020 card. At the last only change I pulled 6 quarts of fluid out of the oil drain. It smelled like gas for sure and the car had been running terrible with no pickup. As soon as I changed the oil the car ran much better. I definitely agree with changing the oil at 5k miles. I wish we had bought a card with a different engine.
Did you have a dead cylinder filling the crankcase up with fuel?
My 2019 civic coupe 1.5t has been fine so far. Im at 60k miles now. I change my oil every 3500 miles. I keep my eye on the pcv valve and change it every 20k. Im also running lucas low viscosity oil additive. Just incase. I also switched from the honda A02 filter (made by fram) to a baldwin, Purolator boss, or full , oil filters. I also use crc intake valve and turbo cleaner often as in 5-7x a year. Right before an oil change. I always warm it up during winter here in VT , and never do short trips and just shut it off.
You mentioned it affects Honda CRV from 2016 on. I have a 2016 and it has the 2.4 litre engine, not the 1.5 litre. Unless I am wrong, it is Honda CRVs from 2017 on that are affected.
That's the last year honda I would buy. Our 2010 crv approaching 500k so Im currently looking for a 2016 2.4 to replace it. No way some turbo tiny 4cyl will last as long with as little issues.
I have a 2019 LX CR V basic model with 2.4 liter.
@@albertmeyer246 That's good to hear, does it have the CVT transmission?
Yes, it was bought 2 months ago with only 26,000 miles.
If you have the 2.4 L engine count your blessings. Arguably the best motor Honda ever made hold onto that forever.
That engine originally started out in the 1980s as a 2.2 L VTEC in-line four. Finally they boarded out to a 2.4 L and its reliability is absolutely legendary.
IMO
High pressure fuel pump leaking past the seal is the problem.
-causes gas in the oil as well as low fuel pressure which leads to long cranking until the pressure in the pump is regained.
I have the 2019 Honda Accord 1.5 and I took it in for the software update and that didn't seem to make much difference I can smell gasoline in the oil even after I bring it home from having it changed I'm doing the 5,000 mi changes too by the way.
I know there's a class action lawsuit against Honda about this but it probably won't go anywhere but this is for sure my last Honda.
Why should the customer have to foot the bill to have this expensive cleaning of the intake valves just because of the way they built these engines.
I bought Honda since 1987 and of course the engines have always been bullet-proof but this engine is a failure in my mind and don't forget the low tension oil control rings they use on these that causes severe oil consumption in many cases.
Speak with your wallet. I have been a honda owner since 1991. Disappointed with 1.5 in a cold climate.. What is honda going to do when there will a massive amount of engine failures . They will gladly sell you another car.
I avoided myself the 1.5t in the Accord and got the 2017 where it was still the 2.4L non-turbo. Issue with Honda is their customer service is lacking. Hopefully the class action goes somewhere. Honda had a paint issue on the Civics and they refused to do anything but they ended up loosing the class action for that
I purchased my Honda CRV- LX, 2019 bye myself,I did my research and I told the dealer that I wanted ,the 2.4 engine and that's what I brought
These engines come from the factory running 16.5-18psi of boost depending on the application. That's pretty high for commuter cars. My diesel runs less boost.
That is high. Should have went 10 psi
Not true. I’ve got a 23 SI and I can barely ever get it to go above 16 psi.
I ditched our CRV and 2018 Civic 1.5t for a 2021 Rav 4. It’s got the 2.5l naturally aspirated well proven motor- GDI and Port fuel injection helps with carbon buildup , bulletproof 8 speed ( non CVT tranny) and well proven AWD system. 70k miles so far basic maintenance only and still riding with the original brakes too.