Smith and Wesson vs. Colt Revolvers: Gun Guys Ep. 45 with Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathorn
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
- Truly the classic Ford vs. Chevy debate of the revolver world, both the S&W and the Colt revolvers have their die hard loyalists, and for Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathorn, this is one topic on which they have always found themselves on opposite sides. In this episode, the Gun Guys weigh the merits of Bill's Colt Shooting Master and Ken's S&W Registered Magnum.
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ABOUT BILL WILSON
Bill Wilson has always been infatuated with guns. Originally trained as a watchmaker, he has been in the firearms industry since 1974, starting out with a retail store called Sportsman's Headquarters in Berryville, Arkansas. Since that humble beginning, he has built Wilson Combat into the largest and most successful custom firearms company in America. Since 1977 Wilson Combat has been the leading innovator in high-performance, custom 1911 handguns, tactical long guns and accessories.
A Wilson Combat product’s unmatched level of exceptional reliability and peerless craftsmanship is only equaled by our legendary customer service. Wilson Combat is proud to service all levels of local and State law enforcement including The Department of Homeland Security, US Border Patrol, HQ SOCOM, US Marshal's Service, US Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, Diplomatic Security Service, Texas Rangers and many more elite law enforcement and military units worldwide. We are also pleased to support the needs of thousands of law-abiding private citizens in the United States and in many other countries abroad.
ABOUT KEN HACKATHORN
Ken Hackathorn has served as a US Army Special Forces Small Arms Instructor, Gunsite Instructor, and NRA Police Firearms Instructor. He is currently an FBI Certified Firearms Instructor, and an SRT member and Special Response Team trainer. Ken has trained US Military Special Operations forces, Marine FAST and SOTG units and is a contract small arms trainer to FBI SWAT and HRT. Ken has provided training to Federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies and been active in small arms training for the past 25 years. He has written firearms related material for Guns & Ammo, Combat Handguns, Soldier Of Fortune, and currently American Handgunner and contributed to at least six other gun/shooting journals. Ken was also a founding member of IPSC and IDPA.
My favorite part is Bill low-key tells Ken "don't dry fire my favorite revolver...."
You can see ken about to cock it while he spoke about the action and hesitated too like he remembered what bill said haha don’t want a turn ring on that beauty
My 10-6 had a damaged hammer nose bushing from the previous owner, it definitely causes damage.
@@Snubrevolver There is always somebody who can't resist the overwhelming urge to play cowboy!... Ha!....
Incredible having both right there at arms length. You're a lucky, lucky man Mr. Wilson.
I so much enjoy these "Gun Guys" videos, no matter what the topic. Bill Wilson, Ken Hackathorn, as well as Mas Ayoob were among the thought leaders of the gun community when I was coming up and started my training business, in a gun culture that has been forever changed by our desert wars and switch from print to video. When I see them, I see three men who did what they loved, provided ideas and products of lasting value, and are now reaping the rewards of their hard work in semi-retirement. When we lose them, as we inevitably will, we will have lost resources of real value. Hopefully there will be others ready to step in and take their place. Enjoy these gun guys while you can.
The S&W registered magnum is my pick for the finest revolver of the 20th century. I wish I had one.
miss my 19-3
I recently returned from Florence Italy. While there I marveled at the artistry and skill of Michelangelo's David and Botticelli's masterpiece paintings. I must confess I get the same level of awe and appreciation of extreme God given talent when I see these masterpieces of the Art of the Gun. I consider them of equal quality, just in 3 different mediums.
I own a Shooting Master and several prewar S&Ws. I love them both for different reasons…and really love watching these beautiful and rare versions!
Imagine shipments of these traveling across the United States behind equally magnificent steam locomotives.
Revolvers and steam power!.. Can't beat that.
A wonderful conversation with a little bit of disagreement done in a gentlemanly fashion. Both are beautiful revolvers.
One of my dads best friends years ago told me a story and pulled out two boxes from the safe. Inside one was a triple lock target model and the other was a shooting master . Both 6 1/2” barrels, both with gold bead front eights and ivory grips. This gentleman’s grandfather was a lawmen in Jackson County Florida back during the depression, and carried both of these guns as his duty weapon. Whenever he worked with chain gangs he would have a deputy line up the prisoners and give a shooting demonstration by having a deputy throw a golf ball in the air, this man would draw aim and fire cutting the ball in half. He would then turn to the prisoners and say “if you try to run or harm one of my men I will do that to your manhood.” Both revolvers were chambered in 44 special. They had been refinished at some point in their lives but according to this man and his grandfathers diary, he ordered the Smith in 1912 and the shooting master in 1933.
Beautiful examples of those two models, they both look brand new.
I loved this video; thank you gentlemen. I’ll likely never choose to buy either of these superb works of art and craftsmanship, but my beloved and cherished five-inch, P&R’ed, 3T, M27-2 serves as a reminder of that era of unequalled revolver quality.
The 27 is basically the continuation of the Registered Magnum. Also the 28 is the blue collar version.
@@donaldsheckler3636
That’s certainly correct.
What awesome revolver's! I just bought a Nighthawk custom Korth 357 8 shot's with a 4inch barrel. A trigger like nothing I've ever felt. I'm big into 7 or 8 shot revolver's. Somebody said that's only 1 or 2 shot's more. I said that's 17 to 33% more powder. Have a great night my 2A friend's and a prayer for Larry Vickers!
any recommendations for a modern 7-8 shot
@@brighthought11 the Korth is great but very expensive. Ruger has their 8 shot competition revolver's in 357 and one in 9mm. They also have the Ruger RedHawk in 357 which comes in 3 different barrel length's. They have several GP100 revolver's with 7 round's of 357. You could get Geminicustoms.com to customize a GP100, and they run from about 4,200 to 6,600 dollar's and I believe them to be the best on the planet. They also do S&W revolver's and they have a number of 7 and 8 shot revolver's. I believe one good gun is better then 3 or 4 guns. Have a great night!
@@brighthought11 Ruger g101 or redhawk are 7 and 8, and smith has a lot, 686+ is a 7 shot and 627/327 are both 8 shots
Elmer sure would have liked that Colt!
As a kid, he and Bill Jordan were my hero's. I finally got to me Jordan at a shot show in the very early 90's or late 80's and we has a very long conversation over a cold drink. He was fascinating to listen to. Such a book of knowledge.
I learned point shooting as a kid from the writings of Mr. Elmer. It has saved my butt more than once!
Knifemaker
Wow beautiful pieces of history. I have an old Colt DA .38 1895 that is fairly worn but slick as anything. 🤠
I own and like Colt and S&W revolvers, the Colts are good workmanship and quality, but the action and handling of the Smith and Wesson are better.
I own and shoot both the S&W K 22 Masterpiece and a Colt Officers Model 22. I like the looks and feel of the Smith more, but strangely, I shoot the Officers Model noticeably better. Both are works of Art in metal.
The bluing on the flats of that Colt frame is beautiful.
Classic revolvers are such pieces of art... so I am a smith guy I love them all!
Great conversation. I lean S&W and have a 1917 Smith that is in equal condition to the revolvers shown. It is absolutely mind-boggling the level of craftsmanship this 105 y/o revolver has, esp considering it is a std issue sidearm. Also fully agree with Ken concerning barrel length; for me 3" and 5" are the best from J frame to N.
Two amazing guns and two amazing guys, thanks!
Out of my price range but have been eyeing the M73 Manhurin
You might have already seen this video review on it. ua-cam.com/video/bcQmReWckNk/v-deo.html
I have been wanting to get my hands on the Mr-73 I believe Beretta just started importing!
Me too. My collection of .357s is screaming for one.
They are made of Unobtainium.
Great idea for a video. What would Bill steal from Ken’s safe and what would Ken steal from Bill’s safe. Top five of each.
In the modern era... I would say a S&W 686 is the sweet spot for awesome vs cost!
Going to keep the Model 15. Until I die, probably.
But then there's the Manurhin MR73, and there will never be a 357magnum on the planet that will top that.
I like it, two guys and thier best revolvers. I had a Colt Python 1970s vintage, best revolver I ever had. It went back to the original owner....my brother. I replaced it with a Colt New Service in 44 S&W.
When the Colt Python out it was issued to a special operations & guerilla group as part of the survival kit. That, and Puma Knife Company "White Hunter" fixed bladed knife. Dear old dad loved his. It was never more than 100 men World Wide through the 1950's through the '70's. It was in the most secret inner sanctum of the CIA.
Great Conversation
Both great revolvers. I have two Colt Officer's Model Match .38 revolvers. The later version of the Colt Shooting Master. The main difference is the rear sight which is adjustable for both windage and elevation. It also has the wider trigger and hammer spur, the same as used on the Python.
That said, I am a S&W collector and fan at heart, but Colt made some incredible revolvers also. The OMM revolvers I have are the most accurate handguns I have ever fired...and I am old, so that's sayin' something.
I bought the S&W Model 19 Carry Comp revolver, and looking it over I noticed the finish on the inside front of the cylinder appeared to have rubbed off. Naturally I sent it back to S&W for refinishing. OK so after it returns every things looks good and so it’s off to the range. Only shot one box, 50 rounds, of 38s but once back home I noticed the finish on the inside front cylinder as well as on the frame just in front of the cylinder had burned off. Today I’ve sent it back to S&W yet AGAIN for the same issue. I’m very disappointed in their “quality control”, this is not something you’d expect from their Performance Center division.
Both companies turned out beautiful handguns.
Ed mcgivern is jerry miculeks idol. When he did his revolver records he was trying to match or beat mcgivern records.
Edward McGivern did very impressive work with the Registered Magnum, even shooting out at 600 yards. He wrote a book, Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting. He once used Colt SAAs then switched to S&W DAs.
What colt is doing right now with the new pythons is actually pretty incredible. The first year of production they were pretty crappy but now they're incredible. The new pythons are not hand fitted because the cnc machines can hold .0005" tolerances!
Hard to beat an N frame.
The one nice thing about colt shooting masters is their relatively unknown to the average consumer. Everyone jumps on the Registered magnum making them almost double the cost of most shooting masters. Recently saw a mint 45 colt shooting master , with letter and original box sell for 3000 while a registered magnum with no original box and only a factory letter sold for close to 12,000
Thanks for the revolver video. I own and shoot a lot of firearms (revolvers & semi's) and I absolutely love revolvers - both Colt & S&W. The craftsmanship of these firearms amazes me. And I'm good enough with them to keep you behind a tree beyond even 100-yds. BTW, Ed McGivern is THE MAN. And the two of you aren't far behind.
Would love to watch Ken and Bill sit down and discuss after shooting a French Manurhin MR73 and a German Korth.
The Manurhin MR73 357 Magnum is not a work of art, but it is the Mike Tyson of revolvers. It is a beast of a revolver that was forged for battle. It will outlive it's owners and then some.
Nice video, but should have focused the picture on the revolvers close up rather than looking mostly at these guys. A question: how does the Masterpiece series fit in here? is it like the Python and the Diamondback. How do these compare?
I have a model 27-2 with a 5in barrel that's just one of the most beautiful guns I've ever seen and shot. Huge grips and tyler Shoe on the trigger i got it used with the box from an old gunsmith who was a family friend. Mine I think is from 57 to 58 or sround that time, how do the quality of the model 27-2s stand up to the prewar model 27s??
I honestly had never heard of these 2 revolvers, I always here about all of the Police Sidearm type of revolvers like the Model 10, Model 19, Model 36, Colt Python, Detective Special etc. The fact that such finely made pieces were built during the Great Depression is astounding. $60 for a revolver sounds funny, but ya gotta remember during the depression a car could be had for $100, that would be like a 15,000 dollar revolver today or something.
Trinitrotoluene
Yeah it's tough to still beat that old model 10 !!! I have a 1965 Model 10 5 inch standard barrel blued of course and wow it is accurate to say the least as all old school Smith's are anyway !!!
Great video. But tell us more about colt versus smith and wesson. A lot of people have the same question. Revolvers and Autos.
I love my S&W models 10 and 19 and my Colt Python
If the S&W Registered Magnum was $60 in 1937...and the S&W Model 27 is $1073.00 today, works out about the same with inflation.
The model 27 is still somewhat made today, but the safety lock kinda…makes that disappointing?
But you still got more for your money back then. The newer guns don't even _remotely_ compare in terms of finish. A lot more skilled labor went into finish and polishing on the older guns. It still does on the Manhurin MR73 (albeit using some modern production methods not available in the old days) and the finish on them can compare to prewar S&Ws and Colts. But that's one of the reasons why you'll pay over 3 grand for a Manhurin. That kind of skilled labor costs.
6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
You can tell Bill just wants to bludgeon Ken with his Smith
I mean NO disrespect here. But I’m sure I’ll get hate for this comment and here we go…. Wilson is the Rain Man of the gun world. I hope to hell he’s teaching an equally competent protégé.
Holy crap - that 44 Special Shooting Master looks new and it is so rare! 🤩 Ah at the end I figured out BOTH guns belong to Bill.
Bills got the money to afford both. Ken is of relatively average means.
I would love to have either gun they are both beautiful and absolute wonderful craftsmanship.
For me, the Holy Grail of revolvers is the pre-70s Colt Python.
Other than that, I love a tuned GP-100.
Keep in mind...The RM is not a really target revolver...the Shooting Master is.
The best guns were made during the depression time ( cars tools exetera) companies had to let go most of the workers and kept the best ones they give them all the time they needed to work and build the products so the results - the best quality guns ,cars, exetera exetera.
I’m about to buy a Colt Official police in .38 special made in 1952 very good condition
Going to be my first double action revolver/ Colt firearm
I have a 1955 made 5", hard to beat the bank vault lock system
Thanks
I’ve got to give the nod to Ken on the S&W Registered Magnum , as well as other company works from the time.
Thank you again
What I found amazing is the weight of the Colt Police Positive Special 4 inch in 38 special compared to the Smith&Wesson mod 10 4 inch 34 oz , the Colt only weight 22oz as all steel revolver and still lighter that the S&W aluminium framed version of the mod 10 the mod 12. So I think the S&W mod 10 is quite overbuild for .38 special.
There is a simple solution to this dilemma: buy both. And for you spouses out there, the very best and brightest of you will completely understand the absolute NEED for this, and fully support your other half in this endeavor.
Great Information Gentlemen As Always.
Triple Lock .44 Spl
Gen. George S. Patton carried at S&W registered 357 magnum...
I’ve got to go with the S&W out of these two because exposed ejector rods makes me nervous.
And the ass backward cylinder latch of the Colt as well
Beautiful revolvers especially the smith
*I'll take the S&W*
I would compared the S&W Triple Lock Target against the Colt Shooting master, I think they would be more comparable each other.
The New Service is probably my favorite Colt revolver. I've only seen a handful of Shooting Masters, and never a .44 Special. I love the simple, yet rugged way Colt made a drift-adjustable rear sight screw adjustable.
Smith is still just a better design
Great show! Lucky guys.
Where’s your Manhurin MR-73? 😉
I wonder if they would make a publication on a svi infinity pistol . That would be neat .
I own a pre war Colt New Service in 45 Colt. Made in 1931. The quality and craftsmanship is evident. Forged, not cast and the parts hand-fitted. I’d love a registered magnum, but wow $$$$$!!
I have a fixation on the s&w 32/38DA's, and the s&w .32 hand ejector models. I have a brace of 1910 dated '03 .32HE's in .32 s&w long that I trick shoot with, the old production S&Ws are masterfully crafted shootin irons but .32 long is like supernaturally accurate.
Would love to get their opinion of the Jokers custom Smith and Wesson model 15-3 (21 inch barrel) used to shoot down the Batwing.
Ken is right.
Very educational. Thx
They are pros for sure. Still I was uncomfortable they didn't swing out both cylinders first thing. :)
I have a colt pocket positive in 32 sw long it was carried by a 2 great uncle who worked for the Baltimore and Ohio railroad from the 1910s to 1940. It has a checkered hammer. Interestingly the barrel is slightly bent out of verticle. Was it used aws a blunt instrument qwith an unruly person.
Now you need to do a Smith and Wesson vs Colt Revolvers that are available.
Colts are for collectors, Smiths are for shooters.
A lot of truth in that statement but I do enjoy shooting my customized Bob Munden Colt 45 SAA from time to time even though the ammo is crazy high these days but I'm well stocked up on it for now and wow what a shooter it is !!!!
Would love to own Colt but they are so expensive.
The Colt Official police and Police positive are relatively cheap (between 300-600) mind you these guns where made with good Standard Colt quality and they were standard Police sidearms from the beginning of the 20th century until the end of 1960’s when Smith and Wesson was taking over the LEO markets but they still solider on until LEO agencies started the transition from Revolvers to Semi-autos from the late 80’s early 90’s
Colt Police Positive:
Barrel lengths
2.5 in (63.5 mm)
4 in (102 mm)
5 in (125 mm)
6 in (153 mm)
Cartridges
.32 Long/Short Colt
.32 Colt New Police (.32 S&W Long)
.38 Colt New Police (.38 S&W)
.32-20 Winchester ("Special" variant)
.38 Special ("Special" variant)
.22 S/L/LR
Colt Official Police:
Barrel lengths
4 in (102 mm)
5 in (127 mm)
6 in (153 mm)
Cartridges
.22 Long Rifle
.32-20
.38 Special
.38/200
.41 Long Colt
As AD Ray suggested, it’s still possibly to find decently priced Colts. I’m a fan of the Colt Positive Police in .38 Spl with a 4” bbl. I own a 1912 specimen, but would like to acquire a 1960s iteration of the gun as the grips are fuller and with checkering.
I own many striker fired pistols.
Just getting into revolvers and absolutely live them and see the purpose for having a powerful revolver as I spend a lot of time in the wilderness.
Thanks for reply and details on some of these revolvers.
Yeah I checked some sites and these specific police ones can be found for under $600 but limited.
I am trying to get 357 magnum and those like Colt Python and king Cobra are expensive.)
Will probably settle for S&W or Ruger.
Question: Bill mentions the Colt can't be dry-fired because it is in .44 special.Why is this?Or did I misunderstand?
Because the gun is a collector's piece. Dry firing can wear the trigger pieces and, in extreme cases, can damage it. Best not to risk it.
Plus if it’s a rare piece I wouldn’t want to have not just the value but this history surrounding is blemished also these older revolvers still retain firing pins on the hammer so you got take that in consideration
Yeah, not good to chance breaking a 1930’s collectors piece worth probably 20,000 dollars.
And here I am, wanting a Ruger Vaquero .357 like some kind of caveman.
If you look closely you can see the original hieroglyphics on the frame of the colt.
To get an idea of what $60.00 meant in America prior to WWII, you have to consider that our dollar was tied to gold and silver. A dollar was still a measure of silver, the amount of which is today worth about $23.00. So multiply that by 60, and you get what the Registered Magnum would cost today, were they still making them like they did then, i.e., $1,380.00. Sounds about right for what is essentially a handmade revolver, made from milled, tool steel, parts, which was then finely hand polished, and blued.
Great, just great! Pull out a "shooter" of those two pistols (if anyone has one or you have one) and take us to the range with them is that is possible? Maybe run a "modern" revolver drill of some kind with each of you using your pistol...? Maybe that would be fun?
Nothing like early, American made, hand-fitted firearms.
Good to see real guns ( Wheel guns are real guns! :-) ) on a video on You Tube. Both are great examples of a handgun. I would gladly have either if a rich relative gifted me, but I have always favored the S & W because of the cylinder release. The Colt cylinder release ( after twelve rounds ) leaves a deep red mark on my thumb.
I have several "American Riflemen" magazines from the 1930's and 1940's and the Colt .38 Special Officers Match revolver ( cousin to the Colt in the video ) was the big winner at shooting matches all around the U.S.A.. Often there are 2 page ads showing the winning teams. Often the L.A.P.D. team, The Detroit P.D. team and the U.S. Border Patrol teams were the top scorers, & individual high score shooters and the ammo they used. And,,,, they used one hand --- hence the name Handgun.
{ Hard to fathom anyone giving this video a "Thumbs Down". Must be plastic 9 boys. }
Mr. Ken, I well remember Colt ruining their action when they came out with the short action in the Colt Trooper. Such a shame!
KnifeMaker
I'd have to agree with Ken on this one.
How about S&W vs. Ruger?
Either One Is A Stark Reminder Of How Far The USA Has Gone To Hell In A Hand Basket! NEVER EVER To Regain This Once Superiority Of Know How And Prowess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For vintage, I love both ! For new production i prefer Colt... but a Smith can be perfect with a little customizatiom work..... ( in first install thin panel grips like area of registered magnum..... enormous elephant envelloping grips on a K -Frame is so Ugly)
Great video guys!
Thanks for watching
Does my original early issue S&W Triple Lock beat these two guns?
Riveting Fellas...Riveting!
I am more with Hackarthon opinion, but I think the Century Triple lock was the best in S&W linage
According to the "Standard Catalogue of Smith & Wesson" (4th edition, 2016) by Jim Supica and Richard Nahas, the S & W Registered Magnum in excellent condition was worth $7,000. In Exc+ condition = $11,000 and in ANIB condition = $18,000. I would guess that five years later the prices are at least 25% higher, imo.
Of course 27 28 are the best 357...
What about buying new, S&W or Colt?
Only colts revolvers I use are single actions, I am a smith man, I have a old 38/44 outdoorsman made in 37 probably closest I'll get to reg maggie. Did have a police postive target 32long that I shot and thought alot of but traded it off now have a regulation police smith 32long I use as a small game getter.
What about Manurhin, fellas?
That was great!