This video is a great example of why I love this channel. I hate the explanation "use copper because it works". I need more than that to dispell that feeling of witchcraft and old-wives tales. 🤣
I love that there is a more science based reason to add copper. The old timers had it right, amazing! Love the video, thank you. I will be back for more.
Thankyou. Finally some science to what I have always suspected. Particularly with regard to the effect of copper in the boiler. I have always used stainless steel boilers, I will be adding copper from now on.
I find your information and barley and hops with George information the best out of all of the UA-camrs I have seen I have a 4 inch bubble plate and I have copper bubble plates and a copper main condenser above the plates the rest is stainless so I'm hoping that's more than enough copper thanks for all your information keep up the good work
Ive always thought putting some copper mesh in the vapour path is the most sensible solution. Means you need very little copper due to its much higher surface area, is easy to replace and the reactions probably occur in the gas phase. Looks like other methods are effective as well but Ill keep doing it this way I guess.
I have a stainless steel boiler, but have copper mesh and a copper column for my reflux still. I'm going to add some copper paddles to the boiler just for good measure, I just hope it's not going to be detrimental to the boiler having them in the wash floating around freely.
After watching this video I add rolls of copper mesh to my stainless boiler for my spirit runs. It is so good I do not have to charcoal filter my neutral spirits anymore. The copper does take quite a beating though as far as patina and will need cleaning in between runs to recharge. Small price to pay for not having to dilute and filter as I can now store at 190+
i tried layers of the stuff in the reflux column (i use a packed column) and was shockwd after 1 use it was heavily patinad, i thought I'd been scammed and it was just a coating. Now i use tiny copper balls in a muslin bag.
Great video once again. Thanks! So if you have a copper condenser, this study is actually strong reason for doing separate stripping and spirit runs. Even if you don't do them for any of the other valid reasons, they would help massively in reducing off flavors due to DMTS. Fascinating stuff.
Thank you! I actually calculatet the need for copper in my still based of area of contact and hours of contact and total volume of alcohol. I roughly calcullated inside area of my new still collumn in proportion to my last one and concluded i will need some copper packing.
Hi sir ,amazing your channel is .!! So my question is do you just throw those copper pieces in the pot during distilling?? And do you clean those pieces after the run or do you use new pieces?? Me I have stainless too and my collumn packed with copper mesh and copper pennies,never heard filling the pot with copper. its an eye-opener ... Thanks for this sir...
I run with a electric element do you think if I put the copper in my kettle I could have a problem with the element . I have just found your channel I do most appreciate your work thanks
I don't know if you took any chemistry in school. The Coles/Cliff notes version is this. It's a good catalyst because it's a transition metal which means the electrons in its 2 outer electron-shells (orbits) can be donated/accepted easily, which helps facilitate reactions.
@@StillBehindTheBench Thanks man. I now understand. I read a lot about chemistry did a bit in high school. Just wanna get to the in depth and science behind distilling before I commit myself. Would like to make something that I could be relatively proud of, and not make me or my loved ones cringe or worse sick. 👍🍻
Why do you crush the 3/4” copper pipe pieces that you put into the boiler? To keep below the elements? Also, do you know how noticeable the taste/smell was between the 2 and if so how much?
I am trying to sort out what you are saying and it seems like you are saying if you have a SS pot still and you were going to add copper it would be best to have a copper pot. If you cannot make that change would adding copper fittings into your pot to heat with your mash would that help? Thanks for the info.
I have a stainless steel pot, and what I did was just buy some copper pipe, and cut it up, dropped those pieces into the pot. I also use a small amount of copper scrubber in between the pot and the column, to react with the vapour passing through it, regardless of whether I am using the still as a pot still or a column still.
@@StillBehindTheBench I just watched this again and have another question. I have added 20 copper elbow fittings into my boiler pot. I have used copper mesh in my column but don't always want that reflux action. I have a piece of copper pipe that is as long as my column (only 7inches or so) and another piece of copper over that one but smashed down in an elliptical shape so that I have vapor path in the inner pipe, between the two pipes and on the outside between the stainless and larger elliptical shaped pipe. Between that and the 20 pieces in my boiler is that enough copper to accomplish what we desire? 8 gallon pot and a SS condenser that looks just like your drawing. Thanks for your videos.
Hi Adam, great video as always. This turns things upside down for me as I thought copper was a myth of the distilling industry. So I need to reconsider my view. One question though. How are these sulfur compounds created and why? Is it actually a result of a poor fermentation process either due to wrong ph, wrong fermentation temperature, etc? I mean if the fermentation process is well controlled maybe these sulfur compounds are not created in the first place?
Great question. Sulfur is a required nutrient for yeast (in the form of sulfate or sulfite), and really all living organisms to function. This is because 2 of the essential amino acids (amino acids are the building blocks of proteins), Methionine and Cysteine, both have sulfur in them. All proteins have methionine in them, at least initially, so it's a very important amino acid. AFAIK, the exact method of DMTS production isn't known, but one possible/suspected avenue is that after a yeast cell dies, it undergoes lysis (breaking apart), free methionine amino acids are released either directly, or as the result of other organisms releasing enzymes to break down proteins. The other organisms present in the mash will start consuming these amino acids, and metabolising them, and it's thought that yeast metabolism through a methionine salvage pathway, is one way how DMTS gets created, either intentionally or as a byproduct. There is a study called "Yeast cell lysis enhances dimethyl trisulfide formation in sake" that shows how in the wort itself, there are enzymes turning methionine into DMTS precursors. They also reference a study called "Formation of volatile sulfur compounds and metabolism of methionine and other sulfur compounds in fermented food" which showed that DMTS is produced in cheese from enzymatic reactions. So the presence of these sulfur compounds is a naturally occurring thing. There really isn't much we can do to prevent their presence in the wash. It seems that simply having bare metal copper present is enough to alleviate the issue. I imagine there might be a way to treat the wort chemically, or with enzymes, to deal with these sulfur compounds, but that would probably end up being very expensive and time consuming compared to just using some copper in the still.
@@StillBehindTheBench so if the creation of the sulfur compounds is in the metabolic pathway that takes place during the fermentation process then it affects not only whiskey (which this study is about) but all spirits that are created by fermenting sugars like rum, fruit brandies even a simple sugar wash, as well as wines and meads. The copper presence looks much more needed than I thought. Thanks for bringing it up and explaining it in detail.
thanks for sharing this research!
This video is a great example of why I love this channel. I hate the explanation "use copper because it works". I need more than that to dispell that feeling of witchcraft and old-wives tales.
🤣
I love that there is a more science based reason to add copper. The old timers had it right, amazing! Love the video, thank you. I will be back for more.
Thankyou. Finally some science to what I have always suspected. Particularly with regard to the effect of copper in the boiler. I have always used stainless steel boilers, I will be adding copper from now on.
I will be adding copper to my boiler as well.
Fascinating study. Thanks you, Adam! Long time no see, I hope you are well.
I find your information and barley and hops with George information the best out of all of the UA-camrs I have seen I have a 4 inch bubble plate and I have copper bubble plates and a copper main condenser above the plates the rest is stainless so I'm hoping that's more than enough copper thanks for all your information keep up the good work
Great information.Keep it up.
Great video thanks for sharing
Watched a few videos before this one. Love the content. Subscribed
Ive always thought putting some copper mesh in the vapour path is the most sensible solution. Means you need very little copper due to its much higher surface area, is easy to replace and the reactions probably occur in the gas phase. Looks like other methods are effective as well but Ill keep doing it this way I guess.
It Works!
Awesome video. I was starting to think that the copper was a myth. Time for me to add some into the boiler.
Very educational. Thank you! I have an all SS still. I do put copper mesh in my column and slobber box.
I'm glad someone is helping with more documented evidence. Amazing content! Thanks for that. Do you have a patreon page?
I do have a patreon page. You'll see me reference it in later videos. www.patreon.com/stillbehindthebench
I have a stainless steel boiler, but have copper mesh and a copper column for my reflux still. I'm going to add some copper paddles to the boiler just for good measure, I just hope it's not going to be detrimental to the boiler having them in the wash floating around freely.
After watching this video I add rolls of copper mesh to my stainless boiler for my spirit runs. It is so good I do not have to charcoal filter my neutral spirits anymore. The copper does take quite a beating though as far as patina and will need cleaning in between runs to recharge. Small price to pay for not having to dilute and filter as I can now store at 190+
i tried layers of the stuff in the reflux column (i use a packed column) and was shockwd after 1 use it was heavily patinad, i thought I'd been scammed and it was just a coating. Now i use tiny copper balls in a muslin bag.
Great video once again. Thanks! So if you have a copper condenser, this study is actually strong reason for doing separate stripping and spirit runs. Even if you don't do them for any of the other valid reasons, they would help massively in reducing off flavors due to DMTS. Fascinating stuff.
Im not finding examples of spirit vs wash stills. Can someone point me in the direction to see the difference in the two pls.
Thank you! I actually calculatet the need for copper in my still based of area of contact and hours of contact and total volume of alcohol. I roughly calcullated inside area of my new still collumn in proportion to my last one and concluded i will need some copper packing.
Amazing video as always brother! Keep up the good work m8!
Legend. Top notch job.
Hi sir ,amazing your channel is .!! So my question is do you just throw those copper pieces in the pot during distilling?? And do you clean those pieces after the run or do you use new pieces?? Me I have stainless too and my collumn packed with copper mesh and copper pennies,never heard filling the pot with copper. its an eye-opener ... Thanks for this sir...
I run with a electric element do you think if I put the copper in my kettle I could have a problem with the element . I have just found your channel I do most appreciate your work thanks
Best on distilling by far. But why or what is in copper that makes catalyticl? 😊
I don't know if you took any chemistry in school. The Coles/Cliff notes version is this. It's a good catalyst because it's a transition metal which means the electrons in its 2 outer electron-shells (orbits) can be donated/accepted easily, which helps facilitate reactions.
@@StillBehindTheBench Thanks man. I now understand. I read a lot about chemistry did a bit in high school. Just wanna get to the in depth and science behind distilling before I commit myself. Would like to make something that I could be relatively proud of, and not make me or my loved ones cringe or worse sick. 👍🍻
Why do you crush the 3/4” copper pipe pieces that you put into the boiler? To keep below the elements?
Also, do you know how noticeable the taste/smell was between the 2 and if so how much?
I am trying to sort out what you are saying and it seems like you are saying if you have a SS pot still and you were going to add copper it would be best to have a copper pot. If you cannot make that change would adding copper fittings into your pot to heat with your mash would that help? Thanks for the info.
I have a stainless steel pot, and what I did was just buy some copper pipe, and cut it up, dropped those pieces into the pot. I also use a small amount of copper scrubber in between the pot and the column, to react with the vapour passing through it, regardless of whether I am using the still as a pot still or a column still.
@@StillBehindTheBench I just watched this again and have another question. I have added 20 copper elbow fittings into my boiler pot. I have used copper mesh in my column but don't always want that reflux action. I have a piece of copper pipe that is as long as my column (only 7inches or so) and another piece of copper over that one but smashed down in an elliptical shape so that I have vapor path in the inner pipe, between the two pipes and on the outside between the stainless and larger elliptical shaped pipe. Between that and the 20 pieces in my boiler is that enough copper to accomplish what we desire? 8 gallon pot and a SS condenser that looks just like your drawing. Thanks for your videos.
Hi Adam, great video as always.
This turns things upside down for me as I thought copper was a myth of the distilling industry. So I need to reconsider my view. One question though. How are these sulfur compounds created and why? Is it actually a result of a poor fermentation process either due to wrong ph, wrong fermentation temperature, etc? I mean if the fermentation process is well controlled maybe these sulfur compounds are not created in the first place?
Great question. Sulfur is a required nutrient for yeast (in the form of sulfate or sulfite), and really all living organisms to function. This is because 2 of the essential amino acids (amino acids are the building blocks of proteins), Methionine and Cysteine, both have sulfur in them. All proteins have methionine in them, at least initially, so it's a very important amino acid.
AFAIK, the exact method of DMTS production isn't known, but one possible/suspected avenue is that after a yeast cell dies, it undergoes lysis (breaking apart), free methionine amino acids are released either directly, or as the result of other organisms releasing enzymes to break down proteins. The other organisms present in the mash will start consuming these amino acids, and metabolising them, and it's thought that yeast metabolism through a methionine salvage pathway, is one way how DMTS gets created, either intentionally or as a byproduct.
There is a study called "Yeast cell lysis enhances dimethyl trisulfide formation in sake" that shows how in the wort itself, there are enzymes turning methionine into DMTS precursors. They also reference a study called "Formation of volatile sulfur compounds and metabolism of methionine and other sulfur compounds in fermented food" which showed that DMTS is produced in cheese from enzymatic reactions.
So the presence of these sulfur compounds is a naturally occurring thing. There really isn't much we can do to prevent their presence in the wash. It seems that simply having bare metal copper present is enough to alleviate the issue. I imagine there might be a way to treat the wort chemically, or with enzymes, to deal with these sulfur compounds, but that would probably end up being very expensive and time consuming compared to just using some copper in the still.
@@StillBehindTheBench so if the creation of the sulfur compounds is in the metabolic pathway that takes place during the fermentation process then it affects not only whiskey (which this study is about) but all spirits that are created by fermenting sugars like rum, fruit brandies even a simple sugar wash, as well as wines and meads. The copper presence looks much more needed than I thought.
Thanks for bringing it up and explaining it in detail.
Good question👍
I have tuns of 12 gage copper wire. I believe wire is 99.9 percent…. Has anyone ever stripped the copper from wire to use it in there still?
Thanks,
I was referred to this video,
by someone in Israel...
And Subscribed...
Instantly subbed. A bibiliography. I'm fairly sure copper is only 8 or 9x better as a heat exchanger ;)
what about the unused stills copper that noob useres do a run on copper verdigris
the copper verdigris in humans