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IG361 my RO / DI Water system with storage tanks
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- Опубліковано 5 лис 2022
- Stage 1 Cation www.bulkreefsupply.com/cation...
Stage 2 Anion www.bulkreefsupply.com/anion-...
Stage 3 mixed bed amzn.to/30YLcLh
Single DI canister amzn.to/3EruKSn
Cartridge for canister amzn.to/3pMZt8n
Booster Pump: amzn.to/3kJBEeI
Reverse Osmosis System amzn.to/3B1gZYx
DI System amzn.to/3mCNk4j
The above is an affiliate link which helps to support my channel.
Awesome setup. A little pricey for my current goals. You are the first person that confirmed my plans will work. I’m planning on building a car washing cart with a 20 gallon tank sitting on top and my pressure washer on the bottom.(essentially I would be able to wheel it out of the garage to use when washing a car, and would be able to refill the 0 TDS water when not in use in the garage)
The only thing I’m considering still is wether to gravity feed my pressure washer from the 20 gallon tank OR I should I buy a cheap harbor-freight transfer pump(with standard 3/4” garden hose fittings)(not high pressure probably around 10 psi output) and just run a small 5/8” or even 3/8” inch garden hose with a standard brass shutoff valve at the end to make more of a spray effect and rinse off the car.
Both systems I would plan on just using my DI water for the final rinse only, but since watching your video and listening to say you can roughly use 40 gallons to clean 3 vehicles using DI water through the entire washing process for all 3 vehicles, it makes me wonder if I should just gravity feed my pressure washer and use the DI water for the entire process. Obviously I will run through 3x or more resin if I use it for the entire washing process.
In my opinion I would use my setup just for the final rinse to achieve a spotless, air dry finish. However in the long run I would consider spending more money on resin change outs if I believe it would be more beneficial to use my DI water throughout the whole washing process.
I hope to one day be able to make a UA-cam video out there as I’ve already spent close to a week searching for actual footage of someone using a small 100-200 GPD reverse osmosis system to feed a DI resin system for car detailing specifically.
How is your system running 8 months later? Anything you would change?
honestly its pretty great. Im sure you would be fine without a pump, many pressure washers can even lift water out of a tank or bucket (my kranzle will but so will many others). If you use a tank like mine, there is an air bladder inside, so when its full its around 40psi of pressure in there and it drops to zero when its empty. I use DI for the whole process, partially because i didnt want to mess with changing the water supply mid wash while my car is outside in the sun. Because im using a reverse osmosis system before the DI, my source water to the resin is like 9 tds, so the resin lasts forever.
If i was doing it again.. I probably would do an atmospheric tank instead of a pressurized one (like those white tanks you see at tractor supply). Then i wouldn't be wasting space with air storage, and i would have a better visual indicator of when im running low on water. Im interested in playing with a permeate pump to see if i can get better efficiency and less waste water, but i honestly dont know how that will work out. I do 3 cars a week atleast and the system works really well.
Great Video, well done. Glad I don't have these water issues in my current location.
Very creative setup. I can see how this fits a high PPM use case.
Where I live 45 minutes north of Disney I have good water . I have a triple filter system on it where the water comes in the house . I may add a water softener as I think I c some hardness . 👍
Good system design & explanation. Your Hague softener is an ion exchange unit that removes calcium carbonate & magnesium carbonate. Softeners don't generally do much to reduce sediment, so the sediment pre-filter on your RO system is really important. Usually, they are 5 micron & serve to keep sediment out of your carbon bed & most importantly, off the surfaces of your RO membranes.
Your carbon filter serves to eliminate chlorine from your membrane & also reduce the organic load on the RO membrane. They are commonly sintered carbon block, and if yours is that style, you could increase flowrate by changing to granulated activated carbon. Your RO membranes reject any organics greater than 200 molecular weight, so anything sneaking thru isn't a big problem. Because the carbon is ahead of the RO, that tells me that your membranes are cellulose acetate, which are damaged by chlorine. If you were to change your carbon filter more frequently, you might extend the life of your RO membranes substantially. The creep in effluent TDS could be largely due to chlorine breakthru on your carbon, which causes pinholes in the membrane. If the manufacturer offers cellulose tri-acetate RO membranes, you could eliminate the carbon or plumb it to the effluent line of the RO to serve as a polisher before the DI treatment train.
Your RO membranes are likely spiral wound construction and by operating in parallel, you're getting faster flow for that design. You could also extend the life of your RO membranes by flushing them with purified water periodically. That's how the Kinetico RO unit is designed (I'm a former engineer with them & worked on that design). The Kinetico membranes can last 10 years or more - largely due to the pure water rinse & the shut-off features.
If you were to operate your RO membranes in series, you might get improved TDS reduction, but you'd likely have a lower production rate. Series operation would preserve your DI resin. If you were to change to a hollow fiber design for your RO membranes & pair them with GAC, you would be able to increase flow rates & possibly eliminate your storage tanks.
Your DI resin set-up is very, very smart. By setting up series flow & using the mixed bed as a final polisher, you are conserving resin. Obviously, the negatively charged molecules in your water are higher than your positively charged ions, because your anion resin bed is used up faster. Have you tried putting the anion bed ahead of the cation bed in your DI treatment train? If you wanted to, you could buy a longer cartridge for your anion bed & change it less frequently.
Nice job on your system!
This is such a great comment, I really appreciate the time and thoughtfulness.
Currently, my sediment filters are both 1 micron CTO Carbon / Sediment Filters, they are a little more expensive than the sediment filters alone but i felt it could help with chlorine removal. Ill look into the granular activated carbon options, i use a bag of activated carbon in the sump of my aquarium, so I'm familiar with that type of medium.
I assumed the creep was due to the water pulling solids from the tanks or piping, and it wicking back to my TDS meter, interesting though on the carbon filters, ill take note next time i swap them and see how its impacted.
My RO Membranes are Membrane Solutions 150GPD units that are supposed to be 0.1nm, like you mentioned i run them in parallel to get the "300GPD rating". There is a flush valve that i can open which basically allows the source water to rinse the membrane and dump out the waste valve, its not purified water, but its my only way of "rinsing" the filters in the current configuration. I do that once a month for 30 seconds or so, im unsure of the effectiveness, I dont see much change on the TDS meters after doing it. Ill look into hollow fiber options.
ive never tried switching the cation and anion positions in the chain. When i was researching going from mixed bed to two separate resins, i came across this video from bulk reef supply (aquarium) ua-cam.com/video/NVlS_1-ljX8/v-deo.html and in that video they suggested you would always want to run cation before anion because of the types of charges the resins are designed to stop, and honestly i never questioned them. I likely will go to a larger canister when i end up needing to buy parts (failure of canister or filter).
Finally, one of my friends owns the local hague water and he mentioned trying a permeate pump that is fed by my waste water to help the system be more efficient, and negate the need for the booster pump. He suggested that i would need to drop down to a single 75GPD RO filter to accommodate, so i haven't tried it yet. Do you have any experience with a permeate pump in this type of setup?
thanks again
Jeff
I spoke to Pure Water Products LLC today about a permeate pump but they said since I'm not using a pressurized storage tank it wouldn't do any good as the pump works with the pressure in the RO tanks. He recommended a 75GPD water saving membrane on the RO system that would help on water waste. This stuff is so confusing.@@improvedgarage
yea the permeate pump is only if you have a pressurized vessel youre trying to fill. let me know how it works out, most of this stuff is modular so you can always add another membrane, or a booster pump, etc. @@MercedesMechanic
@@improvedgarage you said you have 45psi on the output side of your RO unit... I run a amazon prime special RO unit in our house, when the flow is unrestricted. like filling a 5 gallon bucket (tap open/after the storage bladder tank is empty) the best I've measured it at is about 7ppm... I start out with (softened) hard municipal water as well (mostly calcium).
I am about to do the same set up. Except I will have two seperate storage tanks. One for RO to refill my bottles instead of going to the store. I dont want a seperate system under the sink. I am a renter too. The second for DI to wash cars. I DETAIL for friends and family besides my own. The waste water eventually will go in a seperate tank to water the landscape. Like your set up. I have a salt syatem in place but not in use. I may now consider getting that going too. Thanks.
Thanks for checking it out. Im honestly looking for a wall mount water bottle filler that i could put in between the RO and the DI. I can use a check valve to keep the DI from backflowing. I cant find one that looks good however.
Bro, you can regenerate that DI resin and not spend $300/year on it. Its quite easy, especially if the resins are separated (also doable for mixed resin). Tons of vids on youtube.
ill look into it, thanks!
Great job. Great video. Going to do the same system. But thinking of having a tank of drinking water after the osmosis system and before the di system. And a tank after the di system for washing cars. How do you set up the connection to the tanks?? Not sure exactly which connections to use. Tank tee connection?? Or some other connection??
the tanks were 3/4npt, i put a 3/4 TEE in for the garden hose and on the other side of the tee i used one of these amzn.to/3OhBqtQ and one of these amzn.to/44NKPyU. I hope that helps.
well explained. I was wondering if you or your wife can tell the difference between vehicles washed with 7ppm TDS RO water vs 0ppm TDS DI/RO water.... if both vehicles were air dryed.
Most likely not. Originally I did DI for my aquarium. The ro only is probably fine
In hindsight, would you change anything? I will building mine soon. Using yours as a template to work off of. I have an active 2.0. I will likely use a plastic storage tank with a ball float valve. Will I need a pump to get the water to the Active or will it draw. How can you tell if a pressure washer can draw water from a storage tank. Thanks for your time
in hindsight i would probably do an atmospheric tank with a float valve, to eliminate back pressure on the RO and increase the fill speed, like what you are describing. I may try a
in actives video here: ua-cam.com/video/JjSE6A7kcCw/v-deo.html they say that it needs standard inlet pressure.
Kranzle in their manual says my K1322 can draw water up to 1M from a tank, because it has a self priming pump. They state not to use a pump on the water inlet.
AR and Karcher both state they cannot draw from a tank in their manuals.
How did you get a hose adapter on those osmosis tanks / can you drop the link for the tanks ? Thank you
The tanks are 3/4 NPT, i converted that to a 3/4 nipple and used a 3/4 rubber hose. Then on the other end of the hose i have a nipple to 3/4 NPT and then to a garden hose adapter. here is the tank: www.lowes.com/pd/A-O-Smith-20-Gallon-Vertical-Pressure-Tank/1000565619
check this video here: its an old one and not the best quality but i talk about alot of this there: ua-cam.com/video/T-HhMmlIucI/v-deo.html
Could you give us a entire parts list? My area has 500+ppm water...
sure
you start with a standard garden hose spigot
then Reverse Osmosis System amzn.to/3B1gZYx
then DI System amzn.to/3mCNk4j
I added an extra canister to the DI so that I could separate cation and anion: amzn.to/3EruKSn
I also added a booster pump to keep the pressure high: amzn.to/3kJBEeI
these are the DI resins:
Stage 1 Cation www.bulkreefsupply.com/cation-single-bed-color-changing-bulk-deionization-resin-brs.html
Stage 2 Anion www.bulkreefsupply.com/anion-single-bed-color-changing-bulk-deionization-resin-brs.html
Stage 3 mixed bed amzn.to/30YLcLh
You then need a tank to store water, and there are options. Either buy a pressure tank like I did from Lowes or Home Depot, or you can get an atmospheric tank (those white plastic ones) from somewhere like tractor supply. both of these options have positives and negatives, the pressure tank won't you use the entire capacity. I have a 35 gallon tank and can only store about 25g of water in it because of the air pressure in the tank, but I don't need any sort of helper pump to feed my pressure washer.
an Atmospheric tank will let you use the whole capacity, but you need to have a float to shut off the fill, and if you don't have an AR630 or Kranzle you will need a helper pump to feed the pressure washer.
I hope this helps, if you ask follow-up questions ill watch for them and respond.
How long will it last if I only have a ro/di system? If I use it for the entire wash process? Also I have 50 tank resin
Im not exactly sure what you're asking. If you have an RO/DI without a tank? you would need a massive RO/DI system to have enough flow to support your pressure washer without a tank.
As far as how long it lasts, i can get like 50 cars before i have to replace my Anion resin. Cation lasts somewhere around 150 cars. I only need to replace the mixed bed if i let the other two go bad. I use DI water for the whole wash process.
Is it really necessary to send 7 TDS water through the DI setup just to get spot free water? Wouldn't the RO set up be enough to make final rinse water spot free? I rinse two cars twice per week to get the dust off. Then after I wash the cars once per month with my Kranzle and soap I do a final spot free rinse. What would you recommend I get to build a set up for just spot free rinse? I'm thinking maybe the RO system and a storage tank with a 2-3 gallon per minute pump to feed my water hose. Would that do it?
There are a few parts to this question ill try and break down.
7TDS would be fine for a spot free rinse, especially if you are using a drying aid or towel drying. The issue with RO only is that the system will "creep" while not in use. For example when i first turn on my RO, the water will be 200TDS+ and after about 30 seconds or so it will drop down to around 13TDS and then go down to around 7 after a bit. The longer the system runs the more efficient it gets. DI on the other hand always does zero, from the moment you turn it on. So if you do RO only you would need a way to "throw away" the first gallon or so that comes out of the filter to not contaminate your tank.
I think personally i would try a rinseless wash product. If you washed the car like normal and then did your rinse using a rinseless car wash the rinseless would neutralize the contaminates and wouldn't leave anything behind in most cases. I like DIY Detail rinseless, or P and S absolute if i want to leave a little protection behind.
Well I was thinking about a 55 gallon holding tank to store RO water and then turn on a pump thats connected to my water hose that pulls from the tank to rinse the car off. However I need to figure out a float device that will turn the RO on and off as the tank water gets used. But you are saying the first gallon into my 55 gallon tank will have a lot of TDS, is that correct. For the last 4 years I've had two large DI tanks from Puretec for a rental of $30 a month but they just doubled that price to encourage residential customers to cancel the service, guess it was not profitable for them. So I now need another way but my budget is around $500-$700 or so. I would think that a little TDS blended in with 55 gallons of water wouldn't be too awful, but I could be wrong.@@improvedgarage
youre probably right on the TDS, especially if you let it get low and just run until it filled., they make a float that can be used for barrels if the top is removable amzn.to/3ThmTRM maybe that helps?@@MercedesMechanic
So what about your TDS meter, do you like that one or have you found after a year and half you'd prefer a different one? Not sure how those work, where I'd put it but I would like to know the TDS at all times. I found Pure Water Products LLC for an RO system but I'm still shopping around, the RO business is crazy online, so many different ones to choose from. Pure Water Products LLC told me they would put a DI cartridge on the RO system for me so I wouldn't have to mess with the beads. But I'm kind of thinking of getting a CR Spotless to place after the RO as I pull the water from my storage tank after hearing what you're spending a year on the beads. @@improvedgarage
Hide that clutter behind the filters. Cool setup but looks way to cluttery. Hide all the clutter and it would look. Super clean and waaaaaay overkil. Just use 1 DI 20lb and replace once a year. Maybe 1 small carbon to remove chlorine
Thanks for watching. I would blow through a 20lb DI tank in less than 90 days with as bad as my source water is, i used to go through around 7 pounds a month before the RO.
Ideally i would get a higher flowing RO unit and then i would be able to go to a single DI tank without needing to store the water
His TDS is 400, which is very high. His setup makes perfect sense.
Back up there chief. You lease a whole house water softener for $75 a month? You can buy a 48-64k for about $6-700 and take it with you if you decide to future horrible financial decisions like rent another house. So you pay $900 a year for a water softener and then buy/build that rig? Where, in the GDF, are your priorities? Jesus!!!!! PS I bought my Aquasure whole house 48k from, you guessed it Amazon. “Local to me”😂 Bruh, a whole house water softener does NOOOOOT cost $6000. 😂 Why would even consider someone coming to measure your water quality and “adjust” for hardness. Just get a jar of test strips and adjust your regeneration time to accommodate. You take a test just before regeneration to determine at what gallon usage to start regeneration and besides, even if the city water varies in harness a day or two isn’t going to make a difference. And for the love of God why do you need 40 gallons of 0ppm? You only need at max 5 gal for foaming and final rinse. And be honest, with RO waste water that’s 180 gallons which is stupid to stress your sediment, carbon, RO and RI filter unnecessarily. Why???
Hey, thanks for the time to watch and comment on this old video. I actually installed an aquasure last year and did a whole video on it.
The choice to do the whole wash process with di is one that I made after a lot of testing, is it overkill? Probably. But I use hardly any resin, and my waste is 1:1 with product water.
I can wash a whole car in 15 gallons or less, and not having to mess with it is worth it to me.
My ro by itself produces product water with single digit tds, I use a 3 stage di and use anion much faster than cation.
I store 40 gallons to wash 3 cars in one day without worrying about running out.
No idea where you’re getting your 180 gallon number from, my waste isn’t even close to that.
@@improvedgarage It’s a very basic calculation. Considering optimal water temperature an RO membrane processes water at 1:3.5. Combined is 4.5 as gallons which multiplied by 40 is 180. Your waste is 140 gallons which indeed, is close to that. Again why are you using 40 gallons to wash even 3 cars? You don’t need 0ppm for the whole wash cycle just maybe for foam if your tap is high on ppm and obviously rinse. Even then I can foam twice and rinse my Grand Cherokee with 5 gallons using my PW at ~2gpm. So seriously, why do you need 40 gallons to wash 3 cars? You say you go through $300 in resin a year with an RO/DI system. How is that even possible mathematically? Even someone with a DI only system like CR spotless couldn’t do that in a year with 400ppm tap and 2 cars washing once a week.
@@JohannGambolputty22
In my previous response I stated my waste to product is 1:1, my system has a flow restrictor. Im not using 180 gallons of water to make 40.
Like i said right in the beginning of the video, I originally built this system to service my aquarium, a 20% water change on a 180 gallon aquarium is 36 gallons.
Im not using every drop of 40 gallons to wash three cars, but if I only had one tank, that wouldn't be enough to get through all three without waiting for the system to regenerate.
The water usage isn't just from the pressure washer, its also the bucket filler, bottle dilutions, etc
I have no desire to switch back and forth between DI and non DI while my car sits in the driveway partially washed.
An 8 pound bag of resin is 75$, I was going through 3-4 bags per year at the time of the recording, I got rid of my aquarium around Christmas time and now its less than half of that.