The Problem of Race with Glenn Loury [Bonus Episode]
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2020
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This recording was created at an event hosted by the Intercollegiate Studies Institute, that featured myself alongside Glenn Loury, who, as many of you know, is an economist at Brown University and host of the Glenn Show at Blogging Heads. I thought the conversation was a good one, so I'm releasing it as a standalone podcast. This conversation is a big picture discussion of the problem of race in America today, the narratives that compete for space in the mainstream media and the path forward.
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BOOKS BY GLENN
The Anatomy of Racial Inequality- amzn.to/2SbIudE
Race, Incarceration, and American Values-amzn.to/3n4Eeed
One by one from the inside out- amzn.to/2G6iH4o
Ethnicity, Social Mobility, and Public Policy: Comparing The USA And UK-
amzn.to/3n6Wpjvam
Behind Bars in the Land of the Free -amzn.to/34dh4d4 & MORE
#PostModernism #Politics #ColemanHughes #GlennLoury
Glenns ‘proud elder’ face is priceless.
Much love for all 😀
I no longer have parents. Can I adopt Glenn as a father figure? ❤️ I think he'd be tough love.
Haha I’ve had that same thought about him! ❤️ Glenn!
Yes
Me too!!!!
I've never had a dad nor wanted one. But it would be sick to meet any one of these people and give them a hug.
Can I get in on this too?
pls go on Joe Rogan
agree 100%
Rogan sold out sadly. Not the same pod anymore... I get that it would get him the national coverage, just dont see Rogan speaking super seriously on these topics anymore.
@@RandomAmerican23 what pressure do you feel Rogan is under?
Leon Willett feels like pressure from being under the $100M Spotify deal... he’s apologized 2x for “misinformation” about the Oregon fires. He’s seemingly avoiding certain topics on crypto, Covid, conspiracies etc in the last 6-12 months. It’s odd. And I love rogan, listened for the last 5 years
@@RandomAmerican23 thanks for your answer! I love Rogan too, it would be a huge pity if what you are saying is true.
Mr. Loury is the most young looking 70 year old man I've ever seen.
As a caucasian man id say
Black people appear younger for their age.
@@davidweisberg1297 motion lotion?
@@simonheaney8721 This very young-looking-for-her-age lady I used to work with would sometimes say of herself: Black don't crack.
Benefits of being black. Thomas Sowell is fucking 90 years old and he looks 70
black dont crack!
It's THAT bad out there Coleman. If you point out how the organization of blm, & the victim cloak of intersectionality are ultimately harmful to women and poc, you can lose long time friends out here in Los Angeles. So far my black and Latino friends have conversations & none have canceled me. But I've lost 3 close white friends who now consider me a racist. Funnily I have way way more black friends than they do, and my husband is Mexican, so it's a completely bad faith accusation. I hate racism.
Don't worry. It's just our generation's version of McCarthyism or witch hunts... Stay strong... You're not a witch
Sorry you’ve had to go through that. It’s unfortunate that living in truth and rationality will cost you relationships. Take solace in knowing you’re probably better off without those friends
Being called a 'Racist" is a badge of honor. It just means you're honest and thinking.
Absolutely me too. I’m done w these white kids who are pretend social justice warriors.
@@KTravRuNEr is it cyclical in that if a civil/race war were to break out, it's (some) dems once again on the wrong side of the race issue, as it may have been people on the right 50 yrs ago
Glenn's voice has been indispensable.
Living Legend
Because you agree with him ?
@@JohnSmith-hs1hn Where are you going with that? Agreeing doesn't presuppose blind devotion.
@@bmdecker93 No one said anything about blind devotion. He loves him because they share the same dogma, not because Glen is saying anything pertinent.
@@JohnSmith-hs1hn Just because I happen to agree with him, doesn't mean he isn't saying anything pertinent, either.
My wife works for a university where her colleague added to her syllabus a disclaimer that no topics arguing "against" BLM/systemic racism would be allowed. My wife, a lifelong liberal, was afraid to even question it for fear of being labeled a racist. 2 weeks later, a student reported the syllabus to the media and the university had to issue an apology reaffirming their commitment to the 1st amendment. A small victory, but the groupthink at universities is alarming.
My first encounter with Coleman Hughes was at Monterey Jazz Fest in 2014. We were in different Jazz combos who had been selected to compete. I just remember this dude being extremely impressive on the trombone. So much so that I looked him up afterward and periodically ever since then. Then, around maybe 2017 around the time of his Dave Rubin interview I looked him up to see all the great political and philosophical content he's put out. I guess we share some of the same interests. I truly admire the intellect of this guy.
Maturity, common-sense and critical thinking is so rare these days that it is like a breath of fresh air to hear it.
Coleman needs to go on Joe Rogan. Pretty sure Sam could reach out for him.
Pretty sure Coleman is a member in good standing of the IDW. Time will have Coleman make all the rounds.
Joe already knows of Coleman. Joe referenced him on his podcast already. He’ll go on in time.
Pete Sake do you remember when Joe Rogan mentioned Coleman?
Love your podcasts Coleman! This is extremely helpful, and we need more people willing to talk about these things as you, Glenn Loury, and John Mcwhorter are willing to do!
This is what we've all been waiting for!!
Have Glenn Loury and Thomas Sowell ever had a public conversation? I can’t seem to find one and would be very interested to hear it.
@chris unguez May 2002. www.firstthings.com/article/2002/05/race-inequality-an-exchange
Close but no cigar
CRT days any organisation built by western white society, is systemically racist. They only way to end it is to destroy society then hope a diverse society can rebuild institutions that are not systemically racist.
Even with laws having race or sex as a parameter, if you can show that there is a disparity along racial lines or gender lines then that law is racist or sexist. So we blame the system, rather than the individual.
@@deal2live *“trust me bro”* 🥱
You can’t close the wound when it’s too profitable to eliminate. The race grievance industry is too big to fail.
Exactly, we are living in a society where white people are lying about being black to rack in money pushing those CRT bullshit. And yet they are somehow telling us that we have a systemic racism against black people. Those people are the living contradiction against the narrative they are pushing.
Not talking about race doesn't close a wound. In fact, we aren't even at that point; more wounds are being created day by day by the racists in our society. Race matters. It always has.
An empty, race-baiting claim. Where is your McDonald's selfie, John? Enjoy your narcissistic victimhood while it lasts. Eventually, you'll have to deal with your own problems. I wish you the very best success.
@@JohnSmith-hs1hn My understanding of "closing the wound" wasn't that it means stop talking about race (makes no sense in today's globalist world) but rather implication i got was for black people especially doing it with backdrop of slavery (the wound) or using it as validation of racism everywhere today. They didn't say racism today doesn't exist in fact Glenn mentioned it's something that will always exist, Coleman gave an example of a housing documentary to show individual racism so i think you misunderstood.
And Race hasn't always mattered as you say, there was a time before the races met where division inclusive of slavery was based around ethnicity or tribes, religions of the same race etc. This is why Glenn says racism will always exist, historically this is what humans have shown, behaviorally, there's always going to be people who need to feel superior, enough to belittle others along lines they define as superior regardless of race, whether they be tribal/ethnic, economic, religious etc. The examples that come to mind even after races had long met include, rwanda genocide, khmer rouge, Korean war, Nazi germany, Caste India, Modern day China...
The issue is focusing on race as if it is the entire/main problem makes people miss and fail to address the dark human nature aspect embedded in all the isms that led to these and other historical atrocities as well as the ones we are creating today. Superiority complexes are the real issue and right now the woke movements are equating victimhood (not to be confused with being a victim) with moral superiority. So with BLM for example, if you're black, you're a good person who must be listened and your word is God on race issues, because at some point you'll have experienced racism which apparently began when whites took black slaves making white people the source of racism, ALL inherently evil. Asians or other minority races can't be racist as also considered POC because they never had the power that white people did. How exactly does this type of thinking solve problems around race?
So refreshingly intelligent & logical. Thank you.
“For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the powers and principalities over this present darkness” (125:25) from Ephesians 6:12. Would love to hear Glenn talk about his de-conversion to Christianity sometime.
Thank you Glenn and Coleman for having the courage to speak what you believe, in this highly polarized time. It’s conversations like these that give me hope!
What they ‘think’ rather than ‘believe’, you mean. 😉
I am continually appreciative to listen to you tell your perspective on everything you talk about. Thank you for being such an example of brave, rational, empathetic and patient discourse. I find learning about your approach to the world enriching and continue learning areas for further investigation. 🙏
Great answers to strange questions
To the one reading this, let's meet here after 10 years after we all are successful.
Until then, take care. See you in 2030.
2030 will be a good year. See you then dude :)
What a great comment. Setting a calendar reminder for 10 years with the link
Make it happen :)
Perfect, CHEERS to everyone's imminent success!
Let's do it!
Wow! Glenn answered my question @1:18:00 I was listening and had to drop off the live presentation and am glad you uploaded Coleman.
Thank you Coleman for mentioning Nathan Galzer. I too have been reading vast amounts of Thomas Sowell and was looking for another author to read while I absorb the Sowell literature. Love your talks with Glenn and Bret Weinstein.
Amazing work Mr. Hughes!!!!
Very excited for this!!
11:10 -- while listening to Coleman Hughes, a phrase appeared in my head: "Systemic Culture." Culture is intrinsically "systemic," in that peoples cohere and form ideas and behaviors that replicate in the space, and thus produce behavior systemically within that culture.
Glenn: Great point on Vaclav Havel
Being of mixed descent myself (metis, aka White/Native), and having suffered discrimination/racism on both sides of the fence, I've mostly found the people I agree with in North America about race/identity are also other people of mixed heritage with similar experience, who have a perspective different from the full blooded white, black, Native, asian or latino. There seems to be this push towards tribal ideals where a race is seen as "a people", and therefore being born a member makes that "your people", "your tribe", "your family", and everything you do judged as being "loyal to your group".
Humanism is about being an individual and embracing everybody, while "anti-racism" is more about "protecting your tribe", while still believing in group conformity, racial barriers and everything that racist societies value. And these same people also believe people like me are invalid and have no right to an identity or culture.
Coleman...the voice of reason. You're doing good work. Hopefully folks are listening.
We cannot deny the good intentions on either side of the debate- not being racist should be the categorical norm and equality of opportunity and diversity of race, religion, colour should be celebrated. However, the essentialization of race is problematic for various reasons, picked up on throughout this rich discussion- 1) creating a binary society of coloured people vs whites is tribal and screams out tension and conflict 2) as an extension, this emphasis on colour is at the heart of what the civil rights movement sought to disintegrate, via MLK's vision of a colourless society whereby the fruits of one's intellect and effort are primarily the measure of one's value 3) making white people feel guilty and burdened while reanimating historical trauma in black people/minorities is a painful, long drawn out exercise with very unclear motivations, that hardly seem progressive or effective in unifiying our communities and transcending racial/cultural conflict...
Thanks for your hard work
I wish I was smart enough to be friends with Coleman. Awesome video.
Excellent.
Very exciting
Just pre-ordered 1620. Thanks, Glenn!
Open-minded race convos are so needed right now, so appreciate the video. In the last video on my channel, I go deep into discussing color blindness, how individual vs. group colorblindness is different, & how it honors each's individual experiences/identity way more than the opposite of seeing color & assuming something from there about someone. I appreciate all perspectives though so I hope videos like ours inspire people to think critically about how they view the world.
What's the audio hook at the beginning of the song? If it's your stuff, do you have a longer version?
Fantastic.
New sub!!! Love your perspective coleman!!! Keep it honest!!!
Great video. Amount of ads are insane. Fortunately for me, I've trained myself to totally tune them out with years of cable and internet use =O
Wonderful conversation so far...thank you for pointing out that disparities between communities can be due to BOTH racist systems and cultural differences. It is not completely one or the other.
I loved it from the onset of Glen's response to what is racism
Wonderful conversation...
Coleman, I think you should highly consider trying to get Phillip Atiba, who founded the Center for Policing Equity, on your podcast. He does amazing data-driven work with police departments across the country, which I think you could enhance through a conversation with him.
Glenn & Coleman = 1 & 2 punch combo!
Anyway to listen to this without all the ad stops?
I think it’s important to be able to have conversations like this to get to the truth. Open, honest and thoughtful dialogue deconstructing ideals and ideologies that can be beneficial or harmful if played out in perpetuity. I also would like a huge conversation between the IDW faithful analyzing the distinctions between Majority Bias v. Racial Bias and how they apply to current western societies and their future impact. I would like Coleman Hughes, Jordan Peterson, John McWhorter and Brett Weinstein.
well said....... Thank you for your views
I have been told many times throughout my university experience that colorblindness is racism and that if you do not view people primarily as their race, you are acting as if they don't exist. I am training to be an educator and they have taught me multiple times that I should have different expectations for students based on their racial categories.
Thanks again.
I love you Coleman!
Thank you so much for having these conversations.
Ephesians 6:12 Love that verse
If you're not going to use headphones, mute your mic when listening, Please.
Great Talk! You need to enhance the quality of the sound though...
"My starting assumption is that, in a multiethnic society, no two groups are going to have equal outcomes (...)"
C.H.
10:55
And more to the point It plays out the same way each time.
To Russell S: agree 100%, we have become lazy, under-informed, imprecise and exhausted when faced with responsibly using/choosing words accurately to include the right groups and exclude others you do not want to offend. It's not too hard. The alternative is to lump together peaceful protesters making a statement with violent, confrontational 'looters/destroyers of property' that are perpetraing cimes.
I appreciate the video & the diverse perspective on racism! I tie in racism in the last video on my channel - There are multiple complexities surrounding racism & the discussions around it that I go into. I hope we inspire people to reflect on racism, and use our reflection to empower & not disempower going forward was well. I just subscribed to your channel also - Keep it up!
This will be good.
What was the Dan Denney paper referred to called?
I like how Colman Batman’d his way out of there at the end
He should always do that. Never say goodbye just theatrically disappear.
I didn’t quite understand what Loury meant by he couldn’t “ come home again.” That was a touching moment and very enlightening as to why joining the left is so attractive. It is tough being the “lonely truth teller”- it is so much easier to join the herd
I believe the expression "you can never go home again" is akin to "you can never step in the same river twice". Things in life are always changing as are we as individuals. As an adult you can go back to your parents home but you'll find that things won't be the same because you have changed.
If we can stop the ads coming on every 5 minutes this would be amazing!
I watched this with no ads
These are very interesting conversations, but the amount of ads is a bit too much.
What was going on with so much feedback on the zoom call?
Harry & Megan need to watch this...
Feels like commercials are every two minutes. Great talk but it's a little frustrating with so many interruptions.
Glenn snapped!
Glenn and Coleman have you ever read a book called White Awake? I'd be interested in your thoughts on it.
"The more you study this (tendancy for different ethnicities in countries across the world to have disperate outcomes), I think, the more you're going to adjust your priors to expect disparity rather than parity."
Coleman Hughes
10:29
Tendency and disparate........ Are you Black!
NOICE!
1:19:15 "You can't go home again."
True but you can make a new one, or to be more precise unearth an old one the rest of us have been longing for.
55:28 yeah, I’ve always thought this
Can we talk for a sec about the opening music, sh*t slaps
can you make a youtube channel with clips, so they're easier to share ?
why dont you do it? It could be a great yt channel idea :)
Too many commercials. Which is sad because these guys are my guys and I want to hear them.
It's Google and UA-cam.
youtube red
LETS GOOOOOOO
Why did UA-cam put so many ads on this video
Coleman Hughes, I wonder if there is some overlap with what you are classifying as a psychic wound with the work of Dr. Leary on Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome. You should have her on as a guest.
There are constant ads on this video for whatever reason.
I think that one should read as many perspectives as possible. From my perspective it becomes quite clear where gaps in history and interpretations of the day lie. You add to that research into world history and trends begin to form. You find that people are predictable and as such change history and current reality to suit their needs. Societies now a days have membership expectations. If you choose to drill down to the truth prepare to except the social repercussions.
Please plan on running for POTUS as soon as possible. You have my vote.
I hope at around the age of 35 or so, Coleman will run for President.
Just wondered why the intro music is so different...yeah if you always watch 2x speed xD
Same!
This is very interesting but totally unwatchable with ads every 5 minutes!!!!
I've always thought the problem with the idea of the race problem is that it isn't a problem. Only racism is! Except now we have people going around saying that everything interaction that happens between a black person and a white person MUST be racist (Robin D'angelo paraphrased). So now we have a definition problem, and a critical race theory problem.
I love listening to Dr Loury and Coleman, but a commercial every 3 minutes just makes me angry, so I’m outta here. And as valuable as this conversation is . . . 🤷🏻♀️
This is only a small part of a larger conversation. I don't remember so many ads there but I'm not sure.
ua-cam.com/video/hkYlSHnaKVM/v-deo.html
Same here, but worse. It's about every 2 minutes here. Unusable.
Go to the end and then back and the adds will have disappeared
Coleman has to make expenses.
@@TheShootist oh indeed. I wouldn't mind one or two ads at the start or end but the number of ads is exploding lately all over UA-cam with content creators often not even able to control it. I guess the income for UA-cam's will have exploded too? I can't find data on that yet but I am curious about that.
Dude, way too many ads. Seriously it's not even funny.
Tip: Simply skip to the end and restart the video. The ads disappear
@@penurious_pepper1957 love you
@@jdrubin89 ❤️
I thought it was just me... Can everyone say "repress speech, repress ideas"?
pay $10 a month, no commercials👍
I wish i could watch this but youtube put on 50 ads... unwatchable.
I was born in, & live in, the United States & am of British isles descent. My brother also lives in the United States and his home is right next to a Native American reservation. My brother has been made an honorary tribe member. He works for the tribe in one of their casinos. I have visited him many times and have gone on the reservation with him many times. When on the reservation, some Native Americans embrace me while others prefer a white person not come on the reservation. I have been invited to Native Americans’ cookouts and have some of the native Americans not sit near me or talk to me because I am white. One time my brother took my dad and me to the beach so we could see the fishing boats come in. He knew some of the fishermen. He told that he could talk to one of the fellas and get us on the boat so we could see what the fishing boat looks like, but there were also those on board who think the white man brings bad luck and so we did not visit the fishing boat that day. If all that I have described above is considered racism against me - well - it just is then. There’s a national history there and that’s just how it is. I’m certainly not going to push myself on those who wanted nothing to do with me. Would they change their mind about me if they got to know me? I don’t know.
Oh, wait a minute - being a white person, can racism be displayed against me?
Who are these people who keep interrupting all the wonderful commercials???? Stop it!
Races are a matter of heritage. That's positive. 'Negative' is when inferiority/superiority beliefs come into play. Mere preference of in-group is perfectly fine in many cases. In some cases in-group preferences are not fine. Appreciate diversity, and, your own in-group uniqueness.
Psycho social comfort is something to be respected, universally, multi-versally.
Important points that I think is worth highlighting here:
21:43 “bullying... withdraw within yourself” as a problem in this country. (I also like Coleman’s view on anti racism presupposing that this is the correct way to view inequality and racism. In my take, it is dogmatic, rigid rules that people have indoctrinated us to believe as irrefutable. This is morally wrong and fascist.)
42:52-44:00 also like Coleman’s how white fragility is condescending. “Implicitly treating me like a petulant child... who can’t be reasoned with.
44:30 Glenn’s point on being the “odd person out”.
46:38 “black fragility”
This is so good. We should help poor black people not becuase they are black but because they are poor. And all poor people should have more social mobility in America than current. Race should be seen like hair color...
I think it would be helpful if both of you guys would make CLEAR articulations of what aspects of systemic racism you DO believe in. For those of us listening, we have heard your other arguments over and over.
If you're white, I suggest not entering a conversation about race unless you're prepared to do so. Modern whites refuse to think that race matters, or to think of themselves as white, because that is racist. Therefore, even when whites are being attacked as whites, whites refuse to recognize that this is happening and to defend themselves, because that would require them to think of themselves as white, which they think would be evil. If you're going to get into a conversation about race with the left, be prepared to either bend the knee or be accused of being racist, and evil.
Coleman, would love to see you have a discussion with Cosmic Skeptic or Ask Yourself about animal rights.
You sound like a Vegan Gains fan. Can we get human rights mastered before we start expanding out into animal rights? I really don’t see the point of arguing about animal rights while we are on the precipice of civil war and civilizational decline.
Dude same. Also Earthling Ed would be a great conversation!
Sometimes educated people Make issues too complex. The advice I would give an individual in approaching racial issues Is to speak the truth And be willing to engage in a dialogue. Support your position fearlessly. They will attack you no matter what. But to hide the truth is not only cowardly but evil.
"She (a former professor) said (...) 'antiracism is not a movement, it's a starting point.' (...) It seems to me, basically all people of good will are antiracist in the literal sense of wanting to live in a world where ultimately nobody ever experiences the stinging rejection of being discriminated against on account of something you can't possibly control."
C.H.
13:32
Glenn is a treasure. Oh, you are too. By the way, I always screw up and call you Coleman Hawkins. You weren't, by any chance, named after him, were you?
I call him Collin Hughes
These guys need to explain the difference between Discrimination and Racism. Most people don't understand that they are not the same. Most of them are actually in favor of Discrimination when they should not be.
Who's the interviewer/moderator? I'm sure it was unintentional, but this video failed to introduce her. I just re-checked the video on the Intercollegiate Studies Institute's channel and the name "Marina Barnes" appears briefly on screen. ua-cam.com/video/hkYlSHnaKVM/v-deo.html
Check out the original video on Conservative Conversations. I'm sure her name will be there.
@@just_another32 Thanks for the suggestion and you are correct. I did look at the original video briefly before commenting here and noticed that it jumps right into the discussion like this version. I just looked again and found that the name of each participant in the conversation appears briefly on screen, something which didn't make it into this version. ua-cam.com/video/hkYlSHnaKVM/v-deo.html The name of the interviewer is Marina Barnes.
@@JonathanRossRogers Glad you found it. :)