Gorbachev was awful. He ruined Soviet Union and the wonderful Russians would be astronomically more socially, culturally and industrially developed now if they had not taken the western neoliberal path. It is only being discovered now that USSR began being dismantled far earlier than popularly cited - it was gradually from the 1970s and owing to rampant British and US interference. The rate at which Russia developed (health care, science, culture, quality of life, you name it - it improved incredibly from the initial conditions) from 1920 to 1960 was astronomical and this would have continued without the western bribes and incessant political interference, climaxing with Gorbachev completely ruining the entire state. As this involved enormous property being passed to our elites and oligarchs, and creating oligarchs there merely as a byproduct, we cheer the devastation he brought, but having family in Russia I can attest that most Russians have the opposite view than our brainwashed traded stocks and private rental property obsessed narrative.
But they didn't, Putin used the opportunity to seize power instead of allowing for limit terms and REAL voting rights. The shame is the Russian people didn't seem to mind.
Nonsense, he was outdone by nationalism which he allowed by not doing anything concrete when the Baltic states seceded bringing about a domino effect that was finished off by the failed coup of 1991.
@@incrediblyintelligentman2895 They deserved their own countries. They don't belong to Russia. Until Russian leaders learn this lesson, their people will suffer from imperialist fever.
Was he too decent and intelligent a man to be well thought of in Russia? The majority of Russians like hard men who they see as strong leaders. Hopefully the young have a different attitude but I will not hold my breath.
You can´t blame a man for what happens 30 years after his period. The Sovjet Union collapse was not Gorby´s fault, he just did´nt get enough time to turn this giant tanker around before it went out of fuel so to speak. If he had had a couple of years more to do the exercise I am pretty sure that Russia would have looked significantly different today. There were a few of his views that I really did not understand, you probably have to be Russian to understand it, but in general he was one of the great state men of all times IMHO. RIP Gorby
He walked a path that led to less mistrust more openness and ultimately as a result less investment in weapons and let this money go to the people. Russia would have been much better off if the greatest kleptocrat in the world (Putin) had not come to power. Trying to take an honest path and build good ties with the rest now led to hatred, mistrust, corruption at its best, war and a new cold war and self-destruction. But a dictatorship that can no longer rely on deception can only last aggression over as means of government. All dictators disappear sooner or later, history shows
@@kx4532 reality means, we get what we deserve. Russians chose to succumb to a klepto-autocracy. They wouldn't admit to it of course, as do many of us deny, decline, and refuse to accept responsibility for the consequences of our choices and actions
Gorbachev, seems there was a sense of sadness/sorrow in his eyes in some pictures. Hopefully he is now fully at ease and resting in peace. Upsetting times for Russia, the people society and, Ukraine, the Ukrainian people and the world. It must have been disappointing for him, if he had any the better sense.
The problems we have today have nothing to do with Gorbachev and I don't think it is right to tie him to putin. If it was yeltsin then yes in agreement. But Gorbachev helped end the cold War, stopped the war in Afghanistan, stopped killing people within the ussr, promoted freedom of speech and many other things like that, he hoped for a free and democratic russia. He wanted greatness and riches not just for Russians but for all people's of the soviet republics. Gorbachev is probably the only Russian leader that Lenin would have approved of. These 2 men hoped for the best for their people. One succeeded but died soon after and the other hoped but was unsuccessful as he stepped down to yeltsin, a much weaker man. Now putin, the weakling sitting in the kremln barking out orders to destroy the country Gorbachev loved. If it was Gorbachev himself we would be with his people not just giving orders. Really shows the huge differences between the two. Ones a man the other is a fascist. May Mr Gorbachev RIP knowing he is the only Russian leader in the past century to truly gain respect from the west. And he earned it. The only Russian leader in the past 100 yeas to actually do the right thing for the people and not for himself.
It's such a shame. Gorbachev gave Russia a chance to be a normal nation, prosperous and healthy, but they threw it all away. It'll be generations now before Russian can rejoin the modern world.
He jumped off the path and tried to set it in a new direction. The 'West' isn't perfect, democracy isn't perfect, but at least he showed that continuing in the direction of the Russian, Soviet way was worse. It's not his fault that Putin's ego, a consolidated wreck of the worst of human endeavour took over and has led Russia back a century.
@@Youalleatmuffins Agreed. That word and his name shouldn't ever be in same sentence. Gorbachev was the right man during the cold war, no question. He put his country and her people first, where they should be. He saw the potential for his country, and indeed the world, to be better. Can't even imagine the difficult decisions he had to make while keeping a cool head under incredible pressure. If someone doesn't make a mistake from time to time, then they're not doing anything. Inspired to learn more about the man.
I spent some time visiting Russia- a few summers in SPB and winter in Moscow and 2 semesters of university- at SPB State and MGU. This was the early- mid 2000's. At the time I would have never guessed Russia would become Mordor within 15 years. Westernization was happening, Russians I knew wanted to be like the progressive West, not Russia's past. Putin is solely to blame for what has become of Russia.. He completely turned everything around- in a way similar to how the far right in America has gained power under their cult of personality- Trump. The 2 movements are very similar in that they have united a large % of the population under the guise of ultranationalism, religion, and anti wokenes. Putler saw that Ukraine was embracing the EU and EU values of freedom and democracy, and couldn't stand to have Ukraine even think of being in the EU. He saw how former communist states- like the Czech Republic, have such higher standards of living, quality of life, modernity and freedom, than Russia, that he couldn't live with the possibility of Ukraine following in the footsteps of countries like the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania...
It's a different approach, to doing things. Wrong, in my view, but to say, or suggest in subtly that if you support the annexation you are free, if you do not, you go to jail or die. Harsh. Beyond that of course one finds, the pathway towards what nationalists identify as the best potential for their nations future, the future of their nations people. While one leader may support an idea, another may support it in a different way for different reasons. Essentially the engrained model of ideology seems strangely there, without getting away from but if one supported it by killing vast amounts of innocent civilians for gain, it could be another may support going to meetings, buying up property, integrating communities, people working together, in community. It seems Ukraine should be able to make decisions in such regard also. Unfortunate what become of the other two in some sense, as it were the passing and the loss of freedom through imprisonment. As the world hurts. May we hold on to hope faith and love.
Bizarrely the legacy of Gorbachev will be one where he's hated in his own country but loved everywhere else especially in the West and in the NATO countries Funny how fate works that way
This discussion has nothing to do with what reality is all about. The interlocutors are journalists not analysts and do not know the post USSR political developments. Watch Gorbachev's speech in 1997 in front of Congress.
These comments move directly from Gorbachev to Putin without a mention of Yeltsin. Yeltsin was the transitional figure, competitor to Gorbachev, who appointed Putin. The wrong turn began with Yeltsin.
Gorbachev >>> Putin Whatever is good about Russia today is a consequence of what Gorbacheve initiated. The many things that are wrong with Russia are down to a combination of a succession of worthless successors, right down to the present one, who was made to look good by a high economic tide that floated all boats, not by his inputs to that wave from other shores that created his illusion for him, and a Russian public that never understood that democracy without participation doesn't work. To Gorbachev's (and the world economy's) credit, Putin's Russia is still a much better place than Soviet Russia was. In a way the change worked. All that's needed is for Russians to start exerting more control over the people they hire to run the collective enterprises. (Fire them when they mess up, for instance. Boil them alive and make glue out of them if they steal. Sorry, corruption is a bitter issue in South Africa. Some bile might have risen there.)
It seems like our lack of knowledge about the system of Russia is to blame for this transformation to this. Russia is not in a recent totalitarian mode now - but it is totalitarian for centuries. Since the Mongol era, when the Mongol Khans first brought the idea of Chinese totalitarianism to Russia, Russia has been run by despots with authoritarian tendency, running secret police and military force to suppress domestic unrest and invading sovereign nations beyond the border. But we assumed Russia would become a democracy very quickly and we tried to bring this, without addressing this totalitarian trait. If we want to help building a future democratic Russia, we must destroy the seed that breed totalitarian nature in the country. The same thing in China as well, considering China has a tremendous influence in how Russia has become.
Mixed legacy at best! An one man show that could not change a country which is essentially fascist in nature (see article in the Economist - a short history of Russian fascism 30 July) and will continue to be. Best exemplified with many atrocities and war crimes it is committing in Ukraine on a daily basis and yet supported by 70% of the Russian people. Perestroika and glasnost served only the nomenclatura paving the way for them to turn into the new oligarchs. Read the book 'Putin and it's people' by Catherine Belton. He is himself a prime example of this. Lastly don't have any illusions that this country will change. It will not and its history is proof of that with the many czars, Stalin, Brezhnev and now Putin -all doing the same thing, repression, gulag etc.For Europe building strong deterrence against this menace is the only way and keep Russians out also as tourists!
I understand of course why Gorbachev is held in such disdain by most Russians. Still, I see him as something of a tragic figure: a weak man promoted beyond his capabilities, playing with forces he didn’t really understand. Not without some redeeming qualities though. He was left holding the tattered bag of the USSR (Russia) which he then went on to naively set on fire expecting it to be reborn like a phoenix from the ashes, while his alcoholic "protégé" Boris Yeltsin poured gasoline on the flames as we in the west gave them more kindling, watched and applauded as it all went up in flames. That's why they will both always be heroes to us...any ruler who destroys their own country...in this case an empire for our benefit however good their intentions ...is A...ok with us. Especially if its all for the very low price of a pizza hut commercial.
Something important to know, for all who are interested in history and/or support Ukraine: Rus’ ought not to be confused with “Russia”, which derives its name from the Rus’ but historically is a completely different state, which almost all its existence was at war with the Rus’. Just like the Holy Roman Empire was actually Germany, Russia is actually Muscovy, despite their best attempts to convince everybody otherwise. Its name “Russia" received only in 1721, when Peter I passed a decree to change Tsardom of Muscovy’s name into the “Russian” Empire (“Russia” originates from Rosia, name used by the Greek Orthodox Clergy in regards to Kyivan Rus') Under the reign of Cathrine II Muscovites where even punished for continuing to identify as Muscovites, and were forced to call themselves “Russian”. Lands that “Russia” claims were part of the original Rus’, but actually weren't, are Novgorod, Suzdal, and Ryazan, since in historical texts of XI-XII centuries they are mentioned as separate entities from Rus’. They can be considered parts of extended Rus’, although their culture was distinct from main Rus’. In 1493 Moscow prince Ivan III appointed himself to be the Great Ruler of All Rus’. No other kings acknowledged that. From that point on Muscovy started to make false claims on Rus’ ownership. “Russia” is an offshoot of Ukraine and not the other way round, despite what Soviet and “Russian” historians have been trying to say for years. Kiev was a developed cultured capital when Moscow was just another swamp village. Germany used to call itself the Holy Roman Empire, that didn’t mean they became the Romans, and all of a sudden had a right to claim whole of Italy and its history, but yet, that’s exactly what “Russia” did in regards to Rus’-Ukraine, which is a horrible injustice!
I wish the West their own Gorbachevs, who will exchange the well-being of their own citizens for highly abstract ideological slogans and plunge countries into civil conflicts and poverty.
It really just boils down to a corrupt society, where the rule of law is used to punish your detractors, or extort money or other items from companies, or the general public. This however, is regrettably the situation in most countries, with the exception of Europe and sometimes North America.
I think Gorby would have ended up successful if given more time but the attempted coup and the rapid emergence of Yeltsin gave Gorby no time to right the ship. At least he is considered a great man in the West!
Unlikely, Russia's first major economic and societal collapsed happened in 1991 under his watch after 7 years in power. It had been rapidly declining since he took power in 1985...and taking on all the debt obligations of all the former soviet states didn't help.
Gobrachev is reviled in central-eastern europe. That perspective should be given voice imo. Probably more meaningful than a vague western recollection of walls breaking & pizza hut, tbh.
You are correct. But I do think that it is mainly because of the fact that the eastern block was simply out of resources at the time. The Sovjet Union was basicly bankrupt, so times were hard for the man on the floor. Suddenly there was not necessarily "work", or a paycheck every month, there were food shortages etc etc. Many blamed him for that. What they should have blamed was the previus 40 years of exploitation an inefficiency of their Countries.
How much of Glastnost and Perestroika was Gorbachev's choice, and how much was the result of the Reagan build up, SDI, Stinger missiles in Afghanistan, and the Chernobyl disaster????
You could not be more wrong if you tried. The U.S. has produced visionary, highly democratic, moral leaders on a level that russians can only dream of. The first U.S. President, George Washington, was the first democratically elected leader of a country to voluntarily hand over power, to allow for the next democratically elected president to take over. Then there were the visionary presidents, Franklin D. Roosevelt & JFK. Even Jimmy Carter, the great humanitarian, was (and still is) exponentially better than any russian leader. Carter protected the rights of Americans whereas russian leaders trampled all over the rights of citizens of russia & the Soviet Union. Your argument is a bust.
@@samthomas6093 your USA government system is rotten , your USA peoples need morale help , your leaders more over your president is the baddest product ever in the world , your country need leader like GORBACHEV to fix it . Don't believe try me .
Putin takes the blame for Putin not Gorbachev.
He doesn't even take the blame for Putin.
Well Gorbachev also said this about Putin and the West (as stated by himself William Taubman) -> ua-cam.com/video/eKb87H2g6CM/v-deo.html
Not by his own choice, no.
Gorbachev was awful. He ruined Soviet Union and the wonderful Russians would be astronomically more socially, culturally and industrially developed now if they had not taken the western neoliberal path. It is only being discovered now that USSR began being dismantled far earlier than popularly cited - it was gradually from the 1970s and owing to rampant British and US interference. The rate at which Russia developed (health care, science, culture, quality of life, you name it - it improved incredibly from the initial conditions) from 1920 to 1960 was astronomical and this would have continued without the western bribes and incessant political interference, climaxing with Gorbachev completely ruining the entire state. As this involved enormous property being passed to our elites and oligarchs, and creating oligarchs there merely as a byproduct, we cheer the devastation he brought, but having family in Russia I can attest that most Russians have the opposite view than our brainwashed traded stocks and private rental property obsessed narrative.
He didn't ruin anything.. The Afghanistan War bankrupted the Soviet Union... By the time he came to power, it was already too late..
But they didn't, Putin used the opportunity to seize power instead of allowing for limit terms and REAL voting rights. The shame is the Russian people didn't seem to mind.
No idea why you blame the UK. America has got whatever if wanted post-war. Even at WW2 peace conferences Churchill was ignored.
Gorby was a good man not like the nutcase that is in power now.
No, no good men in the reptile room.
Well Gorbachev also said this about Putin and the West (as stated by himself William Taubman) -> ua-cam.com/video/eKb87H2g6CM/v-deo.html
Gorbachev was taking Russia in the right direction but was outdone by the oligarch culture.
Nonsense, he was outdone by nationalism which he allowed by not doing anything concrete when the Baltic states seceded bringing about a domino effect that was finished off by the failed coup of 1991.
Oligarchs didn't exist until Yeltsin...our neo-liberal darling took over from him.
Well Gorbachev also said this about Putin and the West (as stated by himself William Taubman) -> ua-cam.com/video/eKb87H2g6CM/v-deo.html
@@incrediblyintelligentman2895 They deserved their own countries. They don't belong to Russia. Until Russian leaders learn this lesson, their people will suffer from imperialist fever.
@Stewart Thats what they tell you to think... try picking up a book.
Was he too decent and intelligent a man to be well thought of in Russia? The majority of Russians like hard men who they see as strong leaders. Hopefully the young have a different attitude but I will not hold my breath.
Putin mostly rode on the support of the ignorant older folks still hing up on the soviet era
It's not Putn who created Russia. It's Russia who created Putin.
You can´t blame a man for what happens 30 years after his period. The Sovjet Union collapse was not Gorby´s fault, he just did´nt get enough time to turn this giant tanker around before it went out of fuel so to speak. If he had had a couple of years more to do the exercise I am pretty sure that Russia would have looked significantly different today. There were a few of his views that I really did not understand, you probably have to be Russian to understand it, but in general he was one of the great state men of all times IMHO. RIP Gorby
He walked a path that led to less mistrust more openness and ultimately as a result less investment in weapons and let this money go to the people. Russia would have been much better off if the greatest kleptocrat in the world (Putin) had not come to power. Trying to take an honest path and build good ties with the rest now led to hatred, mistrust, corruption at its best, war and a new cold war and self-destruction. But a dictatorship that can no longer rely on deception can only last aggression over as means of government. All dictators disappear sooner or later, history shows
I hope he was able to find and embrace the peace that it was not his fault.
Rest well, Gorby
Fake hero.
Well Gorbachev also said this about Putin and the West (as stated by himself William Taubman) -> ua-cam.com/video/eKb87H2g6CM/v-deo.html
Gorby gave Russia its chance. The people couldn't understand it. Democracy means the people get what they deserve.
@@kx4532 reality means, we get what we deserve. Russians chose to succumb to a klepto-autocracy. They wouldn't admit to it of course, as do many of us deny, decline, and refuse to accept responsibility for the consequences of our choices and actions
@@kx4532 every country has the government it deserves
Gorbachev, seems there was a sense of sadness/sorrow in his eyes in some pictures. Hopefully he is now fully at ease and resting in peace. Upsetting times for Russia, the people society and, Ukraine, the Ukrainian people and the world. It must have been disappointing for him, if he had any the better sense.
The problems we have today have nothing to do with Gorbachev and I don't think it is right to tie him to putin. If it was yeltsin then yes in agreement. But Gorbachev helped end the cold War, stopped the war in Afghanistan, stopped killing people within the ussr, promoted freedom of speech and many other things like that, he hoped for a free and democratic russia. He wanted greatness and riches not just for Russians but for all people's of the soviet republics. Gorbachev is probably the only Russian leader that Lenin would have approved of. These 2 men hoped for the best for their people. One succeeded but died soon after and the other hoped but was unsuccessful as he stepped down to yeltsin, a much weaker man. Now putin, the weakling sitting in the kremln barking out orders to destroy the country Gorbachev loved. If it was Gorbachev himself we would be with his people not just giving orders. Really shows the huge differences between the two. Ones a man the other is a fascist. May Mr Gorbachev RIP knowing he is the only Russian leader in the past century to truly gain respect from the west. And he earned it. The only Russian leader in the past 100 yeas to actually do the right thing for the people and not for himself.
Gorbachev is direct cause of what is going on in former soviet republics and the world
It's such a shame. Gorbachev gave Russia a chance to be a normal nation, prosperous and healthy, but they threw it all away. It'll be generations now before Russian can rejoin the modern world.
Russia and "modern" do not match. Russia will never change. With or without Putin. They don't know any better. They were raised that way
He jumped off the path and tried to set it in a new direction. The 'West' isn't perfect, democracy isn't perfect, but at least he showed that continuing in the direction of the Russian, Soviet way was worse. It's not his fault that Putin's ego, a consolidated wreck of the worst of human endeavour took over and has led Russia back a century.
Thank you, mr William Taubman!! A great explanation, without becoming all emotional!!✌✌🌹❤
"Failure" is entirely too harsh a word to describe Gorbachev.
Also entirely inaccurate.
@@Youalleatmuffins Agreed. That word and his name shouldn't ever be in same sentence. Gorbachev was the right man during the cold war, no question. He put his country and her people first, where they should be. He saw the potential for his country, and indeed the world, to be better. Can't even imagine the difficult decisions he had to make while keeping a cool head under incredible pressure. If someone doesn't make a mistake from time to time, then they're not doing anything. Inspired to learn more about the man.
Failure is the word for Putin and Yeltsin.
I spent some time visiting Russia- a few summers in SPB and winter in Moscow and 2 semesters of university- at SPB State and MGU. This was the early- mid 2000's. At the time I would have never guessed Russia would become Mordor within 15 years. Westernization was happening, Russians I knew wanted to be like the progressive West, not Russia's past. Putin is solely to blame for what has become of Russia.. He completely turned everything around- in a way similar to how the far right in America has gained power under their cult of personality- Trump. The 2 movements are very similar in that they have united a large % of the population under the guise of ultranationalism, religion, and anti wokenes. Putler saw that Ukraine was embracing the EU and EU values of freedom and democracy, and couldn't stand to have Ukraine even think of being in the EU. He saw how former communist states- like the Czech Republic, have such higher standards of living, quality of life, modernity and freedom, than Russia, that he couldn't live with the possibility of Ukraine following in the footsteps of countries like the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania...
Blame on Yeltsin, but Gorbachev was a weak leader
He was a great man. RIP
Gorby was hated by all Russians as he was a traitor🤪🤪🤪
Russia is so surly, the kid alone in the corner of the playground. Gorbachev was far too open to be a proper Russian.
@@keithmorgan3295 Gorby created chaos, many regional wars in former USSR between former Soviet republics, total poverty and so-called Russian mafia🤪🤪🤪
@@StPiter111 Sometimes no single man can prevent something well past it's use-by date from breaking apart.
The last decent Russian leader Rip
Both Gorbachev and Navalny supported crimea annexation by Russia, let that sink in.
It's a different approach, to doing things. Wrong, in my view, but to say, or suggest in subtly that if you support the annexation you are free, if you do not, you go to jail or die. Harsh. Beyond that of course one finds, the pathway towards what nationalists identify as the best potential for their nations future, the future of their nations people. While one leader may support an idea, another may support it in a different way for different reasons. Essentially the engrained model of ideology seems strangely there, without getting away from but if one supported it by killing vast amounts of innocent civilians for gain, it could be another may support going to meetings, buying up property, integrating communities, people working together, in community. It seems Ukraine should be able to make decisions in such regard also. Unfortunate what become of the other two in some sense, as it were the passing and the loss of freedom through imprisonment.
As the world hurts. May we hold on to hope faith and love.
Bizarrely the legacy of Gorbachev will be one where he's hated in his own country but loved everywhere else especially in the West and in the NATO countries
Funny how fate works that way
If it's the enemies of your country who mourn you the most, then maybe you're not your country's friend at all.
russia is to blame. 100%
This discussion has nothing to do with what reality is all about. The interlocutors are journalists not analysts and do not know the post USSR political developments. Watch Gorbachev's speech in 1997 in front of Congress.
These comments move directly from Gorbachev to Putin without a mention of Yeltsin. Yeltsin was the transitional figure, competitor to Gorbachev, who appointed Putin. The wrong turn began with Yeltsin.
Gorbachev >>> Putin
Whatever is good about Russia today is a consequence of what Gorbacheve initiated. The many things that are wrong with Russia are down to a combination of a succession of worthless successors, right down to the present one, who was made to look good by a high economic tide that floated all boats, not by his inputs to that wave from other shores that created his illusion for him, and a Russian public that never understood that democracy without participation doesn't work.
To Gorbachev's (and the world economy's) credit, Putin's Russia is still a much better place than Soviet Russia was. In a way the change worked. All that's needed is for Russians to start exerting more control over the people they hire to run the collective enterprises. (Fire them when they mess up, for instance. Boil them alive and make glue out of them if they steal. Sorry, corruption is a bitter issue in South Africa. Some bile might have risen there.)
*The Keystone State of The Union Address:*
*Good Morning Blessings SunRose Pennsylvania👻🌞🌹💍🎼🌎🌈💌📛✨*
*💥GRAND RISING💥*
It seems like our lack of knowledge about the system of Russia is to blame for this transformation to this. Russia is not in a recent totalitarian mode now - but it is totalitarian for centuries. Since the Mongol era, when the Mongol Khans first brought the idea of Chinese totalitarianism to Russia, Russia has been run by despots with authoritarian tendency, running secret police and military force to suppress domestic unrest and invading sovereign nations beyond the border. But we assumed Russia would become a democracy very quickly and we tried to bring this, without addressing this totalitarian trait.
If we want to help building a future democratic Russia, we must destroy the seed that breed totalitarian nature in the country. The same thing in China as well, considering China has a tremendous influence in how Russia has become.
Mixed legacy at best! An one man show that could not change a country which is essentially fascist in nature (see article in the Economist - a short history of Russian fascism 30 July) and will continue to be. Best exemplified with many atrocities and war crimes it is committing in Ukraine on a daily basis and yet supported by 70% of the Russian people. Perestroika and glasnost served only the nomenclatura paving the way for them to turn into the new oligarchs. Read the book 'Putin and it's people' by Catherine Belton. He is himself a prime example of this. Lastly don't have any illusions that this country will change. It will not and its history is proof of that with the many czars, Stalin, Brezhnev and now Putin -all doing the same thing, repression, gulag etc.For Europe building strong deterrence against this menace is the only way and keep Russians out also as tourists!
Putin has shown a lot of resentment towards Democracy on TV, I think deep down he knew Democracy was the right path but he is not ready to admit it.
Gorbachev is the first academician who became leader of Soviet Union.
It could be both. He could have saved the world back then and also brought about the end now with Putin
I understand of course why Gorbachev is held in such disdain by most Russians. Still, I see him as something of a tragic figure: a weak man promoted beyond his capabilities, playing with forces he didn’t really understand. Not without some redeeming qualities though.
He was left holding the tattered bag of the USSR (Russia) which he then went on to naively set on fire expecting it to be reborn like a phoenix from the ashes, while his alcoholic "protégé" Boris Yeltsin poured gasoline on the flames as we in the west gave them more kindling, watched and applauded as it all went up in flames.
That's why they will both always be heroes to us...any ruler who destroys their own country...in this case an empire for our benefit however good their intentions ...is A...ok with us. Especially if its all for the very low price of a pizza hut commercial.
There's a strong pull towards reverting to type.
Something important to know, for all who are interested in history and/or support Ukraine:
Rus’ ought not to be confused with “Russia”, which derives its name from the Rus’ but historically is a completely different state, which almost all its existence was at war with the Rus’.
Just like the Holy Roman Empire was actually Germany, Russia is actually Muscovy, despite their best attempts to convince everybody otherwise.
Its name “Russia" received only in 1721, when Peter I passed a decree to change Tsardom of Muscovy’s name into the “Russian” Empire (“Russia” originates from Rosia, name used by the Greek Orthodox Clergy in regards to Kyivan Rus')
Under the reign of Cathrine II Muscovites where even punished for continuing to identify as Muscovites, and were forced to call themselves “Russian”.
Lands that “Russia” claims were part of the original Rus’, but actually weren't, are Novgorod, Suzdal, and Ryazan, since in historical texts of XI-XII centuries they are mentioned as separate entities from Rus’. They can be considered parts of extended Rus’, although their culture was distinct from main Rus’.
In 1493 Moscow prince Ivan III appointed himself to be the Great Ruler of All Rus’. No other kings acknowledged that. From that point on Muscovy started to make false claims on Rus’ ownership.
“Russia” is an offshoot of Ukraine and not the other way round, despite what Soviet and “Russian” historians have been trying to say for years. Kiev was a developed cultured capital when Moscow was just another swamp village.
Germany used to call itself the Holy Roman Empire, that didn’t mean they became the Romans, and all of a sudden had a right to claim whole of Italy and its history, but yet, that’s exactly what “Russia” did in regards to Rus’-Ukraine, which is a horrible injustice!
The totalitarians dispise Gorbachev.
Don’t compare Gorbi with Putin.
Crony capitalism.
The mafia won 😞
I wish the West their own Gorbachevs, who will exchange the well-being of their own citizens for highly abstract ideological slogans and plunge countries into civil conflicts and poverty.
It really just boils down to a corrupt society, where the rule of law is used to punish your detractors, or extort money or other items from companies, or the general public. This however, is regrettably the situation in most countries, with the exception of Europe and sometimes North America.
Please...
The French philosopher, Joseph de maistre was once quoted as saying that every nation gets the government that it deserves.
I think Gorby would have ended up successful if given more time but the attempted coup and the rapid emergence of Yeltsin gave Gorby no time to right the ship. At least he is considered a great man in the West!
Unlikely, Russia's first major economic and societal collapsed happened in 1991 under his watch after 7 years in power. It had been rapidly declining since he took power in 1985...and taking on all the debt obligations of all the former soviet states didn't help.
And the mourning goes on... 😂😂
gorbachev was a darned good man in the long term. Far better than the current option.
Gobrachev is reviled in central-eastern europe. That perspective should be given voice imo. Probably more meaningful than a vague western recollection of walls breaking & pizza hut, tbh.
You are correct. But I do think that it is mainly because of the fact that the eastern block was simply out of resources at the time. The Sovjet Union was basicly bankrupt, so times were hard for the man on the floor. Suddenly there was not necessarily "work", or a paycheck every month, there were food shortages etc etc. Many blamed him for that. What they should have blamed was the previus 40 years of exploitation an inefficiency of their Countries.
Not even dead hope for Russia. Fake hero.
How much of Glastnost and Perestroika was Gorbachev's choice, and how much was the result of the Reagan build up, SDI, Stinger missiles in Afghanistan, and the Chernobyl disaster????
WORLD PEOPLES WAIT FOR USA HAVE SUCH LEADER
You could not be more wrong if you tried. The U.S. has produced visionary, highly democratic, moral leaders on a level that russians can only dream of.
The first U.S. President, George Washington, was the first democratically elected leader of a country to voluntarily hand over power, to allow for the next democratically elected president to take over. Then there were the visionary presidents, Franklin D. Roosevelt & JFK. Even Jimmy Carter, the great humanitarian, was (and still is) exponentially better than any russian leader. Carter protected the rights of Americans whereas russian leaders trampled all over the rights of citizens of russia & the Soviet Union.
Your argument is a bust.
@@samthomas6093 your USA government system is rotten , your USA peoples need morale help , your leaders more over your president is the baddest product ever in the world , your country need leader like GORBACHEV to fix it .
Don't believe try me .
I support Putin ❤ 👉 🇷🇺 💪
Who is to blame for England to go from Margareth Thatcher to Boris Johnson?