Thanks Peter. I like the way you did the video switching from actual drilling to the simulation during the coolant spray. Nice touch! Runout is phenomenal. Take care and have a good Christmas.
Hi Peter! From my small shop in Sweden I am as always mazed off the complexity off your work . I do grinding and toolmaking butt aim still amazed! Most off my work is out in 48h. and the bulk of my time is emergency fitting and welding on stuff that is never down. I do love your videos! They are like presents fore my sole.
I always like when a top-end machining video starts with roughing and ends with lapping! Nice piece of work, Peter, I enjoy watching your videos. Cheers!
In general, bigger machine = more mass = more stable/rigid = more accuracy. Obviously the servos & feedback loops have to be built to take advantage of that, but getting accurate parts out of a big machine is easier than from a small one!
This was a top quality video showcasing the problem, potential solutions, and your approach to your solution. Amazing turnout results and an excellent outcome
When we have to heat up shrink holders with a torch at our shop, we spin it slowly in the manual lathe in order to heat the holder evenly. Works pretty well.
Always a pleasure watch a high precision engineer at work I'm looking forward to seeing the next video, and that tool working. Thank you for sharing your skill and knowledge 🇬🇧
Im glued to watching these videos of your latest job. The toolmaking side and your approach to the job is very educating. Even better than the super duplex job which was very interesting. Merry Christmas and thanks for posting .
As a guy who used to do a ton of job shop work, and custom tools for nearly half the jobs, this makes me giddy. Love this stuff Peter, awesome content, and even better machining. Cheers and keep up the great work
Although this vid is a year old, I have used a styrofoam cup, can of compressed air turned upside down to dump liquid into cup, place tool into cup to get super cold, heat tool, drops right in. shrink one, expand the other. Can of compressed air works well too for when the reaming ferry shows up and makes holes just a hair undersized. Dump the cold stuff on your part till really cold, cycle start. Hole is now bigger
Really cool thank you! Finish bore in the milling spindle was a big a-ha moment for me. Now that I see it I think I understand - shrink fit holders have the best runout because they are made of a single symmetrical part where other holder styles have many parts to them
I've thought about that too, machinist and designers even from 40 years ago would be amazed by the machines and capabilities we have today. Heck they probably didn't have spindles that went over 5 or 10k
Very nice work Peter! May I suggest lapping in the machine with the lap and the tool holder both rotating. That gives a better chance at not lapping the hole at an angle. ATB, Robin
ROBRENZ thanks Robin. I will keep that in mind next time. All these holders are already being used in a setup right now. But I can see how that would improve the runout error. I would just have to figure out how to run both spindles at the same time. On this machine it’s kind of interlocked. You can mill or you can turn but it doesn’t like to rotate both spindles at the same time. This machine does have the hobbing option witch does allow both spindles to rotate in a sinked fashion. I have never used this function but possibly that could be utilized to make it work. It’s just you can’t rotate the turning spindle without having a tool orientated and clamped in the milling spindle. I know this sounds strange but that’s the way they made this machine.
@@EdgePrecision The most important part is that the toolholder you are lapping is turning. This insures you are not influencing the axis of the hole. If the lap is stationary that is ok and necking the lap to a 1*dia. engaged length will help to minimize any effects of misalignment of the lap to the part. If the lathe spindle is not locked you could just turn it by hand while the mill spindle is turning the toolholder. The whole point here is averaging all the alignment errors by having constantly changing orientations of the lap and part.
Yes I can see the logic in that. And if I ever make some more holders (The chance of this is good) I will do as you suggest. If I can figure out how to make the machine do it. The issues with this machine are. You cant run any spindle with the doors open, and you can only run the milling spindle if the C axis is engaged. Or the turning spindle if the milling spindle is clamped with what it thinks is a turning tool. The way I think I could do what you say is make a program that runs the milling spindle and command a movement in the C axis to rotate with the lap in the bore. While stroking the Z axis such that the lap covers the whole bores length. The more I think about this, I think this would be a most Ideal and repeatable way to do it. Much better than just using a hand drill the way I did in this video. With altering the program I could concentrate on certain areas of the bore if necessary to bring them to size. Thanks again Robin you have made me think about the process.
@@EdgePrecision if you hold the lap by just a little bit so it is very flexible you don't have to worry about the lap spinning. Its just technically better but not necessary. Spinning the part to do the lapping is a must.
A quick workaround would be to just lock the cordless drill or something in the chuck, lock the trigger with a cable tie and let it run. Not elegant but quick.
wow, that turned out excellent! Im sure if you had mentioned in a previous video that you had planned on doing this all you would have heard was reasons why it wouldnt work or why you couldnt do it. Excellent work as always Peter, thanks for putting out such great content. Cheers
Very nice Peter, first thought was the heat running up the tiny shank to change the hardness!! looks like you had it under control...merry xmas from the UK
Yes If there is any heat treat in the material this will soften it. But only in the heated area. This turns out not to be a problem with shrink holders.
Hey buddy just checking on you making sure everything's okay. Not looking for no new post just making sure you're all right. Hope to see you soon and I hope you're having an awesome new year
Thanks Don! I’m fine just been busy learning the new Esprit TNG software interface. In combination with this setup using all those special tools in the previous videos. New video coming soon explaining this and the new operation showing how these tools are used.
Fascinating as always. Now a question, not a criticism. Could you not make the whole Capto unit yourself, or are they too precise for your equipment? Or perhaps it's just not cost effective to do so?
If your talking about making the taper connection. Yes that would be beyond the capability of my equipment. I would need a CNC grinder and the proper gauges to make that trigonal taper.
Great video Peter as always. I never would have guessed that someone would make their own heat shrink tool holders, although they are really not complicated, thinking about it 😅. Do you have an idea why the capto-tooling you were showing at the beginning is that expensive? Even the blank is not a bargain. Is the capto C8 perhaps still not that common?
Capro is pricey because it's a complex shape and ground. The old system varilock was more simple and I loved that system because you could easy make your own tools for it. Capto not so much without blanks. But capto is the best system out there forsure
I think your holders runout is better than a factory made , i'd be tempted to check against a similar lenght factory made . Amazing Work as always Peter .
Peter, what's the resolution of the indicator? Tenths? Microns? I think you are, probably, the best I've ever seen. Myself a machinist cnc, and manuals. Your craftsmanship is Supreme. God bless you for sharing your brain.
Genius! I hope you don't mind but I am going to show this video to our manager and possibly use your idea with a job we have troubles with all the time.
This is youtube at its best. Watched almost all of your videos. Found your Chanel Trough the garage tour video. Learned so much from you, thank your very much for sharing your knowledge. Great progression also with the editing and video quality. I started out doing some youtube videos a While ago, and even my crappy videos took some effort. Yours do hold a very high quality regards both content, editing and video quality so I can realy feel that you did put in alot of effort. In some videos you ask for what we viewers would like to see. I would like to see a video about steels and aloys that is Good for machining. I know it all depends on what the part will be for. But some kind of an overview of the most common stocks used in machining would be super nice. It is a djungle for me getting Into hobby machining. Have not found even one Good youtube video that presents a Good overview of this topic yet. Br thechipwelder
Great job of improvising to meet the need. Loved the Propane torch, lapping and resulting accuracy. Impressed. Was the holder attached to the machine where and how it would have been used to make the part? If so what machine was this?
As always fine machining and an informative video. I just got some of the iscar er32 shrink fit extensions, game changer for me , i could never get close to the collet nose and run smaller tools, now i can get small features in without having to increase my stickout to where other operations suffer. btw on smaller stuff like that my shrinker will get the holder cherry red so you might not have been too tight just not hot enough, but the lapping was a nice touch.
Was wondering that you just drilled the hole for the tool and didnt came after it with a reamer. Did you put the tool holder in the spindle for the finishing of the bore for better concentricity? I really appreciate your frequent uploads. The stuff you do is many levels above our shop.
Can the capto be turned 180 or 120 degrees in the spindle? Did it make a difference? Very impressive job nevertheless. I didn't think you'd achieve such a perfect result.
No you see the notch in the shank. There is a pin in the taper that restricts any other angle. But the taper itself is symmetrical. I have a test bar that has a notch in every face. It can clamp in all the three angles. It doesn’t seem to make a difference. But of course for tools you only want one orientation.
Nice work. FYI: Haimer sells those straight-shank heatshrink extension, too. They're usually not too bad on lead-time, either, though they are pricey. 78.5/8Z0.1/4Z.1 seems like what you'd want, though without modeling the profile it's hard to know. Just another option.
That Capto holder you had in the chuck looked like something I might could adapt to mount on the spindle of my boring mill. Probably would be no gain though as that spindle assembly is not that stiff a system to begin with.
I know the heat is supposed to stay in the chip, but I have to imagine those parts are warm to the touch when you're measuring them. Do you take the temperature and coefficient of thermal expansion into consideration when you're measuring those parts? I bet it would be relatively simply to create an excel spreadsheet that shows target measurement, material being machined, and temperature - shoot the part with a laser thermometer, measure, and then convert to room temp dimension. I realize I am probably overthinking this, but I've already typed it now. Great channel, great content - it is helping me a lot with pondering what parts to design, and what isn't realistic.
I machine parts in videos if possible without coolant. Just for the sake of the video. But I let them cool down or spray coolant to cool them before measure (You don't see that). Normally I would of course be running coolant and this wouldn't be a problem and I did for the other three parts in this video. I have also found those laser/infrared temp gauges don't work well on metals. But if you know the thermal expansion and temperature of the material it could be possible to calculate the change from room temp.
Well done Grasshopper. Guesstimating the proper temperature would be a good application for a Tempil crayon. Watching that machine turn and face a bar, is a great way to explain and demonstrate the difference between “speed” and rpm. When you can hear and see one remain the same while the other ramps up or down, it would help a lot. I had problems getting some people to understand the financial benefits of css over constant rpm setting.
I was planning to shape small grooves straight from the face into the relief. Three of them 120 deg spacing. The relief behind would allow coolant to flow into the grooves and blow down the shank of the tool. With the high pressure coolant.
Another excellent job Peter! Was that sensitive indicator in increments of 10 millionths of an inch? Just think how much precision it took to make that (mechanical) indicator!
excellent! Might just be a coincidence but notice that the runout is consistent with the "wave" in the heat coloring, wonder if that is where that extra tenth came from? Still, 1 tenth at 8.5" gage length is nothing to complain about!
Runout of less than 1/100mm is really good, considering the distance to the spindle bore. Bearings and spindle taper have to be perfect for 0 runout as well, a lot better than on my old ISO40 machines ;-)
Nice work , have made a lot of shrink tool holders like that for Seco here in France. You did it pretty well. Did you already use it ? I can't remember if it's the same steel between shrink and blanks.
I don't know what steel Sandvik uses for these blank holders. But I have made my own shrink extensions out of O1 drill rod un heat treated and they worked fine. No I haven't used them yet. But the milling will be light (How heavy could it be with 3/32, 1/16 and 1/32 ball mills) so I think it will be good. We shall see, In a future video. Thanks.
Well done! I now want to try this for my self made tooling system for my cnc converted mill. Can you give me some Information on the required nominal bore diameters for shrink fit holders?
For smaller diameters say 1/8" to 1/4". Around .0008" undersized. So for 3/16" like these .1869". For larger diameters around .001" under. But you have to try this out for yourself. Make a straight extension to experiment. You don't want to have to heat it red hot to get the tool in. If that's the case your bore is a little to small.
Hi Peter, have you considered using "super chatter free" or "Diemitech" by Mitech metals for your shrink extensions? Machinable and twice the modulus of steel. I have used it for grinding quills and boring bars with great success.
I have never used this material. I have used Tungsten before for boring bars. What is the expansion rate compared to carbide. Would heat release the tool OK.
That's quite spot on for run-out! "You're not gonna get that in a collet chuck" :-) I learn so much from your channel -- thanks! Do you machine it hard or soft? Is there any heat treat? (Other than the slight relaxing of heat shrinking the tool in there)
Most of my collet chucks are Big Kaiser (actually Big Daishowa). The best but also most expensive. But they don’t make one that will fit into where these have to go.
Are you talking about C5 live and turning tooling for a lathe turret? They use that here at Center-line it works great. There isn't really any draw back except maybe the price.
Yes, thats the one Peter. Thanks. Yea I see its not cheap new. Ill probably look at ebay first. The other machine has VDI40 and also KM40. The other one comes with some tooling. DA100, ER32, etc.
Have possibly a dumb question or series questions, just a hobbyist Machinist. I was wondering the age of that machine, and do they still make machines that large, I watched where you replace I believe the power unit and seeing how expensive that was, how much does one of these machines cost, and investment in tooling. You seem to make a lot of your own, is the tooling for that machine normally that expensive or does the companies have a gamete on it and can charge whatever they want?
Capto tooling is more expensive. Than say normal conical tapers. It might have something to do with the complexity of manufacturing it. But it is defiantly better. After using both kinds I believe it’s worth it. The connection is much stronger and it can be configured in many more ways than normal tools.
Search WFL Millturn on UA-cam, they make some comically large machines of this style and I think in one of their videos the sales guy commented that the machine could be delivered in as little as 18 months... I don't want to think about how expensive one of those is, the rigging cost alone is going to be more than most machines haha. I believe Peters mentioned it before but that machine new would be over 1M but its going to vary based on what bells and whistles you get. He got it used so less but I can't imagine magnitudes less. To get an idea for that type of stuff cruise around on Ebay and machine auction websites, most machine tool builders don't list new prices on their sites unfortunately
David Keefe the new model of this machine is Mazak e670H. Depending on the options is$950,000.00 to 1.2 million dollars. Than there is the foundation required around $20,000.00 for that. Depending on where you are and where the machine is coming from. Shipping and rigging cost me from Milwaukee to Houston $22,000.00. Ann I spent $80,000.00 on tooling to get going. So you can see you better have the work to to pay for this. Hope that gives you a idea.
@@EdgePrecision Thanks for sharing the #'s, its nice to know. Yup you got to have the work to justify it and it definitely seems like you do. We have a Haas VM3 and UMC750, fortunately neither required pouring foundation and each were only a few thousand to ship. We got the VM3 used and it cost a bit over what you initially spent on tooling...haha
All of the "BOOM" - none of the rediculous marketing.
moor BOOM actually
Cough titansofcnc cough
Boom Boom Boom Boom, I want you in my room..
@@ipadize Let's spend the night together
Always impresses me how accurate this monster machine is.
I love how he finished the bore with the tool on the spindle so it would be dead nuts on center
Peter is a machine!! :)
... If you know how to use it
I loved the story. You showed the problem, the solution, and the execution. Excellent.
"That's got runnout of about 4 atoms, so that's pretty good" --- "might be in the mixture of the metal and where the moon is right now" ----
What.....4 Adams....?
solid state solutions gonna give it to ya
Thanks Peter. I like the way you did the video switching from actual drilling to the simulation during the coolant spray. Nice touch!
Runout is phenomenal. Take care and have a good Christmas.
I second that.
And a third, that was very informative.
I fourth that
I plead the fifth
Hi Peter! From my small shop in Sweden I am as always mazed off the complexity off your work . I do grinding and toolmaking butt aim still amazed! Most off my work is out in 48h. and the bulk of my time is emergency fitting and welding on stuff that is never down. I do love your videos! They are like presents fore my sole.
When Edge says something is "pretty good" you know thats best you can get.
Yep, a couple microns short of perfection 👍
Yeah ... and that time he said “it is in the ballpark of zero” and it was 0.0000 ... :))
I always like when a top-end machining video starts with roughing and ends with lapping! Nice piece of work, Peter, I enjoy watching your videos. Cheers!
How you can achieve such accuracy with that big machine is amazing. Keep’em coming! Thanks.
Paul Mace because it’s not a haas
it's a very expensive machine
In general, bigger machine = more mass = more stable/rigid = more accuracy. Obviously the servos & feedback loops have to be built to take advantage of that, but getting accurate parts out of a big machine is easier than from a small one!
@@PeregrineBF Ahh No bigger the machine its alot harder to be more accurate
@@PeregrineBF the main reason is actually just the fact it's built with servos that can go to ten millionths resolution
Wow. It’s like watching an artist and an engineer work at the same time.
As always Peter thank you! Easily my most enjoyed you tube channel.
I couldnt help but notice the kurt vise fixture in the background. The versatility of this machine never stops to amaze. Charles
Not sure if you've seen it but he shows making that fixture, ua-cam.com/video/BmNm4-pdn8E/v-deo.html.
This was a top quality video showcasing the problem, potential solutions, and your approach to your solution. Amazing turnout results and an excellent outcome
When we have to heat up shrink holders with a torch at our shop, we spin it slowly in the manual lathe in order to heat the holder evenly. Works pretty well.
If you're doing this a lot why not use an induction heater?
Because my boss won't buy me one.
Have you calculated how much of your time you've wasted fucking with a torch vs a maritool induction heater @ $3500?
Blob87 Buying shrink fit holders and heating them with a torch is like buying a Ferrari and putting donut spares on it for tires. Unbelievable.
🤣🤣🤣
All this million dollar CNC and I expect the 4 figure inductive heat shrink station, then I see the Benzomatic torch! Classic!
Ted Saylor For real. Million dollar lathe and Fowler mics. They get the job done tho.
@@Thewaldo12345 Like over a foot from the spindle and 0.0001" runout. This guy KNOWS!!!
You the man Peter. by far my fav channel. Thanks
Always a pleasure watch a high precision engineer at work
I'm looking forward to seeing the next video, and that tool working.
Thank you for sharing your skill and knowledge 🇬🇧
Im glued to watching these videos of your latest job. The toolmaking side and your approach to the job is very educating. Even better than the super duplex job which was very interesting. Merry Christmas and thanks for posting .
Marry Christmas and God bless. Thanks for all the incredible videos and look forward to many more next year.
You're ingenuity is always fascinating! As a fellow machinist, these are always wonderful to watch.
I'm impressed at your work and the results of it Peter; happy holidays etc if we don't see you before then.
As a guy who used to do a ton of job shop work, and custom tools for nearly half the jobs, this makes me giddy. Love this stuff Peter, awesome content, and even better machining. Cheers and keep up the great work
Like everyone else says another great video.
Thanks for including the cost of those tool holders, I didn't realize how expensive they were
And that was an unmachined blank! And look how many is around that place! He must have mid 6 figures in various tooling, and that is amazing.
Great overlay at 7:40. perfect!
Swarfman64 I thought my phone’s screen broke for a second
What was that operation? It looked like he was boring a groove but I don't know why he'd want to do that
As usual in your videos I learned a little something. And I appreciate your time and effort that you put into sharing them an making them.
This reminded me when I made a shrinkfit extension, it’s.0002” under the actual shank size. Great work again Peter!
Yes, a tenth out 8.5” is a blessing. You should have been an astronaut !
Although this vid is a year old, I have used a styrofoam cup, can of compressed air turned upside down to dump liquid into cup, place tool into cup to get super cold, heat tool, drops right in. shrink one, expand the other. Can of compressed air works well too for when the reaming ferry shows up and makes holes just a hair undersized. Dump the cold stuff on your part till really cold, cycle start. Hole is now bigger
Works but quite an expensive tool if than you can't remove the endmill from the toolholder because you can't cool the endmill when it's inside.
Really cool thank you! Finish bore in the milling spindle was a big a-ha moment for me. Now that I see it I think I understand - shrink fit holders have the best runout because they are made of a single symmetrical part where other holder styles have many parts to them
Great job! Making tooling is always the funnest thing, IMO.
Very humbling to watch your work.
Just wow Thanks for all your vids this year I watch everything you post have a great Christmas and thanks again for all your uploads
This is beyond my comprehension. Yet everything looks so simple and easy, when you do it, and precision is always perfect at the end!
Very good idea 7:42 with the overlay! Great Video, as always, thank you!
Man hard turning is scary lol. Seeing those sparks coming off the tool would give me a heart attack
You mean 'spark attack' ?! ;-)
The whole time I was thinking its the grind, its the grind. Then you test the shank and boom...its the grind. Nice work! Your videos are amazing 👏
Thanks for the videos and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year !
Como siempre un trabajo con ejecucion perfecta..gracias por tu tiempo y por transmitir tu saber...felices fiestas amigo.
Good and precise job. Congrats!!!!
Truly impressive. I always learn something new watching your videos. Thank you 👍🏻
Thanks for taking the time!
Nice job Peter👍👍Great that you can make your own tooling when needed. Happy holidays 🌲
Thanks Bill, You too.
We are seeing the leading edge of CNC Machining here. Good to know you dont work for the almighty buck and put the work first.
So good Edge Precision!
Every time I watch one of your videos I just can't help wondering what a tooling designer at Ford or GM in the 1940s have thought if he saw it.
I've thought about that too, machinist and designers even from 40 years ago would be amazed by the machines and capabilities we have today. Heck they probably didn't have spindles that went over 5 or 10k
Witchcraft
Very nice work Peter! May I suggest lapping in the machine with the lap and the tool holder both rotating. That gives a better chance at not lapping the hole at an angle.
ATB, Robin
ROBRENZ thanks Robin. I will keep that in mind next time. All these holders are already being used in a setup right now. But I can see how that would improve the runout error. I would just have to figure out how to run both spindles at the same time. On this machine it’s kind of interlocked. You can mill or you can turn but it doesn’t like to rotate both spindles at the same time. This machine does have the hobbing option witch does allow both spindles to rotate in a sinked fashion. I have never used this function but possibly that could be utilized to make it work. It’s just you can’t rotate the turning spindle without having a tool orientated and clamped in the milling spindle. I know this sounds strange but that’s the way they made this machine.
@@EdgePrecision The most important part is that the toolholder you are lapping is turning. This insures you are not influencing the axis of the hole. If the lap is stationary that is ok and necking the lap to a 1*dia. engaged length will help to minimize any effects of misalignment of the lap to the part. If the lathe spindle is not locked you could just turn it by hand while the mill spindle is turning the toolholder. The whole point here is averaging all the alignment errors by having constantly changing orientations of the lap and part.
Yes I can see the logic in that. And if I ever make some more holders (The chance of this is good) I will do as you suggest. If I can figure out how to make the machine do it. The issues with this machine are. You cant run any spindle with the doors open, and you can only run the milling spindle if the C axis is engaged. Or the turning spindle if the milling spindle is clamped with what it thinks is a turning tool. The way I think I could do what you say is make a program that runs the milling spindle and command a movement in the C axis to rotate with the lap in the bore. While stroking the Z axis such that the lap covers the whole bores length. The more I think about this, I think this would be a most Ideal and repeatable way to do it. Much better than just using a hand drill the way I did in this video. With altering the program I could concentrate on certain areas of the bore if necessary to bring them to size. Thanks again Robin you have made me think about the process.
@@EdgePrecision if you hold the lap by just a little bit so it is very flexible you don't have to worry about the lap spinning. Its just technically better but not necessary. Spinning the part to do the lapping is a must.
A quick workaround would be to just lock the cordless drill or something in the chuck, lock the trigger with a cable tie and let it run. Not elegant but quick.
Beautiful work, thanks. Happy holidays and all the best from Panama.
I've seen this videos twice, I think you did a better job the 2nd time I watched it
Grate thought and amazing execution
Again good job Peter. Use made a few shrink holders in my life and it works good.
wow, that turned out excellent! Im sure if you had mentioned in a previous video that you had planned on doing this all you would have heard was reasons why it wouldnt work or why you couldnt do it. Excellent work as always Peter, thanks for putting out such great content. Cheers
Very nice Peter, first thought was the heat running up the tiny shank to change the hardness!! looks like you had it under control...merry xmas from the UK
Yes If there is any heat treat in the material this will soften it. But only in the heated area. This turns out not to be a problem with shrink holders.
You are The Jedi Master of Machining
Hey buddy just checking on you making sure everything's okay. Not looking for no new post just making sure you're all right. Hope to see you soon and I hope you're having an awesome new year
Thanks Don! I’m fine just been busy learning the new Esprit TNG software interface. In combination with this setup using all those special tools in the previous videos. New video coming soon explaining this and the new operation showing how these tools are used.
Fascinating as always. Now a question, not a criticism. Could you not make the whole Capto unit yourself, or are they too precise for your equipment? Or perhaps it's just not cost effective to do so?
If your talking about making the taper connection. Yes that would be beyond the capability of my equipment. I would need a CNC grinder and the proper gauges to make that trigonal taper.
Great video Peter as always. I never would have guessed that someone would make their own heat shrink tool holders, although they are really not complicated, thinking about it 😅.
Do you have an idea why the capto-tooling you were showing at the beginning is that expensive? Even the blank is not a bargain. Is the capto C8 perhaps still not that common?
There's probably some cost in a stress-free 12" long by 4" bar, even without the fancy milling on one end.
Capro is pricey because it's a complex shape and ground. The old system varilock was more simple and I loved that system because you could easy make your own tools for it. Capto not so much without blanks.
But capto is the best system out there forsure
precision isn't cheap
Description has it all, you are the man! Nice Job :)
Здравствуйте! Хорошая работа! Мы купили такую оправку под ф10. Месяц уже пилим нержавейку и фрезу не меняли.
I think your holders runout is better than a factory made , i'd be tempted to check against a similar lenght factory made .
Amazing Work as always Peter .
Peter, what's the resolution of the indicator? Tenths? Microns?
I think you are, probably, the best I've ever seen. Myself a machinist cnc, and manuals. Your craftsmanship is Supreme. God bless you for sharing your brain.
It’s a .0001” indicator.
Genius! I hope you don't mind but I am going to show this video to our manager and possibly use your idea with a job we have troubles with all the time.
Go for it!
Way to go do it yourself tooling excellent job thanks for the video.
This is youtube at its best. Watched almost all of your videos. Found your Chanel Trough the garage tour video. Learned so much from you, thank your very much for sharing your knowledge.
Great progression also with the editing and video quality. I started out doing some youtube videos a While ago, and even my crappy videos took some effort. Yours do hold a very high quality regards both content, editing and video quality so I can realy feel that you did put in alot of effort.
In some videos you ask for what we viewers would like to see. I would like to see a video about steels and aloys that is Good for machining. I know it all depends on what the part will be for. But some kind of an overview of the most common stocks used in machining would be super nice. It is a djungle for me getting Into hobby machining. Have not found even one Good youtube video that presents a Good overview of this topic yet.
Br thechipwelder
Great job of improvising to meet the need. Loved the Propane torch, lapping and resulting accuracy. Impressed. Was the holder attached to the machine where and how it would have been used to make the part? If so what machine was this?
As always fine machining and an informative video. I just got some of the iscar er32 shrink fit extensions, game changer for me , i could never get close to the collet nose and run smaller tools, now i can get small features in without having to increase my stickout to where other operations suffer. btw on smaller stuff like that my shrinker will get the holder cherry red so you might not have been too tight just not hot enough, but the lapping was a nice touch.
Thanks Corey, I also have quite a few Iscar ER32 Shrink extensions. They work great. I use them all the time.
WOW!!! Impressive... Tool holder manufactures have upside down smiley faces right now.... LOL
Was wondering that you just drilled the hole for the tool and didnt came after it with a reamer.
Did you put the tool holder in the spindle for the finishing of the bore for better concentricity?
I really appreciate your frequent uploads. The stuff you do is many levels above our shop.
Yes I wanted to finish the bore with the tool in the spindle it would run in. That way it would minimize the runout error.
Can the capto be turned 180 or 120 degrees in the spindle? Did it make a difference? Very impressive job nevertheless. I didn't think you'd achieve such a perfect result.
No you see the notch in the shank. There is a pin in the taper that restricts any other angle. But the taper itself is symmetrical. I have a test bar that has a notch in every face. It can clamp in all the three angles. It doesn’t seem to make a difference. But of course for tools you only want one orientation.
sometimes if your drilled hole is slightly off, the reamer will follow that...
@@dougankrum3328 okay i get it so it works just like a drill in that case
Thanks
Well planned and executed
Nice work. FYI: Haimer sells those straight-shank heatshrink extension, too. They're usually not too bad on lead-time, either, though they are pricey. 78.5/8Z0.1/4Z.1 seems like what you'd want, though without modeling the profile it's hard to know. Just another option.
Yes I do have some Haimer straight shank shrink extensions. But they are metric ones. I wasn't sure if they made Inch ones. Thanks Aaron.
That Capto holder you had in the chuck looked like something I might could adapt to mount on the spindle of my boring mill. Probably would be no gain though as that spindle assembly is not that stiff a system to begin with.
I think that's exactly what Sandvik makes it for.
Excellent work as always. That's why you get paid the big bucks....😁
Thanks for the video.
I know the heat is supposed to stay in the chip, but I have to imagine those parts are warm to the touch when you're measuring them. Do you take the temperature and coefficient of thermal expansion into consideration when you're measuring those parts? I bet it would be relatively simply to create an excel spreadsheet that shows target measurement, material being machined, and temperature - shoot the part with a laser thermometer, measure, and then convert to room temp dimension. I realize I am probably overthinking this, but I've already typed it now. Great channel, great content - it is helping me a lot with pondering what parts to design, and what isn't realistic.
I machine parts in videos if possible without coolant. Just for the sake of the video. But I let them cool down or spray coolant to cool them before measure (You don't see that). Normally I would of course be running coolant and this wouldn't be a problem and I did for the other three parts in this video. I have also found those laser/infrared temp gauges don't work well on metals. But if you know the thermal expansion and temperature of the material it could be possible to calculate the change from room temp.
@@EdgePrecision Thank you!
Well done Grasshopper. Guesstimating the proper temperature would be a good application for a Tempil crayon. Watching that machine turn and face a bar, is a great way to explain and demonstrate the difference between “speed” and rpm. When you can hear and see one remain the same while the other ramps up or down, it would help a lot. I had problems getting some people to understand the financial benefits of css over constant rpm setting.
Happy holidays!
Why did you have to back bore just inside the tool holder tip?
Great video as always Peter
I was planning to shape small grooves straight from the face into the relief. Three of them 120 deg spacing. The relief behind would allow coolant to flow into the grooves and blow down the shank of the tool. With the high pressure coolant.
@@EdgePrecision - What changed your mind? Would that screw up the shrink fit function?
No it will still work. I have some commercially made ones that have these coolant grooves. I may still do it.
i thought the overlay was video corruption for a second until my eyes processed what was going on, ha. nice touch, though.
Another excellent job Peter! Was that sensitive indicator in increments of 10 millionths of an inch? Just think how much precision it took to make that (mechanical) indicator!
.0001” per division. It’s a standard Iterapid indicator.
excellent! Might just be a coincidence but notice that the runout is consistent with the "wave" in the heat coloring, wonder if that is where that extra tenth came from? Still, 1 tenth at 8.5" gage length is nothing to complain about!
That might be possible. I will check that on the other holders when I mount tools in them. Thanks Chris.
Nice work. Nothing in the Iscar Shrink In range that would suit? ST 25X200 SRK looks close
They do make some Capto 6 shrink holders. But nothing that has this projection and they would require a C8 to C6 reducer to fit my spindle.
Runout of less than 1/100mm is really good, considering the distance to the spindle bore. Bearings and spindle taper have to be perfect for 0 runout as well, a lot better than on my old ISO40 machines ;-)
Nice work , have made a lot of shrink tool holders like that for Seco here in France. You did it pretty well. Did you already use it ? I can't remember if it's the same steel between shrink and blanks.
I don't know what steel Sandvik uses for these blank holders. But I have made my own shrink extensions out of O1 drill rod un heat treated and they worked fine. No I haven't used them yet. But the milling will be light (How heavy could it be with 3/32, 1/16 and 1/32 ball mills) so I think it will be good. We shall see, In a future video. Thanks.
After all that, I would break the endmill on my first cut. :)
Well done! I now want to try this for my self made tooling system for my cnc converted mill. Can you give me some Information on the required nominal bore diameters for shrink fit holders?
For smaller diameters say 1/8" to 1/4". Around .0008" undersized. So for 3/16" like these .1869". For larger diameters around .001" under. But you have to try this out for yourself. Make a straight extension to experiment. You don't want to have to heat it red hot to get the tool in. If that's the case your bore is a little to small.
Awesome job!
Great video. Thanks.
Hi Peter, have you considered using "super chatter free" or "Diemitech" by Mitech metals for your shrink extensions? Machinable and twice the modulus of steel. I have used it for grinding quills and boring bars with great success.
I have never used this material. I have used Tungsten before for boring bars. What is the expansion rate compared to carbide. Would heat release the tool OK.
@@EdgePrecision Good thing you thought about that , its roughly the same as tungsten carbide. That would not shrink so well.
That's quite spot on for run-out! "You're not gonna get that in a collet chuck" :-)
I learn so much from your channel -- thanks!
Do you machine it hard or soft? Is there any heat treat? (Other than the slight relaxing of heat shrinking the tool in there)
I machine it in what ever the blank holders come in hardness. I'm not really sure what that is, but it isn't hard to machine.
@@EdgePrecision and no heat treat other than the shrink?
I wonder if that would make it even more rigid...
Well done sir, well done :)
That shrink fit probably runs straighter than the double capto option.
It may. But the Capto system runs very true.
Impressive work.
Hi Peter, have you looked at Big Kaiser's collet systems and other holder types? They have incredible runout accuracy.
Most of my collet chucks are Big Kaiser (actually Big Daishowa). The best but also most expensive. But they don’t make one that will fit into where these have to go.
@@EdgePrecision glad to read your holders are Big, they're all I run now. Too bad MST doesn't make capto holders, their shrink fit tooling is great
Thanks for the great video! Did you have to do much tweaking to the post processor in Fusion to get clean code?
I haven actually use any Fusion cod on the Mazak yet. But on this job I plan to try some. I will let people know in the video how that works. Thanks.
Nice work man
I'm going to be getting several newer machines this year.. one with C5 tooling. Would love to know what to watch out for.
Are you talking about C5 live and turning tooling for a lathe turret? They use that here at Center-line it works great. There isn't really any draw back except maybe the price.
Yes, thats the one Peter. Thanks. Yea I see its not cheap new. Ill probably look at ebay first. The other machine has VDI40 and also KM40. The other one comes with some tooling. DA100, ER32, etc.
Have possibly a dumb question or series questions, just a hobbyist Machinist. I was wondering the age of that machine, and do they still make machines that large, I watched where you replace I believe the power unit and seeing how expensive that was, how much does one of these machines cost, and investment in tooling. You seem to make a lot of your own, is the tooling for that machine normally that expensive or does the companies have a gamete on it and can charge whatever they want?
Capto tooling is more expensive. Than say normal conical tapers. It might have something to do with the complexity of manufacturing it. But it is defiantly better. After using both kinds I believe it’s worth it. The connection is much stronger and it can be configured in many more ways than normal tools.
Search WFL Millturn on UA-cam, they make some comically large machines of this style and I think in one of their videos the sales guy commented that the machine could be delivered in as little as 18 months... I don't want to think about how expensive one of those is, the rigging cost alone is going to be more than most machines haha.
I believe Peters mentioned it before but that machine new would be over 1M but its going to vary based on what bells and whistles you get. He got it used so less but I can't imagine magnitudes less. To get an idea for that type of stuff cruise around on Ebay and machine auction websites, most machine tool builders don't list new prices on their sites unfortunately
David Keefe the new model of this machine is Mazak e670H. Depending on the options is$950,000.00 to 1.2 million dollars. Than there is the foundation required around $20,000.00 for that. Depending on where you are and where the machine is coming from. Shipping and rigging cost me from Milwaukee to Houston $22,000.00. Ann I spent $80,000.00 on tooling to get going. So you can see you better have the work to to pay for this. Hope that gives you a idea.
@@EdgePrecision Thanks for sharing the #'s, its nice to know. Yup you got to have the work to justify it and it definitely seems like you do. We have a Haas VM3 and UMC750, fortunately neither required pouring foundation and each were only a few thousand to ship. We got the VM3 used and it cost a bit over what you initially spent on tooling...haha
that is awesome. Love these videos
Highly impressive
Merry Christmas Peter! Thanks for your videos! Make a christmas special? ☺ greetings from germany! 🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄
Thank you! and a Merry Christmas to you A.K.
Thanks for the video.
Why did you take so much off the front? wouldent a longer tool with a longer taper be better?