Donna feels that her family is cursed; well you have Dan Markel's blood on your hands. What do you expect? There was absolutely no reason to take his life in such a brutal manner and deprive his children of their father. People reap what they sow
Speaking of her saying Dan was haunting her ,well I 100 percent believe that he is because I wear these amazing ear buds and I can hear evps all over this case. I heard creepy evp in wendi's interrogation . It was a male voice and it said clear as day saying " all smushed up" One was a female whisper that said " you ought to ' when she was talking to Jane. I also hear them all over the prison calls and even during trial. I had three people comment me back telling me that they heard it as well. I heard evps in the watts case when the two women and trauma dog were searching the house and all the evps were things shanaan watts (mom who was killed) would say. I suggest checking it out, ever since then I can just here them automatically. One of the jailhouse calls when he's talking about appeals I heard one say " give it up"...I could go on and on so please let me know if someone hears them with ear buds. He was a fighter for his beliefs so I see him fighting for justice..
The older brother came to Harvey’s Birthday party. After Dan was killed, he tried to talk to his family about what happened to Dan. Nobody would talk to him, so he stopped communicating with them. They felt he was too concerned about what had happened to Dan. He made a good decision. I heard him and his wife on the podcast Over My Dead Body
Smartest move the oldest son could make is to keep his wife and kids far away from that toxic family.I hope that their lovely Wendi gets locked up next!How in God's name can Wendi look those poor boys in the eye being a party to their dads murder?
Charlie doesn’t even profess his innocence to his mother right after the conviction. A truly innocent person would be in shock and quick to tell loved ones how they are innocent not try to understand how the jury returned with a guilty verdict and discuss technicalities.
I hope, if any juror was to second guess him or herself, they listen to these calls. It seems Charlie's real defense was "I paid for the best consultant and attorney so I should win". His post conviction calls are even more telling than the wiretaps imo. I wish they could be used in his appeals.
Maybe he should have thought about what jail would be like BEFORE he had someone killed. Seriously listening to Donna and Charlie talk like he should be treated differently than any other convicted murderer just shows how out of touch or delusional they really are.
I worked 30 years in the California prison system, and I'll tell you the beds, shoes clothing anything and everything sucks. Everything takes hours. All they do is wait, wait, and wait. Nothing is on time. The food is terrible. If you have a toothache, it's pulled. If it's raining and cold and you're outside without a jacket tough you could be outside wet and cold for hours. Prison is absolutely no cakewalk.
should have thought about that before they murdered the ex brother in law. Charlie was so arrogant during his trial, and Donna was equally arrogant in her court appearance.
Wendi is 100% just as culpable as the rest of them. She is the ONLY person who could have provided Dan's travel plans. Plus her police interview the day of has guilt written all over it. I watched it before I knew anything about this case and I thought she was lying and faking.
Yes yes yes. Police interrogation of Wendi the day of the crime has SO MANY red flags. She’s had years to refine her answers since then, but she incriminated herself several times in that first interview. Body language, guilt knowledge, over-explaining/attempting to provide an alibi… messy messy
Sooooo true. And she’s. So arrogant and entitled!! It’s on her face all the time! You can’t wipe off bullshit and sarcasm! Wendy is so guilty but she’s the only one that stuck to NOT being on the phone - that’s all she’s got! But she’s tripped up enough to jail her for sure!
I don't care what anybody says and I'm sure many people can agree with me on this. Charlie is not a sociopath. This man loves absolutely loves dogs. He's still laments the loss of his beloved dog that passed a year before he was arrested, and worried about the well-being and where the dog he last adopted would go. This was a very situational crime. Charlie himself is not violent. He's not capable of violence. The reality is that Wendi was pulling the strings. She fed information to her neurotic & overbearing mother that she was being mistreated and abused by Dan markel. This sent her mother into a tailspin. Her mother would speak to Charlie every single day, the dutiful son that he was. Donna fed this information to Charlie, who has OCD, and began to constantly worry for his sister. By the nature of hearing him speak, you can hear the obsessive-compulsive disorder, repeating himself over and over again and talking at length about the same thing. I am not as bad as him but I can certainly appreciate what he's doing because I do have OCD to a lesser degree. Donna and Wendi made it seem that baby sister needed protection, and somebody needed to step up to save her. Charlie stepped up to the plate for his mother and sister. Because he's not capable of violence, he had to solicit other people to do it. Because Wendy had so well dehumanized Dan Markel, and Charlie never knew him well & was never close with him, it was easy to solicit someone to commit the murder because it was very impersonal for him since Dan was never close to him and he only met him a handful of times. Therefore, I wish Donna had stepped up as soon as Charlie was arrested and told both her son and her daughter to testify against her so she could take wrap. Now that is too late. At the least I hope that Charlie decides to negotiate a sentence reduction and provide tangible evidence of Wendi's involvement to the prosecution. IMO, Justice will never be served if Wendy remains free and Charlie does life. I honestly will never get over it if that happens. Wendi is very smart, she strategic, she's manipulative, and she's calculated. I would also add that for anybody alleging that Charlie was racist for making comments about the jury, that is bogus. He made comments about white Southerners too. He was not being arrogant, he clearly stated that these people are so different from me that they probably think I'm some rich Jewish white guy and look at me like an Alien. It is normal to wonder about these things. Look at the OJ Simpson verdict. Everybody in their right mind agreed that were it not for an all low-income black jury, that he would have never been acquitted. If OJ had a mixed-race middle class or upper class jury, they would have not acquitted him. Tone of voice and how things are said are very important. Lastly, for all those saying that Charlie is arrogant and thinks he's above others I completely disagree. In fact, it is said by many that Dan Markel carried himself with a degree of arrogance, & only associated with highly educated people. I'm not saying he was a bad guy by any measure, I'm merely pointing this out. Charlie had friends in all different sorts of places. He didn't care about status or accolades to be his friend, nor did he see himself as superior to others. He did however believe that his money would protect him. There is a difference between these two things.
Wendi is showing guilt by cutting off communication with her parents. An innocent person would show compassion and wouldn’t feel paranoid about being found out.
I’m glad you referred to the boys as the Markel boys! It was so wrong for them to change their names. To take their birth right away from them is just awful. Safe to say Donna Adelson is the worst or one of the worst Mother in Laws around!
@@EllEss331yes both of them are the worst mother in laws have to offer. Senseless murders on behalf of these women… If Donna and Angela’s life depended on them listening the first time, neither would survive.
They can get their real name back when they are 18. I'm sure it's tough on them. Hard to imagine what they hear in their lives each day. It can't be a total vacuum... at least I hope. May they find love and support.
I know many people who’ve changed their young kids names after a death or a divorce because it’s easier with identifying your children at school or in a medical situation, etc. Don’t be subconsciously manipulated by, Georgia’s narrative & her sneaky way of inserting biased words like “eliminate” in her diatribes.
@@GirlfromFinland @mortalclown3812 Wendi is guilty. Therre is so much which she contributed to this case. However everything she did was conversations between the brother and mother. She didn't reply the emails or send texts messages. There is no way her own family can implicate her. That doesn't mean Wendi is innocent and distancing herself from her family.
For anyone who thinks Wendi didn't know about the murder plot .... perhaps you could explain how Wendi was trying to frame Jeff Lacosse (before the murder) .... without knowing about the plan?
She also moved down, closer to her parents, soon after he was killed, and after people started being arrested, she cut ties with her family..Jeff Lacosse, said she lies about every.. it’s just my opinion, but believe she told her mom and brother, her husband would never allow her to move there, which more than likely set the ball in motion.. could be wrong, but they all seem to be pretty selfish😢
So proud to be a part of the LYK fam! I’m sorry I can’t give to others. It really does make me sad. I’m on SS and have some health problems. But I will ALWAYS be a part of the family, even if I’m not a member. Love you all! 🥰
Do you have your "Receive Gifted Memberships" toggle on?? During a live stream there's a dollar sign on the chat line. If you tap that it'll take you to another box that gives you a membership gift option and you turn that toggle on and it allows you to be gifted a membership to any channel that you are a subscriber of. Leave that toggle on and good chance that you're going to get a gift of a membership! Happy Holidays and good luck!
Thank you. Yes, I do have it on and have been gifted by several and am so very grateful. I’d love to be able to pay it forward is what I mean. Merry merry to you and yours. See you in the next live. 💛LYK family!
Wendi was equally and encouraged the hit on Dan. Wendi is a brilliant sociopath & extremely calculating. She got what she wanted then she put lawyers & distance between her key players in carrying out her kill & and iced them out. She’s very smart, manipulative and calculating and knew better than to ever put anything in writing except how she's innocent. Any type of correspondence when presented, she chose to articulate her innocence, which is a lie! I followed this case for two years, and when I first started watching it, I thought for sure Wendy was innocent there’s far too many facts that clearly implicate Wendi.
I have started to think that Wendi was the mastermind manipulated her parents on how awful Dan Markel was, manipulated parents (with unhealthy relationship to son) manipulate Charlie to start the ball rolling in Dans murder. Wendi, free of ex husband, now tosses brother and parents to the ditch as they are of no more use to her. She kept herself "clean" so that she could walk away with everything she wanted.
I took Donna saying "I bet you have a lot to think about" as a veiled threat to Wendi that she better play along or else they might talk about her involvement.
Wendi kmows it is a matter of time before they come knocking . Maybe a deal will be made to Donna to turn on daughter . That would turn this into a media circus .
Donna reminds me of my late father's mistress. She was a narcissist abuser who would ask for help with computer stuff and then try to sell me healing crystals for her MLM schemes. She would always try to suck people in with the little helpless mouse ploy and think she was actually fooling people. After my dad passed I completely cut contact with her and she went into a narcissist rage and tried calling the cops on me because I wouldn't give back the things my dad left me. She thought the conditions of me receiving his things was that I would basically become her new abuse victim. Horrible women.
I think Wendi is just as guilty as Charlie and Donna. However, she’s a lawyer and knows exactly what to say to protect herself whether it’s truthful or not. I also believe that she learned to be cruel from Donna. Just like how Donna wanted to do cruel things to hurt Dan, Wendi can be just as cruel by not contacting her family. Just like Donna only wants what is good for Donna, Wendi only wants what’s good for herself.
As bad as the Adelsons are, at least they seem to genuinely care about each other. Wendi doesn’t even have that going for her. She’d alienate them in a heart beat if it meant a slightly better chance of not going to prison.
Wendi knows what to say so well she implied that Charlie could have murdered Dan in her police interview. He was one of the first ppl she gave to investigators.
What if, Wendi is COMPLETELY innocent in all of this? Can you imagine being betrayed by EVERYONE you ever loved? Even, Dan was going after her for everything! He was even going after her law license which is her livelihood. ANYONE who LOVES their children would NEVER go after a former spouse’s ability to financially provide a good home for their children. Not saying, Dan, should have ever been harmed. However, it seems like, Wendi, has been burned by many people in her life & people she doesn’t even know.
@Pammerrigan wow such a bad take. You need to go back and watch her interrogations and also her courtroom appearances. Your opinion will drastically change!!
I am extatic with the success of your channel. I am not surprised. I have been here from your beginning. I subbed to "Surviving the Surviror". Awesome Channel. The way you handled yourself and was so humbled to a Superior peer? Was humbling. You made your mark. You are a gem as an attorney. You will hit 1 million. ❤
Peter, there were several times when the actual call was terminated, but Donna didn't actually realise and hadn't ended her end of the call while simultaneously engaging in highly incriminating conversation with those present, much of which was a direct result of law enforcement being drawn into action. And although Dan Rashbaum was previously a prosecutor, and a very successful one at that, however, this should never be assumed that it would automatically make a former prosecutor a similarly successful defense lawyer, added to that the fact that DR has never actually been a defense lawyer, much less in the very high stakes of a murder trial, and the Adelesons most certainly exercised poor judgement when it came to the most important aspect when accused of murder, that of your defense counsel who quite literally has the capability to either send, or keep you out of prison for the rest of your life, why anyone would cut corners for the sake of the comfort that existing friendships and familiarity may initially provide, you'll most certainly pay the price in the long run as nothing else can compensate for that of intimate and learned knowledge of effectively navigating a murder trial, which should not be a beginners course for your defense counsel.
Didn't he represent the school cop who was charged with not protecting the students during the mass shooting(also in Florida). The cop was aquitted. I can't remember if it was Dan as his lawyer.
To your point Peter, Wendy is smart, but not smart enough. As a juror having heard how close she and her mom were supposed to be, she writes this as a LETTER to her mom to try and show she was not involved. Nope not buying it. Lots to hear still of course, but her driving by the house ok that might be habit, but after seeing the police presence, not freaking out calling Dan to find out if her kids were ok? To me she didn’t have to call since she knew about the hit. Boom drop the Mike. Merry Christmas!
It's unbelievable that she doesn't feel overwhelming guilt, if not for Dan Markel's murder, at least for the fact that her son is suffering because of what she harped on for him to do.
@@Creative-ChaosI’ve thought the same. It’s very generous so I didn’t want to be the unpopular opinion, but it’s also strange, it seems a bit excessive sometimes. But whatever, to each their own
Peter, you missed a VERY important part of this call at 41:06 where Donna mutters "Yes you were" in response to Wendy denying all involvement. Edit: you can hear Donna read Wendy's denial and then say" Yes you were" (meaning yes, you [Wendy] were involved) without the pausing at 41:47
42:20. If you listen further - Donna continues to read the text message and she makes a 2nd “comment” or “aside”. When she does, she says, “Again, I didn’t say that”. The use of the word l “again” signals that whatever she is saying here is in agreement with what she said in her 1st aside.
Nope wrong -- there is a channel that does voice recording analysis and a channle that is not bias either way. I came upon it yet don’t recall the name. She does NOT say that. YET groupthink-ears ARE convinced she did.
Was eager to hear your thoughts on these. I attended a panel last night where Mrs Ruth, Dan’s mom spoke & the calls were brought up. She was so GRACIOUS in her response 🙏
There was virtually no chance in hell Donna Adelson's hour long Hot Mic phone call/confession would be recorded. Or how quickly these after verdict calls were made public. But it happend. One of the most intense, bizarre, and most interesting things I think I've ever heard
The hot mic is indeed bizarre and intetesting because in this case they thought the line was cut off. But all the rest of these calls are garbage. They are using them to put their own narrative out there. It's PR and conditioning future juries. They know they are being recorded and released to the public. Wendi was advised by her attorney to say she is innocent and had nothing to do with it to Donna on the phone. These calls are ridiculous at this point.
It is wild, but makes total sense. They are entitled and not that smart but I couldnt believe how they would talk about fleeing and stuff. Now the world knows how they played themselves.
LOL Donna leaving the phone on and Harvey picking it up 😂 my dear god, 🥴Charlie is probably like MOM what in the F&?! Were you thinking???!!!! I mean really … just kept talking and talking’ those prosecutors were like YES 🙌🏼
Peter’s comment about his dad’s calls he butt dials 🤣🤣🤣🤣 my mother in law does that as well. I can only assume Donna was just going to town talking without hanging up the phone lol 😂
Dan R told Donna that she might get away with leaving the country. According to one of her phone calls with Charlie. Dan R told Donna "that she might get away with it". (leaving the country). Can someone explain Harvey to me?? He obviously knew from day one what Donna and Charlie were up to.
Donna, tears and whining. She never learned it doesn't manipulate anyone but her family into action. Wendi's lawyer probably told her, if you talk to your family I will not represent you.
I think this is hilarious. Sounds like Wendi did a "Donna" to the whole family. The fruit does not fall far from the tree. Donna is in actuality, furious with Wendi. So many manipulations on display.
It’s so heartbreaking that this family was so loving towards each other. Like if you managed to not get shunned or murdered, you were good. It just makes it so sad for the innocent victims like the kids seeing all that fall apart.
What I find strange is that Wendi never mentioned her ex as possibly being involved with Dan’s death but she told their mutual friends that the police said he was a suspect, which was a lie.
Wendi screwed up big time when she drove past the crime scene, and never told her family. And they are mad as hell that she did it. They didn’t know until she was cross examined. How does she explain that reasonably?
This family is so full of corruption...and unfortunately Wendy is the only smart one who has kept her mouth shut. Yeah, she had to testify, but she is downright defiant, and hasn't had the backs of those who took her children in... her own parents! Her cutting ties with them, and stopping all communication is the one and only thing she's done right. Don't get me wrong - she's guilty as sin and we all know it. But the rest of them have flapped their gums for the whole world to hear!
She's an attorney so she knows to shut up and not talk about the case with family. I do think it's hilarious that she stated she was innocent and had nothing to do with this murder to Donna on the phone, though. This was clearly advised and planned by her and her attorney. They know calls may be recorded so they said let's go put that on record. Blatantly transparent. She's guilty as sin, but has more real world and legal intelligence than her Mom and brother. They grossly overestimate their own intelligence and are too enamored with themselves. That's why they can't stop gabbing.
Thank you Peter for continuing to cover this case and explain the legal process to all of us! 💗 In case you don’t have any more videos before Christmas, I hope that your family and you have a very Merry Christmas! 💞
The thing about Wendi is that even if she did not participate directly (which I believe she was a participant), her children will always have a bit of distrust towards her. If my father was killed, I would be obsessed with learning everything, specially if basically everyone on my mother's side had been prosecuted/incarcerated. In regards to a relation with her sons, Wendi is doomed, no matter what happens to her.
What circumstantial evidence do I see that Wendi is guilty: 1. Wendi going so far out of her way to go to the crime scene, see what was going on at least close to the house where her children were staying and not ringing & checking on them. This alone gets me to beyond reasonable doubt 2. In Rivera's interview he said that he saw Wendi Adelson the day before the killing (difficult to prove) & Magbanua confirmed with he & Garcia that "the lady" was checking up on them. I would like to know more about this and hope that the prosecutors have explored it in great detail. 3. That Wendi seemed to set up Jeff LaCasse to take the fall. On the first (aborted) trip the car that was hired was substantively similar to the one Jeff drove. Wendy seemed to not be overly interested in Jeff, then suddenly was interested on the day she questioned him about what time he was leaving for his trip and specifically which route he would take and the murder coincided with the time that Jeff would have been driving close to the scene if he had not decided to change his plans. 4. Jeff offered to buy Wendi a new TV and she refused, insisting that she keep the broken one for "weeks" before her mother organised a repair man. It would have been much more reasonable for Wendi to get a repair man in Tallahassee than her mother in Miami 5. Jeff felt that the way Wendi described how the TV was broken was not consistent with the damage he saw and he thought it looked more like damage that an adult had done deliberately. 6. Wendi bought Bulleit Bourbon. This is a small detail, but an important one in my opinion. I would love to see the invite to the "stock the bar party" that specified her to buy Bulleit Bourbon! I think that is enough to arrest her, but I suspect the prosecution is going to wait & see what happens with Donna, especially as some of these calls make me think Donna could open her big blabber mouth. She sounds particularly unhappy with Wendi and possibly so is Charlie.
'i guess you have a lot to think about.' Donna to Wendy via texts which she is reading to Harvey and an un known woman on a call she didn't know was being recorded still.
From the calls I’ve heard .. i think If given the option Charlie would flip.: he talked about how Katy testified and how they could end up giving her 20 years and how many years she’s already done and what she’d have left, and also how much he talks about Wendi’s book and her being at the scene of the crime.
Roman is Charlie's son's name. She's moving assets around and setting up trusts for Charlie's kid and Wendi's kids. She's upset with Wendi because Wendi won't talk to her, and Donna wants her to know where everything is.
Rewatch here. Amazing to me what people think they can get away with and how entitled. One of the most outrageous things is when they changed the kids last name co
Personally, I think they treated Wendi like a little princess. I think she knew what they were up to but they kept her out of SOME details. They knew it was something that would help her and they knew she couldn’t care less if he was killed.
Peter your channel and STS is the most educational, informative channels I watch daily. Appreciate your expertise and keep doing this! It truly educates every single day!
Absolute favorite LYK yet! Merry Christmas to all ar Tragos law and the CYK family which im superb ly thrilled to b a part of BTW! Be well everyone, also, drive safe over the holidays
I think the prosecution has a lot on Wendi but Wendi has learned from her mistakes and is trying to undo her mistakes. She knows her family is loose lipped on phone and his making the right decision. The problem is Donna won't see her grandchildren anymore UNLESS she makes a deal fat deal with Georgia. If she got a probation deal to flip on Wendi shed do it.
My Ex didn't end a call once so I heard him laughing and shit talking to his friend about how stupid I was believing his BS lies. Yep, he's an EX.
Good for you!
Donna feels that her family is cursed; well you have Dan Markel's blood on your hands. What do you expect? There was absolutely no reason to take his life in such a brutal manner and deprive his children of their father. People reap what they sow
Speaking of her saying Dan was haunting her ,well I 100 percent believe that he is because I wear these amazing ear buds and I can hear evps all over this case. I heard creepy evp in wendi's interrogation . It was a male voice and it said clear as day saying " all smushed up" One was a female whisper that said " you ought to ' when she was talking to Jane. I also hear them all over the prison calls and even during trial. I had three people comment me back telling me that they heard it as well. I heard evps in the watts case when the two women and trauma dog were searching the house and all the evps were things shanaan watts (mom who was killed) would say. I suggest checking it out, ever since then I can just here them automatically. One of the jailhouse calls when he's talking about appeals I heard one say " give it up"...I could go on and on so please let me know if someone hears them with ear buds. He was a fighter for his beliefs so I see him fighting for justice..
@@daybyday0731 What is evps?
@catherflorence761 Not all the time. The majority of murders in the US go unsolved.
@@DannyBoy777777 That is so sad. I believe in my heart that some other form of justice or karma gets them in the end.
How is Charlies body deteriorating?
The older brother came to Harvey’s Birthday party. After Dan was killed, he tried to talk to his family about what happened to Dan. Nobody would talk to him, so he stopped communicating with them. They felt he was too concerned about what had happened to Dan. He made a good decision. I heard him and his wife on the podcast Over My Dead Body
Hey thanks I am gonna look for that podcast.
Running to find that podcast!
Oh to be a fly on the wall in their house after Donna's arrest. He's smart to stay away.
@@elizabethmccready
💯
The single Adelson with a core of morality. Blessings to him.
Smartest move the oldest son could make is to keep his wife and kids far away from that toxic family.I hope that their lovely Wendi gets locked up next!How in God's name can Wendi look those poor boys in the eye being a party to their dads murder?
Charlie doesn’t even profess his innocence to his mother right after the conviction. A truly innocent person would be in shock and quick to tell loved ones how they are innocent not try to understand how the jury returned with a guilty verdict and discuss technicalities.
I hope, if any juror was to second guess him or herself, they listen to these calls. It seems Charlie's real defense was "I paid for the best consultant and attorney so I should win". His post conviction calls are even more telling than the wiretaps imo. I wish they could be used in his appeals.
Maybe he should have thought about what jail would be like BEFORE he had someone killed. Seriously listening to Donna and Charlie talk like he should be treated differently than any other convicted murderer just shows how out of touch or delusional they really are.
That's the funniest part of all..Charlie & Donna realizing they aren't special people after all 😉
But he was never gonna be caught so he thought.
Well who’d a thunk that the cops had so many resources to catch those that shoot prominent members of the public in the head?
I worked 30 years in the California prison system, and I'll tell you the beds, shoes clothing anything and everything sucks. Everything takes hours. All they do is wait, wait, and wait. Nothing is on time. The food is terrible. If you have a toothache, it's pulled. If it's raining and cold and you're outside without a jacket tough you could be outside wet and cold for hours. Prison is absolutely no cakewalk.
American prisons are inhumane and should be abolished.
Check out prison in Norway and Finland. Not too bad at all.
Nor should it be. She put someone in the ground. Every day she has lived since then is undeserved.
should have thought about that before they murdered the ex brother in law. Charlie was so arrogant during his trial, and Donna was equally arrogant in her court appearance.
@@sallya.6944 did they really think they wouldn't get caught?? SMH
Wendi is 100% just as culpable as the rest of them. She is the ONLY person who could have provided Dan's travel plans. Plus her police interview the day of has guilt written all over it. I watched it before I knew anything about this case and I thought she was lying and faking.
Yes yes yes. Police interrogation of Wendi the day of the crime has SO MANY red flags. She’s had years to refine her answers since then, but she incriminated herself several times in that first interview. Body language, guilt knowledge, over-explaining/attempting to provide an alibi… messy messy
Wendi was trying to set up the new boyfriend Jeff Lacasse. He was saved by leaving the night before.
Sooooo true. And she’s. So arrogant and entitled!! It’s on her face all the time! You can’t wipe off bullshit and sarcasm! Wendy is so guilty but she’s the only one that stuck to NOT being on the phone - that’s all she’s got! But she’s tripped up enough to jail her for sure!
@@sallya.6944Jeff was saved for sure. Devine intervention.
You got that right
I don't care what anybody says and I'm sure many people can agree with me on this. Charlie is not a sociopath. This man loves absolutely loves dogs. He's still laments the loss of his beloved dog that passed a year before he was arrested, and worried about the well-being and where the dog he last adopted would go. This was a very situational crime. Charlie himself is not violent. He's not capable of violence.
The reality is that Wendi was pulling the strings. She fed information to her neurotic & overbearing mother that she was being mistreated and abused by Dan markel. This sent her mother into a tailspin. Her mother would speak to Charlie every single day, the dutiful son that he was. Donna fed this information to Charlie, who has OCD, and began to constantly worry for his sister. By the nature of hearing him speak, you can hear the obsessive-compulsive disorder, repeating himself over and over again and talking at length about the same thing. I am not as bad as him but I can certainly appreciate what he's doing because I do have OCD to a lesser degree. Donna and Wendi made it seem that baby sister needed protection, and somebody needed to step up to save her. Charlie stepped up to the plate for his mother and sister. Because he's not capable of violence, he had to solicit other people to do it. Because Wendy had so well dehumanized Dan Markel, and Charlie never knew him well & was never close with him, it was easy to solicit someone to commit the murder because it was very impersonal for him since Dan was never close to him and he only met him a handful of times. Therefore, I wish Donna had stepped up as soon as Charlie was arrested and told both her son and her daughter to testify against her so she could take wrap. Now that is too late. At the least I hope that Charlie decides to negotiate a sentence reduction and provide tangible evidence of Wendi's involvement to the prosecution. IMO, Justice will never be served if Wendy remains free and Charlie does life. I honestly will never get over it if that happens. Wendi is very smart, she strategic, she's manipulative, and she's calculated.
I would also add that for anybody alleging that Charlie was racist for making comments about the jury, that is bogus. He made comments about white Southerners too. He was not being arrogant, he clearly stated that these people are so different from me that they probably think I'm some rich Jewish white guy and look at me like an Alien. It is normal to wonder about these things. Look at the OJ Simpson verdict. Everybody in their right mind agreed that were it not for an all low-income black jury, that he would have never been acquitted. If OJ had a mixed-race middle class or upper class jury, they would have not acquitted him.
Tone of voice and how things are said are very important.
Lastly, for all those saying that Charlie is arrogant and thinks he's above others I completely disagree. In fact, it is said by many that Dan Markel carried himself with a degree of arrogance, & only associated with highly educated people. I'm not saying he was a bad guy by any measure, I'm merely pointing this out. Charlie had friends in all different sorts of places. He didn't care about status or accolades to be his friend, nor did he see himself as superior to others. He did however believe that his money would protect him. There is a difference between these two things.
I was fortunate to have a wonderful mother and father. If Donna had been my mother I honestly think I would have gone away like Robert Adelson.
Wendi is showing guilt by cutting off communication with her parents. An innocent person would show compassion and wouldn’t feel paranoid about being found out.
Or an innocent person would be appalled at the murderous actions of their family and cut ties. I know I would.
Oh yeah, she’s definitely distancing herself from them because she knows she’s involved
I’m glad you referred to the boys as the Markel boys!
It was so wrong for them to change their names. To take their birth right away from them is just awful.
Safe to say Donna Adelson is the worst or one of the worst Mother in Laws around!
Not quite. Check out Pike county Oh murders. 8 people murdered over child custody disagreements. 4 family members indicted.
@@EllEss331yes both of them are the worst mother in laws have to offer.
Senseless murders on behalf of these women…
If Donna and Angela’s life depended on them listening the first time, neither would survive.
Do you think they will be ashamed of the name when they get older?
They can get their real name back when they are 18. I'm sure it's tough on them. Hard to imagine what they hear in their lives each day. It can't be a total vacuum... at least I hope.
May they find love and support.
I know many people who’ve changed their young kids names after a death or a divorce because it’s easier with identifying your children at school or in a medical situation, etc. Don’t be subconsciously manipulated by, Georgia’s narrative & her sneaky way of inserting biased words like “eliminate” in her diatribes.
Her distancing from a family she was sooooo close to screams consciousness of guilt to me.
You wouldn’t distance yourself from murderous relatives?
@@GirlfromFinland
Considering she helped set it up via Dan's schedule, it's ironic at best.
@@mortalclown3812show me the testimony, text, email, recording that proves your assertion.
@@GirlfromFinland @mortalclown3812 Wendi is guilty. Therre is so much which she contributed to this case. However everything she did was conversations between the brother and mother. She didn't reply the emails or send texts messages. There is no way her own family can implicate her. That doesn't mean Wendi is innocent and distancing herself from her family.
There is no extradition from Cambodia yet two fugitives from justice were sent back last year with the assistance of local police and us gov.
To the one that gave me a membership.. Thank you so so much! I really appreciate it 🙏 So sweet ❤❤❤
Take care 😊
The “fun stuff” is when Donna thought the call had disconnected. A for real hot mic moment. 😅😅
Now you see who Charlie gets his smarts from. Donna telling Charlie her plans on a jailhouse call and thinking she would get away from the US.
For anyone who thinks Wendi didn't know about the murder plot .... perhaps you could explain how Wendi was trying to frame Jeff Lacosse (before the murder) .... without knowing about the plan?
💯 agreed!!!
I agree brooksider37...Wendi not only knew but was VERY excited. She could not contain herself she foolishly drove by the crime scene.
Her activities before/day of/ after were super suspicious also.
I don't believe enough evidence to think that
She also moved down, closer to her parents, soon after he was killed, and after people started being arrested, she cut ties with her family..Jeff Lacosse, said she lies about every.. it’s just my opinion, but believe she told her mom and brother, her husband would never allow her to move there, which more than likely set the ball in motion.. could be wrong, but they all seem to be pretty selfish😢
I am so looking forward to the recording of Charlie on the phone with Harvey when Donna gets arrested at the airport 😳😂
Donna & Charlie’s conversations are the gifts that keep coming for Georgia Kappelman ! Georgia must be eager to go trial!
So proud to be a part of the LYK fam! I’m sorry I can’t give to others. It really does make me sad. I’m on SS and have some health problems. But I will ALWAYS be a part of the family, even if I’m not a member. Love you all! 🥰
Do you have your "Receive Gifted Memberships" toggle on?? During a live stream there's a dollar sign on the chat line. If you tap that it'll take you to another box that gives you a membership gift option and you turn that toggle on and it allows you to be gifted a membership to any channel that you are a subscriber of. Leave that toggle on and good chance that you're going to get a gift of a membership! Happy Holidays and good luck!
Thank you. Yes, I do have it on and have been gifted by several and am so very grateful. I’d love to be able to pay it forward is what I mean. Merry merry to you and yours. See you in the next live. 💛LYK family!
@@sherrym921😊know
Mmmkm😊ibibibibibi
Remember the only requirement to being a juror is being registered to vote!!!
I really hope they offer Charlie a deal and he flips on Wendi! That would be the best. Getting my popcorn ready for this.
Wendi was equally and encouraged the hit on Dan. Wendi is a brilliant sociopath & extremely calculating. She got what she wanted then she put lawyers & distance between her key players in carrying out her kill & and iced them out. She’s very smart, manipulative and calculating and knew better than to ever put anything in writing except how she's innocent.
Any type of correspondence when presented, she chose to articulate her innocence, which is a lie!
I followed this case for two years, and when I first started watching it, I thought for sure Wendy was innocent there’s far too many facts that clearly implicate Wendi.
I look forward to reading your novel about this character named "Wendi".
Can you list a few of these facts? I hope she gets arrested soon.....
Why would you have ever thought Wendi was innocent? I never thought that for a nanosecond.
The one son she doesn't speak with figured it out. Smart man.
Why don't we ever hear of him?
@@seansmith6372 he distanced himself from the family years before the murder! He knew they were a bunch of narcissistic whack jobs
When she reads "I was not involved in any way with Danny's death", you can hear her respond with "yes you were"
I have started to think that Wendi was the mastermind manipulated her parents on how awful Dan Markel was, manipulated parents (with unhealthy relationship to son) manipulate Charlie to start the ball rolling in Dans murder. Wendi, free of ex husband, now tosses brother and parents to the ditch as they are of no more use to her. She kept herself "clean" so that she could walk away with everything she wanted.
That’s exactly how I see it!
100% she was I’m not sure why this is even a question it’s so obvious
I think so too. Why would they care that much without her input? Yeah, let me risk my life for no reason over your custody battle? No.
I took Donna saying "I bet you have a lot to think about" as a veiled threat to Wendi that she better play along or else they might talk about her involvement.
It is really Shakespearen. The mother is like Iago in Othello, whispering in Charlie’s ear and wreaking havoc until finally a murder happens.
Beautiful.
Donna being on suicide watch wasn't just due to this phone call. She repeated her suicidal ideation on entering the Tallahassee jail.
and when they brought it up at her arraignment (12/11) she claimed they were LYINGGGGG
I am a firm believer in Karma. The truth will come to the surface in divine timing.
Wendi, “im not guilty, i was not involved in anyway”
Donna, “yes you were”
I thought I heard that too. The part that was inaudible...I heard... "she was" as a comment to whomever she's speaking to. I assume harvey
Wendi DID come the next day & Donna DID tell her they were leaving the country. It was a friend of Charlie’s that ratted them out not Wendi.
Wendi kmows it is a matter of time before they come knocking . Maybe a deal will be made to Donna to turn on daughter . That would turn this into a media circus .
Donna reminds me of my late father's mistress. She was a narcissist abuser who would ask for help with computer stuff and then try to sell me healing crystals for her MLM schemes. She would always try to suck people in with the little helpless mouse ploy and think she was actually fooling people. After my dad passed I completely cut contact with her and she went into a narcissist rage and tried calling the cops on me because I wouldn't give back the things my dad left me. She thought the conditions of me receiving his things was that I would basically become her new abuse victim. Horrible women.
I think Wendi is just as guilty as Charlie and Donna. However, she’s a lawyer and knows exactly what to say to protect herself whether it’s truthful or not. I also believe that she learned to be cruel from Donna. Just like how Donna wanted to do cruel things to hurt Dan, Wendi can be just as cruel by not contacting her family. Just like Donna only wants what is good for Donna, Wendi only wants what’s good for herself.
As bad as the Adelsons are, at least they seem to genuinely care about each other. Wendi doesn’t even have that going for her. She’d alienate them in a heart beat if it meant a slightly better chance of not going to prison.
@@tonyI0 yeah, they care about each other cause they’re all criminals
Wendi knows what to say so well she implied that Charlie could have murdered Dan in her police interview. He was one of the first ppl she gave to investigators.
What if, Wendi is COMPLETELY innocent in all of this? Can you imagine being betrayed by EVERYONE you ever loved? Even, Dan was going after her for everything! He was even going after her law license which is her livelihood. ANYONE who LOVES their children would NEVER go after a former spouse’s ability to financially provide a good home for their children. Not saying, Dan, should have ever been harmed. However, it seems like, Wendi, has been burned by many people in her life & people she doesn’t even know.
@Pammerrigan wow such a bad take. You need to go back and watch her interrogations and also her courtroom appearances. Your opinion will drastically change!!
Donna the gift that keeps giving.
I am extatic with the success of your channel. I am not surprised. I have been here from your beginning. I subbed to "Surviving the Surviror". Awesome Channel. The way you handled yourself and was so humbled to a Superior peer? Was humbling. You made your mark. You are a gem as an attorney. You will hit 1 million. ❤
Peter, there were several times when the actual call was terminated, but Donna didn't actually realise and hadn't ended her end of the call while simultaneously engaging in highly incriminating conversation with those present, much of which was a direct result of law enforcement being drawn into action.
And although Dan Rashbaum was previously a prosecutor, and a very successful one at that, however, this should never be assumed that it would automatically make a former prosecutor a similarly successful defense lawyer, added to that the fact that DR has never actually been a defense lawyer, much less in the very high stakes of a murder trial, and the Adelesons most certainly exercised poor judgement when it came to the most important aspect when accused of murder, that of your defense counsel who quite literally has the capability to either send, or keep you out of prison for the rest of your life, why anyone would cut corners for the sake of the comfort that existing friendships and familiarity may initially provide, you'll most certainly pay the price in the long run as nothing else can compensate for that of intimate and learned knowledge of effectively navigating a murder trial, which should not be a beginners course for your defense counsel.
Oh that’s interesting. Didn’t know any of this.
I learned a lot from this comment. I thought lawyers function as both prosecution and defense.
Didn't he represent the school cop who was charged with not protecting the students during the mass shooting(also in Florida). The cop was aquitted. I can't remember if it was Dan as his lawyer.
@@amandalouise3597different lawyer
Charlie’s defense lawyer was excellent wdym
Thanks for all the gifted memberships
To your point Peter, Wendy is smart, but not smart enough. As a juror having heard how close she and her mom were supposed to be, she writes this as a LETTER to her mom to try and show she was not involved. Nope not buying it. Lots to hear still of course, but her driving by the house ok that might be habit, but after seeing the police presence, not freaking out calling Dan to find out if her kids were ok? To me she didn’t have to call since she knew about the hit. Boom drop the Mike. Merry Christmas!
It's unbelievable that she doesn't feel overwhelming guilt, if not for Dan Markel's murder, at least for the fact that her son is suffering because of what she harped on for him to do.
Thanks Netwoman for keeping us all as members. Your generosity astounds every episode
I wish I knew Netwoman.
My birthday is October 16, maybe next year I’ll get a membership.
Netwoman. Please don’t gamble your money away by giving it to Peter on a constant basis. I am concerned for you.
@@Creative-ChaosI’ve thought the same. It’s very generous so I didn’t want to be the unpopular opinion, but it’s also strange, it seems a bit excessive sometimes. But whatever, to each their own
Peter, you missed a VERY important part of this call at 41:06 where Donna mutters "Yes you were" in response to Wendy denying all involvement.
Edit: you can hear Donna read Wendy's denial and then say" Yes you were" (meaning yes, you [Wendy] were involved) without the pausing at 41:47
Yes! She said “yes she was.”
Ooohhhh interesting!!!
42:20. If you listen further - Donna continues to read the text message and she makes a 2nd “comment” or “aside”. When she does, she says, “Again, I didn’t say that”. The use of the word l “again” signals that whatever she is saying here is in agreement with what she said in her 1st aside.
No if you listen carefully she said “I never said you were”. And later repeats something similar.
Nope wrong -- there is a channel that does voice recording analysis and a channle that is not bias either way. I came upon it yet don’t recall the name. She does NOT say that. YET groupthink-ears ARE convinced she did.
They act like they are at a high-end hotel. They’d like service now! A new room for please! What’s the delay? Where is the Chief?
Was eager to hear your thoughts on these. I attended a panel last night where Mrs Ruth, Dan’s mom spoke & the calls were brought up. She was so GRACIOUS in her response 🙏
where was this? Would love to hear more about it.
It was in Fort Lauderdale last night. STS NATION will be replaying the panel next week Wednesday night. A lot was unveiled.
You know what?? A narcissist, WILL NEVER...COMMIT SUICIDE! LOVE YOUR CHANNEL! From Illinois ❤
Seems like Dan Rashbaum knew and gave Donna advice on fleeing the country! Wouldn't that be an ethical violation on his part?
Rewatch crew here, Net Woman, you are "our" Santa Claus!
There was virtually no chance in hell Donna Adelson's hour long Hot Mic phone call/confession would be recorded. Or how quickly these after verdict calls were made public. But it happend. One of the most intense, bizarre, and most interesting things I think I've ever heard
The hot mic is indeed bizarre and intetesting because in this case they thought the line was cut off. But all the rest of these calls are garbage. They are using them to put their own narrative out there. It's PR and conditioning future juries. They know they are being recorded and released to the public. Wendi was advised by her attorney to say she is innocent and had nothing to do with it to Donna on the phone. These calls are ridiculous at this point.
It is wild, but makes total sense. They are entitled and not that smart but I couldnt believe how they would talk about fleeing and stuff. Now the world knows how they played themselves.
To me... It's divine intervention from The Good Lord above in support of Dan Markel. Even God wants ALL the Adelson's in jail. #justicefordanmarkel
LOL Donna leaving the phone on and Harvey picking it up 😂 my dear god, 🥴Charlie is probably like MOM what in the F&?! Were you thinking???!!!! I mean really … just kept talking and talking’ those prosecutors were like YES 🙌🏼
So nice all the people contributing to the channel and memberships!
Holy Smoke! I was gifted a membership! Thank you to whomever it was who did that! Many thanks!
Peter’s comment about his dad’s calls he butt dials 🤣🤣🤣🤣 my mother in law does that as well. I can only assume Donna was just going to town talking without hanging up the phone lol 😂
Dan R told Donna that she might get away with leaving the country. According to one of her phone calls with Charlie. Dan R told Donna
"that she might get away with it". (leaving the country). Can someone explain Harvey to me?? He obviously knew from day one what Donna and Charlie were up to.
Donna, tears and whining. She never learned it doesn't manipulate anyone but her family into action. Wendi's lawyer probably told her, if you talk to your family I will not represent you.
🤦♀️
I think this is hilarious. Sounds like Wendi did a "Donna" to the whole family. The fruit does not fall far from the tree. Donna is in actuality, furious with Wendi. So many manipulations on display.
Peter really needs to listen to Carl Steinbeck and mentor lawyer's videos on indicators of Wendi's involvement. I think he'd change his mind.
Mortals only allow 15 minutes per call! It then drops call you have to call back
can these lawyers who were obviously aiding and abbeting their flight to avoid prosecution be brought up on charges?
It’s so heartbreaking that this family was so loving towards each other. Like if you managed to not get shunned or murdered, you were good. It just makes it so sad for the innocent victims like the kids seeing all that fall apart.
What I find strange is that Wendi never mentioned her ex as possibly being involved with Dan’s death but she told their mutual friends that the police said he was a suspect, which was a lie.
Wendi screwed up big time when she drove past the crime scene, and never told her family. And they are mad as hell that she did it. They didn’t know until she was cross examined. How does she explain that reasonably?
Love your perspective and how easy u break down the whole sorry mess
This is not a jail call. Donna never hung up from Charlie and it kept recording. She’s talking to Harvey and a friend in her apartment.
58:02 Peter is so deep in thought, you can see the lawyer wheels turning...❤
This family is so full of corruption...and unfortunately Wendy is the only smart one who has kept her mouth shut. Yeah, she had to testify, but she is downright defiant, and hasn't had the backs of those who took her children in... her own parents! Her cutting ties with them, and stopping all communication is the one and only thing she's done right. Don't get me wrong - she's guilty as sin and we all know it. But the rest of them have flapped their gums for the whole world to hear!
My thoughts exactlh.
She's an attorney so she knows to shut up and not talk about the case with family. I do think it's hilarious that she stated she was innocent and had nothing to do with this murder to Donna on the phone, though. This was clearly advised and planned by her and her attorney. They know calls may be recorded so they said let's go put that on record. Blatantly transparent. She's guilty as sin, but has more real world and legal intelligence than her Mom and brother. They grossly overestimate their own intelligence and are too enamored with themselves. That's why they can't stop gabbing.
Peter missed it (because he had just finished talking) when Wendi said she wasn’t involved in what happened in any way, Donna said, “Yes, you were.”
Thank you Peter for continuing to cover this case and explain the legal process to all of us! 💗 In case you don’t have any more videos before Christmas, I hope that your family and you have a very Merry Christmas! 💞
Most "detached" content around. Just facts without too many emotions. Finally!
The thing about Wendi is that even if she did not participate directly (which I believe she was a participant), her children will always have a bit of distrust towards her. If my father was killed, I would be obsessed with learning everything, specially if basically everyone on my mother's side had been prosecuted/incarcerated. In regards to a relation with her sons, Wendi is doomed, no matter what happens to her.
Georgia and Sarah must have been jumping up and down, dancing in their office when they listened to this call. Unbelievable
What circumstantial evidence do I see that Wendi is guilty:
1. Wendi going so far out of her way to go to the crime scene, see what was going on at least close to the house where her children were staying and not ringing & checking on them. This alone gets me to beyond reasonable doubt
2. In Rivera's interview he said that he saw Wendi Adelson the day before the killing (difficult to prove) & Magbanua confirmed with he & Garcia that "the lady" was checking up on them. I would like to know more about this and hope that the prosecutors have explored it in great detail.
3. That Wendi seemed to set up Jeff LaCasse to take the fall. On the first (aborted) trip the car that was hired was substantively similar to the one Jeff drove. Wendy seemed to not be overly interested in Jeff, then suddenly was interested on the day she questioned him about what time he was leaving for his trip and specifically which route he would take and the murder coincided with the time that Jeff would have been driving close to the scene if he had not decided to change his plans.
4. Jeff offered to buy Wendi a new TV and she refused, insisting that she keep the broken one for "weeks" before her mother organised a repair man. It would have been much more reasonable for Wendi to get a repair man in Tallahassee than her mother in Miami
5. Jeff felt that the way Wendi described how the TV was broken was not consistent with the damage he saw and he thought it looked more like damage that an adult had done deliberately.
6. Wendi bought Bulleit Bourbon. This is a small detail, but an important one in my opinion. I would love to see the invite to the "stock the bar party" that specified her to buy Bulleit Bourbon!
I think that is enough to arrest her, but I suspect the prosecution is going to wait & see what happens with Donna, especially as some of these calls make me think Donna could open her big blabber mouth. She sounds particularly unhappy with Wendi and possibly so is Charlie.
when did Garcia's interview happened? Garcia chose to stay silent on all trials. He never spoke a thing about this case.
@@batangaseaaaOh sorry, I mean't Rivera. Funny thing is that I wrote Rivera first, then changed it to Garcia because I thought I had mixed them up.
Thank you NetWoman for my gifted membership!! 😊
'i guess you have a lot to think about.' Donna to Wendy via texts which she is reading to Harvey and an un known woman on a call she didn't know was being recorded still.
34:02 Peter’s reaction is priceless
From the calls I’ve heard .. i think If given the option Charlie would flip.: he talked about how Katy testified and how they could end up giving her 20 years and how many years she’s already done and what she’d have left, and also how much he talks about Wendi’s book and her being at the scene of the crime.
I almost just spit out my water when Peter was talking about his dad and why he has keys in his pocket🤣🤣🤣
Merry Christmas to you and your family, Peter! ❤️💚
Thanks Netwoman! I don’t know why you’re so so generous but I appreciate it!
Lol Peter killed me with: “hey, we babysat your kids. Now help us cover up a crime”😂😂😂😂
Slow down at 41:50- Donna says “yes she was” in response to Wendi saying she was not involved in Dan’s death.
Jeff really got spared a drawn out ordeal by leaving a day earlier.
Roman is Charlie's son's name. She's moving assets around and setting up trusts for Charlie's kid and Wendi's kids. She's upset with Wendi because Wendi won't talk to her, and Donna wants her to know where everything is.
Rewatch here. Amazing to me what people think they can get away with and how entitled. One of the most outrageous things is when they changed the kids last name co
Who would have thought that a woman who started a conspiracy plot against her son-in-law would be so unhinged & delusional? 😂
I cannot believe she didn’t know she was still on the line and being recorded . What a nightmare she continues to create for herself and family.
Personally, I think they treated Wendi like a little princess. I think she knew what they were up to but they kept her out of SOME details. They knew it was something that would help her and they knew she couldn’t care less if he was killed.
I think Donna leaked some details to Wendi without telling Charlie . I suspect this was when Donna was getting Dan markels schedule
Peter. your coverage of this case is outstanding. Thanks for all you do ❤❤❤
Thanks for all of your hard work! Merry Christmas to you and your family, Peter and all the mods!! And of course all who are on the channel.
It’s amazing how she says some of the most incriminating crap when the recorded phone line is open.
Wendy needs to be prosecuted. There is no way she didn’t know about the plot to kill her husband.
Peter your channel and STS is the most educational, informative channels I watch daily. Appreciate your expertise and keep doing this! It truly educates every single day!
Family got a taste for how self serving, selfish and entitled Wendi is. Donna raised her.
Why didn’t they arrest her at the same time as Charlie? And was there a reason to wait until his trial was over?
Did Donna just never hang up the phone? All this being recorded is crazy and they are so sloppy!
Absolute favorite LYK yet! Merry Christmas to all ar Tragos law and the CYK family which im superb ly thrilled to b a part of BTW! Be well everyone, also, drive safe over the holidays
They do sound like a very toxic family. I also think Wendi knew about the hit.
Why would she be distancing, protecting herself if she’s not a part of it?
I think the prosecution has a lot on Wendi but Wendi has learned from her mistakes and is trying to undo her mistakes. She knows her family is loose lipped on phone and his making the right decision.
The problem is Donna won't see her grandchildren anymore UNLESS she makes a deal fat deal with Georgia. If she got a probation deal to flip on Wendi shed do it.
Ahhh i love seeing Donna losing her mind.. Sweet wheels of justice are turning fast now on the crazy family
May she sit inside a cell the rest of her life !She earned every second of jail time!
Does she think that if she whispers they can't record them?
Donna; "I want.. I want... I want..." narcissist sociopath.
The narcissist always barking out orders...eventually they die alone...