Civil War - Lazy Storytelling
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
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Marvel's Civil War is arguably one of the most overrated comics of all time. Not only is it recognizably bad, full of forced story beats and shallow characters, it set Marvel down a path of lazy, event dependence that still hasn't been shaken today.
If you're tired of watching superheroes fight other heroes for no reason, then watch this video and think a bit before you buy the next "All-New All Different" Marvel event.
Tracks:
Gasoline- Diesel Ride
Devin the Dude- What a Job
Dave Pike- Sunny
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All characters owned by Marvel/Disney
"And honestly, it's pretty overrated"
Preach my dude.
Michael Joesph I saw this comment as soon as I heard it on screen!
Overall I enjoyed the comic. The ending was horribly anti climactic. Cap just walked away from all the people who believed in him. The movie was much better and I think Mark was salty about that hence why he criticised it.
I enjoyed the it, up until the ending that was pretty stupid.
Lol the movie is worse
@@tizianoferrigno588 No it is not. You might not like it, but it is in no way worse than the comic, which is a gigantic mess. They turned Iron Man to a mad villain, and Cap into a guy who walks away from his comrades, instead of going for a more nuanced resolution.
@@captainmarvelwilson508 nope the movie was horrible the comic is way better.
@@anthk.4846 I completely disagree. The comic book is a giant mess of good ideas being made way too over the top.
this comic had a great premise, and even some of the tie ins were great. but here's the problem: some of the stuff they said in the tie in: if they had told those stories in the main issue, it would have been awesome.
the movie civil war,while being not as large as the comics were, atleast tries to justify each side. here's a quote from joe russo, one of the directors:"We talked about lots of potential characters dying at the end of the movie. And we thought that it would undercut what is really the rich tension of the movie, which is this is Kramer vs Kramer. It’s about a divorce. If somebody dies, it would create empathy, which would change and allow for repair, and we didn’t want to do that."
Couldn't agree more. Morrison makes a complaint about Ozymandias's actions in Watchmen by saying "The smartest man spent years of his life deciding to make the stupidest decision." It's kind of how I feel about almost every single action every single person in Civil War makes.
Stupidest decision? Uniting humanity through fear of extraterrestrials?
whenfallsthecoliseum.com/2012/04/17/alan-moore-is-right-about-before-watchmen-alas/
Yes, but I wouldn't think it ruined the point of the comic like the article says it. I'm going through what happens in the movie since I hadn't had a chance to read the comics, but it seems to me that Dr.Manhattan is fairly distant from humanity and Ozimandia's goal may not actually be world peace. In that context, the Dr.'s decision would make perfect sense.
Also, I wouldn't say ending the story ended is cowardice, because every story has to end at some point, and that was what Allan thought was the most conclusive way to end it. Wether or not you believe Ozimandias actions make sense, what happens next would take years and would probably be next to impossible to make a compelling story.
The comic is very different than the movie.
Brendan Davis Probably, but the fact Doctor Manhattan is very distant from people and that the only thing we have of Ozimandia's true plans is his words doesn't change, does it?
Would of been good if this event happened in the Ultimate Universe, cause Captain America acted exactly like Ultimate Cap,
Ultimate universe whole purpose was to make our heroes more realistic, and grounded, and because it would of been a great prelude to Ultimatum, Imo. Just get rid of Ultimate 3, and make this the Prelude of ultimatum.
Zorastorm 32 get rid of Ultimatum too that was also crap
Actually, civil war was originaly a story for the ultimate universe, but the editorials liked it so much that it became a mainline earth story.
@@mrfazbear1849 if you say thats true i buy It
Because sounds so Ultimate the Story of Spiderman being públic
@@Morfe02 well it was on tv tropes
I reread Civil War and did not feel immersed, moved, or interested to finish. You nailed the point.
The film is far better, because it ignores Millar's edgy BS. Russos focus on the characters and their individual journeys.
not really antman and spiderman are just there they really don't have a reason but being a huge fanboy
Stefan Kovacevic Don't judge a video by what others think about it, judge the video as a video and actually watch it. Also dislikes for this video make up less than 1/5 of the bar, your standards for, "so many" are pretty damn low.
And telling someone to kill themselves for not having the same opinion as yours. I'm sure that'll change their opinion.
The most flabbergasting thing to me about this entire series is how seemingly no one questions the divide between 1) Registration and 2) Becoming your government's paid puppet. A compromise could have easily been reached, in enforcing superhero registration through a database enforced by a super-hero managed organism, alongside instituting government programs to enforce proper training, managed by members of the super hero community, however as it's pointed out to Wonderman, nobody seems to read the small print, or care about pointing out how ridiculously heavyhanded is the government's hand, in literally tricking people who register in becoming their blackmailed slaves.
This is not criticism; just constructive comment. Your delivery is too slow, too low on energy, and the background music only enforces a lack of enthusiasm. It makes the video very difficult to listen to, despite the quality content contained within. Also, your audio levels are very low compared to average audio levels of other videos on youtube.
Perfect feedback!
Jerrel D
Sounds like criticism to me. Don't be afraid to call it criticism. There's a stigma to that word.
yea i have to watch his vids in 2x speed
This is without a doubt constructive criticism in comment form. I'm almost certain he's deliberately speaking this slowly to break the youtube 10 minutes thing. I agree with you though.
Nah I wish I was that smart. I don't do ad breaks in the middle anyways, so it's not much of a difference.
This was like my third or fourth video, a.k.a. still learning, and to be honest I'm still working on my delivery. Thanks for watching though! Got something new coming tomorrow 🙌
This crap era started with Bendis's Disassembled, and Marvel's been wallowing in fetid shit ever since. I love all of Marvel's characters, but not when they're written by douchebags who don't appreciate history.
Cee Dubya you put it into words
DC rebirth is 10x better than marvel nowadays haha
Bendis' New Avengers was good during the first two arcs
Ya, civil war could have been great. The premise is awesome, but the story sucks. Like you said, everyone acts out of character. Using green goblin and venom to hunt captain America, cloned Thor who is completely insane somehow worthy to use the hammer while real Thor spends years unable to do so (not to mention clone Thor suddenly existing in the first place. Like, we didn't use him to fight skrull or kree invasions but we use him vs captain America).
What about Mr. Fantastic making his prison in the negative zone, not for Dr. Doom, but again for Luke Cage and Captain America. I could go on forever. It sucked. Just totally sucked.
Civil war is a pretty good place for people to start with marvel since it introduces you to loads of the characters and gives you an alright understanding on how the marvel universe views their superheros. Looking back at it yeah its pretty average at best and everyone is pretty much wrote the same way.
The civil war movie is much better then the book
i like this, but you're too slow and need to be more natural
here you sound like you're reading an essay
Trust me, I'm well aware of my own audio problems. I hate my voice, so hopefully soon I'll feel more comfortable speaking into a microphone alone.
I think it was good, but that's just me.
So It Goes you don't have audio problems. Your are audible and informative. But you sound like a bored girl. Just speak faster that's all. This will make your edit faster too
@SoItGoes I think it has less to do with the literal sound of your voice, and the fact that you don't have the lines memorized. If you knew the line before you had to say it you could completely avoid sounding so slow.
Derrick Thompson I don't think he needs to speak faster. Then he will be more difficult to hear. He needs to be more animated and have inflection in his voice. Everything in the video was very monotone which made it boring.
Seriously the only reason I got into Civil War were; Ultimate Alliance 2, and the Thunderbolts
Civil war was such a mess of a story that really made no sense whatsoever in my opinion.
Yes has no sense in a Big picture (cap dies and revives)
In fact the only idea you can get is how the Skrulls made this
@@Morfe02 yup that’s right
I think we need to recognize,
that hollywood used to be ahead of the curve, showing the public societys cutting edge of what is or what was.
But realize now that they are simply following trends and making movies on idea they know [think] will bank.
+Travis Young a very sad truth. Major comics are following the same path. Image comics I'd trying to stay above the fray
To be completely honest I think this was ALWAYS the case with Hollywood. Most early films are taken from musicals, or adapted from novels. They've never been risky or edgy in my opinion. Individual directors and producers can be creative and interesting, but Hollywood as whole has been mostly safe bets since the 1930's
Kinda feel more so lately...
Especially since the fall of blockbuster and the rise of stream and stolen movies...
They are coming out with more mainstream movies they know will meet a minimum sale number.
Way less likely to risk a creative or original title than some sequel.
When I was young it's wasn't uncommon to go to the theatre and say
" what's that one about??"
And if it seemed interesting we would risk out $7.50 on it.
Now you have insidious 3 paranormal activity 5
Transformers 6
Pirates of the Caribbean 7
Dinosaur world 4
Rare you find a unique title or an independent movie idea picked up by a studio...
Movies like Donnie darko and sixth sense used to take risks Derrick.
I think I'm just saying that if you look back in history (not just your own memory) you will see that they basically did the same thing back in the day. There were dozens of Nightmare on Elm Street sequels back in the 70's, Charlie Chaplin rebooted his own movies a few times, and even Alfred Hitchcock couldn't keep Hollywood from making a sequel to Psycho, and that was over 40 years ago. The companies and producers in Hollywood have always been shit people that wanted to capitalize on movies for profit. It was never about art for them. I think its just more obvious for you now because you've grown up and you can see the bullshit for what it is. Just don't fool yourself that it was somehow better in the past because that type of attitude is what allows movie companies to reboot old shit and still make money.
I agree that Donnie Darko and 6th Sense are great movies, but I could name SEVERAL films that came out the same years that are horrible studio trash, so its not like anything has changed.
Just wondering, weren't the Illuminati and Secret Invasion storyline's technically happening during Civil War? I feel like there was more going on behind the scenes with the Illuminati and Skrulls that fill in some of the plot holes you mention, at least as far as character inconsistencies.. Good vid btw and I didn't notice any problems with your speech bud.
lluminati was kind of always going on in the back ground but I feel like it was always so BnB could just do whatever he wanted before Secret Invasion. And I guess Secret Invasion technically could have been going on, but I doubt major players like Hank Pym and Elektra were already Skrulls during Civil War, they probably just made that up much later.
I didn't get to read all of the Civil War series but Death Of Captain America is one of my favorites. I can't remember if they tell you how long the Skrulls were in place but I think they implied that they were there from the beginning. I know Black Bolt was definitely a Skrull during Illuminati. Thanks for the reply man! Need to get back into this stuff. Definitely would like to check out that new Vision..
Well,the writing in Marvel cinematic universe is quite ingenius. That can't be said in their line of comics,however:
1. Divorcing famous couples in a bad way.
2. Having mutants lose their powers and then let them die via the Inhumans' Terrigin mist.
3. Having heroes versus heroes fight because of ridiculous reasons (too many to mention here).
4. Making convoluted stories just to satisfy the SJW sector. And,
5. Too many deaths of beloved heroes only to find another with similar powers and abilities (ex.,Wolverine = old man Logan, Cyclops = younger Cyclops). And,
5. Retconning many backstories that never needed in the first place.
Seriously, the what-if's way better than the actual comic. An actual compromise was made.
This video was suggested on one of my own video essays.
Glad I clicked this, whereas I disagree on your opinion of event stories. I do agree on your opinion of the
oversaturation of event stories and event movies. You can't make a smaller film nowadays it seems.
Subbed.
I wish I could sub twice since I saw Rich Evans midway through the video. Rich Evans is life.
Keep it up man, I very much enjoyed this. I do also agree with the bulk of the comments as well, your speech could use a bit more oomph, and that's rich coming from me, since my voice sucks.
Nevertheless, cheers!
Thank god im not he only one who hated civil war. Some of the heroes were out of character. Everyone either gave too much of a shit or no shit at all. I hated this story. It fucked up marvel.
The ending of the storyline was especially odd because the policemen literally interfere to arrest Captain America when he and Iron Man were still in the heat of fighting each other.
A couple of points,
The hero vs hero thing really kicked off in the '90s with the popularity of the small (what was it, like 4 pages?) Batman vs. Superman fight in Miller's DKR, and the whole Marvel Vs DC even (the one that created the Amalgum universe). True, these were done better (Clark and Bruce did debate their issues, and MvsDC was created by God-like beings who forced no other option), but that is what created the initial massive pushes. Hell, it goes back much further to the 1960s, where the first Avengers comic was basically the Avengers vs the Hulk and most of the team-up books involved the heroes fighting. It was just not as noticeable since the fights were short, typically the heroes were being set up by a villain, and the heroes would team up at the end.
I also think that Civil War II only shipped well, and not really sold well. Marvel really over-ships their books so it looks like they sell well, which is a problem for Local Comic-book Shops (LCSs) since they have to pay income tax based on stock as well (making stock taxed like income, even though it's flux), and this is one thing really pushing many LCSs out of business. Even if they were sales, it'd be sales to the LCSs (and bookstores), not to the costumers (which is what "sold well" implies). So it wouldn't be fair to say the first issue of Civil War II sold well.
All in all, a really good video and fair review of the Civil War event and its more lasting effects.
Retcon - Captain America was under the influence of Hydra since the start...
I feel your words about Civil War goes out to almost all of Marvel as you have proved with the other comics mentioned later. I'm no Comic reader or a Marvel fan but I have had trouble feeling any immersion or connection to any of the characters or stories simply because it's all violence without reason, consequences and drama that does not really impact the story, never bringing any closure or conclusion. Marvel's Comic writers and movie directors are doomed to repeat this formula as they lose sight of what it means to really tell a story. All that makes stories or movies worth re-visiting is lost to Marvel and to many other studios. They do not feel the need to find it not when action, comedy, meaningless drama and worthless continuations is what drowns them in money. To them taking risks or doing anything truely different is not worth parting from a single coin.
+Funinightmare keep an eye out for my next video, featuring a marvel comic from the last few years that is one of the best comics I've ever read. Finally a break from endless destruction to look at some flawed characters!
None of the Earth-616 comics have counted since One More Day in late 2007.
Kingdom Come did it much better.
YES!
If only DC can put to film what they have on comics
“Mark Millar makes it impossible to support either side” - the whole point of the book. The necessity or expression of a moral grey area when the law is antiquated in a continuously evolving populace.
Except it's supposed to be about their good and bad points, not just the bad.
What does that mean?
Then why did Mark Millar think the pro registration side is the right one, which indicates that's the one readers should align with even though they do alot of stupid and inhumane things compared to the anti registration side my guy
Mark Millar is a shit writer lol. And comic civil war just like old man logan is full of ooc assasinations and shock value nonsense warping both the public's and comic fans' perceptions of these characters
You had a lot of valid points. I have been a fan of comic book and superhero for a long time, I feel it is boring when the try to do too much character build up. It also show how stupid some characters can be, that just make me want to through away the comic. I like a good story, relationship, superpower and Fighting. Netflix made that mistake with Ironfist, too much character build up. Ironman was good because they did not do a lot of character build up, just what was relevant, then later on in the other MCU films we got more.
I feel like a lot of comic conflicts this big are fights because they are based on morals and ideals. It's so much harder to convince someone else that what they believe in is wrong and they need to follow an opposing idea. I think the Civil War movie displays it pretty well.
honestly this video is really good with viral potential, but i feel you took quite a few too many pauses. keep the pacing quick!
any pauses in particular you found too jarring?
Thanks for the kind words though, Caleb!
in the beginning i found a the long pauses a little distracting, but you got better throughout the video. and you're welcome! keep up the great work!
Unfortunately, as these last two elections have proven, civil war may have actually been spot on on how people would actually act.
U nailed it.
'That one small movie a few months ago'
Yeah, ok.
Please, please do something like this for Injustice, it deserves a beating so much
Themexicansnob I'm a DC fan, and Injustice fan, but I agree the story is only good year 1 and year 5 with the game Injustice 2 having a good story with a terrible, sequel baiting ending.
The story just drags from the beginning of year 2 till the end and this problem is very easy to see in the Injustice 2 comics.
The Sunshine Gamer so true it can be so good but it's dragged out way to fucking long
AL EX Yeah, it’s a good story that should have only had 2 years of issues, the 5th and 1st year are really the only notable parts of the story. The previous 3 years should have been summed up in issue 1 of year 5.
It went on waaaay too long
Themexicansnob It really just dragged on too long, that's it.
this story ruined tony stark's characterization, they even admitted that tony's character wasn't in the right place and did it anyway
they really wanted their own kingdom come, huh?
Fuck yesssss, this shit was ridiculously bad, the fact that annihilation went overlooked by comparison is a crime
Cool video and I mostly agree with everything you said but there are some things I would like to point out.
The first two are that Civil War actually lasted LONGER than 7 months because the issues were delayed and this held up various other titles. The second point is that in defence of the Pre-Registration Side it was established they were able to control super villains with like nanites implanted into their bodies. Which doesn’t make the situation much better and makes them even MORE authoritarian if anything but still in the interests of fairness I feel that should be pointed out.
The thing is I actually think you weren’t harsh ENOUGH on this garbage storyline.
As we know from the MCU and all other adaptations of Marvel’s characters, the stone cold truth is they work BEST when you don’t take them to the absolute levels of realism Civil War tried. When they are vigilante amateurs with good intentions who generally have things work out the Marve universe functions properly and can tell an interesting range of fun, action packed but also emotional and socially poignant stories.
Which is all down to the founding philosophy of the Marvel characters. They were relatable human superheroes who lived in a world recognizable to us. That’s why they all lived in New York instead of Gotham or Metropolis or Central City.
When you take them AS realistically as Civil War tried to do all you wind up doing is generating cheap novelty for the characters in the short term.
Like in all seriousness Spider-Man’s identity being revealed might be interesting but only because it’s never been done before. If you committed to that long term and kept that as a factor in the seires you’d break the character, he would no longer function properly or be what he was created to be. Spider-Man is the everyman superhero who contends with down to earth everyday life events like paying his rent, doing his laundry, working a job, etc. That’s the core appeal of the character. But with a public identity he becomes a celebrity and all that stuff is broken. You might as well just make a new character wholesale...except it could never be as interesting or as poignant because it could never connect with people on the same level precisely BECAUSE it’s no longer as relatable.
In a sense you can apply that to the Marvel universe as a whole.
When you treat superheroes with this level of realism and commit to that and the ramifications of it the Marvel universe ceases to be a world we can recognize and relate to. It becomes authoritarian at worst and at best...really fucking boring.
It is literally MORE interesting seeing these characters have private lives and then go off and do vigilante crime fighting than seeing them be super hero cops basically and worry about the nitty gritty stuff like paperwork, collateral damage etc. It violates the fun escapism and entertainment aspects of the characters. It’s like all the board room politics in the Netflix Iron Fist show. It’s not unrealistic he’d have to deal with that stuff but who the fuck honestly WANTS to see it?
Certainly not kids and teens. The BEST superhero stories appeal to a cross generation of audiences. Civil War though was distinctly trying to address adult social political concerns that even if teens and kids could understand them they would be thoroughly uninterested in.
I know I was when I was 14 reading this piece of shit story and saying to myself even back then “This is the dumbest thing Marvel have ever done”
I know the Civil War movie was good but notice how the politics of that wasn’t MOST of the story and the most of the movie was more about Bucky and Steve’s relationship. Not only that but there was just more fun and joyous moments in the movie to balance things out. If a kid was bored during the conversation scene early in the movie the three major action set pieces more than made up for it. Also it worked better in the MCU because the MCU puts out 2-3 movies per year as part of a cohesive narrative and the universe has only got a handful of superheroes and super villains in it going back about 8 years in total.
In the 616 Marvel universe superheroes and super villains were around in WORLD WAR II. Cap and Red Skull might’ve existed in the MCU but in the 616 universe you also had the Human Torch, Union Jack AND the Sub-Mariner who was a mutant.
THEN for well over 10 years in the Marvel universe you had a plethora of super humans popping up starting with the Fantastic Four. By the time you got to Civil War maybe super humans were over all a minority but there were countless numbers of them even excluding villains and mutants.
And the Marvel Universe didn’t treat them in much of a realistic way UNTIL Civil War. It was the height of cheap storytelling because they suddenly decided “Okay NOW we’re gonna have realism”.
Except if you are going to have that kind of realism you retroactively make the whole universe seem illogical because if the New Warriors and Nitro blowing up one town is what pushes people over the edge and demand registration why the flying fuck hadn’t this happened BEFORE with all the super VILLAINS running around?
Why did the existence of Magneto, Carnage, Doctor Doom, the Mandarin and so many others apparently not give people sufficient cause to bring the super human population in line but this ONE random incident which isn’t half as bad as other shit that’s gone down before suddenly does?
Because of contrivance that’s why. The same kind of contrivance that led them in 2010 to sweep all this stuff under the rug and have the President throw out the registration act (which is illegal btw the President can’t do that) and then everything went back to normal.
Which is horseshit. If Civil War happened no way would the Marvel universe ever function the same way again unless you wilfully ignored it which is BAD writing.
They broke their universe for short term gains and then clumsily glued it back together again forcing us to ignore the cracks.
And going back to normal was one great big admission that the kind of universe and status quo that would be created as an end result of Civil War was never sustainable in the first place rendering it fucking POINTLESS.
And you know what the WORST part was?
Even as a piece of social political commentary it was never a valid idea in the first place.
The whole story wants you to think it’s one great big security vs liberty debate but the reality is it isn’t.
It’s just a story that says “The way the Bush administration reacted to 9/11 was a BAD thing”
This was 2006-2007. By that point EVERYONE had already talked about that to death. South Park had parodied it. There was NOTHING of value to be gained from exploring it with the Marvel characters. It added nothing new and just reinforced the message everyone on all sides of the discussion had heard a million times before.
Nobody needed Civil War.
And you know what else...the fight scenes weren’t even that good. There I said it. They lacked good pacing and choreography. There was no life or flow to them, no illusion of movement.
227060 I enjoyed the comic book but I agree the movie was much better. I understand your criticisms and enjoyed reading your comment thanks for sharing.
At least the official version is that Marvel editor in Chief said "lets make our heroes fight each other again," and while they have done the mind control and alien forcing they so many times they came with the registration law and everything it needed to work in the story.
Obviously the weren't thinking on the long run, because like you said, things like Spider-Man unmasking and fugitive Avengers couldn't work as the new status quo, and when they come back to normal, all this would look dumb, but apparently you can only think of this year sales.
I do like the story, but yes, Captain America didn't have a long term plan, and the pro-reg side simply became villains.
This law didn't have place in a superhero story, unless is a short term plot. The superhero is basically a libertarian fantasy, the exceptional individual fighting on his free will for the benefit of society, but in real life we want acountabillity, something that is against the superhero concept.
In real life, superhuman individuals would be part of law enforcement, armed forces, entertainers or simple citizens, but certainly not vigilantes in colorful costumes and presenting that in fiction would be boring.
okay, but Secret Invasion is actually a pretty cool concept
Avengers emh cartoon did that much better tho and improved the storyline from that hack Bendis lol
Heh then injustice is a form of kingdom come with the same characters reacting the same way
How about when Goliath is killed? Everyone is is all, "I think we went to far." Uh you're seriously going to say that? I miss Chris Claremont.
Every criticism you have of this comic book is facts the movie adaptation of this comic is better( however that has some flaws) I believe UA-camr Nando V movies totally nailed the concept down better when he rewrote Captain America Civil War I highly recommend it if you're interested.
you know what does great for sales? making a legitimately good story and marketing it well. What are the fucking odds?
I bought one volume and didn't like it. You're right - every acts so irrationally and it just took me out of the story
I agree with most of what this guy said, but he ignored one thing Cap wasn't trying to lead a revolution he wanted the heroes to continue to operate outside the government to change public opinion about the SRA, but shield and Stark kept picking fights with him.
I think the actual Civil War mini-series on its own is okay at best, not what I'd call deserving of its sales figures, but my main problem with it was the large amount of tie-ins. There were hardly any Earth-based Marvel comics that didn't have to do with Civil War at that time. I get that it was to show just how large this battle was, but it's fatiguing and makes getting the whole story 10 years later more tiresome. The only saving grace for Marvel at that time was Annihilation, which might be the best Marvel event of all time.
"Civil war 2" wasn't really good...I was told to skip it. And "Shadowland"? That barely made a splash, I don't recall anyone talking about it. "Inhumans vs X-men" No one cared about. I enjoyed the hell out of "Avengers Vs. X-Men".
Disagreeing on cap.....if that's what you gathered from Caps stance..you dont understand his "stand by my beliefs" stance no matter what
Watching this again in the middle of 2018, I wish I could go back in time to October 2016 and let this guy know that his hopes of a "bright future" for Marvel would be dashed away rather quickly by SJWs. Poor guy. Clearly he loves Marvel, only for his fandom to be destroyed by far left ideologues.
Thank Christ! I said this when I first read it three years ago. It’s so painstakingly meh. I really hate this damn book. And no one else seems to get it.
Spoilers but Civil War 2 is worse much worse but least we got Immortal Hulk out of the deal
I really enjoyed the breakdown of events here. I forgot how many focused on hero vs. hero since Civil War. One suggestion: Your speech here sounded a bit stilted at times. It feels like it could have a more natural flow.
+Dane Lamont thanks for your support and the criticism. I'm still self conscious about my voice so it's a slow improvement; hopefully it doesn't drive anyone away until I get it just right.
Pretty much a shitty copy of Kingdom Come
Jhon omg finally someone said it I thought I was the only one 😂
Kingdom Come is a rip off of the graphiv novel "Marvels".
How is Kingdom Come a ripoff of Marvels? I mean they are both master pieces and both drawn by Alex Rose.
TheMadnessOfMadara That's Alex Ross. Whose great art on the successful "Marvels" lead to DC hiring him for "Kingdom Come".
Kingdom Come was Alex's idea and he went to DC with it.
The only modern marvel event I have enjoyed in recent years is Fear Itself and that was because it actually moved Thor's plot forward and had everyone working together instead of fighting each other.
Honestly if you listen at 1.25 speed it sounds pretty normal
I agree with you, I quit reading new comics after Spider-Man Back in Black!
Civil War was hot garbage and the movie wasn't much better.
That is why the new captain America civil war is better than the comic. They fight once besides at the end. But in the airport battle they are not trying to kill each other. At the end it is not a fight get the super hero registration act.
The movie is not better. It's more contradictory than the original story, actually. The buildup of the movie insinuates that the heroes will be fighting each other because of their personal ideals, but, in the end, the heroes (if you can consider Bucky a hero) fight because of their personal gripes. Which is not only less interesting, but also very contradictory, because it doesn't line up with the previous point established by the movie.
Sexy Hobo It actually makes it more compelling and shows these heroes are humans with faults. The airport battle was the accords registration battle\Fun battle, while the cap vs iron man fights is the personal battle with cap fighting for his friend the only thing that reminds him from the time he was from while Tony is not only pissed about his mother's death but also taking out his frustration with cap being the thing "His dad never shuts up about".
I thought everyone said "meh" to Civil War rather than praising it.
I 100% agree! So glad you covered this, i personally don't enjoy most of Marvel comics recently.
Haha. When you said the thing about Daredevil Shadowland, I said "What?" exactly the way you did just a moment before. That was great.
Agree to disagree I guess. People in the real world absolutely have a tendency to overreact, skip the option of talking and jump straight to violence. Wars are fought over differences of ideology, not a lack of land.
The story conveys that same concept very well in my opinion.
I will agree however on your point that Marvel has become too reliant on big crossover events and the thousand of tie-ins that disrupt everything else the happens in their universe.
I thought it had a good idea, but I struggled with the main book and most of the tie ins except for Amazing Spider-Man & Peter Parker: Spider-Man. I agree with your starting comment about it setting Marvel on a course where they're dependent on events.
You deserve more than 1k subs bro
lol. thanks man, it'll either come or it won't.
No it's not it's ok what's wrong with that. One dimension characters yet u read it
Avengers vs x-men was weird and its a shame because I liked the idea of the mutants in utopia but fuck it, the island went to hell and everything changed.
To be honest Steve mccnivons art is the stuff of legends. It so realistically fuckin crazy that it made me pull through this story. I really think it was an enjoyable story but the writing for these characters was just done so horribly, wasted potential would be a perfect way to describe this event
This is one of the only recent Marvel events that was actually decent. Eh, I'm still angry at Marvel with how they've fucked Spidey so much.
I'm a big Spidey fan but I do miss the pre-One More Day stuff. I like a lot of Slott's run, but I'm incredibly happy to see some fresh blood come onboard. Ryan Ottley was made to draw Spider-Man comics so I'm happy he's getting his chance
Yes the story was not well crafted but the artwork deserves a place amongst Marvel's finest.
To be totally honest, I was only with you about halfway through the video. At first, I felt as if you might be reading too much into things, but that's almost the nature of analysis.
My real issue was the second half of your video, where it felt less like you were making a thought out argument and felt more like you were trying to make your point by just using a sneering tone and a few sound effects
+Quoth Theraven, for some reason I'm only now seeing this comment, but thanks a lot for your input. I know what you mean. I'm still trying to find the balance between humor and analysis
I actually plan to get the big civil war box set but now I heard that the ending was not good. Should I still buy it? I'm pretty interested in Civil War though.
Is the narrator sleeping while reading this?
WAKE UP! IT'S FEEDIN TIME!
This is why Injustice works far better then Civil War. The incident and conflict make much more sense then Civil War and the reasons why the two are fighting make more sense. Superman wanting to stop criminals permanently and prevent crime from happening by all costs, and Batman not wanting this to go overboard with people who commit minor crimes not be killed or punished in a extreme measure as well as not have everyone's free will be taken away from then. He also doesn't want to kill anyone as Batman, knowing that this can go to far and people like those in the justice league shouldn't be a death squad.True this issue can be resolved with just talking as you pointed it out in the video, but Superman was so effected by what the Joker caused him to do that he was beyond listening to reason.
2:39 Yeah, because violence for political reasons never existed in the real world. Forgive me, but that point is stupid.
For a story that doesn’t suck, the comments are all suggesting Kingdom Come
LoL i like thouse events Hulk kicking the shit of Iluminati and Skrull as a concept is cool even if has no sense
Obviously Marvel ruin the ideas
Hulk gets a second arc World war of Hulks that SUCKS
And the Skrulls are bad use because they reveal all the time, the tv series did 20 TIMES BETTER
I know I’m late on commenting on this, but I did like what came out of civil war. I enjoyed secret invasion a lot and I really liked the dark reign era of marvel.
No such thing as too late, thanks for watching! I actually do have some nostalgic feelings for the Dark Reign era just cuz I'm a big Norman Osborne fan actually and Secret Invasion is like the perfect comic book B-Movie
If you guys want a good special event, go read secret empire or dc metal or even crisis on infinite earths.
Criticizing the book for having characters that make wrong decisions or have flawed reactions is so fucking retarded. Characters act irrationally, characters overreact, that's part of storytelling. It's like saying "Hamlet" is a bad story because Prince Hamlet doesn't just kill Claudius in Act I, it's mixing character flaws for story flaws.
Also, yes both sides have flaws and can be criticized, that's because neither side is the hero. Millar created the event to have nuance, compare to Civil War II, where there is an obvious divide (to anyone who is not a fascist) and notice how less appealing a book is because they don't have a nuance to the argument.
The characters do talk, and if the video-maker read anything but the main trade of Civil War, he'd see it, if you only read the main book, it's supposed to focus on the action.
The video makes a critical point about how Captain America is a WWII clone fighting for an imaginary concept of liberty and political freedom, and that Tony Stark is a madcap futurist that can't see beyond his ideas for the implication. The author criticizes this, but this is exactly what Millar is going for. Both sides are flawed notions of the past and the future, and they are fighting over the #1 ethical conflict of the post 9-11 America, liberty and autonomy in the face of terror. This is what makes the book interesting, and frankly I don't believe it completely works. In the end I felt that Tony Stark was a complete techno-fascist, and that Captain America was a cowardly asshole. But I do not believe it is fair to criticize the application of nuance.
Also, Civil War didn't start events or even the modern trend of events in comics, that started with Disassembled and House of M.
Captain America did not actually die.
For a good story that never gets old, look no further than underdog stories.
Civil war answers the question "what if we did kingdom come, but terrible?"
Cap realized how much of a mistake he was making in not following the logcial thing and going to supreme court until the end when he just saw that he was so caught up in his cause he forgot about what comes first.
11:40 why is Pikachu there he isn't a Marvel superhero?
Love this video so much. 😊
I know nobody will see this but sounds like a Japanese manga
What sounds like a Japanese manga?
thank you
good review, until you said "success of suicide squad."
Millar is one of the worst writers that keeps getting work. He's good at making sensationalist bombastic work that turns heads, but it's so edgy for nothing but itself.
I feel like Civil War isn't the worse. It's just lead to so much cancer. Thanks for One More Day Marvel. Also, now with all the one-note characters that are just a skin colour.
It’s average the tie ins r better. And a lot of this doesn’t make sense, this is the most overrated comic ever. The ppl who say the comic is better than the film here clearly haven’t read the comic cuz the film is genuinely a massive improvement and is so different from the comic for a reason.
I think you missed out on the point that each of these events were supposed to be epic changes to the status quo, but with a new allegedly landscape altering event happening each year and each event taking six months or so to play out, you basically only have a few months to be explore any new status quo before the lead in to the next event.
These events have to be examined as solo stories too though, and this one just didn't do it for me
And Cap became the leader of hydra
This is sad that the movie came out and the money said other wise poor dc fans
The movie was even worse. And I liked the graphic novel, but the movie was just plain disappointing. There actually was no Civil War
I see what you're coming from but:
1.the clone and villains were controlled
2.people in real life have a tendency to overreact
3.captain walked away because him realizing the destruction and mistakes he made
But I do agree that marvel is throwing events at us just for fan service after ANAD
For me was weird the way Tony and Reed acted the way they did, specially Reed. In Simonson run of the FF the idea of a registration of Superheroes, Reed was againts it. In a world with Osborne pulling of strings trying to have a political carreer, having his own Avengers team and trying to buy the Baxter building, that SHIELD has it's limits and the Kree and Skruls walking around. That the autonomy of most of the heroes causes more good that harm is weird that Reed would suport the pro side. When he Is one of the most proactive heroes in the Marvel Universe.
I think Marvel has had a hard time cracking Mr. Fantastic for the last few years. Instead of a truly loving father who just happens to be obsessed with science, he's closer to an aloof, cold, calculating god and that just doesn't sit well for me.
@@RickNazden he was a Man of action. A whole package: Smart, Strong, handsome, curious, a funny dork, a good friend, a patriarch un the good Sense, a war veteran, maybe not the most powerful of the team but damn, that man knew how to play His cards.
But imagine what would have if neither Tony or Reed didn't support the SHRA and someone like Norman Osborn
It did suffer from a lot of problems, but it's a masterpiece compared to CW2. I hate Civil War 2, it makes every character an idiot IMO.
Fucking THANK YOU!
Dude I was FOURTEEN years old when this series was happening and back THEN I was calling it out as fucking bullshit nonsense.
The reason it's a fan fav and so successful is wholly superficial.
Seeing THAT many characters together fighting each other automatically generates hype and sales and certain fan service which gives off the illusion of success stemming from quality.
That and the fact that Marvel had never done anything as large scale as that before and hadn't done a crossover THAT big that shook the whole universe since...well arguably ever but definitely in damn near 10 years back then. So OBVIOUSLY it was going to sell.
What a lot of fans don't recognize though is that it's resolution in Siege in 2010 was lazy ass sweep it under the rug bullshit.
Because it pretty much HAD to be. Because there was no way to BELIEVABLY go back to how things were before, the way they worked BEST and were most sustainable.
Civil War is a story where you pulled the trigger and had to commit forever which Marvel didn't do an never wanted to do. It was shallow, immature, short sighted horseshit that wound up damaging the universe and characters in ways they've yet to fully recover from. Iron Man is treated as forgiven for his sins in this story but he did fuck all to earn that, he just FORGOT he was basically a war criminal FFS.
The movie is awesome. This is putrid shite
Iron Man was written ooc in that shit storyline anyways by a shit writer Mark Millar so fuck you lol
Civil War ruined Marvel for me. I didn't really realize it
at the time. I lied to myself. They couldn't pull this thing off. Look how it
ruined Spider-man. Why don't we get stories where everyone knows who he is? Why
can't Aunt May stay dead? First off, all the characters have different
personalities. It was a mess of a story. They probably rewrote it as it went
along. It was delayed for months despite having most of their books being tied
into it. It changed the vibe of the Marvel Universe, yet they had trouble
rectifying the motivations and characterizations of the same characters in
different books.
Hey, did you know Spider-man was magic?Yes. He had just died
and came back to life in a cocoon. He was killed by this guy in a trench coat.
Because he's one of the magic Spider-people. That was his origin all along.
Then he got a job working for Stark and new costume to go with his new powers.
This is one of he biggest messes of this series and it was just before it
started. You change everythign at once, then you delay the books.
I was absolutely certain Captain America was going to die.
There was something about this and the New Avengers series that spelled it out
for me. This was a mess and badly written. The bad part is, they couldn't and
wouldn't go back on it.
The follow up to it was something called the Initiative,
which wasn't even a real story. The idea was that there were going to be 50
goverment-run super teams. One for each state. However, all they did was put
'The Initiative' on the cover of books and had none of this in it.