I sat in one at the International Auto Show and was pretty impressed. Actually, all the Chevy/GMC trucks I sat in ( Sierra, Silverado HD, Silverado 1500 light duty, traverse) we're pretty impressive. They just felt relaxed and comfortable, with a positive feel behind the wheel and well-thought out ergonomics. The Chevy cars, nice, but I felt maybe trying a little too hard to be "snazzy." I would take it over the plain Jane interiors of some import family sedans, though. I love that the styling on the new Traverse is more truck-like and rugged. I was just starting to get more used to the first-gen Traverse styling but this is way better!
Wow a lot of haters here. We just bought this to eventually replace our Tahoe. We would have gotten another Tahoe but, can't get over the price of them. The traverse is 95% perfect for us, only problem I have a 5000 lb. boat. That is the tow capacity of the traverse. We'll have to see in the summer. Very happy with it the last 2 months we have owed it.
Same engine used the Cadillac ATS, CTS, and CT6. Also used in the Impala and other GM cars. This engine is new for Traverse, but well used by GM for a few years now. Should be fairly reliable by now.
That's because it is. I see you have attention to details as I have. I work on my 2018 Traverse myself and it is a breath of fresh air. No fuss, no headaches.
The CX-9 is just an okay suv. The bodystyle is too funky and very misplace components that just never made any sense to me. It may have better material here and there, but the rest is just mediocre and not in the right place. This 2nd gen traverse just look more like a very mature suv. This is the proper midsize suv at its finest. The other competitors just seems like a hit and miss suv that just didn't really reach maturity level. Not sure why some people just love compact vehicle for a suv. They were better off just sticking to a sedan if they want a compact vehicle. The whole point of going to a suv is for the cargo space. Not too big not too small but just perfect for everyday family trip and creature comfort for the whole family. 4 categories coup, sedan, midsize then full size. This 2nd gen traverse is almost at the top of the full size vehicle...hell it even has more cargo than sone of the full size suv.
I absolutely love that new bodystyle. It's got the look, the power, and creature comfort for everyday commuting and long road trip comfort. Try finding all of this in other midsize suv, and you won't find it. I got the NA V6 AWD 3LT and it is a dream to drive. Not only that it is very friendly to servuce the vehicle. No fuss, no headache whatsoever. Uncomplicated is how I would describe this 2nd gen Traverse. Thats how life should be if done right. Some people might not find this 2nd gen traverse sexy. Thats okay! I see complicate is more to your taste and lifestyle. As the saying,"Life is only complicated when you let it. " If it doesn't look right or feel right when shoping for a new vehicle, chances are, that vehicle will never be alright in the long run because you chose it poorly.
Want to replace my Envoy with something similar but haven't quite found a replacement. Was looking at the new Acadia but it's smaller inside & not as versatile as my Envoy. This looks to be better size wise but lacks presence to me! My Envoy has been a work horse & very reliable unbelievably so! Don't really want get rid of it but it's aging.Over 216,000 on it with some character dings but I love this thing! Would love to have another if only they still made them.Guess I'll review this Traverse a little more to see how it measures up to my aging Envoy or dare I go import??
We narrowed our choices down between the Traverse and the Durango. Wife like the looks of the Traverse better and I heard to many negative opinions from some of my gear head buddies about the Durango. I was getting sucked in on the V8 srt package of the Durango but, then the price was up close to the Tahoe.
The Durango is just more of a high performance suv. I personally don't like the bodystyle of the Durango. It is just too funky for me. In my youth year...maybe the Durango would be great for street racing whatnot, but now I'm all about creature comfort and family.
Took a few years but GM finally got the Ford foot activated liftgate, VW got it a couple of years ago, Korea got it after that, I wonder how much Ford gets paid for that.
Just bought a 2018 Chevy Traverse. Test drove many times the Toyota Highlander and the Kia Sorrento.But I can get over 30MPG on the highway and the ride and the transmission are smooth. There is plenty of power also. I traded in my Mazda CX5, I needed something bigger. The final price was lower that the Toyota and the Kia with the same options.
Bring back the Trailblazer. The Traverse was meant to replace the trailblazer and here we are 15 years later and this thing still can't tow as much as the trailblazer.
I can say this with absoluye confidance after working on so many of these: fuck the trailblazer, and everyone who bought one and supports it. Its the biggest running joke of a vehicle on the road. What a pile.
Rabbi Jesus The point I was trying to make was, was that GM should make a similar size body on frame SUV like the old trailblazer that can actually do truck things like towing. For some the Tahoe and Suburban are just too big and expensive. This new Traverse is just a gloried mini van.
The trailblazer could only tow 4000 pounds it was under stress when I towed my pontoon and it doesn't have the power of this new traverse unless u had a v8 trailblazer and the traverse has more room inside
For those that tow, but not too much, who go off-road, but not too far and need the space, the High Country Traverse is a great way to say 25K over the more loaded Tahoe/Yukon.
ktpinnacle Be a hit with limo conpanies and hired drivers. I see more Tahoes and Suburbans with TLC, livery, plates, then civilian plates. For TLC work, most other 3 row SUVs are too tight on the 3ed row. I've never seen a black highlander with TLC plates.
I only see the Suburbans as limos in the LA area - not the previous version of this rig. But it'll be interesting if these go that route. Roomy and more efficient than the Suburbans
The premier and the high country model just have more safety tech features. Features which I don't really need and can definitely live without. It's just another added expense feature. If you're a safe driver and you drive modestly. The LT version is more than enough at a much more reasonable price.
In 2 wheel drive I would agree. If you need a four-wheel drive, that's not really offered in most minivans. I'd buy a minivan if they had a bit more ground clearance and all-wheel drive. But they don't, so I had to get a big fat SUV. Would love of my SUV came with sliding doors!
That's true that most people should just buy a minivan, but there are good reasons for a crossover. We needed interior space, AWD (we live in the mountains), towing capacity, and didn't want to burn an entire refinery worth of gas. No minivan can tow 5000 lbs, and we often tow our ATVs. And no traditional SUV can come close to the 28 MPG we get on the highway with our 2019 Traverse.
LRulesTheWorld They don't import their China made cars to the USA. Complain about Mexico, where many of the GM cars are now made. GM expanding to Asia and production outside of the usa was in the works long before the bailout.
Frank E well, at least someone admitted it. They started in 1999 by planning to kill off Olds. Then followed through, and began moving EVERYTHING to China. Including their australian and european factories, brands, and designs. Almost everything they make now comes from China, not mexico. Only a handful of things come from there and canada. They are close to 100% full chinese intergation. And, they are inching even closer to bankruptcy with each new move. When this company dies for good next time, the world will be a much better place.
Judging by the Chevrolet traverses mediocre reliability record it is previous generation I don't know why anyone would invest so much money in this new one. They also suffer from poor resale values due to their sketchy pasts. The Toyota Highlander and Honda Pilot would be much more sensible and much safer bets
You mean the Pilot with the faulty transmission and the unintuitive dual-screen infotainment? No thanks. I'd take the Highlander anytime instead. But I need Android Auto!
The past is the past...move on. Not every vehicle is unreliable if they're well taking care. Neglect and even the most reliable vehicle can become unreliable. Toyota and Honda just have a good history of building quality parts hence why they're so reliable. It's really up to the design engineering, the management team and how well were they put together. Any vehicle can be reliable if properly maintained by the owner.
If this traverse doesn't impress you, then nothing ever will. There's a reason why they have 4 different category vehicle size. Coup, sedan, midsize and full size vehilce duh. Why make things so complicate than it didn't need to? You want a full size than get a full size and stop complicating yourself for chris sake!
Maybe someone that doesn't want a Ford or a Toyota? Let me guess.....you are one of those people that think anyone that doesn't agree with YOUR choice of vehicle are just dumb. What a great country this would be if everyone drove the same exact car....but it better be the car that YOU choose for everyone. But let me answer your dumb ass question from a personal perspective. I lease my wife a new car every 3 years. We are coming up on the end of our lease on the Buick Enclave which was a fantastic vehicle for what we use it for. But now we want the same basic vehicle at a lower cost and the Traverse is the less expensive version of the Enclave. But we may end up with a new Enclave too. So would I buy this car? Meaning buy it and own it long term? NO! But I sure as hell wouldn't BUY a Highlander or Explorer either.
I have Traverse 2018. One day the car turned auto off and I tried to switch it off before it start again and go out off car but while my finger go the the switch I removed my foot from the break then the car started and I switch it of at the same time it happen very fast. But after 2 minutes I started the car to drive the car not making revers and it drive to D very harsh and not changing the speed only drive to 1st speed, I drove it slowly to home the I switch it off after 15 minutes I started it the car become fine and evry thing is OK. I passed to UMA our dealer. they checked the gear System they told the car is fine nothing wrong, do I have to make further action? Any way I have filling changing speeds not smoth as it was Any one expert have any suggestions.
Junk. Just pure junk. Less room than a station wagon, less fuel economy than an 70s v8, 9 pointless speeds for a vehicke thatll never use them, and more plastic and touch screens than what you can find at a toy store. And its extremely ugly to boot. Another big L for "new GM"
Benjamin Burkhardt its about as large as a caprice sedan. Its downright tiny. Always has been. Compared to the Atlus, its even worse yet. "New GM" cant even get the full size segment right.
Lensixpackisback im able to get 27mpg out of a 4bl chevy 350 at minimum. Thats a small block v8 getting better mpg than a brand new 2018 vehicle with EFI and full ECU control. Even the 455 Olds motor I have laying around got better gas mileage than this heap when I pulled it. And whats even sadder, is that it only needed 4 speeds to achieve this feat. Not 9. If modern tech isnt able surpass older tech, maybe its time to stop throwing pointless and complicated computer trash into it, and focus on a fresh new idea. "New gm" wont do that though. Too much money to be had by using chinese tech. And by size, I mean this turd is downright tiny compared to everything else on the road. A full sized station wagon had massive CI compared to this 'crossover' crap they are pushing. Even the other vehicles in this segment are larger than this. The interior is like sitting in a coffin. They stopped caring again, and just threw whatever onto an restructured platform, and called it a day. Typical. But I wouldnt expect you people to understand. You see shiny chrome and a touchscreen and decide to sign over your entire life savings for junk like this.
LRulesTheWorld Not sure what you’re talking about... this is one of the biggest in the segment not the smallest. Much larger than the Highlander and still a little bigger than the Pilot.
I sat in one at the International Auto Show and was pretty impressed. Actually, all the Chevy/GMC trucks I sat in ( Sierra, Silverado HD, Silverado 1500 light duty, traverse) we're pretty impressive. They just felt relaxed and comfortable, with a positive feel behind the wheel and well-thought out ergonomics. The Chevy cars, nice, but I felt maybe trying a little too hard to be "snazzy." I would take it over the plain Jane interiors of some import family sedans, though. I love that the styling on the new Traverse is more truck-like and rugged. I was just starting to get more used to the first-gen Traverse styling but this is way better!
It's way better than the 1st gen traverse. I just didn't find the 1st gen traverse all that great with the funky look and design.
Wow a lot of haters here. We just bought this to eventually replace our Tahoe. We would have gotten another Tahoe but, can't get over the price of them. The traverse is 95% perfect for us, only problem I have a 5000 lb. boat. That is the tow capacity of the traverse. We'll have to see in the summer. Very happy with it the last 2 months we have owed it.
just get an explorer with the F150 engine and it'll be no problem
Haters because they can't afford a new car
Same engine used the Cadillac ATS, CTS, and CT6. Also used in the Impala and other GM cars. This engine is new for Traverse, but well used by GM for a few years now. Should be fairly reliable by now.
Very nice this Chevrolet Traverse
Traverse done growed up. Lookin good abd thick in the right places
Yup! This is a fully matured midsize suv.
I just noticed the Traverse. I think it is an attractive SUV.
That's because it is. I see you have attention to details as I have. I work on my 2018 Traverse myself and it is a breath of fresh air. No fuss, no headaches.
Almost bought this when shopping 3-rows this fall. Didn't need so much size so ended up cx9. Kinda wish I had gone Traverse.
Well sell it and buy one
The CX-9 is just an okay suv. The bodystyle is too funky and very misplace components that just never made any sense to me. It may have better material here and there, but the rest is just mediocre and not in the right place. This 2nd gen traverse just look more like a very mature suv. This is the proper midsize suv at its finest. The other competitors just seems like a hit and miss suv that just didn't really reach maturity level. Not sure why some people just love compact vehicle for a suv. They were better off just sticking to a sedan if they want a compact vehicle. The whole point of going to a suv is for the cargo space. Not too big not too small but just perfect for everyday family trip and creature comfort for the whole family. 4 categories coup, sedan, midsize then full size. This 2nd gen traverse is almost at the top of the full size vehicle...hell it even has more cargo than sone of the full size suv.
I absolutely love that new bodystyle. It's got the look, the power, and creature comfort for everyday commuting and long road trip comfort. Try finding all of this in other midsize suv, and you won't find it. I got the NA V6 AWD 3LT and it is a dream to drive. Not only that it is very friendly to servuce the vehicle. No fuss, no headache whatsoever. Uncomplicated is how I would describe this 2nd gen Traverse. Thats how life should be if done right. Some people might not find this 2nd gen traverse sexy. Thats okay! I see complicate is more to your taste and lifestyle. As the saying,"Life is only complicated when you let it. " If it doesn't look right or feel right when shoping for a new vehicle, chances are, that vehicle will never be alright in the long run because you chose it poorly.
Вот это старый добрый Motor Week))) Есть и разгон и торможение и обзор автомобиля👍. Мне понравилось.
i feel like watching something from the 80s
Want to replace my Envoy with something similar but haven't quite found a replacement. Was looking at the new Acadia but it's smaller inside & not as versatile as my Envoy. This looks to be better size wise but lacks presence to me! My Envoy has been a work horse & very reliable unbelievably so! Don't really want get rid of it but it's aging.Over 216,000 on it with some character dings but I love this thing! Would love to have another if only they still made them.Guess I'll review this Traverse a little more to see how it measures up to my aging Envoy or dare I go import??
They should bring back the APV. Crossovers have the disadvantages of both a minivan and an SUV.
We narrowed our choices down between the Traverse and the Durango. Wife like the looks of the Traverse better and I heard to many negative opinions from some of my gear head buddies about the Durango. I was getting sucked in on the V8 srt package of the Durango but, then the price was up close to the Tahoe.
The Durango is just more of a high performance suv. I personally don't like the bodystyle of the Durango. It is just too funky for me. In my youth year...maybe the Durango would be great for street racing whatnot, but now I'm all about creature comfort and family.
Love my 18 Traverse Premier
How much bronzer does that guy have on??
This guy has been yelling at me for like, 30 years.
When inside at indonesia..but not expensive ..old years chevrolet good brand from indonesia..we wait in indonesia .
Bringing back the trailblazer would be cool
I still miss my 2008 Trailblazer SS.
Oh, and in other news... they are bringing back the Blazer! Possibly it's to compete with the forthcoming Bronco. It should be very interesting!
The screwed that up, is a mega equinox or smaller traverse...
Lovely this is fine good looking jeep you are okay keep going you are the best keep it up
Took a few years but GM finally got the Ford foot activated liftgate, VW got it a couple of years ago, Korea got it after that, I wonder how much Ford gets paid for that.
Just bought a 2018 Chevy Traverse. Test drove many times the Toyota Highlander and the Kia Sorrento.But I can get over 30MPG on the highway and the ride and the transmission are smooth. There is plenty of power also. I traded in my Mazda CX5, I needed something bigger. The final price was lower that the Toyota and the Kia with the same options.
Bring back the Trailblazer. The Traverse was meant to replace the trailblazer and here we are 15 years later and this thing still can't tow as much as the trailblazer.
Anthony Mascolo gm sells a BOF trailblazer overseas, looks a bit like the new traverse
I can say this with absoluye confidance after working on so many of these: fuck the trailblazer, and everyone who bought one and supports it. Its the biggest running joke of a vehicle on the road. What a pile.
Rabbi Jesus The point I was trying to make was, was that GM should make a similar size body on frame SUV like the old trailblazer that can actually do truck things like towing. For some the Tahoe and Suburban are just too big and expensive. This new Traverse is just a gloried mini van.
I had a Trailblazer, garbage.
The trailblazer could only tow 4000 pounds it was under stress when I towed my pontoon and it doesn't have the power of this new traverse unless u had a v8 trailblazer and the traverse has more room inside
Very popular with customers and that profile is a big visual selling point
It's the epitome of a real proper midsize suv of its class.
I wish it wasn't a 9 speed. All the 9 speed autos i've seen have the same bs, they hunt for gears and often end up falling apart.
For those that tow, but not too much, who go off-road, but not too far and need the space, the High Country Traverse is a great way to say 25K over the more loaded Tahoe/Yukon.
But it’s junk...
ktpinnacle
Be a hit with limo conpanies and hired drivers. I see more Tahoes and Suburbans with TLC, livery, plates, then civilian plates. For TLC work, most other 3 row SUVs are too tight on the 3ed row. I've never seen a black highlander with TLC plates.
I only see the Suburbans as limos in the LA area - not the previous version of this rig. But it'll be interesting if these go that route. Roomy and more efficient than the Suburbans
ktpinnacle also more junk than other limos...
The premier and the high country model just have more safety tech features. Features which I don't really need and can definitely live without. It's just another added expense feature. If you're a safe driver and you drive modestly. The LT version is more than enough at a much more reasonable price.
Is it me or has General Motors given up reliability for luxury?
Love mine!
never understood these crossovers. Its a minivan without sliding doors. Just do yourself a favor and get the van. Its cheaper and way more versatile.
well if you're a skier or any outdoorsman...you need the ground clearance
ziggyff Then just get an suv...
In 2 wheel drive I would agree. If you need a four-wheel drive, that's not really offered in most minivans. I'd buy a minivan if they had a bit more ground clearance and all-wheel drive. But they don't, so I had to get a big fat SUV. Would love of my SUV came with sliding doors!
That's true that most people should just buy a minivan, but there are good reasons for a crossover. We needed interior space, AWD (we live in the mountains), towing capacity, and didn't want to burn an entire refinery worth of gas. No minivan can tow 5000 lbs, and we often tow our ATVs. And no traditional SUV can come close to the 28 MPG we get on the highway with our 2019 Traverse.
Does anyone actually pay attention to these lame carbon footprint specs when buying an SUV?
Nice
It might be larger than the previous model but the seats are much smaller that’s how they get the extra room.
excellent
It sounded, annoyingly, like I was listening to “Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous” but with a Chevy I knew it couldn’t be!
Traverse lol I miss V8 every where..wtf was gone wrong with USA 😢
Acca Larentia GM moved to china after the bailouts and became "new gm". That is what happened to their cars.
Acca Larentia
Get a Tahoe or Suburban.
LRulesTheWorld
They don't import their China made cars to the USA. Complain about Mexico, where many of the GM cars are now made. GM expanding to Asia and production outside of the usa was in the works long before the bailout.
Most V6s have the power of old V8 engines.
Frank E well, at least someone admitted it. They started in 1999 by planning to kill off Olds. Then followed through, and began moving EVERYTHING to China. Including their australian and european factories, brands, and designs. Almost everything they make now comes from China, not mexico. Only a handful of things come from there and canada. They are close to 100% full chinese intergation. And, they are inching even closer to bankruptcy with each new move. When this company dies for good next time, the world will be a much better place.
Judging by the Chevrolet traverses mediocre reliability record it is previous generation I don't know why anyone would invest so much money in this new one. They also suffer from poor resale values due to their sketchy pasts. The Toyota Highlander and Honda Pilot would be much more sensible and much safer bets
You mean the Pilot with the faulty transmission and the unintuitive dual-screen infotainment? No thanks. I'd take the Highlander anytime instead. But I need Android Auto!
The past is the past...move on. Not every vehicle is unreliable if they're well taking care. Neglect and even the most reliable vehicle can become unreliable. Toyota and Honda just have a good history of building quality parts hence why they're so reliable. It's really up to the design engineering, the management team and how well were they put together. Any vehicle can be reliable if properly maintained by the owner.
I’m not impressed by this vehicle design .just make them larger and more comfortable
If this traverse doesn't impress you, then nothing ever will. There's a reason why they have 4 different category vehicle size. Coup, sedan, midsize and full size vehilce duh. Why make things so complicate than it didn't need to? You want a full size than get a full size and stop complicating yourself for chris sake!
chevy put the 5.3 in it...traverse ss
Need a SS version
Who would buy this over a highlander or explorer
It's tough to list 125,000 names here. Expect that number to increase - this model is a far better rig than the previous model.
You mean the p.o.s. explorer that catches on fire.
Anyone who has more intelligence than a pea.
Grim Reaper or makes them sick with exhaust
Maybe someone that doesn't want a Ford or a Toyota? Let me guess.....you are one of those people that think anyone that doesn't agree with YOUR choice of vehicle are just dumb. What a great country this would be if everyone drove the same exact car....but it better be the car that YOU choose for everyone.
But let me answer your dumb ass question from a personal perspective. I lease my wife a new car every 3 years. We are coming up on the end of our lease on the Buick Enclave which was a fantastic vehicle for what we use it for. But now we want the same basic vehicle at a lower cost and the Traverse is the less expensive version of the Enclave. But we may end up with a new Enclave too. So would I buy this car? Meaning buy it and own it long term? NO! But I sure as hell wouldn't BUY a Highlander or Explorer either.
The jelly graphics on the infotainment is so 2005. Hopefully that is the only "vintage" on this lug.
What about the dated font they are using for the gauges and IP? Reminds me from the 1980 GM cars.
I have Traverse 2018. One day the car turned auto off and I tried to switch it off before it start again and go out off car but while my finger go the the switch I removed my foot from the break then the car started and I switch it of at the same time it happen very fast. But after 2 minutes I started the car to drive the car not making revers and it drive to D very harsh and not changing the speed only drive to 1st speed, I drove it slowly to home the I switch it off after 15 minutes I started it the car become fine and evry thing is OK.
I passed to UMA our dealer. they checked the gear System they told the car is fine nothing wrong, do I have to make further action?
Any way I have filling changing speeds not smoth as it was
Any one expert have any suggestions.
9 speed trans and still poor fuel economy? My 5 speed does better.
homerslogic you know that's about the class average for fuel economy right
my 4 speed auto from 2003 does better
My two speed Powerglide does better at the dragstrip than your five speed.
The whole point of more gears was better fuel economy. I get better with five. It should be alot better. So basically 6,7,8,9 are for show?
Equinox and Enclave looks better.
Chevy just screams low rent. I learned long ago, pay the extra money for Toyota.
Looks like a 4 door minivan.
You sure you're not just blind? Do you even know what a minivan look like? Can you even tell the difference between a hippo and an elephant?
Clumsy transmission? More crap
troyover9000 😂
Multiple other reviews say it shifts well and is quick.
but its a Chevy, thats enough reason alone to say no to this
Nodq Soulja oh looks it’s someone from 20 years ago
g496r500t Or should I say, a person living under a rock.
Seems like the new Chevy Crapverse. Domestic name built for the Chinese market
did they realize it's 2018? what is this shit? i can't get jiggy with this !
Lease dont buy!
GM styling is uninspiring, generic, very dull and vanilla. Nothing outstanding.
Junk. Just pure junk. Less room than a station wagon, less fuel economy than an 70s v8, 9 pointless speeds for a vehicke thatll never use them, and more plastic and touch screens than what you can find at a toy store. And its extremely ugly to boot. Another big L for "new GM"
LRulesTheWorld Clueless post.
Lexus sets the new standards for ugly, Toyota Poor Runner is first runner up!
Benjamin Burkhardt its about as large as a caprice sedan. Its downright tiny. Always has been. Compared to the Atlus, its even worse yet. "New GM" cant even get the full size segment right.
Lensixpackisback im able to get 27mpg out of a 4bl chevy 350 at minimum. Thats a small block v8 getting better mpg than a brand new 2018 vehicle with EFI and full ECU control. Even the 455 Olds motor I have laying around got better gas mileage than this heap when I pulled it. And whats even sadder, is that it only needed 4 speeds to achieve this feat. Not 9. If modern tech isnt able surpass older tech, maybe its time to stop throwing pointless and complicated computer trash into it, and focus on a fresh new idea. "New gm" wont do that though. Too much money to be had by using chinese tech.
And by size, I mean this turd is downright tiny compared to everything else on the road. A full sized station wagon had massive CI compared to this 'crossover' crap they are pushing. Even the other vehicles in this segment are larger than this. The interior is like sitting in a coffin. They stopped caring again, and just threw whatever onto an restructured platform, and called it a day. Typical. But I wouldnt expect you people to understand. You see shiny chrome and a touchscreen and decide to sign over your entire life savings for junk like this.
LRulesTheWorld Not sure what you’re talking about... this is one of the biggest in the segment not the smallest. Much larger than the Highlander and still a little bigger than the Pilot.
What a piece of junk...look where they put the name on the door! Who the fuck thought of that?