The book she mentions at the end, Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors, is GOLD... I ABSOLUTELY recommend anyone, client and clinician, get this book for themselves or their practice. It rides the line of intellectual, scientific and personal, relational, allowing for a better understanding of how to approach a mind that, in some cases, is not neurotypical and, in many cases I presume, not behaving neurotypically. Therefore, whether from the outside or in it offers an approach and an understanding that goes beyond general psychology’s blanket statement for the definition of “PTSD”, and actually goes to the source: the fragile and in this case fragmented ego, the self... you. I’m not going to pretend that it’s an easy read; part of the reason I, a speed reader, take an hour to get through 7 pages is because there is so much insight and information packed into each page it’s almost hard to process at times. Since the topic here is loneliness I can honestly say that the book’s scope, a depth of knowledge relevant to experiences, losses and triumphs I have every day because of what I have been through, has helped me to challenge my need to suffer in silence and alone. Thank you, Dr. Fisher!
Laura Parker’s observation / question regarding loneliness and one’s disconnection is so apt . If , as Jung says , dissociation leads to a sort of ‘soul death’ it makes sense that a trauma survivor is limited in their ability to revel in the mystery of existence .
I think people sense when you have unresolved conflicts. So much of our interactions are subconscious. I think there’s a vibration given off when there is a lot of internal conflict going on and that could scare people away so you end up re-creating the situation you grew up with
I think the traumatized person feels Cognitive Dissonance between her/himself and the other person that makes her avoidant. Generally, people are not much aware of oddities in others...they themselves have issues of which they probably are unaware.
I had to replay Janina's definition of trauma....I'm surprised to hear her say that a shut down, unspeaking parent is not traumatic. I think it is traumatic for the child to not be able to access the parent emotionally. Unmet emotional needs leave the child to their own devices when they do not have the devices developed yet to manage that.
Thank you so much for this. A question, if you don't mind. At the beginning of the video Ms. Fisher mentions that she uses the definition of trauma as defined by Karen ... the last name sounds like "Sack Vitny" (spelling?) Who is the person (Karen...S-V?) Ms. Fisher is refers to? I have tried googling all permutations of the spelling of the name that I can think of and have come up with nothing. Thanks in advance.
I believe there is a contradiction between what she says in the beginning and the rest of the interview. She basically says that having withdrawn, depressed parents is not trauma, it is just painful. Then she talks for the rest of the interview about the trauma of not being seen or reciprocated which leads to loneliness. In my opinion, everything is trauma depending on the sensitivity of your nervous system. If a child feels unseen by detached and depressed parents, that will he overwhelming for his nervous system because he will feel there is no one there to support of help them at an age when all they have is their parents. So no, it is not "painful", it is "trauma". And we are a traumatized generation as a result of bad parenting during capitalism.
Thank you! I was so confused by her trauma definition and the situations described being just painful and not traumatic. That’s not what a lot of clinicians would say.
Janina is talking about a perceived threat to life and there being no help forthcoming. This is a completely different level of trauma to having depressed or otherwise challenged parents.
In trauma -there is no way of explaining the feelings and the sensitivity that you reproduce it from inside out, yes. From basic lack of trust and then the feelings are reproduce over within. It is more than developing compassion for self because they do not know how-this now needs to be used for adult. It is a form of rejection of self …distancing others also becomes a habit of our culture. I also believe the pandemic can create more trauma that connects to the child inside.
No you're wrong Janina. It is not a memory. It is reality and it needs to be validated in itself to feel less lonely. Loneliness is a DISCONECTION from self. I can VERY WELL remember the events of childhood and being SOOOO alone e no one to come help me n then alienating from myself making me more lonely True trauma survivors don't go on to 'develop' relationships family etc they stay HIDDEN from society from SHAME Loneliness feels like DEATH
The book she mentions at the end, Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors, is GOLD... I ABSOLUTELY recommend anyone, client and clinician, get this book for themselves or their practice. It rides the line of intellectual, scientific and personal, relational, allowing for a better understanding of how to approach a mind that, in some cases, is not neurotypical and, in many cases I presume, not behaving neurotypically. Therefore, whether from the outside or in it offers an approach and an understanding that goes beyond general psychology’s blanket statement for the definition of “PTSD”, and actually goes to the source: the fragile and in this case fragmented ego, the self... you. I’m not going to pretend that it’s an easy read; part of the reason I, a speed reader, take an hour to get through 7 pages is because there is so much insight and information packed into each page it’s almost hard to process at times. Since the topic here is loneliness I can honestly say that the book’s scope, a depth of knowledge relevant to experiences, losses and triumphs I have every day because of what I have been through, has helped me to challenge my need to suffer in silence and alone. Thank you, Dr. Fisher!
Laura Parker’s observation / question regarding loneliness and one’s disconnection is so apt . If , as Jung says , dissociation leads to a sort of ‘soul death’ it makes sense that a trauma survivor is limited in their ability to revel in the mystery of existence .
I think people sense when you have unresolved conflicts. So much of our interactions are subconscious. I think there’s a vibration given off when there is a lot of internal conflict going on and that could scare people away so you end up re-creating the situation you grew up with
Yes, this is my experience!
I think the traumatized person feels Cognitive Dissonance between her/himself and the other person that makes her avoidant. Generally, people are not much aware of oddities in others...they themselves have issues of which they probably are unaware.
What a distinctly precise definition of trauma, thanks
Thank you for explaining what is going on with me. It finally makes sense
Thank you for this wonderfully well delivered short talk on trauma and loneliness, it is so deeply insightful and beautifully delivered.
I had to replay Janina's definition of trauma....I'm surprised to hear her say that a shut down, unspeaking parent is not traumatic. I think it is traumatic for the child to not be able to access the parent emotionally. Unmet emotional needs leave the child to their own devices when they do not have the devices developed yet to manage that.
Thank you to both presenters for this conversation. So insightful and so well expressed :)
Wow! Thank you so much for sharing this video! FINALLY, I UNDERSTAND! 😭
Neglect is trauma. Unavailable parents equals trauma. Neglect is the core of trauma
Thank's for this fantastic interview that I'm listening from France 🙏🙏🙏
Thank you so much for this. A question, if you don't mind. At the beginning of the video Ms. Fisher mentions that she uses the definition of trauma as defined by Karen ... the last name sounds like "Sack Vitny" (spelling?) Who is the person (Karen...S-V?) Ms. Fisher is refers to?
I have tried googling all permutations of the spelling of the name that I can think of and have come up with nothing. Thanks in advance.
The person quoted is Karen Saakvitne.
I'm lonely to death I have severe cptsd and avpd and as result I spent my entire life lonely and now decade home disabled unpaired
I have had severe disassociation for months and cry a lot. I wonder if that’s what is happening. It makes sense.
I believe there is a contradiction between what she says in the beginning and the rest of the interview. She basically says that having withdrawn, depressed parents is not trauma, it is just painful. Then she talks for the rest of the interview about the trauma of not being seen or reciprocated which leads to loneliness. In my opinion, everything is trauma depending on the sensitivity of your nervous system. If a child feels unseen by detached and depressed parents, that will he overwhelming for his nervous system because he will feel there is no one there to support of help them at an age when all they have is their parents. So no, it is not "painful", it is "trauma". And we are a traumatized generation as a result of bad parenting during capitalism.
Thank you! I was so confused by her trauma definition and the situations described being just painful and not traumatic. That’s not what a lot of clinicians would say.
Yes - have to agree with you . Here it doesn’t make much sense what Janina’s trying to qualify .
Janina is talking about a perceived threat to life and there being no help forthcoming. This is a completely different level of trauma to having depressed or otherwise challenged parents.
I love what you say “ bad parenting during capitalism”, I was so unseen and ignored, during my childhood I felt like a thing.
@sueholdroyd9716 emotional neglect is a threat to your life if it is persistent, isn't it?
In trauma -there is no way of explaining the feelings and the sensitivity that you reproduce it from inside out, yes.
From basic lack of trust and then the feelings are reproduce over within. It is more than developing compassion for self because they do not know how-this now needs to be used for adult. It is a form of rejection of self
…distancing others also becomes a habit of our culture.
I also believe the pandemic can create more trauma that connects to the child inside.
You can usually create the ability to hold others because you have felt that…yes toward the end of this post.
I also know the body can not be left out of any healing.
If you need a mother or a big sister, here's your gal.
What's so wrong with being alone?
No you're wrong Janina.
It is not a memory. It is reality and it needs to be validated in itself to feel less lonely.
Loneliness is a DISCONECTION from self.
I can VERY WELL remember the events of childhood and being SOOOO alone e no one to come help me n then alienating from myself making me more lonely
True trauma survivors don't go on to 'develop' relationships family etc they stay HIDDEN from society from SHAME
Loneliness feels like DEATH
😔😞
instagram ad