You could build a UPS into the rack after the input power selector to maintain uninterrupted power. You could also make it an external option with an outlet and an inlet in the back with the option to bypass for situations where the UPS isn't needed. If you ran coach comms off that, the UPS is a nice to have. Any other on-field things from broadcast or house PA should be on their own. That said, one of those for ProBowl back in the day would have been awesome for the stage power for IEM transmitters and RF receivers. Self contained, shore power for parking spots and generator during rehearsals and game. No need to drag L21-30 or cams to the stage for audio!
I sort of followed your logic with tripping one "bank" to avoid having the others pull even more, but I can't help think that, in the hands of less-technical people, the groups with individual metering and breakers is going to confuse people into thinking it can handle 3*15A, and it isn't intuitive to sum the group currents. I would have stuck with a single master breaker/meter. Even average homeowners are used to treating a breaker as a maximum safe rating of that branch circuit. Another feature you may want to include is an optional GFCI breaker when wheeling into locker rooms or other outdoor wet locations.
Thanks Joe! I agree! People dont realize what modern equipment actually requires in available amperage. A normal powered "stick" PA with subs only draws around 4 amps at full tilt.
I moved to battery packs, AKA Solar Generator. Charge it and bring one or more depending on the watt hours required for the event. As an FYI, I mounted a similar power meter into a traditional construction spider box, for foul weather and GFCI protection. I opted for a different panel meter that displays, Volts, Amps, Watts, and Watt Hours. An advantage of the module is the ability to set alarm limits that flash the display when the set point is reached, such as 500 Watts. Yes not practical for sideline where 50A 250V twist lock is not available. My use is not for sideline, but for the main sound system for smaller events. Larger events often use 200 Amp 240 Volt lug in power.
This is not as illogical as you make out. I built a test outlet strip to test electronic products for a company that does final testing on their stuff. Each device pulls less than one watt from the wall. You just need a lot of sockets to get a lot of products tested in a reasonable time frame.
Meanwhile me over here putting a 32 amp three phase distro with six fused 16A single phase outlets and a single fused 16A three phase outlet in an 8x8x8" box that has some legs included in that size!... And you should look into OA Windsor for some nice rubber 4-way enclosures. With the option for a regular fitted cable or Powercon in/out.
I designed this so the face panel can be generic with the back box changing for different inputs. You could easily swap this to a L21-20 input and break the legs out. I thought this panel was “UA-cam worthy” because of the transfer switch and 2 inputs. Gotta check out the Windsor boxes. I use the rubberized Leviton boxes for pendants which though durable….are very expensive.
@billylaguardia Gotcha and well explained. Two things I forgot to mention in my comment and what I would have done: Main breaker for all banks combined, especially on the generator input to protect it from being overloaded and adding GFCIs, especially when it can be used in wet conditions like in the locker room and outside field side. Two other things to consider: A grounding rod for the generator and calculating the maximum power/current that can be drawn when the cable reel is fully wound up and that like only 3 foot of cable is used. And let us not forget the gigantic sticker stating NOT to use the generator indoors. Your design isn't bad but people are idiots. And what is the first job of an integrator? Right, make things idiot proof....
@billylaguardia About the OA Windsor boxes: Silver Creek Audio has them. Check his channel for more information and his opinion on them. And how come that I, a Dutch resident, knows about them and you don't? 😅😅😅
So I could draw 14 Amps on Group 1, another 14 Amps on Group 2, and 14 Amps on Group 3, without tripping a breaker on the panel? I sure hope the source circuit is wired properly with a good working 15 Amp breaker. I also noticed that you've installed 6 outlets that can take a 20 Amp plug, but the supply cord only has a 15 Amp plug on it. In the hands of an experienced technician, I'm sure this distro would work fine, but in the hands of someone with no technical background, that thing is a fire hazard.
Conversely, you could draw 14.98 amps on Group 1, .01 on Group 2 and .01 on Group 3... The generator has a 15amp breaker over its output. Whatever outlet you are plugging the reel into also has a breaker. The real limiting factor is the load on the circuit you are plugging the system into - hence the volt meters. A fire hazard? 12awg THHN wire, crimped ring terminals, solder joints with heatshrink and built into a 1/8" aluminum enclosure?! Psshh... At least subscribe if you're going to insult my beautiful work.
@billylaguardia I meant no insult, and I apologize for being so direct. Your construction is beautiful, and I highly doubt that would be the fire hazard. My comment of fire hazard refers to the supply cable potentially getting a heavier load than it is designed for, but the plug would definitely get hot in my scenario. There are so many inexperienced users out there, that will always take things to the extreme.
@@charlesfisher6620 Indeed. 12AWG@125ft is not 15A anymore. (just watch the voltage sag) Putting 20A plugs on a 15A panel is just BEGGING people to misuse the thing. I have seen too many "lesser" extension cords melt without even reaching their on-paper rating. Given the _intended_ use case, I doubt any of this will ever be a problem, but the "code violations" are there. (paying $$$$ for something that isn't inspected or certified by any respected org... not wise.)
Nice Idea with that switch. Had you concidered having an idividual switch for each bank? That way you could use 30 Amps(one bank on the Generator, one on Landpower)?
I designed the concept to be generic enough that the front panel design can basically stay the same with the back box changing for different inputs. Obviously 15 outlets sharing 15 amps is not going to work for heavy use settings. Though, NEC's rule of thumb code for residential applications is 1 amp per standard duplex outlet. As I mentioned in the video, this is a very specific design for athletic applications. These users are basically plugging in their phones, a few LED lights and various low draw items. Its more about the amount of plugs available vs amps required. With that being said...I build everything per order. I'll build it however ya want!
It's $$$$ because it's in a roadie case. People who buy this stuff do not care about the cost. (those who are forced to use it will forever whine about it constantly breaking and having to fix it.) Now, with a Honda generator in there, it'd be a steal at $6300. 🙂 (What? No $60 GFCI outlets? Not that I bother with GFCI in any of my portable crap - and it literally lays in puddles in parking lots.)
@@jfbeam well. Since you asked. Here are the basic breakdowns on the system: 1. The integrated panel is $1500. Which all things considered, I believe is fairly priced. The USB outlets are expensive. As an example, I buy the A&C combo outlets for $27ea. The dual C outlets are much more at around $50ea. If this was loaded with 15 - $8 duplex outlets, obviously the cost would be less. Also, no PCB’s here. That panel was hand wired point to point. 2. The generator costs $500. No law on using ours. You can use your own or delete the option. 3. The cable reel is another custom build. That’s a HD powder coated steel reel with an internal electrified slip ring so it’s always live. Not exactly an off the shelf part. 4. The case. Again, custom designed for this specific system. I don’t go out of my way to make LM stuff expensive. Our products are very custom and take a long time to design and build. We never get to recoup the engineering costs by amortizing them over volume sales since most projects are one off custom builds. So you pay for the engineering time which is again…not cheap. The system solves a very specific problem. Could you do this cheaper? Absolutely. However time is money. This system is ready to go in under a minute and packs up just as quick. All the components are built to survive being loaded in a truck and bounced around. Hope this helps anyone asking the big “why” question in terms of costs. -b
@@billylaguardia (for the record, _I didn't ask_ ) "Engineering"? Please. As I said, you get to sell these for thousands because the people buying them will pay it. There's nothing wrong with that, but saying it's worth it to people who aren't your customers... In the time it took you to dream this up, I can literally walk to Walmart and get a box of power strips, various usb charging towers, and an extension cord. Though I'd have to go to Harbour Freight to get a longer, higher gauge cord. Or drive across town to be ripped off by Camping World for a cord reel. (they do indeed exist ON STORE SHELVES) Also, those receptacles are not "designed" to bounce around in a truck - they're designed to be screwed into a box in a wall _that does not move._ (also not meant for outdoor use) (just one of the many "code violations", but neither you nor the customer cares.)
You know this is a portable panel that gets bounced around in a truck right? Its also 15 amps.... So what's worse....a disconnect coming undone or a solder joint? Seems like the solder joint is the safer option between the proverbial rock and hard place NEC code violation.
makes sense for massive amounts of power adapters
It’s a good idea, my only question is distance of cable and voltage & amperage loss once it’s under load.
You could build a UPS into the rack after the input power selector to maintain uninterrupted power. You could also make it an external option with an outlet and an inlet in the back with the option to bypass for situations where the UPS isn't needed. If you ran coach comms off that, the UPS is a nice to have. Any other on-field things from broadcast or house PA should be on their own. That said, one of those for ProBowl back in the day would have been awesome for the stage power for IEM transmitters and RF receivers. Self contained, shore power for parking spots and generator during rehearsals and game. No need to drag L21-30 or cams to the stage for audio!
I sort of followed your logic with tripping one "bank" to avoid having the others pull even more, but I can't help think that, in the hands of less-technical people, the groups with individual metering and breakers is going to confuse people into thinking it can handle 3*15A, and it isn't intuitive to sum the group currents. I would have stuck with a single master breaker/meter. Even average homeowners are used to treating a breaker as a maximum safe rating of that branch circuit. Another feature you may want to include is an optional GFCI breaker when wheeling into locker rooms or other outdoor wet locations.
You’ve been working up to this for many years😂 said lovingly
Yes but now it says "LM"....where it used to say "Furman"! 🤣
Actually a good idea, a nice option for bands playing outdoor parties or like family reunion events or very rural festivals off of a generator!
Thanks Joe! I agree! People dont realize what modern equipment actually requires in available amperage. A normal powered "stick" PA with subs only draws around 4 amps at full tilt.
I moved to battery packs, AKA Solar Generator. Charge it and bring one or more depending on the watt hours required for the event. As an FYI, I mounted a similar power meter into a traditional construction spider box, for foul weather and GFCI protection. I opted for a different panel meter that displays, Volts, Amps, Watts, and Watt Hours. An advantage of the module is the ability to set alarm limits that flash the display when the set point is reached, such as 500 Watts.
Yes not practical for sideline where 50A 250V twist lock is not available. My use is not for sideline, but for the main sound system for smaller events. Larger events often use 200 Amp 240 Volt lug in power.
This is not as illogical as you make out. I built a test outlet strip to test electronic products for a company that does final testing on their stuff. Each device pulls less than one watt from the wall. You just need a lot of sockets to get a lot of products tested in a reasonable time frame.
Haha I know. I figured the comments section would be spicy for this video. So far, I am correct. Thanks for the kind words!
Meanwhile me over here putting a 32 amp three phase distro with six fused 16A single phase outlets and a single fused 16A three phase outlet in an 8x8x8" box that has some legs included in that size!...
And you should look into OA Windsor for some nice rubber 4-way enclosures. With the option for a regular fitted cable or Powercon in/out.
I designed this so the face panel can be generic with the back box changing for different inputs. You could easily swap this to a L21-20 input and break the legs out. I thought this panel was “UA-cam worthy” because of the transfer switch and 2 inputs. Gotta check out the Windsor boxes. I use the rubberized Leviton boxes for pendants which though durable….are very expensive.
@billylaguardia Gotcha and well explained.
Two things I forgot to mention in my comment and what I would have done:
Main breaker for all banks combined, especially on the generator input to protect it from being overloaded and adding GFCIs, especially when it can be used in wet conditions like in the locker room and outside field side.
Two other things to consider:
A grounding rod for the generator and calculating the maximum power/current that can be drawn when the cable reel is fully wound up and that like only 3 foot of cable is used.
And let us not forget the gigantic sticker stating NOT to use the generator indoors.
Your design isn't bad but people are idiots. And what is the first job of an integrator? Right, make things idiot proof....
@billylaguardia About the OA Windsor boxes:
Silver Creek Audio has them. Check his channel for more information and his opinion on them.
And how come that I, a Dutch resident, knows about them and you don't? 😅😅😅
So I could draw 14 Amps on Group 1, another 14 Amps on Group 2, and 14 Amps on Group 3, without tripping a breaker on the panel? I sure hope the source circuit is wired properly with a good working 15 Amp breaker. I also noticed that you've installed 6 outlets that can take a 20 Amp plug, but the supply cord only has a 15 Amp plug on it. In the hands of an experienced technician, I'm sure this distro would work fine, but in the hands of someone with no technical background, that thing is a fire hazard.
Conversely, you could draw 14.98 amps on Group 1, .01 on Group 2 and .01 on Group 3... The generator has a 15amp breaker over its output. Whatever outlet you are plugging the reel into also has a breaker. The real limiting factor is the load on the circuit you are plugging the system into - hence the volt meters. A fire hazard? 12awg THHN wire, crimped ring terminals, solder joints with heatshrink and built into a 1/8" aluminum enclosure?! Psshh... At least subscribe if you're going to insult my beautiful work.
@billylaguardia I meant no insult, and I apologize for being so direct. Your construction is beautiful, and I highly doubt that would be the fire hazard. My comment of fire hazard refers to the supply cable potentially getting a heavier load than it is designed for, but the plug would definitely get hot in my scenario. There are so many inexperienced users out there, that will always take things to the extreme.
@@charlesfisher6620 Indeed. 12AWG@125ft is not 15A anymore. (just watch the voltage sag) Putting 20A plugs on a 15A panel is just BEGGING people to misuse the thing. I have seen too many "lesser" extension cords melt without even reaching their on-paper rating. Given the _intended_ use case, I doubt any of this will ever be a problem, but the "code violations" are there. (paying $$$$ for something that isn't inspected or certified by any respected org... not wise.)
Nice Idea with that switch. Had you concidered having an idividual switch for each bank? That way you could use 30 Amps(one bank on the Generator, one on Landpower)?
I designed the concept to be generic enough that the front panel design can basically stay the same with the back box changing for different inputs. Obviously 15 outlets sharing 15 amps is not going to work for heavy use settings. Though, NEC's rule of thumb code for residential applications is 1 amp per standard duplex outlet. As I mentioned in the video, this is a very specific design for athletic applications. These users are basically plugging in their phones, a few LED lights and various low draw items. Its more about the amount of plugs available vs amps required. With that being said...I build everything per order. I'll build it however ya want!
Nice rack
It's $$$$ because it's in a roadie case. People who buy this stuff do not care about the cost. (those who are forced to use it will forever whine about it constantly breaking and having to fix it.) Now, with a Honda generator in there, it'd be a steal at $6300. 🙂
(What? No $60 GFCI outlets? Not that I bother with GFCI in any of my portable crap - and it literally lays in puddles in parking lots.)
@@jfbeam well. Since you asked. Here are the basic breakdowns on the system:
1. The integrated panel is $1500. Which all things considered, I believe is fairly priced. The USB outlets are expensive. As an example, I buy the A&C combo outlets for $27ea. The dual C outlets are much more at around $50ea. If this was loaded with 15 - $8 duplex outlets, obviously the cost would be less. Also, no PCB’s here. That panel was hand wired point to point.
2. The generator costs $500. No law on using ours. You can use your own or delete the option.
3. The cable reel is another custom build. That’s a HD powder coated steel reel with an internal electrified slip ring so it’s always live. Not exactly an off the shelf part.
4. The case. Again, custom designed for this specific system. I don’t go out of my way to make LM stuff expensive. Our products are very custom and take a long time to design and build. We never get to recoup the engineering costs by amortizing them over volume sales since most projects are one off custom builds. So you pay for the engineering time which is again…not cheap.
The system solves a very specific problem. Could you do this cheaper? Absolutely. However time is money. This system is ready to go in under a minute and packs up just as quick. All the components are built to survive being loaded in a truck and bounced around. Hope this helps anyone asking the big “why” question in terms of costs. -b
@@billylaguardia (for the record, _I didn't ask_ ) "Engineering"? Please. As I said, you get to sell these for thousands because the people buying them will pay it. There's nothing wrong with that, but saying it's worth it to people who aren't your customers... In the time it took you to dream this up, I can literally walk to Walmart and get a box of power strips, various usb charging towers, and an extension cord. Though I'd have to go to Harbour Freight to get a longer, higher gauge cord. Or drive across town to be ripped off by Camping World for a cord reel. (they do indeed exist ON STORE SHELVES) Also, those receptacles are not "designed" to bounce around in a truck - they're designed to be screwed into a box in a wall _that does not move._ (also not meant for outdoor use) (just one of the many "code violations", but neither you nor the customer cares.)
Thou shalt not solder AC mains wires
You know this is a portable panel that gets bounced around in a truck right? Its also 15 amps.... So what's worse....a disconnect coming undone or a solder joint? Seems like the solder joint is the safer option between the proverbial rock and hard place NEC code violation.
You don't solder solid core. But stranded is often used and soldered in enclosed devices.
@@GrizzLeeAdams its braided THHN in this system