Converting abandoned shopping malls | What are our options?
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- Опубліковано 6 сер 2024
- Shopping malls grew massively popular in the 1950s when families started moving to the suburbs and didn’t want to travel downtown to individual stores. The unique concept of a weather-conditioned building that contained shopping, food and entertainment for the whole family took off and malls were soon built across the states. This boom continued until the 90s, peaking with the construction of the Mall of America in 1992.
Link to my Patreon page: / belinda_carr
Chapters
0:00 Introduction
1:17 Redesign proposals
2:59 Psychology of mall design
4:09 Minimal changes
4:58 The Arcade Micro-lofts
5:54 Issues with mall layouts
7:23 Complete demolition
9:18 Hybrid conversion
10:58 Conclusion
During the 90s and 2000s, online shopping steadily grew more popular and retail stores didn’t adapt to the changing market. The supply of malls outgrew demand leading to many abandoned buildings across the States. This creates both an opportunity and a problem for designers, investors and cities. Many designers propose turning all these abandoned malls into housing for the homeless or low-income individuals. Others want to reinvent the retail centers, create transparency and permeability by breaking up big boxes, bringing the outside in, and opening up visual connections to the street.
There are 3 things we can do with them. MINIMAL CHANGES
The Arcade in downtown Providence, Rhode Island, which was built in 1828, is considered the nation’s oldest indoor shopping mall. Its neo-Greek Revival architecture landed it on the list of National Historic Landmarks. In 2013, it was converted into a mixed use space with micro-lofts, boutiques and coffee shops. This conversion interests me for several reasons. First, the original building design had exterior windows so you have two sources of light entering the units, one from the atrium and another lighting the back of the unit. Also, since it was built so long ago, the scale of the space can work with micro lofts. Finally, the decision to convert it into micro-lofts is very smart. A property like this one in a downtown area is very expensive. You need to fit as many units as possible to get a higher ROI or return on investment.
On the other hand, the layout of a typical suburban mall is so unique, it’s difficult to convert it. The spaces are usually deep and sunlight from a central atrium won’t get very far. Even if skylights are installed on the roof, you have to deal with a lack of sunlight on the lower level.
COMPLETELY DEMOLISHED
Cinderella City Mall in Englewood, Colorado
Euclid Square Mall in Ohio
Valley View Center in Dallas
The Carpenter’s Shelter in Alexandria
It's painful to watch a structurally sound building be demolished when it could house the homeless and low-income families and it seems wasteful but these aren’t publicly owned structures. Also, families in surrounding areas will object to low-income housing since it could bring down property values. The programmatic layout of a mall is very different than that of a home or an apartment. It is expensive to retrofit malls, redo the plumbing and air conditioning and turn them into livable units. After going through cost analysis scenarios, developers often realize that they’d save time and money demolishing the structure and erecting a new one.
HYBRID CONVERSION
The Mayfield Mall in Mountain view, California
100 Oaks mall in Nashville
Collin Creek mall in Plano, North Dallas. The main atrium space will remain as a mall, but the big box stores that acted as anchors will be demolished. In their place, two 6 storey residential towers will be constructed with underground parking. The parking lot will be torn up and converted into rowhomes, a senior living facility, hotel, park.
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SOURCES:
• Coming Soon: The Starc... - stranger things
• The Mall of America - ... WCCO 4 News
• Deserted shopping mall... James Dunleavy
• Apollo 13 (1995) - Squ... Apollo 13
• Leslie Knope has no ti... Parks and Rec
blog.x.company/from-mall-to-m...
www.gensler.com/research-insi...
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#shoppingmalls #abandoned #mallconversion #architecture #construction #design - Наука та технологія
Burlington VT converted an old mall into a high school. Looks like a great option. High schools are also time traps with little need for outdoor light haha
That would make for a really nice high school, actually. Although, passing time might need to be extended beyond 5 minutes to get from one end to the other.
Community Colleges seem to be popular options as well.
@@SadisticSenpai61 meanwhile passing time is 2 minutes for me
@@raydai9541 😮
Honestly they would also make great home conversions with local shop facilities...and even have a nursery for working families.
@@SadisticSenpai61 There's one such near me; it's far better than leasing space which was the previous model.
I wonder how cost-efficient scholastic use generally is, when compared to alternatives. I know many schools were on the "worst" lots possible, but that in some cases the land value soared to the point that even waste sites were more valuable.
Converting malls into apartments initially may seem like a good and sustainable idea but you usually have to replace or change every part of the building including the structure so often tearing it down and rebuilding with efficient floorplan makes sense from a cost and sustainability perspective.
Mall land is a good place for housing, but the building itself is mostly useless unless you want to make a building with a supermarket. Even in a scenario that you do want some shopping for residents, that's no more than 30% of the mall. You're not using the whole mall for shops for residents of this building and surrounding areas, unless this building's doubling the population of the surrounds- which it probably isn't!
Make malls into hostels
In my town, the small mall downtown was converted into an old folk’s elderly home with accessibility & health centers in the lobby.
Damn that's a good idea, make their dr appointments close by and easily accessible.
@Bruja Cat, if you are where I think you're referencing, are you in the upper Midwest?
This video made me laugh. I saw some of these pitfalls in my thesis project. I proposed a hybrid model that used the oversized parking lot for mixed use housing and urban farming. The rear service area and parking of the mall was next to a river. This became a food forest and bike trail. The interior of the mall was repurposed for a food related business incubator, culinary school, food hall, and a maker space. It was like Disneyland for food.
The presentation devolved into a contentious debate. A Dean and a combative mall architect gave me hell. One didn’t want to accept that malls were dying. Most agreed with the problem statement, but they wanted to see a bigger architectural statement as a solution. I thankfully survived the experience and graduated.
I want to learn more!
Do you have the papers listed somewhere?
Ya that sounds really cool! I think that would be a great solution!
That’s sad, people care more about lucrative capitalism than FEEDING PEOPLE
@@bruja_cat you act as if people don’t have other ways of getting food?
@@BlackWolf207 It grows on trees! /s
"reenforced engineers' perception that architects and designers are disconnected from reality." 😂❤️😂❤️ Love it.
Well, it is true. But engineers are also disconnected from the importance of ambiance and social interactions of buildings. And that's perfectly fine. Every field has their expertise, and no single field has all the knowledge required. It's in cooperation where we can get the best results.
@@Xiph1980 Totally agree. It always annoys me when people try to oversimplify or diminish the roll and importance of a particular field or area of expertise...because it's not THEIR area of focus. Of course, it requires a cooperative effort between various experts to achieve the best outcomes.
My mom took a university Design course and the impression that my mom and I both shared of it was that the majority of what it was teaching was bullshit.
it was teaching people how to be hired by corporations to consult on something, and then have the corporation just do what it wanted as if their advice barely existed.
“… Where are you biking to?… ” Love that comment!
In western Washington state, there are actually great nature trails that run alongside state highways and they're getting expanded to be safely accessible to pedestrians, bicyclists and people on wheelchairs and mobility scooters. So in the PNW, not a bad idea except we need the constructed awnings with solar panels that recharge electric vehicles as bicyclists ride alongside the highways like they do in northern Europe.
@@inaruboricua they will stop being NATURE trail with all that disability infrastructure, especially mobility scooters
@@512TheWolf512 Seriously? You compare a no-nature environment of nothing but buildings and concrete to a nature path that's paved for the disabled and call them the same? You are weird and when you are no longer able to walk, you'll remember what an ass you once were.
@@inaruboricua you just extrapolate something i never meant from something i said. and, unlike with walking troubles, there's no cure for stuppidity, so, i feel sorry for you.
@@512TheWolf512 If eating your own words tastes like poop, maybe you should examine your own words, estupida: "they will stop being NATURE trail with all that disability infrastructure, especially mobility scooters"
You nailed how engineers think about architecture.
One word sums it up. Why
It just making an over-generalization. Only 98% of architects are like that.
@@enja001 well I once had an architect tell us that he wanted the exhaust stack of a power plant to look like a Saguaro Catcus. He had drawings and everything but a structural design, that was for us to figure out. Architects some times miss the Function/Form where engineers are always function /form, except Apple and Tesla.
It wasn't always like that. There was a time when even big names like FLW and Philip Johnson were structures guys, at least at the high level. I suppose part of it is simply over-specialization. Architects and engineers both tend to draw sharp lines and say "That stuff's not my problem," when they both ought to see those edges as places of cooperation and see the need to learn and apply a little of the other's knowledge.
I often wonder why some people come up with some of the dumbest ideas and then make super cool drawings of them. Two I remember was a bridge across a valley with houses on the top and wind turbines on the bottom! I was like that is the dumbest idea I have ever seen!!
The cost of building it would be huge, The wind turbines would put super high loads on the structure and produce a lot of vibration and noise The wind turbines would be difficult to work on so why? Why not just but the turbines on the ground like everywhere else.? I am just a software engineer and not a mechanical or structural and that just makes my head hurt.
The other was a planned community called Harmony, FL. I love the idea of planned communities and this was supposed to be an eco-friendly cool community except it was in the middle of nowhere Florida. Why would you want to move there? The area had no real jobs outside of a few gas stations and cattle ranches. It was more than an hour's drive on a toll road to the Disney area of Orland and a lot longer to any high-paying jobs in downtown areas. So why would anyone want to move there? How would they live? Just another retirement community? Maybe it would work today if they had super high-speed internet for work from home but even then it is in the worst area of Florida. It is super hot in summer, no ocean, no breeze, it is flat. The only good thing is it would have pretty mild winters. So why? I think they saw cheap land and it was a let's see if we can get people to buy into it.
So why do they come up with what I would call Popular Science cover art projects? Is it just for fun? A fun flight of fancy what if? Or do they know it is useless but looks pretty and gets them good PR? Or do they think that they can get funding for a study out of it? Or do they just fall in love with their own idea and are blind to the downsides?
The promenade mall in tulsa is being converted into a college. That seemed like the easiest option to make use of the space
Excellent. Because colleges don’t seem to care for windows anyway
And Eastland mall has become a business center with a DMV.
The problem is there is going to be a huge enrollment crash due to demographics and changing perceptions of education. People are waking up to that 100k+ college debt that pays a couple bucks more than a guy with a GED willing to get his hands dirty isn't sustainable.
@@joseph1150 absolutely. I wish they would make it a trade school instead
If we must have government, put government in these malls. And auction off their existing more valuable properties.
I love this woman. She just calls out peoples bullshit ideas!
She’s well informed not a cynic. She’s just answering our questions.
I think an abandoned mall would be perfect for an old folks home, senior center, community. You could take the big chain store space and make those over into apartments, keep the beauty salons, book stores, restaurants, and a few clothing store, and turn the rest into classrooms for activities, and doctors and dentist offices. Parking lots could be used for creating gardens, and outdoor recreation activities. Yes, there would need to be retrofits done, but I think the residents would like to have things handy, and their children would feel they are safe. The hallways would be used for walking (duh), you already have escalators and elevators, and they are convenient to get to.
I've imagined exactly the same thing.
The problem with making apartments out of big box stores is that people need windows in their homes
Not a bad idea. There are apartments and old folks homes that are basically mini shopping centers on the bottom, plus the essentials.
Have you heard of a couple of projects in England where a old folks home specialising with dementia has built a 1950's/60's high Street in the grounds of the home, with shops staffed by the care home workers, or specialist stores (hairdresser) have a outside worker come I'm for the day and use the shopfront. It's worked really well, and these malls might just be able to become the US equivalent 🤔
@@Ariel-ps8je Yes, access to windows for egress, light and ventilation is required by code. There are different strategies to address this. A good book on mall retrofits is the “Sprawl Repair Manual”
I burst out laughing when you read out the proposal for connecting paths for foot and bike traffic. Whoever proposed that is completely disconnected from reality. In the US, malls we're usually built in the middle of nowhere because everything is car-centric. So those walkways would probably have to be 5 kilometers long to get there from the city center. And in Europe, most malls are already integrated in a mostly walkable city center so there's really no need for walkways (though limiting car traffic would be really appealing). It's one of those proposal that really great until you spend 10 seconds thinking about them.
You should start to develop pretty serious doubts by about the 7'th second of pondering it.
This is actually surprising to me because in my city, the main, emptiest, oldest mall is about halfway down our biggest street. I don't bike, but I can hardly drive anywhere without passing it. The other mall nearby is right in the heart of the city, where there are more tall buildings than parking spots. It would be right along the path from many people's apartments to a big park, and in fact, people often cut through it on foot.
I think the bike path comments come from people in areas like mine, who have never heard of driving AWAY from everything to get to a mall.
Oh no, a 5km long bike ride! The horror!
@@camillelemmens1745 Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about a 5km bike ride. That's perfectly fine, as long as there's decent bike infrastructure. But for foot traffic, 5km is just too much, especially if people have to carry home what they just bought. They would benefit a lot more from decent public transportation. For bikes, a decent and safe bike lane along existing roads would make a lot more sense economically than a fancy walkway that may look nice but would also eat up tons of money.
@@GuenniKurti True, it needs to be part of a more holistic view of the surroundings. But I am also convinced that one has to start somewhere. Saying things like "where would we bike to", means nothing ever changes. The first safe bike lane or pleasant walkway will always be alone at first, but might mean that the next time someone says "let's put in a bike lane", there is actually somewhere to cycle to. And cycling is so much more pleasant away from car traffic than right next to it...
I really appreciate the focus on practicality. So many people approach this sort of thing as if resources and local sway were unlimited. Also: Damn, I used to go to the Collin Creek Mall all the time as a kid. Cool to see it's getting some new life!
I wonder, know 'Josh Strive Hayes'?
@@loturzelrestaurant Can't say I have
@@Twisted_Logic Oh, my condolescene. I hope you can overcome this...
(XD)
I learned how to drive at the old Sears that was there 😭
I wonder what the economics are of just turning them into warehouses. Almost all the lower deck stores have loading docks. There are a huge number of new companies that need ' mall store' sized warehouses and then just do the upper floors as office spaces.
Might work. But there is a lot of strategic value in choosing a warehouse at the right location depending on how your companies supply lines/network looks like.
So depending on the mall, and where it happens to be located, it might or might not be a good option for certain companies.
I thought the same.
People are constantly trying to justify some weird scheme to " house the homeless." Just build regular low-cost housing and fund more social services for those with issues. Build the weird stuff for yuppies or hipsters or whatever is next with too much money if you want but don't blame not wanting to pay for a known fix on wanting to have something exotic.
but housing non-rich people is bad ROI ...
@@dwc1964 which is why "we should run government like a business" is a terrible philosophy.
But one of the big challenges in residential construction is acquiring the land. They say that construction is cheap compared to the cost of land. Abandoned malls have a pretty large footprint which means they'd be good for regular low cost housing.
@@freelanceminion7396 but the idea that government should own housing so that non-rich people can have somewhere to live has been abandoned in the USA long ago
@@dwc1964 You're both morons. Government is exactly what's preventing low-income housing via zoning laws, NIMBYs, and environmental regulations. If businesses were allowed to build high density housing and more houses in general, housing costs would be far cheaper.
Your videos are addictive, in a good way! Thanks for all of your hard work. Cheers.
Thank you!
@@BelindaCarr new sub here, was in my recommendations, straight to the point and not a lot of useless personality fluff. Thanks you are Refreshing..
I’d never thought I’d enjoy a post about mall conversations 🤣. Belinda you are awesome. I love your informative perspective
The John Malkovich clip earned my like :)
John Malkovich is such a great actor.
Most info videos I see have about 5 minutes wort of content spread out over a15 minute video.
The Belinda Carr videos have about 15 minutes presented in about 10 minutes.
I love them, no chance of getting bored here.
Keep up the good work and thank you Belinda.
Joe in the Great White North
Thank you!
I love how realistic you are without being pessimistic!
The local mall by me sat for years in disrepair. We had one developer that completely gutted it and tried for a year to get new stores into it and failed. Finally it has been repurposed as an industrial building housing rentable office spaces, a semi trailer production company and a shrimp farm.
I had no idea shrimp farms were a thing.
@@GRANOLA77 where do you think most of the shrimp comes from? xD
@@TerranTaro
I assumed the ocean haha although I do know there were fish farms
what a great video!
I like how you're challenging the stereotype of architects, and including economics and engineering you explanations. I would be interested in seing a video about the homogeneity of modern apartment complexes, and why they look like they do
In Austin TX there was a the "Hyland Mall" which was converted into a community campus college
I walked through an expansion of a university, my first thought was it just like a mall, cheaper to buy a mall convert to a school.. simple
*Highland
I came here to say exactly this. Except I would have spelled "Highland" properly.
@@GrantSR Wild, cause I would have spelt it inproperly
I like the idea
"OK. Let's cut through all the fluff."
It's what you do best. Thank you!!
I just think it’s so awesome to have insight from someone who has had to take into account these things and had a hand in crafting the outcome on such a big project
That zombie mall experience is so cool. They could divide the mall into sections and have campaigns like getting food, finding battery or other rations. And charge $20/person/campaign. Pretty cool
I use to dream about turning an abondoned mall into an airsoft zombie arena. I vant believe its a real thing! Thats awesome!
I doubt it would make enough money to be a long-term solution to pay the property tax and fix the roof, but it is a good stop-gap while they think of more ideas.
@Tamiasciurus Yeah I assume that will disappear the day they come up with a real plan for the property.
Until then might as well have SOME revenue.
A speaker will tell who will be survivors there will only be 6 survivors the rest will be zombies you have 3 minutes to prepare?
I have been binging your videos all morning 😂 They are fascinating. A lot of options that get the most press seem to be gimmicky rather than the best solutions. Thank you for your awesome videos!
I loved that Malkovitch scene, because that's exactly what I was thinking when I saw that ridiculous picture.
I work in CRE. You got a lot right but I'm kind of surprised you didn't bring up medical. Hospitals prefer horizontal layouts as they try to avoid using elevators whenever possible (imagine transporting a patient in critical condition in an elevator and having the elevator fail). Their preferred program is a central trauma center and ICU with surgery theaters, patient rooms, labs, doctor's offices, and administrator offices on the perimeter. In terms of the raw structure of the building and the parking lot, little work would need to be done. It would be mostly a matter of running plumbing and electrical.
ceiling heights in malls are usually 4-6 metres. Hospitals around 3m
Would be extremely difficult to install and support suspended medical gas supply columns on the concrete since retail shops has fairly high ceiling
Yeah that’s not viable at all. Say goodbye to suction, O2 and the like in every hospital room. Also, elevators are routinely used in hospitals. I work in the ER and people regularly get admitted to the icu, which requires an elevator trip. Old building and never had it fail but it’s sort of an unspoken bad omen lol
Hey, that’s a great idea! It’s bad enough that I used to be able to see one doc for virtually all of my health concerns and now need to see a different provider for every single aspect of it (definitely not to my advantage) which is made much more difficult because these specialists are NEVER in the same building as my doc, but usually quite far away, necessitating a separate trip, often at a later date. If I’m sick and need treatment quickly, I don’t want to schedule multiple trips to multiple providers over several days… Capitalism prides itself on efficiency- but that efficiency rarely translates to “better for consumers,” regardless of how adamant they are that it does.
@@codacreator6162 Because specialists are independent practices. It sure would be great to have all your docs in the same place but tbh, doctors hate hospitals. Hospital admins are the worst people to work with. They treat doctors and nurses like Bezos treats Amazon workers. If there is ever a chance for a doctor to not be at a hospital, you bet your ass they won't be.
I really enjoy this channel. It really helps me see things from a different point of view. Everyone says "mixed use" so much for malls it just seems the default choice.
Your videos are seriously the perfect mix of professional and entertaining! Great work!
Our mall was bought by a chain tech College. They were able to keep the food court and the transition from stores to classrooms seemed pretty easy. Best option imo
I just watch 2 of your videos on shipping container homes and enjoyed them. I love your logic and point of view. Thank you for creating these videos and for all your work.
They tore down the abandoned mall near my house and are constructing a high rise downtown area.. in the middle of the suburbs.
Shoutout to the old Westminster Mall!
Lol, the "what the F" was so perfectly timed
Like another commenter said, urban farms could be put in the space, and help supply communities with winter crops. But I think they could be turned into indoor ice rinks/pools/other athletic facilities.
@N Fels look it's just an idea. I'm no expert. I'm also not someone to get mad at because I have zero authority
Still like the mixed purpose. Have the lower levels as retail, entertainment, restaurants, and office space. Maybe have one or two anchor stores as a hotel or grocery store. So many possibilities.
Library, school/daycare, college, doctor/clinic/rehab mall, office mall, or government mall with courthouse and DMV. The last one especially is needed in many small towns that turned into big cities and need to upgrade their governmental infrastructure. Except for grade schools, the rest can even keep the food court open to the public.
I didn't say "Paint the mall". I said "Paint them all", meaning the food plaza tables. We were talking about the tables.
With the joke out of the way, I've always thought malls had the perfect infrastructure to be converted into educational institutions.
I really like when I find a channel that's someone who clearly knows what they're talking about.
My community college bought our dying mall and converted it into their new campus. It's gorgeous and fit tons of classrooms, offices, a large computer room, library, and more.
Interesting, that seems like a very effective use of that type of space. When you'll already need a lot of large spaces like lecture halls, libraries, probably a food court, and lots of room for students to walk from place to place, a former mall seems promising for that. I wonder how much renovation they had to do to make it work.
There's also the problem of "dead load" - shopping and retail spaces have very different dead loads than housing. Housing has a much higher dead load, so structures built for office or retail space might not meet the required specifications for turning it into housing - even micro-lofts (possibly even especially micro-lofts as then you're packing even more heavy appliances into that space).
The microlofts she showcased have miniature appliances - hot plates not stoves, dorm-size refrigerators, no dishwashers, furniture including bed are small as possible by necessity. Laundry machines are centralized for use by all.
If you use them as housing it will soon start to feel like living on a prison wing.
Ah, basically a college...
Just needs a panopticon
Prison wing, exactly. That’s how it felt to WORK at a mall.
Belinda you are a Wonderful presenter. I love how you walk us through a topic so that we understand the many aspects in a way that we can use our own minds to evaluate what you are saying. You are Top Notch and your family must be very, very proud of you.
This is a great video!
Randhurst Mall in Mount Prospect, IL USA was a bustling shopping center in Chicago's northwest suburbs throughout the 90s. After decline in the early 2000s with major anchors either going out of business or moving their locations, Randhurst could never really fill that anchor space successfully. In 2009 the mall was partially torn down and converted to outdoor shopping and a hotel now known as Randhurst Village.
I'd like to see malls make way for parks or new affordable housing. Old malls should rent out the shops to small businesses of all sorts, and encourage retail based on local tastes and expertise access. We don't do really big ideas, long term ideas.
I've always thought that converting the anchor stores into apartments (or replacing them with appartments) and using the rest of the structure as a sort of connector between them would be a good idea. Indoor gardens, restaurants/cafés, gyms, basketball courts, yoga studios, health clinics/doctors, childcare/preschool, VR/AR gaming, etc. could fill the interiors. Basically create a mini-city. Outside, bus stations and other mass transit options could integrate the unused parking area as a transportation hub/park-n-ride. Charging stations in the parking lots...maybe even drone launch/delivery hubs on top of the buildings. I've always seen such potential in them.
We had the Blue Hen mall (Delaware) that was constructed/opened in 1968, and was our mall for a time...I still remember it as a kid, with shops lining 2 stories and even a mini-golf. When 13 was complete and shot straight up through Dover, completely missing BH, Dover Mall was also in the works and was opened around 1982, it was a double blow.....Blue Hen was getting less populated, it was a sad state to see near the end. The last thing we did was throw a coin in the water fountain, and then it was gone. They converted the entire space, eventually, into a corporate center with different offices....the parking lot still looks like it hasn't been maintained in years. Dover Mall doesn't even have a water fountain, feels very "clean" and "give me your money" type feel, rather than the wonder I remember of BH. Yes, it was smaller, and maybe it was my childhood excitement, but it felt more alive.
The only reason I even go to the mall now is for AA pretzels....and maybe when my gf goes to VS, but that's it. The future is looking more and more metal and hardened, children are spending more time with phones and games than interacting with each other in person, and business is catering to it, adapting to that new outlook. I used to love going grocery shopping, and now I can't even find half of the stuff on my list because pickers already snatched it all up. I could go on, but I think I've spoken enough in my old-man delirium of nostalgia.
As a resident of Richardson, TX, I live only a few miles from the old Collin Creek Mall. We have been thrilled with the imaginative use of the space that is being done there. You are correct when stating that these old structures can easily turn a once thriving community into a scary, crime ridden area. The ongoing renovations here should not only allow us to avoid that outcome, but help to improve our property value. I think some of the worst abandoned spaces these days tend to be big box stores such as Walmart, Sams or an old Home Depot. Hopefully, people with vision, such as yourself, will continue to rise to the challenge and create something useful & beautiful.
Always going forward on this channel!
Lots of old malls have leaky roofs. The quality of construction isn’t always that high. I expect that most won’t be worth re-using.
Oh, no! Whatever shall we do? We can't possibly repurpose this mall because patching a leak is clearly beyond our current technological capability! Please tell us: when your roof develops a leak do you just pack up and move to a new house?
New roof for a mall will be like 900k to 8 million, depending on who the bid goes to, if it was designed stupid or just really big you'll run into some money problems unless you're bezos.
@@morganhazel2373 Materiality matters. How much is the land worth? Context matters. How much, if any, of the existing roof will the project actually need? Sweeping generalizations like the OP's aren't helpful.
@@colormedubious4747 even the most base level is so broad, even in one set building. There's so many variables for maintenance of just one part of a building, let alone everything else. You got walls, floors, electricity, HVAC, possibly moldy ductwork from inactivity, plumbing, every window and door could add some costs for repairs or maintenance. I think its best to just put 1% of cost to 180% of cost just for total repairs. It could easily become a blue tarp on the roof and back on the market in 2 weeks.
It’s useful to people living in tents
This was fascinating. You are very talented. Thank you for the time and effort you put into this.
I've just started watching your videos and I find them very Interesting! I like how you take a grounded and realistic approach to issues like these.
I live right by collin creek mall. Glad to know that its going to good use. I used to love going there.
I have never heard of that zombie mall experience, so thank you for bringing that to my attention :D
Too bad I don't live in the UK.
I do, and never heard of it either!
I really appreciate all of the research you have done. Excellent!!!
Great video Belinda! Thank you for sharing... All the best :)
You are pointing out things that almost all media misses or are purposely misunderstanding. The biggest ones being 1. you can't tell private owners what to do and 2. the vast majority of people, esp homeowners, don't want to live anywhere near NIMBY areas like homeless shelters. It is what it is. Too bad wishful thinking is more popular than anything these days.
As we move forward as a society, people are going to have to give up their knee jerk reactions about everything they don't want to live next to. We need to stop whining and accept that there are social needs.
@@ScooterinAB true
@@ScooterinAB As with all issues, whenever you say “People need to X”, the response will be “You first”. Plenty of people will say “just get over it” until its their turn and they realize there are very real issues that caused these biases to begin with.
@@AwesomeSihv Yes. I'm not an anti-social dirtbag. I do things to try and help society instead of fearfully clinging to my perceived power and needs.
@@ScooterinAB You would love to live near a high crime area I suppose.
I hate apartments but that does seem to be the future, density.
Funny but I was thinking the opposite. With all the work from home going on urban areas may start seeing a population decrease. Many people can work anywhere if they have high-speed internet and that is going to get more and more common. On line, shopping means less need for things like malls and shops. I almost see a move to more of a rural lifestyle. Most of the problems with sprawl had to do with cars. People commuting to work, to shop, to entertainment. The real issue will be access to high-speed internet. It will produce communities of have and have nots. If Starlink works out you may also see people adopting a more nomadic lifestyle. They will just move to where they want to be for now..
@@DavidSiebert
Thanks for the follow up.
I do see your point. That internet connection does seem to be a major factor for what the future will be like. As far as the sprawl, all I see around me is higher buildings and crazy density with zero thought for how it will effect the quality life and infrastructure. If what you are saying works out, they are just building the ghettos of tomorrow.
@@DavidSiebert low density subarbs are a massive waste of land, I hope they just go with larger apartments.
@@DavidSiebert sprawling suburbs are not only a problem because of cars : they are expensive as hell to maintain. With lower density of settlements, infrastructures people tend to take as granted like sewers, running water, electricity lines, roads, communications lines have to be built over far larger distances. The internet won't bring you all that by itself.
That being said, towering building have their limits too : economies of scale stall or even worsen beyond five to ten floors, as water pumps, active ventilation systems, more elevators, inbuilt fire management systems, and other stuff have to be installed and maintained.
I've watched a few of the channels videos and I have enjoyed the breakdown of each subject I have watched. Thank you for this look into mall reuse!
I remember when our Mall was being built and I was there the day it opened if I close my eyes I can still get a sense of the look feel and smell everything about it. As soon as I was old enough I got a job at my favorite store and stayed all the way through high-school. It's changed a lot but I still call it my mother ship, I've always wanted to live in the mall with the microlofts.
I saw a video about The Arcade and I thought I can live there. It was a nice convert.
Your a beautifully intelligent lady,💕
Really enjoy your straight to the point perspective. Great content!
Hello, I'm a young woman interested in carpentry specifically, but architecture is adjacent! I just recently started watching your videos. I think i am starting to really admire u!!! I love seeing your interest and passion for the subjects of your interesting videos! Thank you, this one i liked it especially!
I just want to say how refreshing it is to listen to you talk because you don’t use “uh” every few minutes. If you pause for a moment, and you rarely do, you don’t fill the gap with a useless, annoying sound like nearly everyone else does. It’s become a pet peeve and I just want to thank you for not doing it. You’re an excellent speaker.
Came here to say how well spoken she is, as well. Her information comes across so smoothly. I strive to reach this level of clarity one day.
Hello there.
This reminds me of a character's home in a dystopian novel.
I say let’s convert all abandoned malls to this use then. Excellent meeting, OceanA.
I'm glad I found you. I'm just getting started, but I like your topic choices and your direct approach style. It's unusual that channel hosts are without sarcasm, uniformed opinion or simply grandstanding for their own celebrity. You appear to have the right touch. I'm looking forward to hearing more.
You have excellent subtle humor... "WHERE ARE YOU BIKING TO?" LOLOLOLOLOL
I'm a graphic designer, I work with some wide eyed unrealistically optimistic engineers. most of them are newly graduated or still studying. the amount of time I spend face palming at their "ideas" is too much. you give me hope and remind me there's still logical realistic people out there. great videos too. you earned yourself a sub! thx for the vids.
They should turn them all into urban farms, perfectly designed for that!
1. Not a joke, i work in research and we have farm animals housed indoors, also chicken farming today is indoors only, also marihuana and many spices are indoor only
2. How about turning shopping malls into hi tech assembly facilities- factories, (are we afraid of working, is this country really think to keep giving money for free)
@@stickom convert them ALL into hydroponic marajuana farms!
i dont think you understood the video then, The urban malls are normally more attractive for investors and will be renovated/demolished. The problem lies in the suburban malls where vertical farming doesnt really have a point
Cheaper to transport food from cheap land areas than use costly urban land.
She said they have minimal windows, so plants aren't really going to thrive well there
Edit: do hydroponic plants not require sun?
Your videos are informing me on topics which I was pondering. Thank you!
Fantastic channel. Really enjoy the topics, the context and the bit of humor you bring. Mad skills at the computer too.
Cheers.
Would light tubes meet the need to bring light in deep into the structure. Less roof penetration
It would make one heck of a mansion. I'd park my cars in the main entrance.
"ok, so let's cut through all the fluff" - that line was brilliant! :)
Many great points you brought up. Lots to think about. I like the idea of part tear down and part rebuild. Many uses depending on location.
I'd be interested in your thoughts on the renovations of North Gate Mall in Seattle WA. They added a major trasit center, tore out the center and added a outdoor hockey ring and made some other changes that fit in with the neighboring housing.
Same. Northgate mall was apparently the USA's first enclosed mall. The two ends and their outdoor shops still remain (well, those that are still open..) and the interiors of the two end pieces are closed until their open walls are remedied. The sad thing is that the light rail just opened on the Second of October here, and their is almost nothing left.
@@NoirpoolSea IDK... I could always see the outer walls and where the joinings occurred and I thought it wasn't particularly well done.
I can't wait to get back to Seattle and see what's happened. Should be back by the time light rail reaches Alderwood
West Edmonton Mall (1980s) was the inspiration for Mall of America
It was developed by the same company, though the MoA was smaller.
@@wclark3196 For me walking through it was like watching your grandma buying a bra. strange to have 7 same alda shoe stores wtf
Please keep up the good work. Your videos are always informative and well produced.
I love your videos. Keep up the good work. Such great content and editing.
Where I live the planning authority has deemed that every new apartment block must have retail facilities and this makes it more attractive for residents as well building a sense of community. There is one that has three levels of retail, including cinemas and then residential above in the middle of the city close to a transport hub. The designers won worldwide awards and it is much admired.
That will go the way of shopping malls in 20 years.
@@paintedpony2935 Not in the heart of Sydney, Australia.
Want to challenge one of the unstated assumptions of your video... What if lowering house values is fine? Inflated house prices are a major factor in homelessness(look at New Zealand or Hawaii), and all low income housing lowers property value somewhere, so if you're actually committed to solving the problem(which many politicians or architects are not, even if they can be well meaning) then you have to bite the bullet.
Also, NIMBYism is not about 'crime', it's about the perception of crime or visible reminders of poverty. When states give homeless people one-way bus tickets to *literally anywhere else* that doesn't reduce crime, neither does keeping 'those kinds of people' out of suburbs. Poverty on the other hand does cause crime.
At some point you have to make the decision to stop centering the feelings and assets of an aging middle class or the economics that support them and start addressing causes of the problems.
💯
That’s a great idea! You buy a house for $1M, and then sell it to me for $250K. Call me when you’re ready!
@@craiggraham9061 How about a system where your wellbeing, lifesavings, access to a middle class lifestyle, aren't all connected to owning property? Which as I've stated is something that less and less people are actually able to do when you have this constant demand that property prices just go up and up!
@@Alex-nl5cy That's a really interesting comment. When my wife and I married in the 70s inflation in property prices was rampant in the UK. So much so that you saved and saved to try to get on the property ladder as soon as possible. Now people just want to drag property prices down until they can afford them without saving. Go figure.
Wow! I'm impressed by your presentation of the information and the knowledge you display. Excellent video - I have learned a lot from you tonight.
Your articulation in discussing various matters related to your profession is very refreshing and highly informative. Thank you!
Assisted living or nursing homes for seniors.
There are no windows.
@@IsomerMashups still wouldn't be the worst nursing homes.
"OK let's cut through ALL THE FLUFF" Belinda you're needed on the UN council!
Good channel. High quality content. Thank you for your hard work 👏🏻👍🏻🙏🏻
Thank you for making me think , and giving me new perspectives on many interesting topics. :)
I find it absurd and hilarious just how many different buildings you were able to fit inside of a single mall parking lot
You find productive accommodating and accessible creativity absurd. And what do you consider blocks of empty environment-crushing concrete parking lots?
@@inaruboricua I think he's in agreement with you
@@inaruboricua bruh...
@@inaruboricua What I find absurd is how massive parking lots are, and how the space they occupy can be used for so much better stuff... Please check your condescension at the door, or at least save it for your opponents.
Before I even watch the video I will blurt out "HOUSING FOR THE HOMELESS!" Because ya know, that is the standard answer to every building question! Right? ;) :)
ONE MINUTE IN! LOL!
Excellent use of John Malkovitch. I live in Reading, UK and sadly only heard about the Zombie experience just before it closed, what a superb idea!
I didn't really have any prior interest in construction products or building techniques, but I've been binge watching your channel just to be soothed and relaxed by your ability to clearly and concisely explain something. Thank you!
A bunch of small workshops would fit nicely inside a mall, there is space to store raw materials and finished goods, unfortunately, small businesses are not capable of buying this kind of places
I like that. There's this thing in Japan where people run mini-factories, and something like that could be done in dead malls. These factories do small scale and precision manufacturing that can't really be done by machine (allegedly). Something like this isn't going to replace massive factories in Asia, but it would reintroduce manufacturing capacities into urban spaces.
Related to this, I had an idea for a shared construction space. Basically, this would be a business that could offer workshop space for personal construction projects and offer up tools that any given person would never be able to buy/would only use once. These could also include 3D and traditional printing spaces or even art supplies (like art suites that are too expensive for casual users to buy). I think something like that, only on a larger scale, could also work with your idea.
All this talk about the impact of dead malls on the community and how they can be repurposed and there's very little conversation about the realities of that on the local tax base. Converting retail to residential won't be a big hit, higher property taxes offset by the elimination of the sales tax revenue. But when you're converting these large malls to schools, churches or homeless shelters, you're eliminating both sales and property tax revenue.
Another part of the conversation about tax base has to be the demands residential development puts on that tax base. Unless it's all luxury or over-55 housing, most residential developments have more costs - primarily for schooling - than any resulting increase the tax receipts. It's one of the reasons mixed-use redevelopment is desirable.
Always learning alot for you. Thank you😁
2.35 lol. Belinda I'm loving your content. It is so engaging because there is so much truth to what you are saying. Thank you for sharing your insight and knowledge with everyone.
Part of the problem in America is the demand for high ROI, regardless of the market. So, affordable housing quickly becomes a misnomer. Why pull a Jerry Maguire when you could more easily and personally profitably leverage a small fortune from the project? Duh. You want to solve the increasing disenfranchisement of lower income people, you can’t do it with for-profit investors. Period.
It’s interesting that the more we spend helping the “homeless” the more homeless we get.
lol..so true
She makes great videos, can't stop watching them!! Lot's of great points and truths!!
your channel is great thanks for making these videos i have learned a lot watching them