Bro really said Goku and Vegeta aren’t rivals when his favorite anime is a carbon copy of dbz and the Goku vegeta rivalry just in reverse (friends that became enemies)
funimation dub had him being blunt as fuck "yea I'm way above you" but here he was just out right being a smartass which burns even more and imagen how much his heart burned when he later learns that his rival's kid was leagues above both of them
At that point in the series (buu saga) vegeta hadn’t even lost to Goku. He was 2-0 against him but the second one wasn’t really a dub since Goku had ssj3, and the first one he didn’t win the battle in the end. But let’s not forget Goku needed kaioken x3 just to get a slight advantage on Vegeta that amounted to nothing, then needed kaioken x4 to win a beam clash with him and vegeta still survived getting hit with that kamehameha, then proceeded to get hit with a spirit bomb, slashed in the back, and crushed by great ape Gohan, and still survived.
@@drich008One of the biggest reason he considered Goku being 2-0 with him is because Goku always won the mental game with Vegeta. Vegeta easily overpowered him in the great Ape form but in his mind, the fact that a low class made him use his transformation and lived to tell about it was an insult. Their second battle didn’t really count because of them getting distracted with Buu revival and also Vegeta knew Goku was holding back. That was another insult to him because in his eyes, Goku looked down on him even with the situation being dire.
@@drich008 if we’re strictly talking about Dragon Ball, Z that’s a one 1-0 majin Vegeta versus Goku is a draw considered by both characters that’s not a W for Vegeta
Goku really does showcase a Healthy mindset to training and competition. Its never about dunking or breaking his opponent, just wants to make himself and in turn others better. Which is another contributing factor to his massive growth compared to Vegeta i feel
Goku was also willing to have teachers and learn from others. That helped him improve greatly. He wouldn't be the same without Roshi, Korin, Kami, Mr. Popo, Kaiosama, and even Whis now.
@@_questdbzBro was legit angry and overcome with pride due to freshly transforming into a SSJ he wanted to make Frieza suffer so it’s not like a more constant thing but he did learn from this experience but even in this moment Goku still knows wha he be doing even trying to give frieza a chance.
2:08 i just wanna point this out , Vegeta literally killed the one person in the entire universe at this point in the story that ever cared about him and vaporized him for no good reason.
Lets not act like nappa cared about vegeta if nappa was stronger he'd do the same thing but vegeta killing him is still dumb business wise since nappa could most likley be healed later cause if people near the z fighters strength just jumped vegeta with no care of survival he'd most likely die
@@FLYYADIGG24 It also doesn't make sense with Vegeta's characterization in Namek. He was willing to join forces with Krillin and Gohan when the Ginyu Force showed up.
@@kevintanza6968 Nah it makes sense. The time period where Vegeta lived his life under friezas thumb turned the saiyans into even more ruthless mercenaries that were very cut throat. To the point that Frieza's oppression essentially turned some of the saiyans against eachother to either maintain their own lives or frieza's favor. I figure Vegeta just never saw a personal connection to nappa, only seeing him as a meat headed tool. Also I think he know's both he and nappa aren't good people, and Vegeta never struggles to ice bad people.
@@FLYYADIGG24nappa was vegeta teacher and friend, it took care of vegeta as a child, in favt he was basically vegeta second father, so I don’t think nappa would ever try to kill vegeta regardless of power levels
@@FLYYADIGG24 It’s questionable whether Nappa would do the same or not. Remember Nappa was the one who first brought up bringing back Raditz with the Dragon Balls, someone he viewed as a weakling. Although he did move on from that thought pretty fast so who knows. Still a terrible look for Vegeta nonetheless.
Completely agree it not being a rivalry is literally the point of Vegetas frustration and the culmination of that is Vegetas speech when Goku is fighting Kid Buu, I feel their rivalry in super is weird and people like to act like they’ve been rivals the whole time.
I agree they aren't rivals in Z, but I don't think that made super's rivalry weird? Think about it: it's the fact that Vegeta finally acknowledges Goku as the superior, and soon after this, he shows Goku that he caught up. They hold their rivalries now for the sake of surpassing everyone around them as opposed to each other: the way that Goku was always thinking about Vegeta from the moment he met him. No one can take away from the fact that Goku acknowledges Vegeta's climbing powers seemingly following after him and occasionally, though temporarily surpassing him; it doesn't make it a rivalry, but the acknowledgment for Vegeta being a good source of seeing how to improve vs others. Once Vegeta, at the time of Super, begins to establish that same way of thinking, they are more evened out. The whole dynamic they have is that Vegeta is the aggressor who surpassed Goku, whereas Goku is the defender that can still keep up and surpass Vegeta, and this mirrors their very UI and UE forms by the end, which cements the implication of a rivalry beginning and setting ground for super itself.
@@_WiZ420 I would agree with you I’d like them to be rivals in Super but he hasn’t changed he’s still obsessed with beating Goku for some reason, I feel like a healthy development would be him pursuing his own form of strength without obsessing over Goku. He still fights to win like he claims Goku doesn’t.
@@superxcrazy1989 He's not obsessed anymore, this narrative consistently feels strange to me. I don't know how y'all focus on characters, but he merely retains a rivalry. It is just not the same; obsession is the type of shit that is repeatedly stated multiple times in every arc. It's at most a few times in one arc, and rarely otherwise. Training really can not be argued as this either
Bext example, when the manga's Moro arc paints Vegeta's goal as Kakarot and not Moro, this was both in reference to the techniques gained on Yardrat and the general growth that was received from that training. "Surpassing" Kakarot wasn't even really a thing that he had to do at that time, as they were evenly matched when you know the context of which he says that. UI wasn't on the table. If you mean to say he intends to surpass MUI Goku, then that only proves the point that Vegeta accurately gauged that Goku would be strong enough to beat Moro. It doesn't seem like that was his intention, so it more clearly points to Yardrat and the rivalry as opposed to a blatant obsession.
It's funny (and thematically fitting) that Vegeta catches up to Goku and that they become real, healthy rivals the moment he stopped being obsessed with Goku at the end of the Buu Saga and then asked Whis to train him.
@jamesjoe1690 During Namek it was massive. Vegeta was able to close the gap after the 3 year time skip and left Goku in the dust by becoming Super Vegeta. But Goku gaped him after his own training in the RoST and the gap became much wider in the Buu arc.
I agree that Goku doesn't get stronger to purposely one up Vegeta but at the same time the majority of rivalrys in anime in general ALWAYS happen even if the MC isn't active in it (Bakugo with Deku, Hiei with Yusuke, Grimmjow with Ichigo, etc). Another thing is that Vegeta's ongoing rivalry makes sense since in Z, Vegeta had been constantly competitive with Goku for the sake of his wounded pride. In the present he's still competitive with Goku but it's for the sake bettering himself and surpassing his limits. The exact reason for Goku always training and why he's always ahead. It's because he was able to let go of trying regain honor for his ego that he's able to grow more as a fighter which is why they're now relative in strength.
@@zynergx6973there’s a difference between Goku and other MCs with their rivals Goku does not give a fk about anyone but him and his family and friends which is why he didn’t come back for 7 years after cell saga
@@ssj4ssbgogeta957the gap in power literally makes no sense. Off the cuff Vegeta starts by killing two of Frieza's henchmen. Loses to Zarbon, gets healed and then kills Zarbon. Actual combat should be a significant boost over just training. Then loses to Recoome, gets healed again and by this point he should be a head of Goku. Gets injured by Krillin and gets healed by Dende. Why would Goku be stronger than Vegeta at that point?
That's one thing i liked about DBZ that separated itself from other shounen is that it didn't try to force the rival troupe on the protagonist too hard (until Super).
Fr now cuz of super vegeta fans would absolutely cry if goku is a little bit stronger than vegeta .There is a video by zephire->" vegeta ruined dragonball"(it ain't a hate vid towards vegeta btw). It exactly explains this.
What do you mean, in multiple officla databooks and guides they're called rivals. Even in the manga they're called rivals by elder Kai when he explains why vegito is so strong
I must agree that the rivalry in Z was, at best, one-sided. While promotional materials, games, and fan discussions frequently amplify their sense of competition, this dynamic isn't as present in the manga. In fact, Weekly Shōnen Jump, issue #28 from 1995 states, "A pair of rivals have merged with the Potara!". While we don't know who wrote that line, it's obvious that someone writing for Jump saw their relationship in this light. Personally, I enjoy their Super dynamic, particularly when they team up for two-on-one battles. It adds an intriguing twist to their relationship and demonstrates that Vegeta has matured since the end of Z and can now compete with Goku in a healthier manner. It's a fascinating topic, and I look forward to seeing more videos like this from you in the future. Cheers!
Their rivalry is actually brought up in the manga itself. Elder Kai mentions the fact that Goku and Vegeta compete against each other actually helps make the fusion more effective.
@@philw3039Right, but it was still one-sided. At that point, Vegeta was still obsessed with comparing himself to Goku (he almost refused to even listen about the Potara because he discovered Goku could use SSJ3). You could argue he reciprocated once Majin Vegeta became a thing, but he really only fought him to help Vegeta work through his existential crisis. Not to compete or prove anything to him (at that point, the gap between their powers was the largest it had ever been, so of course Goku had nothing to prove). It's also worth noting that Old Kai had only just been released from the Z Sword. How much could he possibly know about Goku and Vegeta's relationship?
@@donovan4222That's not the same. Naruto is constantly measuring his progress to Sasuke's, smirking whenever he gets an edge over him (especially in Part 1), and is happy when he's acknowledged by him.
@@laststrike4411 Goku in the Saiyan saga tells Krillin to spare Vegeta because he had never fought someone so strong, and this made him more excited than scared. Goku also then said he wanted to rematch Vegeta someday. That sounds like a rivalry to me…
The way he consistently rebuffs Vegeta's attempts to spark competition (like he did after arriving from Yardrat) just makes it clear. He wasn't interested in having a rival. All Goku wanted was a strong opponent to test his skills against. It could've been anyone, not necessarily Vegeta. This is part of why I don't like their dynamic in Super. The way Goku gets salty about losing their sparring match and says "Story of your life, huh?" Is a complete contradictory to his blatant indifference to Vegeta's comments in DBZ. Goku, fundamentally, never had that kind of pride or ego in his pursuit of strength. All he wanted was to test his limits. Vegeta explicitly said as much during his "You are the best" speech when Goku was fighting Kid Buu.
@@OnionCurry goku’s “rival” is a good fight. He wants to get stronger. And by getting stronger that just means he wants to always improve. And Goku is always improving and constantly fighting and he’s essentially pushing himself to be the best version he can possibly be because he simply wants to always improve. Similar to how we want to get a good job and by putting the work/effort in to always improve, we end up living the best life we possibly can and getting that job
I have a new found appreciation for how Akira Toriyama wrote Vegeta and Goku as lessons in what not to do and what to do. Vegeta saw everyone as less than him Goku didn't. Vegeta becomes arrogant as soon as you give him a little power Goku doesn't. Vegeta trains alone which limited his growth, while Goku trained with others and would invite others to train with him. Goku leared from teachers who were eventually all weaker than him and still he kept learening from them never disrespecting them and but Vegita was too stuborn to learn from anyone. In the time chamber, Vegita ignored his son which not only hindered his own growth but his sons who was a hybrid like gohan with more potential than a full saiyan and made his son afraid of hurting his father fragile ego. Toriyama made that crystal clear with Goku and Gohan. Goku didn't ignore Gohan, he treated him like an equal training partner and always saw his son as someone who could surpass him. They grew so much together that the gap between Vegita and Goku would never be closed ever again.
“Way stronger than Vegeta?!” In the Saiyan arc…?! No, just no, Goku was never a match for Vegeta during that fight…Goku hit him with a Kaio-Ken x4 Kamehameha and all it did was make Vegeta mad. Goku was broken after that attack but Vegeta flew back down still composed and ready to throw down. Goku was screwed and he knew it…
11:32 woah Vegeta did recognize this, that’s why he didn’t use grade 3. Perfect Cell tells that to trunks. But he didn’t think to go on to master the SS form
“Vegeta is the only one competing in this race, goku just also happens to be running” I somewhat agree, but you can easily say the same of other rivals. Naruto is always chasing sasuke in every way, and unlike goku, sasuke actually doesn’t care about Naruto in the slightest for the majority of shippuden. However just because one person is more invested into the rivalry for longer periods of time doesn’t mean it isn’t a rivalry. That is actually to be expected with rivals whenever one of them becomes stronger than the other. It’s kind of hard to be rivals when your “rival” is significantly weaker than you. And both sasuke and goku literally worship power (be it in different ways). However they both will have absolutely zero interest in someone if they aren’t powerful. And they are both stronger than their rival for the majority of the series. And the times that they aren’t stronger, they are back focused on Naruto and Vegeta. Which proves my point. This difference in power is why goku seemed so unconcerned with vegeta in the cell saga. Despite vegeta previously being a milestone for goku. And it’s also why Naruto was pretty much invisible to sasuke I until the pain arc. Because Naruto became powerful, so sasuke began to see him again.
Sasuke's situation is a bit different because he himself was obsessed with defeating Itachi. His rivalry with Naruto was mainly important to him because he was using it to measure his progress towards being ready to face Itachi, it was never really about trying to outdo Naruto just for the sake of being superior (like Vegeta with Goku). And for awhile, Sasuke was very emotionally invested in their rivalry, especially after the fight with Gaara, when Naruto started pulling ahead in strength. However, once Itachi stepped back in the picture, Sasuke began to view their rivalry as a distraction because it went hand-in-hand with their growing bond which Sasuke came to believe was holding him back.
A true rivalry needs to be a two way street. A peer who you measure yourself against to be better than at every turn at any given situation of the rivalry should need arise. Goku will never back down from a fight with Vegeta because he is competitive. Not necessarily because he sees Vegeta as a goal/rival that he must compare himself to. He wants a good fight and trusts Vegeta can give him one. Vegetas entire mindset is Goku, whereas Gokus mindset is improvement of one's self and nothing more. Its one sided rivalry at best.
@@donovan4222 Naruto was itching to fight Sasuke but only if it was a fair fight as fellow Leaf ninja. The first time they seriously fought Sasuke was still recovering from injuries so Naruto didn't want to do it. The other times Sasuke had abandoned Konoha and was fighting Naruto as a missing nin, also something Naruto did not want.
@@UnifiedEntity Kinda agree. Goku is basically "come at me bro" personified so he feels the need to be ready to face any challenger. In that sense, it's kind of impossible for him to have a truly mutual rivalry. Still he does appreciate and acknowledge everyone who has strived to compete against him. Vegeta, Piccolo, Tien...even Frieza (sort of). No one is Goku's rival but also in a weird way _everyone_ is.
I always said this to people who bitched and moaned about Vegeta "never getting respect" or "time to shine" or some pretentious shit like that when it came to goku. 1) its not about him in this series, its about Goku. 2) Gokus goal is self reflective and wants to better himself FOR HIMSELF not to prove a point to solely Vegeta 3) Vegeta was never a long lasting goal for him. 4) he learned a long time ago to keep training as there is someone stronger possibly around the corner.
Ngl this video made me realize I am literally Vegeta when it comes to fighting games and that’s why my growth is stunted. I play to win when I should be playing to get better like Goku does. Time to hit training mode in Sparking.
@@mamadoubarrie6607 Before them it was Yamcha. Even in Super, Hit, Jiren, Broly, Frieza, etc. Uub in the future. Goku cycles through temp rivals like candy. He ain't loyal.
@pree76 Vegeta is weaker after he gets his tail cut off and is only definitively stronger than Goku for less than one day after time chamber training, and it stays that way until the end of the series.
@baronn9809 This is definitively untrue as Vegeta recovers before goku and is stronger then when he had his tail, hence how he kills qui. Vegeta in base with no kaioken also pushed goku to the brink, his body was already strained past it's limits hence why he was told not to use kaiokenx3 let alone x4. Vegeta had enough energy to fight gohan and take a spirit bomb and survived then got a great ape dropped on him after losing his tail lmao. Vegeta is stronger than goku during the android saga, not debatable. When goku goes into the chamber he manages to surpass vegeta and then goku dies. Then goku is stronger in the Majin buu saga and now it switched between goku and vegeta in the manga of DBS it was never one sided.
@pree76 Both of them got zenkais canonically we don't know what the difference in their strength was but kaioken x4 goku is still stronger than goku. Kaioken goku also obliterated vegeta. Vegeta only won when he transformed into an ape. After that all everyone was weakened and only goku who had his kegs crushed could even muster a technique to defeat him anyways. It is debatable. Piccolo says vegeta may even be stronger than goku once while goku has a heart virus. That's it. It isn't until veegta exits the hyperbolic time chamber is it definitive and it lasts longer than a day.
@@baronn9809 Goku only made it to kaioken X4 during the beam clash what are you talking about, which vegeta survived. Vegeta just had no knowledge of what kaioken was. Vegeta was definitely stronger than goku as he had several zenkai boosts before goku began his training. Your argument is vegeta might not be stronger in the android saga because you want the premise of the post to be correct but the only statement we have is from piccolo, goku also believes he wouldn't do any better against the androids then vegeta and trunks. Even if they were equal your argument falls apart because rivals would be trying to get ahead regardless lmfao. I also think its funny goku himself tells krillin vegeta opened his eyes to how strong he could become and said he couldn't defeat him. He said vegeta was his motivation for getting stronger which would ring true on his journey to namek. Raditz was reasonably close, vegeta was so strong goku's perspective on power shifted entirely. I'll reiterate, vegeta is stronger until namek, goku is stronger until android saga, vegeta is stronger until the cell games, and then its goku again for the majin buu saga
Vegeta competing with Goku is like if you’re riding a bike and you see a car and decide “if I reach that tree before the car does, I win.” Only one of you is even aware you’re competing and the car is superior to a bike.
Ngl in Z it really is a one-sided rivalry, Vegeta has Goku living rent free in his head after their first match, so much that he in essence sells his soul to bait out a rematch. And Goku has never defeated Vegeta in any on-screen capacity. Goku has his moments of out pacing and pioneering new power and forms most of the time, but even Vegeta has his moments at times.
Spot on. Idk why ppl are disagreeing. After Goku’s defeat on earth he never tried to keep up with Vegeta he focused on himself. Whereas in Super they constantly one up each other .
In Super, theyre more like sparring buddies than actual rivals. Its less rivalry and more like your gym bro, vegeta has truly become Goku's "best buddy"
@@AmneHex Krillin is still his best friends but yeah, Goku and Vegeta are friends now. There's no real animosity or hatred from Vegeta's part anymore. They truly like each other now. It's a healthy competition now.
This is a blatant lie that completely overlooks the very reason Vegeta was spared in the first place. If y’all don’t read Dragon Ball, then just don’t speak on it. It’s not hard. 🤦♂️
I agree that the rivalry was pretty one-sided, but I also don't agree that Goku didn't see Vegeta as a rival *at all* , it's just he was way less obsessed about it and there was always a huge external threat to face. I will say that Goku has often seemed to at least want to get along with Vegeta to a degree, but it never really happened until the Buu saga.
@@a1saiyan5 This, and he still had to knock him out after pretending to team up to fight Buu. Also, Goku had SSJ3 the whole time. A win is a win I guess, but I wouldn't be proud of this one as Vegeta.
So to you vegeta is stronger since he has more win then goku in official one on one even though goku is majority of the show stronger when it come to fighting villians vegeta come he loses goku come he wins It not to hard to say goku is mostly one up vegeta in the show But vegeta has more more times when they fought MEANING VEGETA WON MORE BUT GOKU STRONGER OVERALL
Big reasons as to why Goku has a one up on Vegeta throughout Z was because of the senzu beans while training to Namek and Otherworld making the burden off ssj less on Goku body, that made him able to push ssj beyond its limits and go to ssj3. If it weren't for these reasons they might have been more relative to each other
I definitely agree with that plus the training in yardrat that Goku had gave him a big advantage over Vegeta as we seen how far it pushed him in super in the Moro arc
Like to add that Goku fought way more stronger opponents than Vegeta since he was a child. He ended up gaining knowledge and different methods of training. I also noticed Vegeta tends to over do it when training while Goku properly rest his body before training more.
I never understood why people use these examples to say that Goku had advantages over Vegeta and was never actually just better then him when in the cell arc before either go into the hyperbolic time chamber Goku and Vegeta are around the same strength(you could even argue Vegeta was a little stronger) yet Goku still comes out stronger. So we have an example of Goku and Vegeta going through the exact same training for a similar amount of time(and keep in mind Vegeta had a stronger sparring partner for a bit as Trunks was stronger then Gohan going in but Gohan surpassed him later)yet Goku comes out superior, so this notion that Goku and Vegeta would be equals if it wasn’t for external factors that aided Goku I don’t agree with because we’ve seen Goku still be stronger then Vegeta after they do the exact same training.
@@childishe60 Exactly, Goku had to constantly fight people stronger, faster, better at combat than him or a combination of these since he was a child. He's used to be the underdog and think outside the box to win, or even train to grow stronger. While Vegeta although he knew people stronger than him, he almost never or never fought someone stronger than him until goku on earth.
@@Jasecapo Here's my view on the matter. People often claim that Goku is more "naturally talented" then Vegeta is. Even the games for some reason try to pass this idea off from time to time (Kakarot tried to pass this idea off in DLC 1 but in the EOZ DLC they actually solidified Goku and Vegeta's rivalry nicely). But, Goku has had every external advantage over Vegeta in a way. He was *raised* by martial arts experts his entire early life, learning very important lessons from Master Roshi early on. From Popo and Kami, and he had rivals *not on Vegeta's level of obsession of course* to help push him further and further. Vegeta, on the other hand, was born far stronger then Goku, and more then likely would have remained far stronger had Raditz never forced Goku into the otherworld and introduced threats of ridiculous levels of strength to the Earth. Forcing the Z fighters to adapt faster then they ever had before. After Goku beat Raditz, he got training from King Kai. So at this point, Goku has had training from like, 4 godly beings and an Immortal martial arts master. What did Vegeta have? Nappa...that was it. The Frieza Force hardly saw themselves as martial arts masters, they were brutal pirates that believed small power level jumps (like 18k to 24k) were insane leaps of power. Vegeta growing up never had any rivals like Goku did, his biggest obstacle was Frieza, Zarbon and Dodoria, and for most of his life they were stagnant walls of insurmountable power. Meanwhile Raditz and Nappa were too weak and submissive to offer him any challenge. No one trained him properly, and yet he still turned out as strong and as gifted as he did. So Goku has the knowledge, the training, the mindset, and the experience of a martial arts expert on his side when it comes to training. Vegeta, all he knows about training is "push a saiyans body to near death then heal". He trained in a far less healthy way then Goku rid because Goku was taught by humans and God's *how* to train, while Vegeta always did it on his own. In DB Super, they're pretty much on par aside from their top forms now. With Vegeta even being able to beat out Goku one-on-one when in the same form. Vegeta being trained by Whis caused him to grow leaps and bounds, he didn't even have to do the ssj God ritual to achieve God ki. They also train *together*, that's not something they ever did in Z.
They only become rivals when Vegeta begins to properly train with a teacher in Whis. He even gets the base on base victory vs Goku in Dragon Ball Super Hero Fulfilling his desire to defeat Goku.
@@santi_super_stunts2573 which is why Whis made them stay in base because transformations only multiply your base power anyway so why bother fighting at x2000 buff when you can just take the x2000 out.
@@starslight-x3o not true necessarily, just because u have a base of 2 let’s say and I have a base of 1 but your best multiplier is only a 2x but mine is a times 5 multiplier , I get the higher one, and in dragon ball no one ever fights base to base that’s just asking to lose.
nah freeza was an enemy - just like Vegeta. then he dies,get alive just to kill goku again, dies again. i would say he start being a rival from dbs broly.
7:54 in particular, vegeta's power at the time is higher than goku's base power level amplified by kaioken x2. 250,000 might be too low, but I was realizing that Vegeta's martial arts skill is already great deal above Freeza by this point, and that miiight add up that he was managing to keep up while less than half Freeza's full strength if Freeza is holding back. At max, Vegeta's power level is 400,000, as there is some degree of Freeza not giving it his all, but is likely 350,000 for those who want to theorize deeper. This is also just about the threshold to deal with Kaioken x4 Goku before his own incoming zenkai overshadows all of Vegeta's.
It wasn't really a rivalry because Goku never focused on trying to surpass Vegeta. He kind of ignores him and trained for himself, while Vegeta was the one always focusing on Goku. If Vegeta died or never came back, Goku would have moved on to whatever the next opponent was and forget about him. It was Vegeta chasing after Goku. As opposed to Goku's rivalry with Freeza in Super comes off more as a back and fourth where they are both interested in each other. Vegeta was mostly on the side. Though it might justify why Vegeta was so desperate to fight Goku again in the Buu arc... but apart from enjoying his fights with Vegeta, Goku doesn't really care that much about him the same way. He's never in a position after their first fight where he is below Vegeta and wanting to surpass him. Where as Naruto and Sasuke were a better rivalry dynamic because there were times early on where they were both aware of each other's signs of potential a bit more closely. Sasuke and Naruto were jealous of each other at some points, and Sasuke did acknowledge Naruto working harder than Sakura in part 1, despite his dismissal of him generally. Naruto and Sasuke were a bit more literal rivals to me, but Goku and Vegeta... not really, its a bit more one-sided but kind of worked more in favor of Vegeta's characterization. Goku was more of an unattainable peak for himself and only a rivalry in Vegeta's mind who was his polar opposite in ambition and character. While Goku cared more about improving himself which made him pure hearted (as in clear of thought and singular in his aims), because his mind and motive was only about pushing himself and just that. He was never jealous of other characters or bitter. He was always just inspired by people he fought, even if they were villains. He even complements Freeza.
I read somewhere that Toriyama didn’t care for Vegeta at first and favored Piccolo over him. Wonder how the series would have went during the Cell and Majin saga without Vegeta.
Fun fact, Kondo is the one that made AT sit down when he peed. Fans got Vegeta killed in a petty act of spite. He couldn’t actually remove him, but he could punish for those letters.
Exactly Goku never saw Vegeta as a rival after Namek Saga especially in DBZ it wasn’t until buu saga he threw a temper tantrum in Goku face that made him realise
This is why I've dropped dragonball its just the Goku show no one is allowed to get the win except Goku my favorite character was Vegeta but after he lost to Moro when it seemed like Vegeta would finally win for once I dropped the series right then and there im not interested in watching Vegeta get his ass beat just so it can make Goku look good and it makes the show less exciting when you know that Goku will get the win somewhere at the end like he has every single time before! Dragonball is trash
@@nerdy_boy2785His analysis of the Saiyan Arc is dead wrong, isn’t fact based at all. Vegeta was still utterly superior to Goku in that fight, he would have lost in a big way had several other things not happened in his favor, namely his friends intervening.
@@immortal5812He was saying that goku was stronger than vegeta and showed the manga panel of him using kaioken, after goku used kaioken x3 he definitely was stronger than vegeta. Obviously base goku in the saiyan saga wasn’t as good as vegeta
The switch to the more rival like and competitive nature in Super actually makes since due to it being after his Buu saga development. He genuinely accepts his ties to his family and allows that to fuel him further. He also adopts Goku's mentality with fighting to improve more than always win.
I always did think that Piccolo was more of Goku's rival, you know, before being eclipsed in strength. But Goku and Piccolo were just as heavily invested in the rivalry. In fact, Goku had a stronger rivalry with Tien after his lost in the 22nd Budokai. Not trying to downplay the share symbolic nature of Goku and Vegeta dynamic, but rivals kind of rang hallow. At least in Z.
I feel like piccolo shoulda been stronger this whole time. He’s been training just as hard as vegeta and goku and doesn’t take a day off plus looks after all of their kids in the meantime. He’s lowkey the undisputed goat post og DB
Gokou was unintentionally being a savage at the beginning towards Vegeta. He knows, and didn’t brag, which might be worse, it’s just truth he’s saying.
In martial arts (not that MMA bs lol) we're taught to not chase a person that beats u in a fight but to improve yourself as once u arrive to the side of the fence of the guy you're chasing he's already gone and further up ahead. DBZ showcased this well.
Great video, funny how this came up because I was joking with my cousin saying that vegeta's rival is actually piccolo lol. Edit: Piccolo was on par with vegeta on namek, the Android saga, and cell games where both were fighting the cell juniors and Piccolo was taking on 4 of them and holding his own. Now with his orange piccolo transformation they're relative to each other. Movies also imply this.
I mean I would say they’re definitely rivals. It may not be in the sense where they’re both always equal in power but they’re always competing with each other to be the strongest possible. I mean that’s the definition of a rival
No they aren't they aren't always competing to be the strongest possible. Goku wants to be stronger not the strongest he trains Gohan to be stronger than him and trains Goten & Trunks to create someone stronger than him. That IS NOT true.
@@sixfromtokyo goku trained for namek because of his loss to vegeta. Vegeta was his reference point the entire way there or at least for most of it. Goku training gohan and the kids to be stronger has nothing to do with how he sees vegeta. He doesn’t obsess over it like vegeta does but that doesn’t mean he never saw him as a rival. When he found out he was up against vegeta in the tournament in buu he was excited because he knew he’d be the best fight he could get out of everyone there
@@hybridsaiyan22 Thing is, Goku never trained specifically for Vegeta after their first squabble. He trains to challenge himself, become stronger and protect his family and friends. His training on his way to Names is as much if not more for himself and for Frieza as it's for the case he might face off with Vegeta again.
Without Goku, Vegeta would lose all motivation. Goku is simply his motivator. Even when Gohan surpassed them both, Vegeta never really cared. He acknowledged it, but doesn't see Gohan as his equal. Goku is the only pure Saiyan left at the time too!
The reason Goku and Vegeta are rivals in Super and not Z is because Vegeta in Super fights Kakarot to better himself, to surpass his previous limits. Goku is perfectly okay with this and welcomes the challenge. Vegeta in Z just wanted to beat Kakarot to heal his wounded ego, which is why Goku never gave Vegeta the time of day until he was forced to, because he knew kicking Vegeta's ass a second time would only exacerbate the issue.
To be fair there was never a time for a rematch since they were constantly training for a new threat hell Vegeta saved goku from 19 just so he could have his chance to fight him.
Hmmm that's not entirely true in Z. Goku was still ready to fight Vegets whenever they had the chance. Hell in the world tournament he was looking forward to it. Vegeta was the massive aggressor at the end of the day though. Super is the same thing , but to a lesser extent on aggression but Vegeta still has Goku on his mind, where Goku doesn't have a singular person in mind. Hell, he's never expressed Beerus being on his mind despite losing to him.
@@UnifiedEntityGoku did not pay attention to Vegeta in Cell Saga and in Buu saga he was more interested in piccolo fight with the Kai then his own fight with Vegeta
8:37 i often wondered if Goku being able to sense the fight between Vegeta and Freeza was a factor in how strong he's gotten at that time. I can understand the idea that the way Goku trained played a role in his zenkai boost but it would be cool if him sensing that fight helped his boost grow higher as the power levels increased.
This is so true. We've been conditioned to think that they were always rivals but Goku was always ahead with Vegeta competing to surpass him instead lol.
He wasnt what Kind of mental gymnastics do you have to BE ON to think that Goku won the First Fight Goku lost massively He was clearly outmatched IT took the whole z Gang jumping him for Goku and Friends to win
@@Trap_senpai_ Goku was always ahead of vegeta? Vegeta was stronger than goku from the saiyan saga all the way to the middle of the namek saga. He got surpassed but surpassed Goku again when he fights frieza. Goku would then be stronger until the android saga where vegeta would be stronger than him until the cell saga. Goku would be stronger until the RoF arc where vegeta would be stronger than him until the late Goku black arc. Goku didn’t surpass vegeta in the universe 6 tournament because although he could use blue kaioken, it would also kill him. This rivalry of them surpassing each would continue
Awesome video man, I love how you usdd the manga for reference. The closest thing Goku had to a 5rue rival was Piccolo. Demon King Piccolo is responsible for the deaths of everyone he held dear, and he trained so hard and grew into a man to face off against Picxolo Jr in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, but it's never one sided. They're both willing to put aside their rivaltry to face Raditz, and by the tome Piccolo reforms he becomes like the brother Goku never had. I love their dynamic and they're super underrated compared to Golu and Vegeta
@@sixfromtokyoI don't know about that, the ssj3 takes alot out of Goku and Vegeta is quite the tactician, he always disses the form for being less than useful it'd be a matter of if Goku could finish the fight before running out of ki
In the first fight, he was spared by Krillin because Goku told him to spare him and in the second fight, Goku could’ve ended it immediately. If I was vegeta , I’d be pretty mad.
@@peacefuldestroyer2135 so he got jumped and Goku didn't use the useless form... I still don't get it especially when all you have to do against ssj3 is just stall while he drains his energy
@@peacefuldestroyer2135 he was literally forced to power down in the fight with Kid Buu and yeah it's fast but it's not like characters with drastically different levels of strength haven't clashed before ie literally the very first fight with Vegeta and pretty much every fight in the show for the most part but unlike those characters ssj3 has massive power drain
thing is goku had help, or techniques to use. That not a win to Vegeta, a win is going all out and putting your life on the line. That definition for vegeta winning, he probably don't mean to kill Goku anymore but he try to fight him at his best. That why Vegeta always do stuff to annoy Goku at times.
One of the things that really annoyed me about Super was Vegeta still chasing after Goku after the Buu arc where he admitted Goku was better because of his mindset.Goku always pushed for self improvement in very healthy ways where if he lost a fight he would ask for help and never minded getting training from others even if they were considered weaker then him(like staying behind on yardrat to learn instant transmission),while Vegeta would always get angry and go brood in the rain They had such a great moment when Vegeta finally asked someone else to train him with Wis but they turned the whole moment into a big joke which kinda is the overall feeling I get from Super
What's with the glaze in the comments? See a bunch of hating already. I always liked this detail from Z, Goku always moved forward trying to better himself and protect the earth while he had interest in Vegeta once he surpassed him on Namek he never considered Vegeta a true rival. This might be a hot take but I like them being actual rivals in Super because it shows how far Vegeta has come from his Z version that was self destructive with his methods of training and willing to be given power just to maybe catch up with Goku. Now Vegeta has a family he wants to protect and gets stronger not just for himself or to keep up with Goku and is actively trying to make up for the mistakes of the past like in the Moro and Granolah arc. Now he's consistently equal to Goku and even beat him in a fair 1v1 in the Super Hero arc although it was close.
@@Christo_Trismegistus That makes no sense considering again Vegeta won their fair 1v1 in their base forms in dragon ball super super hero and in the Granolah arc it was shown they were basically equal throughout the arc once Vegeta gained Ultra Ego. The fact Vegeta can barely beat Goku in base means even if they go to their strongest forms there isn't gonna a significant strength difference if there was it would be miniscule certainly not to the point Vegeta would lose faster than he could think as you claim.
I agree. While Goku doesn't get stronger to purposely one up Vegeta but at the same time the majority of rivalries in anime in general ALWAYS happen even if the MC isn't active in it (Bakugo with Deku, Hiei with Yusuke, Grimmjow with Ichigo, etc). Another thing is that Vegeta's ongoing rivalry makes sense since in Z, Vegeta had been constantly competitive with Goku for the sake of his wounded pride. In the present he's still competitive with Goku but it's for the sake bettering himself and surpassing his limits. The exact reason for Goku always training and why he's always ahead. It's because he was able to let go of trying regain honor for his ego that he's able to grow more as a fighter which is why they're now relative in strength.
@@zynergx6973 I haven't watched Yu Yu Hakusho so I can speak on that but Deku and Ichigo are active in their rivalries. Deku has multiple fights with Bakugo to show how far he's grown and that he won't give up his dream of becoming the number 1 hero and he constantly thinks about how to beat Bakugo or understands him so well he predict him a lot. Ichigo trained throughout the arrancar arc to get his run back with Grimmjow, instead of taking Orehime immediately and leaving he stays to fight Grimmjow and he's even called out for it and while denied it at first he admits that deep down he came just to fight Grimmjow. But yeah I agree with everything else you said.
I'd argue that to this day, the fight for the edge was always about the idiosyncrasies in their code. Vegeta embarked upon the path to destruction and as we see it's an exceptionally difficult state to maintain. Essentially the will to be evil, rely on your own ideology alone, and bear no glaring low points. Incredibly difficult. You're shutting off any and all lifelines to end as a byword Meanwhile Goku's approach to serenity affords him certain privileges which contribute to chief unlocks. This is the principal behind communion. In the upheaval of community life, people offer up gifts to enable the would be champion towards progress out of respect for his cause. This was Roshi's handoff to Tien and it paid off a number of times In the matrix, the keymaker opens doors that only he has access to in order to assist in the severity of Neo's cause. Even at the risk of his own life These unlocks are the "oh I have just the thing" which marks a celebration of cause. This is Roshi knowing just the right words to motivate Goku up the mountain or Kame understanding elements about the void which links our world and the beyond. A literal LIFETIME to committing himself to the balance to be allowed to vouch to the very bureaucratic Yemma that Goku deserves to have a body in the afterlife This sponsorship element is crucial to Goku's growth and ability to materialize will for a grander cause. So much so that Vegeta pounced on the opportunity to train under the condition of becoming the next god of destruction. There was nothing dubious to Whis conditions either as he is bound to uphold universal laws Whis knows that the supreme Kai is a vulnerable agent and would ensure that Beerus gets replaced without a fraction of a delay. He understands the pressures of darkness leading to the eventuality of Majin and the like. A god of destruction keeps those motives in check. Beerus being the lazy figure that he is, represents the lackadaisical merits of his universe and its inhabitants. Crazy powerful when pushed whimsical when trials are absent. A lot like Gohan Since Vegeta has an insatiable appetite for conquest and struggles with righteousness, he is the perfect candidate for destruction. He has to abide by certain laws to maintain his power, but is willing to dabble in order if it means personal growth. Being motivated by Goku as that thorn in his side is a plus that Whis shamelessly exploits as he's well aware of Goku's affinity for coloring within the lines and achieving those unlocks. This will invariably spurn Vegeta into dutiful commitment to form where Whis can teach him the boundaries of destructive merit Remember, the chessboard has both black and white tiles. Good and evil and both on the playing field of chaos and order
"Grandpa" Gohan wouldn't get to pull his Diddy antics with Vegeta (unlike with Gokek). The prince wipes him and the rest of the planet. Or are we talking with him as a baby (instead of the age he would have been in canon at the time of Gokek's arrival)? He's still merc GROOMhan. Or should we assume he just happens to have his savagery wiped out by an alleged "accident", too? With his natural power and prodigious ability to make his own moves, I'm unsure he would even find himself encountering much less choosing to be taught by those teachers at all.
I agree that Goku doesn't get stronger to purposely one up Vegeta but at the same time the majority of rivalries in anime in general ALWAYS happen even if the MC isn't active in it (Bakugo with Deku, Hiei with Yusuke, Grimmjow with Ichigo, etc). Another thing is that Vegeta's ongoing rivalry makes sense since in Z, Vegeta had been constantly competitive with Goku for the sake of his wounded pride. In the present he's still competitive with Goku but it's for the sake bettering himself and surpassing his limits. The exact reason for Goku always training and why he's always ahead. It's because he was able to let go of trying regain honor for his ego that he's able to grow more as a fighter which is why they're now relative in strength.
U have to remember that Dragon Ball GT did the same thing with ssj4 goku and vegeta were relative in power at the end only difference is gt didn’t have vegeta yapping about being superior to goku
I think that it’s fitting for them to actually become narrative rivals in super because it reflects how Vegeta’s philosophy about fighting and strength have changed
This is a bad take bro, Goku vs Vegeta is the OG rivalry to all these other rivalries. They’ve been beefing for decade and even the newest episode of Daima recycled the sparing match from the beginning of the Super Broly movie. They can’t stop pitting these two against each other, just because you can’t recognize it doesn’t mean everyone else does lol 😂 Goku and Vegeta not rivals? That’s rich😂😂
It's not rivals when Vegeta is constantly taking L's almost every time and Goku always saving the day. There has been very few times where Vegeta was the one to save everyone or even win a fight. It's not Sasuke and Naruto. Goku can bust Vegeta anytime he wants
Six playing with fire but I really do get this, one of my beefs with how much super pushes the rivalry is most of the time I don't even feel like Goku really cares about settling the score with Vegeta anymore ,and most of the interesting stuff that happens with Vegeta doesn't involve Goku
Well said. Goku’s allowed the rivalry to continue, because Goku wanted to maintain some sort of kinship to Vegeta based on their saying lineage. And secretly wanted Vegeta to become a better person. That’s why you have Goku say one-liners in the anime such as so-and-so to our rivalry.
it’s crazy that the whole namek saga made everyone way more powerful than they ever thought they could be just for the androids to come and wipe them out anyways
What Vegeta doesn’t get is that Goku has been beating people with unimaginable odds since he was a kid in DB but Vegeta comes along into Goku’s life and is the only person who took it this far he’s in denial the entire Z story
stick to Naruto 🤣
My bad teeniest tiniest bro.
Bro really said Goku and Vegeta aren’t rivals when his favorite anime is a carbon copy of dbz and the Goku vegeta rivalry just in reverse (friends that became enemies)
@@opimpers What anime do you think is a copy of dragon ball z? LMAO
@@opimpers my favorite anime is DBZ
@@duplexpanda5038 all modern shounen are influenced from the GOAT scrub
The "Yea, I wasn't Really Suggesting" Line Is just peak.
Especially the smirk on goku’s face after
The music being cut before the line is ridiculous
funimation dub had him being blunt as fuck "yea I'm way above you" but here he was just out right being a smartass which burns even more
and imagen how much his heart burned when he later learns that his rival's kid was leagues above both of them
Kai dub better
@lightyoshiman doesn't justify vegeta getting everyone murked in buu saga
goku had vegeta fiending for a rematch for a whole decade 😭
let's not forget that bro sold his body to a sentient scrotum for more power, and goku still had to hide SSJ3 from him
At that point in the series (buu saga) vegeta hadn’t even lost to Goku. He was 2-0 against him but the second one wasn’t really a dub since Goku had ssj3, and the first one he didn’t win the battle in the end. But let’s not forget Goku needed kaioken x3 just to get a slight advantage on Vegeta that amounted to nothing, then needed kaioken x4 to win a beam clash with him and vegeta still survived getting hit with that kamehameha, then proceeded to get hit with a spirit bomb, slashed in the back, and crushed by great ape Gohan, and still survived.
@@drich008One of the biggest reason he considered Goku being 2-0 with him is because Goku always won the mental game with Vegeta. Vegeta easily overpowered him in the great Ape form but in his mind, the fact that a low class made him use his transformation and lived to tell about it was an insult. Their second battle didn’t really count because of them getting distracted with Buu revival and also Vegeta knew Goku was holding back. That was another insult to him because in his eyes, Goku looked down on him even with the situation being dire.
@drich008 no fr vegeta was like a roach in a nuclear war during the saiyan saga. toriyama loves making his characters "unkillable" during their arcs
@@drich008 if we’re strictly talking about Dragon Ball, Z that’s a one 1-0 majin Vegeta versus Goku is a draw considered by both characters that’s not a W for Vegeta
Goku really does showcase a Healthy mindset to training and competition. Its never about dunking or breaking his opponent, just wants to make himself and in turn others better. Which is another contributing factor to his massive growth compared to Vegeta i feel
Bro u absolutely cooked🥶
Goku was also willing to have teachers and learn from others. That helped him improve greatly. He wouldn't be the same without Roshi, Korin, Kami, Mr. Popo, Kaiosama, and even Whis now.
True but not at the same time. Namek saga super saiyan goku prolonged his fight with frieza to destroy his ego
@@_questdbzBro was legit angry and overcome with pride due to freshly transforming into a SSJ he wanted to make Frieza suffer so it’s not like a more constant thing but he did learn from this experience but even in this moment Goku still knows wha he be doing even trying to give frieza a chance.
Goku stood on Nappa's head though?
2:08 i just wanna point this out , Vegeta literally killed the one person in the entire universe at this point in the story that ever cared about him and vaporized him for no good reason.
Lets not act like nappa cared about vegeta if nappa was stronger he'd do the same thing but vegeta killing him is still dumb business wise since nappa could most likley be healed later cause if people near the z fighters strength just jumped vegeta with no care of survival he'd most likely die
@@FLYYADIGG24 It also doesn't make sense with Vegeta's characterization in Namek. He was willing to join forces with Krillin and Gohan when the Ginyu Force showed up.
@@kevintanza6968 Nah it makes sense. The time period where Vegeta lived his life under friezas thumb turned the saiyans
into even more ruthless mercenaries that were very cut throat. To the point that Frieza's oppression essentially turned some of the
saiyans against eachother to either maintain their own lives or frieza's favor. I figure Vegeta just never saw a personal connection to nappa,
only seeing him as a meat headed tool. Also I think he know's both he and nappa aren't good people, and Vegeta never struggles to ice bad people.
@@FLYYADIGG24nappa was vegeta teacher and friend, it took care of vegeta as a child, in favt he was basically vegeta second father, so I don’t think nappa would ever try to kill vegeta regardless of power levels
@@FLYYADIGG24 It’s questionable whether Nappa would do the same or not. Remember Nappa was the one who first brought up bringing back Raditz with the Dragon Balls, someone he viewed as a weakling. Although he did move on from that thought pretty fast so who knows. Still a terrible look for Vegeta nonetheless.
Thundergod tomorrow
"Goku & Vegeta were rivals"
S Tier Joke 😂
@@ThunderGodTG "Goku vs Vegeta in dragon ball super were never rivals"
@@JohaalyIve-qi2qd then why did vegeta tell freeza he wont kill goku because he needs him to push himself now tell me what a rival is lmao
@@gokuvegeta7770 r/woosh
GREAT SIX GOKU & VEGETA WERE NEVER RIVAL VIDEO.
Completely agree it not being a rivalry is literally the point of Vegetas frustration and the culmination of that is Vegetas speech when Goku is fighting Kid Buu, I feel their rivalry in super is weird and people like to act like they’ve been rivals the whole time.
I agree they aren't rivals in Z, but I don't think that made super's rivalry weird? Think about it: it's the fact that Vegeta finally acknowledges Goku as the superior, and soon after this, he shows Goku that he caught up. They hold their rivalries now for the sake of surpassing everyone around them as opposed to each other: the way that Goku was always thinking about Vegeta from the moment he met him. No one can take away from the fact that Goku acknowledges Vegeta's climbing powers seemingly following after him and occasionally, though temporarily surpassing him; it doesn't make it a rivalry, but the acknowledgment for Vegeta being a good source of seeing how to improve vs others. Once Vegeta, at the time of Super, begins to establish that same way of thinking, they are more evened out. The whole dynamic they have is that Vegeta is the aggressor who surpassed Goku, whereas Goku is the defender that can still keep up and surpass Vegeta, and this mirrors their very UI and UE forms by the end, which cements the implication of a rivalry beginning and setting ground for super itself.
@@_WiZ420 I would agree with you I’d like them to be rivals in Super but he hasn’t changed he’s still obsessed with beating Goku for some reason, I feel like a healthy development would be him pursuing his own form of strength without obsessing over Goku. He still fights to win like he claims Goku doesn’t.
@@superxcrazy1989 He's not obsessed anymore, this narrative consistently feels strange to me. I don't know how y'all focus on characters, but he merely retains a rivalry. It is just not the same; obsession is the type of shit that is repeatedly stated multiple times in every arc. It's at most a few times in one arc, and rarely otherwise. Training really can not be argued as this either
@@superxcrazy1989 you don’t even read the manga 🤦
Bext example, when the manga's Moro arc paints Vegeta's goal as Kakarot and not Moro, this was both in reference to the techniques gained on Yardrat and the general growth that was received from that training. "Surpassing" Kakarot wasn't even really a thing that he had to do at that time, as they were evenly matched when you know the context of which he says that. UI wasn't on the table. If you mean to say he intends to surpass MUI Goku, then that only proves the point that Vegeta accurately gauged that Goku would be strong enough to beat Moro. It doesn't seem like that was his intention, so it more clearly points to Yardrat and the rivalry as opposed to a blatant obsession.
It's funny (and thematically fitting) that Vegeta catches up to Goku and that they become real, healthy rivals the moment he stopped being obsessed with Goku at the end of the Buu Saga and then asked Whis to train him.
Vegeta was taking their dynamic way too seriously that it became an obsession to surpass Goku. Goku was most of the time was nonchalant about it.
Yeah, and the gap in power wasn't even that wide
@jamesjoe1690 During Namek it was massive.
Vegeta was able to close the gap after the 3 year time skip and left Goku in the dust by becoming Super Vegeta. But Goku gaped him after his own training in the RoST and the gap became much wider in the Buu arc.
I agree that Goku doesn't get stronger to purposely one up Vegeta but at the same time the majority of rivalrys in anime in general ALWAYS happen even if the MC isn't active in it (Bakugo with Deku, Hiei with Yusuke, Grimmjow with Ichigo, etc).
Another thing is that Vegeta's ongoing rivalry makes sense since in Z, Vegeta had been constantly competitive with Goku for the sake of his wounded pride. In the present he's still competitive with Goku but it's for the sake bettering himself and surpassing his limits. The exact reason for Goku always training and why he's always ahead. It's because he was able to let go of trying regain honor for his ego that he's able to grow more as a fighter which is why they're now relative in strength.
@@zynergx6973there’s a difference between Goku and other MCs with their rivals Goku does not give a fk about anyone but him and his family and friends which is why he didn’t come back for 7 years after cell saga
@@ssj4ssbgogeta957the gap in power literally makes no sense. Off the cuff Vegeta starts by killing two of Frieza's henchmen. Loses to Zarbon, gets healed and then kills Zarbon. Actual combat should be a significant boost over just training. Then loses to Recoome, gets healed again and by this point he should be a head of Goku. Gets injured by Krillin and gets healed by Dende. Why would Goku be stronger than Vegeta at that point?
Goku literally had to jump Vegeta in their first fight because he couldn’t beat him.
That's one thing i liked about DBZ that separated itself from other shounen is that it didn't try to force the rival troupe on the protagonist too hard (until Super).
Fr now cuz of super vegeta fans would absolutely cry if goku is a little bit stronger than vegeta .There is a video by zephire->" vegeta ruined dragonball"(it ain't a hate vid towards vegeta btw). It exactly explains this.
@@RONSSI-h4zzephire did not make that video
@@MarcusEveillard he did bro have u checked it ?
What do you mean, in multiple officla databooks and guides they're called rivals. Even in the manga they're called rivals by elder Kai when he explains why vegito is so strong
To say that the rivalry in Super is forced is ignorant and it proves that there is a lack of comprehension within the fanbase.
I must agree that the rivalry in Z was, at best, one-sided. While promotional materials, games, and fan discussions frequently amplify their sense of competition, this dynamic isn't as present in the manga. In fact, Weekly Shōnen Jump, issue #28 from 1995 states, "A pair of rivals have merged with the Potara!". While we don't know who wrote that line, it's obvious that someone writing for Jump saw their relationship in this light. Personally, I enjoy their Super dynamic, particularly when they team up for two-on-one battles. It adds an intriguing twist to their relationship and demonstrates that Vegeta has matured since the end of Z and can now compete with Goku in a healthier manner. It's a fascinating topic, and I look forward to seeing more videos like this from you in the future. Cheers!
Their rivalry is actually brought up in the manga itself. Elder Kai mentions the fact that Goku and Vegeta compete against each other actually helps make the fusion more effective.
@@philw3039Right, but it was still one-sided. At that point, Vegeta was still obsessed with comparing himself to Goku (he almost refused to even listen about the Potara because he discovered Goku could use SSJ3). You could argue he reciprocated once Majin Vegeta became a thing, but he really only fought him to help Vegeta work through his existential crisis. Not to compete or prove anything to him (at that point, the gap between their powers was the largest it had ever been, so of course Goku had nothing to prove).
It's also worth noting that Old Kai had only just been released from the Z Sword. How much could he possibly know about Goku and Vegeta's relationship?
@@filpie6892 So then are Naruto and Sasuke not rivals? Because Naruto never wants to fight him and Sasuke is always the one forcing him to.
@@donovan4222That's not the same. Naruto is constantly measuring his progress to Sasuke's, smirking whenever he gets an edge over him (especially in Part 1), and is happy when he's acknowledged by him.
@@laststrike4411 Goku in the Saiyan saga tells Krillin to spare Vegeta because he had never fought someone so strong, and this made him more excited than scared. Goku also then said he wanted to rematch Vegeta someday. That sounds like a rivalry to me…
I love when goku was telling vegeta that he ain't on his level after the time chamber training.
The way he consistently rebuffs Vegeta's attempts to spark competition (like he did after arriving from Yardrat) just makes it clear. He wasn't interested in having a rival. All Goku wanted was a strong opponent to test his skills against. It could've been anyone, not necessarily Vegeta.
This is part of why I don't like their dynamic in Super. The way Goku gets salty about losing their sparring match and says "Story of your life, huh?" Is a complete contradictory to his blatant indifference to Vegeta's comments in DBZ. Goku, fundamentally, never had that kind of pride or ego in his pursuit of strength. All he wanted was to test his limits.
Vegeta explicitly said as much during his "You are the best" speech when Goku was fighting Kid Buu.
@@DLxxx
Well, who other than Vegeta has been able to keep up with Goku?
Gohan for a time, sure, but not long-term
@@DLxxxwell dbs is just a cashgrab
I love when Vegeta was smacking Goku all over the place during their fight🤷🏾♂️
@@MegaTank40 all because Goku Allowed it
The only thing to ever be Goku's rival is his eternal growth to forever improve.
Ironically that’s exactly what makes him stronger than Vegeta.
Or piccolo
EXCELLENT SIX WORK. ❤❤❤❤
this makes no sense
@@OnionCurry goku’s “rival” is a good fight. He wants to get stronger. And by getting stronger that just means he wants to always improve. And Goku is always improving and constantly fighting and he’s essentially pushing himself to be the best version he can possibly be because he simply wants to always improve. Similar to how we want to get a good job and by putting the work/effort in to always improve, we end up living the best life we possibly can and getting that job
I have a new found appreciation for how Akira Toriyama wrote Vegeta and Goku as lessons in what not to do and what to do. Vegeta saw everyone as less than him Goku didn't. Vegeta becomes arrogant as soon as you give him a little power Goku doesn't. Vegeta trains alone which limited his growth, while Goku trained with others and would invite others to train with him. Goku leared from teachers who were eventually all weaker than him and still he kept learening from them never disrespecting them and but Vegita was too stuborn to learn from anyone. In the time chamber, Vegita ignored his son which not only hindered his own growth but his sons who was a hybrid like gohan with more potential than a full saiyan and made his son afraid of hurting his father fragile ego. Toriyama made that crystal clear with Goku and Gohan. Goku didn't ignore Gohan, he treated him like an equal training partner and always saw his son as someone who could surpass him. They grew so much together that the gap between Vegita and Goku would never be closed ever again.
Best analysis I seen in a while
“Way stronger than Vegeta?!” In the Saiyan arc…?! No, just no, Goku was never a match for Vegeta during that fight…Goku hit him with a Kaio-Ken x4 Kamehameha and all it did was make Vegeta mad. Goku was broken after that attack but Vegeta flew back down still composed and ready to throw down. Goku was screwed and he knew it…
11:32 woah Vegeta did recognize this, that’s why he didn’t use grade 3. Perfect Cell tells that to trunks. But he didn’t think to go on to master the SS form
“Vegeta is the only one competing in this race, goku just also happens to be running” I somewhat agree, but you can easily say the same of other rivals. Naruto is always chasing sasuke in every way, and unlike goku, sasuke actually doesn’t care about Naruto in the slightest for the majority of shippuden.
However just because one person is more invested into the rivalry for longer periods of time doesn’t mean it isn’t a rivalry. That is actually to be expected with rivals whenever one of them becomes stronger than the other. It’s kind of hard to be rivals when your “rival” is significantly weaker than you. And both sasuke and goku literally worship power (be it in different ways). However they both will have absolutely zero interest in someone if they aren’t powerful. And they are both stronger than their rival for the majority of the series. And the times that they aren’t stronger, they are back focused on Naruto and Vegeta. Which proves my point.
This difference in power is why goku seemed so unconcerned with vegeta in the cell saga. Despite vegeta previously being a milestone for goku. And it’s also why Naruto was pretty much invisible to sasuke I until the pain arc. Because Naruto became powerful, so sasuke began to see him again.
Sasuke's situation is a bit different because he himself was obsessed with defeating Itachi. His rivalry with Naruto was mainly important to him because he was using it to measure his progress towards being ready to face Itachi, it was never really about trying to outdo Naruto just for the sake of being superior (like Vegeta with Goku). And for awhile, Sasuke was very emotionally invested in their rivalry, especially after the fight with Gaara, when Naruto started pulling ahead in strength. However, once Itachi stepped back in the picture, Sasuke began to view their rivalry as a distraction because it went hand-in-hand with their growing bond which Sasuke came to believe was holding him back.
@@philw3039 But Naruto never wanted to fight Sasuke either…Sasuke literally forces him to fight both times.
A true rivalry needs to be a two way street. A peer who you measure yourself against to be better than at every turn at any given situation of the rivalry should need arise. Goku will never back down from a fight with Vegeta because he is competitive. Not necessarily because he sees Vegeta as a goal/rival that he must compare himself to. He wants a good fight and trusts Vegeta can give him one. Vegetas entire mindset is Goku, whereas Gokus mindset is improvement of one's self and nothing more. Its one sided rivalry at best.
@@donovan4222 Naruto was itching to fight Sasuke but only if it was a fair fight as fellow Leaf ninja. The first time they seriously fought Sasuke was still recovering from injuries so Naruto didn't want to do it. The other times Sasuke had abandoned Konoha and was fighting Naruto as a missing nin, also something Naruto did not want.
@@UnifiedEntity Kinda agree. Goku is basically "come at me bro" personified so he feels the need to be ready to face any challenger. In that sense, it's kind of impossible for him to have a truly mutual rivalry. Still he does appreciate and acknowledge everyone who has strived to compete against him. Vegeta, Piccolo, Tien...even Frieza (sort of). No one is Goku's rival but also in a weird way _everyone_ is.
I always said this to people who bitched and moaned about Vegeta "never getting respect" or "time to shine" or some pretentious shit like that when it came to goku.
1) its not about him in this series, its about Goku.
2) Gokus goal is self reflective and wants to better himself FOR HIMSELF not to prove a point to solely Vegeta
3) Vegeta was never a long lasting goal for him.
4) he learned a long time ago to keep training as there is someone stronger possibly around the corner.
Ngl this video made me realize I am literally Vegeta when it comes to fighting games and that’s why my growth is stunted. I play to win when I should be playing to get better like Goku does. Time to hit training mode in Sparking.
That's the spirit!
Vegeta replaced Piccolo in being Goku's 2nd fiddle.
yea Piccolo replaced Tien and Tien replaced Krillin in being Goku's 2nd fiddle
@@mamadoubarrie6607 Before them it was Yamcha. Even in Super, Hit, Jiren, Broly, Frieza, etc. Uub in the future. Goku cycles through temp rivals like candy. He ain't loyal.
>second fiddle always washes you in a fight
>stronger than you for the majority of your life
Word?
It's actually pretty interesting how Goku is most of the time the definitive superior but Vegeta is technically Invictus against Goku.
It's vegeta, then goku on namek, then vegeta android saga, cell saga, then goku cell saga, then goku buu saga not really lopsided whatsoever 😂
@pree76 Vegeta is weaker after he gets his tail cut off and is only definitively stronger than Goku for less than one day after time chamber training, and it stays that way until the end of the series.
@baronn9809 This is definitively untrue as Vegeta recovers before goku and is stronger then when he had his tail, hence how he kills qui. Vegeta in base with no kaioken also pushed goku to the brink, his body was already strained past it's limits hence why he was told not to use kaiokenx3 let alone x4. Vegeta had enough energy to fight gohan and take a spirit bomb and survived then got a great ape dropped on him after losing his tail lmao.
Vegeta is stronger than goku during the android saga, not debatable. When goku goes into the chamber he manages to surpass vegeta and then goku dies. Then goku is stronger in the Majin buu saga and now it switched between goku and vegeta in the manga of DBS it was never one sided.
@pree76 Both of them got zenkais canonically we don't know what the difference in their strength was but kaioken x4 goku is still stronger than goku. Kaioken goku also obliterated vegeta. Vegeta only won when he transformed into an ape. After that all everyone was weakened and only goku who had his kegs crushed could even muster a technique to defeat him anyways. It is debatable. Piccolo says vegeta may even be stronger than goku once while goku has a heart virus. That's it. It isn't until veegta exits the hyperbolic time chamber is it definitive and it lasts longer than a day.
@@baronn9809 Goku only made it to kaioken X4 during the beam clash what are you talking about, which vegeta survived. Vegeta just had no knowledge of what kaioken was. Vegeta was definitely stronger than goku as he had several zenkai boosts before goku began his training. Your argument is vegeta might not be stronger in the android saga because you want the premise of the post to be correct but the only statement we have is from piccolo, goku also believes he wouldn't do any better against the androids then vegeta and trunks. Even if they were equal your argument falls apart because rivals would be trying to get ahead regardless lmfao.
I also think its funny goku himself tells krillin vegeta opened his eyes to how strong he could become and said he couldn't defeat him. He said vegeta was his motivation for getting stronger which would ring true on his journey to namek. Raditz was reasonably close, vegeta was so strong goku's perspective on power shifted entirely.
I'll reiterate, vegeta is stronger until namek, goku is stronger until android saga, vegeta is stronger until the cell games, and then its goku again for the majin buu saga
The content we’ve been getting from you has been fire
They weren’t rivals in z at all unironically, in super they are genuine rivals, pre vid
DragonBall is crazy right now. Daima and sparking. Insane
Your Dragon Ball analysis always slaps.
Vegeta competing with Goku is like if you’re riding a bike and you see a car and decide “if I reach that tree before the car does, I win.” Only one of you is even aware you’re competing and the car is superior to a bike.
this was, really well done, especially how you can view Goku's journey to the planet Namek
Ngl in Z it really is a one-sided rivalry, Vegeta has Goku living rent free in his head after their first match, so much that he in essence sells his soul to bait out a rematch. And Goku has never defeated Vegeta in any on-screen capacity. Goku has his moments of out pacing and pioneering new power and forms most of the time, but even Vegeta has his moments at times.
Goku claps Vegeta 9 times out of 10
They only fought twice because those were the only times Vegeta thought he could win that isn't a good thing for vegeta.
2:25 lol, Kid doesn't even know how the Goku vs Vegeta fight went down.
Spot on. Idk why ppl are disagreeing. After Goku’s defeat on earth he never tried to keep up with Vegeta he focused on himself. Whereas in Super they constantly one up each other .
Thats why I always say z goku has died
In Super, theyre more like sparring buddies than actual rivals. Its less rivalry and more like your gym bro, vegeta has truly become Goku's "best buddy"
@@AmneHex Krillin is still his best friends but yeah, Goku and Vegeta are friends now. There's no real animosity or hatred from Vegeta's part anymore. They truly like each other now. It's a healthy competition now.
@@kevintanza6968 yeah the best buddy part was a dbza reference, but yeah krillin is the best friend
This is a blatant lie that completely overlooks the very reason Vegeta was spared in the first place. If y’all don’t read Dragon Ball, then just don’t speak on it. It’s not hard. 🤦♂️
Amazing video as always
I agree that the rivalry was pretty one-sided, but I also don't agree that Goku didn't see Vegeta as a rival *at all* , it's just he was way less obsessed about it and there was always a huge external threat to face.
I will say that Goku has often seemed to at least want to get along with Vegeta to a degree, but it never really happened until the Buu saga.
Goku knows Vegeta ain't on his level so he doesn't care
@@Christo_Trismegistus 3-0 you scrub
@@SometEretook Vegeta to beg a villain for a powerup against ssj2 goku btw
@@a1saiyan5 This, and he still had to knock him out after pretending to team up to fight Buu. Also, Goku had SSJ3 the whole time. A win is a win I guess, but I wouldn't be proud of this one as Vegeta.
So to you vegeta is stronger since he has more win then goku in official one on one even though goku is majority of the show stronger when it come to fighting villians vegeta come he loses goku come he wins
It not to hard to say goku is mostly one up vegeta in the show
But vegeta has more more times when they fought
MEANING VEGETA WON MORE
BUT GOKU STRONGER OVERALL
great video as always
Big reasons as to why Goku has a one up on Vegeta throughout Z was because of the senzu beans while training to Namek and Otherworld making the burden off ssj less on Goku body, that made him able to push ssj beyond its limits and go to ssj3. If it weren't for these reasons they might have been more relative to each other
I definitely agree with that plus the training in yardrat that Goku had gave him a big advantage over Vegeta as we seen how far it pushed him in super in the Moro arc
Like to add that Goku fought way more stronger opponents than Vegeta since he was a child. He ended up gaining knowledge and different methods of training. I also noticed Vegeta tends to over do it when training while Goku properly rest his body before training more.
I never understood why people use these examples to say that Goku had advantages over Vegeta and was never actually just better then him when in the cell arc before either go into the hyperbolic time chamber Goku and Vegeta are around the same strength(you could even argue Vegeta was a little stronger) yet Goku still comes out stronger. So we have an example of Goku and Vegeta going through the exact same training for a similar amount of time(and keep in mind Vegeta had a stronger sparring partner for a bit as Trunks was stronger then Gohan going in but Gohan surpassed him later)yet Goku comes out superior, so this notion that Goku and Vegeta would be equals if it wasn’t for external factors that aided Goku I don’t agree with because we’ve seen Goku still be stronger then Vegeta after they do the exact same training.
@@childishe60 Exactly, Goku had to constantly fight people stronger, faster, better at combat than him or a combination of these since he was a child.
He's used to be the underdog and think outside the box to win, or even train to grow stronger. While Vegeta although he knew people stronger than him, he almost never or never fought someone stronger than him until goku on earth.
@@Jasecapo Here's my view on the matter.
People often claim that Goku is more "naturally talented" then Vegeta is. Even the games for some reason try to pass this idea off from time to time (Kakarot tried to pass this idea off in DLC 1 but in the EOZ DLC they actually solidified Goku and Vegeta's rivalry nicely).
But, Goku has had every external advantage over Vegeta in a way. He was *raised* by martial arts experts his entire early life, learning very important lessons from Master Roshi early on. From Popo and Kami, and he had rivals *not on Vegeta's level of obsession of course* to help push him further and further.
Vegeta, on the other hand, was born far stronger then Goku, and more then likely would have remained far stronger had Raditz never forced Goku into the otherworld and introduced threats of ridiculous levels of strength to the Earth. Forcing the Z fighters to adapt faster then they ever had before.
After Goku beat Raditz, he got training from King Kai. So at this point, Goku has had training from like, 4 godly beings and an Immortal martial arts master.
What did Vegeta have?
Nappa...that was it. The Frieza Force hardly saw themselves as martial arts masters, they were brutal pirates that believed small power level jumps (like 18k to 24k) were insane leaps of power. Vegeta growing up never had any rivals like Goku did, his biggest obstacle was Frieza, Zarbon and Dodoria, and for most of his life they were stagnant walls of insurmountable power.
Meanwhile Raditz and Nappa were too weak and submissive to offer him any challenge. No one trained him properly, and yet he still turned out as strong and as gifted as he did.
So Goku has the knowledge, the training, the mindset, and the experience of a martial arts expert on his side when it comes to training. Vegeta, all he knows about training is "push a saiyans body to near death then heal". He trained in a far less healthy way then Goku rid because Goku was taught by humans and God's *how* to train, while Vegeta always did it on his own.
In DB Super, they're pretty much on par aside from their top forms now. With Vegeta even being able to beat out Goku one-on-one when in the same form. Vegeta being trained by Whis caused him to grow leaps and bounds, he didn't even have to do the ssj God ritual to achieve God ki. They also train *together*, that's not something they ever did in Z.
Damn, I came into the video feeling skeptical but you really cooked.
They only become rivals when Vegeta begins to properly train with a teacher in Whis. He even gets the base on base victory vs Goku in Dragon Ball Super Hero Fulfilling his desire to defeat Goku.
Which is cap cause no one in any actual fight ever stays in base
@@santi_super_stunts2573at that point he also had ultra ego though which is probably stronger than mui
@@santi_super_stunts2573 which is why Whis made them stay in base because transformations only multiply your base power anyway so why bother fighting at x2000 buff when you can just take the x2000 out.
Ultra ego is weak as hell. Vegeta couldn't keep up with Gas in ultra ego so Goku would clap Vegeta
@@starslight-x3o not true necessarily, just because u have a base of 2 let’s say and I have a base of 1 but your best multiplier is only a 2x but mine is a times 5 multiplier , I get the higher one, and in dragon ball no one ever fights base to base that’s just asking to lose.
This might be my favorite video from u.
I always thought Frieza was more Gokus rival. He actually surpassed Goku in strength multiple times
@@dtylor3680 literally so did vegeta…piccolo even stated this in the android saga
nah freeza was an enemy - just like Vegeta. then he dies,get alive just to kill goku again, dies again. i would say he start being a rival from dbs broly.
7:54 in particular, vegeta's power at the time is higher than goku's base power level amplified by kaioken x2. 250,000 might be too low, but I was realizing that Vegeta's martial arts skill is already great deal above Freeza by this point, and that miiight add up that he was managing to keep up while less than half Freeza's full strength if Freeza is holding back. At max, Vegeta's power level is 400,000, as there is some degree of Freeza not giving it his all, but is likely 350,000 for those who want to theorize deeper. This is also just about the threshold to deal with Kaioken x4 Goku before his own incoming zenkai overshadows all of Vegeta's.
“Damn you, Kakarot. Always one step ahead…”
Yeah, damn near literally & figuratively.
It wasn't really a rivalry because Goku never focused on trying to surpass Vegeta. He kind of ignores him and trained for himself, while Vegeta was the one always focusing on Goku. If Vegeta died or never came back, Goku would have moved on to whatever the next opponent was and forget about him. It was Vegeta chasing after Goku. As opposed to Goku's rivalry with Freeza in Super comes off more as a back and fourth where they are both interested in each other. Vegeta was mostly on the side. Though it might justify why Vegeta was so desperate to fight Goku again in the Buu arc... but apart from enjoying his fights with Vegeta, Goku doesn't really care that much about him the same way. He's never in a position after their first fight where he is below Vegeta and wanting to surpass him.
Where as Naruto and Sasuke were a better rivalry dynamic because there were times early on where they were both aware of each other's signs of potential a bit more closely. Sasuke and Naruto were jealous of each other at some points, and Sasuke did acknowledge Naruto working harder than Sakura in part 1, despite his dismissal of him generally. Naruto and Sasuke were a bit more literal rivals to me, but Goku and Vegeta... not really, its a bit more one-sided but kind of worked more in favor of Vegeta's characterization. Goku was more of an unattainable peak for himself and only a rivalry in Vegeta's mind who was his polar opposite in ambition and character.
While Goku cared more about improving himself which made him pure hearted (as in clear of thought and singular in his aims), because his mind and motive was only about pushing himself and just that. He was never jealous of other characters or bitter. He was always just inspired by people he fought, even if they were villains. He even complements Freeza.
Fun fact: Akira Toriyama wanted to kill Vegeta off in the Namek Saga, but the fans wanted him back.
I read somewhere that Toriyama didn’t care for Vegeta at first and favored Piccolo over him. Wonder how the series would have went during the Cell and Majin saga without Vegeta.
@@childishe60it would’ve just been Majin piccolo and a rematch in one of the games they actually to actually go through a timeline like that
No cap?
Me waiting for the fun fact in this "fun fact"💀
Fun fact, Kondo is the one that made AT sit down when he peed. Fans got Vegeta killed in a petty act of spite. He couldn’t actually remove him, but he could punish for those letters.
Exactly Goku never saw Vegeta as a rival after Namek Saga especially in DBZ it wasn’t until buu saga he threw a temper tantrum in Goku face that made him realise
Yeah goku seems vegeta like a "little brother rival" 😂
@@LuisGuillermoWongVelez well put it towards it this way Goku respects Vegeta but he considers everyone a rival
As a Vegeta fan this was a difficult video
Facts are difficult to swallow.
This is why I've dropped dragonball its just the Goku show no one is allowed to get the win except Goku my favorite character was Vegeta but after he lost to Moro when it seemed like Vegeta would finally win for once I dropped the series right then and there im not interested in watching Vegeta get his ass beat just so it can make Goku look good and it makes the show less exciting when you know that Goku will get the win somewhere at the end like he has every single time before! Dragonball is trash
This video was ass
@@nerdy_boy2785His analysis of the Saiyan Arc is dead wrong, isn’t fact based at all. Vegeta was still utterly superior to Goku in that fight, he would have lost in a big way had several other things not happened in his favor, namely his friends intervening.
@@immortal5812He was saying that goku was stronger than vegeta and showed the manga panel of him using kaioken, after goku used kaioken x3 he definitely was stronger than vegeta. Obviously base goku in the saiyan saga wasn’t as good as vegeta
The switch to the more rival like and competitive nature in Super actually makes since due to it being after his Buu saga development. He genuinely accepts his ties to his family and allows that to fuel him further. He also adopts Goku's mentality with fighting to improve more than always win.
I always did think that Piccolo was more of Goku's rival, you know, before being eclipsed in strength. But Goku and Piccolo were just as heavily invested in the rivalry. In fact, Goku had a stronger rivalry with Tien after his lost in the 22nd Budokai.
Not trying to downplay the share symbolic nature of Goku and Vegeta dynamic, but rivals kind of rang hallow. At least in Z.
I feel like piccolo shoulda been stronger this whole time. He’s been training just as hard as vegeta and goku and doesn’t take a day off plus looks after all of their kids in the meantime. He’s lowkey the undisputed goat post og DB
Gokou was unintentionally being a savage at the beginning towards Vegeta. He knows, and didn’t brag, which might be worse, it’s just truth he’s saying.
In martial arts (not that MMA bs lol) we're taught to not chase a person that beats u in a fight but to improve yourself as once u arrive to the side of the fence of the guy you're chasing he's already gone and further up ahead. DBZ showcased this well.
There you glad soms people get it
MMA being bs is crazy 💀
mma bs?😂😂 so you’re a dancer not a fighter
@@ThePunishedPollo Mf prolly mastered the “leaping badger style” or sum shit 😭🤷🏾♂️
to defend MMA real quick im sure that mindset is very much there for some competent MMA practicers but it feels like majority of them are meatheads
Great video, funny how this came up because I was joking with my cousin saying that vegeta's rival is actually piccolo lol.
Edit: Piccolo was on par with vegeta on namek, the Android saga, and cell games where both were fighting the cell juniors and Piccolo was taking on 4 of them and holding his own. Now with his orange piccolo transformation they're relative to each other. Movies also imply this.
I mean I would say they’re definitely rivals. It may not be in the sense where they’re both always equal in power but they’re always competing with each other to be the strongest possible. I mean that’s the definition of a rival
No they aren't they aren't always competing to be the strongest possible. Goku wants to be stronger not the strongest he trains Gohan to be stronger than him and trains Goten & Trunks to create someone stronger than him. That IS NOT true.
@@sixfromtokyo goku trained for namek because of his loss to vegeta. Vegeta was his reference point the entire way there or at least for most of it. Goku training gohan and the kids to be stronger has nothing to do with how he sees vegeta. He doesn’t obsess over it like vegeta does but that doesn’t mean he never saw him as a rival. When he found out he was up against vegeta in the tournament in buu he was excited because he knew he’d be the best fight he could get out of everyone there
They're not rivals. Vegeta is butthurt he's weaker than Goku and Goku doesn't care about being stronger than Vegeta.
@@hybridsaiyan22Goku trained for Frieza tbh😂
@@hybridsaiyan22 Thing is, Goku never trained specifically for Vegeta after their first squabble. He trains to challenge himself, become stronger and protect his family and friends. His training on his way to Names is as much if not more for himself and for Frieza as it's for the case he might face off with Vegeta again.
Without Goku, Vegeta would lose all motivation. Goku is simply his motivator. Even when Gohan surpassed them both, Vegeta never really cared. He acknowledged it, but doesn't see Gohan as his equal.
Goku is the only pure Saiyan left at the time too!
The reason Goku and Vegeta are rivals in Super and not Z is because Vegeta in Super fights Kakarot to better himself, to surpass his previous limits. Goku is perfectly okay with this and welcomes the challenge. Vegeta in Z just wanted to beat Kakarot to heal his wounded ego, which is why Goku never gave Vegeta the time of day until he was forced to, because he knew kicking Vegeta's ass a second time would only exacerbate the issue.
To be fair there was never a time for a rematch since they were constantly training for a new threat hell Vegeta saved goku from 19 just so he could have his chance to fight him.
Hmmm that's not entirely true in Z. Goku was still ready to fight Vegets whenever they had the chance. Hell in the world tournament he was looking forward to it. Vegeta was the massive aggressor at the end of the day though.
Super is the same thing , but to a lesser extent on aggression but Vegeta still has Goku on his mind, where Goku doesn't have a singular person in mind. Hell, he's never expressed Beerus being on his mind despite losing to him.
@@UnifiedEntityGoku did not pay attention to Vegeta in Cell Saga and in Buu saga he was more interested in piccolo fight with the Kai then his own fight with Vegeta
I didn't expect to agree but goddammit Six, you're making too much sense. Again!
We need more db vids 🙏
Rivals to me is 2 guys where one is always slightly ahead than the other and they fuel eachothers growth through competition in the rivalry
I'd rather be Goku than Vegeta any day.
@@SpammytheHedgehog too bad no one wants to be you irl 🤣
I’d rather be married to the richest woman on the planet then living in the middle of nowhere with no income 😭
@@drich008 This. Outside of Ls taken Vegeta has a waaay better life
@@TruDragonz vegeta is technically 3-0 vs Goku 2-0 if you only want to count Z 🤷
@ollyjhb3872 yea I mean Ls against everyone else lol
8:37 i often wondered if Goku being able to sense the fight between Vegeta and Freeza was a factor in how strong he's gotten at that time.
I can understand the idea that the way Goku trained played a role in his zenkai boost but it would be cool if him sensing that fight helped his boost grow higher as the power levels increased.
This is so true. We've been conditioned to think that they were always rivals but Goku was always ahead with Vegeta competing to surpass him instead lol.
He wasnt what Kind of mental gymnastics do you have to BE ON to think that Goku won the First Fight Goku lost massively He was clearly outmatched IT took the whole z Gang jumping him for Goku and Friends to win
@@laisphinto6372 well they wearnt rivals at the time.
@@Trap_senpai_that was the beginning of their rivalry what are you talking about
@@316thaking and moving on so on and so forth Goku was always ahead of Vegeta. You're arguing and attempting to make a point for nothing RN bruh lol
@@Trap_senpai_
Goku was always ahead of vegeta?
Vegeta was stronger than goku from the saiyan saga all the way to the middle of the namek saga.
He got surpassed but surpassed Goku again when he fights frieza.
Goku would then be stronger until the android saga where vegeta would be stronger than him until the cell saga.
Goku would be stronger until the RoF arc where vegeta would be stronger than him until the late Goku black arc.
Goku didn’t surpass vegeta in the universe 6 tournament because although he could use blue kaioken, it would also kill him.
This rivalry of them surpassing each would continue
Awesome video man, I love how you usdd the manga for reference. The closest thing Goku had to a 5rue rival was Piccolo. Demon King Piccolo is responsible for the deaths of everyone he held dear, and he trained so hard and grew into a man to face off against Picxolo Jr in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, but it's never one sided. They're both willing to put aside their rivaltry to face Raditz, and by the tome Piccolo reforms he becomes like the brother Goku never had. I love their dynamic and they're super underrated compared to Golu and Vegeta
Six casually done disrespected Vegeta and his whole fan base..........and Im here for it!
Doesn’t that make you more toxic?
@@Keef220D Welcome to the internet, kid!
@@wijinsama im in my 20s 😐
I don’t know about all that, but Vegeta is undefeated against Goku, my IESLB junior in DB.
Goku isn’t Vegeta’s rival. He humbled him and is his motivation to be better.
Goku is always one step ahead
fire video, you gotta get on making DBZ videos
vegeta and goku are rivals because he was stronger than him at multiple parts of the show
Goku has Krillin spare Vegeta for the express purpose of fighting him again in the future, thats what establishes the rivalry.
1v1 Vegeta ain't never lost to Goku though
He woula lost the second one if Goku didn't have the one day restriction and could go all out
@@sixfromtokyo Ifs and buts were like candy and nuts, we would all have a Merry Christmas 🤷🏾♂️
@@sixfromtokyoI don't know about that, the ssj3 takes alot out of Goku and Vegeta is quite the tactician, he always disses the form for being less than useful it'd be a matter of if Goku could finish the fight before running out of ki
@@sixfromtokyo head canon
@@sixfromtokyowoulda coulda shoulda. The fact remains even discounting that fight goku has canonical never beaten Vegeta in 1v1.
Amazing video, MORE DBZ VIDS PLS
Vegeta always won every encounter they had with each other though lol
that's not what your mom said last night
Bro missed the point
Vegeta would disagree.
Vegeta himself states the L's to Goku lol
@@kzg_veritas12 wdym
Goku lost to Vegeta in the Saiyan sega and wanted Krillen to spare him for a future rematch. It was a rivalry in the beginning.
I really don't get what Vegeta was so mad about, Goku has literally never beaten him he's won twice technically
In the first fight, he was spared by Krillin because Goku told him to spare him and in the second fight, Goku could’ve ended it immediately. If I was vegeta , I’d be pretty mad.
@@peacefuldestroyer2135 so he got jumped and Goku didn't use the useless form... I still don't get it especially when all you have to do against ssj3 is just stall while he drains his energy
@@wwalton how fast do you think ssj3 drains energy lmao it’s stated to be fast but goku is never shown to be forced out of it
@@peacefuldestroyer2135 he was literally forced to power down in the fight with Kid Buu and yeah it's fast but it's not like characters with drastically different levels of strength haven't clashed before ie literally the very first fight with Vegeta and pretty much every fight in the show for the most part but unlike those characters ssj3 has massive power drain
thing is goku had help, or techniques to use. That not a win to Vegeta, a win is going all out and putting your life on the line. That definition for vegeta winning, he probably don't mean to kill Goku anymore but he try to fight him at his best. That why Vegeta always do stuff to annoy Goku at times.
One of the things that really annoyed me about Super was Vegeta still chasing after Goku after the Buu arc where he admitted Goku was better because of his mindset.Goku always pushed for self improvement in very healthy ways where if he lost a fight he would ask for help and never minded getting training from others even if they were considered weaker then him(like staying behind on yardrat to learn instant transmission),while Vegeta would always get angry and go brood in the rain
They had such a great moment when Vegeta finally asked someone else to train him with Wis but they turned the whole moment into a big joke which kinda is the overall feeling I get from Super
What's with the glaze in the comments? See a bunch of hating already. I always liked this detail from Z, Goku always moved forward trying to better himself and protect the earth while he had interest in Vegeta once he surpassed him on Namek he never considered Vegeta a true rival. This might be a hot take but I like them being actual rivals in Super because it shows how far Vegeta has come from his Z version that was self destructive with his methods of training and willing to be given power just to maybe catch up with Goku. Now Vegeta has a family he wants to protect and gets stronger not just for himself or to keep up with Goku and is actively trying to make up for the mistakes of the past like in the Moro and Granolah arc. Now he's consistently equal to Goku and even beat him in a fair 1v1 in the Super Hero arc although it was close.
The hate is cause Vegeta fans have short man syndrome lol
Vegeta is still behind Goku. If Goku were to take a fight serious now, Vegeta would get clapped faster than he could think
@@Christo_Trismegistus That makes no sense considering again Vegeta won their fair 1v1 in their base forms in dragon ball super super hero and in the Granolah arc it was shown they were basically equal throughout the arc once Vegeta gained Ultra Ego. The fact Vegeta can barely beat Goku in base means even if they go to their strongest forms there isn't gonna a significant strength difference if there was it would be miniscule certainly not to the point Vegeta would lose faster than he could think as you claim.
I agree. While Goku doesn't get stronger to purposely one up Vegeta but at the same time the majority of rivalries in anime in general ALWAYS happen even if the MC isn't active in it (Bakugo with Deku, Hiei with Yusuke, Grimmjow with Ichigo, etc).
Another thing is that Vegeta's ongoing rivalry makes sense since in Z, Vegeta had been constantly competitive with Goku for the sake of his wounded pride. In the present he's still competitive with Goku but it's for the sake bettering himself and surpassing his limits. The exact reason for Goku always training and why he's always ahead. It's because he was able to let go of trying regain honor for his ego that he's able to grow more as a fighter which is why they're now relative in strength.
@@zynergx6973 I haven't watched Yu Yu Hakusho so I can speak on that but Deku and Ichigo are active in their rivalries. Deku has multiple fights with Bakugo to show how far he's grown and that he won't give up his dream of becoming the number 1 hero and he constantly thinks about how to beat Bakugo or understands him so well he predict him a lot. Ichigo trained throughout the arrancar arc to get his run back with Grimmjow, instead of taking Orehime immediately and leaving he stays to fight Grimmjow and he's even called out for it and while denied it at first he admits that deep down he came just to fight Grimmjow. But yeah I agree with everything else you said.
In Z and as vegeta fan (after his growth) I agree with this analysis good shit king
I'd argue that to this day, the fight for the edge was always about the idiosyncrasies in their code. Vegeta embarked upon the path to destruction and as we see it's an exceptionally difficult state to maintain. Essentially the will to be evil, rely on your own ideology alone, and bear no glaring low points. Incredibly difficult. You're shutting off any and all lifelines to end as a byword
Meanwhile Goku's approach to serenity affords him certain privileges which contribute to chief unlocks. This is the principal behind communion. In the upheaval of community life, people offer up gifts to enable the would be champion towards progress out of respect for his cause. This was Roshi's handoff to Tien and it paid off a number of times
In the matrix, the keymaker opens doors that only he has access to in order to assist in the severity of Neo's cause. Even at the risk of his own life
These unlocks are the "oh I have just the thing" which marks a celebration of cause. This is Roshi knowing just the right words to motivate Goku up the mountain or Kame understanding elements about the void which links our world and the beyond. A literal LIFETIME to committing himself to the balance to be allowed to vouch to the very bureaucratic Yemma that Goku deserves to have a body in the afterlife
This sponsorship element is crucial to Goku's growth and ability to materialize will for a grander cause. So much so that Vegeta pounced on the opportunity to train under the condition of becoming the next god of destruction. There was nothing dubious to Whis conditions either as he is bound to uphold universal laws
Whis knows that the supreme Kai is a vulnerable agent and would ensure that Beerus gets replaced without a fraction of a delay. He understands the pressures of darkness leading to the eventuality of Majin and the like. A god of destruction keeps those motives in check. Beerus being the lazy figure that he is, represents the lackadaisical merits of his universe and its inhabitants. Crazy powerful when pushed whimsical when trials are absent. A lot like Gohan
Since Vegeta has an insatiable appetite for conquest and struggles with righteousness, he is the perfect candidate for destruction. He has to abide by certain laws to maintain his power, but is willing to dabble in order if it means personal growth. Being motivated by Goku as that thorn in his side is a plus that Whis shamelessly exploits as he's well aware of Goku's affinity for coloring within the lines and achieving those unlocks. This will invariably spurn Vegeta into dutiful commitment to form where Whis can teach him the boundaries of destructive merit
Remember, the chessboard has both black and white tiles. Good and evil and both on the playing field of chaos and order
11:38 You had Goku hooked when you said "4 grades of steak" 😂
UA-camrs just make videos about anything
Ayyy i was waiting for this video. Speak yo shit 😤
Imagine if Vegeta was sent to Earth and raised by Grandpa Gohan instead of Goku/Kakarot.
Dragon ball Sai is a fan manga that explores that idea
He would conquer the planet
"Grandpa" Gohan wouldn't get to pull his Diddy antics with Vegeta (unlike with Gokek). The prince wipes him and the rest of the planet. Or are we talking with him as a baby (instead of the age he would have been in canon at the time of Gokek's arrival)? He's still merc GROOMhan. Or should we assume he just happens to have his savagery wiped out by an alleged "accident", too? With his natural power and prodigious ability to make his own moves, I'm unsure he would even find himself encountering much less choosing to be taught by those teachers at all.
I agree that Goku doesn't get stronger to purposely one up Vegeta but at the same time the majority of rivalries in anime in general ALWAYS happen even if the MC isn't active in it (Bakugo with Deku, Hiei with Yusuke, Grimmjow with Ichigo, etc).
Another thing is that Vegeta's ongoing rivalry makes sense since in Z, Vegeta had been constantly competitive with Goku for the sake of his wounded pride. In the present he's still competitive with Goku but it's for the sake bettering himself and surpassing his limits. The exact reason for Goku always training and why he's always ahead. It's because he was able to let go of trying regain honor for his ego that he's able to grow more as a fighter which is why they're now relative in strength.
U have to remember that Dragon Ball GT did the same thing with ssj4 goku and vegeta were relative in power at the end only difference is gt didn’t have vegeta yapping about being superior to goku
Vegeta still beat Goku in their fights in DBZ don’t lie buddy
Facts
He beat Goku once...and that was it. Vegeta never wanted them problems since
I mean the same vegeta dont consider them like "wins" 😂
After watching the full video I understand that not a lot of people understand Vegeta’s character and motives and how they evolve and shift
This why Goatku clears Bumgeta
Goku is a fuckin loser, Wegeta all day everyday
I think that it’s fitting for them to actually become narrative rivals in super because it reflects how Vegeta’s philosophy about fighting and strength have changed
vegeta fans are going insane in the comments🤣🤣🤣
Fr what’s up with them. Why are you denying the good writing Vegeta has.
I reached a point where I realized that Vegeta was never a rival of Goku. This video breaks down completely why he never was.
This is a bad take bro, Goku vs Vegeta is the OG rivalry to all these other rivalries. They’ve been beefing for decade and even the newest episode of Daima recycled the sparing match from the beginning of the Super Broly movie. They can’t stop pitting these two against each other, just because you can’t recognize it doesn’t mean everyone else does lol 😂 Goku and Vegeta not rivals? That’s rich😂😂
It's not rivals when Vegeta is constantly taking L's almost every time and Goku always saving the day. There has been very few times where Vegeta was the one to save everyone or even win a fight. It's not Sasuke and Naruto. Goku can bust Vegeta anytime he wants
Cope, Daima don't recycled the sparing match from the beginning of the Super Broly movie
@@Christo_Trismegistus Cope, Goku and Vegeta are rivals
Can you read in DBZ they weren’t in DBS they are because of how bad they butchered Goku Character and just recycle Vegeta
@@Hajime790 no cope. Goku is above Vegeta and always will be.
Goku acknowledged vegeta as his rival end of story
20 seconds ago and no views bro fell off
as far as breathing goes, remember, friezas race doesn't need to breathe. it's how they are able to exist in the vacuum of space.
Vegeta the typa dude to never give you a rematch after beating you once
>proceeds to beat Gokek's ass three more times in canon alone
Hmmm, yes. What's all this now?
@@BigVEE Chill bro just a joke
@@Gr4yKing >just a joke
But enough about JOBalot.
Six playing with fire but I really do get this, one of my beefs with how much super pushes the rivalry is most of the time I don't even feel like Goku really cares about settling the score with Vegeta anymore ,and most of the interesting stuff that happens with Vegeta doesn't involve Goku
Well said. Goku’s allowed the rivalry to continue, because Goku wanted to maintain some sort of kinship to Vegeta based on their saying lineage. And secretly wanted Vegeta to become a better person. That’s why you have Goku say one-liners in the anime such as so-and-so to our rivalry.
Goku is in the video it’s automatically a 10/10
it’s crazy that the whole namek saga made everyone way more powerful than they ever thought they could be just for the androids to come and wipe them out anyways
We talking Bullshit with this one!!!!🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥
Chill bro 😭 just listen to what I had to say.
@@sixfromtokyo yh I'm just trolling but off the title alone, I was expecting to hear alotta capanese
You often see Vegeta nowadays just secretly rooting for Goku
Bro dying for the views lol
?
What Vegeta doesn’t get is that Goku has been beating people with unimaginable odds since he was a kid in DB but Vegeta comes along into Goku’s life and is the only person who took it this far he’s in denial the entire Z story