I didn't do a very good job on explaining my grade for Orim's Chant. When I called it a "glorified fog" it wasn't because it does the exact same thing as a fog -- it's because it performs similarly. It has an effect that uses up a card and only delays the inevitable. If you're behind when you cast Chant, you're behind after you cast it too. The "no spells" part is pretty far from a time walk too, since your opponent still draws a card, still untaps their lands, still can use abilities. That means all their instants will be online by the time it's your turn, for example. So yeah, it's an F.
I think the people saying it’s way better are thinking about experiences in constructed. That being said, I think the fact that Orim’s Chant can be strong sometimes makes it more like a D.
@@ElPanadero18There are very few cards that are bad 100 percent of the time. Fogs are always Fs, for example. The problem is having a narrow use case, and that’s exactly what the Chant has.
For Sevinne's Reclamation, it's worth noting that there are enough fetchlands in the set (the common ones and the rare KTK ones) that it can easily serve as a ramp spell, at least its non-Flashback version. It's not efficient, and white doesn't really have a dedicated ramp deck, but there are Eldrazi in the set, so it's worth to keep in mind.
Nizzahon is definitely right about orim’s chant. While people think of it as a time walk, they still untap and draw, meaning you are always going down a card and if they have any abilities or instant they can play you’re essentially just holding up a 2 mana fog, which is awful. In constructed it’s used to protect combos, which there generally isnt in limited.
@@NizzahonMagic@NizzahonMagic in this set there are only two cards that fetch basic lands - the rare green free spell and the red mdfc spell (and thats kinda a stretch tbh). Nesting ground allows you to re-adapt stuff in the lategame and its certainly a nive upside on top of the colorless land you need anyway, something that a green deck running enough mana to cast eldrazis are interested into.
The reprint of evoke elementals is likely the mainreason they tried so hard to not ban any of them in modern despite hiw oopressive they are/were in the format
Decree of Justice was Starnheim Unleashed before it could be playable, lol. I remember when it came out in Onslaught, as slow as the game was back then, you still could almost never play it. Orim's chant is NOT a glorified Fog effect, hahah, the first ability is faaaaaaaaaar superior than kicking it. Someone's never been chanted into not being able to play a spell before.
Shrieking drake + energy soul sister + energy alluren = infinite life gain, infinite enters/leaves the battlefield Good luck drafting/cracking these cards together in a pool, but worth remembering I'd say
Thanks for covering all these cards Nizzahon! Even though I don't really play limited, it is hard to keep track of every card of consideration for my Commander decks!
You can almost play Scam in limited turn 1 phyrexian tower, evoke Grief, sacrifice it to the tower for BB, persist to reanimate Grief I really hope some streamer gets it done to them, their reaction would be priceless
The Incubator is still bad since the effect is symmetrical. My opponent played this naming Eldrazi and he basically spent 3 mana and a card to also ramp me.
I agree with Branching Evolution. I personally just am tired of these types of cards. Every set has one now, add MORE counters. Kind of boring and green is strong enough.
@@trentonpeters8589 Duh, that's the point. An effect that's on plenty of cards and isn't exciting. Did you read my comment or just needed to repeat it?
@@Kasigi03 your point is clear. I think I misunderstood the tone of the original message, as if you were complaining about another one of these cards being added to the list of these cards, so I explained that it already was on that list. I like these type of cards, but they don’t need to be in every set, because that makes them less exciting for me tbh
Orim Chant is ao much more than a fog noooooo. Orim Chant on opponent's upkeep or any form of recursion (ignoring infinites which are jank) make it atleast D+
Orim’s chant is definitely unplayable in 99% of limited decks. If the kicker was to draw a card maybe you’re onto something but you’re spending mana and a card to mess up your opponent a little and not remove anything or help you. Maybe it can be a D- but not much higher
Nizzahon is hating on lands again with this bonus sheet. The colorless lands may have very underwhelming effects but the fact that they don't enter tapped in a set with a very heavy colorless theme means that they are AT LEAST a "C".
Can someone explain to me how orims chant works? I thought that it's almost a time walk if I just cast it during my opponents upkeep. But apparently not?
It does work that way, but using up a card on that in Limited isn't worth it very often. It is very far from a time walk. It stops spells and attacks -- but your opponent still draws a card and can still activate abilities. You go down a card for what is pretty close to a fog most of the time. It can be powerful at times for sure, just like fogs -- but it's fairly likely to do nothing, too.
@@MegatronTarantulasyes it includes the opponents upkeep. So essentially, you make an attacker every one of your turns, and when it gets blocked and dies, you make a deathtouch blocker on their turns
Um, urzas incubator is bad because there is not a tribal theme of this set? Helooo? Are you forgetting all the eldrazis that could use some cost reductions?
@@ianhay527 it's not impossible, just depends on how easy to assemble the combo is. A fog with huge upside like that is still a strictly better case and deserves more than an F grade
It will have an awful win rate on 17 lands. Bank on it. It's good in formats that aren't limited, but very bad here. I pinned a comment where I went deeper on what I mean by "glorified fog," FYI.
@@NizzahonMagic how many times have you been playing and just needed to prevent your opponent from doing one thing to win? This is a very common scenario with aggro type decks. Orim's Chant isn't a bomb but it definitely has some utility. Most combos in limited aren't going to win the game outright either, they're usually value oriented engines that grind you down. We'll see though.
What part of Cayth feels red? Why does he have access to red mana? Fabricate appears in every color. Populate is mostly white and green. Proliferate appears more in every other color than red. He has no combat keywords at all, let alone red-aligned ones. Why is he red?
I didn't do a very good job on explaining my grade for Orim's Chant.
When I called it a "glorified fog" it wasn't because it does the exact same thing as a fog -- it's because it performs similarly. It has an effect that uses up a card and only delays the inevitable. If you're behind when you cast Chant, you're behind after you cast it too. The "no spells" part is pretty far from a time walk too, since your opponent still draws a card, still untaps their lands, still can use abilities. That means all their instants will be online by the time it's your turn, for example.
So yeah, it's an F.
I think the people saying it’s way better are thinking about experiences in constructed. That being said, I think the fact that Orim’s Chant can be strong sometimes makes it more like a D.
@@ElPanadero18There are very few cards that are bad 100 percent of the time. Fogs are always Fs, for example. The problem is having a narrow use case, and that’s exactly what the Chant has.
@@NizzahonMagic wasn't the Fog making Spellshaper good in Masques?
Ophiomancer gives you a token in your opponent's upkeep, so almost right away.
Ya, clearly better than Miz realizes. This thing is just a brick wall on the ground starting on turn 3 that also gives you a sac fodder every turn.
it’s an easy A- imo, completely controls the board and virtually always 2 for 1s (barring instant end step removal)
I love to see watermarks on cards, the set they’re originally from is definitely a cool one
same, great context for newer players like me who might’ve not been around for the original releases
im going to make so much fucking money off this pathetic little set
I was happy to see the tempest logo. That is where I started.
Why@@jonbaird8835
For Sevinne's Reclamation, it's worth noting that there are enough fetchlands in the set (the common ones and the rare KTK ones) that it can easily serve as a ramp spell, at least its non-Flashback version. It's not efficient, and white doesn't really have a dedicated ramp deck, but there are Eldrazi in the set, so it's worth to keep in mind.
Nizzahon is definitely right about orim’s chant. While people think of it as a time walk, they still untap and draw, meaning you are always going down a card and if they have any abilities or instant they can play you’re essentially just holding up a 2 mana fog, which is awful. In constructed it’s used to protect combos, which there generally isnt in limited.
Ophiomancer is “each” upkeep, which includes your opponents upkeep.
20:13 You gave build-around C to wastes, surely wastes with added text can get the same
Well, you can search up Wastes with carsd that get basic lands. You can't do that with those.
@@NizzahonMagic@NizzahonMagic in this set there are only two cards that fetch basic lands - the rare green free spell and the red mdfc spell (and thats kinda a stretch tbh).
Nesting ground allows you to re-adapt stuff in the lategame and its certainly a nive upside on top of the colorless land you need anyway, something that a green deck running enough mana to cast eldrazis are interested into.
The reprint of evoke elementals is likely the mainreason they tried so hard to not ban any of them in modern despite hiw oopressive they are/were in the format
Decree of Justice was Starnheim Unleashed before it could be playable, lol. I remember when it came out in Onslaught, as slow as the game was back then, you still could almost never play it.
Orim's chant is NOT a glorified Fog effect, hahah, the first ability is faaaaaaaaaar superior than kicking it. Someone's never been chanted into not being able to play a spell before.
Oh, I have been chanted many times. Especially in Extended in the mid 2000s.
The effect isn't good in Limited and is often fog-like.
DoJ wasn't in onslaught. It was in scourge.
Shrieking drake + energy soul sister + energy alluren = infinite life gain, infinite enters/leaves the battlefield
Good luck drafting/cracking these cards together in a pool, but worth remembering I'd say
Thanks for covering all these cards Nizzahon! Even though I don't really play limited, it is hard to keep track of every card of consideration for my Commander decks!
You can almost play Scam in limited
turn 1
phyrexian tower, evoke Grief, sacrifice it to the tower for BB, persist to reanimate Grief
I really hope some streamer gets it done to them, their reaction would be priceless
Thanks a lot again for all your insight on this Limited format :)
Junk Diver is Tommy Boy.
"D+, OMG, I passed!"
Ulalek will be good in red green. Lots of spawn tokens to help cast him and lost of Eldrazi to do his thing.
Great work with the set review as always, it is greatly appreciated! The only critique i have is that i think you say "these days" to often.
I like how Satya looks like he has strong opinions on Hazy IPAs.
As a primarily brawl player, I'm salivating.
"In a set where there's not even a heavy creature type theme"
Eldrazi: Do I mean nothing to you?
The Incubator is still bad since the effect is symmetrical. My opponent played this naming Eldrazi and he basically spent 3 mana and a card to also ramp me.
I agree with Branching Evolution. I personally just am tired of these types of cards. Every set has one now, add MORE counters. Kind of boring and green is strong enough.
Branching evolutions been around for ages it’s not like it’s a new thing
@@trentonpeters8589 Duh, that's the point. An effect that's on plenty of cards and isn't exciting. Did you read my comment or just needed to repeat it?
@@Kasigi03i think they moreso meant, it’s a reprint, it isn’t new, but it just wasn’t modern legal yet and now it is
@@romyjane17 I know it is. The point being, these cards are boring. I don't know how I could have been more clearer.
@@Kasigi03 your point is clear. I think I misunderstood the tone of the original message, as if you were complaining about another one of these cards being added to the list of these cards, so I explained that it already was on that list. I like these type of cards, but they don’t need to be in every set, because that makes them less exciting for me tbh
Orims chant is a monster early game. If you're winning in early game it's a necessity for W/x builds
Not in Limited. If you're winning early game it's usually better to play another creature instead of Chanting.
@@NizzahonMagic I'd rather my opponent be stalled. A single usage is fine. Consecutive is back breaking.
@SacUpYall Using it twice in this Limited format is challenging. And maybe impossible. We clearly aren't talking about the same format.
7:32 Dang, blue gets access to graveyard setup now. They get everything. (JK Nizzahon)
Nizz, what's your prediction for the stongest color pair?
Orim Chant is ao much more than a fog noooooo. Orim Chant on opponent's upkeep or any form of recursion (ignoring infinites which are jank) make it atleast D+
I don't think Silence is that good of a limited card either, though.
@draconocor1309 not very good. Not F tier though.
Orim’s chant is definitely unplayable in 99% of limited decks. If the kicker was to draw a card maybe you’re onto something but you’re spending mana and a card to mess up your opponent a little and not remove anything or help you. Maybe it can be a D- but not much higher
Nizzahon is hating on lands again with this bonus sheet. The colorless lands may have very underwhelming effects but the fact that they don't enter tapped in a set with a very heavy colorless theme means that they are AT LEAST a "C".
Can someone explain to me how orims chant works? I thought that it's almost a time walk if I just cast it during my opponents upkeep. But apparently not?
It is essentially a time walk. The opponent can still play lands and activate abilities, though.
Sort of, opponent can still play instants in response and on your turn, so it’s not 100% time walk. Though an F is wrong
It does work that way, but using up a card on that in Limited isn't worth it very often. It is very far from a time walk.
It stops spells and attacks -- but your opponent still draws a card and can still activate abilities. You go down a card for what is pretty close to a fog most of the time. It can be powerful at times for sure, just like fogs -- but it's fairly likely to do nothing, too.
thanks for the explanation everyone!
I totally hate it that they dont include special guests in arena boosters.
They do. Or at least, they have in the past.
@@NizzahonMagic no they dont. In draft yeah but not when you open boosters
Description says "mono-black"
This man just gave Orim's Chant an F and instantly pissed off everyone who played Magic before 2005 then dropped the mic and walked off stage.
Hopefully the people who played then (which includes me) realize that it is a bad Limited card since it was back in Invasion Block too.
Good vid, I subscribed
Thanks for the sub. Now watch the rest of the set review! Haha
you can pre order modern horizons 3 with a reverse mortgage.
So many oldies-but-goldies getting reprints or adaptations. But most of them aren't as good in a Limited draft as Block or Standard.
I've been waiting😉
For this to release
For a girl like you (by Foreigner)
So long to be where I'm going in the sunshine if you love (Cream)
I think you misread ophiomancer
in what way? does "each upkeep" include the opponent's not just yours, or something else?
@@MegatronTarantulasyes it includes the opponents upkeep. So essentially, you make an attacker every one of your turns, and when it gets blocked and dies, you make a deathtouch blocker on their turns
Some ridiculously powerful cards in this one. Modern has become a rotating format it appears, lol.
Has been since MH1 I'm afraid
Yay
Um, urzas incubator is bad because there is not a tribal theme of this set? Helooo? Are you forgetting all the eldrazis that could use some cost reductions?
Nice
Love this game, hate these reprints
Can't believe Orim's Chant got an F. It is a glorified fog but it's the best fog effect in the game since it can stall a combo deck too.
Yeah but when do people play consistent combos in limited?
@@ianhay527 it's not impossible, just depends on how easy to assemble the combo is. A fog with huge upside like that is still a strictly better case and deserves more than an F grade
It will have an awful win rate on 17 lands. Bank on it.
It's good in formats that aren't limited, but very bad here. I pinned a comment where I went deeper on what I mean by "glorified fog," FYI.
@@NizzahonMagic how many times have you been playing and just needed to prevent your opponent from doing one thing to win? This is a very common scenario with aggro type decks. Orim's Chant isn't a bomb but it definitely has some utility. Most combos in limited aren't going to win the game outright either, they're usually value oriented engines that grind you down. We'll see though.
@@NizzahonMagic the speed of the format will determine how good the Chant will be. It won't be better than a C though.
What part of Cayth feels red? Why does he have access to red mana? Fabricate appears in every color. Populate is mostly white and green. Proliferate appears more in every other color than red. He has no combat keywords at all, let alone red-aligned ones. Why is he red?
cuz she's a dwarf
Because it's an EDH card.
@@AkukAkuku I do get that. But even so, why didn’t they just like slap Haste or something on him?
@@Waffletigercat They don't need to, because EDH players will still eat it up.
remember when booster boxes were $96
bro says tutoring up Solitude or Grief is low value RE: Recruiter of the Guard
Why would I mention special guests as tutor targets in a video about Limited?
@@NizzahonMagicthe old bonus sheet mythic into special guest line that we see all the time in limited!
im going to make so much f&%$ing money off this pathetic set