One should first study the issue, IMRO is a Bulgarian organization, it is fighting for accession to Bulgaria, this is also recognized by North Macedonian historians. You are poisoned by Yugoslav propaganda, you must know that Bulgaria was part of the USSR, there is no neo-Osmanism there.
They are no more "Macedonians" than they are "Athenians". Their foreign apologists are lying propagandists that, unambigiously, engaged in communist style ethnic engineering. The Greek hating liars lost the argument the second the frauds tries to narrate themselves into apparently antihellenic founders of the Hellenistic period which defies even basic common sense.
@@BalkanOdyssey_ Serves you well when spreading pseudohistory. So? Macedonians "non-Greek" eh? Thus Olympic Games accepted barbarians from a small obscure failing non-Greek state. LOL! Good luck with that Slav.
@@dinos9607 It's like you are trying to remain ignorant. In order to participate in the Olympic games, Alexander the I needed to "prove" his "Greek ancestry" to the ancient Greeks, now, why would he, as a "Greek", needed to prove something like that? Later he was named "Phihellene", the name says it all.
@@87degreez Υour ignorance is phenomenal Slav because what you are telling us here is that a Greek living in Persepolis, in the Persian Empire could participate in the Olympic Games after proving his Greek ancestry. To understand how moronic is what you said we only need to remind you that the law at the Olympic Games was to be Greek-blooded athlete representing Greek-blooded state. That was it Had Macedonians been non-Greek he would not had been let to even travel at Olympia let alone become a participant. The accusation against Alexander I was a p e r s o n a l accusation against him, linked with the story of him forced-marrying his sister to a Persian general to avoid the scandal of him having murdered the whole Persian Embassy earlier. While Herodotus does not elaborate, his detractors apparently accused him of being from a family that does intermarrriages with barbarians and hence when he was called he just explained the lineage of his family - he didn't need to explain anything about Macedonians because they were known as Greeks and as nothing else. To be noted we do have Macedonian athletes coming down later on and Philip had sent a team as well and doing so at a time the Macedonian kingdom was on the brink of collapse. The mere notion that a weak failing barbaric kingdom would be sending teams at Olympia is simply ludicrous. I know you don't care about history but only to satisfy your complexes of inferiority towards Greeks and Greek history. It may pain you in your *ss but the historical facts are historical facts :they were Greeks. No amount of cries from your part will change that.
All I know as a bulgarian when I visited Macedonia, all the normal people outside of the internet were friendly and even happy when we said where we were from. Either we can fight about historical borders and argue about ”who macedonians really are” or we can just live in peace and appreciate that we have shared culture and history. Its not that serious.
Something I feel is also important to add to the discussion, as a Bulgarian, is how poigniant the effect of Macedonian refugee crisis to Bulgaria has been in the interwar period. More or less every fourth Bulgarian can say that he's had ancestors from Macedonia (myself included) which very much muddles the waters of drawing the line, because many Bulgarians feel the connection - songs, culture, habits, ideology, even if they came from there, have become just as much a part of "here" due to how many of us descend from Macedonia. Most of them also became city-dwellers in a time most people lived in villages, became societally influential in a short period, etc. That's a topic in and of itself and I'd jot it down somewhere, if given the time, but this came to mind.
"Ancient allegations that the Macedonians were non-Greek all had their origin in Athens at the time of the struggle with Philip II. Then as now, political struggle created the prejudice. The orator Aeschines once even found it necessary, to counteract the prejudice vigorously fomented by his opponents, to defend Philip on this issue and describe him at a meeting of the Athenian Popular Assembly as being 'ENTIRELY GREEK'. Demosthenes' allegations were lent an appearance of credibility by the fact, apparent to every observer, that the life-style of the Macedonians, being determined by specific geographical and historical conditions, was different to that of a Greek city-state. This alien way of life was, however, common to western Greeks of Epirus, Akarnania and Aitolia, as well as to the Macedonians, and THEIR FUNDAMENTAL GREEK NATIONALITY WAS NEVER DOUBTED. Only as a consequence of the political disagreement with Macedonia was the issue raised at all." Errington 1994, p. 4:Errington, Malcolm (1994). A History of Macedonia. Barnes Noble.
This is politics like today some American Politicians accuse others of being un-American this doesn't mean a Japanese for instance will claim those Americans were or are Japanese
As a bulgarian, im sure this video will not disappoint. You gotta see it to believe it - some of our historians claim Macedonia was invented wholesale by the Bulgarian communists after ww2. Not even joking. Not even like a 50/50 split with the Serbs, no, some communists went and said "let there be Macedonia" and so it was.
Well, that is what happened more or less. Prior to WWII it was all about Bulgaria trying to invade Greece and steal the region called Macedonia. After WWII Tito used that against Bulgarians and rebranded those Bulgarian-for-the-most lands as "Macedonia". That is what happened.
@@dinos9607 The bulgarians don't need to "STEAL" Macedonia as it was theirs- there are colossal amount of statistical and ethnographic data from that time that shows bulgarians as majority.
Still the Northern Macedonian aren't even related to the Hellenic Macedonian Northern Greeks, why don't they change their names to Panonia since it was the name of the territory of modern day North Macedonia?
Well why would we change our name to Panonia? When our people have been calling themselves Macedonians since the 1800's and how come are we related to the Panonians but not to the Macedonians? Also Demosten an ancient greek philosopher called the Macedonians barbars not greek.
"Greeks, Armenians, Jews, Persians, Chinese and Japanese could be cited as examples of ethnic continuity, since, despite massive cultural changes over the centuries, certain key identifying components-name, language, customs, religious community and territorial association-were broadly maintained and reproduced for millennia.“ Anthony D Smith 2003, Chosen Peoples: Sacred Sources of National Identity, p. 98
Yeah sure especially Greeks with their genetucs as 30% Bulgarian ,37 % Albanian and rest all source of none European stock 😅😅and name as Greeks since 18th c ,Not a single genuine map with Greece on it before 1829 .
current times greeks have nothing to do with the ancient greeks, if you check the dna, only thing that left as greek is the language, which was something like english is now today, an universal language, doesn't mean if you speak greek now that you come from greek ancestors
@@xaltotunacheron7544 "Comparison between ancient DNA and modern DNA suggest that the Greeks are descendants of the Mycenaeans and that only a small proportion of the DNA in living Greeks come from later migrations to Greece." sciscape/modern-greeks-decedents-ancient-mycenaeans/
@@highevan Every single citizen in the region have part in the DNA that comes from the anceients. Be it 5 or 30% max, but only greeks in here are acting like their are same as anceint and as if they are in charge to who history belongs. You have lot of indian, turkish, phenecian, egpytian dna into the mix as well, why don't you go there and claims how everything belongs to you
I must say, this has been the absolute best video I've seen on UA-cam made on the topic of Macedonians. Hopefully, this gets blessed by the UA-cam algorithm so that Greeks can learn about the acts of ethnic cleansing and colonization of Macedonia after WW1, all done on the basis of nationalism. Macedonia and Macedonians have socialism rooted inside of their identity, be it national or social, even though I might have some opposing ideological views. Thank you for making this video. Hope you cover more on Macedonia (the current state of the country, that is), and I'd be happy to help in an objective manner. Cheers!
@@BalkanOdyssey_u know no hidtory dude sorry these people are slavs and also did the same to greeks whenever they got the chance to do so . They didnt even know who alexander the great was until tito a communist friend of urs told them till then they were bulgsrians serbians and albanians all kixed together. They came to the region when the Byzantines owned it and managed to capture some.lands and started living there they never spoke macedonian or hsd greek culture everyrhing else is simply propaganda.
Last year I wandered around the Balkans for almost a year and all I can say is as long as you have Rakia you can make friends with anyone in the Balkans! Can’t wait to get back , best people on earth 🌍!
He's a Greek hatintg racist liar trying to hide his mistake of recognizng the former Yugoslavians as "Macedonians"... by genocidally trying to rob Greeks of our history and identitry.
@konstantintrehagyrevopoulo972 raki is Greek word Ερχεται απο τα ρακη δηλ τα υπολειματα των σταφυλιων απο αυτα φτιαχνουν ουζο τσιπουρο ρακι Η λεξη ρακοσυλλέκτης για τι μαζευει τα ρακη τα σκουπιδια τα υπολειματα η ειμαι ρακος δηλ τελειωμένος
The best coment! Rakija is just a 'medium' It is about people. People from Balkan are very welcoming and emotional and honest! Macedonians, Greeks, Serbs, Turkish, Bosnians...etc....wonderful people and very welcoming!
@@danielabogdanovska4612 Sure sure "Macedonians' are "honest". Just liike you that engaged in ethnic engineering Slavs into "macedonians" while they try to steal Greek history. Very credible.
When there is a video that even talks about North Macedonia. You just know the comments will always be filled with the nicest and most positive people from the Balkans 🥰🥰
This fellow doesn't even make an effort to distinguish between Macedonians (Greeks) and North Macedonians (Slavs). Talk about failing before you even start.
@@trypovios technically your more wrong, there are no "north macedonians", the country name was changed but not the identity, so the greek macedonians are still either "greek" or "ancient" macedonians while thw "slav" macedonians are just macedonians. Yes there are people that live in the macedonian region in greece, but i doubt thats the issue here
@@leonristovski3595 Quite the opposite, the "Slav" macedonians are just "slavs". Ethnically, they belong to one of many groups that settled in the region about 1,000 years ago. If they want to be true, historical Macedonians, they will need to learn Greek, embrace the Macedonian Greek culture, way of life and swear fealty to the Greek state. Being Macedonian and Graeco-Roman is not a question of ethnicity but a question of embracing Greek culture, language, nationality and loyalty to Hellenism. They can be North Macedonians as a concession, purely to be differentiated to those Macedonians who speak Greek, identify with the legacy and continuity of the ancient Kingdom of Macedonia through Roman times, both in genetic and in cultural heritage as an indispensable piece to the grander puzzle of Hellenism.
Serbians claim that macedonia is old serbia😂because they conquered this lands for a while in 13-14th century,while bulgarians populated macedonia in the 600s and even ohrid was capital of bulgaria in the 900s
"Old Serbia" is a term for all the lands that once were in the medieval serbian kingdom. Macedonia was a part of medieval serbia from the 1280´s till the fall of Serbia in the 1450´s. Also, Slavs populated Macedonia in the 600´s, yes, but not Bulgarians since they were not Slavs in the beginning.
@@Stalker950-l3x if you know bulgaria is found from khan asparuh in 681,but in the same time his brother kuber create an entity in macedonia similar to the one we created in moesia and trace with the local slavs....bulgar tribes devide into 5 parts and asparuh and kuber were two of them ,another create a state in italy,his name was alcek(in total bulgars created 11 states😀😂).....and what we have to say about old bulgaria,wich was almost on all of the peninsula for many centuries,inqluding all of greece,all of today serbia(plus belgrade and branichevo),and half of budapest😀even the hungarians have a saying for the old times and say "since the time of the bulgarians"😀....can we now claim all these territories,as we say bulgaria on 3 seas,when during the reign of tzar simeon the great ,bulgaria was on 3 seas-black,adriatic and aegean ,even albania was part of it and it was 750 000sq.km.....i love serbian people and even i am from vidin on the border,but you have to seek to take what is realy yours,cause macedonia is not....your land are in the west of the balkans close to bosnia where the serbian principalities existed since the 10 century...we have to bury the tomahawk😀and to act as one as equal partners in order to survive in this competative world where the east is about to swallow tiny europe....i m talking the balkans,especially serbia,bulgaria,croatia,slovenia,macedonia and montenegro.....godbless my friend
@@babiyarnazarismaily6207 Yes mate, sounds all great. Bulgaria unfortunately (while being that big) did not really leave behind a deep bossing out of what is now Bulgaria and Macedonia since it did not last for too long in other territories. Present day Serbia was for a short period of time a part of medieval Bulgaria - also yes. Serbia moved totally to the east out of Dalmatia and Bosnia - also yes. But parts of Bulgaria itself (including Sofia) were once part of Serbia too like during stefan nemanja sofia was called "sredec" - in the 14the century Bulgaria was a vasall state of Serbia so it streched basically to 4 seas, from the adriatic coast to the black sea, reaching also the aegean & ionian sea. And nevertheless the bulgarians were not slavic but got assimilated by them and adopted the slavic culture and language. I´m sure we could continue like this for the next 3 days. It does not matter wich country was first here or wich people were "better" - it will not help our miserable countries for a better future. With my comment above I was just talking objectively about the term "old Serbia". I did not mean to offend anyone. Like you said: God bless you my friend, stay healthy & neka te bog cuva!
ALEXANDER’s speech before the battle of Issus: "...We Macedonians are to fight Medes and Persians, nations long steeped in luxury, while we have long been hardened by warlike toils and dangers; and above it will be a fight among free men and slaves. And so far as GREEK will meet GREEK, WE shall not be fighting for like causes; those mercenaries with Dareius will risk their lives for pay, and poor pay too; WE on the contrary shall fight for GREECE and our hearts will be in it". Arrian, "Anabasis of Alexander" Book II, Ch.7, par.4,5 Cambridge, Massachussets, Harvard University Press
Yeah i don't understand what he was trying to say with ancient Macedonia. India literally had Greco bactrian Empire and indo greek Empire cause of Alexander.
@@BD28495 "Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit" ("Greece, although captured, took its savage conqueror captive") - Horace, Book II, epistle 1 Btw, Horace was born in 65 BC.... lol
@@BD28495 "From when Hellen [son of] Deuc[alion] became king of [Phthi]otis and those previously called GRAEKOI were named HELLENES." The Parian Marble, Entry #6 (6th century BC)
I looked at the comments and now I feel like putting my head into a meat grinder. Great video, I have some nitpicks, however this is about as perfect as it gets when it comes to opinions on Macedonia. I admire your ability to continue making good content in the face of reactionary idiots who get their politics from football matches.
Balkan Odyssey is financed by Russia. Some of the benefactors listed are known to work with Russians. Who else will advocate the re-creation of the Balkan Union and communism in the Balkans.
@@cyberpunk_zone Frankly your comment is so impressively dumb that I can't even discern what you're advocating beyond idiotic xenophobia. Going off by your broken English I sincerely hope you're a kid.
THANK YOU so much for this video. Despite this being an extremely relevant topic to me personally, I only started learning anything about it when I was already fully an adult. It has been an incredible struggle for me to piece together the reality of the situation --- I wish you made this video ten years ago for me to watch but I am so glad it exists now so that I can share it with others. Bless you for this.
Congratulation to this very objective video about this very complicated topic. One of the best I ever seen on UA-cam about Macedonia. I almost totally agree with everything you said on this video and really hope, this wonderful Balkan region getting better in the future and work more together with the neighbours to stop the fatal emigration in western Europe and start to help each other.
Balkan Odyssey is financed by Russia. Some of the benefactors listed are known to work with Russians. Who else will advocate the re-creation of the Balkan Union and communism in the Balkans.
@@BalkanOdyssey_ you are NOT objective. You are LEFTIST. Tomasz Kamusella is write an unbelievable antibulgarian text TOTALLY unobjective and full of TOTAL LIES. He speak for Goce Delcev - lets Goce Delcev speak to you: ,,„София 5/1 99 г. Колйо, Всичкитѣ ти писма досега изпратени отъ тебъ и чрѣз тебъ, съмъ получилъ. Отцѣпленията и разцѣпленията никакъ да не ни плашатъ. Действително жалко е, но що можемъ да правимъ, когато си сме българи и всички страдаме отъ една обща болѣсть! Ако тая болѣсть не съществуваше въ нашитѣ прадѣди, отъ които е наследство и въ насъ нѣмаше да попаднатъ подъ грозния скиптъръ на турскитѣ султани. Нашъ, разбира се, дългъ е да не се поддаваме на тая болѣсть, но можемъ ли сѫщото да направимъ и съ другитѣ лица? Пъкъ имаме заето и нѣщо отъ гръцкитѣ болѣсти, а именно - колко глави, толкозъ капитани. Пустата му слава!... Всѣки иска да блѣсне, па не знаѣ фалшътъ и на тоя блѣсъкъ. Вай на тезъ надъ страданията на които всички тѣзъ комедии, дѣтъ се разиграватъ. Колкото за пролѣтъ, почти нищо нѣма опредѣлено, което е много печално, но, вѣрвамъ, и това ще се изясни. Чакамъ пари да купимъ кримкови патрони, та не ще има нужда да се прави смѣнка съ манлихѣрови. Кардашитѣ отъ Перникъ[1] искатъ револверъ, но пари не се сѣщатъ да пратятъ, като че ли ние ги имаме вечъ въ кърпа вързани. Колкото за мартинката, за която получихъ 2 лири турски, искамъ отъ тебъ съвѣтъ: оттукъ да имъ взема или оттамъ ти ще имъ вземешъ? Ако иматѣ тамъ нѣкоя наша, добрѣ ще направишъ да имъ я проводишъ. Кажи на братъ ми да пише писмо дома. Съ поздравъ Гоце P. P. Тукъ приключенитѣ сѫ за Перникъ, отъ които едното е за Дико; отъ когото вчера се получи една телеграма отъ Рила. Узнай дали не е тамъ, че още тамо да се прѣдаде прѣдназначеното за него. На перничани имъ пиша, че мартинката ще я получатъ, а револвера - когато пратятъ пари. Сѫщи“ Действително жалко е, но що можемъ да правимъ, когато си сме българи - from Goce hand and is meaning: It is a pity, but what can we do when we are Bulgarians? You, leftist, the communist CREATED this false nation an EXPENSE of the Great Bulgarian nation and we will fight you to our TOTAL VICTORY like in Doiran: music.ua-cam.com/video/9oBENNkfTaE/v-deo.html
As a greek loved this video, all greeks should watch it! My deepest respect for the slav macedonians who fought alongside the greeks against the fascists and western imperialism. They should have not been expelled from their homeland where they lived alongside greeks. I would only add as a note that ancient macedonians not being universaly considered Greek by the ancient greeks is not really surprising. The greeks of the city states tended to foster a very dim view of all greeks who didnt share in their institutions. There were greek peoples much closer to the south that were considered half barbarian simply because they organized their societies in a tribal way instead of polis institutions. In other words it is sort of a trend coming from the well educated polis dwellers who wrote all the books, and speeches and histories which survive to this day.
That is true, but the evidence that does exist beyond the commentary of intellectuals is definitely inconclusive. See the very short book "Before Alexander: Constructing Early Macedonia" by Eugene Borza for a summary of why it's inconclusive and also why it doesn't matter.
Today you can still find many Macedonians alive who have been deported from their homelands in Aegean Macedonia when they were children. Such is the case with my friend's grandmother, who was deported from the city of Drama. First her and her family escaped to Plovdiv, where they lived in a refugee camp, and then went to Yugoslavia, where they settled.
@@DacLMK I hope one day the greek government and society at large will recognize the crimes of the past and alter its policy towards slav macedonians allowing those who were expelled and their descendants to return if they wish with financial help from the greek state.
You for got to mention that the Anatolian Christian Turks settled into southern Macedonia occupied by Greece during the exchange . Ethnic cleansing that Greeks don't want you to know , as Greeks were a minority in Macedonia .
People who were victims of ethnic cleansing coming to find a place of refuge. Don’t compare “Christian Turks “ (correct term now would be Pontic Greeks thank you very much) with fucking Israelis. That’s some schizo shit right there
Ancient Macedonians were Greek Alexander the Great was Greek and he had a pretty good understanding of that as he talked about himself and his fighters as Greek. His whole reason for conquering Persia was to avenge the deaths of the Greeks during the Persian Wars. Modern day Slavic Macedonians have no reason to appropriate the history of ancient Macedonia. Names and territories do not matter but do not try to rewrite history
@@ranojutro426he was. Because of Alexander. India got greco bactrian and indo greek Empires. You ultra nationalist can deny as much you want but it won't change world history. Why don't you ask World about it? I already gave india perspective
Calling us Slavs = contributing to the Macedonian ethnocide & denying our indigenous heritage. Not only that, but also claiming that we have no right to the name Macedonia, the land, nor the history or culture. Speaking Slavic doesn’t make you an ethnic Slav. STOP denying our indigenous Macedonian heritage.
Something ive noticed about balkans eastern Europeans and Russians is that Like them or not they are very straightforward and blunt By no means impolite just very direct And as someone who grew up on western culture its feels like oxygen As someone whos Lebanese it feels like being Prometheus but suddenly being released from zeus People in my country are about as straightforward as a pretzel I swear we should be exclusively exporting spies politician's bankers and insurance brokers
Your videos are very great for understanding the situation in the Balkans more thoroughly. Your marxist and sober analysis is fantastic as always. Though as a small complaint; i'd like for you to bring back the listing of music you used in the background for the video, maybe through like a pastebin link
Thank you! And oops, I always put the music because of copyright primarily, but this time I weirdly missed that. It'll be in the desvription by tommorow.
Balkan Odyssey is financed by Russia. Some of the benefactors listed are known to work with Russians. Who else will advocate the re-creation of the Balkan Union and communism in the Balkans.
So what? Then Macedonians are HELLENES is Hellenes a Roman Name/? The Romans were the continuation of the Greeks they initially adopted the Hellenic Language, Hellenic Religion all was Hellenic in Roman Senate@@janeza382
As an ethnic macedonian whose family immigrated to America i have countless family stories from the times of greek ethnic clensing. Its tragic going back and seeing our old villages burned to the ground during the civil war. The people who survived and moved to the new towns are terrified to speak macedonian. We were told in Kastoria to go to the villages and talk to the people in their own houses because speeking the language in public is dangerous. I made friends with a macedonian resident of the new version of my families historic village. He told us not to go to the local store or they might poison our water for talking with him. He said he knew macedonian but he said he would only speak greek. My grandpa was terrified and never taught me much of his native language, and its sad to go back to my family's home town and they are still scared to speak it. The people are nice, the local priest recognized our family name and told us that our my 4th great grandfather founded the church in the town (there is still a mural of him next to jesus inside) The priest baptized us in the baptismal well theyve been using for centuries, and in which my family has doubtlessly all been baptized in. The church was the only building to survive the civil war. The priest said that we shouldnt go into the ruins of the city above the church. The younger friend that i made said that theyve been taught since they were children that no one should ever set foot on that land again. Even the local pontic greeks that resettled in the village qre nice, but when we mentioned that our family was from here until 1938 they all went silent.
Regarding Macedonian nationalism I work in archaeology and have worked on projects around Bitola. These sites were neolithic to byzantine, but the local connection and passion in the history is overwhelming. They all identify as slavs and know that these historic people werent, but they have so much connection to the history of the land that they are from. If anyone has the biggest connection to this history, it is the people who now have resided on the land for a long while, growing connected to it. This is what should unite people, their shared love for a community and region, looking at its history with admiration no matter what form of "blood" connection they may have with it. To me this is what being Macedonian means, being from or having deep connections with one or more of the Macedonian regions, and appreciating all the different kinds of history that the region possesses.
That is what happens when you first try to bulgarise Macedonia, then collaborate with Nazis doing unthinkable crimes and then collaborating with Commies repeating those unthinkable crimes. You should consider yourselves blessed being left alive than facing justice for all the crimes your grandpas did. Instead of being ashamed and bowing down your head you try playing the victim card.
*The point is that Greeks and Bulgarians are "allergic" to Macedonians. That is why it is better for their health to avoid allergens (stop thinking about Macedonians), and commenting about them only worsens your condition*
Macedonia is inside Greece. Is very beautiful place. You can come in Vergina and Pella to see the palace who Alexander born. There are a lot of ancient artifacts wroten with the language of the ancient Macedonians, the Greek language. Slavs came in the are 1000 years after Alexander's death and found Byzantine Empire who was the Greek part of Roman state. Slavs and Bulgarians are not Macedonians
I have to say I was really scared of watching this video because most people side woth greek and bulagrian nationlists and ignore things like the ethnic cleansing of maceodnians in greece and bulgaria and I was scared that you would do the same because I really like you. But you didn't do that you made the best essay about this toppic I ever saw. Thank you! I really don't want to criticize anything but would you please think about the fact that every anti ottoman uprising (Bulagrian, Greek, Serbian,...) was backed by the west but the macedonian not. This is due to the fact that the macedonian uprising against the ottomans wasn't only a nitional liberation one but also a communist revolution, the "krusevska republika" did not exist long but it was meant to be a socialist republic and nobody helped us because of that.
@@BalkanOdyssey_ It's alright, surprising enough that you understood and knew so much about this topic as a non-macedonian. I think more nationalists from the balkan should know you. I myself was a nationalist, despite beeing now only 16 but after watching a few videos of you I slowly turned communist. I also moved to germany very young maybe that's why I can realte to everything you say in your videos.
THESE IS JEWISH LIES, IF MACEDONIANS WERE NOT GREEKS HOW COME THE MACEDONIANS EMPIRES IN ASIA AND IN EGYPT IN MEDITERRANEAN SPREAD HELLENISM THE HELLENIC LANGIAGE, CULTURE, RELIGION AND LETTERS?
I am bulgarian. I always wondered why the stupid people on both sides are always the loudest. The average bulgarian doesn't think more than once per year about Macedonia. We have our own problems. Macedonia is not (or it should not be) one of them. I wish them all the best!
I'm just perplexed that your government also does stupid things against Macedonia in the past 3-4 years, and letting Bulgarian nationalists do things that just worsen relationships between us.
@@DacLMKfunny how you’re in every comment reply. We’re always the bad guys right? You not gonna mention the guy who was beat up for just saying he’s identifying as Bulgarian? Or the culture clubs you destroyed and pissed over? Or the tons of monuments and graves of Bulgarians you continue to destroy and try to “remake” in your titoist fake image? Huh? Where is the mention of those, dear “Macedonian” friend?
@@DacLMK This is called geopolitics. You need us to do something for you, we want something in return. This how it should be. What I do not understand is why we are NOT asking for a direct train line or highway between Sofia and Skopie (or any other economic act that will benefit us both) but we are demanding different history books
The modern country called Republic of North Macedonia is rather mixed. 52% are a SLavic fok related to Bulgarians, 29% are Albanians, 10% are Serbs the rest are Turks and Roma (Gypsies). The region of Republic of North Macedonia is what was originally ancient Paeonia. The ancient Greek Kingdom of Macedonia of Alexander the Great is in northern Greece, and the ancient Macedonians were of Greek stock and proto-Greek speakers. DNA of the slavic speaking folk of the Republic of North Macedonia reveals that it is the same as Bulgarian with some Serbian.
Please not that VMRO Nazis collaborate with the Germans in WWII so guess what is happening to 300,000 True Macedonians (hellenes) in this fake Republic? Where are there? Because you correctly mentioning about the Albanians, the Bulgars, the Serbs the Gypsies, the Turks where are the TRUE MACEDONIANS? For example Monastir was a 100% Greek City
"In the 1990s,Macedonians speak a language codified in 1946,spoken by less than two million people, and with a very slender literature. They are members of an Orthodox Church whose authority was established by a socialist political regime in 1968.They are heirs to a 1903 revolution that until the 1940s was described by almost all sources as being Bulgarian." "The history of the Balkan Peninsula" Ferdinand Schevill page 432
The view that Macedonia was majority Macedonian (separate identity) until WWII is wrong. Sure, Macedonism wasn't born overnight after the end of the war, however, the view that all youth people at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century (as portrayed in the video in part about Slaveykov's article) view themselves as Macedonians (as in separate nation instead of Bulgarian regional identity) is wrong and absolutely 100% supports the Serbian nationalistic view which saw to cut chunks of the Bulgarian nation when it saw that serbanization of the Bulgarian population won't be as easy as that in the Great Shopluk region (check Pa sta si ti? from Ivan Vazov). Also, the part about some mysterious unicorn-like pro-socialist population in Northern Greece that 100 identified itself as nothing but Macedonians is just another level. Can you please explain if the people there clearly had this vision about them being 100% Macedonians, something completely separable and different from Bulgarians as you described it, without any root or anything Bulgarian in them, in your own words, why were the ancestors and the family of those very same "Macedonians" so relieved when the Bulgarian army got in Northern Greece in WWII (and undeniably massacred thousands of Greeks), why did they with great joy left the Greek oppression after WWI and went to Bulgaria (after the population exchange treaties between Bulgaria and Greece) and went to form entire refugee neighborhoods and literally every big Bulgarian city such as Sveta Troitsa, Ilinden, Zaharna Fabrika in Sofia, Kyuchuk Parizh in Plovdiv and many, many others? Meanwhile being accepted as Bulgarians by the Bulgarian people (because they were)? Why did Bulgaria go through great troubles to help those people if they are somehow a foreign subject to the Bulgarian nation? One thing that you Serbians (you think you have some different view than the average Serbian, but you don't - this is not a bad thing, just stating the fact), Bulgaria, and Bulgarians (the majority) don't want to incorporate, conquer and occupy Macedonia. Bulgaria, was the first nation to recognise the Macedonian state, and our actions after this only prove this point. In the words of prominent Bulgarian politicians from the time, Milosevic at some point sought to invade Macedonia and conquer it back, but Bulgaria intercepted those plans and said that this would mean war with Bulgaria as well. Sure, this topic is being exploited by Bulgarian politicians, this is a fact and our politicians are just as corrupt as anyone else in the Balkans. Still, the only thing that we want is an immediate cease of the anti-Bulgarian rhetoric in Macedonia, the ability to declare yourself as Bulgarian or Macedonian Bulgarian without being persecuted and discriminated against as is currently the case in the country, the inclusion of Bulgarians in the constitution (which already has all the other nation, but the Bulgarians), as well as recognition of the shared history of the Macedonian and Bulgarian people. None of this is imperialistic, none of this is against the historical facts, none of this is denying the Macedonian identity. All in all, this was moderately pro-Serbian/Yugoslav view on the matter. Asolid video, I expected much worse.
Quite biased propaganda that doesnt mention a lot that destroy the "macedonian" myths. Also conviniently doesnt a lot that support the greek and bulgarian thesis. Lets not forget that before 1947 there were no slavic macedonians just bulgarians
Your views on the identity of the ancient Macedonians is quite shallow. You present only the views of Athenians who were politically hostile to Macedonia, while completely failing to mention the views of the Macedonians themselves, and all other reliable evidence there is. Conflicting views exist in all matters of history, but it is firmly proven in the Historical field that Ancient Macedonia was a state established by Greek peoples and a Greek Ruling Dynasty. I have to thus conclude that you are biased towards the Northern Macedonian side.
Philips is Holland brand. F in those days in Macedonia pronounces different than Φ. The name is ΦΙΛΙΠΠΟΣ not Filip. Filip has not any meaning. ΦΙΛΙΠΠΟΣ means someone who loves the horses.
How come you didnt address ethnic Macedonian irredisism, ethnic cleansing in their own territory (Monastir for example) or the fact that ancienct Macedonians spoke greek, spread hellinism all the way to Afghanistan? How do you justify the terror of VMRO from 1910-1925, the Ohrana battalions that collaborated with the Nazis from 1941-1945 and literally butchered the Greek populations and burnt villages, or the Communist sympathisers that also raided and terrorised during the Greek Civil War? Also how come you mention 2/3 of Ellas was ethnic Macedonians? When those were the numbers in the North-West part of the country AFTER they had lost Athens. Or how they also had nationalist tendencies like KKE All the background pictures from 30:29 and forward to that chapter are completely unrelated to ethnic Macedonians. They are from Athens. Why use them? 38:27 can you ellaborate what "greeks were settled" after WW2? As far as I know the country had lost nearly 20% of its population by the end of WW2
no but he was a Macedonian, ancient people that didn't speak the ancient greek language, rather they spoke a barbaric language according to ancient greeks. Only the nobles and the dynasty were philhellenies because they appropriated the much more sophisticated and advanced greek civilization. The greeks even called Alexander the I a barbarian so that he cannot join the Olympic games. The roman aristocracy also spoke greek, are you claiming the romans are greek also?
the 5th and the 6th century when slavs migrated to the balkans where a time when the byzantine empire was in a temporary decline, and many greeks macedonians panonians dardanians thracians and illyrians living in these areas either moved or assimilated to the bigger slavic population, which at first were invasions but later on as they accepted christianity it was a normal and stable migration.
@@XozusMC Are you trying to promote an idea that the term "Macedonian" is a term that refers to people that speak a slavic idiom, refer to their speech using the name of Macedonia, treating that idiom as if it's the language of Macedonia and also treat places that don't seem to have been a part of Macedonia as if they were such as Scupi?
One funny thing. In the early 2000 years in a Tv program learning macedonians to speek macedonian and not serbian they gave an example of a stew. They said the serbian word and then the macedonian that was from Turkish, Tencere (maybe origin from other language)! A lot of Turkish words are used in Balkan by all people.
Be real. The modern Macedonian language is a new creation from Bulgarian and Serbian, stop making up history. Also these ''Turkish'' words are not even Turkish you took them from your local languages like Arabic and Persian. Turkish language is also a recent creation compared to Arabic and Persian. And not to mention that you once till 1920s you used Arabic script that you later changed with a Latin based.
Modern " Makedonian " is a mix turkis slavis greek words.. nothing else. These people are mixed too Its well knowm that ancient Makedonian was Doric Greek and theis evidence in writing Attic- Ionian
The same happened across the globe: After the fall of the Jin dynasty, Turkic people invaded northern China. They built kingdoms north of the Yangtze River and named their kingdoms after previous Chinese dynasties. They picked themselves a Chinese last name and called themselves the descendants of Chinese nobility. They tried really hard to pretend to be ethnic Chinese. And bang! these barbarians are studied as part of Chinese history today
It is not the same ! Tell us are they looking like Chinese today ? They say : Macedonian coalesced with Slavs and stud Macedonian because they were the same clean white European both . But Helassians of today are in majority of Greek haplogroup , which is not European . And they actually appear different in majority than Macedonian - Skopianos ! Go to Skopje and Northern Greece and than to Athens , you will see who is who .
I see there was a word that Albanians felt oppressed in Macedonia. In which way? Why there is no word about Albanian nationalism over Macedonia? Republic of Ilirida(Separatist Republic of Albanians from Macedonia) was proclaimed in 1992. Way far before Macedonians started to say for themselves they are ancient Macedinians in the mid 2000s. Albanians from Macedonia declared war against Macedonia in 2001. They tried to proclaim Albanian Republic in Macedonia again in 2014. Not a single word about that. Not a single word about so called Great Albania that consider half of Macedonia as historical Albanian land. I am listening one hour about evil Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians and not a single word about Albanian nationalism. Just like video about Kosovo, you avoid to say facts that does not favor to Albanian politics. And to be clear this is not comment against Albania and Albanian people, this is comment addressed to Albanian bourgeoisie.
Oppressed? Albanians aren’t oppressed in the ROM, they’re in fact over-represented in public institutions. Turks, Serbs, Bosniaks, Roma are nowhere. They also come with unreasonable requests, such as singing the Albanian anthem in schools with Albanian students, changing the national anthem to be more “inclusive”, which is bollocks as this inclusiveness and diversity shit has become a virus and not a virtue of our societies. The lie that Albanians are oppressed in our country exists only for the largest Albanian party(which is more like a cartel) to stay in power. It’s the other ethnicities that are now oppressed, who don’t have a chance to be represented in the government, in the institutions, have lower chance of employment in said institutions even with the Ohrid Framework Agreement protecting minority rights of every ethnicity.
It is Albanians who are keeping Macedonia together right now. Western Macedonia is predominantly Albanian. 30-38% of total Macedonian population is Albanian. If Albanians want to disintegrate Macedonia, they can easily achieve it.
THEY ARE NOT "MACEDONIANS". THEY ARE SLAVS LIKE RUSSIANS, SERBS, BULGARIANS, UKRANIANS. THEY USED TO BE PART OF FORMER YUGOSLAVIANS AND THEY SPEAK SAME SLAVIC LANGUAGE AS ALL SLAVS. THE REAL MACEDONIANS WERE THE ANCIENT GREEK MACEDONIANS. THERE IS NO "DEAL". YOU'RE JUST UNEDUCATED.
*their language is a Bulgarian dialect. And the Bulgarians are a Slavic nation more than anyone in the Balkans. So yes, Slavic, but a Bulgarian dialect.
@@HeroManNick132 Az ne sum Zle! Videoto e dobro napraveno, a posebno mi se dopagja negovoto razmisluvanje za obedinuvanje ili zblizuvanje na balkanskite narodi na osnova na socijalna demokratija, bidejki neoliberalniot kapitalizam samo gi razdeluva lugeto i pravi vojni. Taka’ li e?
@@gordonpi8674 Е, не! А пък социализмът е бил все мед и масло и не е направил своите щети, нали? Не ми харесва как тоя изобщо не е неутрален, колкото и да се опитва.
@@HeroManNick132 ne znam sto napravil socijalizmot vo Bugarija, ama vo Jugoslavija bese najdobroto opstestveno ureduvanje sto postoi, besplatno zdravstvo, besplatni univerziteti, otvorenost kon Zapadot, rabotnicko samoupravuvanje kade kapitalot Odese kaj rabotnicite a ne kaj kapitalistite, itn. Plus, Plati od 1000 DM…
@@gordonpi8674 E, какво се оплакваш? Заплатите тук през 60-те са били по 60 лева и се е чакало на опашка за всяко нещо. Дори и една чисто нова Лада, ЗАЗ, Москвич да си купиш е струвала по 4000-8000 лева и се е чакало, чакало, докато ти доставят. Може да сме били що-годе равни, но пак управлението, както сега е крало парите, докато народът взима по 60-100 лева заплата. Ако сега беше така, ти да не видиш интернет и Ютюб.
The only time the balkans will calm down is when all of Macedonia unites at the borders before 1913 and Greeks,Bulgars,Serbs and Albanians accept theytook part of Macedonia. As a Macedonian the history of Alexandar has ties to Greeks since his mother was Greek but the fact that Greeks want it all is the problem
Yet again you try to portray yourself as neutral, yet again your bias/lack of information of the matter is obvious. Before the matter of the emergence of modern nationalism is discussed, we should acknowledge that all people in Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece had a vague sense of national identity. And the people of Nort Macedonia at that time shared that vague Bulgarian national identity with all of the rest of the Bulgarians. They, with all other Bulgarians, were instrumental in the struggle for an independent Bulgarian church, developing modern national culture, the codification of uniform Bulgarian language (with debates on whether to base it on Eastern dialects or Western dialects, which include Macedonia) and in the struggle for Bulgarian independence. Additionally you barely mention that this imposed "transition" from ethnic Bulgarians to ethnic Macedonians was accompanied by brutal measures including murder, imprisonment, suppression and censorship of everyone who espoused Bulgarian consciouness by a totalitarian government. Before tryig to neutrally discuss the future of Nort Macedonia, the centuries long history of Bulgarians in the region and injustices towards them should be mentioned. Everything else is deceiving/misinformation. Let me describe the situation for you as a Serb: Austria - Hungary kept Vojvodina and violently imposed a Vojvodinian ethnic identity(with some Serbs fighting for a politically, not ethnically independent Vovjodina for a time before the imposition of new ethnic identity), by basing their ethnic Vojvodina identity on a strong anti-Serb sentiment. This is how a large part of us, Bulgarians with roots in Macedonia, more than a 1/4th in Bulgaria, feel...
All my life I am curious what are these rethorics about , lasting so many years about bulgarian😅 identification of Macedonian , if Goce Delčev "bulgarian" said ,, I am looking forward MAKEDONIA to become cultural battlefield of different Nations" ! He was certain that all diferent nations are Slav ! Why do you hate each other Bulgaria and Serbia ? Because Macedonians are registered Nation too !
@@voskreglavincevska7080I'm going to answer you piecemeal in the chronological order you asked your questions 1. This arguments about rhetorics are important, because there is a blatant historical falsification widespread in North Macedonian historigraphical discourse about the identities of IMARO/IMRO who all identified as Bulgarians (apart from IMRO united). This is due to the fact that North Macedonia is essentially engaging in a nation building process, including espousing new ethnic consiousness amongs the local Bulgarians, without the need to. I think we also have a bias and our won narrative in Bulgaria but it's wayyyy less than in North Macedonia. 2nd Gotse Delchev may have said that due to the fact that the vast more left-wing part of IMARO/IMRO envisioned the futere Macedonia-Adrianople autonomous villayet as a multicultural and multiethnic entities. This is due to them not wanting to ethnically cleanse and homogenize territories like the nascent Balkan contemporary states at the time often did, but peacefully coexisting and competing culturally. In Macedonia, for example there were not only Bulgarians, but also Turks, Greeks, Albanians and Vlachs. So I think that's what Gotse meant. 3. Bulgaria and Serbia have a very complicated history. I don't see why we can't resolve it peacefully though. And I don't hate Serbian people - I love to listen to Turbofolk and my older brother has a serbian girlfriend:). What I don't like however is when someone is trying to portray themselves as neutral, while concealing their bias, as clearly did the guy who posted the video with his concealed pro-Serbian viewpoints. I have noticed it in some previous videos of his as well.
"Actual literary language of many works of the 19th century" - that's a stretch to say the least. There are works written in dialects yes, but NOT in that dialect that was created/morphed in communist Yugoslavia
Also this was a political decision not a natural occurrence, unnaturally serbification occurred on the already existing dialects, even Venko Markovski who wrote the first book in that dialect, regretted it at the end of his life. There was a purge in 1948 after Tito-Stalin break, and everybody who had anything to say was ... well purged- one way or another, including the original leaders of ASNOM
A lot of what you lay out in these studious videos is set up solely to disguise your bias. Are you sure you're not as chauvinistic in your presentation as the average Balkan nationalist? The Macedonian identity of the Bulgarians from the region of Macedonia is a product of bicentennial Serbian and Greek propaganda, - Serbs and Greeks being the two ethnic groups that first gained independence from the empire. It's all consequential and not at all complicated. The seeds were planted by Greek Patriarchists lobbying in Constantinople and the Serbian Crown scheming a pan-South Slavic uprising with the Russian Empire. Grecomans and Serbian missionaries had been unsuccessfully brainwashing the Aromanian and Bulgarian population in the region of Macedonia and, to better results, in the transitional Bulgaro-Serbian lands along the South Morava (back then called Bulgarian Morava). In the plebiscites held in the mid 1870s, right before Bulgaria appeared on the map, 95% of Slavs in Macedonia identified as Bulgarian, as did the majority of Slavs in the South Morava basin. The Berlin Congress of 1878 was held specifically to prevent the emergence of a big national state in the region, which, by way of being Slavic, Orthodox, and owing its existence to Russia will inevitably fall in the Russian sphere of influence, the expansion of which presented itself as the biggest threat to British and French imperialist interests and the Prussian and Austrian hegemony over all Slavs outside of Russia. And so they gave a third of the South Morava basin to Serbia, a third to Bulgaria, and a third they left under Ottoman rule along with the entire regions of Macedonia and Thrace. In 1885, upon the unification of The Principality of Bulgaria and Upper Thrace (Eastern Rumelia), Serbia was encouraged by the same imperial parties to attack Bulgaria and capture the Principality chunk of the South Morava basin (up the Nišava, all the way to Sofia) and Bulgaria's surprisingly successful counteroffensive had to be stopped by these same powers "calling for peace" in fear of Bulgaria gaining back the rest of the South Morava and Timok regions and consolidating even further. As for Macedonia and Lower Thrace, - up to the First Balkan war, the Bulgarian VMORO had been the ONLY organization working towards an armed mass revolt which was supposed to secure autonomy for the regions and eventually have them unified with Bulgaria. Unfortunately, the Ilinden uprising of 1903 was crushed and failed to encourage external intervention. Serbia and Greece helped liberate Macedonia in the First Balkan war and claimed the land, then Bulgaria (rightfully, as previously negotiated) claimed it too, attacked its allies and lost. It gained back everything (and more) during WW1 but the Central Powers lost the war. 22 years of Serboman and Grecoman propaganda and legal denationalization (Macedonians were officially Serbs and Greeks on paper) ended with a repeat liberation during WW2 (later reinterpreted as occupation, which, de jure, it was, but de facto Bulgarian army and state administration simply replaced the German military presence; not to mention there's plenty of footage and photographic evidence of the population cheering on the Bulgarian processions into cities, flooding the squares to celebrate under proclamations of reunification etc. or the fact Bulgaria invested billions in building infrastructure over the next three years). Axis defeat sealed the deal for some 47 years of more oppression and brainwashing and further 32 years of even bigger, more bombastic loads of crap fed to the people there by populist charlatans, and here we are, rolling our eyes at Skopje's main square and pretending it's not the result of Austrian and British imperialism backing Serbian and Greek expansionism that turned Balkan statehood into the laughable nonsensical tangle we've got today. As a Serb and a youtuber who's read one too many unhinged nationalistic comments, you're likely to dismiss my summary as even more biased than your well-researched presentation but the reality is I've accepted the disintegration of our nation. Most Bulgarians have. We dream no irredentist dreams. We laugh at "Blgarija na tri moreta". Serbs and Albanians, on the other hand, haven't accepted the unfortunate outcome. That's why in the present day all conceivable military conflicts on the Balkans could only be set off by either Serbian or Albanian aggression... Also, I've noticed your frequent use of the most ridiculous, one-of-a-kind Serbian ultranationalist ethnic map of the Balkans with the Serbian ethnos taking up a quarter of present-day Bulgaria as well as half of Macedonia, so stop pretending you're approaching these topics without bias. Or do it for real. Things are simple on the subject of the (once nothing more than regional) Macedonian identity. Even if we agreed that national identity emerged during the era of enlightenment, we must also acknowledge tribal/ethnic alliances have been here for millennia. The people of Bulgaria and NM are descended from the same confederate tribes and tribal marriages, and share all their imperial admixtures throughout all of recorded history, long before they first called themselves Bulgarian, and they don't share those exact ethnogeneses with any of their neighbours. Moesian, Thracian and Macedonian Slavs were an organically evolved ethnic alliance. The ethnonym "Bulgarian" stuck merely as a tribute to the demonym of the last state that had consolidated their organic affiliation. Most of Thrace was ruled by the medieval Bulgarian state for a much shorter period of time than Macedonia was, yet the Thracian Slavs never questioned they belong with the Moesian Slavs. The re-emergence of a modern Bulgarian ethnostate was simply systematically suppressed. And the process serves as proof that people CAN be brainwashed into developing a faux national identity. It's shameful and absurd but shame here only fuels the process. The earlier an ethnically Bulgarian land was annexed, the weaker the populace feels the bond to the nation they organically belong to. And it's tragic, - not so much for those who still call themselves Bulgarian as much as it is for those who don't. The Torlaks don't feel properly Serbian and the region they inhabit is underdeveloped and suffering depopulation. The Slavs in NM are having a hard time convincing themselves their history books make any sense at all while their state is headed for a demographic takeover of another ethnicity. The Slavs in Greece, also largely neglected by the state, are leaving more and more ghost towns behind as they migrate to Macedonia, Bulgaria or elsewhere, while the ones who stay don't even care to preserve their Slavic identity anymore. No one wins. Oh.. right... Serbia and Greece look meatier, and we're providing the Albanians with more land to settle... The simple truths you dance around in order to please everyone (and your own national pride) discredit your whole project in the eyes of those trying to see the unfiltered bigger picture. And it's a shame considering your channel is dedicated to motivating the only viable solution to all this. ...still, your work is highly appreciated and I remain subscribed, so keep it up :)
Yeah they literally have the same exact language and ethnicity, but I guess due to being separate they wanted to make them seem different so they split them up and gave them different identities. Much like how Montenegro or Moldova exists today.
@@HeroManNick132 yeah yeah he surely want it back but with some "yugoslav characteristics". He's just a recisionist who love to chug on his old nationalist self. I understand him, sometimes it's difficult, i was too a fascist but you need to grow up eventually
Do you have any actual sources that back up that the bukgwtian6r entho state suppressed? Good analysis on the first half but the 2nd feels like it's just parroting Bulgaric historian propaganda.
It's so bizarre how some nationalists desperately want people who don't identify with their nation to do so. If 2 million people say they're not serbian or bulgarian, then just leave it and accept it, they're not. In Spain spanish nationalists also say that 'catalonia is Spain'... like... let them decide for themselves, you're literally not catalonian what do you care how other people's relate or not to your (in this case stupid) idea of your nation?
It's not bizarre at all.. If some people are deluded, at least you have to tell them the truth and let them to decide afterwards. And the historical truth is that the so called "ethnic macedonians" were called (and called themselves) bulgarians in the recent past. Some of them, not so many probably, are doing the same today. Also, the "macedonian" identity is problematic at least, as actual "macedonians" have nothing to do with the macedonians from antiquity... but they are closed related to bulgarians (language, traditions, common history etc.). Your comparation with Catalonia is not very good, since the catalonian language is quite different from the standard spanish, despite the fact that it is also a romance language derived from vulgar latin... Also, the history is different...
@@raduleu293 Lmao their DNA tests all say the closest people are Bulgarians because the are fricking Bulgarians! How many times have to be said in order everyone to understand that? The so called ''Macedonians'' speak a 20th century rural dialect of Bulgarian, mixed with the Torlak and Shtokavian dialects of Serbian. That's why they became ''different'' even thought they are 90% the same grammatically, lexically. As vocabulary and alphabet they were strongly influenced from Serbo-Croatian, particularly Serbian because like the Moldovans in Romania they were forced to speak Russian as Ukrainians and Belarusians, just like the Slovenes and ''Macedonians'' - Serbo-Croatian. About history we share the exact same history, they just don't want to admit that and think they have in common with Ancient Macedonians.
@nestycb6702 This is a different scenario. Unlike Catalonia, North Macedonia is independent country since 1991, while Catalonia is still part of Spain to this day, even if there are more national movements in the world like with Kurdistan but their neighbours won't let them to separate and form their country. So you can't compare Catalonia with North Macedonia. Catalonia has more people than the entire country of North Macedonia so again you have way different history and you suffered less than any Balkan nation. You didn't have 500 years Ottoman occupation so, please stop it.
OK but catalonians have existed for centuries. Macedonian national identity only picked up steam in the 40s and was politicaly motivated. They are nearly indistinguishable from Bulgarians so why make the distinction at all? Ethnicities have a material basis, you can't just apply liberal identity politics and call it a day
Sorry for the long comment, but I have to write it. You are wrong, but it is understandable to think so, because no one is presenting the real picture from Macedonia, including this video. There are people in Macedonia who know they are Bulgarians and want to define themselves as such, but it is very dangerous. After 1944, the Law on Macedonian National Honor was adopted in Macedonia, which practically forbids being Bulgarian. Terror and death await anyone who dares to say he is Bulgarian. Today they no longer kill people, but state terror continues. This fact has already been established in a number of EU documents. I will give you just a few examples. This year, Bulgarians in Macedonia created cultural clubs - small cafes, nothing special. One of the clubs was set on fire, the other club was attacked with an ax in front of observers from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, another club was shelled with bullets during the night. There are no punishments. All clubs were banned by a unanimous decision of the Macedonian parliament. All the members of the clubs have lawsuits. One of the clubs members, a 21-year-old boy, was badly beaten and the local hospital refused to treat him. The president of Bulgaria had to send his jet to transport the boy to a Bulgarian hospital. At the last Eurovision, the Macedonian representative admitted in an YT interview that he is a Macedonian Bulgarian and has Bulgarian citizenship. Politicians in Macedonia formed a commission to remove him as a Macedonian representative and the man received 400 death threats and now does not live in Macedonia. One more example. Just a few months ago, in the yard of an old church in Macedonia, the authorities changed the tombstones of buried Macedonian revolutionaries because their names are Bulgarian, and the inscriptions say they are fighting for a united Bulgaria. Their names were changed to Macedonian. Do you understand? This is total cultural genocide. Everything Bulgarian is still forbidden, and anyone who dares to define himself as a Bulgarian faces state-sponsored terror. At the same time, Macedonia pretends to be a victim before the international community. The language of hatred towards Bulgarians and everything Bulgarian is striking in Macedonia. There is no greater sin than admitting your Bulgarian roots. This is how the communists imposed a Macedonian nation. This video and many others hide these facts. Children in Macedonia are learning history that you can't read anywhere else in the world. I will give you an example - all peoples in Europe have their own songs and proverbs collected in books. This tradition probably started with the Germans. Macedonians don't have them, because there were simply no such people, such an ethnic group in the past. How the communists solved this problem. They took a collection of songs called "Bulgarian folk songs from Macedonia" by the Miladinov brothers, then censored any mention of Bulgarians by replacing it with Macedonians and published this book as "Folk songs from Macedonia" - Bulgarian disappears :))). This is how history is made in Macedonia. Erasing the Bulgarians and renaming them Macedonians. You are not right that 2 million people does not want to be bulgarian, they are not allowed such thing. Makeodnia cannot start negotiations for the EU today, because it must include the Bulgarians as an ethnic group in the constitution - this is a requirement of the EU. The politicians in this country don't allow Bulgarians in the constitution and for an year the process for EU is holded. All other ethnicities are included, but Bulgarians have no place in Macedonia. Make your own conclusions about what it is about. Discrimination and hatred towards Bulgarians. People are just scared to call themselves bulgarians there. Most of the time they just lose their jobs very fast and the unemployment is staggering 35% in North Macedonia.
Great video. Thank you. Cheers from Ukraine. P.S.: pretty sad to see a lot of chauvinism in the comments, but I can understand, as a "fellow Slav" you get used to seeing it, lol.
@@solarsystempresident But it's true. Tell me where and when Ukrainian nation existed before 1900s? Divide and conquer and nationalism destroy countries and relations.
@Ілля Ветров can you give when and where Ukrainian nation existed before to act like as inocent. Not only you speak a mix between Russian and Polish but also you feel a victim of chauvinism because you decided to break away recently... So how do you explain your Ukrainian divide and rule from Russia and Poland?
This video has been very depolarizing for me. As a Greek i was always bombarded with the Greek view of the problem from every side, which is largely denial of a Macedonian state and identity. This video has been an interesting watch and a starting point for more research to the topic.
Keep researching. You'll find out what the Greeks did to make the province "Macedonia" to be majority ethnic Greeks, and tons of other things that we have gone through to keep the Macedonian question open during the dark times of the 19th and first half of the 20th century.
Probably one of the most non biased videos I've seen on UA-cam related to Macedonia, thank you for your work and research, seems like it took you quite a time to make this video.
Balkan Odyssey is financed by Russia. Some of the benefactors listed are known to work with Russians. Who else will advocate the re-creation of the Balkan Union and communism in the Balkans.
After watching, Bulgarian debaters I see now kind of have a point , the Serbians manipulated and lied to the Bulgarians in Macedonia, almost tearing apart the Bulgarian brotherhood, nevertheless siding with the axis didn’t make bulgaria look any more innocent
@@DacLMK За какво ме жалиш? Имаш си свободата да се наречеш ''марсианец,'' ако щеш, но голям проблем имам с името ви ''македонци.'' Явно, като в Близкия изток с Израел и Палестина никога няма да има примирие дори и да ми се иска да има.
North Macedonian Yugoslav propaganda, the Bulgarian point of view is not taken into account. Yugoslavia is a neo-Ottoman toilet and Bulgaria is an ex-communist state 0% neo-Ottomanism, everyone who liked the video works for Russia, everyone who says Macedonia is not Bulgarian, helps Putin to take over the Balkans, Bulgaria has Russian sentiment not Macedonia and you should be careful .This video is full of communist lies and should be taken down.North Macedonian Yugoslav propaganda, the Bulgarian point of view is not taken into account. Yugoslavia is a neo-Ottoman toilet and Bulgaria is an ex-communist state 0% neo-Ottomanism, everyone who liked the video works for Russia, everyone who says Macedonia is not Bulgarian, helps Putin to take over the Balkans, Bulgaria has Russian sentiment not Macedonia and you should be careful .This video is full of communist lies and should be taken down.North Macedonian Yugoslav propaganda, the Bulgarian point of view is not taken into account. Yugoslavia is a neo-Ottoman toilet and Bulgaria is an ex-communist state 0% neo-Ottomanism, everyone who liked the video works for Russia, everyone who says Macedonia is not Bulgarian, helps Putin to take over the Balkans, Bulgaria has Russian sentiment not Macedonia and you should be careful .This video is full of communist lies and should be taken down.
@@BalkanOdyssey_ np also if you want I think I have some first hand sources tracing back to my grate grate grate grate grandfather if you want them and most of them lived to 70-100 years so that does cover a big part of macedonian history proper. however I just have to get to my home town
Thucidides literally uses the term barbarian to differentiate macedonians and chalchidians from the mercenaries bro wtf are you talking about ,and isocrates flat out calls phillip ii greek ...
THIS CHANNEL IS A ANOTHER PAID JEWISH LYING CHANNEL, MACEDONIANS ARE GREEKS FOR OVER 4000 YEARS NOW EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS, THESE ALBANOSLAVS ARE NOT MACEDONIANS
You mention 3 Ancient Greeks who considered the Macedonians to be barbarians and not Greeks. What you failed to mention is that all three Demosthenes, Isocrates & Thucydides were Athenian and their allegiance was to Athens, which was particularly threatened by the rise and prominense of the Macedonian kingdom during the late classical period, a concern eventually proved justified. That is a critical detail with regards to how the Ancient Greeks viewed the Macedonians which you completely left out to suit your narrative. Very disappointing on your part. We also have references to the Greek dialect of the island of Lesbos being referred to as barbarian in Plato's Protagoras (341c), but no one seems to conclude from that that the Aeolic Greeks of Lesbos were barbarians? You completely ignore all the nuance of the word & the context and present it as brute fact. In reality, "barbarian" meant a lot of things depending on the context, period & author. One of those meanings is speaker of a distant Greek dialect (like Macedonian).
The nuance is that there was no universal consensus and there were some, albeit not many, disagreements about it. In the very next sentence I state several times that they indeed were considered part of the Hellenic world by many. It doesn't have to be black abd white, everything or nothing. I didn't pass any value judgement, merely showed the state of consensus.
@@BalkanOdyssey_ You did not mention the geopolitical context, and equated being called barbarian to being called non-greek, which is an oversimplification of the term.
What a load of sophisticated bullshit!!!! The problem with the Pseudo-''Mecedonians'' is not only that we know to which ethnic group they do not belong but we in fact know with 100 pct certainty to which ethnic group they do belong: they speak Bulgarian, they sound Bulgarian they use the Cyrilic alphabet, thus they are Bulgarian. When the whole comedy show started with the break up of Yugoslavia I was living in Belgium and had a cleaner who had recently immigrated from a village outside Skopia to Belgium. I posed to her a simple question : do you speak/read and understand Bulgarian and she told me absolutely yes, in fact because it was not easy to find FYROM newspapers in Belgium her family was reading Bulgarian Newspapers and magazines. As to your contention that the Ancient Macedonians were not considered as Greeks and your references to Greek orators about this the answer is very simple, Greece was never a solid unitary state is was a collection of City States often antagonistic to each other (let us not forget the Athens/Sparta wars) and you can find orators saying all short of things against each others' cities. The acid test as to who was Greek was who took part in the Olympic Games of that period because only those considered as Greek could take part, and the Macedonians where there. (after the Roman conquest also the Romans could take part....but this was to be expected). The problem with your propaganda driven analysis is that you look at things from a racist north-european point of view. Greece was never an ethnic racially homogeneus group they were tribes who came from everywhere, the north (the Dorians) the south east (the Ionians) and many others. In fact the word Greeks has never been used in Greek, we use the term Hellenes. The term Greek derives from the Romans and although its origins are contested it seems comes from an obscure tribe that lived somewhere near the City of Thebes about 40 Km from Athens. Nor is Hellenism a closed Club. The Best definition of a Hellene is given by ISOCRATES in 4th Century BC who declared: ''And if a man should partake of our culture, let him be called Hellene''. Your analysis is particularly flawed when you refer to an ethnic discontinuity in the region during the Ottoman period. In those days the vast majority of the population was illiterate so the only means of communicating with others further afield was to hire a ''Gra- matikos'' ,meaning someone who could Write, and more often than not this person was the local priest. Hundreds of this letters exist and they are in Greek. There exists a cultural continuity all over the lands of Greece including the Macedonian region since antiquity. Do not also forget the predominance of the Greek Orthodox Church in Macedonia though out this period who's services were in Greek. In short it is difficult to breach the Hellenic identity. We are a people who have a unique Language (nobody uses this language apart from us), based on a unique Alphabet (nobody else uses this alphabet apart from us) occupying, more or less, the same lands on which we built one of the greatest civilizations in history which is still relevant at present and we will not take History lessons from an American (you sound American?) who use someone's else language (English) written in someone else's alphabet (Latin) and who built your Nation on someone else's Land (the Red Man's Land)...... admittedly you have done a good job of it with the whole adding up to more than the parts...... I would love to find out who finances your podcast because it seems to be a rather professional sophisticated propaganda piece. Could it be the Soros Foundation??the CIA?? (not much difference between the two)??? Love from Athens, Socrates the Cat
Pretty close to a subjective truth, if there is such a thing. One correction so far - it was never called "Внатрешна Македонска Револуционерна Организациja", that is translation into modern Macedonian. The name chosen on the congress in 1906 was "Вѫтрешна Македоно-Одринска Революциона Организация" and was written in literary Bulgarian. There are derivations of the name from before that and after re-establishment after the Balkan Wars, but it was always written in Bulgarian, along with it's manifestos. It's an important detail to get the full context
@@history_repeats8201 Yes some bulgarians became greeks in the ottoman empire just because the greek church was accepted before the bulgarian and the bulgarians had no rights at fierst
@@BringBackCyrillicBG If you insinuate that our family is Bulgarian that somehow became Greek you are absolutely wrong. We have done our DNA test and we are 85% Greek, 10% Southern Italian and 5% Cypriot.We have 0% slavic DNA. Have you done the test?
@@history_repeats8201 Bulgaria also isnt slavic its mediterranean race and according to reasearches has more to do with thracians or the native balkan people than slavs or turks also a lot of bulgarians became greeks or turks like the pomaks you have heard of which are bulgarians
Also Zaev saying that Macedonian history was forged is not even a claim, it's well documented, even Macedonian scholars that are not politically active admit it. And the majority of Bulgarians does not want to integrate Macedonia, that is crazy. But historically forgeries and populist hate-campaign has to stop
no matter how you put it. Macedonia is a greek word that has a meaning only in greek same as Alexander (alex- antrdos =bane of men) and Philip (filos ippos =friend of horses) same with all famous ancient Macedonians. parmenion Ptolemy kleipatra Olympias Thessaloniki etc. history calls the period of the diadohoi successors of Alexander Hellenistic period and the states Hellenistic states. Helene is another word for greek. slavs came to the region of Macedonia much later in the 6th century. the other Slavic and not helene races named their countries. so we have Bulgaria and not the greek term Thrace. turkey and not ionia albania and not epirus. only north Macedonia kept the ancient greek name. it shouldn't be legal.
@@HeroManNick132 gi proteraa site deca makedonci od egejskiot del,vo polka, ceska, Australija gi razmestija ako se tri deca ili dve u familja gi prakaa vo razlicni drzavi, ima svedocenje na youtube
@@BobanTasevski-t5r Pusti gi ignorantite i dushmanite, i taka i vaka nema da razberat, zatoa sto ke puknat od Inaet deka Makedonskata Nacija oduvek postoela i ke postoi, site ovie nasi komsii se stvoreni Vestacki Nacii i dojdenci od Rusija i od Kavkazot. Makedonija im dade Pismenost i Kultura i Religija, No dovolno e samo Gospod da ja znae vistinata, a ne Dushmani i Ignoranti na Vistinata = Ignoranti na Bozjata Vistina, ke skapat u Pekolot za toa i nema da im prosti Gospod zatoa sto se Nevernici i Fanatici ...
@@HeroManNick132 во твојот газ да е* Научи подобро. Некогаш одговара "ти', а некогаш не. На пример, може и "жена ти" и "твојата жена", но САМО "твојот газ"
@@AndrejNikolov-xw2gi Ха, глупави реформи на селски диалект! Не стига, че сте изостнали във времето, но си и такъв лицемер! Ще се признаеш ли за българин скоро?
@@AndrejNikolov-xw2gi цел свет стои зад Бугарија, никој не стои зад македонските платени лаги во видеото.Наскоро ќе немате што да јадете и струја.Вашата тврдоглавост ќе ве доврши.
Thank you for choosing such a controversial topic. Although i would have liked you to mention that the VMRO was split between two main factions (pro Macedonian side and pro Bulgarian side), this is the best video i have seen on this topic.
Всички от ВМРО са били българи, после възниква понятието ''македонски българин.'' Но да, борели сме се, за да бъдем заедно, макар и планът да се провали. Но поне македонизмът ви избави от това, че ако не беше, щяхте сега да сте сърби. Поне българите, колкото и да не ги обичате сега, те ви помогнаха да не бъдете сърби.
@@ItachiUchiha-bt8yp Фактически съм анти, но все пак, както всяко нещо си има добрите и лошите страни, не зачитам, че македонизмът е било най-лошото нещо на света. Все пак той ви избави да не бъдете изцяло асимилирани в южни сърби.
Which Macedonians are you referring to?? There are Greek Macedonians from ancient Macedonia in northern Greece and there are the SLav Macedonians from the Former Yugoslav Republic of North Macedonia who are a people of Bulgarian stock who only started calling themselves "Macedonians" in a political sense 150 years ago, i.e they are NOT related to the ancient Greek tribe of Macedonians of Alexander the Great.
The part about ancient Greeks not recognising Macedonians as Greeks is a massive red flag and shows an obvious bias by the researcher. Macedonians where very much considered Greeks since they were allowed participation in the Olympics which was a strictly Greek event...non Greeks were not allowed attendance let alone participation in the Olympics. Macedonians spoke Greek, believed in the Greek pantheon and spread Hellenism throughout the empire, and that influence survived all the way to the fall of the Ptolemaic Egypt to the Romans. Athenians saw Macedonians as "barbarians" the same way a New Yorker sees a Nebraskan as different, maybe even "lesser" but certainly American. Please be more careful with your research as the video ended up feeling very propagandistic, bias and poorly researched.
@@cicinvazi of course it existed before the 1800s...the Macedonian identity has existed since the 7th century BC, way before the Slavs appropriated it as their own and that is exactly where the bias is...the notion the Macedonians weren't Greek has been disproven time and time again but the illiterate and misinformed will always deny it trying to create an identity for themselves out of thin air
"In order to understand Macedonian Nationalism, we must start from the very beginning. What is the Universe and how it formed?" *Proceeds to explain General Relativity as it applies to cosmology* 😂
@@ItachiUchiha-bt8yp Знаеш много добре, че вие правите всичко по всевъзможност, колкото да бъдете по-надалеч от нас и по-близо до сърбите с възможно най-изкуственият начин някога, чрез политиката ви.
@@HeroManNick132 нема врска тоа, вистина е дека сме по пријателски настроени кон Србите ама тоа е заради вашата идиотска политика кон Македонија. Искрено многу сте патетични со тоа што се однесувате како некое поранешно момче коешто било напуштено од девојка му.
@@ItachiUchiha-bt8yp Затова ли палите знамена, трошите паметници, оскърбявате ни, гърмите клубове и биете по българи? Това са случаи преди да ви сложим вето. Да не кажа, че във вашите църкви нарочно заличавате с боя доказателства, че сте били българи, а? А сърбите, които ви наричат сърби с дефект, какви са за вас? Приятели?
They were invented by the Bulgarian communist party in order to stop the serbianisation of Macedonia. They succeeded but the Bulgarians ran from the victory and said that the Serbian communist created them. And instead of the Bulgarians and Macedonians live like a brotherly peoples they constantly fight wich is sad.
@@scarecrow533 it was fringe until post-WW2. There is an argument to be made that a national identity is irrelevant if it is too young and not yet fully developed. Taiwan is another good example
@@scarecrow533 Did you read what you linked? This is direct quote from it : "The organization was founded in 1893 in Ottoman Thessaloniki by a small band of anti-Ottoman Macedono-Bulgarian revolutionaries,[15] who considered Macedonia an indivisible territory and all of its inhabitants "Macedonians", no matter their religion or ethnicity.[16] In practice, IMRO was established by Bulgarians and most of their followers were Bulgarians.[17] The organization was a secret revolutionary society operating in the late 19th and early 20th centuries with the goal of autonomous Macedonia and Adrianople regions.[18] Initially, they were against the aspirations of neighboring states in the area and saw the future autonomous Macedonia and Southern Thrace as a multi-ethnic entity.[19][20] It appears likely that at the early stages of the struggle, a desired outcome of the autonomy was unification with Bulgaria.[21][22][23][24] This aim was changed later with the idea of transforming the Balkans into a federal state, in which Macedonia and Thrace would enter as equal members.[25][26][27] The idea of autonomy was strictly political and did not imply a secession from Bulgarian ethnicity.[28] Even those, who advocated for independent Macedonia and Thrace, never doubted the predominantly Bulgarian character of the Slavic population in both areas.[29] "
@@scarecrow533You mean the Bulgarian Macedonian revolutionary organization originally known as the IMORO? Which had most it's founding members and most it's famous members identify as Bulgarian? Yeah.. That one.
You missed alot of things about the Macedonian Nationalism before ww2, theres Georgija Pulevski, Dimitar Blagoev, Teodosij Gologanov, Nikola Karev Akropolis 1903 Interview and many more. Irish Roger Casement Quote on Macedonia, Also the Emblem at 25:36 says "Freedom for our Motherland Macedonia" in Bulgarian, because Kosovo too used Serbian language and cyrillic before its indepenance. You can learn more about Macedonia in the Akropolis Interview, there was a reason VMRO had secret organisations. When Bulgaria visited Skopje in 1942 we knew we were Bulgarian but 2-3 years later all 1.2m got brainwashed by Tito, "Just let there be a Macedonia". In just 3 years you brainwash a nation you gotta be a God. Did Tito also brainwash the ethnic Macedonians in Greeks,Albania,Canada,US, Australia that left in the 1920-30.
If you read VMORO's documents you'll see they were written in Bulgarian, there was no such thing as Macedonian back then. The only attempt of creating Macedonian and making it as reality was done by Krste Misirkov, Blazhe Koneski and others. During Krushevo's pepublic flag it was clearly written ''Свобода или смъртъ'' and not as now ''Слобода или смрт'' which is taken from Serbian.
Your comment shows just how flawed your history curriculum was. The process of Macedonization was started as early as 1934 when the Comintern deemed Macedonians as a separate peoples. This was followed by the Bloody Christmas (feels free to google that) events of early 1945 where thousands were tried and tens of thousands were deported for the crime of "Bulgarian chauvinism". Macedonian was first codified in 1945 based on the Bitola-Prilep dialect and Serbian letters like : "j" were added while some Bulgarian ones were removed like : "я". Let me ask you, if the government came in today and told you, you were Chinese and then warned you that you would lose your livelihood, your children would be kicked out of school and deportation and incarceration were happening all around you, how would you react ? Most people have to survive and look after their families, that is how Bulgarian nationalist was killed in North Macedonia and how propaganda like Bulgarians being Tatars or Fascists is on the lips of every single Slav in that region today.
It's not about making smaller and smaller countries, the video clearly speaks about the breakup of Yugoslavia as being a bad thing for Macedonians, and fondly about the idea of a larger Balkan federation. I don't know what the point of this post is, but it seems you've missed the point entirely.
@@odalv316 What is diference of being Bulgarian or Serbian . It is the same nationalist . That is the reason , we are now independent country Makedonia ! You are now on the turn to start War . So long time you are in degeneracy and isolation because of mulfunctioned genes from the evil past !
@@kxa3532 That's not exactly true. In 1392 Pasha Yiğit Bey led the army that took Üsküp (modern Skopje) and he was named the Conqueror of Üsküp by the Ottoman Empire. The ethnic Bulgarians and Greeks who inhabited the area were moved to western Bulgaria and northern Greece. During the Ottoman Empire the region North Macedonia was inhabited by Anatolian Turks. The Albanian colonization started from the end of 18th century throughout the first half of the 19th century. Unfortunately, these facts are not well known to ordinary people who are not interested in medieval history.
@@kxa3532 For your information Boris I was a knyaz (княз), not a king (крал/цар). As I already told you, these people were Anatolian Turks from the 14th century to the 20th century. Before that period they were a mixture of Macedonians, Bulgars, Thracians and Greeks. When the Ottoman Empire captured the city of Üsküp (now Skopje), all ethnic Bulgarians were expelled of the city into Western Bulgaria. Due to the proximity, the Bulgarian cultural and political influence in the region remained very strong. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, many Bulgarians returned there, but were once again subjected to de-Bulgarianization by the Serbian authorities when Vardar Macedonia was annexed by the Kingdom of Serbia in 1912. In order to reduce Bulgaria's influence, a new history and language were invented for these people, erasing their Ottoman origin. If you walk around Skopje you will see more people with Anatolian features than Slavic ones.
@@kxa3532 Those who live in North Macedonia are not pure Slavs or Bulgarians, but you are right. The Macedonian ethnic group was assimilated by Bulgarians, Ottomans and Serbs.
@@kxa3532 Well, I'm Bulgarian. We always called him knyaz Boris I (this was his title), not king Boris I. The second one sounds weird. We have many schools, streets and boulevards named "Княз Борис I". The western spelling is wrong.
The biggest mistake was not forming a country which would be made of former Yugoslavia, Albania, Bulgaria and Greece, not only that country would be huge but it would enable every Balkan Nation to live in the same country and nobody in Europe or world could mess with it
One correction I need to point out: That "regional" Bulgarian Macedonian identity of the IMRO is actually contemporary Bulgarian nationalist rhetoric. That Bulgarian Macedonian identity was more of a political identity, where they wanted institutional independence from all neighboring capitals. It is analogous to the Yugoslav Macedonian identity during SFRY, or even partly the Serbian Vojvodina identity. I recomend you watch this interview between an ethnic Macedonian and a Bulgarian Macedonian on the matter: ua-cam.com/video/rr-zIhUL5LQ/v-deo.html EDIT: The replies prove my point.
Why the ottoman turks called the so called "ethnic macedonians", bulgarians? Why do you speak a dialect of the bulgarian language (indeed, somewhat different from standard bulgarian which is based on eastern bulgarian dialects, but not so much) and not a greek dialect as macedonians from antiquity or a serbian dialect? I'm not bulgarian, but I can understand the point of vue of bulgarians very well...
IMRO was definitely an ethnic Bulgarian organisation at the start (IMORO being the original name). They regionally identified as Macedonians but Bulgarian was the major identity.
@@rawka_7929 Not really at the start of its creation it was clearly apart from the bulgarians, During the ilinden revolt The president of the Krusevo Republic would not accept any bulgarian donations of weapons, It became more bulgarian influenced once the most important leaders of the Centralist part (Anti-bulgarian) of the IMRO died and the Vrhovist part (Pro-bulgarian) got stronger due to the bulgarians influencing them BTW The name at the start wasnt IMORO It was SMORO(TMORO) (Secret Macedonian Odrine Revolutionary Organisation)
Comparing today's nationalistic concepts with the antiquity is silly. There was no Greece as a nation back then, just city states. Language and culture was their common ground and other than that they seen each other as ally or foe, depending the politics. So, calling someone barbarian wasn't a fact for not being Greeks, but rather an insult for having political issues with them (aka for being a Kingdom instead of a Democracy). It's proven that Macedonians were Doric, had Greek names (you know, names that actually mean something in Greek, like Philip (Filos-Ippos, friend of the horse), they wrote EVERYTHING in Greek, they participated in Olympic games (not an international event back then, only Greeks were allowed) and after conquering the rest of Greece they simplified the Greek language from all the other dialects (Ionian, Doric etc) to simply Koine Greek and spread it to the world. They were the ones who created the Hellenistic Period and thus saying it's disputed they were Greeks (Hellenes) is dumb af.
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What's the deal with people suffering through communism and then supporting it again???😅😅😅
One should first study the issue, IMRO is a Bulgarian organization, it is fighting for accession to Bulgaria, this is also recognized by North Macedonian historians. You are poisoned by Yugoslav propaganda, you must know that Bulgaria was part of the USSR, there is no neo-Osmanism there.
Can you do a video about anarchism in the balkans?
Do you remember VoidViper?
They are no more "Macedonians" than they are "Athenians". Their foreign apologists are lying propagandists that, unambigiously, engaged in communist style ethnic engineering. The Greek hating liars lost the argument the second the frauds tries to narrate themselves into apparently antihellenic founders of the Hellenistic period which defies even basic common sense.
I am sure the comment section will be as peaceful as the bosnian war
Average topic about the Balkans
@@BalkanOdyssey_ Serves you well when spreading pseudohistory. So? Macedonians "non-Greek" eh? Thus Olympic Games accepted barbarians from a small obscure failing non-Greek state. LOL! Good luck with that Slav.
@@dinos9607 It's like you are trying to remain ignorant. In order to participate in the Olympic games, Alexander the I needed to "prove" his "Greek ancestry" to the ancient Greeks, now, why would he, as a "Greek", needed to prove something like that? Later he was named "Phihellene", the name says it all.
@@87degreez Υour ignorance is phenomenal Slav because what you are telling us here is that a Greek living in Persepolis, in the Persian Empire could participate in the Olympic Games after proving his Greek ancestry. To understand how moronic is what you said we only need to remind you that the law at the Olympic Games was to be Greek-blooded athlete representing Greek-blooded state. That was it Had Macedonians been non-Greek he would not had been let to even travel at Olympia let alone become a participant. The accusation against Alexander I was a p e r s o n a l accusation against him, linked with the story of him forced-marrying his sister to a Persian general to avoid the scandal of him having murdered the whole Persian Embassy earlier. While Herodotus does not elaborate, his detractors apparently accused him of being from a family that does intermarrriages with barbarians and hence when he was called he just explained the lineage of his family - he didn't need to explain anything about Macedonians because they were known as Greeks and as nothing else.
To be noted we do have Macedonian athletes coming down later on and Philip had sent a team as well and doing so at a time the Macedonian kingdom was on the brink of collapse. The mere notion that a weak failing barbaric kingdom would be sending teams at Olympia is simply ludicrous.
I know you don't care about history but only to satisfy your complexes of inferiority towards Greeks and Greek history. It may pain you in your *ss but the historical facts are historical facts :they were Greeks. No amount of cries from your part will change that.
@@87degreez A Greek who is a friend of Greeks? Neat.
Macedonians are actually portuguese
It belongs to Argentine, actually
Mood
You fool, isn't it obvious that Macedonia is Nepalese?
say it again and they will claim Magellan
They India
All I know as a bulgarian when I visited Macedonia, all the normal people outside of the internet were friendly and even happy when we said where we were from. Either we can fight about historical borders and argue about ”who macedonians really are” or we can just live in peace and appreciate that we have shared culture and history. Its not that serious.
Agreed
Научи го това име - Северна Македония!
@@HeroManNick132 Брате, доста беше, да живееме мирно на балканот а не така.
@@salar1586 Ако не се държиш по македонистки начин и приемаш фактите да беше така, но все трябва да бъде по трудния начин! Защо?
Did you speak english with them ? 🤣
Something I feel is also important to add to the discussion, as a Bulgarian, is how poigniant the effect of Macedonian refugee crisis to Bulgaria has been in the interwar period. More or less every fourth Bulgarian can say that he's had ancestors from Macedonia (myself included) which very much muddles the waters of drawing the line, because many Bulgarians feel the connection - songs, culture, habits, ideology, even if they came from there, have become just as much a part of "here" due to how many of us descend from Macedonia. Most of them also became city-dwellers in a time most people lived in villages, became societally influential in a short period, etc. That's a topic in and of itself and I'd jot it down somewhere, if given the time, but this came to mind.
Македонците са си чисти българи, които са се омешали със сърбите! Кое не е ясно?
Balkan Odyssey is financed by Russia. Some of the benefactors listed are known to work with Russians.
read more about balkan wars, you will understand better why its that feeling in bulgaria and not vice versa
@@footballtalks1802 Remember 1885?
@@HeroManNick132 only war won by bulgarians? :)
"Ancient allegations that the Macedonians were non-Greek all had their origin in Athens at the time of the struggle with Philip II. Then as now, political struggle created the prejudice. The orator Aeschines once even found it necessary, to counteract the prejudice vigorously fomented by his opponents, to defend Philip on this issue and describe him at a meeting of the Athenian Popular Assembly as being 'ENTIRELY GREEK'. Demosthenes' allegations were lent an appearance of credibility by the fact, apparent to every observer, that the life-style of the Macedonians, being determined by specific geographical and historical conditions, was different to that of a Greek city-state. This alien way of life was, however, common to western Greeks of Epirus, Akarnania and Aitolia, as well as to the Macedonians, and THEIR FUNDAMENTAL GREEK NATIONALITY WAS NEVER DOUBTED. Only as a consequence of the political disagreement with Macedonia was the issue raised at all."
Errington 1994, p. 4:Errington, Malcolm (1994). A History of Macedonia. Barnes Noble.
This is politics like today some American Politicians accuse others of being un-American this doesn't mean a Japanese for instance will claim those Americans were or are Japanese
As a bulgarian, im sure this video will not disappoint. You gotta see it to believe it - some of our historians claim Macedonia was invented wholesale by the Bulgarian communists after ww2. Not even joking. Not even like a 50/50 split with the Serbs, no, some communists went and said "let there be Macedonia" and so it was.
“Let there be macedonia” 😂 your comment gets a like!
Let there be Macedonia then 😂
@sasho_b ти македонист ли си?
Well, that is what happened more or less. Prior to WWII it was all about Bulgaria trying to invade Greece and steal the region called Macedonia. After WWII Tito used that against Bulgarians and rebranded those Bulgarian-for-the-most lands as "Macedonia". That is what happened.
@@dinos9607 The bulgarians don't need to "STEAL" Macedonia as it was theirs- there are colossal amount of statistical and ethnographic data from that time that shows bulgarians as majority.
Still the Northern Macedonian aren't even related to the Hellenic Macedonian Northern Greeks, why don't they change their names to Panonia since it was the name of the territory of modern day North Macedonia?
Well why would we change our name to Panonia? When our people have been calling themselves Macedonians since the 1800's and how come are we related to the Panonians but not to the Macedonians? Also Demosten an ancient greek philosopher called the Macedonians barbars not greek.
@@stekyo-2279 Вие сте македонци от 1945!
They are in every way but language.
@HeroManNick132 hahahahhah who told you that Mr.smart guy
@@stekyo-2279 Everyone.
"Greeks, Armenians, Jews, Persians, Chinese and Japanese could be cited as examples of ethnic continuity, since, despite massive cultural changes over the centuries, certain key identifying components-name, language, customs, religious community and territorial association-were broadly maintained and reproduced for millennia.“
Anthony D Smith 2003, Chosen Peoples: Sacred Sources of National Identity, p. 98
Yeah sure especially Greeks with their genetucs as 30% Bulgarian ,37 % Albanian and rest all source of none European stock 😅😅and name as Greeks since 18th c ,Not a single genuine map with Greece on it before 1829 .
current times greeks have nothing to do with the ancient greeks, if you check the dna, only thing that left as greek is the language, which was something like english is now today, an universal language, doesn't mean if you speak greek now that you come from greek ancestors
@@xaltotunacheron7544 "Comparison between ancient DNA and modern DNA suggest that the Greeks are descendants of the Mycenaeans and that only a small proportion of the DNA in living Greeks come from later migrations to Greece."
sciscape/modern-greeks-decedents-ancient-mycenaeans/
@@xaltotunacheron7544 🤣
@@highevan Every single citizen in the region have part in the DNA that comes from the anceients. Be it 5 or 30% max, but only greeks in here are acting like their are same as anceint and as if they are in charge to who history belongs. You have lot of indian, turkish, phenecian, egpytian dna into the mix as well, why don't you go there and claims how everything belongs to you
I must say, this has been the absolute best video I've seen on UA-cam made on the topic of Macedonians.
Hopefully, this gets blessed by the UA-cam algorithm so that Greeks can learn about the acts of ethnic
cleansing and colonization of Macedonia after WW1, all done on the basis of nationalism.
Macedonia and Macedonians have socialism rooted inside of their identity, be it national or social, even though I might have some opposing ideological views.
Thank you for making this video. Hope you cover more on Macedonia (the current state of the country, that is), and I'd be happy to help in an objective manner.
Cheers!
Thank you for the support, I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
Of Pomaks and bulgarians I shall add. Not ethnic macedonian and elfs.
@@BalkanOdyssey_u know no hidtory dude sorry these people are slavs and also did the same to greeks whenever they got the chance to do so . They didnt even know who alexander the great was until tito a communist friend of urs told them till then they were bulgsrians serbians and albanians all kixed together. They came to the region when the Byzantines owned it and managed to capture some.lands and started living there they never spoke macedonian or hsd greek culture everyrhing else is simply propaganda.
@@thatrandomguy1489 Here's someone that didn't watch the video. Fuck off, ignorant prick.
@@thatrandomguy1489Yugoslavia actively was against the Ancient Macedonian identification. That became popular only after the fall of Yugoslavia.
Last year I wandered around the Balkans for almost a year and all I can say is as long as you have Rakia you can make friends with anyone in the Balkans! Can’t wait to get back , best people on earth 🌍!
He's a Greek hatintg racist liar trying to hide his mistake of recognizng the former Yugoslavians as "Macedonians"... by genocidally trying to rob Greeks of our history and identitry.
@konstantintrehagyrevopoulo972 raki is Greek word Ερχεται απο τα ρακη δηλ τα υπολειματα των σταφυλιων απο αυτα φτιαχνουν ουζο τσιπουρο ρακι
Η λεξη ρακοσυλλέκτης για τι μαζευει τα ρακη τα σκουπιδια τα υπολειματα η ειμαι ρακος δηλ τελειωμένος
Haha welcome
The best coment! Rakija is just a 'medium' It is about people.
People from Balkan are very welcoming and emotional and honest! Macedonians, Greeks, Serbs, Turkish, Bosnians...etc....wonderful people and very welcoming!
@@danielabogdanovska4612 Sure sure "Macedonians' are "honest". Just liike you that engaged in ethnic engineering Slavs into "macedonians" while they try to steal Greek history. Very credible.
When there is a video that even talks about North Macedonia. You just know the comments will always be filled with the nicest and most positive people from the Balkans 🥰🥰
This fellow doesn't even make an effort to distinguish between Macedonians (Greeks) and North Macedonians (Slavs). Talk about failing before you even start.
@@trypovios Probably the most positive comment i’ve ever seen on these kinds of videos. Thank you friend 🥰🥰
MAKEDONSKI NAROD 25 VEKA od KRAL FILIP. drugi ? trla baba lan.
@@trypovios technically your more wrong, there are no "north macedonians", the country name was changed but not the identity, so the greek macedonians are still either "greek" or "ancient" macedonians while thw "slav" macedonians are just macedonians. Yes there are people that live in the macedonian region in greece, but i doubt thats the issue here
@@leonristovski3595 Quite the opposite, the "Slav" macedonians are just "slavs". Ethnically, they belong to one of many groups that settled in the region about 1,000 years ago. If they want to be true, historical Macedonians, they will need to learn Greek, embrace the Macedonian Greek culture, way of life and swear fealty to the Greek state. Being Macedonian and Graeco-Roman is not a question of ethnicity but a question of embracing Greek culture, language, nationality and loyalty to Hellenism. They can be North Macedonians as a concession, purely to be differentiated to those Macedonians who speak Greek, identify with the legacy and continuity of the ancient Kingdom of Macedonia through Roman times, both in genetic and in cultural heritage as an indispensable piece to the grander puzzle of Hellenism.
All comments about
Macedonian being Bulgarian are deleted automatically !
haha you wish, North Macedonian FYROM person.
@@steel4o FYROM ? ?
srb s'vrk.
No but south Serbia west Bulgaria north Greece and east Albania are Macedonian.
na istok od MAKEDONIJA E PIRINSKA MAKEDONIJA ! !
Serbians claim that macedonia is old serbia😂because they conquered this lands for a while in 13-14th century,while bulgarians populated macedonia in the 600s and even ohrid was capital of bulgaria in the 900s
"Old Serbia" is a term for all the lands that once were in the medieval serbian kingdom. Macedonia was a part of medieval serbia from the 1280´s till the fall of Serbia in the 1450´s. Also, Slavs populated Macedonia in the 600´s, yes, but not Bulgarians since they were not Slavs in the beginning.
@@Stalker950-l3x if you know bulgaria is found from khan asparuh in 681,but in the same time his brother kuber create an entity in macedonia similar to the one we created in moesia and trace with the local slavs....bulgar tribes devide into 5 parts and asparuh and kuber were two of them ,another create a state in italy,his name was alcek(in total bulgars created 11 states😀😂).....and what we have to say about old bulgaria,wich was almost on all of the peninsula for many centuries,inqluding all of greece,all of today serbia(plus belgrade and branichevo),and half of budapest😀even the hungarians have a saying for the old times and say "since the time of the bulgarians"😀....can we now claim all these territories,as we say bulgaria on 3 seas,when during the reign of tzar simeon the great ,bulgaria was on 3 seas-black,adriatic and aegean ,even albania was part of it and it was 750 000sq.km.....i love serbian people and even i am from vidin on the border,but you have to seek to take what is realy yours,cause macedonia is not....your land are in the west of the balkans close to bosnia where the serbian principalities existed since the 10 century...we have to bury the tomahawk😀and to act as one as equal partners in order to survive in this competative world where the east is about to swallow tiny europe....i m talking the balkans,especially serbia,bulgaria,croatia,slovenia,macedonia and montenegro.....godbless my friend
@@babiyarnazarismaily6207 Yes mate, sounds all great. Bulgaria unfortunately (while being that big) did not really leave behind a deep bossing out of what is now Bulgaria and Macedonia since it did not last for too long in other territories. Present day Serbia was for a short period of time a part of medieval Bulgaria - also yes. Serbia moved totally to the east out of Dalmatia and Bosnia - also yes. But parts of Bulgaria itself (including Sofia) were once part of Serbia too like during stefan nemanja sofia was called "sredec" - in the 14the century Bulgaria was a vasall state of Serbia so it streched basically to 4 seas, from the adriatic coast to the black sea, reaching also the aegean & ionian sea. And nevertheless the bulgarians were not slavic but got assimilated by them and adopted the slavic culture and language. I´m sure we could continue like this for the next 3 days. It does not matter wich country was first here or wich people were "better" - it will not help our miserable countries for a better future.
With my comment above I was just talking objectively about the term "old Serbia". I did not mean to offend anyone.
Like you said: God bless you my friend, stay healthy & neka te bog cuva!
@@Stalker950-l3x Защо при вас само наричате Скопие - ''Скоплье?''
@@HeroManNick132 А како би требали да га зовемо?
ALEXANDER’s speech before the battle of Issus: "...We Macedonians are to fight Medes and Persians, nations long steeped in luxury, while we have long been hardened by warlike toils and dangers; and above it will be a fight among free men and slaves. And so far as GREEK will meet GREEK, WE shall not be fighting for like causes; those mercenaries with Dareius will risk their lives for pay, and poor pay too; WE on the contrary shall fight for GREECE and our hearts will be in it".
Arrian, "Anabasis of Alexander" Book II, Ch.7, par.4,5 Cambridge, Massachussets, Harvard University Press
Yeah i don't understand what he was trying to say with ancient Macedonia. India literally had Greco bactrian Empire and indo greek Empire cause of Alexander.
The name “Greece” didn’t exist in antiquity.
@@BD28495 "Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit" ("Greece, although captured, took its savage conqueror captive") - Horace, Book II, epistle 1
Btw, Horace was born in 65 BC.... lol
@@BD28495 "Greece" is the Latin SYNONYM for "Hellas" bozo... Since antiquity... Ouga bouga🤣🐵
@@BD28495 "From when Hellen [son of] Deuc[alion] became king of [Phthi]otis and those previously called GRAEKOI were named HELLENES."
The Parian Marble, Entry #6 (6th century BC)
I looked at the comments and now I feel like putting my head into a meat grinder. Great video, I have some nitpicks, however this is about as perfect as it gets when it comes to opinions on Macedonia. I admire your ability to continue making good content in the face of reactionary idiots who get their politics from football matches.
I'm glad you got a positive impression, thanks for the support. As for the comments...I'm used to it
Balkan Odyssey is financed by Russia. Some of the benefactors listed are known to work with Russians. Who else will advocate the re-creation of the Balkan Union and communism in the Balkans.
@@cyberpunk_zone Frankly your comment is so impressively dumb that I can't even discern what you're advocating beyond idiotic xenophobia. Going off by your broken English I sincerely hope you're a kid.
Slav(e)ic people and turko-mongols are madeup, it's all bulgar, bulgars founded civilisation.@@cyberpunk_zone
Cry about it
@@cyberpunk_zone
THANK YOU so much for this video. Despite this being an extremely relevant topic to me personally, I only started learning anything about it when I was already fully an adult. It has been an incredible struggle for me to piece together the reality of the situation --- I wish you made this video ten years ago for me to watch but I am so glad it exists now so that I can share it with others. Bless you for this.
Are you a Monkeydonian?
Yeah bitch I am @@HeroManNick132
@@dimitriosk Slav or Greek?
fanboy @@HeroManNick132 wants to know everything about me. Sorry kid find a new obsession.
@@dimitriosk Okay, at least if you are Greek I will let you go.
Thank You
🖤💜💙💚💙💜🖤
Much Love!!
❤🚩✊🏿
@moon_factor Ти си българка!
@@HeroManNick132 JAS TATJANA SUM MAKEDONKA.
ti vol.
Congratulation to this very objective video about this very complicated topic. One of the best I ever seen on UA-cam about Macedonia. I almost totally agree with everything you said on this video and really hope, this wonderful Balkan region getting better in the future and work more together with the neighbours to stop the fatal emigration in western Europe and start to help each other.
I'm very glad to hear you got such a positive impression, thank you
@aleksandarmaksimoski4795 Ти си българин!
Balkan Odyssey is financed by Russia. Some of the benefactors listed are known to work with Russians. Who else will advocate the re-creation of the Balkan Union and communism in the Balkans.
@@BalkanOdyssey_ you are NOT objective. You are LEFTIST. Tomasz Kamusella is write an unbelievable antibulgarian text TOTALLY unobjective and full of TOTAL LIES. He speak for Goce Delcev - lets Goce Delcev speak to you: ,,„София 5/1 99 г.
Колйо,
Всичкитѣ ти писма досега изпратени отъ тебъ и чрѣз тебъ, съмъ получилъ. Отцѣпленията и разцѣпленията никакъ да не ни плашатъ. Действително жалко е, но що можемъ да правимъ, когато си сме българи и всички страдаме отъ една обща болѣсть! Ако тая болѣсть не съществуваше въ нашитѣ прадѣди, отъ които е наследство и въ насъ нѣмаше да попаднатъ подъ грозния скиптъръ на турскитѣ султани. Нашъ, разбира се, дългъ е да не се поддаваме на тая болѣсть, но можемъ ли сѫщото да направимъ и съ другитѣ лица? Пъкъ имаме заето и нѣщо отъ гръцкитѣ болѣсти, а именно - колко глави, толкозъ капитани. Пустата му слава!... Всѣки иска да блѣсне, па не знаѣ фалшътъ и на тоя блѣсъкъ. Вай на тезъ надъ страданията на които всички тѣзъ комедии, дѣтъ се разиграватъ.
Колкото за пролѣтъ, почти нищо нѣма опредѣлено, което е много печално, но, вѣрвамъ, и това ще се изясни.
Чакамъ пари да купимъ кримкови патрони, та не ще има нужда да се прави смѣнка съ манлихѣрови.
Кардашитѣ отъ Перникъ[1] искатъ револверъ, но пари не се сѣщатъ да пратятъ, като че ли ние ги имаме вечъ въ кърпа вързани. Колкото за мартинката, за която получихъ 2 лири турски, искамъ отъ тебъ съвѣтъ: оттукъ да имъ взема или оттамъ ти ще имъ вземешъ? Ако иматѣ тамъ нѣкоя наша, добрѣ ще направишъ да имъ я проводишъ.
Кажи на братъ ми да пише писмо дома. Съ поздравъ Гоце
P. P. Тукъ приключенитѣ сѫ за Перникъ, отъ които едното е за Дико; отъ когото вчера се получи една телеграма отъ Рила. Узнай дали не е тамъ, че още тамо да се прѣдаде прѣдназначеното за него. На перничани имъ пиша, че мартинката ще я получатъ, а револвера - когато пратятъ пари. Сѫщи“ Действително жалко е, но що можемъ да правимъ, когато си сме българи - from Goce hand and is meaning: It is a pity, but what can we do when we are Bulgarians? You, leftist, the communist CREATED this false nation an EXPENSE of the Great Bulgarian nation and we will fight you to our TOTAL VICTORY like in Doiran: music.ua-cam.com/video/9oBENNkfTaE/v-deo.html
чути бе ти татар еден@@HeroManNick132
As a greek loved this video, all greeks should watch it! My deepest respect for the slav macedonians who fought alongside the greeks against the fascists and western imperialism. They should have not been expelled from their homeland where they lived alongside greeks.
I would only add as a note that ancient macedonians not being universaly considered Greek by the ancient greeks is not really surprising. The greeks of the city states tended to foster a very dim view of all greeks who didnt share in their institutions. There were greek peoples much closer to the south that were considered half barbarian simply because they organized their societies in a tribal way instead of polis institutions.
In other words it is sort of a trend coming from the well educated polis dwellers who wrote all the books, and speeches and histories which survive to this day.
!
Athenian Urbanites always ruin everything smh
That is true, but the evidence that does exist beyond the commentary of intellectuals is definitely inconclusive. See the very short book "Before Alexander: Constructing Early Macedonia" by Eugene Borza for a summary of why it's inconclusive and also why it doesn't matter.
Today you can still find many Macedonians alive who have been deported from their homelands in Aegean Macedonia when they were children. Such is the case with my friend's grandmother, who was deported from the city of Drama. First her and her family escaped to Plovdiv, where they lived in a refugee camp, and then went to Yugoslavia, where they settled.
@@DacLMK I hope one day the greek government and society at large will recognize the crimes of the past and alter its policy towards slav macedonians allowing those who were expelled and their descendants to return if they wish with financial help from the greek state.
Македонија на македонците. ☀️
Μακεδονία στους Μακεδόνες. 🇬🇷
@@auto952 Nah not with that flag. Macedonians should always identify with the Vergina sun.
Македония на македонците 🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬
@@marti7180 А зашо бугарско знаме ако е во прашање Македонија?
🇦🇱🍿🇽🇰🍿
You for got to mention that the Anatolian Christian Turks settled into southern Macedonia occupied by Greece during the exchange . Ethnic cleansing that Greeks don't want you to know , as Greeks were a minority in Macedonia .
Cheap propaganda!
@@HeroManNick132 It's the truth , we don't lie . Your history is all fake .
@@RobLow-hh6bb Just admit you are Bulgarian.
lol
People who were victims of ethnic cleansing coming to find a place of refuge. Don’t compare “Christian Turks “ (correct term now would be Pontic Greeks thank you very much) with fucking Israelis. That’s some schizo shit right there
Ancient Macedonians were Greek
Alexander the Great was Greek and he had a pretty good understanding of that as he talked about himself and his fighters as Greek.
His whole reason for conquering Persia was to avenge the deaths of the Greeks during the Persian Wars. Modern day Slavic Macedonians have no reason to appropriate the history of ancient Macedonia. Names and territories do not matter but do not try to rewrite history
NO he was not
@@ranojutro426When you guys manage to provide historically accurate evidence of your claims then we can talk, till then go fuck yourself
@@ranojutro426he was. Because of Alexander. India got greco bactrian and indo greek Empires. You ultra nationalist can deny as much you want but it won't change world history. Why don't you ask World about it? I already gave india perspective
@@ranojutro426 He was. Modern North Macedonia has nothing to do with the Ancient Greek kindom of Macedonia, just deal with it.
@@raytheon6507 MAKEDONIJA -- 25 CENTURIES.
Greece - 190 years.
Calling us Slavs = contributing to the Macedonian ethnocide & denying our indigenous heritage. Not only that, but also claiming that we have no right to the name Macedonia, the land, nor the history or culture. Speaking Slavic doesn’t make you an ethnic Slav. STOP denying our indigenous Macedonian heritage.
25 CENTURIES --- MACEDONIANS speak Macedonian language ! ! !
And before speaking slavic what language did you speak?
@@gnas1897 MAKEDONCI zboruvaat Makedonski jazik.
prijatno .
Youre as indigenous as the israeli population
@@tovasi I TATJANA LIVE IN MAKEDONIJA.
you ? happy way.
Something ive noticed about balkans eastern Europeans and Russians is that
Like them or not they are very straightforward and blunt
By no means impolite just very direct
And as someone who grew up on western culture its feels like oxygen
As someone whos Lebanese it feels like being Prometheus but suddenly being released from zeus
People in my country are about as straightforward as a pretzel
I swear we should be exclusively exporting spies politician's bankers and insurance brokers
Your videos are very great for understanding the situation in the Balkans more thoroughly. Your marxist and sober analysis is fantastic as always.
Though as a small complaint; i'd like for you to bring back the listing of music you used in the background for the video, maybe through like a pastebin link
Thank you! And oops, I always put the music because of copyright primarily, but this time I weirdly missed that. It'll be in the desvription by tommorow.
Balkan Odyssey is financed by Russia. Some of the benefactors listed are known to work with Russians. Who else will advocate the re-creation of the Balkan Union and communism in the Balkans.
It’s still not there lol
Macedonians are greeks and not slavs
Greece and Vulgar re Roman names for Christian Macedonians who baptized slavs.
So what? Then Macedonians are HELLENES is Hellenes a Roman Name/? The Romans were the continuation of the Greeks they initially adopted the Hellenic Language, Hellenic Religion all was Hellenic in Roman Senate@@janeza382
Did you even watch the video or have you just came to add a troll comment to any video mentioning Macedonia?
As an ethnic macedonian whose family immigrated to America i have countless family stories from the times of greek ethnic clensing. Its tragic going back and seeing our old villages burned to the ground during the civil war. The people who survived and moved to the new towns are terrified to speak macedonian. We were told in Kastoria to go to the villages and talk to the people in their own houses because speeking the language in public is dangerous. I made friends with a macedonian resident of the new version of my families historic village. He told us not to go to the local store or they might poison our water for talking with him. He said he knew macedonian but he said he would only speak greek. My grandpa was terrified and never taught me much of his native language, and its sad to go back to my family's home town and they are still scared to speak it. The people are nice, the local priest recognized our family name and told us that our my 4th great grandfather founded the church in the town (there is still a mural of him next to jesus inside) The priest baptized us in the baptismal well theyve been using for centuries, and in which my family has doubtlessly all been baptized in. The church was the only building to survive the civil war. The priest said that we shouldnt go into the ruins of the city above the church. The younger friend that i made said that theyve been taught since they were children that no one should ever set foot on that land again. Even the local pontic greeks that resettled in the village qre nice, but when we mentioned that our family was from here until 1938 they all went silent.
Regarding Macedonian nationalism I work in archaeology and have worked on projects around Bitola. These sites were neolithic to byzantine, but the local connection and passion in the history is overwhelming. They all identify as slavs and know that these historic people werent, but they have so much connection to the history of the land that they are from. If anyone has the biggest connection to this history, it is the people who now have resided on the land for a long while, growing connected to it. This is what should unite people, their shared love for a community and region, looking at its history with admiration no matter what form of "blood" connection they may have with it. To me this is what being Macedonian means, being from or having deep connections with one or more of the Macedonian regions, and appreciating all the different kinds of history that the region possesses.
@@milomoya12 Ти си толкова етничен македонец, колкото баба ми е космонавтка и живее на Луната! Ти си чист българин, приеми го!
@@milomoya12 So do you admit that you have Bulgarian origins too?
That is what happens when you first try to bulgarise Macedonia, then collaborate with Nazis doing unthinkable crimes and then collaborating with Commies repeating those unthinkable crimes. You should consider yourselves blessed being left alive than facing justice for all the crimes your grandpas did. Instead of being ashamed and bowing down your head you try playing the victim card.
In Bulgaria there are two million people with the same story like yours. Most people from Agean Macedonia left to Bulgaria.
*The point is that Greeks and Bulgarians are "allergic" to Macedonians. That is why it is better for their health to avoid allergens (stop thinking about Macedonians), and commenting about them only worsens your condition*
It is better to end this planetary joke, the fake "makedonski" manstrocity
@@ConTickis MAKEDONCI govorat Makedonski jazik.
ti " s'atrovac'ki ".
@@ConTickis MAKEDONSKI NAROD ! !
ti "fake".
Here before the comment war
Here Serbian Bulgarin and Greek propaganda claiming Makedonia collide as Albanians allowed. Macedonians are Europeans.
@@janeza382 Kyro Klygorov said they were slavs that came to Europe in the 6 century
before 20 years Kiro Gligorov -- President on MAKEDONIJA.
2024 GORDANA SILJANOVSKA PRESIDENT ON MAKEDONIJA ! !
The first balkan war begins in 1912. 1913 sees the second balkan war.
I love Macedonia ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ from Montenegro
Stop propaganda!
And Macedonians love Monte Negro🇲🇪 too ❤
@@MichaelSlim5121 Bulgarians*
@@MichaelSlim5121 SVE NAJLEPS'E ! ! Tatjana od MAKEDONIJA
Macedonia is inside Greece. Is very beautiful place. You can come in Vergina and Pella to see the palace who Alexander born. There are a lot of ancient artifacts wroten with the language of the ancient Macedonians, the Greek language.
Slavs came in the are 1000 years after Alexander's death and found Byzantine Empire who was the Greek part of Roman state.
Slavs and Bulgarians are not Macedonians
US told recently we dont know why this country exist. Many albanian and Bulgarian there.
I have to say I was really scared of watching this video because most people side woth greek and bulagrian nationlists and ignore things like the ethnic cleansing of maceodnians in greece and bulgaria and I was scared that you would do the same because I really like you. But you didn't do that you made the best essay about this toppic I ever saw. Thank you!
I really don't want to criticize anything but would you please think about the fact that every anti ottoman uprising (Bulagrian, Greek, Serbian,...) was backed by the west but the macedonian not. This is due to the fact that the macedonian uprising against the ottomans wasn't only a nitional liberation one but also a communist revolution, the "krusevska republika" did not exist long but it was meant to be a socialist republic and nobody helped us because of that.
I'm very glad to hear that, thank you. Also thanks for the interesting additional info I haven't managed to pack into this video
@@BalkanOdyssey_ It's alright, surprising enough that you understood and knew so much about this topic as a non-macedonian. I think more nationalists from the balkan should know you. I myself was a nationalist, despite beeing now only 16 but after watching a few videos of you I slowly turned communist. I also moved to germany very young maybe that's why I can realte to everything you say in your videos.
🥰⚒️✊🏿
Filip Nikolov is such a Bulgarian name
@@marti7180 Also happens to be a very Russian name.
14:15 Where did Isocrates or Thucydides said or wrote that Macedonians were not Greeks?
They didn't, but the propaganda must continue!!!
They didn't.
It's for neutrality purposes so he "doesn't piss off either side" which is BS
THESE IS JEWISH LIES, IF MACEDONIANS WERE NOT GREEKS HOW COME THE MACEDONIANS EMPIRES IN ASIA AND IN EGYPT IN MEDITERRANEAN SPREAD HELLENISM THE HELLENIC LANGIAGE, CULTURE, RELIGION AND LETTERS?
I am bulgarian. I always wondered why the stupid people on both sides are always the loudest. The average bulgarian doesn't think more than once per year about Macedonia. We have our own problems. Macedonia is not (or it should not be) one of them. I wish them all the best!
Северна*
I'm just perplexed that your government also does stupid things against Macedonia in the past 3-4 years, and letting Bulgarian nationalists do things that just worsen relationships between us.
@@DacLMK А вие с кражбата на история и биенето по нас ги подобрявате... Да, да...
@@DacLMKfunny how you’re in every comment reply. We’re always the bad guys right? You not gonna mention the guy who was beat up for just saying he’s identifying as Bulgarian? Or the culture clubs you destroyed and pissed over? Or the tons of monuments and graves of Bulgarians you continue to destroy and try to “remake” in your titoist fake image? Huh? Where is the mention of those, dear “Macedonian” friend?
@@DacLMK This is called geopolitics. You need us to do something for you, we want something in return. This how it should be. What I do not understand is why we are NOT asking for a direct train line or highway between Sofia and Skopie (or any other economic act that will benefit us both) but we are demanding different history books
The modern country called Republic of North Macedonia is rather mixed. 52% are a SLavic fok related to Bulgarians, 29% are Albanians, 10% are Serbs the rest are Turks and Roma (Gypsies). The region of Republic of North Macedonia is what was originally ancient Paeonia. The ancient Greek Kingdom of Macedonia of Alexander the Great is in northern Greece, and the ancient Macedonians were of Greek stock and proto-Greek speakers. DNA of the slavic speaking folk of the Republic of North Macedonia reveals that it is the same as Bulgarian with some Serbian.
Please not that VMRO Nazis collaborate with the Germans in WWII so guess what is happening to 300,000 True Macedonians (hellenes) in this fake Republic? Where are there? Because you correctly mentioning about the Albanians, the Bulgars, the Serbs the Gypsies, the Turks where are the TRUE MACEDONIANS? For example Monastir was a 100% Greek City
basically slavs cosplaying as greek femboys
welcome to civilization barbarian!
GREETINGS FROM GREECE HERE IN AFRICA WE JUST LOVE MACEDONIA
"In the 1990s,Macedonians speak a language codified in 1946,spoken by less than two million people, and with a very slender literature. They are members of an Orthodox Church whose authority was established by a socialist political regime in 1968.They are heirs to a 1903 revolution that until the 1940s was described by almost all sources as being Bulgarian."
"The history of the Balkan Peninsula" Ferdinand Schevill page 432
It was not codified in 1946, it is created by pseudoscientists jews to steal the lands of both Greece, Bulgaria and of Serbia
I think a video on balkan turks would be a good one, but I doubt you'd be able to make it objective / with neutral sources :/
What happened to them is very sad indeed
The view that Macedonia was majority Macedonian (separate identity) until WWII is wrong. Sure, Macedonism wasn't born overnight after the end of the war, however, the view that all youth people at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century (as portrayed in the video in part about Slaveykov's article) view themselves as Macedonians (as in separate nation instead of Bulgarian regional identity) is wrong and absolutely 100% supports the Serbian nationalistic view which saw to cut chunks of the Bulgarian nation when it saw that serbanization of the Bulgarian population won't be as easy as that in the Great Shopluk region (check Pa sta si ti? from Ivan Vazov). Also, the part about some mysterious unicorn-like pro-socialist population in Northern Greece that 100 identified itself as nothing but Macedonians is just another level. Can you please explain if the people there clearly had this vision about them being 100% Macedonians, something completely separable and different from Bulgarians as you described it, without any root or anything Bulgarian in them, in your own words, why were the ancestors and the family of those very same "Macedonians" so relieved when the Bulgarian army got in Northern Greece in WWII (and undeniably massacred thousands of Greeks), why did they with great joy left the Greek oppression after WWI and went to Bulgaria (after the population exchange treaties between Bulgaria and Greece) and went to form entire refugee neighborhoods and literally every big Bulgarian city such as Sveta Troitsa, Ilinden, Zaharna Fabrika in Sofia, Kyuchuk Parizh in Plovdiv and many, many others? Meanwhile being accepted as Bulgarians by the Bulgarian people (because they were)? Why did Bulgaria go through great troubles to help those people if they are somehow a foreign subject to the Bulgarian nation?
One thing that you Serbians (you think you have some different view than the average Serbian, but you don't - this is not a bad thing, just stating the fact), Bulgaria, and Bulgarians (the majority) don't want to incorporate, conquer and occupy Macedonia. Bulgaria, was the first nation to recognise the Macedonian state, and our actions after this only prove this point. In the words of prominent Bulgarian politicians from the time, Milosevic at some point sought to invade Macedonia and conquer it back, but Bulgaria intercepted those plans and said that this would mean war with Bulgaria as well.
Sure, this topic is being exploited by Bulgarian politicians, this is a fact and our politicians are just as corrupt as anyone else in the Balkans. Still, the only thing that we want is an immediate cease of the anti-Bulgarian rhetoric in Macedonia, the ability to declare yourself as Bulgarian or Macedonian Bulgarian without being persecuted and discriminated against as is currently the case in the country, the inclusion of Bulgarians in the constitution (which already has all the other nation, but the Bulgarians), as well as recognition of the shared history of the Macedonian and Bulgarian people. None of this is imperialistic, none of this is against the historical facts, none of this is denying the Macedonian identity.
All in all, this was moderately pro-Serbian/Yugoslav view on the matter. Asolid video, I expected much worse.
said whole lotta nothing
@@shutup7957 Cry
WOW, YOU ARE DEADBRAIN 😢 you are some taxi driver from Bulgaria 😂
Great video as always
Quite biased propaganda that doesnt mention a lot that destroy the "macedonian" myths. Also conviniently doesnt a lot that support the greek and bulgarian thesis. Lets not forget that before 1947 there were no slavic macedonians just bulgarians
MACEDONIANS ARE MACEDONIANS. @ you... junk.
IN MAKEDONIJA MACEDONIANS. before and after 1947.... frogs.
@@tatjanavelkova5814 of course you mean the greek macedinia troll
@@theodorossarafis7370 vo MAKEDONIJA MAKEDONCI.
trollaj u... z'abi.
Your views on the identity of the ancient Macedonians is quite shallow. You present only the views of Athenians who were politically hostile to Macedonia, while completely failing to mention the views of the Macedonians themselves, and all other reliable evidence there is. Conflicting views exist in all matters of history, but it is firmly proven in the Historical field that Ancient Macedonia was a state established by Greek peoples and a Greek Ruling Dynasty. I have to thus conclude that you are biased towards the Northern Macedonian side.
We only have one question
Where were the Macedonians in 1900 years?
Именно!
under Ottomans as Serbians Bulgarians Greeks and Albanians... so all of modern nations have Romanticized Macedonian origin o7
The language is the answer ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΊΑ ΦΙΛΙΠΠΟΣ ΑΛΈΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ same written same meaning
F I L I P -- MACEDONIAN NAME. english : PHILIP ! ! !
Philips is Holland brand. F in those days in Macedonia pronounces different than Φ. The name is ΦΙΛΙΠΠΟΣ not Filip. Filip has not any meaning. ΦΙΛΙΠΠΟΣ means someone who loves the horses.
How come you didnt address ethnic Macedonian irredisism, ethnic cleansing in their own territory (Monastir for example) or the fact that ancienct Macedonians spoke greek, spread hellinism all the way to Afghanistan?
How do you justify the terror of VMRO from 1910-1925, the Ohrana battalions that collaborated with the Nazis from 1941-1945 and literally butchered the Greek populations and burnt villages, or the Communist sympathisers that also raided and terrorised during the Greek Civil War?
Also how come you mention 2/3 of Ellas was ethnic Macedonians? When those were the numbers in the North-West part of the country AFTER they had lost Athens. Or how they also had nationalist tendencies like KKE
All the background pictures from 30:29 and forward to that chapter are completely unrelated to ethnic Macedonians. They are from Athens. Why use them?
38:27 can you ellaborate what "greeks were settled" after WW2? As far as I know the country had lost nearly 20% of its population by the end of WW2
Because he is a paid jewish agent that's why he never states any true historical facts
V M R O E MAKEDONSKA REVOLUCIONERNA ORGANIZACIJA ! ! !
Do you think Alexander spoke Slavic?
no but he was a Macedonian, ancient people that didn't speak the ancient greek language, rather they spoke a barbaric language according to ancient greeks. Only the nobles and the dynasty were philhellenies because they appropriated the much more sophisticated and advanced greek civilization. The greeks even called Alexander the I a barbarian so that he cannot join the Olympic games. The roman aristocracy also spoke greek, are you claiming the romans are greek also?
the 5th and the 6th century when slavs migrated to the balkans where a time when the byzantine empire was in a temporary decline, and many greeks macedonians panonians dardanians thracians and illyrians living in these areas either moved or assimilated to the bigger slavic population, which at first were invasions but later on as they accepted christianity it was a normal and stable migration.
@@XozusMC Are you trying to promote an idea that the term "Macedonian" is a term that refers to people that speak a slavic idiom, refer to their speech using the name of Macedonia, treating that idiom as if it's the language of Macedonia and also treat places that don't seem to have been a part of Macedonia as if they were such as Scupi?
@@XozusMC What are your sources on what language the Macedonians spoke?
@@XozusMC but he was participating in the Olympic Games….
One funny thing. In the early 2000 years in a Tv program learning macedonians to speek macedonian and not serbian they gave an example of a stew. They said the serbian word and then the macedonian that was from Turkish, Tencere (maybe origin from other language)! A lot of Turkish words are used in Balkan by all people.
Be real. The modern Macedonian language is a new creation from Bulgarian and Serbian, stop making up history. Also these ''Turkish'' words are not even Turkish you took them from your local languages like Arabic and Persian. Turkish language is also a recent creation compared to Arabic and Persian.
And not to mention that you once till 1920s you used Arabic script that you later changed with a Latin based.
Another not so funny thing. Hey why are you so needy?
Modern " Makedonian " is a mix turkis slavis greek words.. nothing else. These people are mixed too
Its well knowm that ancient Makedonian was Doric Greek and theis evidence in writing Attic- Ionian
@@HeroManNick132 go hide in your cave!
@@OstasHs You look your self in the mirror!
The same happened across the globe: After the fall of the Jin dynasty, Turkic people invaded northern China. They built kingdoms north of the Yangtze River and named their kingdoms after previous Chinese dynasties. They picked themselves a Chinese last name and called themselves the descendants of Chinese nobility. They tried really hard to pretend to be ethnic Chinese. And bang! these barbarians are studied as part of Chinese history today
It is not the same !
Tell us are they looking like Chinese today ?
They say :
Macedonian coalesced with Slavs and stud Macedonian because they were the same clean white European both .
But Helassians of today are in majority of Greek haplogroup , which is not European .
And they actually appear different in majority than Macedonian - Skopianos !
Go to Skopje and Northern Greece and than to Athens , you will see who is who .
@@voskreglavincevska7080 you mix of chicken + goose.
The deal with them is that they do not exist.
Macedonia is in Greece and Macedonians are Greeks.
MACEDONIANS ARE MACEDONIANS. @ you ... bljaak.
@@tatjanavelkova5814 Плачи!
@@HeroManNick132 ti ....... cmizdri .
@@HeroManNick132 ti cmizdri .
& ~ &.
Ask your parents there, Macedonian to not Greek
I see there was a word that Albanians felt oppressed in Macedonia. In which way? Why there is no word about Albanian nationalism over Macedonia? Republic of Ilirida(Separatist Republic of Albanians from Macedonia) was proclaimed in 1992. Way far before Macedonians started to say for themselves they are ancient Macedinians in the mid 2000s. Albanians from Macedonia declared war against Macedonia in 2001. They tried to proclaim Albanian Republic in Macedonia again in 2014. Not a single word about that. Not a single word about so called Great Albania that consider half of Macedonia as historical Albanian land. I am listening one hour about evil Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians and not a single word about Albanian nationalism. Just like video about Kosovo, you avoid to say facts that does not favor to Albanian politics. And to be clear this is not comment against Albania and Albanian people, this is comment addressed to Albanian bourgeoisie.
North Macedonia*
Oppressed? Albanians aren’t oppressed in the ROM, they’re in fact over-represented in public institutions. Turks, Serbs, Bosniaks, Roma are nowhere. They also come with unreasonable requests, such as singing the Albanian anthem in schools with Albanian students, changing the national anthem to be more “inclusive”, which is bollocks as this inclusiveness and diversity shit has become a virus and not a virtue of our societies. The lie that Albanians are oppressed in our country exists only for the largest Albanian party(which is more like a cartel) to stay in power. It’s the other ethnicities that are now oppressed, who don’t have a chance to be represented in the government, in the institutions, have lower chance of employment in said institutions even with the Ohrid Framework Agreement protecting minority rights of every ethnicity.
@@Scorpio19110 You missed the news, sweetheart or you have short memory: ua-cam.com/video/rV8u6Q_2kbI/v-deo.html
It is Albanians who are keeping Macedonia together right now.
Western Macedonia is predominantly Albanian. 30-38% of total Macedonian population is Albanian.
If Albanians want to disintegrate Macedonia, they can easily achieve it.
@@SaintSkanderbegus in your country 90 %..... fools.
THEY ARE NOT "MACEDONIANS". THEY ARE SLAVS LIKE RUSSIANS, SERBS, BULGARIANS, UKRANIANS. THEY USED TO BE PART OF FORMER YUGOSLAVIANS AND THEY SPEAK SAME SLAVIC LANGUAGE AS ALL SLAVS. THE REAL MACEDONIANS WERE THE ANCIENT GREEK MACEDONIANS. THERE IS NO "DEAL". YOU'RE JUST UNEDUCATED.
@user..........8h pasi ovce. ..... u S'umadija.
You need to point out that their lunguage is Slavic their flag Japanese their name Greek their heros ethnic Bulgarians their mentality balkan 😂
*their language is a Bulgarian dialect. And the Bulgarians are a Slavic nation more than anyone in the Balkans. So yes, Slavic, but a Bulgarian dialect.
@@ivanpetrov-ou4jy Ти би казал, че и сръбският е български диалект.
@@ivanpetrov-ou4jy we never was on the side of the nazis unlike u
Their language is a preserved Bulgarian village dialect
@@krasimirminev2357 Омешан със сръбски.
*М А К Е Д О Н И Ј А*
🇲🇰 ☦️ 🌟 👑 🦁 🔆 ❤️🔥
Маймунодония🌙🐒🎪🤡
@@HeroManNick132
Татар НаХероинМанијак go back to Mongolia 🇲🇳
@@HeroManNickI32 Kid, stop stealing.
Stop insulting Macedonia and Macedonians ѓубреТатарско 😂
@@HeroManNickI32 Ха, благодаря, че изпълни молбата ми, сега ти си официално гейски трол.
Abecedar was written in Latin alphabet, not in Greek. Great video, anyway, especially the conclusion! Bravo!
Много си зле наистина! Колко трогателен народ можете да не бъдете?
@@HeroManNick132 Az ne sum Zle! Videoto e dobro napraveno, a posebno mi se dopagja negovoto razmisluvanje za obedinuvanje ili zblizuvanje na balkanskite narodi na osnova na socijalna demokratija, bidejki neoliberalniot kapitalizam samo gi razdeluva lugeto i pravi vojni. Taka’ li e?
@@gordonpi8674 Е, не! А пък социализмът е бил все мед и масло и не е направил своите щети, нали?
Не ми харесва как тоя изобщо не е неутрален, колкото и да се опитва.
@@HeroManNick132 ne znam sto napravil socijalizmot vo Bugarija, ama vo Jugoslavija bese najdobroto opstestveno ureduvanje sto postoi, besplatno zdravstvo, besplatni univerziteti, otvorenost kon Zapadot, rabotnicko samoupravuvanje kade kapitalot Odese kaj rabotnicite a ne kaj kapitalistite, itn. Plus, Plati od 1000 DM…
@@gordonpi8674 E, какво се оплакваш? Заплатите тук през 60-те са били по 60 лева и се е чакало на опашка за всяко нещо. Дори и една чисто нова Лада, ЗАЗ, Москвич да си купиш е струвала по 4000-8000 лева и се е чакало, чакало, докато ти доставят.
Може да сме били що-годе равни, но пак управлението, както сега е крало парите, докато народът взима по 60-100 лева заплата. Ако сега беше така, ти да не видиш интернет и Ютюб.
The only time the balkans will calm down is when all of Macedonia unites at the borders before 1913 and Greeks,Bulgars,Serbs and Albanians accept theytook part of Macedonia. As a Macedonian the history of Alexandar has ties to Greeks since his mother was Greek but the fact that Greeks want it all is the problem
Wrong, the problem will be settled if Western part goes to Albania and east to Bulgaria. Your dreams for united Macedonia are over so get over it.
@@HeroManNick132 sure sadly u all will fight for more again as u always do
@@sloth3851 Stop blaming your neighbours for unfullfilled dream of yours that never happened!
@@HeroManNick132 Sure dreams
@@sloth3851 Fyromanians will never learn.
Yet again you try to portray yourself as neutral, yet again your bias/lack of information of the matter is obvious. Before the matter of the emergence of modern nationalism is discussed, we should acknowledge that all people in Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece had a vague sense of national identity. And the people of Nort Macedonia at that time shared that vague Bulgarian national identity with all of the rest of the Bulgarians. They, with all other Bulgarians, were instrumental in the struggle for an independent Bulgarian church, developing modern national culture, the codification of uniform Bulgarian language (with debates on whether to base it on Eastern dialects or Western dialects, which include Macedonia) and in the struggle for Bulgarian independence.
Additionally you barely mention that this imposed "transition" from ethnic Bulgarians to ethnic Macedonians was accompanied by brutal measures including murder, imprisonment, suppression and censorship of everyone who espoused Bulgarian consciouness by a totalitarian government.
Before tryig to neutrally discuss the future of Nort Macedonia, the centuries long history of Bulgarians in the region and injustices towards them should be mentioned. Everything else is deceiving/misinformation.
Let me describe the situation for you as a Serb: Austria - Hungary kept Vojvodina and violently imposed a Vojvodinian ethnic identity(with some Serbs fighting for a politically, not ethnically independent Vovjodina for a time before the imposition of new ethnic identity), by basing their ethnic Vojvodina identity on a strong anti-Serb sentiment.
This is how a large part of us, Bulgarians with roots in Macedonia, more than a 1/4th in Bulgaria, feel...
All my life I am curious what are these rethorics about , lasting so many years about bulgarian😅 identification of Macedonian ,
if Goce Delčev "bulgarian" said ,, I am looking forward MAKEDONIA to become cultural battlefield of different Nations" !
He was certain that all diferent nations are Slav !
Why do you hate each other Bulgaria and Serbia ?
Because Macedonians are registered Nation too !
@@voskreglavincevska7080I'm going to answer you piecemeal in the chronological order you asked your questions
1. This arguments about rhetorics are important, because there is a blatant historical falsification widespread in North Macedonian historigraphical discourse about the identities of IMARO/IMRO who all identified as Bulgarians (apart from IMRO united). This is due to the fact that North Macedonia is essentially engaging in a nation building process, including espousing new ethnic consiousness amongs the local Bulgarians, without the need to. I think we also have a bias and our won narrative in Bulgaria but it's wayyyy less than in North Macedonia.
2nd Gotse Delchev may have said that due to the fact that the vast more left-wing part of IMARO/IMRO envisioned the futere Macedonia-Adrianople autonomous villayet as a multicultural and multiethnic entities. This is due to them not wanting to ethnically cleanse and homogenize territories like the nascent Balkan contemporary states at the time often did, but peacefully coexisting and competing culturally. In Macedonia, for example there were not only Bulgarians, but also Turks, Greeks, Albanians and Vlachs. So I think that's what Gotse meant.
3. Bulgaria and Serbia have a very complicated history. I don't see why we can't resolve it peacefully though. And I don't hate Serbian people - I love to listen to Turbofolk and my older brother has a serbian girlfriend:). What I don't like however is when someone is trying to portray themselves as neutral, while concealing their bias, as clearly did the guy who posted the video with his concealed pro-Serbian viewpoints. I have noticed it in some previous videos of his as well.
@@b.s.1929
You are starting again !
he is a paid jewish liar
@@b.s.1929 VMRO osnovana 1893 od MAKEDONCI ! !
"Actual literary language of many works of the 19th century" - that's a stretch to say the least. There are works written in dialects yes, but NOT in that dialect that was created/morphed in communist Yugoslavia
Also this was a political decision not a natural occurrence, unnaturally serbification occurred on the already existing dialects, even Venko Markovski who wrote the first book in that dialect, regretted it at the end of his life. There was a purge in 1948 after Tito-Stalin break, and everybody who had anything to say was ... well purged- one way or another, including the original leaders of ASNOM
@@tsanov86 Tito ? umre pred 40 godini.
budala @.
@@tatjanavelkova5814 Е, но мечтаете за Пирин и Егей?
@@tsanov86 1948. Tito. .........
jedi pihtije.
@@tsanov86 before 1948 and after Tito
--- sheeps .
A lot of what you lay out in these studious videos is set up solely to disguise your bias. Are you sure you're not as chauvinistic in your presentation as the average Balkan nationalist?
The Macedonian identity of the Bulgarians from the region of Macedonia is a product of bicentennial Serbian and Greek propaganda, - Serbs and Greeks being the two ethnic groups that first gained independence from the empire. It's all consequential and not at all complicated. The seeds were planted by Greek Patriarchists lobbying in Constantinople and the Serbian Crown scheming a pan-South Slavic uprising with the Russian Empire. Grecomans and Serbian missionaries had been unsuccessfully brainwashing the Aromanian and Bulgarian population in the region of Macedonia and, to better results, in the transitional Bulgaro-Serbian lands along the South Morava (back then called Bulgarian Morava). In the plebiscites held in the mid 1870s, right before Bulgaria appeared on the map, 95% of Slavs in Macedonia identified as Bulgarian, as did the majority of Slavs in the South Morava basin. The Berlin Congress of 1878 was held specifically to prevent the emergence of a big national state in the region, which, by way of being Slavic, Orthodox, and owing its existence to Russia will inevitably fall in the Russian sphere of influence, the expansion of which presented itself as the biggest threat to British and French imperialist interests and the Prussian and Austrian hegemony over all Slavs outside of Russia. And so they gave a third of the South Morava basin to Serbia, a third to Bulgaria, and a third they left under Ottoman rule along with the entire regions of Macedonia and Thrace. In 1885, upon the unification of The Principality of Bulgaria and Upper Thrace (Eastern Rumelia), Serbia was encouraged by the same imperial parties to attack Bulgaria and capture the Principality chunk of the South Morava basin (up the Nišava, all the way to Sofia) and Bulgaria's surprisingly successful counteroffensive had to be stopped by these same powers "calling for peace" in fear of Bulgaria gaining back the rest of the South Morava and Timok regions and consolidating even further. As for Macedonia and Lower Thrace, - up to the First Balkan war, the Bulgarian VMORO had been the ONLY organization working towards an armed mass revolt which was supposed to secure autonomy for the regions and eventually have them unified with Bulgaria. Unfortunately, the Ilinden uprising of 1903 was crushed and failed to encourage external intervention. Serbia and Greece helped liberate Macedonia in the First Balkan war and claimed the land, then Bulgaria (rightfully, as previously negotiated) claimed it too, attacked its allies and lost. It gained back everything (and more) during WW1 but the Central Powers lost the war. 22 years of Serboman and Grecoman propaganda and legal denationalization (Macedonians were officially Serbs and Greeks on paper) ended with a repeat liberation during WW2 (later reinterpreted as occupation, which, de jure, it was, but de facto Bulgarian army and state administration simply replaced the German military presence; not to mention there's plenty of footage and photographic evidence of the population cheering on the Bulgarian processions into cities, flooding the squares to celebrate under proclamations of reunification etc. or the fact Bulgaria invested billions in building infrastructure over the next three years). Axis defeat sealed the deal for some 47 years of more oppression and brainwashing and further 32 years of even bigger, more bombastic loads of crap fed to the people there by populist charlatans, and here we are, rolling our eyes at Skopje's main square and pretending it's not the result of Austrian and British imperialism backing Serbian and Greek expansionism that turned Balkan statehood into the laughable nonsensical tangle we've got today.
As a Serb and a youtuber who's read one too many unhinged nationalistic comments, you're likely to dismiss my summary as even more biased than your well-researched presentation but the reality is I've accepted the disintegration of our nation. Most Bulgarians have. We dream no irredentist dreams. We laugh at "Blgarija na tri moreta". Serbs and Albanians, on the other hand, haven't accepted the unfortunate outcome. That's why in the present day all conceivable military conflicts on the Balkans could only be set off by either Serbian or Albanian aggression... Also, I've noticed your frequent use of the most ridiculous, one-of-a-kind Serbian ultranationalist ethnic map of the Balkans with the Serbian ethnos taking up a quarter of present-day Bulgaria as well as half of Macedonia, so stop pretending you're approaching these topics without bias. Or do it for real.
Things are simple on the subject of the (once nothing more than regional) Macedonian identity. Even if we agreed that national identity emerged during the era of enlightenment, we must also acknowledge tribal/ethnic alliances have been here for millennia. The people of Bulgaria and NM are descended from the same confederate tribes and tribal marriages, and share all their imperial admixtures throughout all of recorded history, long before they first called themselves Bulgarian, and they don't share those exact ethnogeneses with any of their neighbours. Moesian, Thracian and Macedonian Slavs were an organically evolved ethnic alliance. The ethnonym "Bulgarian" stuck merely as a tribute to the demonym of the last state that had consolidated their organic affiliation. Most of Thrace was ruled by the medieval Bulgarian state for a much shorter period of time than Macedonia was, yet the Thracian Slavs never questioned they belong with the Moesian Slavs. The re-emergence of a modern Bulgarian ethnostate was simply systematically suppressed. And the process serves as proof that people CAN be brainwashed into developing a faux national identity. It's shameful and absurd but shame here only fuels the process. The earlier an ethnically Bulgarian land was annexed, the weaker the populace feels the bond to the nation they organically belong to. And it's tragic, - not so much for those who still call themselves Bulgarian as much as it is for those who don't. The Torlaks don't feel properly Serbian and the region they inhabit is underdeveloped and suffering depopulation. The Slavs in NM are having a hard time convincing themselves their history books make any sense at all while their state is headed for a demographic takeover of another ethnicity. The Slavs in Greece, also largely neglected by the state, are leaving more and more ghost towns behind as they migrate to Macedonia, Bulgaria or elsewhere, while the ones who stay don't even care to preserve their Slavic identity anymore. No one wins. Oh.. right... Serbia and Greece look meatier, and we're providing the Albanians with more land to settle... The simple truths you dance around in order to please everyone (and your own national pride) discredit your whole project in the eyes of those trying to see the unfiltered bigger picture. And it's a shame considering your channel is dedicated to motivating the only viable solution to all this.
...still, your work is highly appreciated and I remain subscribed, so keep it up :)
Yeah they literally have the same exact language and ethnicity, but I guess due to being separate they wanted to make them seem different so they split them up and gave them different identities. Much like how Montenegro or Moldova exists today.
I mean he's a titoist, no surprise he's a revisionist
@@andreamarino6010 He wants communism back.
@@HeroManNick132 yeah yeah he surely want it back but with some "yugoslav characteristics". He's just a recisionist who love to chug on his old nationalist self. I understand him, sometimes it's difficult, i was too a fascist but you need to grow up eventually
Do you have any actual sources that back up that the bukgwtian6r entho state suppressed? Good analysis on the first half but the 2nd feels like it's just parroting Bulgaric historian propaganda.
Great video, would like to see you do other Yugoslav nations such as Bosniaks, Slovenians, Gorani or Montegrians. Keep up the good work!!
I have a whole series planned on the experiences of each of our peoples before, during and after Yugoslavia, so stay tuned!
Gorani are Macedonians
It's so bizarre how some nationalists desperately want people who don't identify with their nation to do so. If 2 million people say they're not serbian or bulgarian, then just leave it and accept it, they're not.
In Spain spanish nationalists also say that 'catalonia is Spain'... like... let them decide for themselves, you're literally not catalonian what do you care how other people's relate or not to your (in this case stupid) idea of your nation?
It's not bizarre at all.. If some people are deluded, at least you have to tell them the truth and let them to decide afterwards. And the historical truth is that the so called "ethnic macedonians" were called (and called themselves) bulgarians in the recent past. Some of them, not so many probably, are doing the same today. Also, the "macedonian" identity is problematic at least, as actual "macedonians" have nothing to do with the macedonians from antiquity... but they are closed related to bulgarians (language, traditions, common history etc.). Your comparation with Catalonia is not very good, since the catalonian language is quite different from the standard spanish, despite the fact that it is also a romance language derived from vulgar latin... Also, the history is different...
@@raduleu293 Lmao their DNA tests all say the closest people are Bulgarians because the are fricking Bulgarians! How many times have to be said in order everyone to understand that?
The so called ''Macedonians'' speak a 20th century rural dialect of Bulgarian, mixed with the Torlak and Shtokavian dialects of Serbian. That's why they became ''different'' even thought they are 90% the same grammatically, lexically. As vocabulary and alphabet they were strongly influenced from Serbo-Croatian, particularly Serbian because like the Moldovans in Romania they were forced to speak Russian as Ukrainians and Belarusians, just like the Slovenes and ''Macedonians'' - Serbo-Croatian.
About history we share the exact same history, they just don't want to admit that and think they have in common with Ancient Macedonians.
@nestycb6702 This is a different scenario. Unlike Catalonia, North Macedonia is independent country since 1991, while Catalonia is still part of Spain to this day, even if there are more national movements in the world like with Kurdistan but their neighbours won't let them to separate and form their country. So you can't compare Catalonia with North Macedonia.
Catalonia has more people than the entire country of North Macedonia so again you have way different history and you suffered less than any Balkan nation. You didn't have 500 years Ottoman occupation so, please stop it.
OK but catalonians have existed for centuries. Macedonian national identity only picked up steam in the 40s and was politicaly motivated. They are nearly indistinguishable from Bulgarians so why make the distinction at all?
Ethnicities have a material basis, you can't just apply liberal identity politics and call it a day
Sorry for the long comment, but I have to write it.
You are wrong, but it is understandable to think so, because no one is presenting the real picture from Macedonia, including this video.
There are people in Macedonia who know they are Bulgarians and want to define themselves as such, but it is very dangerous. After 1944, the Law on Macedonian National Honor was adopted in Macedonia, which practically forbids being Bulgarian. Terror and death await anyone who dares to say he is Bulgarian. Today they no longer kill people, but state terror continues. This fact has already been established in a number of EU documents. I will give you just a few examples. This year, Bulgarians in Macedonia created cultural clubs - small cafes, nothing special. One of the clubs was set on fire, the other club was attacked with an ax in front of observers from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, another club was shelled with bullets during the night. There are no punishments. All clubs were banned by a unanimous decision of the Macedonian parliament. All the members of the clubs have lawsuits. One of the clubs members, a 21-year-old boy, was badly beaten and the local hospital refused to treat him. The president of Bulgaria had to send his jet to transport the boy to a Bulgarian hospital. At the last Eurovision, the Macedonian representative admitted in an YT interview that he is a Macedonian Bulgarian and has Bulgarian citizenship. Politicians in Macedonia formed a commission to remove him as a Macedonian representative and the man received 400 death threats and now does not live in Macedonia. One more example. Just a few months ago, in the yard of an old church in Macedonia, the authorities changed the tombstones of buried Macedonian revolutionaries because their names are Bulgarian, and the inscriptions say they are fighting for a united Bulgaria. Their names were changed to Macedonian.
Do you understand? This is total cultural genocide. Everything Bulgarian is still forbidden, and anyone who dares to define himself as a Bulgarian faces state-sponsored terror. At the same time, Macedonia pretends to be a victim before the international community.
The language of hatred towards Bulgarians and everything Bulgarian is striking in Macedonia. There is no greater sin than admitting your Bulgarian roots. This is how the communists imposed a Macedonian nation. This video and many others hide these facts. Children in Macedonia are learning history that you can't read anywhere else in the world. I will give you an example - all peoples in Europe have their own songs and proverbs collected in books. This tradition probably started with the Germans. Macedonians don't have them, because there were simply no such people, such an ethnic group in the past. How the communists solved this problem. They took a collection of songs called "Bulgarian folk songs from Macedonia" by the Miladinov brothers, then censored any mention of Bulgarians by replacing it with Macedonians and published this book as "Folk songs from Macedonia" - Bulgarian disappears :))). This is how history is made in Macedonia. Erasing the Bulgarians and renaming them Macedonians.
You are not right that 2 million people does not want to be bulgarian, they are not allowed such thing. Makeodnia cannot start negotiations for the EU today, because it must include the Bulgarians as an ethnic group in the constitution - this is a requirement of the EU. The politicians in this country don't allow Bulgarians in the constitution and for an year the process for EU is holded. All other ethnicities are included, but Bulgarians have no place in Macedonia. Make your own conclusions about what it is about. Discrimination and hatred towards Bulgarians. People are just scared to call themselves bulgarians there. Most of the time they just lose their jobs very fast and the unemployment is staggering 35% in North Macedonia.
Great video. Thank you.
Cheers from Ukraine.
P.S.: pretty sad to see a lot of chauvinism in the comments, but I can understand, as a "fellow Slav" you get used to seeing it, lol.
Ukrainians are not any different from the ''Macedonians'' so don't act inocent, Polonised Russian.
@@HeroManNick132you're unfunny troll, keep shtting in the comments
@@solarsystempresident But it's true. Tell me where and when Ukrainian nation existed before 1900s? Divide and conquer and nationalism destroy countries and relations.
@Ілля Ветров can you give when and where Ukrainian nation existed before to act like as inocent. Not only you speak a mix between Russian and Polish but also you feel a victim of chauvinism because you decided to break away recently... So how do you explain your Ukrainian divide and rule from Russia and Poland?
@@HeroManNick132 ukraine existed before russia, like in 900 already
This video has been very depolarizing for me. As a Greek i was always bombarded with the Greek view of the problem from every side, which is largely denial of a Macedonian state and identity. This video has been an interesting watch and a starting point for more research to the topic.
Keep researching. You'll find out what the Greeks did to make the province "Macedonia" to be majority ethnic Greeks, and tons of other things that we have gone through to keep the Macedonian question open during the dark times of the 19th and first half of the 20th century.
you are a fake greek
Probably one of the most non biased videos I've seen on UA-cam related to Macedonia, thank you for your work and research, seems like it took you quite a time to make this video.
Глупости, личеше си, че мрази българите.
Balkan Odyssey is financed by Russia. Some of the benefactors listed are known to work with Russians. Who else will advocate the re-creation of the Balkan Union and communism in the Balkans.
After watching, Bulgarian debaters I see now kind of have a point , the Serbians manipulated and lied to the Bulgarians in Macedonia, almost tearing apart the Bulgarian brotherhood, nevertheless siding with the axis didn’t make bulgaria look any more innocent
Македонија на Македонците 🇲🇰 great video
Шовинист, ти си българин!
@@HeroManNick132 Поголем шовинист од тебе здравје. Те жалам.
Така е брату. Да ги истераме шиптарите првен, па пополека да си вратиме назад што ни украдоа. Да ги вратиме нашите природни граници.
@@DacLMK За какво ме жалиш? Имаш си свободата да се наречеш ''марсианец,'' ако щеш, но голям проблем имам с името ви ''македонци.'' Явно, като в Близкия изток с Израел и Палестина никога няма да има примирие дори и да ми се иска да има.
@@DacLMK Ако искаш Благоевград, ходи и си го вземи обратно, но няма как, защото няма как 1 човек да се справи срещу 320 000 от площ 6000 кв. км.
You are undoubtedly the BEST! THANK YOU for finally doing what i had been dreaming someone would, or I would do one day.
Признаваш ли се най-накрая за българин?
@@HeroManNick132...................
IDIOT.
@@tatjanavelkova5814 Си ти! Завистлива, без аргументи... Бъди си такава, докато гледаш как държавичката ти се разпада лека-полека!
@@HeroManNick132nah they are not Bulgarians don't be ignorant . We all know they are Greeks . They just don't know it yet hehehehe
@@HeroManNick132same goes for u 😘
Izuzetno poučno. Hvala za ovaj izvrsni esej.
Сърбе на върбе!
@@HeroManNick132..................
ti y endek.
North Macedonian Yugoslav propaganda, the Bulgarian point of view is not taken into account. Yugoslavia is a neo-Ottoman toilet and Bulgaria is an ex-communist state 0% neo-Ottomanism, everyone who liked the video works for Russia, everyone who says Macedonia is not Bulgarian, helps Putin to take over the Balkans, Bulgaria has Russian sentiment not Macedonia and you should be careful .This video is full of communist lies and should be taken down.North Macedonian Yugoslav propaganda, the Bulgarian point of view is not taken into account. Yugoslavia is a neo-Ottoman toilet and Bulgaria is an ex-communist state 0% neo-Ottomanism, everyone who liked the video works for Russia, everyone who says Macedonia is not Bulgarian, helps Putin to take over the Balkans, Bulgaria has Russian sentiment not Macedonia and you should be careful .This video is full of communist lies and should be taken down.North Macedonian Yugoslav propaganda, the Bulgarian point of view is not taken into account. Yugoslavia is a neo-Ottoman toilet and Bulgaria is an ex-communist state 0% neo-Ottomanism, everyone who liked the video works for Russia, everyone who says Macedonia is not Bulgarian, helps Putin to take over the Balkans, Bulgaria has Russian sentiment not Macedonia and you should be careful .This video is full of communist lies and should be taken down.
My existense caused this video i feel flatered
Thank you for your service
@@BalkanOdyssey_ np also if you want I think I have some first hand sources tracing back to my grate grate grate grate grandfather if you want them and most of them lived to 70-100 years so that does cover a big part of macedonian history proper. however I just have to get to my home town
@@dbeast1226 100% е било писано, че е бил българин!
@@HeroManNick132 па не сум провелил но не сум сигурен што мислеле мојите пра дедофци но ќе ти информирам ако најдам нешто за тоа
@@dbeast1226 Е, крайно време е да си го разбрал и да спреш да отричаш неща, които са исторически доказани и записани!
Thucidides literally uses the term barbarian to differentiate macedonians and chalchidians from the mercenaries bro wtf are you talking about ,and isocrates flat out calls phillip ii greek ...
THIS CHANNEL IS A ANOTHER PAID JEWISH LYING CHANNEL, MACEDONIANS ARE GREEKS FOR OVER 4000 YEARS NOW EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS, THESE ALBANOSLAVS ARE NOT MACEDONIANS
You mention 3 Ancient Greeks who considered the Macedonians to be barbarians and not Greeks. What you failed to mention is that all three Demosthenes, Isocrates & Thucydides were Athenian and their allegiance was to Athens, which was particularly threatened by the rise and prominense of the Macedonian kingdom during the late classical period, a concern eventually proved justified.
That is a critical detail with regards to how the Ancient Greeks viewed the Macedonians which you completely left out to suit your narrative. Very disappointing on your part.
We also have references to the Greek dialect of the island of Lesbos being referred to as barbarian in Plato's Protagoras (341c), but no one seems to conclude from that that the Aeolic Greeks of Lesbos were barbarians?
You completely ignore all the nuance of the word & the context and present it as brute fact. In reality, "barbarian" meant a lot of things depending on the context, period & author. One of those meanings is speaker of a distant Greek dialect (like Macedonian).
The nuance is that there was no universal consensus and there were some, albeit not many, disagreements about it. In the very next sentence I state several times that they indeed were considered part of the Hellenic world by many. It doesn't have to be black abd white, everything or nothing. I didn't pass any value judgement, merely showed the state of consensus.
@@BalkanOdyssey_ You did not mention the geopolitical context, and equated being called barbarian to being called non-greek, which is an oversimplification of the term.
One of the biggest problems is that ancient greek states consider citizens of other cities with Hallas to be resident aliens.
What a load of sophisticated bullshit!!!! The problem with the Pseudo-''Mecedonians'' is not only that we know to which ethnic group
they do not belong but we in fact know with 100 pct certainty to which ethnic group they do belong: they speak Bulgarian, they sound Bulgarian they use the Cyrilic alphabet, thus they are Bulgarian. When the whole comedy show started with the break up of
Yugoslavia I was living in Belgium and had a cleaner who had recently immigrated from a village outside Skopia to Belgium. I posed to her a simple question : do you speak/read and understand Bulgarian and she told me absolutely yes, in fact because it was
not easy to find FYROM newspapers in Belgium her family was reading Bulgarian Newspapers and magazines.
As to your contention that the Ancient Macedonians were not considered as Greeks and your references to Greek orators about this
the answer is very simple, Greece was never a solid unitary state is was a collection of City States often antagonistic to each other
(let us not forget the Athens/Sparta wars) and you can find orators saying all short of things against each others' cities. The acid
test as to who was Greek was who took part in the Olympic Games of that period because only those considered as Greek could
take part, and the Macedonians where there. (after the Roman conquest also the Romans could take part....but this was to be
expected).
The problem with your propaganda driven analysis is that you look at things from a racist north-european point of view. Greece was
never an ethnic racially homogeneus group they were tribes who came from everywhere, the north (the Dorians) the south east (the
Ionians) and many others. In fact the word Greeks has never been used in Greek, we use the term Hellenes. The term Greek derives
from the Romans and although its origins are contested it seems comes from an obscure tribe that lived somewhere near the City
of Thebes about 40 Km from Athens. Nor is Hellenism a closed Club. The Best definition of a Hellene is given by ISOCRATES in 4th
Century BC who declared: ''And if a man should partake of our culture, let him be called Hellene''.
Your analysis is particularly flawed when you refer to an ethnic discontinuity in the region during the Ottoman period. In those days
the vast majority of the population was illiterate so the only means of communicating with others further afield was to hire a ''Gra-
matikos'' ,meaning someone who could Write, and more often than not this person was the local priest. Hundreds of this letters exist and they are in Greek. There exists a cultural continuity all over the lands of Greece including the Macedonian region since
antiquity. Do not also forget the predominance of the Greek Orthodox Church in Macedonia though out this period who's services
were in Greek.
In short it is difficult to breach the Hellenic identity. We are a people who have a unique Language (nobody uses this language apart
from us), based on a unique Alphabet (nobody else uses this alphabet apart from us) occupying, more or less, the same lands on
which we built one of the greatest civilizations in history which is still relevant at present and we will not take History lessons from
an American (you sound American?) who use someone's else language (English) written in someone else's alphabet (Latin) and
who built your Nation on someone else's Land (the Red Man's Land)...... admittedly you have done a good job of it with the whole
adding up to more than the parts......
I would love to find out who finances your podcast because it seems to be a rather professional sophisticated propaganda piece.
Could it be the Soros Foundation??the CIA?? (not much difference between the two)???
Love from Athens,
Socrates the Cat
Damn thanks for the essay
Pretty close to a subjective truth, if there is such a thing. One correction so far - it was never called "Внатрешна Македонска Револуционерна Организациja", that is translation into modern Macedonian. The name chosen on the congress in 1906 was "Вѫтрешна Македоно-Одринска Революциона Организация" and was written in literary Bulgarian. There are derivations of the name from before that and after re-establishment after the Balkan Wars, but it was always written in Bulgarian, along with it's manifestos. It's an important detail to get the full context
революционна*
@@HeroManNick132 Не, "Революциона" пише в устава. commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:BASA-1932K-1-2-2(1).jpg#mw-jump-to-license
@@tsanov86 Явно комунистите са пипнали и това, когато променят на ''Вътрешна македоно-одринска революционна организация.''
@@HeroManNick132 glupak * .
@@tatjanavelkova5814 Си ти!
Hey man, where are you from? I’m from Rio and I’m trying to learn English, it’s just a doubt that I have about accents 😅
Serbia,
@@user-bv7zo6vd4m Nope, Bosnia and Herzegovina. He's an ethnic Serb though.
Greetings from an American descendant of ethnic Bulgarians from the county of Thessaloniki (Soloun) in Aegean Macedonia, in modern Greece!
and Greeting from an American descendant of Ethnic Greeks from Topolovgrad
@@history_repeats8201 Yes some bulgarians became greeks in the ottoman empire just because the greek church was accepted before the bulgarian and the bulgarians had no rights at fierst
@@BringBackCyrillicBG If you insinuate that our family is Bulgarian that somehow became Greek you are absolutely wrong. We have done our DNA test and we are 85% Greek, 10% Southern Italian and 5% Cypriot.We have 0% slavic DNA. Have you done the test?
@@history_repeats8201 Bulgaria also isnt slavic its mediterranean race and according to reasearches has more to do with thracians or the native balkan people than slavs or turks also a lot of bulgarians became greeks or turks like the pomaks you have heard of which are bulgarians
cant be@@history_repeats8201
Also Zaev saying that Macedonian history was forged is not even a claim, it's well documented, even Macedonian scholars that are not politically active admit it. And the majority of Bulgarians does not want to integrate Macedonia, that is crazy. But historically forgeries and populist hate-campaign has to stop
@........................ forgot ............ your horse.
no matter how you put it. Macedonia is a greek word that has a meaning only in greek same as Alexander (alex- antrdos =bane of men) and Philip (filos ippos =friend of horses) same with all famous ancient Macedonians. parmenion Ptolemy kleipatra Olympias Thessaloniki etc. history calls the period of the diadohoi successors of Alexander Hellenistic period and the states Hellenistic states. Helene is another word for greek. slavs came to the region of Macedonia much later in the 6th century. the other Slavic and not helene races named their countries. so we have Bulgaria and not the greek term Thrace. turkey and not ionia albania and not epirus. only north Macedonia kept the ancient greek name. it shouldn't be legal.
Kazi nesto za genocidot na makedoncite vo egejska makedonija od strana na grcite, proteraa 2 miliona makedonci
Какъв геноцид, Бобане?
@@HeroManNick132 gi proteraa site deca makedonci od egejskiot del,vo polka, ceska, Australija gi razmestija ako se tri deca ili dve u familja gi prakaa vo razlicni drzavi, ima svedocenje na youtube
Ne se zafrkavam, vo 1914 1915 gi proteraa site makedonci i iminjata na gradovite selata rekite gi preimenuvaa vo grcki
@@BobanTasevski-t5r Тия имена са чисти български, със силна регионална самоличност! Просто вие наскоро решихте да си направите нация.
@@BobanTasevski-t5r Pusti gi ignorantite i dushmanite, i taka i vaka nema da razberat, zatoa sto ke puknat od Inaet deka Makedonskata Nacija oduvek postoela i ke postoi, site ovie nasi komsii se stvoreni Vestacki Nacii i dojdenci od Rusija i od Kavkazot. Makedonija im dade Pismenost i Kultura i Religija, No dovolno e samo Gospod da ja znae vistinata, a ne Dushmani i Ignoranti na Vistinata = Ignoranti na Bozjata Vistina, ke skapat u Pekolot za toa i nema da im prosti Gospod zatoa sto se Nevernici i Fanatici ...
Macedonia for the Macedonians ❤🇲🇰
Во газот ти да е!
@@HeroManNick132 во твојот газ да е* Научи подобро. Некогаш одговара "ти', а некогаш не.
На пример, може и "жена ти" и "твојата жена", но САМО "твојот газ"
@@AndrejNikolov-xw2gi Ха, глупави реформи на селски диалект!
Не стига, че сте изостнали във времето, но си и такъв лицемер! Ще се признаеш ли за българин скоро?
@@AndrejNikolov-xw2gi цел свет стои зад Бугарија, никој не стои зад македонските платени лаги во видеото.Наскоро ќе немате што да јадете и струја.Вашата тврдоглавост ќе ве доврши.
slavogypsi you are skopianos nothing else. lohia , qohia , muti
Thank you for choosing such a controversial topic. Although i would have liked you to mention that the VMRO was split between two main factions (pro Macedonian side and pro Bulgarian side), this is the best video i have seen on this topic.
Всички от ВМРО са били българи, после възниква понятието ''македонски българин.'' Но да, борели сме се, за да бъдем заедно, макар и планът да се провали. Но поне македонизмът ви избави от това, че ако не беше, щяхте сега да сте сърби. Поне българите, колкото и да не ги обичате сега, те ви помогнаха да не бъдете сърби.
@@HeroManNick132чекај малку, сега ти си про македонизам или анти македонизам?
@@ItachiUchiha-bt8yp Фактически съм анти, но все пак, както всяко нещо си има добрите и лошите страни, не зачитам, че македонизмът е било най-лошото нещо на света.
Все пак той ви избави да не бъдете изцяло асимилирани в южни сърби.
@@HeroManNick132 никогаш и немаше да не асимилираат бе батко, македонизамот само ни помогна да се освестиме што сме и кои сме
@@ItachiUchiha-bt8yp Поне все пак ви помогна най-много с това, че иначе сега да бяхте южни сърби.
Thanks for the video, Macedonians will always be Macedonians! Over 8,000 years old...
The first dinosaur was Macedonian too 🤣
cute
AHAHAHAHAHA you guys have every right to be your own country and can call yourselves whatever you want but this is just poop lol
@@Mrs.Hat- in your country..... ho ho. + he.
Which Macedonians are you referring to?? There are Greek Macedonians from ancient Macedonia in northern Greece and there are the SLav Macedonians from the Former Yugoslav Republic of North Macedonia who are a people of Bulgarian stock who only started calling themselves "Macedonians" in a political sense 150 years ago, i.e they are NOT related to the ancient Greek tribe of Macedonians of Alexander the Great.
THESE SLAVS AS YOU CORRECTLY SAY ARE NOT MACEDONIANS, MACEDONIANS ARE ONLY THE HELLENES
IN MAKEDONIJA 25 CENTURIES MACEDONIANS. Slav... tra la la.
The part about ancient Greeks not recognising Macedonians as Greeks is a massive red flag and shows an obvious bias by the researcher. Macedonians where very much considered Greeks since they were allowed participation in the Olympics which was a strictly Greek event...non Greeks were not allowed attendance let alone participation in the Olympics. Macedonians spoke Greek, believed in the Greek pantheon and spread Hellenism throughout the empire, and that influence survived all the way to the fall of the Ptolemaic Egypt to the Romans. Athenians saw Macedonians as "barbarians" the same way a New Yorker sees a Nebraskan as different, maybe even "lesser" but certainly American. Please be more careful with your research as the video ended up feeling very propagandistic, bias and poorly researched.
SANSKRIT najstar rakopis in WORLD. SANSKRIT veli
MAKEDONIJA -- MAJKA ZEMJA.
@@tatjanavelkova5814 Санскритът не е създаден от вас!
@@cicinvazi На кого? На маймунодонците, дето претендират, че са първите хора от динозаврите ли? 🤣
@@cicinvazi of course it existed before the 1800s...the Macedonian identity has existed since the 7th century BC, way before the Slavs appropriated it as their own and that is exactly where the bias is...the notion the Macedonians weren't Greek has been disproven time and time again but the illiterate and misinformed will always deny it trying to create an identity for themselves out of thin air
@@cicinvazi And both of them described themselves as Έλληνες (Hellenes)...Greek is the Latin derived name for the Hellenic culture.
A very much needed video in these modern times!
Ти си българин!
@@HeroManNick132 tocno,25% sum bugarin no ostanatite 75 posto sum makedonec!
@@stekyo-2279 Как само 25%? Лъжеш ме нещо!
@@stekyo-2279 you are one hundred percent crazy. "Macedonian" is a regional term, like "Sofyan" for example.
@@ivanpetrov-ou4jy Няма как да отучиш сърбоман...
Macedonia was the first nation of europe
Ahaha, even the first dinosaur was from there, please don't make me laugh. The oldest continuing state is actually San Marino.
i said nation@@HeroManNick132
@@GoldenShekle ''Nation'' Their nation comes in late 20th century.
Yes, Macedonia existed since 7500BC but that ''country'' comes at 1945.
macedonia was mentioned in the old testament,new testament,koran,and that communist manifesto called the (((TALMUD))) (cursed be there seed)
@@GoldenShekle That's the Hellenic province of Macedonia, not Vardar Banovina also known as North Macedonia.
"In order to understand Macedonian Nationalism, we must start from the very beginning. What is the Universe and how it formed?"
*Proceeds to explain General Relativity as it applies to cosmology*
😂
You'll understand quantum physics before you understand the Macedonian question😂
This is gonna be interesting
Нямаш срам!
@@HeroManNick132 зошто да се срамам?
@@ItachiUchiha-bt8yp Знаеш много добре, че вие правите всичко по всевъзможност, колкото да бъдете по-надалеч от нас и по-близо до сърбите с възможно най-изкуственият начин някога, чрез политиката ви.
@@HeroManNick132 нема врска тоа, вистина е дека сме по пријателски настроени кон Србите ама тоа е заради вашата идиотска политика кон Македонија. Искрено многу сте патетични со тоа што се однесувате како некое поранешно момче коешто било напуштено од девојка му.
@@ItachiUchiha-bt8yp Затова ли палите знамена, трошите паметници, оскърбявате ни, гърмите клубове и биете по българи? Това са случаи преди да ви сложим вето. Да не кажа, че във вашите църкви нарочно заличавате с боя доказателства, че сте били българи, а?
А сърбите, които ви наричат сърби с дефект, какви са за вас? Приятели?
What if the ancient macedonians, thrachians, illyroans, paeonians. dacians were protoslavs ??
They were invented by the Bulgarian communist party in order to stop the serbianisation of Macedonia. They succeeded but the Bulgarians ran from the victory and said that the Serbian communist created them. And instead of the Bulgarians and Macedonians live like a brotherly peoples they constantly fight wich is sad.
@@scarecrow533 it was fringe until post-WW2. There is an argument to be made that a national identity is irrelevant if it is too young and not yet fully developed. Taiwan is another good example
@@scarecrow533 Did you read what you linked? This is direct quote from it : "The organization was founded in 1893 in Ottoman Thessaloniki by a small band of anti-Ottoman Macedono-Bulgarian revolutionaries,[15] who considered Macedonia an indivisible territory and all of its inhabitants "Macedonians", no matter their religion or ethnicity.[16] In practice, IMRO was established by Bulgarians and most of their followers were Bulgarians.[17] The organization was a secret revolutionary society operating in the late 19th and early 20th centuries with the goal of autonomous Macedonia and Adrianople regions.[18] Initially, they were against the aspirations of neighboring states in the area and saw the future autonomous Macedonia and Southern Thrace as a multi-ethnic entity.[19][20] It appears likely that at the early stages of the struggle, a desired outcome of the autonomy was unification with Bulgaria.[21][22][23][24] This aim was changed later with the idea of transforming the Balkans into a federal state, in which Macedonia and Thrace would enter as equal members.[25][26][27] The idea of autonomy was strictly political and did not imply a secession from Bulgarian ethnicity.[28] Even those, who advocated for independent Macedonia and Thrace, never doubted the predominantly Bulgarian character of the Slavic population in both areas.[29] "
@@scarecrow533You mean the Bulgarian Macedonian revolutionary organization originally known as the IMORO? Which had most it's founding members and most it's famous members identify as Bulgarian? Yeah.. That one.
@@rawka_7929 Yeah. .......
srb glupak.
@@scarecrow533 MACEDONIAN IDENTITY 25 CENTURIES.
from FILIP KING ON MAKEDONIJA ! ! !
Macedonia has and always will be Macedonia. Pirin & Aegean Macedonia are still Macedonia and belong to the people of Macedonia
Keep dreaming Western Bulgarian like your Albanian friends there.
Macedonians are communist project like Belarusians. You can’t fake history !
Macedonia 🇲🇰 Pirin 🇲🇰 Aegean 🇲🇰
Macedonians are communist project like Belarusians. You can’t fake history !
@@HeroManNickI32 Маке, покажи си лицето!
You missed alot of things about the Macedonian Nationalism before ww2, theres Georgija Pulevski, Dimitar Blagoev, Teodosij Gologanov, Nikola Karev Akropolis 1903 Interview and many more. Irish Roger Casement Quote on Macedonia, Also the Emblem at 25:36 says "Freedom for our Motherland Macedonia" in Bulgarian, because Kosovo too used Serbian language and cyrillic before its indepenance. You can learn more about Macedonia in the Akropolis Interview, there was a reason VMRO had secret organisations. When Bulgaria visited Skopje in 1942 we knew we were Bulgarian but 2-3 years later all 1.2m got brainwashed by Tito, "Just let there be a Macedonia". In just 3 years you brainwash a nation you gotta be a God. Did Tito also brainwash the ethnic Macedonians in Greeks,Albania,Canada,US, Australia that left in the 1920-30.
If you read VMORO's documents you'll see they were written in Bulgarian, there was no such thing as Macedonian back then. The only attempt of creating Macedonian and making it as reality was done by Krste Misirkov, Blazhe Koneski and others.
During Krushevo's pepublic flag it was clearly written ''Свобода или смъртъ'' and not as now ''Слобода или смрт'' which is taken from Serbian.
Your comment shows just how flawed your history curriculum was. The process of Macedonization was started as early as 1934 when the Comintern deemed Macedonians as a separate peoples. This was followed by the Bloody Christmas (feels free to google that) events of early 1945 where thousands were tried and tens of thousands were deported for the crime of "Bulgarian chauvinism". Macedonian was first codified in 1945 based on the Bitola-Prilep dialect and Serbian letters like : "j" were added while some Bulgarian ones were removed like : "я". Let me ask you, if the government came in today and told you, you were Chinese and then warned you that you would lose your livelihood, your children would be kicked out of school and deportation and incarceration were happening all around you, how would you react ? Most people have to survive and look after their families, that is how Bulgarian nationalist was killed in North Macedonia and how propaganda like Bulgarians being Tatars or Fascists is on the lips of every single Slav in that region today.
@@steel4o Всъщност 6 букви са променили и само 1 от тях е старобългарска буква - буквата S в старобългарския sѣло (дзело).
@@steel4o blgari fas'isti. I I World war sa Hitler.
You could just as easily make the case for France or Britain to be serveral smaller countries, if you were so inclined.
👀
Wales, Scotland, Northen Ireland (sikeeee) Ireland, Britany, Aquitaine. I’m probably missing some but point amusingly made.
It's not about making smaller and smaller countries, the video clearly speaks about the breakup of Yugoslavia as being a bad thing for Macedonians, and fondly about the idea of a larger Balkan federation. I don't know what the point of this post is, but it seems you've missed the point entirely.
BASQUE COUNTRY BROTHA
DNA all Macedonians. 90% will come up Bulgarian. The new Macedonian identity was created by Tito to try to separate "Macedonians" and Bulgarians.
For what reason to separate Macedonians ?
You are not clear ?
@voskreglavincevska7080 To establish the grounds for Yugoslavia's future territorial claims in the wider geographical region of Macedonia.
@@odalv316
What is diference of being Bulgarian or Serbian .
It is the same nationalist .
That is the reason , we are now independent country Makedonia !
You are now on the turn to start War .
So long time you are in degeneracy and isolation because of mulfunctioned genes from the evil past !
Classic braindead bulgarian 😂
@@odalv316 MACEDONIAN PEOPLE -- 25 CENTURIES.
drink .... tekila.
Obviously made by a "Macedonian".
The Balkan circus 🎪
this thingy on the right looks like a house dressed up in a n.macedonian flag, isn't it?
@@newreast3904 This is a circus emoji.
ZNAME KUTLES' ( Vergina Sun ) e MAKEDONSKO 25 VEKA.
od FILIP KRAL IV vek pred ovaa era i denes XXI vek ! ! !
@@tatjanavelkova5814 hmmm? I can’t understand bulgarian sorry
@@DaimonaC THIS IS VIDEO FOR MAKEDONIJA.
FLAG VERGINA SUN ---- MACEDONIAN 25 CENTURIES .
macedonians are not greek or bulgarian
@@kxa3532 That's not exactly true. In 1392 Pasha Yiğit Bey led the army that took Üsküp (modern Skopje) and he was named the Conqueror of Üsküp by the Ottoman Empire. The ethnic Bulgarians and Greeks who inhabited the area were moved to western Bulgaria and northern Greece. During the Ottoman Empire the region North Macedonia was inhabited by Anatolian Turks. The Albanian colonization started from the end of 18th century throughout the first half of the 19th century.
Unfortunately, these facts are not well known to ordinary people who are not interested in medieval history.
@@kxa3532 For your information Boris I was a knyaz (княз), not a king (крал/цар).
As I already told you, these people were Anatolian Turks from the 14th century to the 20th century. Before that period they were a mixture of Macedonians, Bulgars, Thracians and Greeks. When the Ottoman Empire captured the city of Üsküp (now Skopje), all ethnic Bulgarians were expelled of the city into Western Bulgaria. Due to the proximity, the Bulgarian cultural and political influence in the region remained very strong. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, many Bulgarians returned there, but were once again subjected to de-Bulgarianization by the Serbian authorities when Vardar Macedonia was annexed by the Kingdom of Serbia in 1912. In order to reduce Bulgaria's influence, a new history and language were invented for these people, erasing their Ottoman origin. If you walk around Skopje you will see more people with Anatolian features than Slavic ones.
@@kxa3532 Those who live in North Macedonia are not pure Slavs or Bulgarians, but you are right. The Macedonian ethnic group was assimilated by Bulgarians, Ottomans and Serbs.
@@kxa3532 Well, I'm Bulgarian. We always called him knyaz Boris I (this was his title), not king Boris I. The second one sounds weird. We have many schools, streets and boulevards named "Княз Борис I". The western spelling is wrong.
@@Georgi.Delchev.Reborn Смешно е как разговаряш с българин на английски.
The biggest mistake was not forming a country which would be made of former Yugoslavia, Albania, Bulgaria and Greece, not only that country would be huge but it would enable every Balkan Nation to live in the same country and nobody in Europe or world could mess with it
Лесно е да се каже.
One correction I need to point out:
That "regional" Bulgarian Macedonian identity of the IMRO is actually contemporary Bulgarian nationalist rhetoric. That Bulgarian Macedonian identity was more of a political identity, where they wanted institutional independence from all neighboring capitals. It is analogous to the Yugoslav Macedonian identity during SFRY, or even partly the Serbian Vojvodina identity. I recomend you watch this interview between an ethnic Macedonian and a Bulgarian Macedonian on the matter: ua-cam.com/video/rr-zIhUL5LQ/v-deo.html
EDIT: The replies prove my point.
Yeah no, you have been lied to
ua-cam.com/video/Fa8EmcrIgKc/v-deo.htmlsi=piVR14IAwY0vvo2M
Why the ottoman turks called the so called "ethnic macedonians", bulgarians? Why do you speak a dialect of the bulgarian language (indeed, somewhat different from standard bulgarian which is based on eastern bulgarian dialects, but not so much) and not a greek dialect as macedonians from antiquity or a serbian dialect? I'm not bulgarian, but I can understand the point of vue of bulgarians very well...
IMRO was definitely an ethnic Bulgarian organisation at the start (IMORO being the original name). They regionally identified as Macedonians but Bulgarian was the major identity.
@@rawka_7929 Not really at the start of its creation it was clearly apart from the bulgarians, During the ilinden revolt The president of the Krusevo Republic would not accept any bulgarian donations of weapons, It became more bulgarian influenced once the most important leaders of the Centralist part (Anti-bulgarian) of the IMRO died and the Vrhovist part (Pro-bulgarian) got stronger due to the bulgarians influencing them BTW The name at the start wasnt IMORO It was SMORO(TMORO) (Secret Macedonian Odrine Revolutionary Organisation)
@@raduleu293 They never did
Comparing today's nationalistic concepts with the antiquity is silly. There was no Greece as a nation back then, just city states. Language and culture was their common ground and other than that they seen each other as ally or foe, depending the politics. So, calling someone barbarian wasn't a fact for not being Greeks, but rather an insult for having political issues with them (aka for being a Kingdom instead of a Democracy).
It's proven that Macedonians were Doric, had Greek names (you know, names that actually mean something in Greek, like Philip (Filos-Ippos, friend of the horse), they wrote EVERYTHING in Greek, they participated in Olympic games (not an international event back then, only Greeks were allowed) and after conquering the rest of Greece they simplified the Greek language from all the other dialects (Ionian, Doric etc) to simply Koine Greek and spread it to the world. They were the ones who created the Hellenistic Period and thus saying it's disputed they were Greeks (Hellenes) is dumb af.
They also use the same insult as well Serbs to Bulgarians by calling them ''Tatars'' which is similar as the barbarian insult.
@ronbalo2261 Pseudomacedonian opinion rejected.