@@mulldrifterz6469 nope. The NA region has the NAWCQ, which is equivalent to the European WCQ. It doesn't have the equivalent of national championships
@@RoyaltonDrummer922Losing hand cause you didn't draw the out? (Ash Blossom) Furthermore, combos like Gumblar, Trish & Smoke grenade requires skill, but Lab the only thing he did was to set 2 and pass... Not using Lady + Cooclock to set Virus, not only is a toxic result, but didn't require skill to be hyped like that I hate Kashtira, while being a Lab player, but the cheerful reaction for something similar to VFD is actually disappointing
It was pretty hype tbh, it was deserved. Such a very rare moment and that literally won him the game. Its indeed hype moment, maybe except for tom lol. Remember when ppl cheered for rivalry flipped in rikka few ycs ago? Lowkey ppl dont realize as spectator, they loves blowout cards (except mystic mine maybe) being flipped at crucial moment. Whether floodgates evenly etc.
Even Tom looked surprised at how it worked out, because he knows that circumstance was just so 1 in a million- that it not only happened, but it happened live. Had this been anti spell or anything similar no one would’ve cared, had Tom been on runick he would’ve just chain link 6 his entire hand and again no one would’ve cared- it really was just Spicy luck and card choices
This was the best case EEV could have. It's the magical charismas land on hit. It's basically the same level of punish for Dual land heavy MTG decks to blood moon. Some times you just get boned by chance. Only reason people noticed it was due to being in Finals. If it was in swiss no one would have cared.
while EEV is still a heavily unbalanced card (doesn't have to rip the entire hand in order for it to be game breaking as you still get hand knowledge no matter how many cards you hit), you are 100% correct. The fallout is only this high because it happened in Finals.
@@RayMon504 Coming from other games where hand info can be commonly gotten, it isn't always going to get you a win. Hell it can suck as you just see you have no out to your opp's hand if they play it right. But that just shows how massive something like hand info can shift power in yugioh to other games.
@@RayMon504there have been games I've still won when my opponent eradicator'd me and games I've still lost even after I resolved eradicator. It's not an insta win like most people make it seem to be. Hand knowledge is cool an all but what of the cards in their hands say I don't care we are going to OTK you.
The play itself was incredibly greedy, he just happened to be incredibly rewarded by it If the Eradicator had been for 1-2 instead of 5 the Lab player would have lost imo
I agree with this a lot. EEV is not something you can just throw in as many decks like floodgates and it still requires some knowledge of what the opponent is playing(though likely you'll mostly be declaring spell still). I think what people forget a lot is matchup spreads. There's always going to be certain strategies your deck will be weak to. And their strategy will he weak against other decks too.
This crumbles at going 1st game 2, knowing what your opponent is on, and then blowing them out because you call out Spell and suddenly "Yeah game 3" because spells are not only Starters but Extenders and Counters too.
The thing about Eradicator is that it produces massive non-games, like every other floodgate - if your deck gets hosed by it you pretty much just give up and go next game, but there's also the random chance that it doesn't do anything. Eradicator does hit a pretty common resource - Spell cards - but it also can randomly whiff horribly and requires serious investment to pull off. If not hard-drawn can be beaten by common hand traps, you need to get a large monster on field you're willing to throw away, you generally need to go first for it to do anything relevant, and it's a terrible topdeck in a grind situation. I think Joshua is correct in that it's not really as obnoxious as a lot of legal floodgates, and if we're gonna ban EEV, we might as well ban all the other majorly toxic cards too at the same time. I mean, to be honest, the number of decks and cards in YGO that can create a situation where you straight up don't play the game if the opponent draws well and you have no interaction is comically high already. So I think it makes a lot of sense that Josh is saying "yeah the game is just like this now, and it's not really actually that common that you get sacced that hard"
Had that guy opened 2 monster cards we wouldnt even be having this discussion. The truth is all the virus cards are very high roll and have a huge opportunity cost to playing them
But like that's the point, it's a terrible card design that shouldn't be part of yugioh. A card that is usually hard to set up, but some decks can abuse it way easier, and its also a card that can sometimes do nothing and sometimes win the game 100% by itself with no counterplay. Its a terrible, terrible card design that just screams "no skill rng fest"
@@charlesfort6602 Eradicator is a risky play. It could literally do nothing against your opponent. And if that was the scenario, lab would’ve wasted a trap card and a monster on board for essentially nothing. I like cards that promote risk, and don’t think it’s bad card design to have cards that do that. It was equally if not more likely that the labrynth player was Uber punished by the kashtira player. But they weren’t and it produced a hype moment.
I think on the flip side of blowouts and probably even more common is how many players evenly matched a set five pass leaving them with one card and no one complains
Because those players are bias. Even spell decks can run Evenly Matched if it’s against a backrow deck. Bias players love blowouts when it doesn’t happen to them.
The final game was just incredibly lucky. There is nothing to be done about opponent having the perfect setup to counter your hand. It wasn't even high probability but it happens. I don't think anything should be done to limit cards based on such a result. Thinking back, in response to Big Welcome, Kashtira could have attempted blind Cosmic. The only reason for Lab to welcome in standby like that is to resolve EEV anyway. It would be a low probability cosmic attempt (1/4). But when holding 5 spells in hand, was it not worth it to gamble?
If being inconsistent and requiring a difficult set up and requiring specific two or so card combos justifies degeneracy, I don't want tcg players in MD crying about Sales Ban Rhongo anymore
Rhongo is literally a 1 card combo that is literally a free win with no counter. At least EEV can be bad. Call Spell, reveal like 4 monsters lmao, have fun
joshua is right. this is the state of the game you accept if youre still in ygo, theres more serious problem ( cards ) but if you think konami will change anything to make the game more healthy youre lost. yugioh being a fair and balanced game has long been gone.
I get what people are saying now about it being a bit easier than what is being described. It is actually a 2 card combo as long as you have welcome and big welcome. Welcome summon lady > big welcome and chain lady to set > big welcome summons and bounces stovie to activate its effect on a new chain in order to activate the card set by lady.
Something people don't really mention about EEV is that you can still play around it. It's strongest on the initial activate and on normal draw. Outside of those two instances, you can still play and get Spells/Traps in hand by just searching them out.
Josh always has the best takes Sure it would be nice to have back and forth yugioh more often. But with how powerful modern decks are, it's just a matter of who can blow out and take over the game turn 1/2?
And most traditional floodgates have answers. Even Anti-spell can be hit with cosmic/twin twister in response to out it. It's the same issue people have with D Barrier over even TCBOO and co. You cannot interact with set chainable normal trap cards. What are we supposed to play Epsilon? Come on now.
Its not hand rip cards that u are looking for, but generic full hand knowledge + rip cards. Thats why dushoot, confiscation, and even red lotus are banned recently. Which EEV fits the bill, but its more restrictive than those cards above, as not all decks can even play it. Maybe hit to 1 like other virus like CCV.
Yea i fully agree with josh takes, as usual having best takes in yugituber community. Tho i still think there is some chance of they are hitting EEV coz konami has history of hating and hitting generic "full hand knowledge + rip 1 card" cards. Thats why they banned confiscation and dushoot in the first place, and recently red lotus. Tho EEV is way more restrcitive and less generic than those cards above. But yea its not unlikely that they will hit it. So not exactly coz its less toxic than other floodgates
Nobody gonna talk about the Game 3 of Semifinals (Kashtira vs Rikka)? Kashtira flipped Anti-Spell which won him the game. Anti-Spell needs no setup but EEV is the problem?
Ppl only looking finals lmao. They forgot anti spell basically better card overall than EEV, as its way more generic and achieve almost same thing, minus hand knowledge.
I think eradicator sits in the spot, where you can argue if it is, either the starting point of an unfair card, or if it is like the entry of rather fair cards. I think we will see what konami does with it, since it is very restrictive and you need a certain monster, with certain stats to activate it. Also like mentioned, its only good going first.
You don't have such restrictions if you copy the effect with the upcoming transaction rollback trap (you can use beatrice to foolish both rollback + the trap of your choice)
To be honest part of unfair cards discussion that people miss is that they think more about If its usable than noticing "oh this can Go broken If konami wants to sell It" I doubt konami didnt though about EEV when making the new labrynth lady, and tbh thats kinda part of yugioh, a Lot of people wait for their fav broken card to get a good support, before adamancipator people loved block dragon
@@julienfrey6808EEV can be triggered by tributing a Bystial, if people are going to try and force EEV into decks then we'll see Bystials, Trap Trick and EEV when we hit a Chaos format 😂
@@lisaruhm6681 Yes. I want all lingering floodgates taken out back. EEV is just another card that needs gutted, but finally has a use case, sorta like Kurikara, it was a nothing Secret then suddenly it got its use case and is now a staple.
But when you set 5 pass and the opponent opens duster and evenly and those cards instantly win it’s fine lmao. People are so biased in this discussion. If we ban EEV we ban duster evenly and lightning storm it’s that simple. And for people red reboot to 3. Sure but then let’s print a green and orange reboot for monsters and spells and also release those cards. Oh wait people would instantly be all over the place and crying
I feel like this is creating an important divide in the community when it comes to floodgate v no floodgate style of play, i personally favor the thought of no floodgate but then we go back to a time in ygo where the best stuff is the best stuff and it remains to be the best stuff. Floodgates is the only way "bad players" have fun with the game because its like their comfort wheel of well no matter what konami releases, i can just flip rivalry or X floodgate and just win off of backrow.
So Arise isn't a floodgate on legs? What about Protos? Or Colossus? Floodgate decks rarely win because they are incredibly slow and we have so many answers post-side, but when combo decks incorporate floodgate effects then it becomes incredibly toxic format. At least you didn't actually called a "bad player" Dinh-Kha, who i personally credit more on his win that his decklist or even luck with EEV hitting 5 and believe he would have done incredibly well with any deck. It was just a meta-call, like Exosifter winning.
Nothing u can do with modern YGO, floodgates are here to stay for long term, especislly in trap form, in monster form is more likely to be hit. Even if konami ban very few floodgates, u just have so many options for floodgates and konami will still printing more and more.
If we attempted to ban every card that created non-games regardless of consistency or usability, our ban list would expand by like 200 cards lmao. Sometimes your opponent just draws the perfect counter- that's YGO.
and if the banlist got expanded by those 200 cards, the game would be better off for it. If even 1 of those 200 cards got banned then the game is better off for it.
I will always play to my parameters but the lack of ways to stop trap effects like expulsion is another example but yeah their is far to many cards in that power level and if thats the bar you want set then we’ll be playing table 500
As an OCG player, I do hate Superheavy Samurai Earth Block Dragon. Smoke Grenade is a major factor here, plus Block Dragon's insane resource pulling, but at the end of the day, the deck suffers from consistency issue occasionally, and can be choked with Infinite Impermanence on Gallant Granite. So you got to accept it.
To this just pronounced the issue that best of 3 game 2/3 are often way too onesided by cards like dbarrier, eev, antispell, tcboo. If you do bo3, you have to ban hard going 1st floodgates.
People need to learn shit happens, like we had so many times on streams where people won game 3 going first in time by using a card to gain life or burn for life, at this time then if people want to complain about something that very rarely happens then lets ban every card to gain/burns life points then.
There are currently two types of trap card floodgates: Continuous trap cards and normal trap cards like EEV or any virus really, D Barrier, and more recently via tech choice the spiritual water art where they can be played outside of the opponent's main phase to force very little interaction. The latter is probably more unfair at the moment partially because there are literally only two outs: crossout and epsilon (outside of those cards there is literally NOTHING you can do to stop it. while not the entire reason it's 100% part of the reason Appointer got banned.
Well yea konami kinda hate generic cards that give full hand knowledge of opp. Which is why trap dushoot and appointer banned. Also confiscation. Tho EEV has way more restrcition that lotus or dushoot. But not that unlikely they will hit it. Maybe to 1 so only very few decks can do it like laby furniture setup only, or heavenly prison. Dbarrier isnt providing hand knowledge at all. Its been insane for long time in lot of formsts, i dont think they will even hit it, let alone ban it.
other decks seting up incredible boards that blow out the opponent? fine. nobody cares. Trap deck does the same but with more restrictions? everybody is outraged and calls for a ban.
Hmm in this case tho, tom had cosmic iirc. So if kha was using anti spell, he wouldve lost maybe. Then again same scenario if tom had ash instead of cosmic, tom wouldve negate the welcome summon snd kha wouldvee lost maybe.
it is true that eradicator isn't a real issue, the question is just what do we want banning to be for. a card like snake rain should be banned as if we ever get a tear stile reptile deck that card is like one of the best cards in the game even if it right now is laughably bad. with how cards are being banned we shouldn't ban it as potential was never a reason to ban a card and eradicator doesn't even win you the game if your name isn't exactly sky striker
ok one thing I didn't get (I didn't see the game, only read about it): lovely labrynth says "if another monster leaves the field by your normal trap effect, destroy a monster from field/hand" which is how he got rid of the kash monster. but which monster left the field? I thought he tributed lovely labrynth for EEV. but even then, that would be tribute for cost so it wouldn't count as "leaving by trap effect" right? what did I miss? :D
The the kashtira cards getting destroyed in hand happened in game 1, not game 3 with eev. The lab player had lady on field. He activated big welcome to summon lovely then bounce lady, meaning lovely could trigger on the next chain.
@@chewdoom8415 wasn't it the iconic game 3 where he traps because of EEV and his 5th card was a kash monster that was destroyed in hand by lady's effect?
Remember when people were mad Eradicator was playable when Lair of Darkness came out? Now we can turbo out a body and the trap itself and some people STILL want to defend it. Brainworm playerbase some days.
I do agree that EEV isn't the most toxic card you can be facing down, it is true that it's a niche card that requires setup and is situational enough that not every deck auto loses to it. But I think we have to separate what we expect vs what we want to happen. I don't expect Konami touching EEV probably ever (unless they print a deck specifically made for it, like they made Kash just to break Mind Hacker), but I wish it goes away. The same goes for every floodgate you mentioned though
If eradicator only took out 1 card and lady took out another, no one would complain about eradicator right now It’s because it was such a blowout people are crying
@@knnydp I'll pile on the snark as much as I desire, thanks. And yes, spells and traps are way more impactful. Do you seriously believe that you just deserve to play a shit ton of "way more impactful" cards without any risk to it? Spare me.
I want ALL the Virus cards banned/errata'd/retrained to CCV levels, not because they're good, but because they're poorly designed cards. EEV in particular I only want gone because of how stupid it makes the Labrynth mirror. That's clear bias and I'm not afraid to admit it.
You definitely don't have to play the furniture build of labyrinth to do the combo. There are other ways. Also, I agree with Josh's take on EEV. There are way more 1 card combo that are problematic that need to be addressed.
Master Duel limiting eradicator epidemic virus to decrease the chances of hard drawing it, could actually be impactful if it really is a 3 card combo to search and use it in labrynth
EEV needs 3 cards combo, expulsion is a one-card combo and it's incredibly consistent, there's a big difference in that (I do wanted both to be banned tho, they are not fair for the game)
Expulsion was happening turn 1 lab player made a good choice to side in eev knowing the guy was siding in power spells to break his board in addition to his already powerful kash
I feel like Dark ruler no more is one of those prime examples of a card that’s chaotic neutral. Gives you a chance to get through the board without interruption except hand traps or spell/traps. Card is such a necessary evil no one ever really wants to ban it because everyone sides it 😂
I find it funny that people are crying about this, this is what trap decks do. People hate on trap decks until they are bad then they yearn for them to come back. A vicious cycle
People hate on floodgate trap decks because they are "I resolve one card I win the game". No one hates on Salad or SwSo who end on a trap in every turn 1 because they are midrange decks.
I view Erad in the same sense as Rhongo. Without Gossip Shadow, Rhongo turns into an inconsistent meme that sometimes steals games. Should Rhongo be banned despite it's inconsisteny? Of course! Getting blown out before having a chance to play the game is stupid. Consistency should not be the driving factor behind whether or not a degen card gets banned.
More than that, maybe hundreds, u can see josh attempt to make the game "balanced" lol. It literally will hit hundreds of cards. From flodgates, blowout cards, generic boss montsers, etc.
Sd to hear statements like "I ave come to terms with the fact they will never ban toxic floodgate cards" (I am paraphrasing, the cards he lsited all boil down to that kinda thing)
I think the biggest issue with EEV (and similarly Deck Dev and D Barrier) is that there’s not even a chance to interact with the card itself, they just flip it and it either does almost nothing, FTKs, or turn skips (depending on the card used and hand) All you get for ways to stop the viruses is like… exactly shotgunning super poly and fusing their targets before they have a chance to activate it
@@Cybertech134damn i guess the runick, kashtira, and branded players can all just get fucked right? Its not a choice, it is a REQUIREMENT to play most decks this format, labrynth is like the only one that doesnt necessarily maindeck a bunch of spells
@@obtusem5015he didnt though? I get that he said he thinks D barrier is more toxic (which i agree with fully) but it is fundamentally the same problem here, there is no point of interaction on flipping either it or a virus. D barrier instantly wins the game if it resolves usually, yeah, whereas EEV is more like coinflip but the idea is the same
tl;dr that scenario was the perfect storm for the card, it is a problem but there are more cards with way wider use cases that should be addressed prior. Good talk though, not that I expect Josh to kneejerk react about it but happy he facilitated an actual discussion.
So what happens is you make mannequin car and summon shifter to you opponents side of the field and you from what I presume use it to summon chaos hunter that stops cards from being banished. How that works is that shifter tells the card to go to the banish pile, but chaos hunter says no sir you won’t be banishing any cards today, and every thing is canceled until chaos hunter goes off board or shifter ends. -10 + 10 = 0
@@Csthh I thought shifter says your opponent cant ban cards, doesnt that mean you still can have cards banished? Does shifter's effect only apply while he is in the GY?
@@EPMeokazi shifter says the same thing as macro cosmos but it lasts for you and your opponents turn only, chaos hunter is the one that says your opponent can not banish cards.
Make Mannequin Cat, Use effect to summon Shifter to opponents field, Use Cat's effect to summon your own Chaos Hunter from deck. Shifter's effect to banish card is now turned off because Chaos Hunter does not allow cards to be banished by the Opponent.
Nah some Kashtira fanboy in Konami got his feelings hurt his fav deck got destroyed by a spell card thar has been used since Lab came out last year. Why limit it now and not 9 months ago ?
But seeing the hand for 6 turns is the real unreasonable part for control decks. It is my firm belief that this card, despite not being a CT, is just as bad as Red Reboot
Joshua's point is very weird. There being more toxic cards in the game doesn't suddenly make EEV ok. 1 card hand looping for 5 is insane and even if the combo to search it is not consistent it is still there. Kashtira's 5 zone lock combo wasn't consistent either yet it was still very powerful. Resolving a 3 card combo doesn't always win the game, it certainly can put you massively ahead but the problem with floodgates like EEV is that they don't let your opponent try to respond to your board.
He's not saying EEV is okay. He's just saying there are cards which are more toxic that should be more of a priority for getting hit. But he's also given up on any of these cards getting hit at this point.
It's not a guaranteed loop for 5, and it's not even that many most of the time. You know you can play more monsters instead of spells right? Nobody is holding a gun to your head.
@@prancinNOOB In theory sure. But I doubt they're allowed to just ban 15 floodgates at once. And they've not been touching the trap floodgates at all for a while now.
You ignore that "hand looping for 5" is completely random and unless it skips the opponent's turn, it's insta loss because you commit everything to that play. If Tom had a monster heavy hand, everyone would have laughed at EEV calling it copium. 5 Zone lock was guaranteed, and prevented either monster USE entirely or S/T use, and it also meant -1 ED, and also -7 MD crippling multi-engine deck purely on RNG hitting one-offs, then your Arise or your opponent's Pot would threaten a deckout while crippling the deck even more. Of course EEV is a toxic card, but Anti-Spell can be equally bad and even worse if Iblee is along with it.
Sometimes you just draw a bad hand against your opponent’s set up. It’s not even “draw the out” if he has at least 2 different in engine card in hand tom could have won the match. And even with that hand, he did have a chance of stopping that play, it’s an insane play, but a play nontheless. There are much more oppressive set up in the meta that you just literally can’t out in engine.
The people cry too much, just for one time in a million that card make this, now everyone remembered and want it banned But nobody talks when Couch blocks 9 zones in YCS Vegas 3v3, that was ok
Just came back into the game and started watching some of the big global tournements and i dont seem to understand why people are beefing with EEV. makes no sense. Same thing as royal tribute back in the day. Alot of cards that are blowout to certain decks. the reason why its made is to blowout decks that are OD or OP. A lot of decks cant use it. Learn how to play around it or get caught slipping.
I feel like yugioh players treat the game like League of Legends where they expect the patches to address what counters them so that their desired champion is “playable” but the really just want it to be OP when instead they don’t realize that every strategy is playable/op as long as you have the correct build for certain situations. It’s like everybody wants their deck to be better than average but they don’t have the creativity or thought process to challenge themselves to overcome certain obstacles their deck has so instead they’re like “this needs to be fixed” when it truly doesn’t.
It is like saying ban Nib. As long as the games power level is so high, unfair cards like evenly, nib, droll, and even eev are acceptable. I would love to see the game get to the point where they are banned, but we just are not there.
@@ASAINATLhow do u search eev turn 1 except having exactly cooclock/lady and another trap that meet activate condition where cooclock is a 1 of in like 99% of lab decks
@@TungLe-hw3to big welcome can search cooclock turn 2 if you already have silver out, bounce cooclock discard can activate erad same turn silver sets it, all in draw phase
@@ASAINATL card combo? Like josh said also then, if u pull off 3 cards combo with no counter, u are ok to win the game. Its not easy to pull off 3 card specific combo. EEV isnt even instant win, its high roll csrds that usually only rip 2 average or so. U get hand knowledge but that doesnt means u win the game outright.
yeah, I think it just got unlucky. I mean, is a strong card. But it's also the weakness of kashtira (Needs to play a lot of spells/ consistency). If he had a copy of anything he should have won for sure. Plus the kashtira player won by Iblee lock, and anti-spell locks last rounds... and the fact that literally block all your monster zones and all your spell zones was accepted lol. The counter play is that you can search spells and they aren't destroyed. The deck loses to an ash/belle I mean, and anything to block lady. Virus is high roll. Sometimes you need to shotgun before you get hit by duster/storm. And then you see Aluber or Unicorn in their hand and just cry.
Lmao that chat is bias as hell. Imagine unironically hating on EEV and by extension Lab because of the perfect rate scenario happening. He is right. I can think of like 50 cards in YGO easy that is currently legal used in meta decks before I would touch EEV that only a whopping one deck can very rarely get a blowout like this. People are also forgetting too this was against Kash which by design is way more toxic then any trap deck ever. Hence why I said people on the chat are bias most likely because they bought Kash and find them fair in comparison.
yeah eradicator is definitely degen but by banning every degen card youre opening a can of worms. royal tribute should be banned and stuff like that too. dont care how infrequent it goes off it simply ruins games also blowouts are so common what you mean its common as fuck
If you played Tears or Kashtira at full strength, I don't want to hear any of your crying. In fact, just stop crying. You have no right to complain about EEV
The entire nature of the game is like that. There are cards that can dismantle a deck, but that same card may not affect other decks at all. Stop the whining already.
an die MD spieler: wo soll das kundenorientiert/marktorientiert healthy sein innem best of 1 game EEV auf 3 zu lassen, wodurch dann die kommende haupteinnahmequelle rumheulen kann das sie wegen ihr verlieren und das ja total unfair sei, weil der gegner sie immer auf der starthand hat :^)
People pretending like EEV needs to rip 5 to be good. Even if it only rips 2-3 you probably win the game especially if your board still has interaction since you literally see their hand and knows what to stop. Let's say you are playing against VS and you hit NOTHING with EEV, but see they have Razen and no bouncers. If you imperm that Razen (something you should never do especially when they have 6 in hand) you probably just win the game off that.
Farwelcome is the only one that sets a trap, and it has to respond to an attack. Only lady can set a trap from deck outside of farwelcome. To actually set up the combo going first, you need stovie to set a labyrnth trap, you need lady and you need cooclock so that you can activate the trap the turn it is set in order to trigger lady.
@chewdoom8415 No, you don't. Activate Welcome Special Summoning Lady Labyrinth Activate Big Welcome, and CL2 Lady Labyrinth setting Epidemic, Summon Cooclock and return it to hand Declare Cooclock and on resolution Activate Epidemic.
@@TheNman_Val 1. You said both traps allow you to set traps, which means something totally different from what you are describing. 2. That is still a 3 card combo. That is 3 cards you need to pull off. Count
EEV is like Rhongo in Master Duel. The builds for Rhongo isn't good but it's very toxic if the strategy goes through, just like EEV. We'd rather it just doesn't exist at all.
I do find it funny that this happened 10 years after Hoban flipped Eradicator on Spellbooks to win NA Nats in 2013.
NA doesn't have Nats
@@zomenis What....
@@zomenis Yes, we do lol.
@@mulldrifterz6469 nope. The NA region has the NAWCQ, which is equivalent to the European WCQ. It doesn't have the equivalent of national championships
Will continue to say it, commentor's and the crowd practically popping off was the best part, to funny
I mean hand looping for six does not happen even though people are pretending EEV is some broken card they does they every game
Yeah it was pretty hype tbh. Moments like that are good for the game
@@RoyaltonDrummer922Losing hand cause you didn't draw the out? (Ash Blossom)
Furthermore, combos like Gumblar, Trish & Smoke grenade requires skill, but Lab the only thing he did was to set 2 and pass... Not using Lady + Cooclock to set Virus, not only is a toxic result, but didn't require skill to be hyped like that
I hate Kashtira, while being a Lab player, but the cheerful reaction for something similar to VFD is actually disappointing
@@Jyxerohe literally drew only spells into a hard drawn EEV that’s just bad luck
It was pretty hype tbh, it was deserved. Such a very rare moment and that literally won him the game. Its indeed hype moment, maybe except for tom lol.
Remember when ppl cheered for rivalry flipped in rikka few ycs ago? Lowkey ppl dont realize as spectator, they loves blowout cards (except mystic mine maybe) being flipped at crucial moment. Whether floodgates evenly etc.
Even Tom looked surprised at how it worked out, because he knows that circumstance was just so 1 in a million- that it not only happened, but it happened live. Had this been anti spell or anything similar no one would’ve cared, had Tom been on runick he would’ve just chain link 6 his entire hand and again no one would’ve cared- it really was just Spicy luck and card choices
Cuckshira players seething lmao
This was the best case EEV could have. It's the magical charismas land on hit. It's basically the same level of punish for Dual land heavy MTG decks to blood moon. Some times you just get boned by chance. Only reason people noticed it was due to being in Finals. If it was in swiss no one would have cared.
while EEV is still a heavily unbalanced card (doesn't have to rip the entire hand in order for it to be game breaking as you still get hand knowledge no matter how many cards you hit), you are 100% correct. The fallout is only this high because it happened in Finals.
@@RayMon504 Coming from other games where hand info can be commonly gotten, it isn't always going to get you a win. Hell it can suck as you just see you have no out to your opp's hand if they play it right. But that just shows how massive something like hand info can shift power in yugioh to other games.
@@RayMon504there have been games I've still won when my opponent eradicator'd me and games I've still lost even after I resolved eradicator. It's not an insta win like most people make it seem to be. Hand knowledge is cool an all but what of the cards in their hands say I don't care we are going to OTK you.
Instead of people being upset about Eradicator, how about being happy another Kashtira deck didn't win a big event?
The play itself was incredibly greedy, he just happened to be incredibly rewarded by it
If the Eradicator had been for 1-2 instead of 5 the Lab player would have lost imo
I agree with this a lot. EEV is not something you can just throw in as many decks like floodgates and it still requires some knowledge of what the opponent is playing(though likely you'll mostly be declaring spell still). I think what people forget a lot is matchup spreads. There's always going to be certain strategies your deck will be weak to. And their strategy will he weak against other decks too.
This crumbles at going 1st game 2, knowing what your opponent is on, and then blowing them out because you call out Spell and suddenly "Yeah game 3" because spells are not only Starters but Extenders and Counters too.
The thing about Eradicator is that it produces massive non-games, like every other floodgate - if your deck gets hosed by it you pretty much just give up and go next game, but there's also the random chance that it doesn't do anything. Eradicator does hit a pretty common resource - Spell cards - but it also can randomly whiff horribly and requires serious investment to pull off. If not hard-drawn can be beaten by common hand traps, you need to get a large monster on field you're willing to throw away, you generally need to go first for it to do anything relevant, and it's a terrible topdeck in a grind situation. I think Joshua is correct in that it's not really as obnoxious as a lot of legal floodgates, and if we're gonna ban EEV, we might as well ban all the other majorly toxic cards too at the same time.
I mean, to be honest, the number of decks and cards in YGO that can create a situation where you straight up don't play the game if the opponent draws well and you have no interaction is comically high already. So I think it makes a lot of sense that Josh is saying "yeah the game is just like this now, and it's not really actually that common that you get sacced that hard"
Thanks editor for mentioning the vod date to check the gameplay that was skipped for the copyright thing!!!
Had that guy opened 2 monster cards we wouldnt even be having this discussion. The truth is all the virus cards are very high roll and have a huge opportunity cost to playing them
But like that's the point, it's a terrible card design that shouldn't be part of yugioh. A card that is usually hard to set up, but some decks can abuse it way easier, and its also a card that can sometimes do nothing and sometimes win the game 100% by itself with no counterplay. Its a terrible, terrible card design that just screams "no skill rng fest"
@@charlesfort6602 Eradicator is a risky play. It could literally do nothing against your opponent. And if that was the scenario, lab would’ve wasted a trap card and a monster on board for essentially nothing. I like cards that promote risk, and don’t think it’s bad card design to have cards that do that. It was equally if not more likely that the labrynth player was Uber punished by the kashtira player. But they weren’t and it produced a hype moment.
@@charlesfort6602same as most floodgates
@@Exisist5151 you literally just explained to us what terrible card design is. Good job, you played yourself.
@@Monkeyman12534 it's almost like they also should be banned 🤔 😳
I think on the flip side of blowouts and probably even more common is how many players evenly matched a set five pass leaving them with one card and no one complains
Because those players are bias. Even spell decks can run Evenly Matched if it’s against a backrow deck. Bias players love blowouts when it doesn’t happen to them.
The final game was just incredibly lucky. There is nothing to be done about opponent having the perfect setup to counter your hand. It wasn't even high probability but it happens. I don't think anything should be done to limit cards based on such a result.
Thinking back, in response to Big Welcome, Kashtira could have attempted blind Cosmic. The only reason for Lab to welcome in standby like that is to resolve EEV anyway. It would be a low probability cosmic attempt (1/4). But when holding 5 spells in hand, was it not worth it to gamble?
If being inconsistent and requiring a difficult set up and requiring specific two or so card combos justifies degeneracy, I don't want tcg players in MD crying about Sales Ban Rhongo anymore
Rhongo is literally a 1 card combo that is literally a free win with no counter. At least EEV can be bad. Call Spell, reveal like 4 monsters lmao, have fun
Perfect Explanation to going forward in YGO
joshua is right. this is the state of the game you accept if youre still in ygo, theres more serious problem ( cards ) but if you think konami will change anything to make the game more healthy youre lost. yugioh being a fair and balanced game has long been gone.
I get what people are saying now about it being a bit easier than what is being described. It is actually a 2 card combo as long as you have welcome and big welcome.
Welcome summon lady > big welcome and chain lady to set > big welcome summons and bounces stovie to activate its effect on a new chain in order to activate the card set by lady.
Something people don't really mention about EEV is that you can still play around it. It's strongest on the initial activate and on normal draw. Outside of those two instances, you can still play and get Spells/Traps in hand by just searching them out.
Also can use ash which most ppl nowdays play anyway
Josh always has the best takes
Sure it would be nice to have back and forth yugioh more often. But with how powerful modern decks are, it's just a matter of who can blow out and take over the game turn 1/2?
Nah. It would be nice and thats how it should be. Yugioh shouldnt be I drew X so I win, but it is.
@@Xero-rr2olwell yea its the way with modern YGO, snd no one can do anything about it, maybe except konami emselves.
The problem definitely isn’t the searchable special summoned from deck indestructible 3000 attack trap trick that pops 1
You are right, she is not the problem
Josh compares Virus to a lot of floodgates, but forgets that "hand rip" cards have a special place in the banlist.
And most traditional floodgates have answers. Even Anti-spell can be hit with cosmic/twin twister in response to out it.
It's the same issue people have with D Barrier over even TCBOO and co. You cannot interact with set chainable normal trap cards. What are we supposed to play Epsilon? Come on now.
I mean they unlimit trishula and silva dark world still at 3 so yea. Lot hard rip card are still legal.
Its not hand rip cards that u are looking for, but generic full hand knowledge + rip cards. Thats why dushoot, confiscation, and even red lotus are banned recently.
Which EEV fits the bill, but its more restrictive than those cards above, as not all decks can even play it. Maybe hit to 1 like other virus like CCV.
Yea i fully agree with josh takes, as usual having best takes in yugituber community.
Tho i still think there is some chance of they are hitting EEV coz konami has history of hating and hitting generic "full hand knowledge + rip 1 card" cards. Thats why they banned confiscation and dushoot in the first place, and recently red lotus.
Tho EEV is way more restrcitive and less generic than those cards above. But yea its not unlikely that they will hit it. So not exactly coz its less toxic than other floodgates
0:30 the most helpful editor on youtube :D
Nobody gonna talk about the Game 3 of Semifinals (Kashtira vs Rikka)?
Kashtira flipped Anti-Spell which won him the game. Anti-Spell needs no setup but EEV is the problem?
Ppl only looking finals lmao. They forgot anti spell basically better card overall than EEV, as its way more generic and achieve almost same thing, minus hand knowledge.
Anti spell AND Iblee, Iblee itself is a kryptonite to Rikka-sunavalon
I think eradicator sits in the spot, where you can argue if it is, either the starting point of an unfair card, or if it is like the entry of rather fair cards. I think we will see what konami does with it, since it is very restrictive and you need a certain monster, with certain stats to activate it. Also like mentioned, its only good going first.
You don't have such restrictions if you copy the effect with the upcoming transaction rollback trap (you can use beatrice to foolish both rollback + the trap of your choice)
To be honest part of unfair cards discussion that people miss is that they think more about If its usable than noticing "oh this can Go broken If konami wants to sell It" I doubt konami didnt though about EEV when making the new labrynth lady, and tbh thats kinda part of yugioh, a Lot of people wait for their fav broken card to get a good support, before adamancipator people loved block dragon
@@julienfrey6808EEV can be triggered by tributing a Bystial, if people are going to try and force EEV into decks then we'll see Bystials, Trap Trick and EEV when we hit a Chaos format 😂
If we talk about EEV, we also have to talk about cards like Shifter.
@@lisaruhm6681 Yes. I want all lingering floodgates taken out back. EEV is just another card that needs gutted, but finally has a use case, sorta like Kurikara, it was a nothing Secret then suddenly it got its use case and is now a staple.
But when you set 5 pass and the opponent opens duster and evenly and those cards instantly win it’s fine lmao. People are so biased in this discussion. If we ban EEV we ban duster evenly and lightning storm it’s that simple. And for people red reboot to 3. Sure but then let’s print a green and orange reboot for monsters and spells and also release those cards. Oh wait people would instantly be all over the place and crying
He should've opened Shifter Theosis Birth tbh would've helped a lot... lmaooo /s
I feel like this is creating an important divide in the community when it comes to floodgate v no floodgate style of play, i personally favor the thought of no floodgate but then we go back to a time in ygo where the best stuff is the best stuff and it remains to be the best stuff. Floodgates is the only way "bad players" have fun with the game because its like their comfort wheel of well no matter what konami releases, i can just flip rivalry or X floodgate and just win off of backrow.
So Arise isn't a floodgate on legs? What about Protos? Or Colossus? Floodgate decks rarely win because they are incredibly slow and we have so many answers post-side, but when combo decks incorporate floodgate effects then it becomes incredibly toxic format.
At least you didn't actually called a "bad player" Dinh-Kha, who i personally credit more on his win that his decklist or even luck with EEV hitting 5 and believe he would have done incredibly well with any deck. It was just a meta-call, like Exosifter winning.
Nothing u can do with modern YGO, floodgates are here to stay for long term, especislly in trap form, in monster form is more likely to be hit.
Even if konami ban very few floodgates, u just have so many options for floodgates and konami will still printing more and more.
If we ban EEV we better be banning Evenly, holding EEV for Evenly is the only thing that keeps me sane playing Labrynth.
If you get 3 card comboed, you take the L and move on
If we attempted to ban every card that created non-games regardless of consistency or usability, our ban list would expand by like 200 cards lmao. Sometimes your opponent just draws the perfect counter- that's YGO.
and if the banlist got expanded by those 200 cards, the game would be better off for it. If even 1 of those 200 cards got banned then the game is better off for it.
I will always play to my parameters but the lack of ways to stop trap effects like expulsion is another example but yeah their is far to many cards in that power level and if thats the bar you want set then we’ll be playing table 500
As an OCG player, I do hate Superheavy Samurai Earth Block Dragon. Smoke Grenade is a major factor here, plus Block Dragon's insane resource pulling, but at the end of the day, the deck suffers from consistency issue occasionally, and can be choked with Infinite Impermanence on Gallant Granite. So you got to accept it.
To this just pronounced the issue that best of 3 game 2/3 are often way too onesided by cards like dbarrier, eev, antispell, tcboo. If you do bo3, you have to ban hard going 1st floodgates.
I mean even if they do ban Eradicator, what exactly do we lose? It's not like Lab or other decks need it to function.
We’ll have one less “I win card.”
@@TheOfficialRandomGuy It's only an "I win card" against poorly constructed decks.
@@Cybertech134 bias take.
@@Cybertech134 based take.
@Cybertech134 poorly constructed huh????? Sky striker and runick are properly constructed decks that auto lose to it
People need to learn shit happens, like we had so many times on streams where people won game 3 going first in time by using a card to gain life or burn for life, at this time then if people want to complain about something that very rarely happens then lets ban every card to gain/burns life points then.
Its way less auto-win than most floodgates.
Josh with consistently the most based and level headed takes
Virus setting and activating in draw you can resaobly do like 50% of the time but the effect is only this powerful rarely and even less powrful game 1
Dark world players looking at spell heavy decks getting hit by one card blowouts:
"First time?"
dimension shifter, D fissure, drollandlock, ,etc......
Definitely agree, these things are part of the game and every meta deck has something toxic within the engine/deck so just gotta deal with it.
There are currently two types of trap card floodgates: Continuous trap cards and normal trap cards like EEV or any virus really, D Barrier, and more recently via tech choice the spiritual water art where they can be played outside of the opponent's main phase to force very little interaction. The latter is probably more unfair at the moment partially because there are literally only two outs: crossout and epsilon (outside of those cards there is literally NOTHING you can do to stop it. while not the entire reason it's 100% part of the reason Appointer got banned.
Well yea konami kinda hate generic cards that give full hand knowledge of opp. Which is why trap dushoot and appointer banned. Also confiscation.
Tho EEV has way more restrcition that lotus or dushoot. But not that unlikely they will hit it. Maybe to 1 so only very few decks can do it like laby furniture setup only, or heavenly prison.
Dbarrier isnt providing hand knowledge at all. Its been insane for long time in lot of formsts, i dont think they will even hit it, let alone ban it.
other decks seting up incredible boards that blow out the opponent? fine. nobody cares.
Trap deck does the same but with more restrictions? everybody is outraged and calls for a ban.
Combo masturbators in a nutshell
Facts lmao. Even trap deck by itself is rare and i wish more trap decks exists, even if playing floogates.
This is so dumb who says its fine for combo setting up insane boards, none. Stop with the whataboutism.
@@random_name2113 Combo masturbators are not as demonized by the playerbase compared to trap deck players.
Just because of one example the card should be banned? He also could've flipped antispell and it were the exact same.
Funny thing that kash player also win with this same scenario in semi against rikka player
Guess karma hit really hard
@@abdurachmanromzy4778well deserved then lmao
Hmm in this case tho, tom had cosmic iirc. So if kha was using anti spell, he wouldve lost maybe.
Then again same scenario if tom had ash instead of cosmic, tom wouldve negate the welcome summon snd kha wouldvee lost maybe.
Konami: Fusion archetype
Community: ban super poly
Eradicator has been doing this
it is true that eradicator isn't a real issue, the question is just what do we want banning to be for. a card like snake rain should be banned as if we ever get a tear stile reptile deck that card is like one of the best cards in the game even if it right now is laughably bad.
with how cards are being banned we shouldn't ban it as potential was never a reason to ban a card and eradicator doesn't even win you the game if your name isn't exactly sky striker
ok one thing I didn't get (I didn't see the game, only read about it):
lovely labrynth says "if another monster leaves the field by your normal trap effect, destroy a monster from field/hand" which is how he got rid of the kash monster. but which monster left the field? I thought he tributed lovely labrynth for EEV. but even then, that would be tribute for cost so it wouldn't count as "leaving by trap effect" right? what did I miss? :D
The the kashtira cards getting destroyed in hand happened in game 1, not game 3 with eev.
The lab player had lady on field. He activated big welcome to summon lovely then bounce lady, meaning lovely could trigger on the next chain.
@@chewdoom8415 wasn't it the iconic game 3 where he traps because of EEV and his 5th card was a kash monster that was destroyed in hand by lady's effect?
@@frankunodostres473 my bad. Welcome bounced Adrianna then summoned lovely, which let lovely bounce after the chain resolved
@@chewdoom8415 that was the info I was missing! thanks
Remember when people were mad Eradicator was playable when Lair of Darkness came out? Now we can turbo out a body and the trap itself and some people STILL want to defend it. Brainworm playerbase some days.
Arise Heart definitely at the very top of that ban list
why are people wanting to ban EEV when there´s cards like super poly out there?
Super Poly is ass and is seeing absolutely no play whatsoever.
Well luck is also a part of this game
I do agree that EEV isn't the most toxic card you can be facing down, it is true that it's a niche card that requires setup and is situational enough that not every deck auto loses to it. But I think we have to separate what we expect vs what we want to happen. I don't expect Konami touching EEV probably ever (unless they print a deck specifically made for it, like they made Kash just to break Mind Hacker), but I wish it goes away. The same goes for every floodgate you mentioned though
They did print a deck specifically made for it. It's called Lair of Darkness.
@@shapular I meant a good deck
Agree 100%, just because we don’t think something will happen doesn’t mean we shouldn’t ask for it.
droll incident
If eradicator only took out 1 card and lady took out another, no one would complain about eradicator right now
It’s because it was such a blowout people are crying
Free hand info for three turns and the potential to hand loop is banworthy
@@knnydp Deck Devastation has the potential to hand loop. You want that banned, too?
@@Cybertech134 spells and traps are generally way more impactful. And don’t get snarky because you have a different opinion
@@knnydp I'll pile on the snark as much as I desire, thanks. And yes, spells and traps are way more impactful. Do you seriously believe that you just deserve to play a shit ton of "way more impactful" cards without any risk to it? Spare me.
I want ALL the Virus cards banned/errata'd/retrained to CCV levels, not because they're good, but because they're poorly designed cards. EEV in particular I only want gone because of how stupid it makes the Labrynth mirror. That's clear bias and I'm not afraid to admit it.
You definitely don't have to play the furniture build of labyrinth to do the combo. There are other ways.
Also, I agree with Josh's take on EEV. There are way more 1 card combo that are problematic that need to be addressed.
4:00 JOSH HAS COME’D!
Master Duel limiting eradicator epidemic virus to decrease the chances of hard drawing it, could actually be impactful if it really is a 3 card combo to search and use it in labrynth
"Requires setup" wasn't a thing when people wanted to ban expulsion.
They are both braindead, but activating branded fusion is not a setup lmao
EEV needs 3 cards combo, expulsion is a one-card combo and it's incredibly consistent, there's a big difference in that (I do wanted both to be banned tho, they are not fair for the game)
Expulsion was happening turn 1 lab player made a good choice to side in eev knowing the guy was siding in power spells to break his board in addition to his already powerful kash
I feel like Dark ruler no more is one of those prime examples of a card that’s chaotic neutral. Gives you a chance to get through the board without interruption except hand traps or spell/traps. Card is such a necessary evil no one ever really wants to ban it because everyone sides it 😂
I find it funny that people are crying about this, this is what trap decks do. People hate on trap decks until they are bad then they yearn for them to come back. A vicious cycle
Is it to much to ask for a good trap deck that isn't toxic?
(Ignore the fact that the modern deck can't be good if it isn't toxic)
Yu-gi-oh in a nutshell.
People hate on floodgate trap decks because they are "I resolve one card I win the game". No one hates on Salad or SwSo who end on a trap in every turn 1 because they are midrange decks.
@@rovad55 "Toxic" 🤡
@@vixozas yes they can, this card isn’t even very good like imagine this was a good card like a counter trap.
eradicator is a fking must when nothing keeps spell cards in check anti spell doesnt counts its garbage card
hey Josh I'm still in shock that it's at 3 it should still be limited, they had to errata crush card just to bring it back to 3
Thingy ist in der Tat dein neues Lieblingswort 😅
I view Erad in the same sense as Rhongo. Without Gossip Shadow, Rhongo turns into an inconsistent meme that sometimes steals games. Should Rhongo be banned despite it's inconsisteny? Of course! Getting blown out before having a chance to play the game is stupid. Consistency should not be the driving factor behind whether or not a degen card gets banned.
Should it be banned? Yes. There are like 30 other cards that should be banned first? Also yes.
More than that, maybe hundreds, u can see josh attempt to make the game "balanced" lol. It literally will hit hundreds of cards. From flodgates, blowout cards, generic boss montsers, etc.
When I used eradicator on a kash player at ycs london I only got 1 card and 1 chainable twin twister and lost lmao it can really go both ways
It was a canon event
Sd to hear statements like "I ave come to terms with the fact they will never ban toxic floodgate cards" (I am paraphrasing, the cards he lsited all boil down to that kinda thing)
I think the biggest issue with EEV (and similarly Deck Dev and D Barrier) is that there’s not even a chance to interact with the card itself, they just flip it and it either does almost nothing, FTKs, or turn skips (depending on the card used and hand)
All you get for ways to stop the viruses is like… exactly shotgunning super poly and fusing their targets before they have a chance to activate it
Just play Epsilon 😀
I'll see myself out.
dude we all know ygo players cant read but yall cant listen as well? Dude Josh explained how those cards are not the same
You interact with it by building your deck better and not playing so many damn spell cards.
@@Cybertech134damn i guess the runick, kashtira, and branded players can all just get fucked right?
Its not a choice, it is a REQUIREMENT to play most decks this format, labrynth is like the only one that doesnt necessarily maindeck a bunch of spells
@@obtusem5015he didnt though?
I get that he said he thinks D barrier is more toxic (which i agree with fully) but it is fundamentally the same problem here, there is no point of interaction on flipping either it or a virus. D barrier instantly wins the game if it resolves usually, yeah, whereas EEV is more like coinflip but the idea is the same
Yugioh TCG duelists love to cry and whine about a sacky card.
It is what it is, accept that its just a card game, and keep playing.
tl;dr that scenario was the perfect storm for the card, it is a problem but there are more cards with way wider use cases that should be addressed prior.
Good talk though, not that I expect Josh to kneejerk react about it but happy he facilitated an actual discussion.
Imma be sad if virus gets banned.
how does mannequin cat and chaos hunter beat shifter?
So what happens is you make mannequin car and summon shifter to you opponents side of the field and you from what I presume use it to summon chaos hunter that stops cards from being banished. How that works is that shifter tells the card to go to the banish pile, but chaos hunter says no sir you won’t be banishing any cards today, and every thing is canceled until chaos hunter goes off board or shifter ends. -10 + 10 = 0
@@Csthh I thought shifter says your opponent cant ban cards, doesnt that mean you still can have cards banished? Does shifter's effect only apply while he is in the GY?
@@EPMeokazi shifter says the same thing as macro cosmos but it lasts for you and your opponents turn only, chaos hunter is the one that says your opponent can not banish cards.
Make Mannequin Cat, Use effect to summon Shifter to opponents field, Use Cat's effect to summon your own Chaos Hunter from deck.
Shifter's effect to banish card is now turned off because Chaos Hunter does not allow cards to be banished by the Opponent.
As the world's largest Runick hater, I think EEV is actually too weak, we need a version that doesn't need a tribute and is also a handtrap
Fuck no
Give us a card that puts fountain and tip on the banlist
Many cards would have done the same thing I.e. anti-spell
woo josh forgot to mention summon limit :)
Nah some Kashtira fanboy in Konami got his feelings hurt his fav deck got destroyed by a spell card thar has been used since Lab came out last year. Why limit it now and not 9 months ago ?
I agree
But seeing the hand for 6 turns is the real unreasonable part for control decks. It is my firm belief that this card, despite not being a CT, is just as bad as Red Reboot
U could play traptrick and the new tutor trap so its technicaly 9 copies
Joshua's point is very weird. There being more toxic cards in the game doesn't suddenly make EEV ok. 1 card hand looping for 5 is insane and even if the combo to search it is not consistent it is still there. Kashtira's 5 zone lock combo wasn't consistent either yet it was still very powerful. Resolving a 3 card combo doesn't always win the game, it certainly can put you massively ahead but the problem with floodgates like EEV is that they don't let your opponent try to respond to your board.
He's not saying EEV is okay. He's just saying there are cards which are more toxic that should be more of a priority for getting hit. But he's also given up on any of these cards getting hit at this point.
So the crazy thing about the ban list is Konami can ust put a bunch of cards on it; they don't have a limit.
It's not a guaranteed loop for 5, and it's not even that many most of the time. You know you can play more monsters instead of spells right? Nobody is holding a gun to your head.
@@prancinNOOB In theory sure. But I doubt they're allowed to just ban 15 floodgates at once. And they've not been touching the trap floodgates at all for a while now.
You ignore that "hand looping for 5" is completely random and unless it skips the opponent's turn, it's insta loss because you commit everything to that play. If Tom had a monster heavy hand, everyone would have laughed at EEV calling it copium.
5 Zone lock was guaranteed, and prevented either monster USE entirely or S/T use, and it also meant -1 ED, and also -7 MD crippling multi-engine deck purely on RNG hitting one-offs, then your Arise or your opponent's Pot would threaten a deckout while crippling the deck even more.
Of course EEV is a toxic card, but Anti-Spell can be equally bad and even worse if Iblee is along with it.
Sometimes you just draw a bad hand against your opponent’s set up. It’s not even “draw the out” if he has at least 2 different in engine card in hand tom could have won the match.
And even with that hand, he did have a chance of stopping that play, it’s an insane play, but a play nontheless.
There are much more oppressive set up in the meta that you just literally can’t out in engine.
The people cry too much, just for one time in a million that card make this, now everyone remembered and want it banned
But nobody talks when Couch blocks 9 zones in YCS Vegas 3v3, that was ok
Just came back into the game and started watching some of the big global tournements and i dont seem to understand why people are beefing with EEV. makes no sense. Same thing as royal tribute back in the day. Alot of cards that are blowout to certain decks. the reason why its made is to blowout decks that are OD or OP. A lot of decks cant use it. Learn how to play around it or get caught slipping.
Eradicator is fine I have won so many games like this and it's not super crazy compared to other cards.
I think eradicator is just as overpowered as runick negating or destroying every card you activate and then drawing 3.
I feel like yugioh players treat the game like League of Legends where they expect the patches to address what counters them so that their desired champion is “playable” but the really just want it to be OP when instead they don’t realize that every strategy is playable/op as long as you have the correct build for certain situations. It’s like everybody wants their deck to be better than average but they don’t have the creativity or thought process to challenge themselves to overcome certain obstacles their deck has so instead they’re like “this needs to be fixed” when it truly doesn’t.
It is like saying ban Nib. As long as the games power level is so high, unfair cards like evenly, nib, droll, and even eev are acceptable. I would love to see the game get to the point where they are banned, but we just are not there.
the difference between an unsearchable 3 of nibiru and EEV is labrynth engine sets it directly from deck turn 1
Nah. See those cards are alot easier to stop. Eev isnt. And its searchable.
@@ASAINATLhow do u search eev turn 1 except having exactly cooclock/lady and another trap that meet activate condition where cooclock is a 1 of in like 99% of lab decks
@@TungLe-hw3to big welcome can search cooclock turn 2 if you already have silver out, bounce cooclock discard can activate erad same turn silver sets it, all in draw phase
@@ASAINATL card combo? Like josh said also then, if u pull off 3 cards combo with no counter, u are ok to win the game. Its not easy to pull off 3 card specific combo.
EEV isnt even instant win, its high roll csrds that usually only rip 2 average or so. U get hand knowledge but that doesnt means u win the game outright.
Thats it, we need IO back
Did you nust say its hard to set up Eradicator in Labrynth?!?!
yeah, I think it just got unlucky. I mean, is a strong card. But it's also the weakness of kashtira (Needs to play a lot of spells/ consistency). If he had a copy of anything he should have won for sure.
Plus the kashtira player won by Iblee lock, and anti-spell locks last rounds... and the fact that literally block all your monster zones and all your spell zones was accepted lol.
The counter play is that you can search spells and they aren't destroyed. The deck loses to an ash/belle I mean, and anything to block lady.
Virus is high roll. Sometimes you need to shotgun before you get hit by duster/storm. And then you see Aluber or Unicorn in their hand and just cry.
Lmao that chat is bias as hell. Imagine unironically hating on EEV and by extension Lab because of the perfect rate scenario happening. He is right. I can think of like 50 cards in YGO easy that is currently legal used in meta decks before I would touch EEV that only a whopping one deck can very rarely get a blowout like this.
People are also forgetting too this was against Kash which by design is way more toxic then any trap deck ever. Hence why I said people on the chat are bias most likely because they bought Kash and find them fair in comparison.
yeah eradicator is definitely degen but by banning every degen card youre opening a can of worms. royal tribute should be banned and stuff like that too. dont care how infrequent it goes off it simply ruins games
also blowouts are so common what you mean its common as fuck
If you played Tears or Kashtira at full strength, I don't want to hear any of your crying. In fact, just stop crying. You have no right to complain about EEV
The entire nature of the game is like that. There are cards that can dismantle a deck, but that same card may not affect other decks at all. Stop the whining already.
an die MD spieler:
wo soll das kundenorientiert/marktorientiert healthy sein innem best of 1 game EEV auf 3 zu lassen, wodurch dann die kommende haupteinnahmequelle rumheulen kann das sie wegen ihr verlieren und das ja total unfair sei, weil der gegner sie immer auf der starthand hat :^)
People pretending like EEV needs to rip 5 to be good. Even if it only rips 2-3 you probably win the game especially if your board still has interaction since you literally see their hand and knows what to stop.
Let's say you are playing against VS and you hit NOTHING with EEV, but see they have Razen and no bouncers. If you imperm that Razen (something you should never do especially when they have 6 in hand) you probably just win the game off that.
2 card combo, no? Both welcomes let you use any trap in the game provided your opponent cannot block your lovely activation
Farwelcome is the only one that sets a trap, and it has to respond to an attack. Only lady can set a trap from deck outside of farwelcome.
To actually set up the combo going first, you need stovie to set a labyrnth trap, you need lady and you need cooclock so that you can activate the trap the turn it is set in order to trigger lady.
@chewdoom8415 No, you don't.
Activate Welcome Special Summoning Lady Labyrinth
Activate Big Welcome, and CL2 Lady Labyrinth setting Epidemic, Summon Cooclock and return it to hand
Declare Cooclock and on resolution Activate Epidemic.
@@TheNman_Val 1. You said both traps allow you to set traps, which means something totally different from what you are describing.
2. That is still a 3 card combo. That is 3 cards you need to pull off. Count
@chewdoom8415 dude what??? Its legitimately two cards you have too set
@@TheNman_Val oh my bad. You are right
Skill Drain and Summon Limit can enable a fun back and forth experience (if used in a deck that just wants to play but otherwise can't keep up)
EEV is like Rhongo in Master Duel.
The builds for Rhongo isn't good but it's very toxic if the strategy goes through, just like EEV.
We'd rather it just doesn't exist at all.