Yes. Because he had Lawrence frickin Taylor on his defense. And that credit goes to Bill Parcels. Not Belicheck. Taylor didn’t give a shit about Bellicheck’s schemes either. Dude never showed up to meetings on time but when he was on the field he was a monster who made Quarterbacks shit their pants. Keep in mind back then they let defenders play defense and actually hit the Quarterback, unlike today where they flag you for everything. Anyone would win with Lawrence Taylor on Defense back then.
@@youtubeistryingtocensorme one player on defense does not win you games. there is 11 players on the field. the defensive co-ordinator has to manage that one player playing with the other 10 players, some of whom are pro bowl level themselves its a nightmare, its like playing with aaron rogers, you have to deal with his chit and keep the rest of the offense focused all at the same time.
Right but the question was can he catch him...the answer is yes. It's not "has he passed him now". He has a good chance to, but yeah it'll be some years before we know
Answer is no reason is they play in the afc new qbs are better and lamar burrow maybe Allen and rest of the qbs will have something to say if he was in the nfc they prob get to 5 but Andy will probly coach 5 more maybe 6 years and Kelcy will retire in 2 maybe 3 at most
@@BasicBodThor Aint catching him. Andy is at 2 Super Bowl rings as a head coach (maybe 3 if he wins this one) at age 65. Bill has 6 as a head coach. Unless Andy somehow pulls off a magical run where he wins 3 rings in the next 5 years... I just don't see him reaching Bill. You don't see many guys coaching past age 70, let alone winning championships.
I don't know man. Without Brady Belichick can't do anything. He can't even have winning seasons. Reid led teams to a Super Bowl and 5 championship games and lots of winning seasons prior to having Mahomes.
This isn’t even a comparison right now as far as I’m concerned. 6 super bowls vs 2 super bowls. “Oh, he’s been to 6 conference championship games though!” From 2010-2018 the patriots and bill belicheck went to the afc championship every year. Nine years in a row, they were competing for the afc championship. That’ll never happen again. There is no logical comparison
Yeah they literally said...if he gets 4 or 5 it will be a discussion...only Wildes was arguing Bill is ahead today for some reason (they all, and I'm sure most ppl agree on that)
"Nine years in a row, they were competing for the afc championship. That’ll never happen again." it could happen again very easily! if KC makes it to the AFC game this year (one more win), that will be SIX STRAIGHT AFC games for the chiefs, and do it two more times in 2024 and 2025 season and you have EIGHT IN A ROW, close enough
Mahomes and Reid are 2/3 of the way there. Been to 6 straight. Kind of undermines your point that it will never happen again. Literally happening again while Bill was an active HC in the league while being in the same conference.
@@bernardobolota604 there were 8-12 teams when Russel won his rings and the Celtics were stacked with HOFers and thats just for starters without adding any of MJs stats or awards
They had this conversation once and Wildes said "any head coach with 2 rings is probably/definitely a hall of fame coach. You can't say it's close between Belichick and Reid when the difference between them is 2 Hall of fame careers." IMO One of the best things ever said on the show.
The only coaches close to Belichick are Chuck Noll, Bill Walsh, Don Shula, Tom Landry & Joe Gibbs...Andy Reid will be in the running in a few years though
You gotta put Parcells in there. He won wherever he went and was a great talent evaluator. He built the foundation of those early patriot superbowl teams. Give Parcells brady and they don't lose the eagles superbowl.
Aside from Belichick, you have to put Vince Lombardi ahead of those coaches you've listed. He won 5 championships with the Pack (incl. 2 SuperBowls) in 9 seasons
Belichick was 2-0 against Reid in the postseason. And after like '07 he's never had a Hall of Famer on defense outside of Revis for one year. Was McNabb, T.O., Westbrook srubs?
Clearly Andy had better team to bounce into. BB was given the sucky pats, and browns, if you are looking all around to figure whats this and whats that kinda deal.
@@scottadkins918 Don't tell Bill Parcells Belichick didn't have a good team when he took control of the Patriots. Parcells said this: "The Patriots were a good team; a good young team when Belichick was choosen as head coach".
Isn’t it funny how just a few years ago the GOAT was Brady…now for some BS reason it’s Mahomes….also the GOAT was Gronk, now it’s Kelce….also the GOAT was Belichick, now it’s Reid 🤣🤣 this is just stupid Lmao
Yes like they're forcing the Chiefs down our throats kind of like the WWF forced John Cena down everyone's throat. The Chiefs are the John Cena of the nfl
Bill Walsh is the best head coach of all time. Look at this coaching tree and lasting impact. Teams still use variations of his offense. Bellichik is the greatest coach of all time. There’s a difference between greatest and best.
I don’t understand how he is never mentioned in these talks, everyone’s caught in the moment and “what might happen” Even bill has talked about Walsh being the best.
Kevin i hate the NFL but i love your takes. See i am South African and we dont watch your less entertaining football but i watch all your segments. We have the real football here and we are world champs in the sport that eventually became American football. Kevin Bill had those because of Tom. So i need to ask you one question . Will you only read texts from Don anf his kids or will you get to read more of the ones that mean something. Bill won with Tom. He hasn't won one without that dude????
"We have the real football here " ......... "which is basically blacks from the ghettos being forced to play for whites for food and drinks" ............ "now THAT is real football"
They sound crazy. Do you realize how freaking hard it is to win a Lombardi?! Almost EVERYTHING has to go right, health, officiating, bounces of the ball. Mahommes is a beast but talking about winning THREE MORE LOMBARDIS is crazy at this point.
Joe Gibbs is the best coach. He won Three Superbowls with three different quarterbacks and three different running backs. Every other coach with multiple Super Bowl wins all did it with the same quarterback
Didn't Reid win a SB in Green Bay as QB coach? Also, Andy could pass him in wins in 6 years with 10 wins per year which isn't saying much given a 17 game schedule and Mahomes.
If Reid is the best head coach ever, and Kelce is the best tight end ever, and Tyreek is the most explosive receiver ever, we must start a conversation about… Well you know who
yeah we must start saying it was all those guys, reid was just riding them onto success. definitely kidding but yeah ppl use that excuse for BB and TB12
I've been saying this for awhile. When Reid finally has that inevitable heartattack from the quadruple stacker burgers he slams every evening, we're really going to see how good Mahomes is, and boy if he isn't, this show will be must watch television.
I wonder if such "analysts" existed having the same stupid discussions when Billichick was winning his. 6 to 2 is crazy comparison. and no, Andy wont ever surpass Bill.
why are rings the single most important thing? the coach just like any player can only do so much. Andy makes every team he coaches for better. the patriots have only gotten worst year after year since brady left. I do think bill is the goat for now but andy definitely doesnt need 6 or 8 to pass him.
I just simply don't understand the argument for Reid. It just isn't close. Bill has him by a country mile, and the offense to defense discussion is a goofy portion.
If “how well the coach did with different QBs” is a such a big factor, then shouldn’t Joe Gibbs be considered the greatest head coach of all time? He won 3 superbowls with 3 QBs (technically 4 since he was constantly swapping between Doug Williams and Jay Schroeder during his 2nd Super Bowl season), none of whom were hall of famers.
I like Wildes, but he's full of it this episode. Great coaching isn't just about championships. Championships require having the players. Winning championships is also largely situational (who did you play?) The reason why Jordan has six and Johnson five and Bird three is part because Johnson and Bird often were facing off in the finals many years. If they, like Jordan I believe, didn't have great competition they both might have had six or more. Likewise, Bud Grant's Minnesota Vikings might have won a SB if they hadn't draw the likes of the 70s Miami and Pittsburgh teams, both all-time greats. My criteria: a) Total wins, especially wins with different teams/collection of players/QBs b) Coaching innovations --- how much did they change the game? To me, it's hard to beat Don Shula. Then Tom Landry. Turn on the TV, watch football, and you see Shula and Landry's effect on the game on almost every play; that's how much their innovations affected the game. And they both consistently won with completely different teams (i.e., completely different rosters across the board), After those Bill Walsh (the only knock on him, his greatness all included Joe Montana). Likewise, Vince Lombardi (his tenure in Washington was too brief to see if he could have won with a second team). Paul Brown (but his success was largely the 1950s Browns). Other SB champ coaches, like Jimmy Johnson and Chuck Noll, just did it with one set of great players. So where does this leave both Reid and Belichick? I would say Reid has done more innovation than Belichick, and has won more consistently with vastly different rosters (Belichick's success only was consistent with TB12). Belichick's coaching innovation appears to be mostly centered on game-planning; at that there's none better, but more of Andy's innovation seems to be copyable than does Belichick's. So, I'd give Reid the nod.
Wilds analogy. If you are 6ft tall, you're tall. What if you're 36 ft tall. The discussion would be one person used a growth hormone to get to 36ft tall. And no one else did. Is there asterisks beside his name.
@@sportsretrospective6759 If you take the entirety of his coaching career, not just head coach, I think the championships and wins speak for themselves. Sure he had one of if not the greatest players in sports, but you can't be great at coaching a team sport without some great players.
@@lucascrane164 Oh sure. You need great players. But for me, the greatest head coach in sports history is Scotty Bowman. I don't know if you watch the NHL. But Bowman was in the Stanley cup finals in his first season as head coach in 1966-67, and in his last, 35 years later (2001-02). He's so far ahead of everyone else. He won 9 Stanley Cups (NHL record), and made the finals 13 times (NHL record). But the most important thing about Bowman, he changed! In the beginning, he was like Belichick. He was a dictator. But then, he changed. He was willing to adapt his coaching style to the new NHL in the 90s, and 2000s.
They both have arguably the greatest quarterback ever… Mahomes is great but he is not in the debate, he’s not even above Montana so how can you put him in the same realm as brady, if he can do it consistently for 20 years, putting up great numbers in the post and playing great games in the super bowls he potentially makes, then we have a conversation. Montana won 4 Brady went to 10 and won 7….. If bill had a quarterback like Vick or Donovan then I can see his stats without brady better, hopefully he does something at his next post. Good luck to him.
right now, Mahomes is 40% through his career. and he looks like he belongs in the Montana - Brady category of QBs. that might change when he is done 100% with his career, but if you want to have this debate RIGHT NOW, then you have to take his 40% and forecast it into 100% to have a like for like debate.
@@scottadkins918 he would trade away all their best draft picks for shitty picks bc he is the "genius" and eventually the teams would be loaded with talentless pedestrians with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 fall out of the sky lucky draft picks like Brady was.
"What if Andy Reid had Brady for 20 years" its possible Andy too would have nine super bowl appearances, yes. Brady and great coach = nine super bowls great coach without Brady = three super bowls?
@@AsifKhan-hf9zy no if Reed had Brady for that long Brady and Reed would probably have 10 rings...I guarantee Belichick wouldn't have won any superbowls with Pats without Brady just for the simple fact that he would have been fired long ago if Brady never fell into his lap
@@JB-mo1sw Brady did nt "fall into his lap" ha ha ha ha........ what a moronic thing to say ....... Bill DISCOVERED BRADY, when 31 other teams looked right pass him ........ remember, it was Bill who dumped his STAR MULTI MILLION dollar franchise QB Drew Bledsoe in his prime and bet all his horses on a rookie Brady starting 2002 ......... i saw an interview where Bill says that Brady was on the roster in 2000 because BILL saw something in Brady that others missed and everybody in the org thought it was a wasted roster spot ..... but of course hindsight is 20/20 and who knows what the actual truth was back then in 2000 inside the organization regarding Brady
Wildes... What is Belichick's record when Brady is NOT his QB? If you want to argue, best HC/QB combo in history, go for it. That one, is Not Arguable (Yet). But, best HC alone? That one is arguable. What is Andy's record outside of Mahomes, and what is Belichick's outside of Brady. Show those stats. Then, argue Belichick is the goat, and you will lose.
John harbaugh has 1…Doug peterson has 1…Andy Reid 2………….Bill 7…….why is this even a argument 🤦🏾♂️if John wins another ring this year is he in that argument????
The only success as a head coach that Belichick ever put out was Tom Brady he had three other starting quarterbacks not one of them successful. Mac Jones is 29-38, Bernie Kosar while under Belichick was 16-32 and Vinny testaverde was 23-25. Mac Jones may not have been a very good quarterback. But Bernie Kosar prior to Belichick coming in was drafted in 1985 had a starting 500 season in 1985 and then from 1986 to 1989. He had four consecutive winning seasons, one of which in 1987 he was one drive away from defeating John Elway for a spot in the Super Bowl. In 1990 he had a bad season, but then his potential was wasted when Belichick came around. Vinny Testaverde similar story. But Andy Reid had four starting quarterbacks as well as a head coach. But every single one of them was a success. Donovan McNabb was 99-67-1 (one victory away from 100), Patrick Mahomes is 74-22, Alex Smith while under Andy Reid’s coach is 50-26, and Michael Vick while under the coaching of Andy is 30-24. If you add the numbers from all of their quarterbacks, it’s pretty similar. But if you take the numbers from their prime quarterbacks, meaning Brady and Mahomes away from both Belichick and Andy, the difference between them is night and day.
I'm sick of this GOAT "analysis" involving the most successful, recent coach and the second most successful recent coach. It is so ignorant and disrespectful to Lombardi, Halas, Walsh, Shula and other greats. Yes, Belichick has the most SBs, but that isn't the only barometer of greatness. Playing in different eras meant playing at a time where your stars could be injured more frequently, all the luxuries afforded many of the current prima donnas didn't exist, it was more difficult to go out and snag great players from other teams and so forth. Look at the NFC in the 1980s. How ridiculous was it that Walsh won 4 TITLES in a conference that also had the Hogs, the LT-led Giants, and the '85 Bears? Most of the NFC title games WERE the Super Bowl. And Walsh and Montana collected 40% of the SBs during that decade. The point is that our sports pundits and the fan base (in general) has ironically become more ignorant of the past at a time when more information about the past is available to them. Just once I'd like to see a geriatric Bill Parcells saunter into the studio of First Take or First Things First and just beat the crap out of the pundits. Like Jimmy Stewart on the Joe Pesci show.
Careful when talking about best "ever." Belichick and Reid will have more wins but would they be considered better than Halas or Lombardi. The times have changed and so has the game. Going head-head against either of the legends, would they be even close? "Best ever" is over used. Same with quarterbacks. People argue between Brady and Mahomes but in my opinion the best ever would be Johnny U. The records he set were still along the leagues leaders for a few decades after he retired which were set long before quarterbacks were protected as much as they are now.
Wildes is like most pats fans holding onto the past. Living in new England so many callers "can't fire Belichick, he's won 6 superbowls" it's a what have you done lately league and Belichick uses that moto his entire career?
is it fair to say that Billichek was better than Reid the 1st half of their respective careers and now Reid has been better than Billichek the 2nd half of their careers? Im ok w that. But right now its Billichek
Bill is far and away at the top of the mountain. He had about a 20 year reign of dominance in the NFL. Most predictions at the beginning of each year was for the patriots to be in the Super Bowl because of Brady and Belichick. Little things matter also. Bill made important decisions under a lot of stress in the final moments of the game to help win.
not to mentiion the astonishing decision to dump their STUD qb with multi-millionarie contract Drew Beldsoe and retain the basically rookie 6th round Tom Brady as franschise qb after that one good year 2001 ===== how often does that happen ===== that was a stroke of genius on hindsight ===== recognizing right away the genius in what would become the greatest QB of all time ====== bill does not get enough credit for that
@@AsifKhan-hf9zy in hindsight, he likely just did that because Brady was cheaper... He never pivoted off Brady because Kraft wouldn't let him and Brady took pay cuts his entire career but it is well known that Belichick wanted to pivot off Brady for Jimmy G for years
@@nathanroyster1324 whatever pathetic excuses you want to make are all fine ..... but bill belichek worked with TOM BRADY for nineteen years!!! ..... and has six super bowl rings on his fingers to show for it ...... HE COULD have left the patriots if he did nt like Brady, Brady could ve left the patriots if he thought the head coach sucked ...... THEY HAD NINETEEN YEARS to figure that out ...... but they instead WORKED TOGETHER ........ and that is why they have SIX RINGS together .......... duh
@@nathanroyster1324 like, you do realize that nothing was stopping Brady from leaving the patriots and MAKING THE SAME MONEY AND THE SAME RINGS elsewhere starting year 2006 ...... especially since "he was not welcome" by belichek ...... yet he stuck around for another 12 years because?
revisiting this a year later and BB cant get a job, Andy had 3 super bowls and going for 3 straight and is signed through the end of the decade. Lets not forget BB has a losing record without Brady.
@@devourmentoffetus it’s zero. But Andy Reid can actually win football games and win playoff games without Mahomes. BB can’t. Dude got fired from a place he won 6 Super Bowl at within 3 years of losing Brady and then no one wanted to hire him.
@@devourmentoffetusSo is Kyle Shanahan on the hot seat? Should he be fired? He hasn’t won a ring either. If the niners fire him though who do they replace him with. Only one team wins it all. Winning matters. It’s what makes a good coach actually. There are lots of coaches in the league that aren’t winning rings year in and year out but still have jobs because it’s better than not having direction. Every coach in the league would take Andy Reid…. Bill is still waiting
Look at the coaches brady gave multiple headcoach jobs and various other positions theirs 1 i can think of in mike vrabel thats held a head coach every other coach 🔥 and also for brady to have to overcome belichecks bust picks in draft.. Andy reid is a better coach relates to players in a better more respectful way and has always been able to have decent qb play belicheck was unable to change his old ways its a new era now he outta the league
Ok think about this? 20 years from now any sports team and player or coach will be compaired to who? Lakers no longer a dynasty. Pittsburgh no longer a dynasty. Go down the line. The only way anyone could be considered the greatest of All time is if life ended tomorrow. Recognize. Ain't nobody the greatest unless they're God. He has a better track record than anyone on god's green earth. Sheesh. Pathetic conversations.
So many things matter outside of just Super Bowl wins, but if you’re a pats fan you’ll reduce it to that because it is an easy way of just saying no one else is in the discussion. They are important for sure, but there are many factors.
This is pure lunacy. They keep talking about considering who the coaches are without thinking about how great their players are. Coaching great players is a part of being a great coach so please don't be idiots.
It’s gonna be really funny when Mahomes has more rings than Brady and all of sudden Nick is going to say Mahomes is the goat because he has more rings than Brady, when he’s been arguing against count the rings for years for LeBron 😂
Belichick had Kosar & Vinny Testaverde as a Browns coach. Bledsoe, Brady, Casell, Newton, Jones/Zappe....Besides Brady/Bledsoe all the other qb's were either washed up, career back ups, or had 1 to 2 decent seasons and suddenly flamed out. Belichick should of never been fired as coach...but R.K. should of hired a GM 2 seasons ago especially after Josh McDaniels left for the Raiders job. If the patriots had Cousins last season they would of been a 11-6 squad. If with poor offensive line, inconsistent run game, cherry on top horrid qb play.
No ones gonna say it. But all nick is doing is proving that Brady is truly the goat. Man had a coach that was shit without him and mahomes has a goat coach
can you listen to what you are saying. you realize that comment is just stupid. cus BB had TB12 its all TB!2, but cus andy has mahomes, it all andy. lmbo
@@scottadkins918 its not stupid. If you watch the video you will see BB is a losing coach without Brady. Andy Reid is still a winning Coach without Mahomes. That proves Brady has played his whole career with a losing coach and Mahomes gets to play with a great head coach
The way Wiles ended this segment was awesone. Laughed so hard
His feelings got hurt big time, huge homer like all boston sports fans
They’re definitely under valuing his defensive coordinator rings
Yes. Because he had Lawrence frickin Taylor on his defense. And that credit goes to Bill Parcels. Not Belicheck. Taylor didn’t give a shit about Bellicheck’s schemes either. Dude never showed up to meetings on time but when he was on the field he was a monster who made Quarterbacks shit their pants. Keep in mind back then they let defenders play defense and actually hit the Quarterback, unlike today where they flag you for everything. Anyone would win with Lawrence Taylor on Defense back then.
thats why his defensive gameplan is in the HOF then?@@youtubeistryingtocensorme
@@youtubeistryingtocensorme yeah and LT never done sh*t again when BB left.
@@youtubeistryingtocensorme one player on defense does not win you games. there is 11 players on the field. the defensive co-ordinator has to manage that one player playing with the other 10 players, some of whom are pro bowl level themselves its a nightmare, its like playing with aaron rogers, you have to deal with his chit and keep the rest of the offense focused all at the same time.
@@AsifKhan-hf9zy back then it did. Cuz you had to game plan around that dude.
it's a fun discussion but it's not really close. Bill is in a different class. Brou said it best Belichick is way ahead..revisit in 5 years
Right but the question was can he catch him...the answer is yes. It's not "has he passed him now". He has a good chance to, but yeah it'll be some years before we know
Answer is no reason is they play in the afc new qbs are better and lamar burrow maybe Allen and rest of the qbs will have something to say if he was in the nfc they prob get to 5 but Andy will probly coach 5 more maybe 6 years and Kelcy will retire in 2 maybe 3 at most
@@BasicBodThor Aint catching him. Andy is at 2 Super Bowl rings as a head coach (maybe 3 if he wins this one) at age 65. Bill has 6 as a head coach. Unless Andy somehow pulls off a magical run where he wins 3 rings in the next 5 years... I just don't see him reaching Bill. You don't see many guys coaching past age 70, let alone winning championships.
I don't know man. Without Brady Belichick can't do anything. He can't even have winning seasons. Reid led teams to a Super Bowl and 5 championship games and lots of winning seasons prior to having Mahomes.
@@BasicBodThorno cuz he failed for 15 years
“HE LITERALLY HAS EIGHT SUPERBOWL RINGS”
2 as she assistant to bill parcels
And if we count those then Andy Reid has 3 he won one as an assistant in Green Bay
@@bondzo7184 ok so that works out better for BB if you want count andy for 3
ok so 3 is greater than 8, makes more sense now.............
No Im saying It’s 6 to 2 but If bill hete 8 Andy has 3. I dont count the wins as an assistant
Thanks. One of my favorite segments, you’re the only person with it. Appreciate you.
This isn’t even a comparison right now as far as I’m concerned. 6 super bowls vs 2 super bowls.
“Oh, he’s been to 6 conference championship games though!” From 2010-2018 the patriots and bill belicheck went to the afc championship every year. Nine years in a row, they were competing for the afc championship. That’ll never happen again.
There is no logical comparison
Yeah they literally said...if he gets 4 or 5 it will be a discussion...only Wildes was arguing Bill is ahead today for some reason (they all, and I'm sure most ppl agree on that)
"Nine years in a row, they were competing for the afc championship. That’ll never happen again."
it could happen again very easily! if KC makes it to the AFC game this year (one more win), that will be SIX STRAIGHT AFC games for the chiefs, and do it two more times in 2024 and 2025 season and you have EIGHT IN A ROW, close enough
So Bill Russell is the GOAT over MJ?
You can only begin to have this conversation if the chiefs win this 3rd superbowl. I'm a chiefs fan and I completely agree with you.
Mahomes and Reid are 2/3 of the way there. Been to 6 straight. Kind of undermines your point that it will never happen again. Literally happening again while Bill was an active HC in the league while being in the same conference.
'How many byes did we have? Josh you're rehired..., how many byes did we have?'🤣🤣🤣🤣
Counting the byes is a really valid point. Those should basically be considered playoff wins .
Or it needs to be added to the graphic as a legit stat that shows how good the regular season was for the coach.
Lamar Jackson would thank you for saying that!
@Falkon952 that doesn't work because the 2 seed doesn't get a bye anymore. I think just counting them as playoff wins makes more sense.
"You don't have to win championships"
I guess the standard has changed... lol wtf?!?!?
for Nick it has cus he loves bron and thinks 4 is better than 6
Vick doesn't have rings so thts why he said it
I mean , if it really does the bill russell is the goat
@@eMikerismjordan fans think 6 is bogger than 11 ,so yeah , make it make sense ahahhaha
@@bernardobolota604 there were 8-12 teams when Russel won his rings and the Celtics were stacked with HOFers and thats just for starters without adding any of MJs stats or awards
They had this conversation once and Wildes said "any head coach with 2 rings is probably/definitely a hall of fame coach. You can't say it's close between Belichick and Reid when the difference between them is 2 Hall of fame careers."
IMO One of the best things ever said on the show.
The only coaches close to Belichick are Chuck Noll, Bill Walsh, Don Shula, Tom Landry & Joe Gibbs...Andy Reid will be in the running in a few years though
You gotta put Parcells in there. He won wherever he went and was a great talent evaluator. He built the foundation of those early patriot superbowl teams. Give Parcells brady and they don't lose the eagles superbowl.
Aside from Belichick, you have to put Vince Lombardi ahead of those coaches you've listed. He won 5 championships with the Pack (incl. 2 SuperBowls) in 9 seasons
Apparently you have never heard of George Halas and Vince Lombardi
He's already there
Why are we just assuming that Andy Reid should be automatically ahead of Mike Shanahan at this point?
Nick being a homer
Wildes and Nick are like "pinky and the brain".😂😂
I think everybody can agree with nicks statement bill is the goat defensive minded coach and Andy is the goat offensive minded coach
Not true at all.
Who did Andy Reid learn from? Bill Walsh.
@untrillbo how it not true andy is a genius offensive game planner and bills got defensive gameplans in the hall of fame
@jayalvarez7679 guy has over 150 more wins then bill walsh sorry
@@obamacare4811 Andy is definitely not a genius offensive game planner lol. Andy is a great coach but he is also being wildly overrated.
I love this show. It’s the chemistry of Chuck, Shaq, and Kenny. I hope Fox keeps these guys happy.
Belichick was 2-0 against Reid in the postseason. And after like '07 he's never had a Hall of Famer on defense outside of Revis for one year. Was McNabb, T.O., Westbrook srubs?
Clearly Andy had better team to bounce into. BB was given the sucky pats, and browns, if you are looking all around to figure whats this and whats that kinda deal.
@@scottadkins918 Neither of those teams wer great when Andy took them over. Belichick has never elevated a franchise that didn't have TB12 on it
@@scottadkins918 Don't tell Bill Parcells Belichick didn't have a good team when he took control of the Patriots. Parcells said this: "The Patriots were a good team; a good young team when Belichick was choosen as head coach".
@@scottadkins918 The Chiefs were 2-14 the year before Reid got there. Try again..
Isn’t it funny how just a few years ago the GOAT was Brady…now for some BS reason it’s Mahomes….also the GOAT was Gronk, now it’s Kelce….also the GOAT was Belichick, now it’s Reid 🤣🤣 this is just stupid Lmao
Yes like they're forcing the Chiefs down our throats kind of like the WWF forced John Cena down everyone's throat. The Chiefs are the John Cena of the nfl
It's just dumb debates
Stupid af seriously
It’s a what have you done for me lately? Debate.
Bill Walsh is the best head coach of all time. Look at this coaching tree and lasting impact. Teams still use variations of his offense. Bellichik is the greatest coach of all time. There’s a difference between greatest and best.
Mega innivator
Non modern era - Paul Brown
I’d argue the better word for Walsh is impactful or influential, not best.
Whats the difference oh wise one
I don’t understand how he is never mentioned in these talks, everyone’s caught in the moment and “what might happen”
Even bill has talked about Walsh being the best.
Bellichick’s complete failures outside of having Tom Brady has to be taken into account. Reid had a HOF career before he ever met Mahomes
Steve Young said that it took the league 10 years to catch up with the west coast offense. Bill Walsh
Reid is gonna catch him in wins reg and postseasons. He just got to 3 and has a shot to 3peat. It's a lot closer than they thought even at this time
Kevin i hate the NFL but i love your takes. See i am South African and we dont watch your less entertaining football but i watch all your segments. We have the real football here and we are world champs in the sport that eventually became American football. Kevin Bill had those because of Tom. So i need to ask you one question . Will you only read texts from Don anf his kids or will you get to read more of the ones that mean something. Bill won with Tom. He hasn't won one without that dude????
"We have the real football here " ......... "which is basically blacks from the ghettos being forced to play for whites for food and drinks" ............ "now THAT is real football"
Imagine Bill as defensive coordinator, and Reid as offensive coordinator...same team... Let's go
Mike Tomlin head coach Mr never lose with the two best coordinators. Nah the panthers would be in the playoffs lol
Can't really call him Mr Never lose.@@aaroncoleman9312
if bill is DC, then reid will pick Mahomes over Brady in the draft, and we would have only two SB rings and not six..............
The coach of the 58' Giants. Had tom landry as D.C. and some guy named Vince Lombardi as O.C..
They sound crazy. Do you realize how freaking hard it is to win a Lombardi?! Almost EVERYTHING has to go right, health, officiating, bounces of the ball. Mahommes is a beast but talking about winning THREE MORE LOMBARDIS is crazy at this point.
6:46 Wildes giving the same look we all are
Foles best years were under Chip Kelly and Doug Peterson.
Joe Gibbs is the best coach. He won Three Superbowls with three different quarterbacks and three different running backs. Every other coach with multiple Super Bowl wins all did it with the same quarterback
Didn't Reid win a SB in Green Bay as QB coach? Also, Andy could pass him in wins in 6 years with 10 wins per year which isn't saying much given a 17 game schedule and Mahomes.
7:11
Thanks
Its hilarious how Wildes gets riled-up and then composes himself while smirking 🤣
If Reid is the best head coach ever, and Kelce is the best tight end ever, and Tyreek is the most explosive receiver ever, we must start a conversation about…
Well you know who
yeah we must start saying it was all those guys, reid was just riding them onto success. definitely kidding but yeah ppl use that excuse for BB and TB12
@@scottadkins918 I was talking about Mahomes
I've been saying this for awhile. When Reid finally has that inevitable heartattack from the quadruple stacker burgers he slams every evening, we're really going to see how good Mahomes is, and boy if he isn't, this show will be must watch television.
bill hasnt done anything without tom brady. Andy Reid made it to the superbowl with Mcnabb, and even teh AFC championship with Alex Smith
Im with Wildes
“If we wanna just count rings it will be Brady forever” as if that’s not the entire point of being the goat and having eternal greatness.
I wonder if such "analysts" existed having the same stupid discussions when Billichick was winning his. 6 to 2 is crazy comparison. and no, Andy wont ever surpass Bill.
If Mahomes gets 3 more and Andy is litteraly one 1 behind. I definitely think he’s the goat without a doubt
@@Martial300 then your an idiot.
I agree 💯
@@Martial300 no one is talking about if BB goes to a really good team that might just pull away further from Andy.
@scottadkins918 he didn't. And it's 6-3 now.
What about Jimmy?
People jus assuming Andy will live 10 more yrs like bro is a Walrus and like 70. Hes lucky to still be alive at his weight and age. Let alone coaching
andy has lost a good amount of weight recently
@@LuckyAJC He was still like 300lbs for how many yrs. Hes lucky he got a good heart. Enough guys die of heart attacks much sooner
I'm surprised no one mentioned Reid's Green Bay Super Bowl ring
Well apparently you aren’t allowed to include bills two with the giants so why bring up Reid’s
@@calvinhobbes7032
I assumed that someone would mention it sarcastically or something lol
Tho he was just QB coach while Bill was DC
The question is them as head coach. Not as coordinators
the best coaching staff would be Andy Head with bill as his DC. Andy is just better at developing players.
Name any starting QB for Reid who played better on another team. I can't think of any. Every QB had their best years with Reid.
why are rings the single most important thing? the coach just like any player can only do so much. Andy makes every team he coaches for better. the patriots have only gotten worst year after year since brady left. I do think bill is the goat for now but andy definitely doesnt need 6 or 8 to pass him.
I just simply don't understand the argument for Reid. It just isn't close. Bill has him by a country mile, and the offense to defense discussion is a goofy portion.
If “how well the coach did with different QBs” is a such a big factor, then shouldn’t Joe Gibbs be considered the greatest head coach of all time? He won 3 superbowls with 3 QBs (technically 4 since he was constantly swapping between Doug Williams and Jay Schroeder during his 2nd Super Bowl season), none of whom were hall of famers.
Why are they forgetting about the rumor mill of him retiring after this year. Andy might not be coaching next year
andy came out and said he has no plans on going anywhere, he is having too much fun
I like Wildes, but he's full of it this episode.
Great coaching isn't just about championships. Championships require having the players. Winning championships is also largely situational (who did you play?) The reason why Jordan has six and Johnson five and Bird three is part because Johnson and Bird often were facing off in the finals many years. If they, like Jordan I believe, didn't have great competition they both might have had six or more. Likewise, Bud Grant's Minnesota Vikings might have won a SB if they hadn't draw the likes of the 70s Miami and Pittsburgh teams, both all-time greats.
My criteria:
a) Total wins, especially wins with different teams/collection of players/QBs
b) Coaching innovations --- how much did they change the game?
To me, it's hard to beat Don Shula. Then Tom Landry. Turn on the TV, watch football, and you see Shula and Landry's effect on the game on almost every play; that's how much their innovations affected the game. And they both consistently won with completely different teams (i.e., completely different rosters across the board),
After those Bill Walsh (the only knock on him, his greatness all included Joe Montana). Likewise, Vince Lombardi (his tenure in Washington was too brief to see if he could have won with a second team). Paul Brown (but his success was largely the 1950s Browns). Other SB champ coaches, like Jimmy Johnson and Chuck Noll, just did it with one set of great players.
So where does this leave both Reid and Belichick? I would say Reid has done more innovation than Belichick, and has won more consistently with vastly different rosters (Belichick's success only was consistent with TB12). Belichick's coaching innovation appears to be mostly centered on game-planning; at that there's none better, but more of Andy's innovation seems to be copyable than does Belichick's. So, I'd give Reid the nod.
Wilds analogy. If you are 6ft tall, you're tall. What if you're 36 ft tall. The discussion would be one person used a growth hormone to get to 36ft tall. And no one else did. Is there asterisks beside his name.
This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever read.
Whenever you're ring counting you lost the argument.
I’m so confused…Andy Reid has three Super Bowl rings not two ??
Wildes is so wrong on this. Bill has six rings not eight as a head coach
If Kyle can be criticized for blowing the Falcons' 28-3 lead in a SB then Bill can get credit for being DC of a winning SB team.
I wonder if that chair is made out of dog leather.
Who did Bill have as good as Mcnabb and Vick not named Tom? Lol
That means nothing.. 6 is more then 2
Bill went 11-5 with a qb who never took a snap in college
@@jharp08he also missed the playoffs with a QB who was making pro bowls
Now what's going on with Nick's haircut!?
mouse face. you do what you can to hide that with weird haircuts and moustaches and beards.
To not include Bills record as a DC is nuts. Bill is unequivocally the greatest coach in all of sports. 8 championship rings can not be denied
@lucascrane164 You wrotte: "Belichick is the greatest coach in all of sports.".
Are you sure of that?
@@sportsretrospective6759 If you take the entirety of his coaching career, not just head coach, I think the championships and wins speak for themselves. Sure he had one of if not the greatest players in sports, but you can't be great at coaching a team sport without some great players.
@@lucascrane164 Oh sure. You need great players. But for me, the greatest head coach in sports history is Scotty Bowman. I don't know if you watch the NHL.
But Bowman was in the Stanley cup finals in his first season as head coach in 1966-67, and in his last, 35 years later (2001-02). He's so far ahead of everyone else. He won 9 Stanley Cups (NHL record), and made the finals 13 times (NHL record).
But the most important thing about Bowman, he changed! In the beginning, he was like Belichick. He was a dictator. But then, he changed. He was willing to adapt his coaching style to the new NHL in the 90s, and 2000s.
shocking Nick saying with 4 Sb he has a chance Reid will catch him in wins but thats it
Andy Reid has the worst clock management.
They both have arguably the greatest quarterback ever…
Mahomes is great but he is not in the debate, he’s not even above Montana so how can you put him in the same realm as brady, if he can do it consistently for 20 years, putting up great numbers in the post and playing great games in the super bowls he potentially makes, then we have a conversation.
Montana won 4
Brady went to 10 and won 7…..
If bill had a quarterback like Vick or Donovan then I can see his stats without brady better, hopefully he does something at his next post. Good luck to him.
exactly, andy always had better team/qb to work with. if they are going to talk, talk about the whole ordeal.
right now, Mahomes is 40% through his career.
and he looks like he belongs in the Montana - Brady category of QBs.
that might change when he is done 100% with his career, but if you want to have this debate RIGHT NOW, then you have to take his 40% and forecast it into 100% to have a like for like debate.
I think brady proved it wasnt all bill and that hurts his argument. Need to see if mahomes can win without andy.
Wildes is right… At the moment there is no debate
What if Andy Reid had Brady for 20 years
What if BB had Greenbay or Eagles to work with?
@@scottadkins918 he would trade away all their best draft picks for shitty picks bc he is the "genius" and eventually the teams would be loaded with talentless pedestrians with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 fall out of the sky lucky draft picks like Brady was.
"What if Andy Reid had Brady for 20 years"
its possible Andy too would have nine super bowl appearances, yes.
Brady and great coach = nine super bowls
great coach without Brady = three super bowls?
@@AsifKhan-hf9zy no if Reed had Brady for that long Brady and Reed would probably have 10 rings...I guarantee Belichick wouldn't have won any superbowls with Pats without Brady just for the simple fact that he would have been fired long ago if Brady never fell into his lap
@@JB-mo1sw Brady did nt "fall into his lap" ha ha ha ha........ what a moronic thing to say ....... Bill DISCOVERED BRADY, when 31 other teams looked right pass him ........ remember, it was Bill who dumped his STAR MULTI MILLION dollar franchise QB Drew Bledsoe in his prime and bet all his horses on a rookie Brady starting 2002 ......... i saw an interview where Bill says that Brady was on the roster in 2000 because BILL saw something in Brady that others missed and everybody in the org thought it was a wasted roster spot ..... but of course hindsight is 20/20 and who knows what the actual truth was back then in 2000 inside the organization regarding Brady
We needed Josh off waivers
"where IS my glasses?" and dude dandy wants to be taken seriously???
*5 SB appearances
* 3 SB Titles now for Reid.
(7•5•24)
Wildes... What is Belichick's record when Brady is NOT his QB? If you want to argue, best HC/QB combo in history, go for it. That one, is Not Arguable (Yet). But, best HC alone? That one is arguable. What is Andy's record outside of Mahomes, and what is Belichick's outside of Brady. Show those stats. Then, argue Belichick is the goat, and you will lose.
John harbaugh has 1…Doug peterson has 1…Andy Reid 2………….Bill 7…….why is this even a argument 🤦🏾♂️if John wins another ring this year is he in that argument????
The only success as a head coach that Belichick ever put out was Tom Brady he had three other starting quarterbacks not one of them successful. Mac Jones is 29-38, Bernie Kosar while under Belichick was 16-32 and Vinny testaverde was 23-25. Mac Jones may not have been a very good quarterback. But Bernie Kosar prior to Belichick coming in was drafted in 1985 had a starting 500 season in 1985 and then from 1986 to 1989. He had four consecutive winning seasons, one of which in 1987 he was one drive away from defeating John Elway for a spot in the Super Bowl. In 1990 he had a bad season, but then his potential was wasted when Belichick came around. Vinny Testaverde similar story.
But Andy Reid had four starting quarterbacks as well as a head coach. But every single one of them was a success. Donovan McNabb was 99-67-1 (one victory away from 100), Patrick Mahomes is 74-22, Alex Smith while under Andy Reid’s coach is 50-26, and Michael Vick while under the coaching of Andy is 30-24.
If you add the numbers from all of their quarterbacks, it’s pretty similar. But if you take the numbers from their prime quarterbacks, meaning Brady and Mahomes away from both Belichick and Andy, the difference between them is night and day.
Yogi Berra has 10 World Series rings. Just saying.
Yogi Bhajan had 10 Rolls Royces. Just saying.
How are they not noticing that Andy won 3x, not twice, and might be winning his 4th this year. It is much closer than Wildes realizes 😂
Check the date… I was thinking things looked off too for a bit
@ The algorithm strikes again! Haha, thanks!
Andy has 3 rings with KC 1 with GB as an assistant
I'm sick of this GOAT "analysis" involving the most successful, recent coach and the second most successful recent coach. It is so ignorant and disrespectful to Lombardi, Halas, Walsh, Shula and other greats. Yes, Belichick has the most SBs, but that isn't the only barometer of greatness. Playing in different eras meant playing at a time where your stars could be injured more frequently, all the luxuries afforded many of the current prima donnas didn't exist, it was more difficult to go out and snag great players from other teams and so forth.
Look at the NFC in the 1980s. How ridiculous was it that Walsh won 4 TITLES in a conference that also had the Hogs, the LT-led Giants, and the '85 Bears? Most of the NFC title games WERE the Super Bowl. And Walsh and Montana collected 40% of the SBs during that decade.
The point is that our sports pundits and the fan base (in general) has ironically become more ignorant of the past at a time when more information about the past is available to them. Just once I'd like to see a geriatric Bill Parcells saunter into the studio of First Take or First Things First and just beat the crap out of the pundits. Like Jimmy Stewart on the Joe Pesci show.
Careful when talking about best "ever." Belichick and Reid will have more wins but would they be considered better than Halas or Lombardi. The times have changed and so has the game. Going head-head against either of the legends, would they be even close? "Best ever" is over used. Same with quarterbacks. People argue between Brady and Mahomes but in my opinion the best ever would be Johnny U. The records he set were still along the leagues leaders for a few decades after he retired which were set long before quarterbacks were protected as much as they are now.
Wildes is like most pats fans holding onto the past. Living in new England so many callers "can't fire Belichick, he's won 6 superbowls" it's a what have you done lately league and Belichick uses that moto his entire career?
when you talk greatess of all time its not about what have you done lately lmao
@@ItsLaforgesmh it’s crazy
is it fair to say that Billichek was better than Reid the 1st half of their respective careers and now Reid has been better than Billichek the 2nd half of their careers? Im ok w that. But right now its Billichek
Bill is far and away at the top of the mountain. He had about a 20 year reign of dominance in the NFL. Most predictions at the beginning of each year was for the patriots to be in the Super Bowl because of Brady and Belichick. Little things matter also. Bill made important decisions under a lot of stress in the final moments of the game to help win.
not to mentiion the astonishing decision to dump their STUD qb with multi-millionarie contract Drew Beldsoe and retain the basically rookie 6th round Tom Brady as franschise qb after that one good year 2001 ===== how often does that happen ===== that was a stroke of genius on hindsight ===== recognizing right away the genius in what would become the greatest QB of all time ====== bill does not get enough credit for that
Reid, the picture of health, will be lucky to make it to 2025
@@AsifKhan-hf9zy in hindsight, he likely just did that because Brady was cheaper... He never pivoted off Brady because Kraft wouldn't let him and Brady took pay cuts his entire career but it is well known that Belichick wanted to pivot off Brady for Jimmy G for years
@@nathanroyster1324 whatever pathetic excuses you want to make are all fine ..... but bill belichek worked with TOM BRADY for nineteen years!!! ..... and has six super bowl rings on his fingers to show for it ...... HE COULD have left the patriots if he did nt like Brady, Brady could ve left the patriots if he thought the head coach sucked ...... THEY HAD NINETEEN YEARS to figure that out ...... but they instead WORKED TOGETHER ........ and that is why they have SIX RINGS together .......... duh
@@nathanroyster1324 like, you do realize that nothing was stopping Brady from leaving the patriots and MAKING THE SAME MONEY AND THE SAME RINGS elsewhere starting year 2006 ...... especially since "he was not welcome" by belichek ...... yet he stuck around for another 12 years because?
revisiting this a year later and BB cant get a job, Andy had 3 super bowls and going for 3 straight and is signed through the end of the decade. Lets not forget BB has a losing record without Brady.
Whats Reids ring count without Mahomes? Go away.
@@devourmentoffetus it’s zero. But Andy Reid can actually win football games and win playoff games without Mahomes. BB can’t. Dude got fired from a place he won 6 Super Bowl at within 3 years of losing Brady and then no one wanted to hire him.
@@lars8319 cool, all that still got him fired from his last job. Winning games only goes so far.
@@devourmentoffetusSo is Kyle Shanahan on the hot seat? Should he be fired? He hasn’t won a ring either. If the niners fire him though who do they replace him with. Only one team wins it all. Winning matters. It’s what makes a good coach actually. There are lots of coaches in the league that aren’t winning rings year in and year out but still have jobs because it’s better than not having direction. Every coach in the league would take Andy Reid…. Bill is still waiting
@@dylangraeve5326 You're right, Bill is still waiting for them to catch up to him in rings. Enjoy your desperate cope.
Reid has done more with less...I'm a KC fan since 1990. That's all I know
Walsh was ready to bash some skulls in lol
Look at the coaches brady gave multiple headcoach jobs and various other positions theirs 1 i can think of in mike vrabel thats held a head coach every other coach 🔥 and also for brady to have to overcome belichecks bust picks in draft.. Andy reid is a better coach relates to players in a better more respectful way and has always been able to have decent qb play belicheck was unable to change his old ways its a new era now he outta the league
He made mcnabb look like a probowler. He's a helluva coach.
Ok think about this?
20 years from now any sports team and player or coach will be compaired to who?
Lakers no longer a dynasty.
Pittsburgh no longer a dynasty.
Go down the line.
The only way anyone could be considered the greatest of
All time is if life ended tomorrow.
Recognize.
Ain't nobody the greatest unless they're God. He has a better track record than anyone on god's green earth.
Sheesh.
Pathetic conversations.
Why is Reid definitely ahead of Bill Walsh?
Bill already ended arguments between Andy Reid. Bill beat Andy in superbowl. There is no debate.
So many things matter outside of just Super Bowl wins, but if you’re a pats fan you’ll reduce it to that because it is an easy way of just saying no one else is in the discussion. They are important for sure, but there are many factors.
everybody starts speaking french about their favorite team. Nick is a chief apparently
Reid is already a better coach lol Bellicheck got laughed out of the league the moment his star QB was gone
This is pure lunacy. They keep talking about considering who the coaches are without thinking about how great their players are. Coaching great players is a part of being a great coach so please don't be idiots.
Andy Reid will be long retired or past away if he doesn't lose weight long before he catches Belicheck.
It’s gonna be really funny when Mahomes has more rings than Brady and all of sudden Nick is going to say Mahomes is the goat because he has more rings than Brady, when he’s been arguing against count the rings for years for LeBron 😂
You mean the same Andy Reid who can’t coach his offense to line up on sides?
Belichick had Kosar & Vinny Testaverde as a Browns coach. Bledsoe, Brady, Casell, Newton, Jones/Zappe....Besides Brady/Bledsoe all the other qb's were either washed up, career back ups, or had 1 to 2 decent seasons and suddenly flamed out. Belichick should of never been fired as coach...but R.K. should of hired a GM 2 seasons ago especially after Josh McDaniels left for the Raiders job. If the patriots had Cousins last season they would of been a 11-6 squad. If with poor offensive line, inconsistent run game, cherry on top horrid qb play.
Bill also beat Andy in a Super Bowl and in the afc championship game.
No ones gonna say it. But all nick is doing is proving that Brady is truly the goat. Man had a coach that was shit without him and mahomes has a goat coach
can you listen to what you are saying. you realize that comment is just stupid. cus BB had TB12 its all TB!2, but cus andy has mahomes, it all andy. lmbo
@@scottadkins918 its not stupid. If you watch the video you will see BB is a losing coach without Brady. Andy Reid is still a winning Coach without Mahomes. That proves Brady has played his whole career with a losing coach and Mahomes gets to play with a great head coach
@@DMcnabb5You know ball
it's not even close right now.
I think the d coordinator counts 😂😂😂
Wilde's attempt at jinxing Mahomes & Chiefs by jumping on KC,s bandwagon last Season.
Lol..now? Reid has 3 and counting....
Look at the quarterbacks Andy Reid had
Andy Reid never recorded people’s Practices. This is worst then steroids in the MLB hall of fame debate. *Bill Belicheat.
Get back on the short bus kid. You still have a lit of learning to do.
I’m saying Andy Reid is Greater
Coaching tree shouldn't come into play. Strictly them as head coaches
its like saying hit ler's father gets credit for what hit ler did.
Some players just taken to many hits.. nuff said 😊