I WASN'T expecting this... Dungeons & Dragons REVIEW
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 бер 2023
- If you like the content and want to support the channel, you're welcome to do so through Utreon, Subscribe Star or Patreon:
utreon.com/c/knightswatch
www.subscribestar.com/shadive...
/ shadbrooks
Check out Shad's other channels:
SHADIVERSITY: / shadmbrooks
THE SHADLANDS: / @theshadlands1142
Tyranth's Channel:
/ @tyranth22
Nathan's Channel:
/ channel
Chainmail print hoodie:
shadiversity.creator-spring.c...
Awesome Shirts and chainmail print clothing: teespring.com/en-GB/stores/sh...
Shad's novel, Shadow of the Conqueror Audio Book affiliate links:
US: www.audible.com/shadbrooks
UK: www.audible.co.uk/shadbrooks
CA: www.audible.ca/shadbrooks
AU: www.audible.com.au/shadbrooks
Ebook, Paperback and Hardcover available from most major book retailers, here are a few of the main ones:
Amazon affiliate link (be sure to navigate to your country's amazon site):
amzn.to/2XErUaR
Barnes and Noble:
www.barnesandnoble.com/w/shad...
Kobo:
www.kobo.com/au/en/ebook/shad...
Community run discord server: / discord
Shad's official website: www.shadmbrooks.com/ - Розваги
If my memory is correct, he was a sorcerer. His magic would literally be powered by his charisma instead of intelligence so it kinda makes sense that the more confident he got the stronger his magic got.
He's also got wild magic which is also why is magic was random and he had no confidence.
You are both correct
I said the same thing
totaly right he was a wildmagic Sorcerer. And that was nice they showed the wild magic sheet through this small wheel. was realy a funny way
@@kanafleuret8420 exactly that clockwork thing on his hip was his spell focus, and he turned it each time he cast a spell of significant power. I loved how they showed that he was a Wild Magic Sorcerer, even though in the vid they keep triggering me every time they say wizard lmao!
About Edgin (Chris Pine's bard character) using a lute for a weapon... The official character sheet for Edgin (available on D&D Beyond) says the instrument isn't an ordinary lute: "Reinforced Lute. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8 + 2) bludgeoning damage plus 11 (2d10) thunder damage." Edgin also does have a sword ["Shortsword. Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d6 + 3) piercing damage plus 11 (2d10) thunder damage."] but I personally find using the lute more interesting.
Chris Pine not using a weapon actually felt natural to me:
"It's your turn, bard. The final enemy has 1 HP left, and it goes right after you..."
"I inspire courage"
*Rest of table seethes with rage*
But he never use the bard abilities, he neves use magic, which a bard rocks at, or use miracles, which he could also do. And never use a weapon, so he felt useless to me in a combat, even if the story spin around him.
Exactly he’s a bard damnit! Not a paladin!
@@mytotim8978 he was useless in combat he was the leader he made the plans.
@@SolitaryLark Even Hannibal in Team A is capable in combat, he was a spy, a warrior of a sacred order who defeat many powerful enemies. But somehow, with the most epic backstory from the group, he remain like the most useless of them all.
@@mytotim8978he inspired the other members. His pep talks with Simon were kind of like that.
I disagree with some of Shad's criticisms about the movie's storytelling. He mentioned that he felt the Red Wizard needed a more compelling reason for putting together such an elaborate plot and that there had to be an easier way to gather a large number of people. However, I disagree. Neverwinter is a really large city and it's intimated that more or less the entire city had congregated together to watch the games. Similarly, he critiqued that he had expected the cloud from her spell would have enveloped the entire city and that he was surprised that the spell had such a limited range. He felt that the movie could have narrated some sort of justification. However, I feel that wasn't needed as it had already previously been shown (when her master cast it) that the spell only worked within a relatively limited range rather than cover an entire city. In this case, the movie went with the approach of "show" rather than "tell", which is normally a good approach.
In fact, in the flashback scene they show other wizards who were working with Szass Tam holding back people from running away from the cloud, forcing them to stay within its range. So they *did* actually show that it had a limited range.
Them not running away when it appeared seemed a bit questionable at first, but I justified it as something they might have thought was simply a part of the spectacle of the games.
Yeah, if it could cover entire cities, why would they bother gathering people into one place?
you tell em
Especially since the Wizards of Thay are basically infamous for convoluted and excessively moustache-twirling evil plots. XD
The fat dragon is a real character in the DnD universe. His name is Themburchud. He provides fire for all the forges in an underground Dwarven city.
obviously he's winning.
Evidently provided. Im glad he got out of Gracklestugh
I mean, his name is Themberchaud, but I like your version better!
I was legit scared when I saw this thing. Pretty much dark souls ptsd XD Like a dragon must be quiet dangerous if it's able to become this fat Oo
@@pingienator Hot Embers?
I was honestly surprised how faithful the aspects of DnD were treated. From magic spells, locations to monsters it was all accurate.
Even the paladin was handled well. In game the paladin can't go against their oath so having him refuse to help them rob was done well.
Also DMPC go brrrrr.
I actually loved how the handled the portal staff as it felt like a DnDism. It very much felt like the players screwed up what the DM had planned and the DM just goes “oh the sorcerer realizes the sentimental walking stick is a portal staff”
I know I loved that! It’s one of the points that made it feel like a DnD game!
Yeah they messed up the plan and the DM lets them do a saving through, hence the Druid says "Nice save"
I also felt that the idea with portaling the portrait was totally a cheesy player workaround to shortcut an otherwise difficult and elaborate encounter. One of those things you spend three hours planning and the players go "Yo, actually, can we portal into the cart with this thing and just set this up?" and they nat 20 their checks for shenanigans. Lmao.
@@SwitchBladeEVO right, GM gave them an item, ooh it’s not to powerful and my players won’t break the game, shenanigans! Lol
It was definitely a DM ex machina
I have to admit the staff bit to me felt very much like one of those moments in the campaign where players completely demolish your careful plans as a GM and you need to go "ok . . . random deus ex machina because you just shot the guy who was your only lead on the slums beheader"
Or the DM gave them the staff a while ago and the player use it in op ways. That one of the common story type from table top RPG.
Another reviewer positited it and in an interview with the directors they essentially subtly confirm it, that the paladin is actually an NPC controlled by the DM and he is helping out the party when they are overmatched. Kinda explains his straight walk when he leaves them on the beach.
With that information in mind, I changed my mind about the deus ex machina staff. The DM has set up this elaborate trap on the bridge but also a way for the party to solve it with the info from the NPC but one PC completely bungles it and now the DM needs to provide a way for the party to progress but wasn't ready for it to go to shit so he has to improvise something. So the DM says "BTW, you remember that pretty bauble you picked up earlier, one of you recognizes that it is a blah, blah, blah." Realizing all this makes me like the movie even more.
That’s kinda the take I got from that too.
Yeah it made it feel like a actual DnD game! 😂
And it’s only 500ft and a very visible portal the Party shouldn’t be able to abuse this. 😂😅
And then GM just looks in disbelief, that his party uses that one stupid item ever since, to pull any stupid and mind boggling plan. It generally felt like something done by an actual DnD party.
@@lewycraft they abused that portal so hard the dm had to try and scuff their attempts. The painting falling flat for example lol
Yea, DM was like "Simon, you seem to have noticed something amongst the random things Holga is carrying; Roll for Arcana"
It's why Doric says "Nice save".
38:19 I loved the paladin despite the shooting sword. But also you're missing the fact the he was essentially an NPC while the other four was the actual party.
Yea the pally came off as the GM NPC to get the party where they needed to go and give the helping hand, but the GM doesn’t want them sticking around cause they would otherwise just make the whole thing trivial.
Like how they didn’t use greater smite.
And then walked off like a Skyrim NPC 😂
Exactly! The Paladin was the super powerful, very knowledgeable and extremely "eloquent" GM NPC 😂 We GMs create them from time to time to feel great 😉 It even felt like he was partially speaking in boxed texts 🤣
@@aarndal90 it’s what made it hillarious when Simon purposely triggered the bridge, and why all of a sudden this random stick the group picked up turned out to be the magical tool that they just so happened to need right then.
It completely had the feel of the group taking the GM’s plan and throwing it out the window. And I loved it.
@@thejohnquixote I did catch how In that whole scene, they kept the pally still in shot, still walking off in a straight line.
A few things to add here, they did establish that there is a limit to the red fog spell, quite blatantly in the scene with the paladin as a kid. The sorceror has to fight with himself to master his magic because unlike wizards and other magic casters, sorcerors magic comes completely from within them, also he was a wild magic sorceror which makes it even more difficult to master. They DO in fact show (sorta) holga getting stabbed. When they're fighting she goes up to hit the wizard lady and you hear a stabbing noise when she's swinging at holga, it was pretty distinct. And lastly I wanna say that gathering the people the way they did makes a lot of sense actually. It's one of if not the largest city in faerun and the event would bring (as they showed and mentioned) people from all around, not to mention the even better effect of putting all the adventurers in the arena right where they'll be trapped. They can't interfere AND they'll be the first to turn undead from the spell, it's an easy win win for the wizard
If you watch that scene by frame you can see Holga getting stabbed.
She falls to the side, never re-joining the fight.
It was kind of supposed to be a surprise.
Also considering who played Holga character we were supposed to genuinely concerned for her )
This is a super common trait, especially amongst talented people in many fields, where they have self doubt or imposter syndrome. They think that they are not good enough to fulfill the expectations put on them. I can see a really good dnd character made on this trait.
This is also the case for descendants of a prominent person in that field; which also applies to Simon / the Sorcerer, since it's said and shown numerous times that he is a descendant of a famous sorcerer.
Sorcerer is also based on Charisma stats
The less confident you are
The less powerful you are as sorcerer
@evilwelshman it’s worse. He is a descendent of the most powerful living wizard (when alive) of the realms (I say that cause there are undead wizards with limitless potential)
I think Shad said it best at one of his videos, Magic can only be satisfying as aplot element resolution if you explain it's limitations and obeys it's own rules in the story.
Which is just cribbing from Brandon Sanderson
@@5quepasa well, I also agree and I can't even remember where I hear it from, so don't quote me on that.
The magic was portrayed well in this film. I think it's the most entertaining portrayal I've seen on screen, especially considering how much of it there was.
They showcased a lot of different spells, but it never got tiring watching their different effects.
Tyranth: the Fat dragon IS canon. His name is Themberchaud, and he grew fat because he was lighting the forges for some dwarves, and they fed him *very* well to keep him complacent. He shows up in the Underdark adventure Out of the Abyss.
Should've been named Thember-CHONK! 😁😁
Strange that in no part of Out of the abyss it mentions that he is fat.. just inexperienced and becoming a treat.
@@Cassiobl
"The dragon chuckles at his own wit. His massive body gives the distinct impression that he is overweight, indicating eating habits that don't bode well."
From the boxed text introducing him.
Also, his artwork clearly depicts him as chonky.
@@TheodoreMinick yeah but have you thought about ignoring facts for unneeded rage?
And there I was thinking he just didn't get enough exercise and flying hours in these caves.
What a relief. It's not like I take joy in expecting new things to suck.
Ehhh I sometimes do, but I’m a die hard dnd fan so I was really hoping it would be good . If the next rings of power season is better but not good , I’d actually be disappointed. It’s fun to make fun of .
I absolutely take joy in watching Shad explain how torturous a movie was to get through in detail as I never watch the film.
Fans declare that the books or source material is always better than the live action. It is better to use your imagination than to have some overpaid half wit who loves being over the top and overcompensating just to entertain. The best outcome is those involved have the same relationship you have with the source material make or even help make the film/game.
Then why would you give any money to Hasbro?
Its funny they complain about men being made fun of and yet its in full force in this film. even the dum trope of a man needing a w0man to make him better LMFAO
"Every time Chris Pine's character tried something elaborate, it went wrong" is the classic RPG trope of "great roleplay, terrible roll play."
I suffer from it all the time. 😐
Also, if a protagonist automatically succeeded at everything just for being the protagonist, then
1. the movie would be 5 minutes long,
2. said protagonist would be a Mary-Sue type character.
The Paladin was an NPC. He couldn't stay. He was several levels higher than the group. He made several fights trivial. And the only reason we learned his backstory was because it tied into the bad guys' plot. If Zenk didn't tell them about how Tam took power in Thay, and gave Edgin the book with the story in it, they wouldn't know what was going on and everyone would have died.
Totally an NPC , even when he goes on his way, he goes in a rect line pasing over things, like in early (and some new) games .
@@ivanelgharbi5861 Also a good ref to the "lawful good" archetype. Wherever he goes, he goes STRAIGHT xD
I thought he was more a DMPC. Like it was the DM showing off his super cool bad ass paladin. 😂
On the Hither Tither Staff, I think that was actually a good set up/ pay off moment. They 'could' have just walked across the bridge and the scene not existed, but it was trapped, trap got triggered, and the staff was set up for its use later in the final heist.
That was probably one of my favorite scenes
“How do we Cross the Bridge”
Pally: “it’s simple….” *proceeds to explain in great detail anything other than a simple task*
Wizard: *purposefully triggers the trap to shut the pally up* “….sorry….”
While crossing you must always move forward, however you may only step on odd numbered stones. Then every fifth step must be a lateral movement, left or right it matters not so long as crossers remain equidistant. Continue this cycle until you reach the half way point, after which you must only step on even numbered stones and the lateral movement comes every fourth ste-
*crumbles*
Simon: Oh sorry, didn’t realize the bridge technically started here.
It also feel like the DM "fixing" the players screwing up the campaign by giving them a way out so the story can continue. The whole film has the tone of a bunch of friends playing D&D
@@hardromeo436 and that’s why it was great
@@starcrafsf7101 agreed
I loved the use of Chekov's gun. In every instance the camera panned to something it came up later in the film
The sorcerer with low self esteem makes sense, sorcerers are charisma based.
I think the whole revival issue was brought up by the paladin. He basically said to Chris Pine's character, "the after life is another journey for the dead. Do you really want to force your long dead wife back when she has her own adventure?" Paraphrasing, of course. But that was the jist of things.
I thought the paladin was implying that Edgin's wife, as a good and honest person, was likely now enjoying her afterlife in the Heavenly planes. Ripping her soul away from this back to the mortal plane might not be what she wants. (That's why souls in D&D can refuse to be resurrected.)
They bring up that Clerics can heal the dead but it’s the Red Wizard Blade that prevents it. The Tablet of Reawakening is kind of useless if you’re a powerful cleric or have a powerful cleric but powerful clerics are rare in and of themselves. I think that the time where the other adventuring parties are encountered is when they’re in the arena.
I'd like to point out that Simon and Safina (?) are two different kinds of magic users. Safina is a wizard, whose strongest trait should be Intelligence. Simon is a sorcerer, their strongest trait is Charisma. Also, a wizard's power comes from studying magic, whereas a sorcerer's power comes from their bloodline, or is just innate raw, wild magic. They are basically born with it. Simon appears to still be in the process of mastering his powers and/or himself. Safina, on the other hand, is probably very old already, and has had a lot of time to study magic.
forge mentions she was 300 years old at one point. also since sorcerers use charisma, the fact he didn't have much confidence kinda sells why he was bad at magic. once he gained confidence, he suddenly had more power and control over his wild magic. cause his charisma increased.
Holga took the staff in the first place because it was the right size for Merriman. And it was a good walking stick for a small person. She went to Merriman's to reconnect. "Getting her stuff" was a pretense to cover her feelings. She noticed he still had the staff that she gave him and he said he doesn't really use it anymore because his new gal isn't much for strolling. He offered it back to her. That's why she had it. Obviously she stole it on a job with Edgin and thought it looked nice and was the right size for Merriman. Holga has a history of doing this as seen with the amulet she gives Kira. Inadvertently stealing magic items and giving them to the ones she loves.
I'm just imagining a lot of failed rolls, but the pc being like, "I dunno, so and so might like this so I'll keep it."
I will say that in defense of Ed not using a sword, it is established that he doesn't want to hurt anyone. It's his moral code, he might not feel confident enough with his sword skills to not kill anyone accidentally
Edit: the fat dragon is canon... : D
I compared him to a DM who wants to play all the game systems where the story teller doesn't roll any dice. I don't think he's cowardly at all, as much as a realist who is happy to use other people. That seems like a very realistic character.
And what's more D&D than a character saying, can I have my "x" reinforced for melee? 'cuz how many rangers want to be able to just club someone with their now for a moment without it breaking?
More than a sword, I was wondering why the bard used no magic at all.
@@brucebrown2241 nah man, I saw that dude cast charm person, friend's, vicious mockery, and my favorite spell, DISTRACTION!
@@brucebrown2241 One of the theories is that he is actually a Fighter with a Lute, who pretends to be a Bard and is convincing enough with his high charisma. Thus, he literally has no ability to use cantrips, even
@@jm00789 He never casted vicious mockery.
The limited range of the zombie spell was implied in the original casting of the spell. The Thayan necromancers put up barriers to prevent the victims from escaping the range of the spell.
The Paladin was essentially the NPC that helps them with a particular quest, and then leaves.
DMPC
Also, the DM's excuses to save PCs from some bad luck: did everything 'right' but screwed by awful rolls.
During the backstory by Xenk, he crossed a line on the ground that the red death cloud stopped at. I assumed this was to show a range for the spell, which meant it being contained to the stadium was at least set up beforehand.
As a long time player, that was very on brand for a bard. He is the face man, that’s his skill. I don’t feel like he was emasculated
Yeah but then you cant have a bunch of neckbeards cry about "men being opressed".
The film makers said they deliberately did that, though so the fact that it didn't bother you enough to noticed doesn't mean it wasn't there.
The lute is enchanted/reinforced, they released the official statblocks for the characters
It's also a bards weapon, they are not standard instruments
1:06:36 The fat Dragon is actually an existing character within the lore, his name is Themberchaud and you can find him most notably in the "Out of the Abyss" module, basically he was raised in the Duergar city of Gracklstugh and served the city by heating their forges with his breath. The reason he is so fat is because he had become complacent with the Duergar constantly feeding him and donating to his horde he did not need to go out and hunt for himself. In the module I believe he is supposed to be trapped in Gracklstugh for one reason or another so I have no idea what he is doing outside of Gracklstugh in the movie?
Maybe he ate his way out?
They mentioned in a line briefly as he was coming out of his hole that "he must have found a new nest".
There's also tons of bones as they make their way up to him, seems like there's an untold story there!
Could be Demogorgon wrecked Gracklstugh from the events of that module. I think I remember the PCs have the chance to save it, but it's not a mandatory location to the plot so it can be skipped. If the city was sacked by demons, Themberchad probably would have moved on.
He is there because he ate his old lair
@@darlhiatt8136 Also, the Underdark city they are in is clearly a city that was once inhabited by Deep Gnomes (Svirfneblin) or Deep Dwarves (Duergar), as you can see stone statues of them lining a road that loads up to the forges. Plus the overcomplicated trap on the bridge and the mechanical thing the paladin hid the helmet in are typical for their love for intricate mechanics. And given the mass of skeletons lying around, Themberchaud may have moved to this new Duergar city expecting to be fed again, only to get angry and eat the inhabitants when they attacked him instead.
Im actually glad you guys enjoyed the movie. In a time where I want to hate things because the world sucks, Im glad there are some things that are still enjoyable.
Running away is a grand tradition in old school D&D
Used to have a player who would always want to "hold them off!" and get his characters killed when everyone, including him, could have just escaped.
Actually about that final fight they were all using existing spells from D&D: Meteor Swarm, Magic Missile, Chill Touch(?), Earthen Grasp, Counterspell, etc. As someone who played a Sorcerer it was absolutely joyous to see these spells being used.
Additionally, Simon the sorcerer uses *Wild Magic*, which is ironic since he believes he cannot cast powerful magic; Wild Magic is random so if anything he's merely had bad luck because Wild Magic can do absolutely absurd things if you roll just right.
I just wish they'd included a post-credits scene showing the cartoon team winning (and possibly even opening a gate back home as their prize).
That post-credits would have been fun, or the cartoon guys asking the final question to the dead guy. 😹
So, the Wizard was controlled by a new player, and Chris Pine was the guy who never rolls over a 10.
.. who hands out bardic inspiration like candy to their party. Chad support member
I think the druid is meant to be the new player
Paladin is a DM PC. You can see it in how he reacts to the wizard setting off the bridge trap
@@thebaron2277 who an existing player is dating and brought in.
sorcerer*
They did mention the limited range even of the original zombie army spell, but didn't make it clear exactly how limited it was, because the camera angles and the smoke made it unclear the size. But the paladin guy was there when the spell was cast and escaped the radius, it just hit most people because they were gathered in a close area, similar to the arena. So I think that's largely covered.
This seems like further proof to me that the actors and creators of these movies need to learn when to keep their mouth shut. They keep coming out in these interviews and saying whatever comes in their head at the time, and deliberately insulting the fans, for no other reason than their own ego. If they had just gotten around to saying “we were trying for more humor with this character” instead of “we love emasculating men” then we wouldn’t have this particular controversy at all.
Yep. I just can't in good conscious support that. Those were deliberate words chosen. If not, these people need to be pulled aside by veterans and told how to market better because they need it. I don't know where in their minds they thought using that word would generate ANY kind of good will.
Especially considering the character they are talking about is a Bard. Bards are rarely the "gigachad" of the group and are almost exclusively a support character. I feel like they were saying he is emasculated because he was that support role. Any player will tell you that a good support player is a godsend.
@@SilentCartagrapher i used to love playing tank characters in games, until i learned how fun and complex support roles are!
The stuff, that the movie was woke was a reason, that i had low expectation.
It is true, that the women are the tuff ones and the guys the "weak" one. But, it fit for the story.
The guys had room to grow. The women to the other hand had as good as no personality. Except of beeing the fighters.
If people didn't take every comment made from such a defensive position and evaluated it on its own merits then there would be a lot less pre-rage at these things.
It's a valid comment to make and a funny prospect if you aren't colouring it with a presumption that it's coming from a political place.
If you look at the writers previous work the context for the intent was absolutely there.
The staff scene was one of those moments the DM has an elaborate plan for a puzzle that the players instantly break so they improvise a solution that goes on to have consequences later since it can be kept and used again.
Paladin was clearly reference for classic overpowered DM self insert character, with uber cinematic fight scene to boot. Staff retroactively became a magic device because players had no way to continue and DM just said "f it" your walking stick can do the thing that you need to do - so the game can move on. A lot of inside jokes that you only notice if you have played D&D.
The intentional "NPC energy" from the Paladin was hilarious to me
Yes the OP guest character lmao
I remember the moment the barbarian got stabbed, everyone was surrounding the red wizard lady and hitting her, during this time I heard what sounded like a stabbing sound (something the main characters couldn't make since no swords) and the barbarian lady fell back which immediately led into the time stop spell. For me I could tell something was wrong when they didn't show the barbarian lady at all during the time stop spell and after just hearing the stabbing noise I could put what happened together. (Quick side note, since they called those daggers something that Red Wizards use I never thought much about why the Red Wizard lady had one, it was just more something along the lines of, oh yeah she would probably have something like that) Anyways, the way they did this moment really is a double edge sword as if you aren't paying close enough attention you completely miss what happen but on the other hand it continues the feel of the movie where you are right there with them experiencing what they're experiencing, and to them they were so focused on fighting the Red Wizard lady that they didn't notice what happened until the fight was over.
Not sure if this also answers your question, but that Paladin did make that little speech about resurrecting someone could be robbing them of whatever life they are living in the next stage, so that could just be a Harper belief?
Final thoughts though..... absolutely loved the fat dragon, questioning the dead and the small joke about how to cross the complicated bridge only for it to collapse right away.
Also Holga probably wouldn't be able to tell that she was hit until the end of the fight because barbarians kinda loose all sense of pain when In combat
Xenk: _"Intellect devourers, small but formidable. They're drawn to mental energy, the higher the intelligence of the prey, the more likely they are to strike."_
*+Intellect devourers walk by, ignoring party.+*
Edgin: _"Well, that's a little hurtful."_
I think Szass Tam and the Red Wizards were done really well. Their aesthetic was just like from a 4e or 5e book. Also nice that they use a legacy character in Szass Tam (from Dead in Thay) , but he's not the main villain.
Two comments. I think choosing to set the movie in Faerun was one of the best decisions they made. It's the DnD setting that the most people will be familiar with because of all the video games and books that are out there.
Second thing is a spoiler
The part near the end where the citizens are able to just run away from the death spell initially bothered me until I recalled that the first time you see the spell being used in the flashback that the people tried to run away but the big bad had his wizards holding the people in so they couldn't get away which tells us that you can just run away from it. And even with the wizards holding the people in, some people, ie the kid who became the Paladin, still got away.
So it's one of the movies where there should fire there entire marketing Staff for the absolute shite job they did.
Pretty much
That about sums it up.
While I'm happy you say it's not as bad as the emasculation comments made us fear, that potentially leads to a different issue. How many people have already been alienated? If the film does poorly, it will be seen as a sign people are not interested in the material, not that they never gave it a chance because the filmmakers shot themselves in the foot beforehand. Where does this film fall in terms of any of that mattering?
Also, another cartoon fan here. Really wish it had gone on longer.
The hero sorcerer (Justice Smith) was a Wild Magic Sorcerer, hence why he had that dial focus and the inability to choose his spells.
I thought the dial was to drop components to cast spells
@@jackbelmont4389 this was going to be my comment about Shad's criticism that the sorcerer never needed comments at 43:00. They showed him grabbing powder from the dial before he blows it at her.
Doesn't matter. They have a lot of rolling back to do to get my money.
18:50
“I would take my kids to see this.”
High praise from Shad
I loved the fact that, as a role player, I could see those metatextual moments in the DnD session where the DM railroads the players a bit or drops in some Deus ex Machina to help the session not end in a TPK (total party kill). You guys brought up a few interesting moments that really tied to the DM injecting concepts into game to try and test the players or inspire them to consider whether to continue as murder hobos or actually become good people.
The paladin was an NPC intended to try and force Edgin to reconsider his slipping morality and to demonstrate a certain power level that our characters dont really have.
The Red Wizard deciding to put them in the arena seems like a save by the DM... who realized that the players are actually really screwed, separated and dead to rights. Perhaps this is a moment where the DM recognizes that he or she expected the players to tread more cautiously and they walked headlong into the trap he or she had set up for them and deciding it was better to railroad them into a different plot path to ensure the players dont just die in that moment and the game end up being over too early.
I have played so many games like that, where I realized that my players were not trusting the facts I gave them and failing to investigate the misleading information... where I may need to adapt the session on the fly to ensure everyone gets to have fun.
Exactly. You could see when the characters failed rolls or got crits, too. The wizard recognizing the staff felt like the DM recovering from the player rolling a 1. "Roll Arcane Knowledge..... A 6?! You realize that the barbarian's staff is a hither-thither"
I think the magic staff 'issue' is not an issue at all. In every dnd campaign I ever play my players forget about all the magic items I give them. And I don't think you realize that the barbarian had it to begin with, and they obviously would have no idea what it was. So when out of options, I found it fitting that the characters all pulled out what is in their pockets to try to solve the problem.
I appreciated that the film focused on just being a good movie, and not trying to set up the next chain of films
Ironically there are plans for future films/TV series
@@apooyosucks There are, for sure. It all gets milked until the magic is gone.
I freaking love the hither flither staff that just lets you cast better dimension door a handful of times a day it's so kool, and the fact that the soccer just recognized it in her bag is great I loved that bit that felt like such genuine dnd.
I'm still not sold on Guardians of the Dungeon.
And that's a completely fair and valid opinion
Understandable, but that's kinda the selling point for this one
Dungeons and Dragons is pretty much that. Guardians of the Galaxy is what stole it, for the lack of a better word, from DnD.
@@atharvadeshpande4749 Guardians of the Galaxy comics pre date DnD
@@GeraltofRivia22 they're not TALKING about the comics, idiot. They're talking about the tone of the films.
Another thing I would like point out Shad, it is that The Forgotten Realms do not need a world ending threath like other universes. You have crazy strong evils and some equally strong good beings to keep them in check. The thing is, the evil sometimes wins, and the good ones lose. Sure, the world did not end, but a whole realm got destroyed and its inhabitants were butchered savagely. Check out what happened to Myth Drannor and Nesme (twice). Even Neverwinter, the city in the movie has been destroyed fairly recently by a promordial that was unleashed and it killed 99% of the population and the whole city had to be rebuilt. The stakes are there, and do not need to be apocalyptic to matter.
this vid is proof they dont just hate on things when something good comes out they praise it just as much as they criticize bad things
It is April 1'st in Aussieland? I did not think they were that far ahead.
They're releasing it a day early so it has time to get those views before April fools 😂
I fucking hqte april fools youtube content. Especially when it's not deleted later.
It seems far too genuine to be April fools
It’s 12:16 am on 31st of March here so this is not a joke
@bencegergohocz5988 But April 1 is ehen Mooper historically releases GDELB. How shall I learn about the Red Car Law otherwise?
I’m glad it turned out like this. I love Faerun after years of treasuring Neverwinter Nights. I was so excited for this when I saw the Owlbear, but the directors really sank my expectations for it. I don’t think I’ll see it in theaters but I may stream it.
Another one to watch on 123
It’s worth going to see it in theaters.
It's definitely worth seeing on the big screen
6/10 plot, 10/10 humor. Watch it for the lolz.
@@thenerdyarab7622 it's gonna take a lot more than 1 decent movie to get me back to the theater bud also hasbro is rich enough already no need to support a shitty corp like that
I think the greatest strength of the movie, is the fact it is relatable to D&D players and Dungeon Masters. It felt like the typical experience you have. The party trying to make choices together, getting it wrong, leveling-up, etc. So you identify what was happening as a reflection of what most of us experience when playing a game at our tables. Indeed it is an enjoyable movie. I liked the fact that the movie wasn't pretentious, or took itself too seriously. All of that I reckon made it a very enjoyable experience. And that is what matters, having a great time. That is a very D&D way of thinking.
"It's a hellscape. Everything is trying to kill you". Soooo, like Australia?? ;)
every plot hole the movie has can be explained with "DM says so"
Not really, sense this movie is never contextualized as people playing DnD.
D&D recently stated the 5 magic items from this movie (as free content) and they are all listed as Legendary.
Is that for Dungeons & Dragons Online?
"At some point you have to accept that it's okay to stop supporting people that hate you"
They told us what they think of us. I don't care if their movie turns out okay. I'm not watching it.
Thank you. Apparently everyone has just rolled over like anything wizards of the woke did recently never happened.
Reason #1 as to why I'm not gonna watch this. I don't care if the movie is good they don't deserve my money
@@osets2117 yea I definitely won’t be buying any books from them but I figured if my movie ticket is 7 bucks, even if WotC got 5 of that (which they probably don’t) it’s not that big of a deal. If I lived somewhere that movie tickets are like 20 bucks than I’d have a different opinion lol
@@terradon852 they're $20 where I live lol
Wizard of the Woke? What the heck have they done? You’re hallucinating. If anything get mad at them over the licensing issues, not culture war BS. And you heard Shad and the boys- whatever the marketing people said beforehand the movie itself wasn’t “woke” at all
Did I hear Shad say the Bard was INSTRUMENTAL to the end?
For me, the bard not using a sword or axe, is fine, and in fact sounds like something i would do. What killed me is him not having spells as a bard.
Three reasons why Edgin didn't visibly use spells: 1. Bards use their Performance skills to weave magic (usually music, but it can be dance, speeches, anything) which is far more subtle than wizards speaking arcane words. - 2. The movie already had two main arcane spellscasters: Simon the Sorcerer, Safina the Red Wizard. Edgin was the "face" of the group and the central point-of-view protagonist, the movie focussed on his backstory & emotional journey; having Edgin also cast spells left and right would have confused viewers who don't know D&D. It's better to have clearly separated roles to introduce characters.
3. The movie established early on that Edgin had been a member of the Faerunian Harpers guild, but he had abandoned his oath and burned his Harper book. Given that paladins who break their oath lose a lot of their paladin powers, it's not unreasonable to say Edgin was subconsciously rejecting his Bardic powers.
Yes, I am aware that members of the Harpers can technically be any D&D class, but typically Harpers are Bards, Rogues, Rogues, Druids... people with outdoor survival skills but also social skills, language skills and stealth and perception, as Harpers often act as spies and information gatherers (as shown in Edgin's flashbacks) who oppose corrupt or evil individuals or organizations, thus they have to travel a lot through the wilderness but also be able to blend in in cities.
I think the adventurers in the arena were the good adventurers that were rounded up over time (due to being caught during their investigations into her plans) earlier.
Also they couldn't cover her mouth in the last fight cause she had Misty Step and That 5ft pointblank knockback spell.
With the portal it could be one of those staves that recharges on dawn rather than a hard limit, though tbh they didn't use it a huge amount of times.
I think I saw on the official item description from D&D Beyond it has 4 charges and regains 1d4 charges at dawn.
@@SimonClarkstone oh thanks :D
Still not giving wotc/Hasbro money after what they've been doing lately.
It was a humorous movie that took its world and its lore seriously. I really appreciated that.
It's hard to give this movie a chance after what the creators said in the run up.
What did they say?
@@ONEPEAKFRFR They find it funny to emasculate men. They find it fresh.
They said they love emasculating leading men.
They said the quiet part out loud. It's what they wanted the film to be.
@@soujemn5 problem is they were morons who didnt even know how todo that properly
you cant emasculate a male character who isn’t super masculine or action hero style masculine by making them comedy style roles or the “roguish charismatic leader” type who doesnt really fight alot and likes to run to do crazy shit
its like them trying to emasculate jack sparrow good luck w that
shit thats honestly a good comparison a slightly less zanny jack sparrow set in dnd is the lead chris pine played
as for the other male charecter well again how can u emasculate a character that really isnt super masculine to begin w and is more a comedy role?!
like fr this movies roles are very old tropes in both film and dnd
the writers are just wokoid brainlets who probably had most of the script written for them by the people wizards sent to oversee the film and make sure it felt like dnd which it actually did
and weve had this before recently where hollywood and games have pushed and baited woke shit and it wasnt actually full on woke it was bait or again they thought it was woke and it wasnt they just were idiots
The staff thing to me felt like the DM just flying by the seat of their pants when someone rolls a Nat 1 on the traps but the plot needs to keep moving.
If you look at it like actual D&D sessions when you get to the Portal Stick part and the specific moment they screwed up before it, it was essentially a GM OH SHIT moment and needing to get the party moving forward.
Sorry, Watch, but the only Dungeons & Dragons movie I acknowledge is the Community episode Advanced Dungeons & Dragons.
Big Trouble in Little China was a great D&D movie
I love the Drow cosplay, no lie.
He wasn't a Wizard, he was a sorcerer.
A wild magic sorcerer
Saw it with my LARP warband. fun times.
A lot of Shad’s critiques are some of the ways the movie replicates the feel and patterns of an actual DnD campaign. To me it’s like he’s so familiar with the setting but has never sat down and played and actual pen and paper session of DnD. Maybe he knows of the setting more from playing the PC games like Baldur’s Gate and Neverwinter Nights?
Examples: The party messing up the DM’s amazingly intricate bridge puzzle and so they “mysteriously” find a staff of portals. Thats classic roleplaying with a good DM after the party has messed up.
The mysterious overpowered character that joins them, helps for a while, and the leaves. That’s a DM NPC right there.
Holga going to visit her ex husband was also classic party members role playing stuff totally uninvolved with the plot.
When he complains about how things are “so convenient”, that’s just what DMs do when the players are floundering and don’t know what to do next.
I guess he has valid points when judging it solely as a movie, but his familiarity with the setting made me expect he’d judge it as a conversion of a DnD session to the big screen.
The convenience of the staff was spot on. That is an example of DM Fiat when the players screw up and for the quest to continue, the DM has to pull something out of their ass. As an avid RP'er for the past three decades, this movie was the perfect translation of D&D campaign to film. It was almost perfect. 9.5/10.
The realms were not always so ridiculous. Wizards ruined it. Read the avatar trilogy. So good
Wasn't that more of the gods ruining it though? Until Ao showed up. I think the Wizards ruined it when they were actually arcanist and had access to spells over 9th level in Netheril. Well, one wizard ruined it...Karsus.
@@ryanwaters6586 I think @RyanRott3n meant wizards of the coast.
I’m sorry but a novelization of this movie would have fit nicely on a shelf between Curse of the Azure Bonds and Spellfire. There are certainly more serious stories in Forgotten Realms but to pretend that this movie is totally out-of-band is ridiculous.
@@steve43ful I had not seen the movie before I wrote the comment. I have since and would say that I really enjoyed it. However. I would say that my previous statement was in my view still true.
@@jonakin89 of course. More hasbro after they purchased wizard but no the less
I like that they use real costumes for the animalistic characters
My favorite: "Oh, Jarnathan!"
Also, I didn't realize there was an "emasculating men" narrative around the movie going around the Internet concerning this movie, but I don't feel like there was any of that in this movie. Though I guess I don't need anyone to explain why there actually is some... It seems like people would get overly upset discussing it.
EDIT: re: predictability, I thought the thing at the end that I'm assuming you were referencing, I thought that because it was predictable, they needed to lampshade it a bit, maybe make it a choice that was earned instead of just the thing that was the obvious solution to the problem.
In the same tone "She's throwing potatoes!" XDD
One of my fondest memories growing up is playing dnd with my father, and I've been a DM for the last 5 years. The sweater I wear 95% of the time looks like a suit of armor. I love Dnd. I'm still never going to see this movie. When Wizards of the Coast tried to overturn their Open Gaming License, that was a major strike against them, and I like many cancelled my dndbeyond subscription. At the time there was talk of boycotting Honor Among Thieves, but since WotC relented from overturning the OGL (eventually and painfully), I decided I would give the movie a chance...until the writers came out and said they were deliberately emasculating the men. I'm tired of this crap. If they lied about it and the movie is actually good then they are idiots, because I will never go to watch it solely because of what they said.
They just didn't use the right words, someone else I watched that saw it said essentially what they were trying to get across is that the male characters aren't all tough and Frontline, the main character is a bit of a coward and a bit goofy but he's the one to take charge and bring the group together, and they pointed out that there is a "gigachad" male character that comes in and does some cool stuff lol
@@GrimViridian
Fine; but Hasbro/Wizards is still a shit company that takes money from DEI-peddling plutocrats like Blackrock. I don't care if Gary Gygax rose from the dead and pronounced this movie as his purest divine vision, WizBros ain't getting a bent penny out of me.
@@GrimViridian So if the creepy guy offering candy “used the right words” it would be okay to get in his van?
Nah. Hasbro & WotC are evil. The hobby is independent of them & their corruption & (while having some well made fantasy films would be great) no one should be giving them any more money for their efforts.
Same
They should've just kept their mouth's shut. But they HAD to go a think they were accidentally saying something. I can !00% tell whoever made that comment was a woman because men know how to market to other men. And you don't use the word "emasculation" to market to the male half of the audience. So either they're VERY clueless or playing ignorant maliciously to subtly push the idea.
I loved that the Paladin was played as Lawful Good, and not Lawful stupid. He was there to aid them, looked bad ass, was badd ass, and then when he was not needed, left, because he knew what they were planing, but wasn't so "hardcore" about being lawful that he had to step in. Instead he was like this trek is now yours to take, i'll will e on my way, and left walk an straight and narrow path.. oh wait there is a rock will he go around it? Nope he just walked straight over it. lmao
In the flashback the beckoning death is contained by a wall of Force. in the coliseum there wasn't anything to contain it. When th Red mage notices that there is no one there to be affected, she stops the spell. That is why it didn't keep going. I think her plan then became stop the heros and then lock into the city all she could and restart the spell.
Watch the fight again and you'll see the blade get used, and then she stumbles off to the side and is out of the fight. It is there but SO much is going on, you have t be looking for it.
Yes that fat dragon is canon, he is named Themeberchaud.
My only concerning open plot points that never got resolved were the fate of the cartoon cameos. ( Did they escape offscreen or are they now infectious zombies? Did they hide in Presto's hat?), and The gamblers in the skybox ( Definitely infectious zombies.).
All in all a excellent adaptation and the best representation of a known campaign setting so far.... outstripping the animated Dragonlance farce by light years.
It very much felt like a live action Vox Machina, and Definitely had actual players and DMs in the creative process and execution.
"Why didn't the witch want to use the resurrection tool on her master"..... Do you know who Szass Tam is? He's not JUST a lich, he is THE ARCH-LICH, Zulkir of Necromancy and RULER of Thay by right of magical might. Offering to resurrect him Would earn you tortures that would make a demon blush. That would be akin to offering to perform a Bris on Hitl3r. Bruh..... 🙄
I was a big fan of Forgotten Realms. I would read all the novels. But then somewhere along the way they joined two worlds and the topography changed, there were brand new races like tieflings running around, etc. And at least to me it was never explained (unless I missed a novel?) So I kind of gave up on it. It wasn't the same planet / world I grew up with.
Doesn't matter if Honor Among Thieves is good or not, after OGL 1.1 and "White men can't get out of the hobby fast enough." Hasbro needs to be taught a lesson, that lesson is, if they're not responsible enough to have it. They can't.
The only way they learn this lesson is for them to hemorrhage money by the gallon.
I kind of like Edgin's Bard not using a sword, which would have just made him a fighter. Instead, they both de-magic'd him and made him largely pacifistic, which gave us the truest version of the bard - rallying allies, tweaking enemies with his wit, and being the charming, encouraging face of the party. Also, it could be noted that, since Harpers are essentially spies vs evil, they wouldn't go around openly armed, but might have specially reinforced if not magical instruments that can be used in a pinch as clubs (battle-lutes). The lack of weapons also played into Edgin's overall pacifist nature - his insistence on not hurting anyone during their crime spree, etc. Regardless of your motivations, violence tends to darken one's soul, and the strength of Edgin's was his brightness.
The paladin was straight-up the competent NPC a DM has to bring in to get his dipshit party back on track. The hither-thither staff was absolutely the pulled-from-thin-air improvisation a DM has to throw in because the party hoses up his meticulously planned dungeon ("sigh . . . ok, the staff you found in the marketplace suddenly starts to glow . . . "). It was these touches - where the writing felt so true to how D&D sessions actually go - that made it resonate so well with D&D players.
I'd actually say he used quite a bit of magic, but since Bard stuff is mostly performance and speech based, its way more subtle than someone like Simon casting something. Bardic inspiration, friends, charm person, vicious mockery, possibly even thaumaturgy.
I'm skeptical that anyone could ever go the comedy route and come anywhere close to "Your Highness." It sounds like they went full on adventure, so good to them!
“Your Highness” had Natalie Portman’s booty that made it so enjoyable to watch.
That movie is awful, though.
@@fmsyntheses awfully enjoyable
My wife and I loved your highness, so hilarious.
@@a.r.h9919 It's just a dudebro weed comedy with a medieval fantasy skin. Quest for the Holy Grail is much better, and that movie's kind of a disaster.
Just got back from watching the film, thought it was great. I actually loved the way that they planned around certain items and then had to improvise because they didn't work out the way they had thought. That just reminded me of every d&d session I ever had. You make an elaborate plan and then the minutest silliest thing just goes wrong and you have to throw out the entire plan. Also, not sure Bards can even use swords :D
The current Neverwinter game (was Neverwinter Online originally) has added Bards recently, and you use a rapier as well as the lute.
Also, College of Valor and College of Swords both give martial weapon proficiency at level 3!
in dnd 5e all bards can use rapiers, longswords and shortswords
So, D&D Beyond actually added both main characters' stat blocks as well as magic item properties. I'd have to rewatch the movie but my first thought after watching it today (hence why I'm back to this video) is the rules were followed for most (if not all) of them.
The staff is tricky as you'd need to count its uses in the initial scene. Afterwards, passage of time can be assumed that is sufficient for recharging it (they had to travel back to Neverwinter anyway) and it's not used that frequently (treasure backdoor plan and baloon distraction IIRC).
As for the red cloud, the Thay clearly dropped her concentration when she noticed everyone's gone as the cloud expansion is not fast enough to catch up with running targets. 30 feet every 6 seconds? That's basic speed of most humanoids and with dashing you double it. Unless you're somehow stuck within the effect you can outrun the spell without issue. The arena was perfect for that purpose at least until people saw money dropping from the sky.
All full descriptions are available for free if anyone's curious for details.
Alnwick Castle (pronounced Annick) in Northumberland, northern England. I thought I recognised it when I saw it. I've been there. It was also used in a couple of episodes of Downton Abbey as well as the Philosopher's Stone. Beautiful castle, the library is absolutely fantastic.
I had no interest initially and the comment about emasculation just confirmed that for me. I just can't be bothered with this anymore. I'd rather listen to good audiobooks on Audible. At least there you can filter out current day shitty politics and just get good fantasy and real heroes.
Do not reward Hasbro. Not only do they not deserve your trust, they have earned your animus.
I think the the spinning thing on the spell caster's hip is his spell components.
I think it's his arcane focus if I had to guess
Shad: "Chris Pine is instrumental."
Me: "You did that on purpose."
It’s Chris pine not Chris Pratt
@@nathanielblodgett8235 Turns out they're all the same Chris in different wigs.
@@Khailward I can't believe that wig stay on after the slap. It should have win a Oscar!
@@nathanielblodgett8235 Their names are too similar! LMAO
I love the Irons Dungeons & Dragons, only because of Irons. Universal treasure in that movie. Scenery-chewing to the max quality! "Come to meeeeeee!!!! Ashashashashashashaaaaa!"
22:52 I mean, they did use some kind of force field projected by several wizards to stop the people from running away the first time around. That kinda implies that the spell doesn't have an infinite range. Also, most magic systems have limits for how long you can sustain a spell, how much strength/life force/mana it costs you, and what kind of range it had. I wasn't confused by this at all.
The Paladin's an NPC, I loved him being an NPC it was the game being played on a table top and translated into cinematic view. My players regularly spend ages making plans then the moment they get a chance leaving the plan to cause themselves in all sorts of problems. Given that it is fantasy and covers the basics pretty darned well I was prepared to accept the occasional hole (druid you can't wildshape into a monstrosity, or wildshape 6 times) But when I DM I sometimes allow Homebrewed rules to let my players get away with stuff. And the Reference to Critical Role and later the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon series were both surprising and joyful to me.
for me I felt I was watching an ACTUAL DnD campaign, the inter party banter. etc even the paladin came across as a DM controlled character which was great. I don't think the men were emasculated. Pines greatest strength was his bardic inspiration his lack of weapon use didn't look like an issue, more of the parties face man, much like Michell's character didn't overpower everything and there was actual teamwork. this is a good popcorn film not perfect but very entertaining at least,
Pine feels more like a D&D 4e Lazylord, a Warlord focused with giving bonus and actions for allies and doing pretty much nothing. Its GREAT.
I loved the beginning backstory, my brother and I were laughing, we were immediately thinking of “he’s bullshitting them.” And it was hilarious was a bit disappointed that the whole thing of the backstory wasn’t just the Bard completely bullshitting the parole officers. But it still worked and was good.
@Starcraf SF I thought the same thing haha. I leaned to my friend when he was telling his backstory and said, "How much of this do you think is true?"
Bards can use swords. They even have a college devoted to it.
Simon was a wild magic sorcerer, which uses charisma as their spellcasting modifier and magic things. So it makes sense that his magic would be effected by his confidence and self respect. Wild magic would also go crazy occasionally, like revealing gravity.
The tablet of reawakening is probably true resurrection, an incredibly high tier spell that expensive and only the highest level spellcasters can use. I don't think it can be mads produced. And after looking it up, I realized it's a modified version of true resurrection as otherwise the spell wouldn't work. It's an item created specifically to counter the red wizard blade, as otherwise to resurrect someone killed by one you'd need a deity to intervene. The Red wizard's blades have powerful necromantic magic imbued that prevents resurrection otherwise. The tablet of reawakening is a rare item made by a group of witches years ago to counter it but i doubt they could've made a ton of them. When zsass tam used it, it did eventually stop expanding, and initially a lot of his red wizard allies used a spell to keep the majority of the people in it. She gathered everyone in one area to help with that. She's also nowhere near as powerful as he is.
The hither thither staff is used around 6 times, which is well within the range for powerful staffs and unless you use all the charges, the trend to recharge a certain amount of the charges at dawn.
The chubby dragon is indeed canon. He was used to power the forges in some underdark city but they couldn't replace with when he got too big and got left behind eventually. The blade the paladin used is just a spell called green flame blade,
22:00 If you pay attention in the flashback it was established that the death fog had a limit because the assistants made a wall to keep everyone inside it's effect