Can A Narcissist Heal? Expert Explains.
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- In this video, Ross Rosenberg, M.Ed., LCPC, CADC, is joined by Yitz Epstein of the Magnolia Healing Center to answer the commonly asked question, "Can a Narcissist Heal?"
ROSS ROSENBERG BIOGRAPHY
Ross Rosenberg M.Ed., LCPC, CADC is a psychotherapist, educator, expert witness, and celebrated author. He is also a global thought leader and clinical expert in codependency, trauma, pathological narcissism, narcissistic abuse, and addictions.
Ross's pioneering codependency contributions are responsible for the sweeping theoretical and practical updates and developing a treatment program that permanently resolves it.
Ross has been featured on national TV and radio and is a regular radio and podcast guest. In addition, he has traveled the world, giving his one-of-a-kind keynote presentations and educational workshops.
His global impact is best illustrated by his 23 million viewed/240,000 subscribed UA-cam channel and the sale of 150,000 Human Magnet Syndrome books published in 12 languages.
In 2013, Ross created The Self-Love Recovery Institute, a hub for his personal development, workshops, professional training, retreats, other programs, and services. Learn more at www.SelfLoveRecovery.com.
Facebook.com/TheCodependencyCure)
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Twitter (@RossRosenberg1)
and now…TikTok! (@RossRosenberg1
#selflove #selflovedeficitdisorder #codependency #codependencycure #selfloveabundance #selflovedeficient #healing #trauma #love #relationships #healthyrelationships #toxicrelationships #narcissist #narcissism #rossrosenberg
I learned to have compassion for a narcissist by putting my mind and my emotions into thier childhood. They suffer so much trauma as children. Childhood is the root of thier narcissism. So I digressed my ex into a little boy, imagining what he would look like as a child. Then I picture being a fly on a wall as a parent devalued, belittled, deprived, physically abused, neglected, and emotionally scarred him. The tears pouring down his child face, the emotions he must've felt. Im sure he felt unprotected, unsafe, and alone-he against the world. Worse yet, not having the emotional or mental capacity to deal with it. And seeing this little boy broke my heart. In my mind, I embraced this little boy who had no choice in his development. As an adult, I have no contact with him, but still feel so sad for him and his inability to change. Its so unfair to him to live as an empty vessel until death. But again, I also show compassion to myself by not having contact.
That is great at how you found forgiveness for him. This is where I really struggle because I went through all that as well as many millions of children and we are nothing like the narcissists who abused us. To me, laziness is a big part of their problem because it takes SO MUCH internal work to be better than where we came from and I’ll be damned if I make excuses for people who can’t be bothered to put in the work to do better. I just walk.
Certainly, one can have compassion for the trauma that formed the narcissist's personality. And on the highest spiritual level, we can forgive them. BUT the only physical relationship you'll ever have with one is self-abusive. Once identified, the only healthy option for the victim is to go no contact. Period. End of story.
Very well put. Yes I’ve done a similar act with my entire family. Compassion without contact is part of the answer. Someone mentioned Jesus Christ is the answer and I whole heartedly agree. Yes the old saying comes to mind though... you can lead a horse to water....
I was that child and... my mother too, even if she hides her trauma, as she wants to hurt others, as she has been hurt by her mother.
I had and... still ongoing, if I allow it... a very abusing childhood, because of her, however.. I chose differently and to be there for others, as a criminologist devoted to this very case.
I, also talk with other people who has been abused and ready badly, but they don't want to hurt others.
It is kind of chose to became a narcissist yourself, or the complete opposite 😥💕
The compassion for OTHERS stops when YOURS starts! 🤗❤️
I was definitely a narcissist, I have changed, its possible. Now, almost like karmic payback, I am in a relationship with a narcissist and I see he is acting just like I used to. Now I am on the other side. So, I can see the difference by comparison. Oh Life, you are so hilarious! (sarcasm). How did I change? Firstly, I was sick & tired of suffering. I couldn't bear the pain of being me anymore.(rock bottom). I could see I was the cause of my pain. Secondly, I got on my knees and came to God, I had a redemptive moment where all of a sudden I could see that I was taking this gift of Life for granted, and I felt terribly remorseful for my actions and I asked God (and my Higher Self) to please forgive me. Thirdly, I did a complete scanning and purging of my childhood and shame and pain. I journaled. I relived, revisited in my mind, every goddamned shitty terrible thing that ever happened to me, or was ever said to me, or that I did to myself. I went through the whole history. Searching and finding every single thing I could remember that was crushing to my soul and spirit. I recalled it in my mind, felt the pain and shame, and then I cleansed it with forgiveness. Forgiveness for the person involved and forgiveness for myself. (Remember forgiving someone does not mean you approve of what they did, it just means you let go of letting the bad thing chain you). Forgiveness I believe is the real key. 4th, I began to integrate my personality ,,,, I think I did this by "knowing that we have all the power to heal and be transformed, when we choose love over fear. This means we must let go of our fear which keeps us in denial of seeing & knowing the truth. If we allow conscious action to accelerate our integration process through holding neutral balance in the presence of extreme polarities, we will naturally allow integration to take place inside of our body, mind and spirit." Become the authentic self. and I did this by focusing on BEING TRUTH, being my authentic self. TRUTH above all.
I'd say this was a fairly quick process once I resolved to do it. (steps 1-3 that is), I am still working on step 4.
THANK YOU FOR THE CNCOURAGEMENT as i try to encourage and help someone suffering in this way TO DO what you've stated!
Pretty sure you did 12-step work (at least steps 1-4) I would dare say any narcissist could “heal” if went through a 12 step program because the same feelings narcs go through and experience are the same to that of an alcoholic, drug addict, or al anonist and they experience recovery from those symptoms…..just a thought
Thank you so much for sharing your journey. I truly believe everyone can heal thyself if they truly desire it. You are also right that for some it may require hitting rock bottom and maybe faced with chronic loneliness before they have no choice but to look inside oneself for the origin of the behaviors with genuine commitment on wanting to do better. Also you are 100% correct that both self-forgiveness and forgiveness of others, is so critical and like lifting a 1000 pound weight off of one’s body. I believe forgiveness can also be physically, mentally, and spiritually healing too, as many people store their grief, pain, childhood abuse memories in their bodies. This is from a Clinician with her own history of trauma. Be well, be blessed, and know that you are admired.
Were you clinically diagnosed? Or you could have just had some narcissistic traits, but not NPD. ???
It's almost 3am and I'm going to church with my grandma in a couple hours, i think maybe that your comment was a sign to truly give my heart to Christ... for a while... I do fear losing the sins that I truly don't really want but they give me validation, make me normal, acceptable, human.It's a performance that I rarely enjoy, but it was all i accepted to have, i was afraid to waste more of my younger good looking years but in order to live I must be me, not my fears anxieties trauma responses.
How did you submit and accepted the authority of the Lord? A part of me rejects it for how "ridiculous" it sound's has the absolute axiom of truth that supports all others, idk if its ego or spite but I woud like to thank you and hear your opinions on such matters.
(Btw if it help I'm 90% sure im some sort of covert narcissist with a negativist personality and with some lesser issues like adhd and confirmed dyslexia, if the shoe fits I'm probably cinderela.
With God alll things are possible.🙏🏻✝️
Anything can be heal, restore or implement...
Amen
I’m a narc raised by a narc. I do want to change. I have insight as to how my behaviors effect others. But sometimes I get these manic episodes where I’m just a total asshole for a couple days like I have to blow off steam and then I feel ok again. The one thing I have zero control over is feeing like when I’m outside in public I’m a character in a movie. All eyes are always on me and I have to perform. Even if that performance is as simple as being hyper aware of the way my hand is on the steering wheel. It’s really bad and I hate it but I can’t stop it. I do want to change
What do you think can help you ? i wrote a comment seconds agoto Ros Rosenberg . If you had a patient who is a narc what would you advice him ?
@@מלי-ש4ג good question. Not really sure how to answer. I guess I would tell the therapist stop playing games. We by default feel superior to everyone. Being self aware yet still having that feeling while being able to logically realize it’s all in my head and I’m just another random person is crazy making in itself. But anyway, yeah. If you’re like “well it sounds to me like (insert typical old therapist cliche here) I’m gonna think “you’re making $200 an hour to sit here and tell me something I could have read for free on some bs Facebook post”.
We know we’re putting on a show. Even when we don’t want to. I literally take a backseat to my body and become almost unconscious as I watch it act out it’s performance on muscle memory. As soon as it’s over, I’m like “man, I really can’t control or change it”. So as a therapist, the only way through it is to call out the narc. Constantly assume they’re putting on a facade, or that they probably think you’re an overpaid moron. We are VERY good at reading people and know the points the therapist dances around in circles trying to get to. We already know. Drop the bs and get to the bottom of it: “you’re a toxic sad broken child sealed off from a life of normalcy , love and vulnerability. Let’s look at your messed up life that got you to this messed up place. It probably won’t help, and since you already know everything I’m about to say and recommend, I’ll just be here to hold you accountable and encourage you to act as if you’re not a narcissist to make life better for everyone around you. Because even though your perception is broken, I know you know that people really are all their own individual person and your actions affect them”. We need accountability partners, not bumper stickers quotes and gaslighting is about how “maybe we aren’t as bad as we think”. Yes we absolutely are
Maybe you dont have this disorder ??
@@hunglikeaslave6793 This is exactly how I feel. But on the other hand I sympathize with poor, homeless, elderly, lonely people a lot. I also love animals and nature (as anybody really). I think im a covert narc., but more on lower end spectrum, trying to cover it up with cringey understatement, being overly humble / honest. Thinking about changing my job to something, where I can do simple things to improve life of others.
I genuinely believe that somewhere deeply buried within all narcs is their true soul their pure soul essence. So there’s many reasons for it to be locked away and over shadowed by trauma responses. In my world I started spiritual journey like 5/6 years ago it could also be a negative entity attaching to people sort of like a possession or soul walk ins on people that have given up. And that is reversible. With love. Have you tried something intense like a shaman or ayahuasca? They have powers and can free you from spirits
Yes I refuse to give up on those people they are a part of us
What happens if the person realises the damaging effects of their behaviours on others & themselves & really want to change but just keeps messing up no matter how hard they try. Speak for myself here I'm starting to think I may be a narcacist but I don't want to be it's nothing but stress & pain, my relationships keep failing, I'm lonely & almost at the point I just don't want to be here anymore because I just want to be happy & normal & healthy but I just keep fucking everything up
Gosh I know the feeling! I commented on this post a month ago, frantic; feeling like I just got spit out of the matrix and now I’m in reality.
Well my friend, this is exactly that: Probably from childhood trauma or genetics I have no clue, but your view of life and interactions could be damaging the people closest you.
I encourage you to start digging… and I mean DEEP into How you really feel why you feel that way , what scenarios make you feel that way and how to stop those feelings from causing you to hurt others. We gotta seek help.
I’m knee deep in digging dirt myself, and am determined to keep digging because I know the truth and I don’t want to hurt anyone else.
but in order to do that, we have to heal. Healing is hard. Healing hurts. Healing is slow, but healing is so worth it!
Step out the matrix Jamie, go get help ❤️
Thank you for your no bs comments.
My counsellor is very nice and supportive and I’m actually gonna be leaving her or applying for a new one because she does not teach me anything or call me out and that’s not what I need. I want to grow.
Those who don't want to change, don't. Narcissists don't want to change.
totally false
Because they think they are the best and perfect
I want to change, i know i hurt people, i learned that the hard way, but i understand it now and I'm gonna change, maybe not cure myself but ill heal and be able to have a person who i can genually care for.
@@fabianapaula4720im a covert narcissist and i just found out what it means to be one. I want to change, I didn't realize that me believing that i was better than people in public was a disorder, on top of knowing deep down im not. its something i still am not able to control yet even knowing how I am.
@@H7X (Here is my response to someone else who wants to change. I hope it helps).
It is refreshing as a Life Coach and a survivor of narcissistic abuse to hear that you truly do want to change. As the MOST HIGH gave us all free-will, all you need is the desire to want to heal and willingness to put in the work. I dreamed of some of my ex-abusers genuinely admitting to wrong-doing and then trusting a loving partner/person (Me) to tell them the moment they start misbehaving to always point it out to stop them from relapsing back to old toxic behavior patterns. I am still waiting to realize that dream. Can I recommend that you consider starting out with grieving the old version of yourself, by just admitting to yourself all of the pain that you may have caused others, and then practicing self-forgiveness. If you are strong enough, you can also maybe write a message, letter, or text to others you may have hurt over the years (please with no hidden agenda or expectations but just to say that you are authentically sorry for doing xyz. Please spell out the xyz as part of taking accountability, self-healing, self-forgiveness, and then forgiveness of others who may have hurt you during childhood). If it is too scary for you to write letters or to take accountability for your behaviors to those who you may have emotionally or physically abused in the past, at least write those letters to them, and you can then rip them up and bury them, after grieving over them. Please try to feel their pain, before moving onto the next step. I am sure narcissism and borderline is more of a very toxic chronic defense mechanism, again from unresolved childhood trauma, then a static disorder. Secondly, then you can begin to forgive yourself and others. We are all products of our childhood, upbringing, and communities. I am certain most people with narcissism are either survivors of childhood abuse, or had an overly indulging parent who spoiled them and gave them a sense of entitlement. People with Borderline Personality Disordered (BPD) often seem to attract people with Narcissism like flies, and most, if not all, people with BPD are survivors of childhood abuse, at the hands of a parent with Narcissism or parent with some other form of significant diagnosis. I know that the MOST HIGH believes in redemption, forgiveness, and repentance and does not want any sheep to be lost. I pray all people with Narcissism, Borderline Personality Disorder, and Antisocial Personality Disorder, as well as, Schizophrenia heal thyself. We all must command all demons and devils to go to the lake of fire now! When you heal please, pay it forward by helping others to heal, as I believe in you. Be well and be free.
Dialectical behavioral therapy is the therapy for people with borderline PD (emotionally unstable PD).... studies show that 10 years of quality therapy is effectictive in significantly improving emotional regulation and behavior for BPD, so that some no longer meet criteria pro BPD.
I think it would take a lot of patience to give therapy to a narcissist and help them figure out how to take accountability. It's understandable that some therapists just don't have the tolerance. But if we close all doors to them and write them off, that makes it all the harder for the people who might want to do something about it. I guess it depends on each individual case. If the population is increasing steadily in narcissism, hopefully there will be a breakthrough in research, so that people with empathy don't all have to move to a different planet.
Narcissism is a spiritual phenomenon, not a social dilemma. That’s the first thing we need to understand if we are to succeed in dealing with it. No amount of tolerance by Therapists could ever change a narcissist! For it is all but a game to them, which they must win at ALL cost! Otherwise Satan would still be an Archangel in Heaven.🤷🏻♂️ The fact of the matter is, narcissists are incapable of empathy due to their inability to introspect and/reflect on their actions. And this is NOT something you can install in them. If you try, you’d open yourself up for abuse and a possible death. They operate from an unclean spirit! THEY ARE EVIL!
Yes the therapy should be to lock them up.
@greylizard1040 I want to mention that Dr Mark Ettensohn, who has a channel called Heal NPD, is having success in this area, which is promising for the future instead of constantly hearing that it's not possible!
Mind you, he's receiving a lot of negative, or downright abusive comments, from people who've been harmed by narcissistic individuals, which is understandable, but extremely sad as well. 🙁
@@cyndigooch1162 Thanks for sharing, I found his channel too, I don't watch much on narcissism anymore, but I like that there is more hope. So many people talk about narcissism like it is full psychopathy but it's not. Channels like Heal NPD definitely need more support, there should be balance.
Aren't narcissist self deceived living in a false reality, the one they create rather than what really is? I was told it is an early childhood coping mechanism that is never out grown.
The narcissists in my life have only gotten worse and they’ve damn near killed me. I’m angry with myself for falling into their traps. But I can’t be too hard on myself because my father, a cerebral narcissist, had a huge influence in my life, for the worse. I somehow marry a covert narcissist and deal with his mistreatment for 30 years, and then discover way too late in life just what I’ve been dealing with. I’m so immensely devastated I don’t feel I will survive. In fact, I’ll probably be dead in a few years.
Be strong. It all hath cometh to pass. Take time off and focus on your healing. I’m now in my fourth year of recovery and healing, it ain’t easy but I take it a day at a time. Eventually we gonna get there. Just keep going. All the best.
@@Turtleback8024 thank you so much dear, I do hope I survive this.🌻🦋🙏🪶❤️
Sam Carter might be able to recommend a therapist who understands narcissistic abuse.
You are not alone. I'm in my 60's and just recently (in the last couple of years) understood what I've been dealing with in my family. But, we're here in this life to grow our wisdom and compassion, aren't we? And compassion has to begin with compassion for ourselves. I'm so sorry you had to deal with a covert narc spouse for thirty years, that's so hard. But now, you've understood and faced what you're dealing with, that's the first step toward healing and a new start in life. Please don't give up on yourself and your life. It does get better over time.
I have very borderline traits but I have high empathy and I am able to look at my own behaviors and take accountability for them. Very confusing but I’m in therapy and hopeful to sort through these issues. My soon to be ex husband is a type that I think does see his impact of his actions and words on me as his wife, he just does not care. Many times actually where I was crying and hurt over something and he would laugh or say I was fake crying when I don’t even have the acting capabilities for that lol. I used to cry very easily but after 5 years with him, I actually have become numb.
You are right and the guy is inaccurate about people with Borderline Personality Disorder being unable to be self-aware and capable of changing. I work with many individuals with BPD, and may have many symptoms myself, and many are highly empathic and may be survivors of childhood narcissistic abuse themselves. Sadly, why BPD and Narcissism gets lumped together, it’s because I believe both appears to have significant fears of abandonment and can seemly easily discard others, which may be endorsed by the fears of abandonment. It becomes a self-serving bias, and both can be survivors of childhood abuse. One caveat is that potentially people with Narcissistic Personality could have either been abused or had parents who were overly indulgent and spoiled them. Honestly, I haven’t met any of the latter yet. Most are survivors of either emotional, physical, or sexual abuse. I am hopeful that you will fully heal. Be well and blessed.
I get it! He's trying to say that narcissists can't be healed BY HIM, not in general.
Exactly. All it takes is the desire, will-power, truly wanting to heal, and someone willing to assist especially with the accountability piece. Sadly, I have worked with people with narcissism who came to me to heal, but once it was discovered they were exhibiting narcissistic traits, they clearly stated they don’t want to let go of their anger because then they can’t use it as a badge of honor to take out their childhood traumas on others. So they fled from sessions to another. Unfortunately, for people to want to truly heal from any form of abuse they will sometimes have to hit rock bottom and feel completely isolated and alone to change their behaviors.
Greetings from London. Nice to hear from you again. 👆💪😊
We can learn to control ourselves and learn to deal with it. I’m learning how to do this myself
Compassion is a really bitter pill to swallow when trying to give it to these people. Our very humanity demands compassion however I do believe that their behaviour is controllable to a degree and they don’t care to control it because they need a verbal and sometimes physical punching bag to release whatever they need to.
I had compassion for my now deceased MIL because when we were on talking terms she told me a little about her Mother and her childhood but didn’t really talk in terms of abuse. Knowing what I know now, she was abused. Every compassionate fibre in my body left me as her abuse got worse and worse toward me, to a point, I was left wondering if I wanted to live and not suicide to escape her wrath purely based off what someone else did to her.
She died about 17 mths ago, I have NO regrets estranging myself from her about a year before she died and I certainly have NO regrets for taking any ounce of compassion that I had left for her and not seeing her on her deathbed. Yes, you can kill any ounce of love anyone had for you and whilst most people won’t take accountability for that truth, it’s fact!
So what if someone just realized they were one and wants to change.....
They hate the way they act in manic episodes...
is he saying there is no hope?
Is there any medicine? Or technics to help them realize their acting selfish?
Is there a way to train and it redirect the thinking process?
Are there certain triggers that they can look for to avoid an episode?
If therapist won't help, who will?.... Are their tiers or is everyone under the same category...... Asking for a friend
If a narc wants to go for them self than he may can modificate some of the bad behaviours but really cured??Naaah they will always be a narc unfortunately 👺..there are narcs that were able to change but I guess these are the ones that have little empathy left and we're able to really understand that they have a big problem going on that has big impact in the life of others...if your narc just goes to therapy to hold a person in his or her life than it will not be successful...in Therapy they work on self reflection and how others view the behavior they are showing...this what narcs actually don't understand.. How others really feel..they also work on the childhood trauma... But if the person is too deep on the spectrum help comes too late... This is the sad truth...
@@bloodymary8540.
thanks for your insight… I completely agree!
A sober person will say all the time that they are one drink away from being an alcoholic again.
A Narc has to become aware… unfortunately, that usually doesn’t happen until our whole world is turned upside down.
Then we have to be willing.
& we have to work
& we have to slow down
& we have to put others before ourselves.
& we have to do this DAILY and know that we’re moments away from returning to a rage of chaos.
Change into someone who doesn’t have to do this work no? But with God, therapy, deep work, meditation/reflection, open communication, and forgiveness, compassion, and HEALING I think there’s some of us that can alter the reality we’ve created ourselves to live in.
Unfortunately therapy is far too expensive for me. There is no therapy for this condition on the NHS it's struggling to heal the more deserving very sick as it is.
Thank you Ross these people can't change/ heal I have lived with 2 my mom and boyfriend respectively I fled they are still the same.
Breathe DEEP Breathe SLOW (through the nose)
Experience the emotions and let them go.
Every abuser has first been abused but not all have been given the opportunity to heal.
It's not that they are devoid of empathy as much as they have shut themselves off to protect themselves from the pain...But they can reconnect through Deep Breathing and regaining control of their emotional intelligence.
what specific type of breathing? is there a course for this?
@@fred1234fred DEEP Breathing.(through the nose) Controlled and SLOW.
The 'Art of Breathing' is overlooked by many but is an essential component to healing in all regards (Mental Physical Spiritual & Emotional)
It controls 'Emotional Intelligence' & 'Willpower' as well as all aspects of self-control. That is why when people get upset they are told to breathe to calm down.
Begin your own course and start by deep breathing as soon as you get into bed at night and again before you leave it in the morning and make it your daily Mantra (Breathe DEEP Breathe SLOW) to do throughout the day.
You'll notice changes in your life within 150hrs..use them wisely.
Such sdound advice from level headed men. Thank you for contributing to the group of "safe people" on this planet. Im so grateful 🙏
I don't have compassion for the N who has nearly destroyed my life. These N's are not remorseful
They could choose to heal & change, but usually don’t choose to do so.
The will never want to change for anyone because they believe nothing is wrong with them. They can Fake change in order to get what they want but never truly change. Anything else is just wishful thinking.
If a narcissist ask Themselves for God to intervene and change them , it will happen
Yes they can heal.
Sounds optimistic. 🙏 I hope so for my sake.
How is it that the same trauma that initiates codependent or SLDD allows for the codependent to heal? How can they heal but the narcissist can’t? Isn’t SLDD a personality disorder as well? I am learning that I’m SLD and am concerned that I’ll ever reach recovery, when I had the same trauma that induced this condition as the trauma that induced the narcissism in my soon to be ex spouse.
It makes me so sad to think my daughter will never heal… it’s heartbreaking
@@smashobscurity7050 according to Ross the probability is very low,
You have to learn to accept the things you cannot change.
@@sharongray4074What did you do to her?
@@ufcnutta4203 what do you mean?
@@sharongray4074 What did you do to mess her up so bad, that she turned into a narcissist?
I do agree with the fact that you can be compassion with someone who lack completely to feel anything good or, do anything good to, or for others.., unless if it is for their own convenience in a long run.
Some narcissist, when they go to therapy, they learn more, of how to manipulate 😱🛑
Thank you so much, to the two of you, for the video /meeting. 📚🧘♂️👆
Wait... 4:06 I had to listen three times. He refuses to work with narcissists because of his "ethical focus" but admits that he himself doesn't have compassion due to his childhood. Did I hear that right? It almost sounds like he himself is a narcissist based on his own description and definition.
I think he means he doesn’t have compassion for narcissists because he had a difficult childhood himself: Either A. He was abused by a narcissist and doesn’t think they deserve forgiveness of B. He experienced terrible things as a child but didn’t become a narcissist himself, therefore there’s no excuse for the bad behaviour of narcissists.
I feel forthem we can't discard them but we can help them
Hey Ross - i have read your book “the human magnet syndrome” and I feel I fit the criteria for SLDD . I was gaslighted by a narc and am wondering if you still offer therapy sessions ? I’ve watched all your videos on gaslighting and listened as you said you will need to talk to a psychologist. Would love to chat !
Hi there, please email us at help@selfloverecovery.com for more information about psychotherapy.
So what if the diagnosis was wrong and it just needed to find peace in themselves
We can understand how them narcs ended that way but we should never ever make excuses for them. In the court of law, they will be trialed just like you and I, as they are not psychotic. So they best be held accountable for every single trauma they cause others
I disagree with what he stated about Borderlines, who are often very empathetic and compassionate, and often developed Borderline Symptoms by being a supply for Narcissists. They may lack some self-awareness, but in therapy they eventually will admit that there friends may be mirroring their behaviors or have similar personalities and that’s why they end up trying to avoid/discard the person because they fear that person is going to discard them or they have intense fears of abandonment. However with the proper, loving, and supportive Therapist or Life Coach, they become very self-aware. If they complain about someone else’s behaviors or play the victim, while their feelings are valid it’s also a projection defense mechanism. All a Therapists needs to ask one with BPD does that behavior remind you of someone else? They will admit and say “yeah me”. Please stop trying to gaslight people with BPD in with narcissists! Otherwise, it’s true that Narcissists will never take accountability for their behaviors and will flee a Therapist as soon as she is aware that she’s dealing with a Narcissist and try to get them to take accountability or to see things from the perspective of their victims/supply. They only know how to feign empathy and compassion.
This guy makes money selling books salted with controversial statements. Honestly glad he’s admitted to having no useful insight and a tendency to make absolute generalizations on this matter early on. Glad I didn’t waste any more time.
Hopefully court and the documents/records will bring my narc to a point of personal accountability for once.
They can heal and get help.The question is will they humble themselves get help and get better.Also all things are possible with the Christian God.
This is true
When he says the narcissist can't see the problem is the before his interview with Sam Vaknin?
My narcissistic mother was left at home as an infant while her parents worked. She is 70 years old. She was made fun of for picking at her diaper and eating her poop by her mom, my grandmother, in front of her friends (and even us kids). She wasn't fed or taken care of for long periods of time as an infant. She was left at home with her very evil, crazy grandmother. My great grandmother horrifically abused my grandmother.
So could it be her narcissist personality formed in early childhood due to neglect, abuse and not feeling loved. The root of narcissist people is fragility and a lack of esteem etc.
She in turn horrifically abused all 4 of her children and me the worst because I would not validate her. I have ADHD and was seen as strong willed and not as compliant as my sister's. (The truth is I learned to tune her out most of the time because she was screaming and yelling or constantly talking and I found it overwhelming! So, I wouldn't hear her or remember everything she told me to do)
My mom is much better than she use to be but I don't know how much is real change versus conditioning out of loss of relationship as 3 out of 4 of us kids have completely written her off at times and in adulthood establish what we would and would not accept from her.
My one younger sister makes excuses for her and enables her by putting up with her outrageous inappropriate behavior in her home, but mom can control it depending on who she is with.
Wow thank you for sharing your story and confirming that one origin of NPD is neglect and abuse in childhood, as many are realizing. I am happy you and your siblings survived that experience too.
So the narcissist basically is not bothered about you, they just want you be a robot. So, there is no question of healing. If they love and respect you, they would have a different attitude towards you.
Having compassion for the narcissist sounds impossible. My mother had a good childhood as far as I know. I knew my grandparents very well and they were wonderful. She was awful, I don’t see her as a victim at all.
Narcissim can also result from over spoiling a child.. Its not always abuse...
And don't underrate the fact, that even our grandparents were "other people" in the past. Most people know their grandparents as lovely and caring. But at the same time, we know that our parents hadn't that kind of a warm treatment. It's not always "one big thing", that you can verbalise to others. More constanly and passive aggressive.
Narcissism is genetic , only few people you see have trauma , rest have a gene problem. I have seen it run in my family
Tried unsuccessfully to get the malignant narcissist I divorced to do ongoing therapy with me. Driving home After the only 2 sessions he was “forced” to go to ..He’d call the therapist vulgar names because she touched on , attempted to expose his truths and accountability aspects he’d been so used to blame shifting and projecting onto me and others .
He even bragged to ME that she was easily manipulated into believing his lies he told her.
Quit calling narcissist victims. Most of the narcissist I know are victims in their own minds. Had better upbringing than I had myself most of them needed more discipline. Sorry, I know too many narcissist that were just not disciplined, Are now entitled and try to manipulate everybody to get what they want no trauma involved except for the trauma they try to make up. Blaming everybody for the way they are.
So basically, we are hopeless. Got it.
No. Done.
A good diet that includes coconut may help but there’s no cure for this hideous condition
Jesus Christ is the cure!
How can coconut help a Narcissist?😂💀
Would hypnosis work?
I don't think the therapeutic models are right for the Narc . compassion and love is one of the keys . Second to explain to him how his behaviour precievd or felt by the other person and offer on alternative experience and alternative behaviors . That's a start Carry on with this ... Make sure he has a good income . Pulling them to pieces and not goving the above of course will be extremely difficult to impossible for the Narcsist . Ask them before you criticize if you can tell the true as you think it is and tell them that you are very open to hear if they can realate ,agree or disagree with you .Honesty and telling them when you are 100% sure that you are taking the risk that he this patient leaves you Is a big step for the therapist .Try it sir . And if I am alive i hope we can discuss it in few years .Any medical help ? as peels /tablets ?
I sort of agree but it’s been attempted and there is only one thing missing in your recommendation. The person with narcissism has to want to change and become a better version of themselves. I personally have been told by someone exhibiting NPD traits that I don’t want to let go of my anger from the past, and as soon as they knew that I knew they had NPD, they went running to another who will only be compassionate and pacify and coddle. They were always the victim no matter what role they may have played and thought they were perfect. This is from a very nurturing, loving, and compassionate person, but any true and genuine clinician can only coddle for so long and must try to help their client’s learn how to take accountability, but we can’t make the changes for them.
❤️
I believe there are 1 in a trillion type of exceptions.
Internet dung. Nothing to see or hear
Victim in their own minds.
Do not believe his words! This is absolutely not true. Pathological narcissism can definitely be treated and have loving and fulfilling lives. It's challenging, demands strong commitment and it's a very long process (years of therapy), but it can be done. Look into TFP (Transfert Focused Psychotherapy) or MBT (Mentalization Based Therapy).
True
All of these disorders can be healed. Very dangerous to keep propagating this stigma. Therapists need training. Stop blaming the victim.
give me one example then
You can't have compassion for demons.
Amen
Never
I also see narcs as victims. They wouldn't be this way if they knew 1.) that they are, and 2.) how to fix it.
No they can’t be healed they are forever victims who will never admit to fault that would mean they are not all knowing & not perfect it will never happen. RUN 🏃♂️
Are addicts narcissists?
Some con be, but addicts are not narcissist
Yes many narcs have substance addiction
Yes many narc's are addics too.