I thought that they used the actual USS Reuben James for target practice. Many years ago I took my family on a guided tour of it while on Port O’ call at Los Angeles. Great ship and crew. A crewman had written on a bulkhead with a sharpie, “if it flies it dies” next to a drawing of an aircraft. Glad to see one of that class lives on in the care of our Polish friends!
I have over 1000 hours on SH-60B, spent many months on one of these ships. Thousands of landing in all conditions. Well presented and quite factual. You failed to mention the data link the Helo has with CIC, sonar techs (like you) could see all my DIFAR sonar buoys and help me analyze, very powerful tech for the day.
When the AW couldn't figure out what the heck was going on . Data Link was also great for chatting with the boat during the ENDLESS night flights doing intermittent radar searches in the Pacific
You navy pilots amaze me. You fly the 60B and also have a great understanding of sonar and ASW. Do the pilots learn ASW along side ship guys? I don’t know much about the Navy.
I was an OS2 and an ASTAC aboard FFG 52. Many evenings spent talking to the AW and pilots while doing ASW exercises. I’m an aviator now (P-3s first and now P-8s) but I always want the chance to land a 60 on the flight deck of a frigate. Sadly, that will never happen. Glad you got the opportunity.
A little know detail of the Stark damage control during the incident; the missile that entered the Port side at the main deck actually went right through the ships fire main which is exactly behind the bulkhead where it is blown out in the image. The entire fire fighting effort had to begin with DC Central isolating that part of the fire main to slow the massive flooding which was happening at the same time. Many sailors died in the fire, but more in the lower berthing just below that floor. Additionally, the ship would have like been attacked again had it not been for the fireteams concentration of efforts on the RICER room which contains all the support equipment to keep CIC running. Due to their incredible courage under fire and their fire fighting training, they were able to keep the ships weapons/defenses operating which I am certain saved many, many more lives. I was the CIC Watch Officer and the OS Division Officer aboard the USS Vandegrift and it was the Stark which had only relieved us after 7 months doing the exact same job. I still feel sick that this event could have occurred the way it is described. No way it would have happened. God bless the Crew of the USS Stark. Amen.
I also remember the USS Stark being hit. And the fact that SCBA wasn’t added to the OHPs in US service until 2000 at the earliest astounds me! When I joined the RAN in 1988(at that time we had 4 of the total of 6 OHP derived ships; oh, and all the short-hulls we got were converted to long-hulls later) I was trained on the SCBA, like everyone else before they went to sea. The first generation of it was at that time being phased out for a smaller, more compact twin-cylinder unit known as OCCABA. Edit: the Australian Adelaide class was equipped with another channel of fire with the ESSM, vastly multiplying the rate of fire for air defence. This, of course, was,only intended as a temporary stand-in on the newest 4 FFGs between the the retirement of the Perth class DDGs and the introduction of the Hobart class DDGs. The ANZAC class FFHs can carry 8 Harpoons in canister launchers so there would always be backup to the slow rate of fire for the FFGs, if they even carried them at that point. One last point, the RANs FFGs that were upgraded also got SM-2.
The USS Samuel Roberts crew did an amazing job keeping it together. and that ships name was in the battle of samar and a part of taffy 3 and the ship was sunk in the sacrifice of taffy 3 the history channel had a good tv show (one of the very few) about it.
Yes they did. My then Bother in Law was her Independent Duty Corpsman, HM1 (SW) James Lambert when she hit the mine. He told me a few stories about it. I served on the USS Flatley (FFG-21) from 87 to 91 as an ET. Dan in Jupiter
Well done presentation. Speaking as someone who served on USS Aubrey Fitch FFG-34, as a SQS-56 tech, 92-97 I can say the OHPs were PoS. OHPs did serve as a kind of littoral warfare stopgap, we were just beginning to take littoral warfare seriously in the '90s, but in the event of a real war our job was to soak up missiles fired at a carrier while in peace time we were "warships" on paper to bulk out the navy. I'm amused at the post 2000 "upgrades" as I left the service before those popped out, but they follow the "just slap more crap onto the hull" design philosophy. Can't speak on most of the engineering issues, but hearing it called away that one of the APUs or turbines had gone down quickly became background noise I ignored. Most of the OHPs did not get the flight deck upgrade for helicopters so the avionics store room was transformed into a tiny 10' X 20' crew lounge which was much better than the versions that got the upgrade and so not only lost rec space but had the joy of hot racking because of the extra crew. Frankly I thought the ship's MASSIVE office complex that took up most of the starboard side (and a fair bit of the port side) should have been removed, but the navy loves their paper work. If you had the towed array (most of us didn't) then you lost the aft battle dress station. Variable pitch propeller was admittedly cool as when you slam that thing into reverse while at top speed the whole ship bucks like it is going to tear itself apart, but it had the unfortunate characteristic of perpetually leaking oil getting the ships fined every time the EPA decided to inspect. The Mk 32 had to be manually loaded with old school block and tackle that took a lot of time to haul up and set up before you could slowly drag one torpedo at a time out of the mag, lever it onto the hoist, crank it into position and then ram it home with three people pushing on it. Each tube is in a different position so you have to reset the position of the "hoist" for each torpedo you want to load. The torpedoes can not be trained out or fired with loading gear in place so it all has to be broken down and stowed below deck. In effect you get six shots then spend half a day reloading, but OMG did we carry a giant store of those f*ing torpedoes. In reality those torpedoes are designed to be dropped directly on top of a subs position by a helicopter and mounting them on a ship is largely pointless. The Mk 13 was the Hood Ornament because that thing required two weeks of work for the gunners to get it working and broke down after firing once - no idea why, may just have been an us problem. The 76mm "intermittent fire" cannon jammed a lot although (from what the gunners told me) it's because the ammo was garbage and not the gun itself - same problem with the CWIS. Weapon system not mentioned 8 Browning M2 50cal machine gun mounts which we ended up using a fair bit, I was a loader/gunner on one of the mounts, PiTA as they were stored in the forward small arms locker and had to be hauled up a whole bunch of ladders, usually at 5AM so they would be ready when the sun came up. "Hull Cracking", lol , in truth the overloaded hull had periodic hull splits making dealing with flooding so routine I just started ignoring calls of flooding unless it happened to be in or near a compartment I was responsible for. I credit the amount of experience crews had with fixing routine problems for the class reputation for survivability.
I served on the Australian OHPs and they were very well liked by us. The upgrades Australia did towards the end of their lives (8 cell vls forward of the Mk 13 launcher, SM 2 missiles replacing SM 1, upgrading the combat data system....) probably should have been done by the USN on the younger OHPs and then replace them with actual warships.
I was an STG on FFG-36 USS Underwood from 93-96. I have to agree with the above. They were a cheap means to show the flag in various places. My favorite assignments were Grenada so we could provide a detachment to march in their independence day parade. Also we were sent to South Africa. I suspect our CO being African American was a factor. The 76mm mentioned was a rapid firing auto cannon mostly firing proximity fused AAA shells. It could do a mediocre version of shore bombardment in a pinch.
I remember the USS Stark incident well. First off, I really question the fact that the Mirage C-5 radar mistakes a FFG for a tanker. Second, The Stark says they tried to communicate with the jet, which did not respond. So, a business jet, armed with missiles (asm), an unprovoked attack on what was thought to be a tanker, but, what was, in actuality, a warship tasked with keeping the sea lanes open), and finally, the fact that the falcon was out of normal lanes, and never responded. It sounds to me like an act of war, all the way around. You cannot help but understand why many Americans had NO issue with thoughts like "Let's turn the whole damn area into a glass ash tray". As for the Stark- I was on shore duty, and one of those fellas did turn up in my office on payday. All of his clothes were lost in the fire, and while he had gotten some civilian replacement clothes, he still had his boondockers. Have you ever seen the bottom of MELTED BOONDOCKERS??? I have. It's almost impossible to understand how hot that deck plate must have been! I don't know if the Perry class was that well designed, but, for my money? Those fellas on the Stark were the best damn firefighters in the world that day, and for a long, long time to come!
Honestly, I've always found misidentification pretty plausible. You are talking about 1980's technology. And specifically, the technology level that France was willing to *export* in the 1980's, not necessarily the 100% best technology that France could build. The Mirage F1 was originally built in the 1960's, the radar was probably an updated model designed in the 70's. So it's not like there was a supercomputer doing fully automated target ID with a neural net. And the radar is being operated by Iraqi personnel who don't have a ton of training with this -- it's a one-off airplane with no trainer variant to practice with, etc. Iraq did have Mirage planes with the same radar, but not many. Most of their air force was Soviet hardware. So the people looking at analog displays making a judgement call didn't have insane levels of experience and expertise with the equipment. IF they were told they'd find tankers, there would be a ton of confirmation bias at play when they detected a blip. The American radar tech of the day on the ship was way better than what was on that airplane, and it never even noticed the missiles incoming. So it's not like our radar was infallible in those days either. In 1988, a Ticonderoga class cruiser with brand new phased array radar and Aegis combat system screwed up and shot down an Iranian airliner it thought was a warplane. The Tico was basically crazy sci fi Futuretech compared to what Iraq had access to in 1987. Screwups happen.
JM: The Mirage radar had no capablity to identify or classify ships. That is purely a judgement call by the plane's crew. As to calling the plane on Guard frequency (121.5) civilian planes are not 'required" to monitor that frequency, so there is no evidence they were hearing it. In the end. the Stark CIC and Bridge officers were lax in not reacting more quickly to protect the ship. They had become accustomed to seeing this plane fly this profile for days/weeks. There was no intel/evidence the Iraquis were intentionally attacking a US ship. They intended to attack an Iranian tanker as they had before. (old TAO and TACCO).
@@guaposneeze the shooting down of the Iranian airliner by the USS Vincennes occurred while the ship was in a harassment gunfight with Iranian multiple surface vessels. The CO, who had been labeled a loose cannon by the other COs in the gulf at the time, usurpted the tactical action officer out of his seat. The TAO is there to conduct the ships weapon systems. There Is a good reason not to have the co issuing engagement orders directly. If the co makes a mistake who tells him no, you're wrong sir? By having a trained SWO sitting as TAO, there is an added level of safety because the co then acts as a safety officer for the engagement. In the case of the Vincennes the COS act of pushing aside his tactical action officer is arguably at the root cause of the downing of the civilian airliner. The co being too close to the problem and issuing direct orders to fire made a mistake. The truth is he transposed to track numbers in his head. First he asked is track 1110 descending? The answer he got was yes. However the Iranian airliner was actually 1011 and it was not descending. Seeing an f-14 ew signature in the middle of a gun battle and what he thought was a descending flight profile, the CO gave the order to shoot. If the Tao had been in the seat giving the orders there would have been a chance to correct this mistake. Now remember the Iranians are just to blame here going out and getting into a gun battle with Naval warships can be a dangerous thing, and now they realize what sort of unintended consequences can occur.
My BSA Troop was adopted by the OHP when she was stationed at Philadelphia Naval Yard. We got a good tour of the ship and they even fed us Sloppy Joes for lunch, and gave us a tour of the Kitty Hawk while she was there.
Back then, civil aircraft transponders didn’t give aircraft type. Only squawk code (Mode A) and altitude (Mode C). These days ADS-B (Mode S) does report more info, but then if they did know aircraft type it must have been reported by another ATC unit or the aircraft its self. Good vid 👍 Impressive how well the OHP faired
Mine was FFG 29. Some sailors called them " tuna boats" because of their size. They were awful in the rough Atlantic, forcing the additions of fins amid ship on hull. I had a friend off the USS Stark, he was decorated for bravery, but he was never the same. The Perry's are great for pickets and ASW. I agree with the other comment, instead of mothballing and selling to 3rd world, update for modern warfare.
Great presentation, so detailed in fact, that I learned something I didn't know about; I never knew they replaced those Detroit diesel generators in the 2000s. As I was an Engineman, working on those Detroit engines daily, stationed on USS McInerney ( FFG-8) from 90-92, it's a little bittersweet for me to hear that. Those engines were incredible in size, sound, and power. I was told they made almost 3000 horsepower, and I could definitely believe it, as they were not only a 2 stroke engine (meaning every downstroke was a "power" stroke), but they were turbocharged AND supercharged. They really wanted the air going in those things to be under some pressure, owing to the fact that they had no intake valves, but intake ports at the bottom of the cylinders. Everything about them seemed huge (and oh so loud---earplugs AND earmuffs for hearing protection when they were running) as well. 16 cylinders (in fact, 2 V-8s bolted together), 156 GALLON oil capacity, and the fact that the OHP's were equipped with 4 of them, each bolted to a 1000 kilowatt generator, it's just nothing like what the average person sees in the civilian world. As a crewman on the "lead production ship" of the class, I was informed shortly after I came on board that the McInerney was used as a test platform for all the planned upgrades for the class in its early life, which would likely explain why there were no other "long hull" ships built until the USS Boone (FFG-28). However, I had also heard that the Boone, as well as the USS Stephen W. Groves (FFG-29), the USS John L. Hall (FFG-32), and USS Jarrett (FFG-33) were actually built as short hulls and then retrofitted as long hulls at some point early in their service lives, though I have no evidence to back up such a claim. It does make some sense though, as it would take a few years to complete the testing, and as the McInerney was commissioned in 1979, it WOULD take until the time the others I mentioned to be commissioned (in '82 and '83) to begin to be implemented in the rest of the class. A few other tidbits......the official speed rating says 29 knots, but I'm pretty sure all OHP's could do 32 knots, like the "Mighty Mac". Also, from a dead stop, to full flank speed, 43 seconds, just WOW. We even had an incident in the Gulf during Desert Storm where all they did was to go from 18 knots forward to a dead stop, not reverse, and when the controllable pitch propeller kicked back to 0 pitch, it was like somebody stomped on the brakes......I didn't know a ship could do that. The propeller shaft only turns in one direction, and never above about 180 rpm......all that acceleration and deceleration came from the changing of the propeller blade pitch, it was pretty remarkable. Oh, and because of only having one shaft, at high speeds, the ship had a noticeable tilt (or list, as it's called) to the left. Also, for some reason, I've never seen any sources that talk about the fin stabilizers that dramatically improved the ships' seaworthiness......they were gyroscopically controlled, hydraulically operated fins installed just forward of midships on either side, underwater of course, that counteracted the force of a roll to either side by adjusting the angle of the fin. Definitely helped a lot. Sorry for the novel, but I love talking about my old ship......and it's nice to know she's still out there, after all these years, having been sold to Pakistan in 2010. They may not be our ally, but, they are technically not our enemy either, so, rather than having my ship be scrapped or sunk, as has happened to a fair number of the OHP class ships, it somehow makes me feel good that she's still getting some use.
USS Hawes (FFG-53) shot down an Exocet on our Atlantic transit to Desert Storm & the Sonar Gang, with a single exception ;), were the smartest bunch of effers I've ever met.
Ahh..the unsinkable OHP's, operated with them many times in the Atlantic, Med and in the persian gulf! Ex-Sprucan Sailor here! - USS Peterson DD-969. And yes, we have another reunion coming next spring 2022 in Montgomery AL. Looking forward to visiting/touring Pascagoula Shipyards. Will be a first visit for me! Missed plank owning crew by 6mos. :(. no regerts, heard stories.
One of the best parts about the OHPs was they were able to do all the miscellaneous tasks so the cruiser and DDG fleet could be left for carrier and amphibious task groups, now that the USN has no FFGs the Arleigh Burke’s are heavily over worked doing all the small and major jobs for the USN and the LCS are garbage that cannot do basic escort duties ( or anything really ) The acquisition of the Modified FREMM frigates for the FFGX programs is probably the best decision the USN has made in over 30 years -ex Oliver Hazard Perry sailor
USS Aubrey Fitch FFG-34 Apr 85 - Apr 88 SC-02 Division Radio Central. We deployed 3 times in 3 years, 85 a 90 day deployment to Central America, based out of NS Rodman Panama, transited the Panama Canal and the Equator that year. January 86 participated in the Space Shuttle Challenger Search and Rescue operation, was one of the first ships to arrive, awarded the US Coast Guard Unit Commendation with Operational Device, MEF 3-86 June - Dec 86 Persian Gulf six month deployment, Straits of Gibraltar, Suez Canal transit, Gulf of Aden, Straits of Hormuz, 1987- Baltops, crossed the Arctic Circle. What a great ship and crew!
I just want to say I really liked this warship brief, I hope you do more in the future. It would be interesting to see some more capable ASW ships covered in the future.
Phenomenal brief!!! I'd love to see more warship briefs in the future, especially one on the Type 23 Frigate. I've heard it's a formidable anti-submarine platform and I'd love to hear your take on it, its use, and its recent upgrades. Cheers!!
I dont wanna put words in his mouth, but iirc he has mentioned it in passing a few times and has praised it. The terms he was describing it in made it sound like one of the very best frigates for that mission
@@Chironex_Fleckeri That's correct. Everything about the T23 was designed from the outset around the ASW mission. Apart from the very advanced sonar system, it has lots of silencing features you normally don't find on surface ships and a very quiet electric drive system.
There is surprisingly not much complexity in equipping vessels for anti-submarine warfare. It always boils down to upgrading sonar (buoys included) and yeeting explosives at targets, either from ship or helicopters (that can also help with spotting). Like many other naval weapons, they are becoming increasingly replaced with missiles, sadly.
Thank you, much appreciated. The Polish frigate ORP Gen. T. Kosciuszko is in Rotterdam this weekend. I'm going to take a look and your ship brief will help me understand what I see.
There was a slight design flaw in the FFG Class that was found later, which was that in heavy seas, the torsion from the ship’s yawing formed a crack in the superstructure at the STIR radar room. We had two feet of water sloshing back & forth in that radar compartment while transitioning the North Sea. NAVSEA solved the issue by welding a two foot strap on all the FFGs at that point in the superstructure.
Served two tours FFG-47 NICHOLAS, and FFG-39 DOYLE. I can confirm this. Had the stateroom starboard side just forward of the wardroom. Hit some weather doing SNIFL exercises off west coast of Scotland, the twisting tore an 8' crack at the Aluminum/Steel weld where the superstructure met the deck outside my stateroom. Cheng and I spent the next several weeks of the underway w varying degrees of constant flooding in our room even after some temp welding repairs. They repaired the tear, but no $ to rip out the carpet and such until IH shut us down due to blackmold growing everywhere. Fun times...
We need to bring these back. My family serviced the shell plate and shafts as civilians. Hull #8 was sold to Pakistan and I was the last American diver to work on it at Mayport. It was a great day to realize how great it is to be an American. There is a story about this ship hitting the dock at Atlantic Marine now BAE shipyard.
The best thing of the FFG7 was the main deck's amidships passageway. That sucker was so wide that it looked like the center hallway in a suburban mall!!!
Love the Brief, I was on USS-Sampson DDG-10 , we were scheduled for deployment in Dec 1986 , USS Stark was to leave in july 1986 , when she lit of her turbins, smoke came out of one of her stacks, followed by a tug that pushed her back to the pier. We left 72hrs later for the Persian Gulf, fate would have it that we would not get hit by the missle and she did, i knew 3 men on her that died, a very sad day for sure. Can you do a brief of the Adams class destroyers, i wounder if we would of survived .
Served on USS Halyburton as OPs. Lost an SH-60b in the Persian Gulf. Later, I was in charge of MVs Hunter and Stryker doing mechanical mine-sweeping ops leading supertankers from straits to Kuwait City. (I had helped establish the rigging for these supply boats to drag bitches, hogs, and otters while assigned as duty officer on a Sunday at COMINEWARCOM, Charleston Naval Base aiding the folks at the mine sweeper squadron as an advisor. Had no idea I would be in command of these "interim solution" minesweepers. When I was had only disgruntled sailors (some awaiting discharge and NJP back stateside.) oh and they had only broken binocs.
Nice thing about the turbine on the Perry's was the fact that the Coast Guard introduced the concept on their 378s in 1967 , and the Navy on there city class gunboats .
Served on the USS Gary (FFG-51) for five years. I'd like to add a few notes: The 21 kt speed was with one turbine running. If both where lit off it could make 32 kts (on a good day). Time 15:13--Top left picture is of the CIC equipment room (directly below CIC on the main deck). You can see the three CIC computers which integrated data from the ship's sensors (RADAR, SONAR, etc) for display on the consoles in CIC. The middle picture is in the SONAR equipment room which is way down, low in the bow under the waterline, and the last picture is in COM (radio central) which is aft of CIC on the 01 level. You should also have mentioned that the Stark was operating under peacetime conditions--the crew was not expecting to be attacked in any way. The screw was reversable also--no reverser gearing installed, we'd just go into reverse pitch. I believe it was the Samuel B. Roberts that used its APUs to get back to Bahrain. The Stark's propulsion plant was not damaged (except for control systems from the bridge). The crew of the Roberts used towing cables to stitch the hull back together. The SH-60s carried torpedoes and could also carry anti-ship missiles.
Interesting to learn about. I was a SH-60B electrician and did 3 cruises on Frigates between 2003 and 2006. When ever we were in port with one of our sister Dets they would come over from cruisers and destroyers to show them how bad they could have it lol Specifically it was the hangers they were pointing out.Those hangers are just giant ovens in heat. Did have fun running from a typhoon off the coast of Japan. Walking on walls and had a day where we were confined to rack. Interestingly aircraft 110 you have pictured I did all 3 cruises with. Not sure if it’s the same buno number, but caught my eye.
During my time in the Navy and before Persian Gulf these ships were the butt of jokes. "Pre-expended Bin ship (read expendable), sink it with a .50 cal gun, not capable, give to Naval Reserve, Helen Keller sonar, the missiles, SM-1, didn't have adequate range. It was very tough on the crew as the complement was based on at sea operation so when in port they were usually in three section duty and sometimes in port and starboard duty. It did change opinions after the Stark and Roberts survived their attacks.
You forgot to mention the Praire-Masker system on the class. I was under the impression it greatly reduced blade and flow noise off the ASW platform to such an extent that when conducting training operations against NATO subs, they switched it off to reduce the risk of collisions. I've always heard that the Perry class were a cast-iron bitch to detect by subs. Soviet naval records released since the end of the Cold War indicate the Soviet subs couldn't hear them at all when the system was active.
One fact about that project 60, it came up with a small-ship, big-ship idea. The small ship was meant to be cost effective and limited in scope to supplement the large ship, which was designed to be very capable. This lead to the OHP, and the Spruance-class. About that Phalanx on the stark, I did some reading around, found some navy investigation documents claimed the Phalanx was actually not operational and they lied about it so they could go on deployment. Had they not done that, they wouldn't have been able to deploy to the gulf. Would be interesting to see how it would have dealt with those Exocets. The Mk38s I think replaced some of the 50mm Brownings used for close range. Pretty capable system, especially the remove controlled ones. I know of those variable pitch props, I was on another ship with those. I just thought they were effective speed controls or for changing into reverse fast without having "shift gears". I never knew if could throw off sonar like that. Also, I did watch some OHPs maneuver themselves and effectively have a 0 degree turning circle. Looked really cool watching them doing that. Never saw a picture of those things till now. I think the Mk.54 was an attempt to build a torp which could operate at littoral environments, which the Mk 46 and Mk 50 couldn't do. I think the Mk 46 got some improvements to handle better in those brown water areas, but I'm not sure how effective it was. It is also a good balance like you said. It's also kinda funny about how that Mk. 50 got a special engine to work at those lower depths the Alfa and Papa could reach, but was stupid expensive between that and it's homing system. The OTO-Melara gun also came with some Anti-air rounds also and was intended to act as a close-range anti-missile or anti-aircraft gun. It's actually rather ubiquitous. The thing is, I don't know how the US chose to arm it's 76mm, if they used Melara's ammo or their own. When I researching this gun, there were talks about "Americanizing" the system, but some magazines seem to indicate it did have some VT-Frag ammo capability. I think the AP rounds came later, not sure if she got those either, seemed like a later development. The hull cracking was due to it having that hybrid aluminum superstructure and steel hull. Going through high seas would cause cracking going through some rough seas. Also, the OHPs would receive an upgrade to get jamming capability. Originally, they only had the SLQ-32(v)1 which could see some radar frequencies related to weapons, but after the Stark incident, part of the investigation concluded that the (v)1 wasn't effective enough and would get a "Sidekick" jamming module2, being designated at SLQ-32(v)5. Oh yea, I remember those old OBAs, which I was on Cushing we had those. Heaver and awkward since it was worn on your stomach front instead of that tank in the back wish SCBAs. The Adelaides also got a new FCS, new radar, sonar, extended the flight decks to accept larger ASW helos and made that Mk 13 launcher fire SM-2s. That last one isn't too far fetched since the SM-1 and SM-2 aren't that different size wise. Actually, that training missile pictured I believe is an SM-2, think I saw that picture before. That modification was stupid expensive, and wound up selling some not very long after that program completed. I do have to admit, those VLS cells are a clever upgrade.
I really think that OHP was onto something: Cheap, reliable, durable. If only the USA would have stuck with that concept, we wouldn't have all the countries developing 15 different designs for prohibitive amount of money!
The Auxiliary Propulsion Units were very handy in Feb 1996 when the rudder fell off the Reuben James (FFG-57) in the Arabian Sea. With no rudder, a single screw ship will sail in a big circle. The thrusters allowed us to make a few knots headway while waiting for a tug to tow us to Bahrain.
I served as OS1 aboard the USS Vandegrift FFG-48. I was ships AIC and later the ATACO which is the controller for the Lamps MK III platform. Fully integrated into the ships CIC including all key flight data, radar, ESM, and sonar buoy data is all relayed directly to our CIC shipboard. That said, you might have missed a couple key elements and capabilities. Well done.
With srews like that you can also drive backwards without changeing into a reverse gear ! Some ships with srews like that don t even have a reverse grear!
I was on board the SBR when we hit the mine we did not, I repeat did not, wrap cables around the hull. The Operations Specialists myself include were assigned a "crack watch" to measure the superstructure crack every 15 minutes to see if it got wider. The Senior Chief Bosun Mate Jack Frost (real name) brought two towing cables up to the 02 Level and asked us to attach them to anything hard and heavy that we could find on both sides of the crack. Myself and another First Class Operations Specialist flaked out the cables. We put one around each of the GTM access hatches (these were used to remove the LM 2500s in case of a failure) and the other end to lifting points on the gun itself. We were under no illusion that these would prevent the ship from breaking in two if the seas got any larger than they were. Please correct this.
Aaron, These are very interesting pieces 👍. Have you ever considered broadening your channel line-up? I envision Surface Brief, Weapons Systems Brief, Military Aircraft Brief, and AI Drone Brief. Your content is always engaging …… enough detail to be fascinating but not so much where it would be boring. I consider your content to be like an AV Janes. Keep up the great content. 🤗
Very instructional...Everything I knew about the PERRYs was from Tom Clancy novels, so I had always believed they were just K-Mart warships built just to be cheap...
Ahhh I haven't heard the term "Spru-cans" in years. Takes me back :) Also, with those LM2500 engines, it ALWAYS sounded like a jet was flying nearby. Took days before you stopped reflexively looking up to see it haha.
The best sound in the world was standing on the flight deck and hearing the LM2500 spooling up to head home after a month of putting around the Caribbean at4 kts.
We have about 8 OHP frigates that could be brought back from mothballs and refurbished. We should do so. Perhaps update them a bit. Plan to use them for just a few years while waiting on Constellation class deliveries. Then transfer them immediately to allies as new frigates come in. Top priority candidate countries should be Taiwan, Romania, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.
Interesting brief. I started watching it, then at 3:37 hear a reference to CIC as the "Command and Control". My years on FFGs (and other ships) I recall CIC actually being the "Combat Information Center". I might watch the rest later.
In Spain we have six of them (Santa María Class, as they are known here) wich are at the end of his operative life and are going to be replaced by the new F110 class frigates.
A couple of issues I have with your brief from a former EW. The SPS- 49 is a low freq long range 2D (bearing/range) early warning radar. Also the SLQ-32 antennas are port and stbd of the MK-92 CAS antenna right behind the pilot house.
If memory serves the "azipod" auxiliary propulsion can even run off the backup deisel generator, which means technically a Perry could be moving even before the turbine finishes warming up. Not quickly, but underway.
The U.S.S. Stark radioed our Swan 51 sailing from the Panama Canal to Florida. Our course took us close past her stbd. side as she had her helicopter up and was just easing along in the exact middle of the Caribbean Sea. She looks like a Frig. should look like, big, beautiful and mean.
What I don't understand is the goalkeeper system that we developed for export is it's a much better system much longer range etc shoots the same round as the a10 gun may be more expensive but it's cheaper than replacement ships
Re the 76mm Mk 75, the first 80 rounds are in the ready magazine. There are another 440 rounds available. Also, typo on the LAMPS page - ought to be SH-60B vice SH-60F.
They're definitely a hard ship to sink. I've seen video of a SINKEX involving a OHP and she took a hell of a beating without sinking. I know they are welded up to stop them sinking immediately, (from one I was involved in with a hulk), but it really was completely bent out of shape but still remained afloat. I seem to remember some kind of problems caused by the aluminium uppers reacting with the steel hull.
The LAMPS slide incorrectly refers to a SH-60F. The SH-60F "Ocean Hawk" was operated by HS squadrons deployed on aircraft carriers. The photo is of the correct SH-60B Seahawk that was operated by HSL squadrons from FFGs, DDs, DDGs, CGs. A bit of insider knowledge about the RAST system. The vast majority of our Seahawk landings were "Free Deck" landings, where the helicopter lowered its probe and then we just manually landed into the ship's "trap". We very rarely used the cables to conduct "Rast Assisted" landings, because it took longer and was a pain. While a RA landing had a slightly higher sea state limit, it took longer and was riskier. It required two brave deck crew to run out onto a pitching and rolling deck with a hook and grounding wire. They braved the wind and rotor wash of the helo and would clip the grounding wire to a pad eye and then use the hook to catch the blowing messenger cable from the helicopter. (The grounded hook was to prevent them from getting shocked by static electricity in the messenger cable.) Once they hooked the messenger cable they would grab it and connect it to the ship's heavier RA cable. The helo would then pull up the RA cable, though the RA cable would often disconnect from the messenger cable while it was being hauled up , requiring the deck crew to run back onto the deck to get the cable re-attached. Once the RA cable was hauled up and locked into the helo's probe, the LSO could easily pull the the helo into the trap. However, we had spent a bunch of extra time hovering over a moving deck. It was much quicker to just perform a Free Deck landing, and if we missed the trap, we'd just lift back up, reposition, and land again. Much faster and no risk to deck crew. On a humorous note, I often watched new deck crew catch the blowing messenger cable with their grounding hook and then move toward the RA cable laid out on the deck only to find they couldn't quite reach. You could see them pull on the messenger cable as if they thought they could pull the helo over to reach the RA cable!
Beautiful hull with a Velveeta box on it. When one had one helo aboard we could carry supplies for humanitarian ops, boat people, narcos with a Coast Guard LE team or a Canadian drone.
Im sure you know Aaron but for people who dont or incase you dont, the CIWS is often left in that "safe" mode which is actually more of a manual mode where the operator has to make the decision to engauge or not. They do that because of a couple incidents where the CIWS shot down friendly aircraft. It does not have a typical IFF system where friendly aircraft will have a special radio tuned to a special number that changes all the time to tell anti air and radar stations that they are friendly. It relies on radar and some very complicated math that is way over my head and I dont understand one bit. Something to do with figureing out if whatever is flying by is going to or currently flying towards it. Like i said it's actually super interesting but way over my head. Cant quite wrap my head around how it works but there are some really good videos here on youtube about it.
The frigate seen in "The Hunt For Red October" movie (USS Rouben James / USS Clarke) now serves in Polish Navy as ORP Tadeusz Kościuszko.
Wadsworth not Clarke.
We should name a ship that too
I thought that they used the actual USS Reuben James for target practice.
Many years ago I took my family on a guided tour of it while on Port O’ call at Los Angeles.
Great ship and crew. A crewman had written on a bulkhead with a sharpie, “if it flies it dies” next to a drawing of an aircraft.
Glad to see one of that class lives on in the care of our Polish friends!
On a Side note, the USS Reuben James is also a hero ship in the other big early Tom Clancy novel, "Red Storm Rising".
My boat
I have over 1000 hours on SH-60B, spent many months on one of these ships. Thousands of landing in all conditions. Well presented and quite factual. You failed to mention the data link the Helo has with CIC, sonar techs (like you) could see all my DIFAR sonar buoys and help me analyze, very powerful tech for the day.
When the AW couldn't figure out what the heck was going on . Data Link was also great for chatting with the boat during the ENDLESS night flights doing intermittent radar searches in the Pacific
You navy pilots amaze me. You fly the 60B and also have a great understanding of sonar and ASW. Do the pilots learn ASW along side ship guys? I don’t know much about the Navy.
I was an OS2 and an ASTAC aboard FFG 52. Many evenings spent talking to the AW and pilots while doing ASW exercises. I’m an aviator now (P-3s first and now P-8s) but I always want the chance to land a 60 on the flight deck of a frigate. Sadly, that will never happen. Glad you got the opportunity.
36:00 as a Brit, have to say I am always impressed by the feats of USN damage control
Well, Damage Control before the turn of the Millennium at least
A little know detail of the Stark damage control during the incident; the missile that entered the Port side at the main deck actually went right through the ships fire main which is exactly behind the bulkhead where it is blown out in the image. The entire fire fighting effort had to begin with DC Central isolating that part of the fire main to slow the massive flooding which was happening at the same time. Many sailors died in the fire, but more in the lower berthing just below that floor.
Additionally, the ship would have like been attacked again had it not been for the fireteams concentration of efforts on the RICER room which contains all the support equipment to keep CIC running. Due to their incredible courage under fire and their fire fighting training, they were able to keep the ships weapons/defenses operating which I am certain saved many, many more lives.
I was the CIC Watch Officer and the OS Division Officer aboard the USS Vandegrift and it was the Stark which had only relieved us after 7 months doing the exact same job.
I still feel sick that this event could have occurred the way it is described. No way it would have happened.
God bless the Crew of the USS Stark. Amen.
I also remember the USS Stark being hit. And the fact that SCBA wasn’t added to the OHPs in US service until 2000 at the earliest astounds me! When I joined the RAN in 1988(at that time we had 4 of the total of 6 OHP derived ships; oh, and all the short-hulls we got were converted to long-hulls later) I was trained on the SCBA, like everyone else before they went to sea. The first generation of it was at that time being phased out for a smaller, more compact twin-cylinder unit known as OCCABA.
Edit: the Australian Adelaide class was equipped with another channel of fire with the ESSM, vastly multiplying the rate of fire for air defence. This, of course, was,only intended as a temporary stand-in on the newest 4 FFGs between the the retirement of the Perth class DDGs and the introduction of the Hobart class DDGs. The ANZAC class FFHs can carry 8 Harpoons in canister launchers so there would always be backup to the slow rate of fire for the FFGs, if they even carried them at that point.
One last point, the RANs FFGs that were upgraded also got SM-2.
The USS Samuel Roberts crew did an amazing job keeping it together. and that ships name was in the battle of samar and a part of taffy 3 and the ship was sunk in the sacrifice of taffy 3 the history channel had a good tv show (one of the very few) about it.
Yes they did. My then Bother in Law was her Independent Duty Corpsman, HM1 (SW) James Lambert when she hit the mine. He told me a few stories about it. I served on the USS Flatley (FFG-21) from 87 to 91 as an ET.
Dan in Jupiter
Well done presentation. Speaking as someone who served on USS Aubrey Fitch FFG-34, as a SQS-56 tech, 92-97 I can say the OHPs were PoS. OHPs did serve as a kind of littoral warfare stopgap, we were just beginning to take littoral warfare seriously in the '90s, but in the event of a real war our job was to soak up missiles fired at a carrier while in peace time we were "warships" on paper to bulk out the navy. I'm amused at the post 2000 "upgrades" as I left the service before those popped out, but they follow the "just slap more crap onto the hull" design philosophy. Can't speak on most of the engineering issues, but hearing it called away that one of the APUs or turbines had gone down quickly became background noise I ignored. Most of the OHPs did not get the flight deck upgrade for helicopters so the avionics store room was transformed into a tiny 10' X 20' crew lounge which was much better than the versions that got the upgrade and so not only lost rec space but had the joy of hot racking because of the extra crew. Frankly I thought the ship's MASSIVE office complex that took up most of the starboard side (and a fair bit of the port side) should have been removed, but the navy loves their paper work. If you had the towed array (most of us didn't) then you lost the aft battle dress station. Variable pitch propeller was admittedly cool as when you slam that thing into reverse while at top speed the whole ship bucks like it is going to tear itself apart, but it had the unfortunate characteristic of perpetually leaking oil getting the ships fined every time the EPA decided to inspect. The Mk 32 had to be manually loaded with old school block and tackle that took a lot of time to haul up and set up before you could slowly drag one torpedo at a time out of the mag, lever it onto the hoist, crank it into position and then ram it home with three people pushing on it. Each tube is in a different position so you have to reset the position of the "hoist" for each torpedo you want to load. The torpedoes can not be trained out or fired with loading gear in place so it all has to be broken down and stowed below deck. In effect you get six shots then spend half a day reloading, but OMG did we carry a giant store of those f*ing torpedoes. In reality those torpedoes are designed to be dropped directly on top of a subs position by a helicopter and mounting them on a ship is largely pointless. The Mk 13 was the Hood Ornament because that thing required two weeks of work for the gunners to get it working and broke down after firing once - no idea why, may just have been an us problem. The 76mm "intermittent fire" cannon jammed a lot although (from what the gunners told me) it's because the ammo was garbage and not the gun itself - same problem with the CWIS. Weapon system not mentioned 8 Browning M2 50cal machine gun mounts which we ended up using a fair bit, I was a loader/gunner on one of the mounts, PiTA as they were stored in the forward small arms locker and had to be hauled up a whole bunch of ladders, usually at 5AM so they would be ready when the sun came up. "Hull Cracking", lol , in truth the overloaded hull had periodic hull splits making dealing with flooding so routine I just started ignoring calls of flooding unless it happened to be in or near a compartment I was responsible for. I credit the amount of experience crews had with fixing routine problems for the class reputation for survivability.
Fantastic and fascinating breakdown of an OHP's pros and cons. Thank you and salute to your Naval service.
I served on the Australian OHPs and they were very well liked by us. The upgrades Australia did towards the end of their lives (8 cell vls forward of the Mk 13 launcher, SM 2 missiles replacing SM 1, upgrading the combat data system....) probably should have been done by the USN on the younger OHPs and then replace them with actual warships.
I was an STG on FFG-36 USS Underwood from 93-96. I have to agree with the above. They were a cheap means to show the flag in various places. My favorite assignments were Grenada so we could provide a detachment to march in their independence day parade. Also we were sent to South Africa. I suspect our CO being African American was a factor.
The 76mm mentioned was a rapid firing auto cannon mostly firing proximity fused AAA shells. It could do a mediocre version of shore bombardment in a pinch.
@@whelk The 76mm gun was pretty good for what they were meant for i.e. last ditch AA and dealing with pirates and illegal fishing ships.
Great insight, thanks
I remember the USS Stark incident well. First off, I really question the fact that the Mirage C-5 radar mistakes a FFG for a tanker. Second, The Stark says they tried to communicate with the jet, which did not respond. So, a business jet, armed with missiles (asm), an unprovoked attack on what was thought to be a tanker, but, what was, in actuality, a warship tasked with keeping the sea lanes open), and finally, the fact that the falcon was out of normal lanes, and never responded. It sounds to me like an act of war, all the way around. You cannot help but understand why many Americans had NO issue with thoughts like "Let's turn the whole damn area into a glass ash tray".
As for the Stark- I was on shore duty, and one of those fellas did turn up in my office on payday. All of his clothes were lost in the fire, and while he had gotten some civilian replacement clothes, he still had his boondockers. Have you ever seen the bottom of MELTED BOONDOCKERS??? I have. It's almost impossible to understand how hot that deck plate must have been! I don't know if the Perry class was that well designed, but, for my money? Those fellas on the Stark were the best damn firefighters in the world that day, and for a long, long time to come!
Honestly, I've always found misidentification pretty plausible. You are talking about 1980's technology. And specifically, the technology level that France was willing to *export* in the 1980's, not necessarily the 100% best technology that France could build. The Mirage F1 was originally built in the 1960's, the radar was probably an updated model designed in the 70's. So it's not like there was a supercomputer doing fully automated target ID with a neural net. And the radar is being operated by Iraqi personnel who don't have a ton of training with this -- it's a one-off airplane with no trainer variant to practice with, etc. Iraq did have Mirage planes with the same radar, but not many. Most of their air force was Soviet hardware. So the people looking at analog displays making a judgement call didn't have insane levels of experience and expertise with the equipment. IF they were told they'd find tankers, there would be a ton of confirmation bias at play when they detected a blip.
The American radar tech of the day on the ship was way better than what was on that airplane, and it never even noticed the missiles incoming. So it's not like our radar was infallible in those days either. In 1988, a Ticonderoga class cruiser with brand new phased array radar and Aegis combat system screwed up and shot down an Iranian airliner it thought was a warplane. The Tico was basically crazy sci fi Futuretech compared to what Iraq had access to in 1987. Screwups happen.
@@guaposneeze I would think classification would be based on things like esm rather than a radar return in that era
JM: The Mirage radar had no capablity to identify or classify ships. That is purely a judgement call by the plane's crew. As to calling the plane on Guard frequency (121.5) civilian planes are not 'required" to monitor that frequency, so there is no evidence they were hearing it. In the end. the Stark CIC and Bridge officers were lax in not reacting more quickly to protect the ship. They had become accustomed to seeing this plane fly this profile for days/weeks. There was no intel/evidence the Iraquis were intentionally attacking a US ship. They intended to attack an Iranian tanker as they had before. (old TAO and TACCO).
@@guaposneeze the shooting down of the Iranian airliner by the USS Vincennes occurred while the ship was in a harassment gunfight with Iranian multiple surface vessels. The CO, who had been labeled a loose cannon by the other COs in the gulf at the time, usurpted the tactical action officer out of his seat. The TAO is there to conduct the ships weapon systems. There Is a good reason not to have the co issuing engagement orders directly. If the co makes a mistake who tells him no, you're wrong sir? By having a trained SWO sitting as TAO, there is an added level of safety because the co then acts as a safety officer for the engagement.
In the case of the Vincennes the COS act of pushing aside his tactical action officer is arguably at the root cause of the downing of the civilian airliner. The co being too close to the problem and issuing direct orders to fire made a mistake. The truth is he transposed to track numbers in his head. First he asked is track 1110 descending? The answer he got was yes. However the Iranian airliner was actually 1011 and it was not descending. Seeing an f-14 ew signature in the middle of a gun battle and what he thought was a descending flight profile, the CO gave the order to shoot. If the Tao had been in the seat giving the orders there would have been a chance to correct this mistake.
Now remember the Iranians are just to blame here going out and getting into a gun battle with Naval warships can be a dangerous thing, and now they realize what sort of unintended consequences can occur.
@@bigjake2061 There was a software bug that played a major role in the Vincennes incident
My BSA Troop was adopted by the OHP when she was stationed at Philadelphia Naval Yard. We got a good tour of the ship and they even fed us Sloppy Joes for lunch, and gave us a tour of the Kitty Hawk while she was there.
Back then, civil aircraft transponders didn’t give aircraft type. Only squawk code (Mode A) and altitude (Mode C). These days ADS-B (Mode S) does report more info, but then if they did know aircraft type it must have been reported by another ATC unit or the aircraft its self.
Good vid 👍 Impressive how well the OHP faired
Mine was FFG 29. Some sailors called them " tuna boats" because of their size. They were awful in the rough Atlantic, forcing the additions of fins amid ship on hull. I had a friend off the USS Stark, he was decorated for bravery, but he was never the same. The Perry's are great for pickets and ASW. I agree with the other comment, instead of mothballing and selling to 3rd world, update for modern warfare.
Great presentation, so detailed in fact, that I learned something I didn't know about; I never knew they replaced those Detroit diesel generators in the 2000s. As I was an Engineman, working on those Detroit engines daily, stationed on USS McInerney ( FFG-8) from 90-92, it's a little bittersweet for me to hear that. Those engines were incredible in size, sound, and power. I was told they made almost 3000 horsepower, and I could definitely believe it, as they were not only a 2 stroke engine (meaning every downstroke was a "power" stroke), but they were turbocharged AND supercharged. They really wanted the air going in those things to be under some pressure, owing to the fact that they had no intake valves, but intake ports at the bottom of the cylinders. Everything about them seemed huge (and oh so loud---earplugs AND earmuffs for hearing protection when they were running) as well. 16 cylinders (in fact, 2 V-8s bolted together), 156 GALLON oil capacity, and the fact that the OHP's were equipped with 4 of them, each bolted to a 1000 kilowatt generator, it's just nothing like what the average person sees in the civilian world.
As a crewman on the "lead production ship" of the class, I was informed shortly after I came on board that the McInerney was used as a test platform for all the planned upgrades for the class in its early life, which would likely explain why there were no other "long hull" ships built until the USS Boone (FFG-28). However, I had also heard that the Boone, as well as the USS Stephen W. Groves (FFG-29), the USS John L. Hall (FFG-32), and USS Jarrett (FFG-33) were actually built as short hulls and then retrofitted as long hulls at some point early in their service lives, though I have no evidence to back up such a claim. It does make some sense though, as it would take a few years to complete the testing, and as the McInerney was commissioned in 1979, it WOULD take until the time the others I mentioned to be commissioned (in '82 and '83) to begin to be implemented in the rest of the class.
A few other tidbits......the official speed rating says 29 knots, but I'm pretty sure all OHP's could do 32 knots, like the "Mighty Mac". Also, from a dead stop, to full flank speed, 43 seconds, just WOW. We even had an incident in the Gulf during Desert Storm where all they did was to go from 18 knots forward to a dead stop, not reverse, and when the controllable pitch propeller kicked back to 0 pitch, it was like somebody stomped on the brakes......I didn't know a ship could do that. The propeller shaft only turns in one direction, and never above about 180 rpm......all that acceleration and deceleration came from the changing of the propeller blade pitch, it was pretty remarkable. Oh, and because of only having one shaft, at high speeds, the ship had a noticeable tilt (or list, as it's called) to the left.
Also, for some reason, I've never seen any sources that talk about the fin stabilizers that dramatically improved the ships' seaworthiness......they were gyroscopically controlled, hydraulically operated fins installed just forward of midships on either side, underwater of course, that counteracted the force of a roll to either side by adjusting the angle of the fin. Definitely helped a lot.
Sorry for the novel, but I love talking about my old ship......and it's nice to know she's still out there, after all these years, having been sold to Pakistan in 2010. They may not be our ally, but, they are technically not our enemy either, so, rather than having my ship be scrapped or sunk, as has happened to a fair number of the OHP class ships, it somehow makes me feel good that she's still getting some use.
USS Hawes (FFG-53) shot down an Exocet on our Atlantic transit to Desert Storm
& the Sonar Gang, with a single exception ;), were the smartest bunch of effers I've ever met.
Sir, are you that exception?
Good value those Ollie Hazard Perry class frigates.
I served on FFG-49 back in the 90’s. This was great and really brought back the memories.
Ahh..the unsinkable OHP's, operated with them many times in the Atlantic, Med and in the persian gulf! Ex-Sprucan Sailor here! - USS Peterson DD-969. And yes, we have another reunion coming next spring 2022 in Montgomery AL. Looking forward to visiting/touring Pascagoula Shipyards. Will be a first visit for me! Missed plank owning crew by 6mos. :(. no regerts, heard stories.
Austin Powers: "Danger is my middle name."
Oliver Perry: "Hazard is my middle name."
One of the best parts about the OHPs was they were able to do all the miscellaneous tasks so the cruiser and DDG fleet could be left for carrier and amphibious task groups, now that the USN has no FFGs the Arleigh Burke’s are heavily over worked doing all the small and major jobs for the USN and the LCS are garbage that cannot do basic escort duties ( or anything really )
The acquisition of the Modified FREMM frigates for the FFGX programs is probably the best decision the USN has made in over 30 years
-ex Oliver Hazard Perry sailor
USS Aubrey Fitch FFG-34 Apr 85 - Apr 88 SC-02 Division Radio Central. We deployed 3 times in 3 years, 85 a 90 day deployment to Central America, based out of NS Rodman Panama, transited the Panama Canal and the Equator that year. January 86 participated in the Space Shuttle Challenger Search and Rescue operation, was one of the first ships to arrive, awarded the US Coast Guard Unit Commendation with Operational Device, MEF 3-86 June - Dec 86 Persian Gulf six month deployment, Straits of Gibraltar, Suez Canal transit, Gulf of Aden, Straits of Hormuz, 1987- Baltops, crossed the Arctic Circle. What a great ship and crew!
Please do the MEKO 200 series there are like 5 different varieties in multiple navies
Very useful and capable little ships.
Super cool! But OHP are still main warship in my Polish Navy :D Its sad that is so old that land in your brief :P
I just want to say I really liked this warship brief, I hope you do more in the future. It would be interesting to see some more capable ASW ships covered in the future.
Phenomenal brief!!! I'd love to see more warship briefs in the future, especially one on the Type 23 Frigate. I've heard it's a formidable anti-submarine platform and I'd love to hear your take on it, its use, and its recent upgrades.
Cheers!!
I dont wanna put words in his mouth, but iirc he has mentioned it in passing a few times and has praised it. The terms he was describing it in made it sound like one of the very best frigates for that mission
@@Chironex_Fleckeri That's correct. Everything about the T23 was designed from the outset around the ASW mission. Apart from the very advanced sonar system, it has lots of silencing features you normally don't find on surface ships and a very quiet electric drive system.
There is surprisingly not much complexity in equipping vessels for anti-submarine warfare. It always boils down to upgrading sonar (buoys included) and yeeting explosives at targets, either from ship or helicopters (that can also help with spotting). Like many other naval weapons, they are becoming increasingly replaced with missiles, sadly.
Thank you, much appreciated. The Polish frigate ORP Gen. T. Kosciuszko is in Rotterdam this weekend. I'm going to take a look and your ship brief will help me understand what I see.
Sounds great!
There was a slight design flaw in the FFG Class that was found later, which was that in heavy seas, the torsion from the ship’s yawing formed a crack in the superstructure at the STIR radar room. We had two feet of water sloshing back & forth in that radar compartment while transitioning the North Sea. NAVSEA solved the issue by welding a two foot strap on all the FFGs at that point in the superstructure.
Served two tours FFG-47 NICHOLAS, and FFG-39 DOYLE. I can confirm this. Had the stateroom starboard side just forward of the wardroom. Hit some weather doing SNIFL exercises off west coast of Scotland, the twisting tore an 8' crack at the Aluminum/Steel weld where the superstructure met the deck outside my stateroom. Cheng and I spent the next several weeks of the underway w varying degrees of constant flooding in our room even after some temp welding repairs. They repaired the tear, but no $ to rip out the carpet and such until IH shut us down due to blackmold growing everywhere. Fun times...
Such a good brief. As an airdale, I was only exposed to a small part of this info. The auxiliary maneuvering engines were new to me.
We need to bring these back. My family serviced the shell plate and shafts as civilians. Hull #8 was sold to Pakistan and I was the last American diver to work on it at Mayport.
It was a great day to realize how great it is to be an American. There is a story about this ship hitting the dock at Atlantic Marine now BAE shipyard.
The best thing of the FFG7 was the main deck's amidships passageway. That sucker was so wide that it looked like the center hallway in a suburban mall!!!
Very convenient for rolling torpedoes down in their carts when bringing the to or from the heloes.
Australia had 6. 4 short hulls built in the US. 2 long hull built in AU. 3 short hulls were also upgraded to long hulls I believe.
Our Ship, USS Vella Gulf CG-72, sailed with the USS Stark when it returned to the Persian Gulf after repairs.
Love the Brief, I was on USS-Sampson DDG-10 , we were scheduled for deployment in Dec 1986 , USS Stark was to leave in july 1986 , when she lit of her turbins, smoke came out of one of her stacks, followed by a tug that pushed her back to the pier. We left 72hrs later for the Persian Gulf, fate would have it that we would not get hit by the missle and she did, i knew 3 men on her that died, a very sad day for sure. Can you do a brief of the Adams class destroyers, i wounder if we would of survived .
Served on USS Halyburton as OPs. Lost an SH-60b in the Persian Gulf. Later, I was in charge of MVs Hunter and Stryker doing mechanical mine-sweeping ops leading supertankers from straits to Kuwait City. (I had helped establish the rigging for these supply boats to drag bitches, hogs, and otters while assigned as duty officer on a Sunday at COMINEWARCOM, Charleston Naval Base aiding the folks at the mine sweeper squadron as an advisor. Had no idea I would be in command of these "interim solution" minesweepers. When I was had only disgruntled sailors (some awaiting discharge and NJP back stateside.) oh and they had only broken binocs.
Nice thing about the turbine on the Perry's was the fact that the Coast Guard introduced the concept on their 378s in 1967 , and the Navy on there city class gunboats .
Served on the USS Gary (FFG-51) for five years. I'd like to add a few notes: The 21 kt speed was with one turbine running. If both where lit off it could make 32 kts (on a good day). Time 15:13--Top left picture is of the CIC equipment room (directly below CIC on the main deck). You can see the three CIC computers which integrated data from the ship's sensors (RADAR, SONAR, etc) for display on the consoles in CIC. The middle picture is in the SONAR equipment room which is way down, low in the bow under the waterline, and the last picture is in COM (radio central) which is aft of CIC on the 01 level. You should also have mentioned that the Stark was operating under peacetime conditions--the crew was not expecting to be attacked in any way. The screw was reversable also--no reverser gearing installed, we'd just go into reverse pitch. I believe it was the Samuel B. Roberts that used its APUs to get back to Bahrain. The Stark's propulsion plant was not damaged (except for control systems from the bridge). The crew of the Roberts used towing cables to stitch the hull back together. The SH-60s carried torpedoes and could also carry anti-ship missiles.
Interesting to learn about. I was a SH-60B electrician and did 3 cruises on Frigates between 2003 and 2006. When ever we were in port with one of our sister Dets they would come over from cruisers and destroyers to show them how bad they could have it lol Specifically it was the hangers they were pointing out.Those hangers are just giant ovens in heat. Did have fun running from a typhoon off the coast of Japan. Walking on walls and had a day where we were confined to rack. Interestingly aircraft 110 you have pictured I did all 3 cruises with. Not sure if it’s the same buno number, but caught my eye.
"Halt, stay where you are, do not attempt to submerge or you will be fired upon."
" Captain, I think he means to board us."
Australia ended up lengthening first 4 ships (there are pics with the back end cut off being extended) final two being built in Australia at long spec
During my time in the Navy and before Persian Gulf these ships were the butt of jokes. "Pre-expended Bin ship (read expendable), sink it with a .50 cal gun, not capable, give to Naval Reserve, Helen Keller sonar, the missiles, SM-1, didn't have adequate range. It was very tough on the crew as the complement was based on at sea operation so when in port they were usually in three section duty and sometimes in port and starboard duty. It did change opinions after the Stark and Roberts survived their attacks.
I'd love to see the Knox and Spruance as well. The new FFX can take a great many lessons from this class.
Knox, Knox baby!!!
You forgot to mention the Praire-Masker system on the class. I was under the impression it greatly reduced blade and flow noise off the ASW platform to such an extent that when conducting training operations against NATO subs, they switched it off to reduce the risk of collisions. I've always heard that the Perry class were a cast-iron bitch to detect by subs. Soviet naval records released since the end of the Cold War indicate the Soviet subs couldn't hear them at all when the system was active.
Oh those halcyon days when we could design our own ships that worked.
I got invited onto the USS Ruben James in the 90's and I remember thinking what a piece of tech... this brief sums it up perfectly
Sounds like the complete inverse of the F-35.
One fact about that project 60, it came up with a small-ship, big-ship idea. The small ship was meant to be cost effective and limited in scope to supplement the large ship,
which was designed to be very capable. This lead to the OHP, and the Spruance-class.
About that Phalanx on the stark, I did some reading around, found some navy investigation documents claimed the Phalanx was actually not operational and they lied about it so they could go on deployment. Had they not done that, they wouldn't have been able to deploy to the gulf. Would be interesting to see how it would have dealt with those Exocets.
The Mk38s I think replaced some of the 50mm Brownings used for close range. Pretty capable system, especially the remove controlled ones.
I know of those variable pitch props, I was on another ship with those. I just thought they were effective speed controls or for changing into reverse fast without having "shift gears". I never knew if could throw off sonar like that. Also, I did watch some OHPs maneuver themselves and effectively have a 0 degree turning circle. Looked really cool watching them doing that. Never saw a picture of those things till now.
I think the Mk.54 was an attempt to build a torp which could operate at littoral environments, which the Mk 46 and Mk 50 couldn't do. I think the Mk 46 got some improvements to handle better in those brown water areas, but I'm not sure how effective it was. It is also a good balance like you said. It's also kinda funny about how that Mk. 50 got a special engine to work at those lower depths the Alfa and Papa could reach, but was stupid expensive between that and it's homing system.
The OTO-Melara gun also came with some Anti-air rounds also and was intended to act as a close-range anti-missile or anti-aircraft gun. It's actually rather ubiquitous. The thing is, I don't know how the US chose to arm it's 76mm, if they used Melara's ammo or their own. When I researching this gun, there were talks about "Americanizing" the system, but some magazines seem to indicate it did have some VT-Frag ammo capability. I think the AP rounds came later, not sure if she got those either, seemed like a later development.
The hull cracking was due to it having that hybrid aluminum superstructure and steel hull. Going through high seas would cause cracking going through some rough seas.
Also, the OHPs would receive an upgrade to get jamming capability. Originally, they only had the SLQ-32(v)1 which could see some radar frequencies related to weapons, but after the Stark incident, part of the investigation concluded that the (v)1 wasn't effective enough and would get a "Sidekick" jamming module2, being designated at SLQ-32(v)5.
Oh yea, I remember those old OBAs, which I was on Cushing we had those. Heaver and awkward since it was worn on your stomach front instead of that tank in the back wish SCBAs.
The Adelaides also got a new FCS, new radar, sonar, extended the flight decks to accept larger ASW helos and made that Mk 13 launcher fire SM-2s. That last one isn't too far fetched since the SM-1 and SM-2 aren't that different size wise. Actually, that training missile pictured I believe is an SM-2, think I saw that picture before. That modification was stupid expensive, and wound up selling some not very long after that program completed. I do have to admit, those VLS cells are a clever upgrade.
I really think that OHP was onto something: Cheap, reliable, durable.
If only the USA would have stuck with that concept, we wouldn't have all the countries developing 15 different designs for prohibitive amount of money!
Well done I was on the USS Curts FFG 38 Boatswains Mate was part of the Missouri battle group. I remember when the Stark we had a lot of training
The electric isopod axillary drivesare a really sweet drive for these Perrys. If I owned a super yacht, I want a pair of these as my main drives
The Auxiliary Propulsion Units were very handy in Feb 1996 when the rudder fell off the Reuben James (FFG-57) in the Arabian Sea. With no rudder, a single screw ship will sail in a big circle. The thrusters allowed us to make a few knots headway while waiting for a tug to tow us to Bahrain.
I served as OS1 aboard the USS Vandegrift FFG-48. I was ships AIC and later the ATACO which is the controller for the Lamps MK III platform. Fully integrated into the ships CIC including all key flight data, radar, ESM, and sonar buoy data is all relayed directly to our CIC shipboard. That said, you might have missed a couple key elements and capabilities. Well done.
With srews like that you can also drive backwards without changeing into a reverse gear ! Some ships with srews like that don t even have a reverse grear!
I was on board the SBR when we hit the mine we did not, I repeat did not, wrap cables around the hull. The Operations Specialists myself include were assigned a "crack watch" to measure the superstructure crack every 15 minutes to see if it got wider. The Senior Chief Bosun Mate Jack Frost (real name) brought two towing cables up to the 02 Level and asked us to attach them to anything hard and heavy that we could find on both sides of the crack. Myself and another First Class Operations Specialist flaked out the cables. We put one around each of the GTM access hatches (these were used to remove the LM 2500s in case of a failure) and the other end to lifting points on the gun itself. We were under no illusion that these would prevent the ship from breaking in two if the seas got any larger than they were. Please correct this.
Woohoo! More briefs!
This was just excellent! Please make more surface ship briefs. I'd love ones on the Udaloy and the Slava classes.
Aaron, These are very interesting pieces 👍. Have you ever considered broadening your channel line-up? I envision Surface Brief, Weapons Systems Brief, Military Aircraft Brief, and AI Drone Brief. Your content is always engaging …… enough detail to be fascinating but not so much where it would be boring. I consider your content to be like an AV Janes. Keep up the great content. 🤗
The book No Higher Honor is a great read about the mine hit on the Samuel B. Roberts.
Scott sabre contour system brings back memories...
Very instructional...Everything I knew about the PERRYs was from Tom Clancy novels, so I had always believed they were just K-Mart warships built just to be cheap...
Thanks for putting this up. The OHP is one of my favorites.
Ahhh I haven't heard the term "Spru-cans" in years. Takes me back :) Also, with those LM2500 engines, it ALWAYS sounded like a jet was flying nearby. Took days before you stopped reflexively looking up to see it haha.
The best sound in the world was standing on the flight deck and hearing the LM2500 spooling up to head home after a month of putting around the Caribbean at4 kts.
Thank you for the info...👍👍
Good brief Aaron. Really enjoyed it. Thanks for your time and effort into putting these together.
We have about 8 OHP frigates that could be brought back from mothballs and refurbished. We should do so. Perhaps update them a bit. Plan to use them for just a few years while waiting on Constellation class deliveries.
Then transfer them immediately to allies as new frigates come in. Top priority candidate countries should be Taiwan, Romania, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.
loved hearing about the class and the 2 that got hit and made it back to port by there own power.
Interesting brief. I started watching it, then at 3:37 hear a reference to CIC as the "Command and Control". My years on FFGs (and other ships) I recall CIC actually being the "Combat Information Center". I might watch the rest later.
if you like verbal flub you are going to love this channel. my videos are full of them. asshole.
Really enjoyed this one, love the blend of design and history. Thumbs up!
USS Samuel B. Roberts (FFG-58) "Sammy-B", NO HIGHER HONOR 🇺🇸 ⚓
In Spain we have six of them (Santa María Class, as they are known here) wich are at the end of his operative life and are going to be replaced by the new F110 class frigates.
Great!
Great Video. Would be happy to see more of this kind.
This is what I wanted. Thank you Aaron!
A couple of issues I have with your brief from a former EW. The SPS- 49 is a low freq long range 2D (bearing/range) early warning radar. Also the SLQ-32 antennas are port and stbd of the MK-92 CAS antenna right behind the pilot house.
That is serious cracking!
If memory serves the "azipod" auxiliary propulsion can even run off the backup deisel generator, which means technically a Perry could be moving even before the turbine finishes warming up. Not quickly, but underway.
There's still room for low tier frigs in the US Navy, mainly for ASW duty.
The U.S.S. Stark radioed our Swan 51 sailing from the Panama Canal to Florida. Our course took us close past her stbd. side as she had her helicopter up and was just easing along in the exact middle of the Caribbean Sea. She looks like a Frig. should look like, big, beautiful and mean.
I really enjoyed your overview of the OHP. I look forward to your brief on the Spruance class destroyers, I spent time on Spruance, Kinkaid and Caron.
Fascinating!
What I don't understand is the goalkeeper system that we developed for export is it's a much better system much longer range etc shoots the same round as the a10 gun may be more expensive but it's cheaper than replacement ships
Re the 76mm Mk 75, the first 80 rounds are in the ready magazine. There are another 440 rounds available. Also, typo on the LAMPS page - ought to be SH-60B vice SH-60F.
Served on the USS Clark FFG-11
I really enjoyed that brief. Having steamed with those, I learned a lot even now! BZ!
This thing sounds much better than the Littorals
Variable pitch is great also if you loose and engine, just like am airplane you can feather a prop if you lose propulsion on the shaft
They're definitely a hard ship to sink.
I've seen video of a SINKEX involving a OHP and she took a hell of a beating without sinking.
I know they are welded up to stop them sinking immediately, (from one I was involved in with a hulk), but it really was completely bent out of shape but still remained afloat.
I seem to remember some kind of problems caused by the aluminium uppers reacting with the steel hull.
great brief, been waiting for a good video on the OHP
Always think it was Mirage, but bussnes Jet, lol
they still use the lm-2500 in ships today..one of GE's most successful designs ever.
Yeah, Stark looks alot like a tanker, I'd definitely make that mistake......
I was stationed on FFG-10 Uss Duncan 1987-1991
i've been several times in that ship. sinked in exercise few years back unfortunately
I so miss the sub games you used to play! Now a days you're videos only cover dark times in modern times!
Love it!
Yes please do more surface ships! It was great!
The LAMPS slide incorrectly refers to a SH-60F. The SH-60F "Ocean Hawk" was operated by HS squadrons deployed on aircraft carriers. The photo is of the correct SH-60B Seahawk that was operated by HSL squadrons from FFGs, DDs, DDGs, CGs.
A bit of insider knowledge about the RAST system. The vast majority of our Seahawk landings were "Free Deck" landings, where the helicopter lowered its probe and then we just manually landed into the ship's "trap". We very rarely used the cables to conduct "Rast Assisted" landings, because it took longer and was a pain. While a RA landing had a slightly higher sea state limit, it took longer and was riskier. It required two brave deck crew to run out onto a pitching and rolling deck with a hook and grounding wire. They braved the wind and rotor wash of the helo and would clip the grounding wire to a pad eye and then use the hook to catch the blowing messenger cable from the helicopter. (The grounded hook was to prevent them from getting shocked by static electricity in the messenger cable.) Once they hooked the messenger cable they would grab it and connect it to the ship's heavier RA cable. The helo would then pull up the RA cable, though the RA cable would often disconnect from the messenger cable while it was being hauled up , requiring the deck crew to run back onto the deck to get the cable re-attached. Once the RA cable was hauled up and locked into the helo's probe, the LSO could easily pull the the helo into the trap. However, we had spent a bunch of extra time hovering over a moving deck. It was much quicker to just perform a Free Deck landing, and if we missed the trap, we'd just lift back up, reposition, and land again. Much faster and no risk to deck crew. On a humorous note, I often watched new deck crew catch the blowing messenger cable with their grounding hook and then move toward the RA cable laid out on the deck only to find they couldn't quite reach. You could see them pull on the messenger cable as if they thought they could pull the helo over to reach the RA cable!
Very Good 10/10
Very interesting! Thanks :)
I wonder how hard it would be to get the OHP class frigates in for refit to use an Mk 41 VLS mount versus the single arm system
Beautiful hull with a Velveeta box on it. When one had one helo aboard we could carry supplies for humanitarian ops, boat people, narcos with a Coast Guard LE team or a Canadian drone.
I was an AE on a one bird det. We had a gym on the starboard hanger, along with extra parts and the narco detainees.
AAW reload didn't really matter we could only shoot at 2 air targets at once.
Im sure you know Aaron but for people who dont or incase you dont, the CIWS is often left in that "safe" mode which is actually more of a manual mode where the operator has to make the decision to engauge or not. They do that because of a couple incidents where the CIWS shot down friendly aircraft. It does not have a typical IFF system where friendly aircraft will have a special radio tuned to a special number that changes all the time to tell anti air and radar stations that they are friendly. It relies on radar and some very complicated math that is way over my head and I dont understand one bit. Something to do with figureing out if whatever is flying by is going to or currently flying towards it. Like i said it's actually super interesting but way over my head. Cant quite wrap my head around how it works but there are some really good videos here on youtube about it.
Awesome video, would be really great to see one on the Type 23 Frigate of the RN