My father, being Hungarian, saw the 1st SA85M back in late 1985 at Turner's Sporting Goods store in Culver City, California for $339.99 and he just had to have it. When the 90's came around, we found more of them but in the post ban dumbhole configuration sadly. They were about $219.99 but still included a decent sling and a 5 round magazine but you can see in the box that it was meant to include 3 30 rd magazines, a cleaning kit and sling. Trying to find a pre-ban SA85m, they hit almost $2000! Since the expiration of the AWB,I have converted those thumbholes back to preban glory thanks to AK63F parts kits. Great looking rifles no matter what. Great video.
Both my parents were Hungarian. They came to USA after the 1956 revolution. Not sure how my dad got out but my mom had help escaping across the border into Austria. She was only 16 years old.
@VegasCyclingFreak You know you have Hungarian citizenship, right? You just need to apply. It allows you to stay in the EU as long as you want and live and work also.
They might not be tactical but thumbhole stocks just look cool to me. They modernize the silhouette of older rifles and, topped with an optic, give off an irresistible DMR vibe.
I had a thumb hole stocked Arsenal, and it was painful to shoot for me. The thumbhole slammed into my web of my hand. Of course, I was shooting a lot at a time, so there’s that.
I'm irrationally in love with the VSS for many reasons but the stock is number one. 9x39 integrally suppressed? Sick. Kalashnikov inspired platform? Getting harder. That stock? I came 5 minutes ago. The SVAL is arguably the better gun but it doesn't have that stock.
Ian!! We all love you over here at SARCO, thank you for ordering a few items, I myself am a lover of French rifles, if you ever need any parts or anything just give us a call! And ask for the french rifle guy lol.
If I had to guess it's more the baggage they carry than their actual look. I imagine most just dislike them because of how their forced onto regulated guns, and therefore view non thumbhole configurations as being better
For me, it was more about how the government is dictating which product I am allowed to have and how it should look. For me, in my early 20's back in the 90's and seeing the dumbhole stock, it was a lesson in how our government works.
Today, I don't mind the thumbhole stock sporters. At the time, in my early 20s, they were definitely not cool. As soon as you could find a surplus AKM stock set, the thumbhole stock disappeared. In 2004, everyone began having the muzzles threaded & replacing the gas blocks to get an original with bayonet lug. Seems the desire to make the ban rifles into preban configuration has died down some.
I’ve got one of these that I put an original stock and grip on. The fit and finish on these are so much nicer than what the Romanians and Chinese offered. It also feels lighter than my SAR1 and shoots better as well.
The SA-85S has got to be a very interesting firearm with an odd-looking stock that helps it stand out from other Hungarian AK variants. Thanks for showing it to us Ian.
I got an NHM-90 in that era and the thumb hole stock was so bad I spent a week with files, then sandpaper and formed it to my hand grip in the evenings. Stained all the wood arctic blue
Had one of these. It was beautiful, but I wanted a Scope on it, and I wanted a JP Performance Muzzle Brake on it. It was threaded and then dead pinned. It was smooth but loud. The existing after market Scope mount was a project of trepidation, as there was some rule about any additional hole in the receivers. It got done. Still was a beautiful example, and shot nicely.
Headstamp Publishing is well on its way to becoming a serious powerhouse in our rather extensive community of firearms interested readers here in the English speaking world. It's rather fun to watch happen, as an old school fan of Forgotten Weapons and Ian's work generally.
Honestly it's pretty sweet looking I wouldn't mind it something different looking on what is a very well known rifle
9 місяців тому+9
In a recent video (I believe it was on the 'Classic firearms' channel) Ian mentioned that he was approached by officials from an unnamed country if he wanted to make some new videos using their stuff. I am beginning to suspect that the unnamed country was my home, Hungary. This is the 4th, 5th or I don't know video of Hungarian guns in the past week or two. So glad to see some of my people's history on the channel!
Well he is also trying to promote the book as well, Ian has said whenever he goes somewhere he films a slew of videos and releases them periodically. He learned this from the bergman series where we had like 9 days of the same family of gun,
Norinco reconfigured the stock with a thumb hole, renamed it a MAK-90 when the first assault weapons ban went into effect. They shipped in a couple of million before the ATF figured out what Norinco did and added it to the ban. I enjoy mine.
Unfortunately, if I use "É" in the title it doesn't show up when people search for "FEG", and that's what almost everyone in the English-speak world would use.
@@ForgottenWeapons that seems like a pretty big oversight on google's part, considering that in normal google search it literally doesn't give a fuck so long as you use similar characters in english, it knows exactly what you meant with all the right spelling (because it asks you "did you mean ******?") every time I ask it anything in another language that uses some form of Latin alphabet. They could easily impart that same functionality onto youtube's search algorithm but they haven't. I bet you that you could even use normal google search to search youtube for it that way and it would work properly! The fact that youtube does not do it natively is a shame.
I got a mak90 with a ban-era black polymer stock that looks similar to a dragunov stock (not quite exact, but pretty close) with an inch thick rubber extension on it and it's COMFY. I was gonna change it after I bought it but opted not to since it's more comfortable than anything else I could put on it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it
At 4:21 you say "...they couldn't have a thumbhole stock..." but I think you meant to say "...they couldn't have a pistol grip stock..." The advent of the thumbhole stocks was a ploy to get around the ban on pistol grip stocks.
I've always wondered why some semi auto AK variants have safety stops that prevent the safety from entering a traditional semi auto setting. Essentially turning the full auto notch to a semi auto notch when others just don't have a stop for full auto and allow the safety to fully rotate.
I owned one when they first came out here during the early AWB years. I traded it off, and it's one of my great regrets of those years. Yes, the stock was a bit goofy, but it was a good rifle.
The 1994 law didn't ban receivers that take standard 30rd mags. It was a 1997 e.o. by President Billy Clinton that banned standard mag receivers. CAI and others had to modify imports to accept standard AK mags. Later Madi and SAR-1/2s are a good example.
Your description of the legal situation is wrong, Kalashnikovs were banned by name in 1994, but what happened is that in 1998 ATF changed the legal definition of something importable under 925(d)(3) to ban semi-auto rifles that used large capacity military magazines. Ergo the SA2000. Not sure that KBI actually did stop importing the SA-85 until then, because ATF didn't consider sporterized guns to be "copies or duplicates" of banned guns and certainly other companies imported them with double-stack magazines up until 1998. And thumbhole stocks weren't the only way to do it, the PSG-1 and SG550 Sniper for example were legal to import up until 1998.
My only problem with the stock is it's a bit lumpy and not as streamlined as it could be, and it's a touch darker than the fore-end furniture. Personally I dig the style though
I LIKE that stock! It looks funky, but i like it. Expecting US politicians to pass any laws on firearms is like asking a kindergarten glue eater to write a guide to a balanced diet. Neither one knows anything at all about the subject matter, and will just go with the feels.
Ian - my 1st "AK" was a Clinton ban-era Norinco Mak-90. Unfortunately, the thumb hole stock on it looked awful (unlike this Hungarian one) and was terrible to shoot with.
their op-rod doesn't have a little bendy part in the middle. I'm not an AK guy by any stretch, but I've field stripped one or two in my life and always thought that was a neat feature. Why don't these ones have that?
What happened to all those Brady Ban era AR’s? All those missing the bayonet lug, threads, collapsible stocks, etc. Did everyone that had one just convert it after it expired? Seems like a whole category of forgotten weapons.
I still have mine. I have changed the trigger and added a flash suppressor. Other than that it’s the same rifle I purchased back then. I have the ten round magazine it came with and show it to young folks who don’t remember the first ban. I also have a Glock magazine still in the plastic marked “pre law.” I regard both as historical exhibits.
Get your copy of "Rifles On The Danube" today - only 2 days left!
www.kickstarter.com/projects/headstamp/rifles-on-the-danube?ref=71lkji
Hey forgotten weapons have you noticed that the AK-47 is the best gun in the world🌎🌍 it was made by a guy named Kyle Kalashnikov inventor of the AK-47
I like this gun but it's very nice 😎👌
My father, being Hungarian, saw the 1st SA85M back in late 1985 at Turner's Sporting Goods store in Culver City, California for $339.99 and he just had to have it.
When the 90's came around, we found more of them but in the post ban dumbhole configuration sadly. They were about $219.99 but still included a decent sling and a 5 round magazine but you can see in the box that it was meant to include 3 30 rd magazines, a cleaning kit and sling. Trying to find a pre-ban SA85m, they hit almost $2000!
Since the expiration of the AWB,I have converted those thumbholes back to preban glory thanks to AK63F parts kits.
Great looking rifles no matter what. Great video.
I live right next to culver city!
aha
$120 off for the ban, wow! And all you had to do was to switch out to pre ban parts and it's all there
Both my parents were Hungarian. They came to USA after the 1956 revolution. Not sure how my dad got out but my mom had help escaping across the border into Austria. She was only 16 years old.
@VegasCyclingFreak You know you have Hungarian citizenship, right? You just need to apply. It allows you to stay in the EU as long as you want and live and work also.
They might not be tactical but thumbhole stocks just look cool to me. They modernize the silhouette of older rifles and, topped with an optic, give off an irresistible DMR vibe.
This specific stock is actually VERY comfortable to shoulder, despite the grip being very thick
I want Ian to review an ADAR 2-15 from Tarkov lol
Looks like hunting rifle lol
I had a thumb hole stocked Arsenal, and it was painful to shoot for me. The thumbhole slammed into my web of my hand. Of course, I was shooting a lot at a time, so there’s that.
I'm irrationally in love with the VSS for many reasons but the stock is number one. 9x39 integrally suppressed? Sick. Kalashnikov inspired platform? Getting harder. That stock? I came 5 minutes ago.
The SVAL is arguably the better gun but it doesn't have that stock.
Something about that wooden stock/grip setup is so aesthetically pleasing.
The funny thing is that when these started coming in folks HATED it! I was selling during the Brady ban, things were ridiculous
Very Norinco
A little bit of embellishment on the stock/handguards, like factory-punk or soviet-punk would look rad as hell.
Like Cosmo Kramer once said "it's the wood that makes it good!"
And illegal in Kommiefornia.. **sigh**
Aaah Wood and steel like its supposed to be
Ian!! We all love you over here at SARCO, thank you for ordering a few items, I myself am a lover of French rifles, if you ever need any parts or anything just give us a call! And ask for the french rifle guy lol.
No idea why the thumbhole stock is considered ugly. Looks great IMO.
I love it
was thinking the same thing
If I had to guess it's more the baggage they carry than their actual look. I imagine most just dislike them because of how their forced onto regulated guns, and therefore view non thumbhole configurations as being better
For me, it was more about how the government is dictating which product I am allowed to have and how it should look. For me, in my early 20's back in the 90's and seeing the dumbhole stock, it was a lesson in how our government works.
Today, I don't mind the thumbhole stock sporters. At the time, in my early 20s, they were definitely not cool. As soon as you could find a surplus AKM stock set, the thumbhole stock disappeared.
In 2004, everyone began having the muzzles threaded & replacing the gas blocks to get an original with bayonet lug.
Seems the desire to make the ban rifles into preban configuration has died down some.
My first AK was a thumbhole from Arsenal, then I got one of these, blast from the past!
I’ve got one of these that I put an original stock and grip on. The fit and finish on these are so much nicer than what the Romanians and Chinese offered. It also feels lighter than my SAR1 and shoots better as well.
The SA-85S has got to be a very interesting firearm with an odd-looking stock that helps it stand out from other Hungarian AK variants. Thanks for showing it to us Ian.
Still have one of these, now with Magpul furniture. Surprisingly accurate little rifle.
I got an NHM-90 in that era and the thumb hole stock was so bad I spent a week with files, then sandpaper and formed it to my hand grip in the evenings. Stained all the wood arctic blue
Had one of these. It was beautiful, but I wanted a Scope on it, and I wanted a JP Performance Muzzle Brake on it. It was threaded and then dead pinned.
It was smooth but loud. The existing after market Scope mount was a project of trepidation, as there was some rule about any additional hole in the receivers. It got done. Still was a beautiful example, and shot nicely.
Headstamp Publishing is well on its way to becoming a serious powerhouse in our rather extensive community of firearms interested readers here in the English speaking world. It's rather fun to watch happen, as an old school fan of Forgotten Weapons and Ian's work generally.
I have one of these with the classical furniture. 82' production, still factory packed when i bought it.
Wow, a gun I have. Got mine in '95. I love the stock. Fashioned a red dot mount over the gas tube, and installed an adjustable trigger. Sweet
Mah little Hungarian heart is melting for all the Hungarian AK variants on show lately :D
I bought one of these in the 90's. Terrible trigger slap and about twice the group size of my Norinco MAK90. The wood was beautiful though.
Honestly it's pretty sweet looking I wouldn't mind it something different looking on what is a very well known rifle
In a recent video (I believe it was on the 'Classic firearms' channel) Ian mentioned that he was approached by officials from an unnamed country if he wanted to make some new videos using their stuff. I am beginning to suspect that the unnamed country was my home, Hungary. This is the 4th, 5th or I don't know video of Hungarian guns in the past week or two.
So glad to see some of my people's history on the channel!
Well he is also trying to promote the book as well, Ian has said whenever he goes somewhere he films a slew of videos and releases them periodically. He learned this from the bergman series where we had like 9 days of the same family of gun,
If only you posted this a week earlier I could have used this for my country presentation for Hungary in school
Norinco reconfigured the stock with a thumb hole, renamed it a MAK-90 when the first assault weapons ban went into effect. They shipped in a couple of million before the ATF figured out what Norinco did and added it to the ban. I enjoy mine.
thumbhole stocks like that are going to become cool. nostalgia and retro vibes become valuable
It’s so good to see a ton of FÉG (Fegyver és Gépgyár) guns here and never ever seeing one here in Hungary. (Please edit the title to FÉG)
Unfortunately, if I use "É" in the title it doesn't show up when people search for "FEG", and that's what almost everyone in the English-speak world would use.
@@ForgottenWeapons Yeah, real shame.
Bojler eladó.
@@ForgottenWeapons that seems like a pretty big oversight on google's part, considering that in normal google search it literally doesn't give a fuck so long as you use similar characters in english, it knows exactly what you meant with all the right spelling (because it asks you "did you mean ******?") every time I ask it anything in another language that uses some form of Latin alphabet. They could easily impart that same functionality onto youtube's search algorithm but they haven't. I bet you that you could even use normal google search to search youtube for it that way and it would work properly! The fact that youtube does not do it natively is a shame.
I'm just glad we are getting the bonus section on the AMP grenades.
Owned one for years...great accurate rifle. The recoil felt really manageable too.
My first firearm bought in ‘95 and still sitting right here in the safe
That is a beauty of an AK. Thank you IAN for another history lesson on an iconic rifle.
Back in the 1990s, we absolutely loathed the thumbhole stocks. Now... they aren't so bad.
If people back then thought those stocks were hideous, Id love to show them one of the CA compliant AK/AR stocks.
I got a mak90 with a ban-era black polymer stock that looks similar to a dragunov stock (not quite exact, but pretty close) with an inch thick rubber extension on it and it's COMFY. I was gonna change it after I bought it but opted not to since it's more comfortable than anything else I could put on it.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it
That bayonet plug restriction seems strange. Here's a gun, it shoots bullets, but you can't put a knife into it, someone might get hurt?
At 4:21 you say "...they couldn't have a thumbhole stock..." but I think you meant to say "...they couldn't have a pistol grip stock..." The advent of the thumbhole stocks was a ploy to get around the ban on pistol grip stocks.
I've always wondered why some semi auto AK variants have safety stops that prevent the safety from entering a traditional semi auto setting. Essentially turning the full auto notch to a semi auto notch when others just don't have a stop for full auto and allow the safety to fully rotate.
Thank you for this information. I have a Kassnar FEG SA-85 m underfolder with bayonet. No box unfortunately. I will have to find that book.
KBI also brought in most of the FEG hipower variants during that same time period. Some of which they sold under the Charles Daly brand.
I have this model, and can confirm that the thumbhole stock is very comfortable to shoot with.
I owned one when they first came out here during the early AWB years. I traded it off, and it's one of my great regrets of those years. Yes, the stock was a bit goofy, but it was a good rifle.
I could see somebody today making new mags for the 2000s with a short single stack leading to a double stack mag
I like thumbhole stocks, they're aesthetically pleasing and that's a moral imperative
We converted a Romanian 99.1 to accept standard double stack magazines. Worked out great.
Dear Gun Jesus… Mr. Brandon Herrera’s AK50 reaction video please and a formal history and mechanics episode on the AK50 too.
I Second this
Ian doing a dissasembly video on the AK 50 would probably benefit both him and Brandon, its a cool idea
is Brandon getting phone calls from a certain mid European country ( backdoor of dourse?
Elbonian ceremonial sidearm?
My dad has one of these, it still has the optic dust-cover it came with
I used to be able to pick those up for $275 brand new in Butler Georgia for many years. They must’ve bought 50 of those things.
So, slight error, but the F in the AK-63F stands for Fa tus, or wooden stock. The under folder was the AK-63D for deszant or paratrooper.
I actually really like the stock and grip on this.
Wow, good job! You inspire me!
I remember the 2000. I was trying to remember who did the single stack ak the other day and couldn't think of it to save my life
Another Great Video Ian 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
My buddy has one of those. The Monte Carlo stock is on a shelf in his garage covered in dust.
I'm not sure what it was supposed to accomplish.
I'm currently in the process of converting my mak90 got a galil style stock and just and pistol grip for now
The 1994 law didn't ban receivers that take standard 30rd mags. It was a 1997 e.o. by President Billy Clinton that banned standard mag receivers. CAI and others had to modify imports to accept standard AK mags. Later Madi and SAR-1/2s are a good example.
1998.
I thought Mak 90 was the only ones who did the thumb hole stock. Learn something new everyday.
Everyone got in on it. I've had thumbhole AKs from Bulgaria, China, Egypt, Hungary, Russia & Romania.
@@donwyoming1936Thanks Old Bill for that.
I actually like the way the stock looks.
I get the impression looking at AK disasembly close-ups that an AK and a Last Ditch AK would be indistinguishable from each other.
I also have a SA2000M.
It is of same high quality AK made by FEG.
Your description of the legal situation is wrong, Kalashnikovs were banned by name in 1994, but what happened is that in 1998 ATF changed the legal definition of something importable under 925(d)(3) to ban semi-auto rifles that used large capacity military magazines. Ergo the SA2000. Not sure that KBI actually did stop importing the SA-85 until then, because ATF didn't consider sporterized guns to be "copies or duplicates" of banned guns and certainly other companies imported them with double-stack magazines up until 1998. And thumbhole stocks weren't the only way to do it, the PSG-1 and SG550 Sniper for example were legal to import up until 1998.
That is one gorgeous rifle! Thanks as always Ian.
I had one of these in the mid-90s.
That is actually a really nicely made stock, very clean.
Alright this AK has some of that drip.
My only problem with the stock is it's a bit lumpy and not as streamlined as it could be, and it's a touch darker than the fore-end furniture. Personally I dig the style though
My FEG Hi Power was imported by KBI. I wonder if it was at the same time.
I have handeled one and I found the stock is very comfortable. Much better than the Bulgarian SA 93's.
Some crazy firearms regulations in the US, but at least you can own military style (or any gun), in your country.
Since you are doing alot of AKs atm how about a little video about the AK50 ? xD
I LIKE that stock! It looks funky, but i like it.
Expecting US politicians to pass any laws on firearms is like asking a kindergarten glue eater to write a guide to a balanced diet. Neither one knows anything at all about the subject matter, and will just go with the feels.
Ian - my 1st "AK" was a Clinton ban-era Norinco Mak-90. Unfortunately, the thumb hole stock on it looked awful (unlike this Hungarian one) and was terrible to shoot with.
"Young whipper snappers" lmfao
Fricking early gang reporting for duty
Reporting for duty!
Where are the rest?
Reporting!
O7
Willco
I like the stock, I hate the wood not matching the handguard.
their op-rod doesn't have a little bendy part in the middle. I'm not an AK guy by any stretch, but I've field stripped one or two in my life and always thought that was a neat feature. Why don't these ones have that?
Some of your older videos are marked as private now. The ones I was really interested in were the World War II British ration series
Sorry - those are no longer under my control, and Karl at InRange has hidden them out of pettiness.
I actually like that style of stock for AKs for the looks.
Reminds me of Arnie's thumb-hole stock AK from Commando
Oh that’s right!! He did have one.
Ian I’ve watched your videos for awhile did u ever say what your favorite all time firearm is?
Please do a video of the Intrac II, queen of trigger slap!
Ducking the pistol grip ban...so THAT'S where the thumbholes came in. THEY were later banned as a marker of 'paramilitary' guns.
Thanks enjoyed , I remember those from way back then. Goofy looking rifle.
the Ban is now "Retro Cool".. lol
I'm old... 😂
As hideous as you think that Hungarian stock may be, it has much more style and elegance than the thumbhole chunk of lumber on my Norinco MAK-90.
Can you review the ACR?
I feel like the Hungarian Tokagypt or Hi-Power handguns might make an interesting video, on the topic of Hungarian firearms.
Holy shit thats one unique rifle
Is it ok to unskrew those from wood?? Won't the holes get wider and stop holding the screw properly?
I remember seeing theese at gun shows when I was a child.
I wonder how many took off the thumb hole stock and put on a proper grip and stock?
My dad had one of these because it was the only one he was allowed to buy post stupid assault weapons ban
i dont know.... i like that stock, its looks cool.
Some things just don't change.
Thumbhole stocks are almost cool looking. I feel like they just need a little more work and they'd look alright.
You and Jonathan need to sync your content drops. Just I like being spoiled by twice the content at the same time 😊
Wasn't this model used in the movie commando or was that an RPK?
I really dig those thumbhole stocks. Yeah they look horrible but cool af at the same time.
What happened to all those Brady Ban era AR’s? All those missing the bayonet lug, threads, collapsible stocks, etc. Did everyone that had one just convert it after it expired?
Seems like a whole category of forgotten weapons.
I still have mine. I have changed the trigger and added a flash suppressor. Other than that it’s the same rifle I purchased back then. I have the ten round magazine it came with and show it to young folks who don’t remember the first ban. I also have a Glock magazine still in the plastic marked “pre law.” I regard both as historical exhibits.
epic gun and Commando movie with it!
As a left handed norinco MAK 90 this is a much nicer ban stock
Anyone else getting serious eye-pull from the pistol right behind Ian’s head?
I like that stock!
I definitely don't miss those goofy stocks
They are niche and highly sought after these days. People like to rebuild the ban era models for nostalgia
@@Anon-greyman back in the day we used to throw them out and put proper ones on them from parts kits. Funny how things change.
@@alexholdren4009 the underfolder is my personal favorite