What happens if you supersize a dagger?
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- Опубліковано 8 лис 2023
- I love making historical reproductions of historical weapons, but sometimes I have to change small details of size or proportion to keep my customers happy.
This film looks at historical grip sizes and reproduction grip sizes and does that using a new discovery to illustrate my points- the Scottish Swirk; a massively oversized Scottish dagger that is the same size as a sword.
Actually I made the Swirk up, but it still looks great.
For budget medieval replicas of fantastic accuracy and value todcutler.com
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Well it appears that the Swirk is an unexpected hit - shall I introduce it as a Tod Cutler sword?. Thoughts?
Yes
that ain’t a swirk - it’s a swagger!
yes yes yes
Yes!
@@Messihippi Swagger it is!
Wait… so you just made that beautiful sword JUST to be a talking point about grip size? You are crazy and I respect that 😂
😂
more like historical accuracy vs functionality vs customer specifications vs I MADE A SWIRK FOR THE HECK OF IT AND IT IS AWESOMMMME
Yes I did and it was a fun project and one that has been on my mind for years, but I can always sell it eventually; so not so crazy
I would buy one for sure
you can say he wanted to win a grip measuring contest
I swear half of my weapons from DND campaigns are just going be items Tod has made
I immediately thought of DnD when I saw that folding spear he made. Seems very fitting for an adventurer, you can carry it in a back scabbard and just unfold it when you need a weapon with reach.
Lol
This!
Odd, over... half my weapons are items I needed and then I found Tod because I wanted to know if someone made them. We are total opposites you and I.
I see a dagger that does 1D8 base damage. I don't think the rules would allow for a dual wield.
Great point about hand to height proportion. Another aspect to consider is that anyone who was a farm hand or general tradesman would have large muscular hands.
Good point - hadn't thought of that
@@tods_workshop Probably because it's not a valid observation.
Their grip strength would have also been greater than most folks today.. could explain the slightly smaller grips, they didn’t need as much purchase area to get the same grip
@@cnm757 fingers do become slightly beefier and thicker with even moderate regular use, even though fingers do not have any muscle. Hands do very much become wider when flexed due to muscles present in the palm on both sides.
@cnm757 I gained about an inch on my fist width in my mid 20s from doing carpentry for 3 years. I don’t see the point in your comment other than trolling.
I would love to see Matt Easton try out your Swirk for practicality and how it wields👍😅 (And it looks beautiful!)
He likes it
@@tods_workshop That is a good sign😁👍
The way you analyze and consider historical pieces to inform your beautiful designs is such an inspiring process. Reimagining the aesthetics of the past in steel. So cool.
Thank You
@@tods_workshopYeah I agree. I have something that is basically exactly like what's spoke of in this video as far as handle and blade size. It has the experts all puzzled so far tho.
I think it's a WW1 trench spike knife of some sort. It's very old. But massive at well over 18 inches and about 2lbs. It has a square full tapered heavy blade, with 4 fullers, a heavy but short bronze handle.
It can be used as a club too as it's so darn heavy.
I put a video of it on my channel. If you have a moment I think you'll find it as wild as the others I've asked about it too. I'd love to hear you tell me what it is and maybe even make a version to sell. It's so unique I think folks would by tons of them. All who see it so they want it anyways lol. I bought it as it was the most sinister design I've ever seen before.
Anyways let me know what ya think if ya can please. Thanks
This supersized dirk is one of the best piece I've seen in your forge/workshop - I am enamoured with its style
I know I am now extremely tempted to custom order on 😅
Same here - but the revenue is not following the heart sadly@@wisconsinkraut3445
@@wisconsinkraut3445If I had spare money lying around I'd be right behind you, it's just so sexy >
Imagine the size of balls on that if it would have been aan bollock dagger.
Ironlily has one of those
I have a Tod's Blolock Dagger and the Bone 'coffin' handled Bowie (to name a few things I have). A family member said the handles are too small! So I showed them how to actually grip the bollocks, this is soooo Matt Easton, then I showed them how to use the 'coffin top' on the Bowie (where you grip with the little finger closed over the top or the thumb curled over the top. There was a look of confusion mixed with understanding between how it 'looks nice' and how it should be used. I went on to explain how a messer works. They only popped in for a cupper. Back in the late 1980s we had huge issues finding the correct items, so we ended up making our own, and the likes of Bodger, John Buttifint and myself (I am in incognito here) came into the world of historic reproductions. It is so lovely to see Tod et al taking up this and moving it on to great things like this; I am so chuffed with our (historic reproduction) grandchildren!
Blimey it was Bodger, Buttifint and the third guy (you?) whose name is on the tip of my tongue but I can't place it and those three were my absolute inspiration. Damn I am annoyed, because it is usually John Buttifints' name I forget
Will Hutt! But actually I am 'child' not grandchild. I knew Bodger quite well, but the other guys had left the field just before I arrived, but also as a 55 year old, I had to learn so much from scratch, but now with the internet and of course YT there are so many 'grandchildren' of you three and I look around at the sheer quality of work by relative youngsters and am amazed.
This is awesome, I do a lot of research into Irish weaponry and read somewhere that their Skean daggers could have blades up to 21 inches, so seeing a "swirk" is kinda like seeing an example of what I read about
Dirks can get up to 17"
I feel you've missed the opportunity to make a two handed one and call it a Twerk. Great content as always.
a swerk with a 2 metre long blade called a zwerk
Capwell made a point about his English armor that is similar to this and stuck with me: The closer they made things to the originals, the less troubleshooting they had to do. I found this to be quite true and quote it every time I'm helping someone with a kit!
Wonderful creation. Also, it's strange how much to my eyes at least it evokes an almost ancient Celtic aesthetic as an iron age longsword
Something like that. My mind went to a Roman Spatha.
I think messers are a neat example of this, the same basic concept goes from a working knife, to a hunting or self-defense shortsword, up to a longsword or even a greatsword. They've all got a nagel and a riveted wooden grip and one edge, but the ratios change as the length and use changes. But also, on a completely unrelated note, I wonder if the Swirk isn't a decent example for what Sting would have looked like, a giant's knife or a hobbit's sword.
I would like to see how well the Swirk handles. Maybe have Matt test it on the next weird weapons video?
And (in my opinion) it looks fantastic, would consider buying if i was in the market for another straight single edge sword.
The "Swirk" makes me think of the old seax. Feels like a very similar concept!
It is exacts a seax.
This was my first thought as well. :)
Your Swirk might visually be my favorite sword now. It is like a giant butter knife!
It will cut more than butter!
you need a big sandwich to use that butter knife :) Can be used to help guests at your BBQ when they want their meat cut as well..
"I shall spread yee across the field like the butter on my toast sir!"
That's one hell of an object to make JUST for demonstration purposes. I really admire your commitment. Any chance someone like Matt can get their hands on that swirk just to test it? I'd love to find out how effective it is as a sword.
I will have a word
Functionally very similar to some iron age Celtic swords funnily enough, the hilt especially.
Would make for a cool set.
I was taking a look at my TodCuttler daggers and came to the following observations: With TC15 (twisted grip rondel), I could have the handle about 1 cm shorter easily, without wearing gloves. Putting on sturdy leather gloves, the handle space is needed and it locks in your hand well. Looks that Tod got that one close to historical. My ColdSteel training rondel, which has about the same length as Tod's dagger, has a handle that leaves me with almost 2 cm space between the rondels, even with gloves on. Tod's studded bollock dagger TC31seems to fall more into "make it for the taste of the modern buyer". Even with a handshake grip type of gripping, putting the thumb "between the balls" for aligning the blade (that sounds very kinky, lol), there is still a bit of hilt left on the bottom. Overall the grip could be shorter. (it gets more absurd with a blunt sword I own, which as a single handed arming sword has a grip that easily could accommodate two hands)
this is so cool and amusing. Now I kinda want to see a whole series of medieval knives scaled-up to sword length.
Same. "Bollocksword" would be glorious.
On the topic of sword daggers, you should make a video on the actual dagger shaped swords that were used in the 14th and 15th century, the comically large basilards and roundels i see in art have always interested me, and I know they existed because there's a surviving basilard sword and these depictions in art are detailed enough that they dont give room for it to be written off as a mistake
Also I apologize since I cant find the museum links since the ones I bookmarked in the past are dead now, but i know that there was a baselard dagger with a 65cm blade
I mean, scaling up knives to usable sword proportions actually could make for really cool fantasy swords.
Aren't all swords just scaled up knives or daggers?
Okay I'll bite.@@MrBottlecapBill makes me want to watch the video again since I finished with the idea that scaling up was complicated and you can't just scale stuff up. Basically, when you double the blade length, you cannot double the hilt, pommel, and guard dimensions. So, no! swords are not just scaled up knives or daggers. Todd explains this at length in a video I saw recently.
Now all I can imagine is US Cavalry in the civil war with saber sized bowie knives
Please make a series of Lord of the Rings swords in your own interpretation. That dirksword makes me want a Tod version of King Theoden’s sword.
I've seen a few dirks and although they were all dirks the handle length did vary. One them had a 14" blade and a 6" handle, biggest blade I have seen was 20" with a handle of 4". This led me to believe that in reality, the original dirk makers made their weapons to the customers requirements or what was seen as best fit. It is a modern construct that tries to standardise everything into set patterns, but they were not a standard item when being individually made. I would love to see you walk / run with your oversized dirk in your sock 😂😂
If you run into the problem with balance (dagger toppling over) when sheathed, instead of trying to change the dimensions of parts of the dagger, wouldn't it be easier to just give the sheath a counter weight at the tip?
The only question is if the people of the era are willing to invest in that
This actually reminds me of the "estoque de Boabdil", a sword that belonged to the last Sultan of Al Andalus. It's almost just a scalled up ear dagger. The concept is quite réminiscent of this video.
Great lesson on the proportions and requirements of knives, dirks and swords in addition to the need to make them look "right and beautiful"
That giant dirk is giving me some bronze age/iron age vibes.
The Todd saga "A fistful of daggers" "A few Rondels more" "Big Swirk on his hip" etc
Tod, a simple solution is to put a brass tip to the end of the scabbard to make it bottom heavy, so it stays upright.
I do, but it depends how unbalanced it is. I have in fact been selecting chapes and testing balance on some shorter blades today
The whole thing actually reminds me of an Iron age Celtic style sword actually. Was that intentional, or just a happy coincidence? Either way it looks quite neat! :)
Yes, a celtic equivalent to germanc langseax. I find it odd that there are no mentions of something like that, at least I didn't
I had exact same thoughts. It looks like mishmash of Roman, Celtic and Nordic/Germanic late antiquity or early medieval sword, it really messes with your brain. Fantastic piece of work.
You are the best Tod. What a beautiful subject and what a awesome way to illustrate your point.
I love the authenticity of your replications
TBH, if I had the kind of money such a piece would command, I'd be all-in on a "swirk."
Well regardless of the off proportions and historical inaccuracies of it the sword is a gorgeous work of art and I love the design.
Excellent work and I totally want one!
You could put a little lead in the sheath to keep it balanced.
Looking at it and the responses (and my own gut reaction), if you add this to your catalogue, it's going to sell so so well. It's bloody gorgeous❤❤❤
I love how people assume that medieval folks were like Ewoks or Hobbits 😂😂😂 Bruh, it's only a couple hundred years ago 😅
Thanks once again for a very informative and creative Chat, Todd 🙏💪
Poorer diet back in the day with more carbohydrates and less fats and protein. Japan had a similar generational change starting in the 1960's when better diet from childhood made the average height shoot up. Between WW 2 and today the average Japanese height has gone up 10 cm (about 4 inches).
@@silverjohn6037 another thing is less Fish and more meat like beef in diet
I think it's probably because people are very bad at telling the difference in height between humans, someone half your size normally means someone who's height comes up to below your chin, even though that's about 6% difference. Even the tallest person ever, you would have to have dwarfism to be half his height and quite a number of people with dwarfism would be taller than half his height. As he was 8ft 11 and people with dwarfism can be up to 4ft 10.
@@silverjohn6037Yeah but people owning a lot of swords wouldn't. the medieval knights where probably around our height so back in those times one could perhaps spot a noble by height alone
@@silverjohn6037Evidence indicates that the European Late Middle Ages diet had a higher proportion of animal protein than most modern diets, and there was lots of beans and legumes from the High Middle Ages onwards. While higher rates of carbohydrates and less protein has certainly occurred in Europe (eg the West Anatolian Neolithic farmers), this largely does not include the Middle Ages.
I wonder how large a viking-era sword would be if you scaled it up to be a 'desirable' modern hilt size. Great video, Tod.
This is such a great way to tie so many deep ideas together. Philosophy, usability, and aesthetics, neatly forged into one beautiful object. Thanks for the thought-provoking video.
That is in fact a knife a fine one too, very nice explanation, I hope to someday have a well made dirk, and a formal kilt, we'll see if that happens
Tod: "I need to make a point about grip size and proportions."
also Tod: "I need to make a giant knife to make that point."
Swirk looks like amalgam of several late antiquity and early medieval swords. I love it.
The "Double-Dirk" you're describing sounds like a knife for giants. Beautiful work with the Swirk. I love seeing your historical work, and the way you adjust it for a modern market, but I also love seeing something new in sword design. Especially when that new thing is built on the old foundations, and has a fidelity to the principals of design they engender. Always cool to see a new contribution to the landscape. Thanks for sharing.
Missed opportunity to call it a swagger
I think you will find it is in fact a Swirk, part of the sub categories of Swaggers along with Wollock daggers, Wear daggers, Swagen, Swondles etc Although to be fair some rondels are right up there anyway
You are right though - I missed that one
So when you making a giant sword size Bollock Dagger? Gotta win the measuring contest XD.
I'll name it Betty, because Sword + Bollock = Swollok. And what else could a Swollock be called other than Betty? Looking forward to seeing some Betty Swollocks on the channel XP.
Great video Tod, really enjoyed it! Cheers mate 👍
I hope you keep making videos like this, so that one day you'll have educated enough of an audience to want more historically accurate proportioned weapons.
100% agree with this!
That was a really interesting video.
And that swirk is really nice.
Another great video Tod!!!
I enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up
It looks surprizing like a Viking style sword. Its almost like there is a form/function thing going on. What a marvelous looking piece.
Tod please stop making me want things I never knew I needed again and again
This sword should really be featured in Highlander Remake!
I am on for that
That swirk looks to me like a late bronze age or early iron age sword built with an 18th century aesthetic. Very cool and I can imagine it being wielded by the main character in a fantasy movie or game.
I have one of the quillon daggers and a ballock dagger and they are both fantastic.
Thanks
I heard Scottish dirks got up to 20 inches in blade length. Yours seems more akin to some Irish skeans.
I cannot help drooling over the lovely falcion you made as the example piece for this vid. Wow!
Thank you for taking us on a trip through your brain. It was entertaining. It was interesting. I almost understood half of it. Time to watch the video again.
You are awesome, man. Well done.
Great Video as always ❤
That " Swirk" is soooo cool! I wish i had the funds to buy it.
That swirk is maybe one of the coolest things I've seen! Even for my relatively large hands that guilt like a bit large actually. But man oh man I want a tod cutler version!
Awesome Blade! Like the look a lot!
That Swirk is actually a realy nice Sword. I am actually Impressed that it didn´t excist.
Also that book you have there seems to be loved through!
Great point, and lovely way to make your point. But also... This is a spectacularly cool sword. Tod making fantasy weapons inspired by other, related historical weapons is a cool niche and I'm sure you can sell it.
It's a variation of the cube/square thing: Doubling the dimensions of a 2D object increase the area by 4 and for a 3D object increases the volume (& weight) by 8. That's why size increase doesn't play nice with balance and structural integrity.
Should be obvious I know, but many people seem oblivious to it.
I love the Blade design. For me, extend the Hilt to a hand and a half so you could use 2 hands if you want, and modify it to add at least some bit of cross-guard protection. That'd probably be my dream sword. That blade though, perfect looking- no idea how useful it is but I love it anyway!
Great content as usual! Any chance you could include more content from the prosess of making the items without revealing to many secrets? :D keep it up please!
I think you forget that the originals were made by craftsmen with the same fundamental problem, they needed to sell their wares. Functionality is part of a customer's consideration, and if back in the day it was the larger part of it functional elements would have been more prominent. If you could pull one of those craftsmen out of time, I don't think they'd give you grief for changing things to suit the current market.
Thanks for the explanation, I did not understand beforehand
Nailed it in one, "there are so many questions"
Your SwirkS looks like something you would find at the Rohirrim Sir thank you for the posting utterly a great one
I believe their hands were probably bigger. They WORKED. More muscular hands, with thick layers of callusses. Even guys that work now, didn't have the toll of the everyday back then. I know a family that hand milked their herd when they were kids. They all looked like they were wearing baseball gloves all the time. 2 decades after I last saw my friend I ran into his brother. As soon as I saw his hands I said "you must be a (family name)", sure enough he was. The mitts on that family are as recognizable as the Hapsberg chin.
Thanks for the smile and a good point
Tod,
I think you should consider adding a sub-line of ultra-historically correct daggers to your cutler line that matches the original dimensions exactly. While I appreciate your need to make the daggers marketable, I think you might be surprised at how many of us would like to purchase a dagger whose dimensions are identical to the original. As all of us appreciate history (why else would we be here?), it would be awesome to evaluate the tool they actually used, unaltered by modern sensibilities. In any case, keep up the fantastic work. I am taking advantage of your sale and ordering a dirk today. I'll forgive you in advance for the tweeked hilt. 🙂
A difference of 10cm in average height would probably result in average hand width difference of 1-2cm rather than 5-6mm. We can see this in the difference of glove sizes between Asian and European countries where the average height difference is around 10+cm. Gloves sold in Japan are generally 1 size smaller than those sold in the US/Europe which equates to a difference in width of about 1-2cm. That being said, the heights of medieval Europeans were not that much different compared to modern populations. Research conducted on excavated skeletons in 2017 demonstrated that from the 11th and 17th centuries adult British men averaged 172 to 174cm compared to a modern average of 175.9cm. Due to rapid population growth and lack of access to good nutrition, population heights declined in the 18th and 19th centuries before recovering in the 20th century (primarily in the post-WW2 period up until about the 70s/80s). Therefore, it is likely their hand sizes were much the same as ours.
Why do you think a 10 cm height difference would lead to a hand width difference of 1-2 cm? Where I'm from, we usually say that medieval people were around 10 cm shorter (about 180 cm vs. 170 cm for men, and 170 cm vs. 160 for women). That means they were about 5% shorter back then. Assuming height and hand width scale linearly, that would only make their hands about 5 mm narrower at most. And that's not considering that manual labour was more widespread back then, so they might have had comparatively studier/wider hands. I think it's risky to compare modern European vs. Asian sizes, since genetic differences might also affect proportions.
dgmt1 - I have to disagree with your start point. My hand is around 9cm across, so 2cm would be a reduction of over 20% with a height reduction of 5-7%
Is the glove size hand circumference and not width?
If you are 6% smaller than average why would your hand be over 20% smaller? Not to mention the biggest hands I've have seen have been on someone who was 5ft 7 and unsurprisingly a piano player.
Wouldn't the glove size be explained by weight as well as height but especially weight, seen as a 6% difference in height should cause around 6% difference not 20% and if we go for other appendages there is no correlation with height at all and if we go for feet actually their is a smaller than height percentage difference on average, meaning if feet and hands had the same ratio, then it would be less than 6%.
A dirk that can both cut down men *_and_* saw down trees.
Thanks for the video Tod. It's always a treat to watch you.
I think another big reason why daggers were the size that they were is that you just cannot effectively reach around with it from a prolonged arm if the blade was longer. What I mean is that the proportion of blade length to arm length sets the limit to what angles you can hit in close combat.
As a scotsman i love a dirk, very practical, great for everything from preparing food to repelling the english
Cool. Now do an Italian stiletto. I've had so many people tell me a stiletto is just a shrunk down rapier, but if you scale up a stiletto it won't be a rapier.
I love the dirk I got from you. Pure bad ass. The dirk sword (swirk) is just awesome.
By far my favorite youtube channel. Tod had completely changed my view of swords and sword like items. Unfortunately it has made 99% of all modern "reproductions" unacceptable to me because id always look at it and know it's wrong. Saving up to get something tod makes
This is an interesting discussion and I thank you for starting it. I like to draw and I play TTRPGs and write fantasy stuff from time to time. This made me realize that different races, like orcs, elves, and dwarves are all going to have different proportions on their weapons depending on their strength and hand-size relative to the rest of their body. Definitely food for thought.
Tod, I bought one of your daggers (had you sign the blade if you remember that one) , and though the quality of both the weapon and the sheathe were exceptional, I feel that, for practical use, a counterweight in the pommel area would've been better, to put the center of mass within the grip, thus facilitating changing grip.
In regards to having a dagger not hang properly at when in scabbard because of the balance, I'd just add weight to the scabbard.
By the way, where does your leather work come from? If you do your own, can you show us how the scabbards are made?
Reproductions are great, but its also nice to see something thats a bit different and out of left field. Something unique, that isn't a stainless steel ninja wallhanger, but something that actually took some effort. I think I like the idea of sword sized daggers, and now I want to see more haha!
Also, I wanna buy a swirk now. Thanks a lot, Tod, my wallet hates you.
I love short handles. In addition to be quite nice proportionnaly talking, they also have a way to grip them that allow us to have a better feeling of the dagger/sword, and how it was handled.
That's what she said!
@@AlbertaGeek Context
Tod finally did it. Behold, the MESSEST
The drifference between a craftsman and a master is that a craftsman is skilled in making stuff. A master understands why it is made the way it is made.
10:19 I Liked it too! Great work man!
Really interesting episode. But now I would have loved that you also made a real size Dirk with a real size handle to show us the comparison and the original grip.
I think you hit the nail on the head. And thank you for your unwillingness. To be another yellow pencil in the box!
May God bless you. And thank you for your work!
A bollock dagger of that size would be awesome.
Fascinating video. Thanks for the education in dirks.
I've just looked the dirk I bought for myself about six years BT (before Todd).
It is wrong in all the ways you mention, and probably for the same reasons. It has a 12" blade with a 6" handle but you can see that the maker has put some thought into it. They have at least given a nod to getting the proportions right by putting a clear division 3" from the pommel end and making the rest of the handle dagger-like (sort of) in form.
I can hold it by the 3" part of the handle and have dirk with a 14" 'blade'.
As a big fan of the highland dirk I have to say, that Swirk is a thing of absolute beauty! Kinda want to make one myself now!
I look at that swirk, and I see something perfect for one of my characters to own. Gotta run stats up for it now.
Never wanted a "fantasy" sword so much...
I love it! and would love to have one like it!
Todd I’m surprised to not seeing you wear a watch you seem like the type to appreciate a proper mechanical watch or automatic
Todd ... excellent video, thank you ... but how about making a leaf blade bronze age type sword ... I am sure many, including myself, would buy one !
Always enjoy your voice. Cheers.